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In the Crossfire

Is teaching abstinence only the best approach?

(CNN) -- A House of Representatives subcommittee debated this week whether $50 million a year should be spent on sex education programs that teach students abstinence only.

Abstinence education funding, established in the 1996 overhaul of welfare, does not allow talk of any forms of birth control other than to explain their limitations. Congress will decide whether to renew the funding for five years, which the Bush administration is seeking.

Hosts Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala stepped into the "Crossfire" with sex therapist Dr. Ruth Westheimer and Sandy Rios, president of the conservative public policy group Concerned Women for America.

CARLSON: We are back, as usual, with more sex. The issue: teaching abstinence in schools. Is it the best approach? Is it even working? Our guests, sex therapist Dr. Ruth Westheimer and Sandy Rios, president of Concerned Women for America.

BEGALA: Sandy Rios, I want to read you a comment from someone who is not a liberal and not a Democrat. Colin Powell, a man who before he became secretary of state after leaving the military, ran a foundation that cared for troubled youth. Here's what Colin Powell had to say about sex education: "It's important that the whole international community come together, speak candidly about it, forget about taboos, forget about conservative ideas with respect to what you should tell young people about. It's the lives of young people that are put at risk by unsafe sex. And, therefore, protect yourself."

[That was] Colin Powell on MTV ...

WESTHEIMER: I love that man!

BEGALA: ... to America's youth. He was right, wasn't he?

WESTHEIMER: I want to...

BEGALA: I do too, Dr. Ruth. I do too, Dr. Ruth.

RIOS: Colin Powell is very good with the protection that he knows. But when it comes to sex, he is badly misinformed. Safe sex is not possible with condoms. ...

WESTHEIMER: Sandy, don't you say that.

RIOS: I respect Colin Powell, but I have to tell you about this subject. He is very badly uninformed. STDs are growing exponentially. A lot of the kids probably sitting out here are people who have herpes, papillomavirus, many of the things. ...

BEGALA: We have in fact a plastic sheet between us and -- you don't need to worry.

RIOS: But you know what I'm talking about. One out of four of sexually active young people has a sexually transmitted disease, and there is not a cure.

WESTHEIMER: First of all, we are not sure. These are scare techniques. I need to see ...

RIOS: No, it's not. Dr. Ruth, they are ...

WESTHEIMER: ... scientifically validated data.

RIOS: No. I'm sorry. You're wrong about this.

CARLSON: Actually, Dr. Ruth, I think I have that. I have scientifically validated data.

WESTHEIMER: I want you say to those young people to be careful ...

RIOS: Dr. Ruth, in the congressional hearings [Tuesday], all of this evidence was entered. This is not make-believe.

CARLSON: Well, actually, if I could come at you from the point of view of science for a moment, Dr. Ruth. The National Institutes of Health calculated that 15 percent -- that condoms, in addition to being slimy and smelly, also prevent the transmission of 15 percent of AIDS cases. They are not full-proof. Isn't it like telling a smoker to switch to light cigarettes? It doesn't keep you from getting sick.

WESTHEIMER: We are going to have contraceptive failures. We are going to have problems. That's why we need to educate because those students and the ones in high school have to know that this is a fantastic wonderful subject matter to discuss, even on your program. But when to be sexually active, everybody has to decide. And Colin Powell knows that scare techniques, even from World War II, don't work. They just don't. ...

CARLSON: But, Dr. Ruth, I mean, if it's true that condoms don't prevent AIDS, at least in 15 percent of the cases, why is it a scare tactic to tell children that?

RIOS: I want to hear the answer to this.

WESTHEIMER: Because what we need to do is to say more education. We need to say a relationship. Two young people ...

RIOS: I have a question for you.

WESTHEIMER: Wait, I want to finish my sentence. Two young people ...

RIOS: Do you know who was really big on education?

WESTHEIMER: ... have to have a relationship and then to decide if they are going to be sexually active.

RIOS: Dr. Ruth, do you know that human papillomavirus is responsible for 99 percent of cervical cancers? Nearly 4,000 women a year die of cervical cancer, and that's because they get STDs because condoms do not protect from this. This is what's happening. And you call that a scare tactic. I call it wise. I want my daughter to know that. Don't you?

WESTHEIMER: You should tell your daughter to listen to your values. I have no problem with that. But you should not say on a fantastic CNN program that we can now ...

RIOS: No. They can just hear your values on CNN.

WESTHEIMER: Wait, no. I am not saying somebody shouldn't wait. I'm saying that we have to educate, that everybody has to make that decision.