CNN Insight

Austria's Pariah

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RALITSA VASSILEVA, INSIGHT (voice-over): A rally cry across Europe to stop a far-right party from joining the Austrian government. But what is being challenged - Austrian morals or democracy itself?

(on camera): Hello, and welcome to INSIGHT. I'm Ralitsa Vassileva, sitting in for Jonathan Mann.

Austrian politician Joerg Haider is treated like a villain in many countries. Past remarks expressing sympathy for some Nazi policies and personnel and fervent opposition to immigration has won him few friends, except in Austria, where his Freedom Party has performed impressively at the polls and is now poised to join a government coalition.

That prospect has led to unprecedented threats against Austria in the European Union and beyond. On INSIGHT today -- political pariahs.

Despite the international uproar, Austria's president is expected to reluctantly approve the new coalition. CNN's Alessio Vinci joins us now with the latest from Austria's capital, Vienna. Alessio?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ralitsa, President Klestil made it no secret that he would rather avoid allowing the Freedom Party of Joerg Haider from joining the government. But in a recent interview, Mr. Klestil said that in a democracy it is the will of the people that count and not the personal preferences.

And the fact that Mr. Haider is the leader of the second-largest party here, had a strong showing in parliamentary elections late last year, and his popularity, despite international criticism, cannot be ignored.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Joerg Haider, leader of the right-wing Freedom Party, managed to become one of Austria's most popular politicians because, analysts say, he did what other politicians failed to do. He listened to the people.

ANNELIS ROHRER, POLITICAL EDITOR, DIE PRESSE: He aired the grievances of the Austrian people. He put his finger on the sore spots, and really his success is the failure of the other two parties.

VINCI: What really made people sore was a system of political cronyism that awarded jobs and benefits to ruling party sympathizers. But Joerg Haider's political agenda also included more controversial views, especially to those outside Austria.

He has spoken for a zero immigration policy and against the European Union's eastward expansion.

WOLFGANG BACHMAYER, POLLSTER: To most people it's clear that the Freedom Party and Haider is a very populistic and opportunistic conservative party. They use any chance which might be of their political benefit. But most of the Austrians say -- and they are quite clear about that in their opinion -- that Haider is not a Nazi.

VINCI: That is the one thing that people here feel the international community has failed to understand.

(on camera): People who know Joerg Haider say he's a man capable of changing his views to suit the circumstances of the day -- a political chameleon who now appears to be one step closer to what some say is his ultimate goal.

(voice-over): That goal, says journalist Annelis Rohrer, who has covered Haider since the beginning of his political ascent, is to become chancellor himself.

ROHRER: His strategy is to become acceptable by, you know, his party joining the present government and then, say, in two years say, OK, I want to do it myself.

VINCI: But Haider will first have to prove to a more watchful audience than ever before that he can be trusted. Opinion polls here say 50 percent of Austrians want to give Haider and his right-wing party a chance to govern.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He might have some good ideas for the country. So I think also the country should give him at least a short opportunity what he's going to do.

VINCI: If Haider fails to convince the people, most analysts agree Austrians will be quick to vote his party out of power.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): Ralitsa, there has been some Austrians here in the capital of Vienna who have demonstrated against the formation of this coalition, against the possibility of the formation of this coalition. Several thousand Austrians and Viennese people have demonstrated against the formation of this government in front of the parliament here where I'm talking to you.

Also around the city of Vienna, some people are complaining about xenophobic policies of Joerg Haider and, of course, also against his statements that he made in the past, especially statements in favor of Nazi Germany.

Now, these people also were telling reporters today that they were afraid that once this government has been formed, Vienna and Austria will become completely isolated from the international community and would become what some people say a "pariah state."

Back to you.

VASSILEVA: Alessio, thank you.

In a moment, we will return to Vienna to talk to someone who has been closely following the rise of Joerg Haider. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VASSILEVA: Welcome back. Who is Joerg Haider, and what's behind his controversial statements? What about him resonates with the Austrian people? His Freedom Party came in second in parliamentary elections. Melanie Sully has studied Haider closely and has written a book about him called "Haider Phenomenon."

Ms. Sully joins us from Vienna to talk about these issues. Ms. Sully, thank you very much for joining us. First of all, what is behind the controversial statements that Haider has made in the past?

MELANIE SULLY, AUTHOR, "HAIDER PHENOMENON": I think a lot of his statements that he has made have been taken out of context and have only been very selectively quoted. And in my book, I tried to translate most of the speeches in their entirety to give people the opportunity to read them through and to take them in their real context.

VASSILEVA: Your book is called "Haider Phenomenon." What is that phenomenon? Can you explain it to us?

SULLY: I think the phenomenon is that he's a politician that can reinvent himself and come back after many defeats. He's a personality that's been a leader of a party in politics since 1986, when politicians really have a very short shelf life, and he's managed to hang on and to keep coming back after several defeats.

And he manages to polarize society. Either you have a very strong opinion for him or, it seems, a very strong opinion against him. And so, he has this ability to really communicate to people and entertain some and alienate others.

VASSILEVA: What is it about him that connects with Austrian people?

SULLY: I think there's been a feeling for a long time that there should be some kind of change in Austria, some kind of change in Austrian politics. And you have to remember that since the war, there's really been no change in the power relationships in this country. And for the last 30 years, the Socialists have been the leading party in power.

And in fact, the Socialists have only been in opposition for four years, and there's a feeling they've become very stale in office, a little bit arrogant, and they're not looking after their own people. And Haider's appeal to the workers and appeal to a lot of these people who feel they've just been left in the lurch by the Socialists.

VASSILEVA: What kind of reforms do people expect?

SULLY: I think they want to get the budget through, in the first instance, to make sure that Austria will be solvent in the European Union, which must be in the European Union's interest and the partners of Austria. And they want a reduction in the bureaucracy, the red tape, and they want to make sure that it will be a coherent foreign policy line taken in the future.

In the past, there's been a complete block on this. There's a stagnation and not really a coherent foreign policy on neutrality or possible Austrian membership of NATO. These things are really just stagnating at the moment, and people would like to see a government that is going to take some decisions and get the country running again because we had an election in October, and we've still got no government.

VASSILEVA: What about Mr. Haider's expressed anti-immigration views?

SULLY: Well, he's expressed anti-immigration views for a restrictive immigration policy much the same as you would find in the United States and Britain and France and elsewhere. Even in Germany under a red/green government, these are not really out of line.

And they're nothing more or less than what the past coalition has been putting into practice. And so I don't think there would be a dramatic change in immigration policy.

VASSILEVA: How do you explain then the international outrage, particularly in the European Union, Austria's neighbors, its partners in the European Union?

SULLY: I think this is a great disappointment for Austria and also for the People's Party, who has just formed a coalition pact with the Freedom Party, because the People's Party has really been a very pro- European party and pushed hard to get Austria as a member of the European Union. And this is really a great blow for them and is meeting with a lot of misapprehension in Austria.

And I think really the international community has to really think through what it is saying to the people in Austria. We have now three medium-sized parties, two of which have to go into coalition. For various reasons, permutations are withering down because some parties won't or can't go into coalition. We've got this one possibility.

And really what the international community is saying -- boils down to saying that for the foreseeable future, a party that is getting almost a third of the support in opinion polls will not be allowed to be in government.

And this is very dangerous for democracy and could destabilize the whole country. I think it's time this party was integrated, that it took some responsibility, that it stopped shouting and bawling in opposition. It might have to take unpopular measures, but it will have to show responsibility in government. And it should be given a chance, and people should judge a government on its track record and not what it might or might not do.

And in three years' time, it can come back and say to the electorate, do you like our policies? If not, they'll kick them out, and if they like them, they'll have a mandate to carry on. And I think that's just a perfectly normal democracy.

VASSILEVA: How are Austrians responding to this international criticism? Some analysts have said that the European Union's criticism is actually playing in the hands of Joerg Haider.

SULLY: Well, I think we've seen in domestic politics that the attempt to try to marginalize and isolate Haider has only won him support. The attempt, therefore, internationally to do the same will only give him more support, more attention - more media attention, and that seems to be precisely the opposite of what people are trying to achieve. It would be totally counterproductive.

And I said at the same time, produces a very artificial crisis in Austria politically in a country which is really very stable and which there's a good flourishing economy. But it creates an artificial crisis for which there is absolutely no need.

VASSILEVA: Ms. Sully, thank you very much.

In a moment -- is the European Union meddling or morally justified in its strong stand against the Austrians? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VASSILEVA: The possibility of a far-right party in the government of one of its member states is unacceptable to the European Union. The EU is threatening Austria with diplomatic isolation if Haider's party is included in its new coalition. But Austria's president may have no choice but to approve the new coalition with Haider's party out of respect for parliamentary majority.

Does the people's choice count in these circumstances? Earlier, we contacted Portugal's foreign minister, Jaime Gama. Portugal currently holds the rotating EU presidency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAIME GAMA, PORTUGUESE FOREIGN MINISTER: What it has announced that business will not be usual between the 14 member states of EU and Austria.

VASSILEVA: What does that mean, "business will not be usual"?

GAMA: It means a freeze in state and official visits at the political level. It means that we will not support Austrian candidates in international organizations. It means that the ambassadors of Austria will be received at technical level in EU capitals.

VASSILEVA: Some analysts have said that these actions could cause a possible gridlock in the European Union, where unanimous votes have to be taken, if Austria decides to use its veto. Is there any concern about that?

GAMA: No, because this is bilateral between the 14 and Austria. This is not going to block EU working. That's another business.

VASSILEVA: But still, if Austria decides to use its veto.

GAMA: Well, that will be the second big mistake of Austria, but I think they will not go that way.

VASSILEVA: It will be, though, a little awkward at multilateral meetings. You will still have to talk to the Austrian representatives. You will still have to face them.

GAMA: Oh, for working-level talks is not included in our decisions.

VASSILEVA: I was reading President Krestil as saying that he will reluctantly approve the coalition, but he's obliged to do so. Under the democratic principles, he has to respect a parliamentary majority. This is the will of the Austrian people. Is it not what the European Union stands for, the will of the people?

GAMA: We stand for the will of Europe, for the will of democracy and democratic principle. And we very much understand the reluctance of the Austrian president. This is a very strong message from the Austrian president, and the Austrian politicians engaged in this coalition should have taken all the lessons from that strong message from the Austrian president.

VASSILEVA: Mr. Gama, thank you very much for speaking with us.

GAMA: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VASSILEVA: Dorothee Heisenberg joins us now to talk about the European Union's response to the developments in Austria. She is an assistant professor of European studies at Johns Hopkins University.

Professor Heisenberg, thank you very much for joining us.

DOROTHEE HEISENBERG, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: My pleasure.

VASSILEVA: First of all, what do you think the consequences will be for Austria as far as European Union action is concerned?

HEISENBERG: I would be surprised if the European Union institutions actually do very much in the institutional framework that they could utilize. I think right now, as Minister Gama said, it's a bilateral kind of thing with 14 member states acting bilaterally with Austria, and the commission sort of echoing their statements.

But at this point, they have said -- the commission has said that they do not intend to worry about the actual workings of the EU in any significant manner.

VASSILEVA: So this will not affect - if the European Union decides to take that bilateral action, it will be more of a symbolical reaction and it will not affect Austria negatively?

HEISENBERG: At this moment, yes. I would be surprised if they take the next step. But it's certainly within the realm of the possible. I think European Union is a little bit concerned about having a Haider government or a Haider coalition mainly because of his anti-EU sentiments and platform.

But I think at this stage, they are contented to voice that on a member state level and echo it from the commission.

VASSILEVA: Some analysts have said that this could lead to gridlock, and I asked the foreign minister about that. Do you think it could gridlock the European Union?

HEISENBERG: I mean, it has the potential I'm sure, given that Haider is not particularly sympathetic to EU enlargement. All of the accession talks are sufficiently little advanced so that it doesn't seem like it's a realistic possibility to be on the agenda of the EU in any - - in a couple of years, and you know, that may give time for the coalition to work itself out or to have a new coalition formed.

So I think it would be a lot in the future. But certainly if for some reason the coalition couldn't work about EU enlargement, Austria certainly has the possibility to veto enlargement of any of the member states - of accession member states.

VASSILEVA: Some EU countries have expressed concern that if the Freedom Party is included in Austria's government, this could lead to a chain reaction, a resurgence of the far-right in other European Union countries.

HEISENBERG: Yes, I'm skeptical about that view. I don't -- I mean, the far right in other countries does exist, but it's fragmented and it institutionally doesn't have much of a voice.

This is not -- I mean, with less than 5 percent unemployment and 2 percent real growth, Austria is not Germany in 1933, and it just doesn't seem like this is a massive wave rolling across Europe of right-wing party successes. So I'm less worried about that.

VASSILEVA: Specifically, it was Germany that expressed that view because now with the Christian Democrats under the shadow of this financial scandal, they're very much concerned that the supporters of the Christian Democrats, the disillusioned ones would look further right.

HEISENBERG: I mean, again, I think it's a possibility but a very remote one, especially in Germany, which has done significantly better in confronting its wartime past. There is a stigma attached to voting for extremist right-wing parties that is only manifest to a lesser extent in Austria.

And there is also an alternative for those CDU voters, namely the centrist, FDP. So it doesn't seem like there is only one alternative to go to the right for those disaffected CDU voters. So I'm less worried or concerned about Germany at this point.

VASSILEVA: It is very unusual for a European Union member to be berated in this way. You would expect that to happen with regards to the Balkans. But it is very, very strange, and it is unprecedented for the European Union to be so assertive. Are we going to see more of this kind of action from the European Union? Is this a trend that we're seeing?

HEISENBERG: I think it is. The main part for the European Union now is to forge some kind of identity that goes beyond a monetary union and that encompasses a set of values that were sort of reincorporated in the Amsterdam treaty. And I think this is the first time that you see - - that you see the European Union trying to say this is not part of that set of values that we would like to embrace and becoming more forceful in that arena and trying to establish this is a European identity and what Haider represents is outside of that European identity.

VASSILEVA: But is this the right case to enforce this European identity and to be more assertive when you're dealing with -- he has controversial views -- but you're also dealing with the choice of the Austrian people. They like Haider, and they gave him a significant size of the vote.

HEISENBERG: It's a good question whether or not it was wise. Because I see today that the EU seems to be backtracking a little bit saying, "Oh, well, we're prepared to work with whatever comes out of Austria," and stepping off the pressure a little bit. So to some extent, they have to backtrack a little bit from this.

But at the same time, the point has been made that other countries be forewarned, these are not welcome coalition partners -- far-right extremist parties as well as, I'm sure if they existed, far-left extremist parties -- are not welcome coalition partners in this European family.

I don't think that there's any indication that they have anything to do -- or the EU has any possibility to actually meddle in Austria's coalitional affairs or any other member states because that's not a competence that the member states want to give up to the EU organism.

VASSILEVA: So Professor Heisenberg, how do you see this playing itself out in the next few months?

HEISENBERG: It's going to be an interesting question to watch. I expect -- I don't know if a lot of people would say this. But I expect Haider and his party to keep a low profile, and I expect they will enter the government. And I expect them to keep a low profile, to stay away from controversial statements, to show the Austrian people that they're capable of governing.

And I would expect sort of a retreat, a low-key kind of government for the immediate future, dealing with the sort of domestic business of Austria and trying to stay out of the limelight. I don't know if this coalition is going to last that long.

It may or it may not. In the region, it hasn't always. So it's going to be interesting to watch certainly. I would also point to the example of Italy in 1996, where there was some bilateral condemnation of having the AN in the Berlusconi coalition. And again, that lasted less than a year as well. So there wasn't -- while there was initial public fear about having a right-wing neo-Fascist party in the coalition, it really didn't last that long.

VASSILEVA: Professor Heisenberg, thank you.

HEISENBERG: My pleasure.

VASSILEVA: One final word before we go. The United States has also pitched in with strong rhetoric against Joerg Haider and the Freedom Party. While acknowledging that Austrians should make their own decisions, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright sounded a warning. Her words, quote, "There's always a concern when countries don't deal with their past," end of quote.

That's it for this edition of INSIGHT. I'm Ralitsa Vassileva. The news continues.

END

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