Representatives Lindsey Graham and Chaka Fattah on Clinton in the spotlight

February 14, 2001
Web posted at: 5 p.m. EST (2300 GMT)

(CNN) – Two congressional committees are investigating former President Clinton’s pardon of fugitive financier Marc Rich. On Monday, February 12, Attorney General John Ashcroft did not rule out the Justice Department becoming involved in the investigation.

Representative Lindsey Graham serves South Carolina’s 3^rd Congressional District in the House of Representatives. He is a member of the Education and the Workforce, Judiciary, and Armed Services committees.

Representative Chaka Fattah serves Pennsylvania’s 2^nd Congressional District in the House of Representatives. He is a member of the House Administration, Education and the Workforce, Government Reform and Ethics committees.

CNN Moderator: Welcome to CNN.com, Representative Lindsey Graham.

Representative Lindsey Graham: Good to be with you!

CNN Moderator: With the Justice Department and the state of New York looking into possible wrongdoing by President Clinton, why should Congress become involved in any investigation of former President Clinton at this time?

Representative Lindsey Graham: The role of Congress is part of a check-and-balance scheme. The power to pardon comes from the Constitution. It is important that Congress, even though we can't change the outcome, create a historical record to make sure that if it is an abuse of power, that it not happen again, and our role in the check-and-balance scheme is to review the conduct of the most powerful man in the country, regardless of party.

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Question from chat room: Representative Graham, if there is a danger of violating national security files, why would you want to pursue an investigation that President Bush said to stop?

Representative Lindsey Graham: During the investigation, if the committee comes upon national security matters that are relevant, they can conduct the investigation in closed hearings, and that would be appropriate. Many cases involving potential government abuse occur in areas where national security is an issue; that reason alone cannot stop the investigation.

CNN Moderator: Are you concerned that a congressional investigation of former President Clinton may distract focus from President Bush's legislative initiatives and could result in a Congress unable to enact important legislation?

Representative Lindsey Graham: I'm somewhat concerned about that, but I'm hopeful that, given the statements of prominent Democrats, that this investigation will be truly bipartisan. I believe, regardless of party, we need to fully explain and understand what happened with several pardons in terms of campaign contributions. I believe that it is in everyone's best interest and should not interfere with the normal business of Congress, and this investigation must remain bipartisan.

Comment from chat room: Representative Graham, no Republican ran on the platform of going after Clinton. As a teacher in Ohio, I would rather see your efforts towards fixing the educational problems.

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Representative Lindsey Graham: When you get to be a member of Congress, you have to deal with the issues presented to you. Nobody in the country is above the law. If the president, regardless of party, has engaged in wrongdoing, then it is incumbent on the legal system, including the Congress, to find out what happened. This idea of "let's move on" is very dangerous in a democratic society where freedom is based on following the rules and honoring the rule of law.

CNN Moderator: One of our audience members, Powerstatione, says that if you really mean that, please ask Senator Specter to cool the accusations until he finds some hard facts. Should Senator Specter delay talk of impeachment proceedings?

Representative Lindsey Graham: Yes, I believe we should follow the facts in a bipartisan fashion and concentrate on education, taxes and other issues important to the American people. It is possible to do two things at once in Washington, and I do believe we should not prejudge the outcome of the investigation.

Question from chat room: Does this open new doors to the investigations on former presidents and their pardons -- the Casper Weinberger pardon, for example, made by George Bush?

Representative Lindsey Graham: I don't believe that there's any issue in terms of improper motives; it was a political decision regarding Casper Weinberger. I do not believe the analogy of pardoning people who dodge the draft is appropriate. This case and the allegations made involve a fugitive under indictment for very serious offenses, with a corresponding large amount of money passing into the campaign coffers of the president. That needs to be investigated and not prejudged.

CNN Moderator: Could things become awkward for Republicans if it is found that Lewis Libby had a rather active role in lobbying for Marc Rich's pardon?

Representative Lindsey Graham: I want to know the facts, and if the facts indicate that there was no abuse of power and that there was a logical reason for this pardon, then that's the end of the matter. It doesn't bother me how the story ends; I just believe it's important that we investigate what happened.

Question from chat room: I admire your convictions during the impeachment hearings, BUT much of the country feels ignored, and with growing evidence of frustration, how will you restore confidence?

Representative Lindsey Graham: I believe President Bush's agenda dealing with the tax burden people face, making education more accountable, addressing Social Security and other ticking time bomb problems will give people confidence that what is going on in their lives now and in the future is being honestly talked about in Washington.

However, it is important in a society based on the rule of law that people believe, as much as possible, that even powerful political figures have to live by the same rules as everyone else. That concept must always be present in our society for us to maintain the freedom we've enjoyed.

CNN Moderator: Thank you for joining us today, Representative Lindsey Graham.

Representative Lindsey Graham: Thank you.

CNN Moderator: Welcome to CNN.com, Representative Chaka Fattah.

Representative Chaka Fattah: Let me say good evening to everyone! It's a pleasure to be with you.

CNN Moderator: Should President Clinton have pardoned Marc Rich?

Representative Chaka Fattah: It depends on what information the president had at that time and what parties involved in it communicated to the president. So I think that if there was a good reason, national security, a reason in terms of his interaction with the prime minister of Israel, maybe there is some reason.

Question from chat room: Congressman, when are you going to stop reminding us that Gore won the popular vote?

Representative Chaka Fattah: It's important that he got more of the popular votes. We're the world’s largest democracy, under a one-person, one-vote process, with the exception of the Electoral College provision, and it is important to know that the majority of Americans wanted Al Gore, even if he lost the Electoral College.

CNN Moderator: Several of our audience members are expressing the sentiments of Dade, who asks if you will support an investigation, Representative Fattah, to find out the truth?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I will support an inquiry into any illegal wrongdoing by anyone, but it should be based on facts, not allegations, particularly from people who have a history of making unfounded allegations. For example, President Bush said today that the allegations of destruction at the White House by Clinton staffers or the looting of Air Force One were completely unfounded. So I think we have to be careful before we allege something -- to make sure we have what the facts are.

Question from chat room: Hello, Representative Fattah. I'm glad there is some order to all this madness. I'll tell you, I am an old-school, Mondale-type liberal and was a little frustrated when Clinton moved towards the center, but I do have to say all this attack-dog mentality the GOP has employed has driven me batty. Can you please tell me, do you honestly see any possible punishment for Clinton, considering he does have the right to pardon?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I see no punishment in terms of his exercising a constitutional right to issue a pardon, which is absolute.

Question from chat room: Why won't Congress investigate something that matters -- like the election?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I think that you have a Congress controlled by the Republican Party that for years have been after President Clinton, and they'd much rather do that than anything else. I think the public reaction -- the fact Clinton left office with the highest approval of any president in our history -- disturbs them greatly.

Comment from chat room: Representative Fattah, but remember that the majority of the states voted for George Bush.

Representative Chaka Fattah: That is true, but the states have to be proportioned by population, and Florida, at best, is a tie. Bush or Gore won it by a few hundred votes. The Bush presidency hangs by only a few chads in most people's minds.

Question from chat room: Don’t you agree that we need to focus on the issues that affect our country and that this Clinton fiasco should not be of prime importance?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I think so. The tax cut offered by President Bush, the questions about our economy and what we're going to do about education as a nation are much more important, and I think the Republicans could and should take a page from the Democrats' book. When Bush pardoned Weinberger in the Iran-Contra matter, the Democrats controlled Congress. He did that in the last days of his administration, but we didn't spend time investigating it. We went on to focus on the nation's business.

CNN Moderator: If it is discovered that there was a quid pro quo for the pardon, what action should Congress take? Would you support denying President Clinton the benefits of his office, such as his pension or funds for his office and staff?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I don't believe that we should get into hypothetical questions about what happens if someone's found to do something wrong. We have a system of justice in our country where you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has done something wrong, and then the punishment has to be proportional to the crime.

Question from chat room: Do you really feel that Clinton has not deserved any investigation?

Representative Chaka Fattah: I think that Clinton himself suggested at the beginning of his administration that there were questions about Whitewater, and he instructed the attorney general to appoint an independent counsel. That investigation turned far away from a decade old land deal into what eventually became the Lewinsky matter.

There has also been the travel office firings investigated, the filegate matter has been investigated and campaign finance issues have been investigated, and I think that we probably have had enough of the Republicans going after Clinton. They lost two elections to him, but I don't think they have to be vindictive. He's also done a great deal of good for our country.

CNN Moderator: Do you see Congress getting sidetracked with this investigation and unable to work on President Bush's agenda?

Representative Chaka Fattah: Bush has said he wanted to change the tone in Washington and to stop all the partisan bickering. I think that his efforts at that have failed, as it relates to the Republicans in the Congress. They still desire a partisan war, and that's why this is going on.

CNN Moderator: Thank you for joining us today, Representative Chaka Fattah.

Representative Chaka Fattah: Thank you for having me.

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