Coming from a Muslim family myself...the rules and the way of life are not unfamiliar. Although the difference between rich and poor should be addressed, because its unfair to those are born into a family that slighlty less rich. This sort of thing does not only happen in Saudi Arabia, but right here in america where you can easily find the rich basically having more choices than those that are not. America just does more fleecing than foreign places...and if you are born into a certain situation you wont ever miss the other side until someone presents it to you... As far as committing suicide, well its not only horrible, but a little painful....To know that your only way out is to kill yourself....I think if one were to dig deep enough you will find that woman still sort of run things in a mans world.

Kraig Rasool
Fort Washington Md

For every thing there is an opposite view. I personaly think that woman in Middle East are facing a lot of pressure from inside. Most of the studies are based on sample size. If the sample size is small then the studies will give different output. Having said that If you take every individual woman and analyse their background one way or the another some tragedy would have happened to one of their close family members. Sucide Bombers are not born but created..it is nothing to with Islam or any other religion in the world. Rather preaching Freedom and Democracy I would prefer to give stability in any one's life.

the article is no surprise to me. who could survive, much less thrive, in a society where one is made to feel inferior througout one's life. it saddens me so much that middle eastern women are treated in this way and that many lose hope and take their own lives. only love can overcome hate and this is why the life of women such as benazir bhutto are to be celebrated and remembered.

This is what you get when nations are controlled by religious radicals who are more concerned with continuing their special status in society than looking after the individual.

Cf. the statement: “So far, we are talking about survivors, but if the figures are correct, then we must assume that there are as many, if not more, who actually manage to kill themselves.”


The persons seems to forget that “normally” there are not more but much fewer cases of “successful suicides”. I read data in more than one country, stating that only about 1 out of 12 is “successful” and in the other case the people “failed” to kill themselves.

You can check these data for yourselves.

Lukem@skyinet.net

To add to what LukeM wrote below:
Even though the rate of attempted suicide is much higher for women in countries that I have read about, the rate of completed suicide is still higher for men. In the US, this is because men more commonly use handguns while women tend to use poisons/drugs, which are not as foolproof. I don't think the ratio of women's to men's failed attempts is nearly this large in the west though.

This is an incomplete article without knowing the number of attempts.
Is it 10? 100? 1000?
It makes a difference statistically.
That being said, did you know in that culture that one cannot even make eye contact with women, or shake their hand? They are sad and lonely.

This article deeply saddens me. I can understand why this social problem exists, in a country wherein a woman is not only completely invisible, but devoid of ability to make choices and live a life of her own. Change requires understanding and empathy, but that seems to be clearly lacking in the first place. I have a hard time understanding how people can call themselves "religious", but continue to treat fellow human beings in such a horrendous manner. Perhaps the religious leaders need to be a part of the solution; changing the societal attitudes toward women, and teaching compassion and kindness.

Jan Willis--- (Canada)

Suiside statistics all over the world is showing that women's attemts are more frequently the failed ones, than suisides by men.

If I were a woman living in a totalitarian, oppressive Muslim country like Saudi Arabia, I might want to kill myself too.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years as a child when my father worked there. Women are second class in every aspect of society and lack even the most basic legal rights. It is truly medieval.

I feel that if women are commiting suicide as a cause of forced marriges than it should be stopped...somehow. :P

Being an Army veteran, I have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Although having money sometimes does make a difference, being forced to have a religion that is geared towards the male populace. And you are a female; your life is over before it begins. Example: Afghanistan, I'm walking through a village on patrol by foot, our point of contact who works for the government of Afghanistan is yelling, I ask my interpreter what is he saying? He’s telling the women to go and hide, because women are nothing more than livestock, their purposes is only to bear children, work in the fields, tend to the daily needs of the household, and prepare meals. They’re so busy with their daily chores, that the smaller children are required to take care of their smaller siblings. They are forced to cover their self’s from head to toe! If you’re walking towards any woman on the road, she is required to stop, and face away, as women should not be seen, or heard from. In a society where men can take as many wives, as they can afford, does that sound like a religion, which installs women’s rights?
And let’s talk about the mosque, the most sacred place of their religion, as I spend my time in many villages, that didn’t have the basic life support needs, such as clean drinking water, they were spending all their money, on a new mosque. I have called this, the men’s club, as they do the same thing there; the men do alongside the streets, squat, talk to their male friends, and basically just have a daily meeting of the minds, what is accomplished, nothing.
We built, and when I say we, I mean the United States people, the taxpayers, paid for a teaching center, purpose of the center is to teach young adults, on how to instruct formal classroom instruction, for males and females, three months later after the project was completed, we visited the teaching center, and found that no females were being taught, the head of the minister of education for the province stated, that their society was not ready for teaching women. Which is also in sync with an interview with a headmaster of a high school, when asked a question of the females that attend school, why don’t they go past the sixth grade, he stated that the females need to work in the fields, and tend to the daily chores. If they get educated, who will conduct their work?
As for suicide, it’s a sad choice for anyone, a human being can only take so much pain and suffering, if you lived most your life, and you’re constantly degraded, put down, placed second, and the movie you are watching pretty much sucks, would anybody blame you for walking out early.
I believe that suicide trends are not a status of rich or poor, but it is a trend of mental cruelty to any woman that falls under the religion of the Muslims. The facts speak for themselves, just read the news, and you’ll see all the countries that have the most problems, have a religion, guiding them in the wrong direction.

Hmm. I happen to be a Muslim 19 year-old girl, living in Saudi Arabia, and no, I'm not rich. In all honesty, I have thought once about suicide when I was 16, but never attempted anything. The reason was NOT regarding a "forced marriage", a phrase many Westerners seem to be fond of. The reason was the death of my two cousins -and best friends- in a car wreck. One of whom is a boy and believe it or not, not only did I shake his hand, but I actually hugged him from time to time! Shocking, isn't it? Eh.
Now from what I know, any other person with a beating heart might also think about suicide when he/she loses a loved one, wouldn't they?

People, don't believe everything you read. Especially when it comes to Saudi Arabia. This "poor oppressed women" mantra is bull. I'm so tired of wishing that we get a decent, honest portrayal in the western media.

Mischa.

It is a said thing, that's a fact. It's even sadder when someone is actually contradicting this situation which everyone knows it's real. But the fact that a Saudi woman is the one denying this is over the top for me.
Wake up! Stand up for your sisters! You know it's real and you should ask yourself who you are doing a favor with this reaction?

so what if the majority of who tried to commit succide in SA are women.this might be the case in most countries around the world.people in the west talk about the poor saudi women who are second class citizens that might be the case to some women in SA but that is not Islam, it is the culture of the male dominated society. thousands of women are raped in the west every day do the saudis object to that? if that is how a western woman likes to live it is up to her to do so.

Greetings,

I am a 28yr old Dr who was born to a Saudi father and a Canadian mother, who lived in Saudi, Europe, & NA. I had a lot of doubts about all those issues about Saudi/islam/arab and carried on my own investigations.
The situation is unacceptable to both genders; it's a big misunderstanding that only Females suffer from this society, MEN SUFFER AS WELL!
A human living in this society is always under pressure of other people's opinion & judgment. A simple example, a teenager trying a cigarette and gets caught by his parents, the results wouldn't be a lecture on the effect of smokes on health, it would be a lecture based on the kids actions and its impact on the micro society the family lives in.
Now apply this simple example on every action you take on your daily actions, living a life to please the people around you rather than living your own.
Regarding arranged marriage it strikes both, males and females.

Regarding females covered up all in black: Historically the Turks have invaded Saudi Arabia and started raping women "forced marriage". To understand the situation, we are talking about a strong tribal community that values nothing in life more than their honor which is highly associated with their women. That being said, the "men" decided to cover up women, & preferably in black. The reason behind the color is simply due to black being less visible of a color most of the 24hrs day and of course at night time when Tribes used to travel due to the high heat at day time. Looking at the Quar'an "sp" there is NOTHING that says a woman should be dressed, treated, or lives a life that she is living in this current society. There is exactly one sentence regarding a woman's dress, it simply states that a woman should cover her cleavage/chest. That implies a dress similar to dresses found in other religions. That sentence doesn’t even implies a "punishment" if that dress code is not met.
Religion is being used to justify selfish, social, or cultural preference. It sickens me that Islam, Christianity, or any other religion is used for a personal gain. Religions are a guide line in life, they are nothing more than simple logic that asks you to do logical things incase our animal instincts strike!
If we are to change the ways or help those women/men live a better life, we are currently attacking the wrong enemy. Religions should be put a side when arguing those events, we should examine the society, and provide alternatives to how things are done now!
Apologies for the long post and thanks for reading

We are really getting sick of American media and American self-righteousness. USA needs a constant enemy. It was USSR before and now it is Islam. We are on the Internet and we know how many young american girls are becoming sluts, doing it either for dollars or to become "celebrity". so US stop criticizing other "second" or "third worlds". you are no better.

As a muslim first of all i would say that both women and men have equal rights. today ppl in islamic countries think more about culture than religion. Even in Muhammad (saw) time women had more freedom than now.

this is a reply to MISCHA from saudi arabia...
so we should not believe all the "BULL" we hear about your country and the treatment of woman??
well,then its time for you or your government to teach us.
i spent some time in your country,i did never see the face of any woman,only theyr eyes,never saw a woman drive a car,woman have theyr on shopping mall,woman can not date,can only be seen with a close family or relative male on the street or anywhere.....well
now why would a woman want to kill herself.......
WITH ALL THAT FREEDOM !!!???
WAKE UP,GIRL !!!

As much as I despise the treatment of women in some Muslim countries, this story is quite misleading. They are only offering half a statistic and make many assumptions.

So almost all failed suicide attempts were women. So what? They don't bother mentioning any figures on the successful suicides. For all we know, 95% of all successful suicides are men. They also don't mention what the actual numbers are. 10 women, 100 women, 10,000 women?

This is a pointless figure with very little meaning on its own.

I believe whole heartedly in women's rights, but I also believe in truthful, honest journalism that delivers real facts.

this is one world and we all live here don't forget, i see a lot of finger pointing happening here. we have been at war amongst ourselves for longer than i wish to believe and the war takes many forms e.g here i see a war of words.
we all need to remember our differences and try to understand that other people have different ways of looking at and living their lives.
freedom is a very abstract concept, and if you look into our past you will see many changes in what people think is ok and what is not.
western woman talk about being free, but are we free from the expectations of our media dictating to us how our bodies should look and act? how many of us live hating ourselves?is that freedom?
of course their are problems to speak of everywhere, but lets not focus on others when we need to make work on ourselves... be the change you wanna see an all that...one world -one love. what world do you want to leave for your children?
peace everybody.

Greetings and best wishes for 2008.

Inside Middle east : Suicide in SA.
I personally appreciate the correspondent for exploring the Inner Side of the Middle East Society.
Recently the worldcame to know the Justice System for the Women (the girl og Quatif) in SA,where the rape victim got punishment which was doublled by the appeal court, is it not enough example to asses the womens position in SA society ?.
How many percent is succesfull in suicide is a secondary point, why womens are taking their lives ---to be assesed.The Womens are not treating as a Human being even.Their life is missarable, no scope of opinion, no free movement, no expression, just to comply with the desire of her man.

Torturing people (Men / Women)In the name of Religion ISLAM does not permite ( I am a Muslim and I know my Religion better).Rather our Great prophet (PBUH) showed how to respect a Women. A Holy Hadith may be quoted here " One day, one Sahaba (FOLOWER) asked the prophet after God and his Prophet who is most respectfull, the prophet replied " It is your Mother, than, Mother and than Mother" he uttered this word mother thrice to prove the position of women in ISLAM because the Women are not Women only but the every Women is a Mother.
The birth place of Islam and his Great Prophet is goin back to pre 570 AD ? I am affraid.

What’s happening in Saudi is not 100% religion, over 80% of the behavior is culture. This is the Arab way of living, if the Saudis were Christians it would be the same. No religion will make them be kind to Females. Because this is how Arab people think. They treat women as slaves; something else was not mentioned in the article. As women are not allowed to drive they are driven by their husbands or brothers or fathers to work (where women can only work as teachers or nurses or any job where they only communicate with women) and when its pay day their salaries goes to their husbands /bro…. and if they do not do that they are forbidden from going to work. And sadly they agree for the reason that it’s the only way to be out the house for some time.
And another thing is a woman is not allowed to do birth control if her husband don’t not agree, and most or maybe all Arabs are known of wanting more and more kids from multiple wife’s only to show off without even knowing his kids names. So imagine that a woman there is a birth machine until she dies. No wonder a woman commit suicide

Strange how little foreigners living in Saudi Arabia understand of the local culture. "Terrible that women could show only their eyes" ! Why do you think they should show you more, for your benefit or for theirs ? Dont you understand that most ladies wearing hijab do so very willingly. After all they fight FOR it from France to Turkey !

The high rate of suicides among women in Saudi Arabia is a clear fact of how women are oppressed from men, blocked and no way out but to chose the exit from life.
a conservative society ought to stay this way, giving up to; temptation dictates the fate of the weak!
one of the symptoms of an abnormal situation, a sick society.

To the hijab talker,
So you said “After all they fight FOR it from France to Turkey”, and the freely wear it! This is what it really means. The term hijab or veil is not used in the Qur'an to refer to an article of clothing for women or men, rather it refers to a spatial curtain that divides or provides privacy. The Qur'an instructs the male believers (Muslims) to talk to wives of Muhammad behind a hijab. This hijab was the responsibility of the men and not the wives of Muhammad. However, in later Muslim societies this instruction specific to the wives of Muhammad was generalized, leading to the segregation of the Muslim men and women. The modesty in Qur'an concerns both men's and women's gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia. The clothing for women involves khumūr over the necklines and jilbab (cloaks) in public so that they may be identified and not harmed. Guidelines for covering of the entire body except for the hands, the feet, and the face, are found in texts of fiqh and hadith that are developed later.
The Qur'an instructs Muslims to dress in a modest fashion. The following verses are generally interpreted as applying to all Muslim men and women.
Surah an-Nur ayah 31 states:
“And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings (khimars) over their bosoms (jaybs), and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.(Qur'an 24:31)
”In the following verse, Muslim women are asked to draw their jalābib (when they go out), as a measure to distinguish themselves from others, so that they are not harassed.
“Those who harass believing men and believing women unjustifiably shall bear the guilt of slander and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their jilbab over them [when they go out]. That is more proper, so that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. God is ever forgiving and merciful. If the hypocrites and those who have the ailment [of jealousy] in their hearts and the scandal mongers of Madinah do not desist, We will rouse you against them, and their days in that city will be numbered. Cursed be they; wherever found, they would be seized and put to death. (Qur'an 33:58-61)
Sounds like the Muslim women are not doing it willing, but being forced to do it because of their religion or they’re accustomed to do so. Does it make it right, no, that’s where freedom comes in, any country that practices any part of the Qur’an are simply weak man that can control the motions because of how their women look…. ”

i watched a documentary once about Saudi women.an american Journalist asked a female saudi university student.how can you accept to be married to a man that is already married?the saudi student replied well I will not accept that Marriege. my religion gave me the right to refuse or accept.but I have a question for you dont you think it is better to be married as a second wife with equal rights for both . than being an only wife with another woman as a girl friend like what is normal in your western culture?

Arab News is a Jeddah ba-sed Newspaper! This arti-cle is based on statis-tics. I feel pity for the people living surpressed for freedom and democracy, especially for the women.
In the west people are sceptical towards the Mus-lims, yet they have come in search for freedom. Think of the women who are forced to be circumcised! They still live in the mens created world. I believe that Islam is not like that.

1. The article source is a Saudi news agency.
2. The article says nothing about Islam as a cause... nor should it.
3. The original article is referenced. There the researcher says, "...in the hospital where she works, they receive around 11 cases every month of women who have failed in their suicide attempts." This is about 132 cases per year.

Nobody is forced to wear the hijab or niqaab. We do it as a respect or obedience to our religion and culture. Sometimes my younger sister does not do it at all. You westerners make a big issue out of it. Relax. and let go of the Bush doctine of forcing freedom and democracy on others.There are 1.5 billion Muslims and I am sure you Americans are not the only smart ones. And by the way, since when is showing your butt crack a sign of freedom and progress? Americans sporting that look, look like they walked right out of their trailer, Brittney!

To Anonymous from 9:35:
And Old Testament does not teach hatred and subjugation of women?? You gotta be kiddin' me. And how about your Jewish Talmud?. That has gotta be the worst, rascist,sexist, discriminatory, religious textbook ever. You weterners better just stick to your porn, NFL, beer, cheerleaders and paris hilton.

These are extremely sad statistics indeed.

That a Woman gives birth, and to forget that and further to forget about ones Mother and her immeasurable value and status, and then treat a woman just as a piece of flesh with such immense disrespect and thus make her suffer beyond imagination is the the worst form of culture anywhere.

With so many many easily noticeable real life incidents, how can one even try to refute these happenings just to defend one's own religion/laws/country? Wherever such incidents occur blatantly and are seen openly, they are bound to get noticed and definitey critisized. How can this be defended? Maybe not very much out of context, but it seems there is a law that says that there need to be 3 witnesses to a rape for the woman to bring charges in some parts of the world. What should a woman do? To cover oneself with a black cloth from head to toe, work all day, and be one of many wives, and a continuos child bearer, and not be given a choice is brutality and a behaviour worse than an animal.

Perhaps there would be a chance for a better life to all if each of us could work for the overall improvement and prosperity of the entire human race itself, rather than towards selfish goals(whether selfish as an individual, or selfish as a religion or for that matter selfish as a Country).

Please let us try in our own peaceful ways to help such women in need.

to posters who knows nothing about Islam,who try to write as specialists in Islam,please educate your self about the religion before writing.you are not talking about a cult, you are talking about a religion that have one quarter of the Human race as followers.

Some so-called religions are not really religions but are actually cults. Some of these cults are military in nature because their realm is of this earth and not of some after-life. To succeed, these religions need to either conquer and absorb non-believers or destroy them utterly and acquire their possessions, which in the cults' eyes include women. Some of these cults are derived from tribal cultures.

These cults claim divine rewards should be given to men, warriors who give their unquestioning allegiance to "divine" leaders. Their rewards are women as well as the spoils of war or religious victories. For those men who are poor enough and gullible enough, they are told their rewards will be claimed in their after life. These rewards include women; virgins by the dozen. Women are of little strategic value to such religions because the men are the warriors and women would only destroy morale if they are treated as well as the men. This is also why tribal cultures belittle women, because tribal cultures involve unending conflict where men are the necessary combatants. So think again, you will never solve the problem of such women killing themselves if you will not admit and face the fact that some religions are actually military cults. This is the crux of this problem as well as others.

the post 8.11pm.proves my point that some posters knows nothing about Islam, they only fear and hate Islam that is why they dont want to study Islam they Just repeat what other haters says or write .I am sure that they dont even know their own religion if they have one.I will not try to talk about Christianity or Judism if I dont take my information from the source the Bible or the Torah .I am sure that they are afraid to take their information from the Quran because that will show them how Ignorant they are.

the statistics give only a percentage...
I would like to know the figures?
for instance; if there are Only 11 sucide attempts in all of Saudi Arabia and 9 of them happen to be women then yes we could also say that 96% of suicide attempts are by women in Saudi Arabia...
but it doesn't tell us anything... I think it's an article spewing more hatred against the Arabs and Muslims by generalizing.

One fundamental achievement of any civilisation should be elimination of discrimination of any sort, be it based on gender, religion, creed, caste, tribal background, whatever. If that is not achieved, no matter however rich a country is, it remains uncivilised. This particular study points to that fundamental truth about the society of Saudi Arabia. Probably such discrimination is prevalent in many other societies in many other countries. If that is the case, can we still call us civilised? Aren't we still as primitive as a wolf or a snake is in a jungle where it is only the physical power that matters and nothing else is relevant? In jungle, usually the mightier kills the weaker. Nobody commits suicide but. In human society, it is not only that one kills another (what we usually call a jungle rule), but also one creates such a situation that the other kills himself/herself (wonder what the members of jungle would call it, a 'Manly Rule'?). In this era we are witnessing a lot of technological innovations, modernisation, economic liberalisation, globalisation, and so on. When will such modernisation of mind will happen? when will we see the liberalisation of society? When will the civilisation be globalised?

How come we don't see articles about suppression in Christianity and Jews? Bible has been equally subjugating of women.After all you Americans claim Islam is a copy Xtianity and judiasm. I see Jewish women in Brooklyn who are married, haved shaved off all their head and wear wigs. Jew women covered like Muslims right here in NY.

Who cares what Americans think??? Your interest in MiddleEast is primarily the over-whelming, one-sided support of Israel and oil. Amercains think why "american" oil is under the Arabs' sands.

Axis of evil is US, Israel, UK.

I would rather be a Muslim's 2nd 3rd or 4th wife than be a Christian or Jew's girlfriend.
If I am the 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife of Muslim/Arab than I am guaranteed by Sharia to get equal care, love, wealth, property, childrens' custody, etc. from my husband. Whereas if I am girlfriend of a Christian/Jew, what do I end up to be? A sex toy for him? Being Christian/Jews girlfriend would give me NO legal right.

And please don't argue as I speak from experience. My aunt is a second wife living in Riyadh and she has no qualms about it. If she had any complaints she would scream about it, believe me, as she is part American as most of you here.