Kasich Says Budget Compromise Is Unlikely

Aired May 12, 1996

WOLF BLITZER, Anchor: Republican Representative John Kasich, chairman of the House Budget Committee, he joins us from Columbus, Ohio. Congressman Kasich, thanks so much for taking some time this weekend.

Rep. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH), Budget Chairman: Thanks, Wolf. I'm glad to be on the show.

BLITZER: Congressman Kasich, you know President Clinton keeps saying there's a 90-day window of opportunity now to achieve a six-year balanced budget, balanced budget by the year 2002, and he's appealing to the Republican leadership to do what the leadership did earlier - sit down and negotiate with him, with Leon Panetta, a deal. Are you prepared to sit down with the White House and resume those negotiations?

KASICH: Wolf, I don't see a lot of reason to do that right now. The problem is, of course, not in the numbers of the balanced budget but it's frankly in the- it really gets down to whether the president trusts Americans to right welfare in their neighborhoods, to be able to have an effective program to take care of the poor and the disabled with local solutions to those local problems; for parents to educate their children without having to call a Washington bureaucrat; and whether we believe that people ought to keep more of their own money rather than letting bureaucrats spend their money.

And, these differences are so fundamental. The president- I mean, I'm not trying to make a political speech here, Wolf, but when it gets down to philosophically- because we essentially want to shift power, money, and influence, out of the city of Washington back to people across the country. And, what it gets down to is the people in Washington and the administration, including the president, trust bureaucracy more than they trust people and they really don't think people at home can get it right. We believe people can.

BLITZER: But you have to admit that when there were these negotiations, when you and Pete Domenici were negotiating with Leon Panetta, both sides did move a lot closer together. There were some major compromises on both sides. If you don't sit down and negotiate, then both sides are simply going to be posturing this year and there will be gridlock going into the negotiations.

KASICH: Well, Wolf, I think you were really essentially watching a different movie than I was watching. We never really got close on any of these fundamental issues.

BLITZER: On the numbers, you did. On the numbers you got close.

KASICH: But the numbers are not really very important. For example, we couldn't even reach agreement in total that a person who is a healthy, able-bodied, between the ages of 18 and 50, ought to work several hours during the week in order to get her food stamps. I mean, we can't even agree on stuff like that, Wolf. And, really, what it comes down to is, we systematically want to get power and influence and money out of the city and put it in the hands of people. They don't trust people. I mean, they think you need to have a federal program to decide whether children are learning.

We don't agree with that, so we're not- we're nowhere close. And if they decide to trust people across the country as much as we do, then I think it would be worthwhile sitting down, but before that, too many differences.

BLITZER: So there's nothing specific you would want to hear right now in the short term that would encourage you to encourage Senator Dole or House Speaker Newt Gingrich to resume these talks with the White House?

KASICH: Well, there, the answer to that is that the president said he wanted real welfare reform that ended the entitlement and transferred the programs back to states and local governments and, ultimately, into the hands of people. If he said that Medicaid programs to the poor and disabled can best be written at the state level to take care of unique state problems; if the president said he was for permanent and real tax cuts for families and to encourage growth; in Medicare, if he stopped talking about cutting Medicare and said that senior citizens ought to have choice for the kind of plan they want, not dictated out of Washington; I'd say, `Let's sit down, we can work it out Let's get it done.'

But, Wolf, this is a fundamental difference between liberal Washington believers and conservatives who believe that the government's power ought to be limited. They frankly do not believe that if we take away federal authority, that people living in local communities can get it right, and we do.

BLITZER: All right. Let's move on, because I hear gridlock in Washington with those preconditions- [unintelligible] -position of the White House.

KASICH: Well, let me say this, Wolf. Look. I personally, as a congressman, a young guy, I don't really care about who gets the credit or any of that other stuff. What I care about is that we get it right here at the end of the 20th century so that the 21st century can be better. And another rotten Washington deal so political commentators can say there's no gridlock is a sell-out. And, I think what you ought to be saying, rather than it's going to be more gridlock, is, `Well, I guess finally people are starting to stand on principle in Washington and I think people want it in everything in their lives.

So, compromise is fine, but, Wolf, I'm sure you teach your children, you can compromise but don't ever compromise your principles, kids. And, that's what my parents taught me, and so we can give and we have given, but I'm not going to give away principles that I think help fix this country.

BLITZER: All right, now, let's get on to a minimum wage. Is the House Republican leadership, at this point, prepared for a separate bill on the minimum wage and a separate bill to repeal the 4.3 cent gasoline tax?

KASICH: Well, Wolf, we're going to have a vote on the minimum wage and there's going to be an amendment offered on the House floor, where we're going to have a vote. There'll be some alternatives, and none of that is yet set in stone. As you know, all factions of our party in the House are all interested in trying to figure out how we can help working Americans have more real wage increases. And, some believe that if you raise the minimum wage, you're actually going to hurt the poorest. Others say, `No, we think we need to do it.' So, we'll work through that and there will be a vote.

In terms of the gas tax-

BLITZER: Let me just ask you on the minimum wage, if there is a straight vote on raising the minimum wage 90 cents over two years, where would you vote on that narrow issue?

KASICH: I don't believe at this point, Wolf, unless I hear some good evidences, I could support that, for the simple reason that I think we're going to hurt the very people who we're most concerned about, and that's why we've put a budget together that'll increase savings and investment and help solve the problem of stagnant wages and guarantee more job security. But a minimum wage- I just had the theater owners in to see me from Ohio and they say, `Look, you raise the minimum wage, we're going to throw kids out of work.'

So, this gets to be a problem but we do need to solve the problem of stagnant wages, Americans being stopped, parents working longer and not getting anywhere. But I don't think government, the heavy-handed government, is going to fix it.

In terms of the gas tax, we are going to repeal this 4.3 cent increase that occurred in '93-

BLITZER: Only temporarily though, right?

KASICH: Yeah, until- well, at least, at this point. And, we're going to pay for it by, one, saving some money on the auctioning of the spectrum; but secondly, we're going to kind of ground Hazel O'Leary's airplane at the Department of Energy and say that we're going to cut Washington spending and Americans are going to get a little bit more back.

Now, some commentators call me and say, `Why are you for doing that?' Well, because any time we can reduce the size of government and any time we can let Americans have more in their pocket, I'm for it, particularly as we down-size Washington spending. And, so, this is going to pass, along with a whole host of other tax relief measures, including the family tax credit for capital gains.

BLITZER: We only have a few minutes left. Let's talk presidential politics for a few minutes. Senator Dole seems to be having some trouble getting his campaign on track. What's the problem as you see it right now? Why is Clinton so much further ahead in the national polls than Dole?

KASICH: Well, I think we've been hurt by those primaries, obviously, where we were attacking one another. But I think it gets down to soul and vision, that Americans want somebody to show them their soul and to paint their vision. I heard Bob Dole speak the other night to Republican women in Washington and I told them the next day, it was one of the best speeches I've heard him deliver. He didn't read it - he was out there giving it from the heart, and if Bob Dole will go out and give it from the heart, surround himself with some young, energetic people who can be a good team with him and project his view and vision into the next century of the power of the individual and less government interference and regulation, I think that Dole will come back. [crosstalk] -it's going to get close.

BLITZER: Speaking about young and energetic young people, what about you? Do you want to be his vice presidential running mate?

KASICH: All I want it to do, Wolf, in Columbus, Ohio, is to stop raining, and in terms of what- look. I'm honored that people have my name in the mix. I'm focusing on a lot of the responsibilities in the House and getting reelected in Columbus, Ohio, and that's the only thing I think about. I've really not really, seriously entertained that notion anymore that the Yankees would call me and put me in center field tonight.

BLITZER: Well, there's some talk about you on that ticket. What about this new job, supposedly that Senator Dole has for you to be as communications guru to help out? Gingrich has spoken about this as well.

KASICH: Well, I don't really know how that's going to work out, Wolf. But, basically, I think what Newt wants me to do is to work with him and the rest of the members in our party to try to communicate that Republicans really do care about people, to get our message out there better so that people understand we love America, we want to raise the power of the individual, we want to preserve opportunity. We want to give people their power back and we need to communicate that better, Wolf, outside of Washington jargon, and take it right to those folks that don't trust the American people, and we're going to work at trying to do that.

BLITZER: You know, there's a lot of the visions in the Republican Party right now, especially on the issue of abortion. Do you think that abortion plank should be changed, modified at all in this platform in '96?

KASICH: Well, I think that, you know, it's kind of just the reverse. Republicans now have been talked to by, both internally- and, you know, Ralph Reed, my friend Ralph Reed, came out and said that he thinks there's some give. And, frankly, there's no big fight inside the Republican Party. The big fight on abortion is from the standpoint of outsiders talking about the fights going on. We'll be fine on this issue.

BLITZER: There's some pretty big-

KASICH: Pardon?

BLITZER: There's some pretty big fights between Pete Wilson and Christie Todd Whitman on the one hand, and Pat Buchanan on the other.

KASICH: Well, but- look. We're on the House floor and when we go to the convention, I mean, we're not sitting around fighting with one another. One of the things we do believe, though, as a party, is rather than just focusing on the issue of abortion, Wolf, I think it's absolutely critical that Republicans begin to talk about very positive things as alternatives, like we passed on the House floor, namely, adoption. But we'll get through the abortion deal and we'll be focusing on trying to help this country be more prosperous in the next century.

BLITZER: All right. Congressman Kasich, we're all out of time. Thanks for joining us from Columbus.

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