Saturday

Candidates Clash in Iowa Debate

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ANDRIA HALL, CNN ANCHOR: The six candidates vying for the Republican presidential nod debated the issues again today. Health care and Social Security provided some key flash points for their Iowa face off, especially between the top three contenders -- Texas Governor George W. Bush, Arizona Senator John McCain, and publisher/millionaire Steve Forbes.

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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Governor Bush's plan has not one penny for Social Security, not one penny for Medicare, and not one penny for paying down the national debt.

And when you run ads saying you're going to take care of Social Security, my friend, that's all hat and no cattle.

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I -- that's cute, but...

MCCAIN: You know, they're always cutest when they're true.

BUSH: That's not true.

MCCAIN: That certainly is.

BUSH: I've got $2 trillion set aside for Social Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALL: Never far from debate the issue that most Americans pay special attention to: taxes

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ALAN KEYES (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The simple logic of the income tax is that it's a slave tax. These gentlemen argue about whether the chains should be lighter, whether they should be heavier. I think it's time that as a tax-enslaved people, we rise up and make it clear, we want the chains off. Abolish the income tax and return to our original constitution of liberty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALL: International politics also entered the fray, with a debate pinpointing China's protective stance over its markets.

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GARY BAUER (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will cap the benefits. I'll enforce the antitrust laws. But I'll also make sure that China quits playing us for suckers. We let them pour their goods in here while they buy less of Iowa farm products than they did five years ago.

And I'll tell our European allies that we bailed you out twice this century. It's time for you to treat us like an ally. Stop protecting your farmers or we will fight just as hard for our farmers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALL: Monday the two Democratic president hopefuls, Vice President Al Gore and Bill Bradley will hold their final debate in Iowa.

Tom Baxter has seen a lot of presidential debates. He is the political editor of "The Atlanta Journal and Constitution" newspaper. He joins us with some insights about today's debate. He is in Iowa.

Tom, thank you for joining us.

HALL: Tom, we saw a lot of humor today, but did we see any clear distinctions between the candidates on the issues?

TOM BAXTER, POLITICAL EDITOR, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION"; Well, I think you see the candidates begin to sort themselves out on the issues. What surprised me most was that you didn't see a very clear distinction in terms of who the real players are in this state. This is a state where John McCain has really not challenged and where Steve Forbes is Governor Bush's chief challenger. And with the exception of that exchange on taxes toward the ends of this debate, there was really no clear face-off between Forbes and Bush that I saw in this debate.

HALL: And you know what was interesting to me as I listened to the candidates, I never saw any real aggression -- I mean, a candidate going after the front-runner or anyone else for that matter...

BAXTER: That's right.

HALL: Is that because all of these men are mindful of the vice presidential nomination, too?

BAXTER: You know, this may seem a simplistic thing, but this was their seventh debate. And I think by this time they've all gotten to know each other and they're a little bit more collegial maybe then they might have been at the beginning of this process. They sort of josh each other and they know each other's joke lines by now. I don't anybody is under any illusions about who the front-runner is, and that reality is beginning to set in. And that may have made for a little bit calmer debate today.

HALL: Well, as the kids would say, that's being kind of kissing up a little bit, too.

BAXTER: Well, it may be. It may be kissing up on the part of some of these candidates. But I really don't think so. I think these are all candidates who have taken -- if you're speaking of Alan Keyes or Gary Bauer or Steve Forbes -- taken fairly strong conservative positions that aren't constant with the front-runners's position in every respect.

HALL: What I did think was also interesting was clearly they were playing to the status of Iowans, which is it's a very conservative state, it's a very religious state, and so you heard debates about the Ten Commandments. And Alan Keyes went as far as to say a prayer, which I thought was interesting, that all nominees actually bowed their head. What did that say to you?

BAXTER: Well, you know, it just strikes me. I wonder how this is going to look in a general election campaign. There's been a lot said about the bad blood and the residue from the Bradley-Gore fight in the Democratic campaign.

I don't think there's going to be any fallout from the candidates bowing their heads in prayer during a debate, but I do think that lot of Americans who are not in the Republican Party, independents who will matter so much in the fall, are perhaps looking with great deal of curiosity at the direction these debates are going.

HALL: Well the fallout may have been if they hadn't bowed their head. I think that would have been interesting to see, to. But they did....

BAXTER: That would have been...

HALL: Go ahead.

BAXTER: That would have been about as likely as one of the candidates demanding that the South Carolina people bring down the Confederate flag last weekend.

HALL: Right, exactly.

Let's talk about the debate last week between Gore and Bradley. What was your take on it? What's your take on it now a week later?

BAXTER: Well, a week later I think you're beginning to see stories -- there was a story in "The New York Times" today about Bill Bradley's sometimes gruff attitude, the fact that he can sometimes be very impatient, doesn't seem to suffer fools very lightly. And I think perhaps you began to see a little of that. In each of these Democratic debates you're beginning to see that emerge a little bit more, too.

HALL: And we did...

BAXTER: How that's going to play and what that's going to mean, I don't know.

HALL: Yes, well it remains to be seen. Well, we did hear a lot about the tax cut issue. Who scored the biggest punch on that one?

BAXTER: If Steve Forbes was able to raise doubts about George Bush's tax cutting ability, then he scored the biggest punch. But if George Bush was able to convince the average voter that he's serious and that he has a realistic plan, he didn't hurt himself too seriously.

HALL: Tom Baxter, don't you hurt yourself out there taking too many notes for the "Atlanta Journal and Constitution." Thank you for joining us.

BAXTER: Thanks.

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