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Second Day of GOP Convention Stresses Security IssuesAired August 1, 2000 - 7:00 p.m. ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: From the deck of the most decorated battleship in U.S. Naval history, a decorated general, Norman Schwarzkopf, will tell Republican delegates the state of national defense.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Inside the hall in Philadelphia, the party faithful get set to hear from the conductor of the "straight talk" express.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight from Philadelphia, the 37th Republican National Convention. Two-thousand delegates, 10,000 volunteers, 15,000 media members have converged on the cradle of American Democracy for the nomination of the GOP candidates for presidents and vice president of the United States. In this grand old city, the Grand Old Party of Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan starts its quest for the White House, led by a man with Texas roots and a president's name.
Now, from Philadelphia's First Union Center, here are CNN's Bernard Shaw, Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield.
SHAW: And welcome on this night number two.
Judy, Jeff, Republicans have been maintaining that the Clinton- Gore administration, under that administration, national defense has weakened.
WOODRUFF: That's right. And the theme tonight, you might say it's a little bit wordy, but what they're calling it, "strength in security, with a purpose, safe in our homes and in the world," but it's the world that they're mainly focusing on tonight.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: It is the world that they're focusing on, but with a decided subtext, two of them, I would suggest. We're going to want to hear tonight from George W. Bush's principal foreign policy adviser, Condoleezza Rice, associated with last Republican administration, not so incidentally a relatively young African-American woman, not the sort face we associate with defense and policy. And then there they are going to look back, I suggest, back, back to the primary season, because they are featuring Senator John McCain, who provided the most interesting storyline of this election year with "straight talk" express and the shocking New Hampshire victory.
And yes, John McCain will be talking about the world, the challenges, patriotism, sacrifice, and he is telling the delegates, and more importantly, America, I am wholeheartedly with George W. Bush, a message the Bush campaign is, one might say, more than happy to hear.
WOODRUFF: That's right, because he gave them a healthy challenge. He was in there, scared him mightily in New Hampshire, as Jeff points out. Michigan was another scare. I mean, there are several states down there where a majority of the delegates were originally for John McCain.
SHAW: Indeed, also on the floor, still reverberating the words heard last night from among other people, Former Army General Colin Powell, former chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Let's check in with our correspondents.
First to the podium -- Wolf Blitzer, the mood on floor the mood based on last night's?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is no doubt here, Bernie, that everyone here is energized, they're pumped up, they smell victory, they think it's going to be a big success, and they're energized in part, perhaps in large part, because of the message delivered by General Powell last night. He spoke for some 25 minutes. He was very, very warmly received, enthusiastically received, and people all over this convention, whether very, very conservative Republicans or more moderate Republicans, they seem pumped, they seem ready go.
Organizers here say that they got their point across to the millions of Americans who were watching on television last night. They're encouraged by the numbers they're getting of how many people actually watched the speeches or watched at least part of this Republican convention, because this so-called new face of the Republican Party, the outreach to minorities, African-Americans, Latinos and others, seems to be exactly the message that they wanted to project.
Let's go to the floor and our Sr. political correspondent Candy Crowley for more reaction -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No one was happier about the speech from Colin Powell than George W. Bush, en route here through six swing states. Bush was asked about the speech this morning. He noted that both he and Powell had talked in the morning before the speech, and when Colin Powell told Bush what he would say, Bush said, "Please do." So this speech came with express permission and approval of George W. Bush, which is not to say that on this specifics Bush agrees with Colin Powell, particularly on affirmative action. Powell, who made a very strong statement about the Republican Party, criticizing it for its criticism of affirmative action. Bush prefers term "affirmative access." The bests example they give of that is that in Texas schools, in high schools, the top 10 percent in any high school class is guaranteed admission to a Texas state school.
As a matters of fact, the Bush campaign doesn't even mind that it disagrees with Colin Powell on affirmative action, at least in the specifics, nor does it matter that they disagree with him on abortion. As a matter of fact, they believe that Colin Powell was up here speaking about these issues only proves the point that this a big tent party.
Now to my colleague Frank Sesno.
FRANK SESNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reaction within the African- American community is decidedly mixed. Those African-Americans delegates here were deeply appreciative of Colin Powell's remarks, Candy, saying at least its a start, but recognizing the party has a very long way to go.
Outside of this convention hall, it was altogether different. I spoke with the Reverend Jesse Jackson, civil rights leader, just a little while ago. And he said where the rubber meets the road, Colin Powell and George Bush are way far apart. because Powell is, in effect, calling for more spending, on things of concern to black voters, such as schools, jails, the war against drugs and that sort of thing, Jackson also says there is a gigantic disconnect between the people in this hall, in the Congress, and the money folks up in the skyboxes here, in terms of who's making the decision. He said they're virtually, all white. Kweisi Mfume, head of NAACP wanted to address this group. He was turned down. Clearly, there is a lot of work still to be done -- Jeanne Meserve.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New Jersey Governor Christie Todd Whitman spoke today to the Black Republican Leadership Council, and said to them it was time for police departments around the country to end racial profiling, this another attempt by Republicans to reach out to African-Americans. But let me tell you, this party is not in fantasyland. It knows that despite its multi-hued presentation here and aggressive outreach efforts in this states, it is unlikely that large numbers of African-Americans are going to come flocking to this party. But that is not really the points. What are they trying to do is reach out to the swing voters, the independents, the women, in states like Illinois. These are people who in the past have been turned off by what they perceive as the exclusionary tone of the Republican Party.
But there is a rub here, there is a problem -- they have to appeal to those people in the middle, without alienating the people on the right. The conservatives that have been bedrock of the party, but they are holding their criticism in the interest and unity and the hope of victory.
Now for Democratic reaction to John King in Tennessee.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Gene, thank you. We are standing here in front of the Tennessee delegation, a group of Republicans who hopes to send Al Gore back home to Tennessee. From the Gore campaign today, no reaction directly from vice president. As tradition, he is vacationing during the Republican convention. His campaign, though, did put out a piece of paper, and his aides making the case verbally that that speech you heard from a Colin Powell on the podium last night, would not be a speech approved by most delegates on floor here of the Republican convention. For example, they noted General Powell said that every child in America should have health care. According to the Gore campaign, Governor Bush has no plan to do that. They also said that the vice president has a much better plan, to get all the education priorities outlined by General Powell. Again, the vice president, as is tradition, keeping relatively low key.
But very unusual development these past few days. The president of the United States, Bill Clinton, on several occasions has pointedly criticized Governor Bush and has suggested on one occasion, that Governor Bush is benefiting simply from being the son of a former president. Today, on his way here to Philadelphia, the man who will become the Republican nominee two nights from now, George W. Bush, decide it was time to fire back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know something, I welcome President Clinton's criticism. It's amazing to me that the president of the United States would spend time trying to be a political pundit. He is so desperate to have his legacy intact by getting Al Gore elected, he'll say anything, just like Al Gore will. And I welcome him into the arena. He was criticizing Dick Cheney the other day, I noticed. And, you know, it's his prerogative. It's -- I'm not the least bit surprised though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now as the Republican convention continues, the Democrats making their case not so much in front of the cameras with politicians. but with television ads on in 17 battleground states criticizing Governor Bush's record in Texas. In the next few days, those ads will switch to another subject -- health care.
Back to you in booth.
GREENFIELD: It's interesting to me, Judy and Bernie, Bill, that what we talk about scripted convention and the one message, look what they're doing in the first two nights. The first night, they put on General Powell, who flatly disagrees with his own presidential nominee on affirmative action and the role of lobbyists, and tonight we're hearing from man who tried to deny George W. Bush the nomination. So it seems to be pretty clear that they're saying there is room for a lot of people, even people who disagree with the government on basic issues.
WOODRUFF: That's true, that's true. They're clearly onboard in terms of who nominee is and so forth. But it is interesting, I think, that these notes from the Democrats of the first, sort of, tension that we've gotten out of this very, very love-in of a convention.
Well, two of the main speakers this week were out there checking out the microphones on the convention floor and podium today, one of them Dick Cheney. Here is John McCain, who of course is the one of the main speakers tonight. Dick Cheney was also there testing the microphone, checking out that lectern where he will be speaking later on this week. But it is McCain who speaks tonight, and he is just one part of a full schedule this Tuesday evening.
Here's a look at this evening, the second night of the Republican national convention, Tuesday, August 1st. At the end of the 8 o'clock hour, retired Army General Norman Schwarzkopf addresses the convention via satellite, but his stage will be the deck of the Navy ship the USS New Jersey. Schwarzkopf will discuss military readiness as part of tonight's theme: "Strength and security with a purpose, safe in our homes and the world."
Former Senator Bob Dole will lead a salute to U.S. military veterans, especially those who served in World War II, as he did.
In the 10:00 o'clock hour, Condoleezza Rice talks about international relations, an expertise she used as an adviser to former President Bush. She continues in that role with his son, the presidential candidate. Former presidential candidate Elizabeth Dole will return to a recurring theme of the convention and the party: She'll discuss strength through compassion.
Former presidential challenger John McCain, who spent 5 1/2 years as a Vietnamese prisoner of war, discusses the importance of military strength in the closing minutes of Tuesday, August 1st.
GREENFIELD: Well, it is almost certain that if George Bush becomes president he will listen to Condoleezza Rice, and it is possible that he might be listening to John McCain as a member of his Cabinet. But the broader question is who else does George Bush, a potential president, listen to. We're going to take that up when we come back. Please stay with us.
SHAW: One of the things about radio in the old days was you had to speak with authority. At the podium, Wolf Blitzer has a man who speaks with authority. He's also the permanent chairman of this convention, House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
BLITZER: Thank you, Bernie.
Mr. Speaker, when you take a look at the news of the day so far, this exchange, the verbal exchange between President Clinton and George W. Bush, is this politics as usual or is there something going on that's not so -- that's not so usual?
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, actually, I've just never seen this ever happen before in a campaign, and when you're going through your convention and having the other side weigh in. Usually, it's been a good time, hands-off, let the party have its day, you know, lay out its vision without the other side weighing in. So it's very unusual, I think.
BLITZER: Well,why do you think they're doing it?
HASTERT: Well, I think one of the reasons is the Democrat Party is behind. They are worried about it. And they're doing everything, which is typical of their style, of fighting back. They're fighting back right away. They're not waiting.
BLITZER: You're going to bring down the gavel shortly here. What do you hope -- what do you, one of the organizers, hope to achieve on this second night of this convention?
HASTERT: Well, I think we started laying out the vision of the Republican Party well last night, and Mrs. Bush and General Powell did a very excellent job, I think, of beginning that.
We're going to have a little tribute of our past presidents and our people who were the leaders of the past, kind of go back and step -- what are the roots of this party? What did people bring to this party? And then we're going to turn around, look at the future. What are our responsibilities? National defense -- Norman Schwarzkopf. And you know, have the other side of the story, John McCain here tonight. I think that brings people together in saying, you know, this party has something, we are vital, we're going to move forward and really get our story out there.
BLITZER: Mr. Speaker, thank you so you much for joining us. I know you'll be back tomorrow in another capacity, but we'll save that for our audience.
Thank you so much for joining us. Back to the booth, Jeff.
GREENFIELD: Thank you, Wolf. A reminder that Dennis Hastert was a wrestling coach, which seems like a pretty good piece of training to be speaker of the House of Representatives.
Now, when we talk about a president, we're also talking about the men and women around that president. Think of John Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis. Think of Roosevelt trying to combat the Depression or Ronald Reagan planning what to do about the Soviet Union.
As governor, George W. Bush has set a distinct and very significant governing style. He sets the broad policies, but he leaves the details of the implementation to the others. Who might those others be in the White House? Our Candy Crowley takes a look
CROWLEY (voice-over): Where does George Bush go for advice? Everywhere.
KARL ROVE, BUSH SENIOR STRATEGIST: He's obviously got a staff. He relies upon advice and counsel from his staff. But he's also got a wide range of friends and acquaintances from around the country, and he keeps a very, you know, sharp ear open for advice and counsel from people.
CROWLEY: Who does George Bush listen to? How long have you got?
ROVE: He's a tremendous listener. He reaches out to former schoolmates, classmates, former co-workers, people he's been in business with. So I think in that sense there is an unofficial kitchen cabinet.
CROWLEY: But in the traditional sense, there is no kitchen cabinet in the Bush campaign, no small cadre of unofficial advisers who sit around a table and chew over details of strategy and policy. There is rather a larger group, many culled from the platinum rolodexes of the Reagan and Bush administrations, names who are from time to time called upon for input.
But on a regular basis, some are more called upon than others.
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Condoleezza Rice and Larry Lindsay and Steve Goldsmith are three names of people that have come since the campaign got started. I trust their judgment.
CROWLEY: A clear Bush favorite, Condoleezza Rice is the marquee player on international policy. The top Soviet expert on President Bush's national security team, Rice helped formulate U.S.-Russian policy in the post-Cold War era.
A former governor at the Federal Reserve, Larry Lindsey serves as Bush's mainstay economic adviser.
And domestic policy falls into the bailiwick of the former mayor of Indianapolis, Stephen Goldsmith.
On the staff side, Bush relies on a tightly knit trio of political and strategic advisers.
BUSH: Karen Hughes, Joe Albaugh, Karl Rove are three names of people that have been with me ever since I ran for governor of Texas. They're extremely close. They're also friends.
CROWLEY: The iron triangle: They hate the name because they think it makes them sound too exclusive and too protective. They are all Texas and all loyal. All have been with him seven years or more.
Hughes runs the communications operation. Rove is the top political strategist. Albaugh makes the place work. They report to Don Evans.
BUSH: Don Evans is a friend of mine that is for me for the right reason.
DON EVANS, BUSH ADVISER: The next president of the United States...
CROWLEY: Evans says his conversations with Bush range from how the message is going across in the country to the activities of old friends from Midland. Evans is a successful businessman who is smart and knows how to raise money. He is a loyal, decades-long Bush friend. He is not a political pro, but he's learning.
EVANS: He does have a kitchen cabinet. It's the American people.
CROWLEY: To a person, all of those who are closest to Bush say he takes some advice, he discards other advice, and in the end, the decision is his alone -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, Candy Crowley, advice on matters domestic and international. Tonight the focus is international, and for that, Bill Schneider joins us to tell us a little bit what Americans think about things international -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Exactly. That's the theme for tonight. It's world affairs.
Now, that's strange: Who's concerned about world affairs? Where are the voters?
Well, the voters' big concerns this year are education, health care, Social Security. World affairs ranks very low. And don't forget that famous pop quiz when a sneaky reporter asked Governor Bush to name some world leaders.
Well, duh, why would the convention want to call attention to Bush's weakness? Well, surprise, world affairs is not Bush's weakness, at least not in the voters' perception. International policy is the area where Bush has his strongest lead over Al Gore. Now why do voters think the governor of Texas is so good on world affairs? Because he's seen as a stronger leader than Al Gore. And because world affairs was his father's strong suit. Young Bush has signed on several major advisers on international policy from his father's administration, including Dick Cheney. Thanks, dad.
And one more thing, tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Someone is bound to point that out. But Saddam Hussein is still in power. I don't think anybody is going point that out.
WOODRUFF: You don't think so?
SCHNEIDER: I don't think so.
SHAW: He might be watching our convention coverage, you know.
WOODRUFF: That's right.
GREENFIELD: Does this suggest to you that in the absence of any interest in international affairs, that it might be an actual advantage to Al Gore if foreign policy came to the surface in the fall, if there were some kind of foreign policy issue, even a crisis, that would focus attention, do you think?
SCHNEIDER: It might well, because, he is seen as having more direct personal experience, in international affairs, and generally, accrues to benefit of the incumbent. Now he's not the incumbent president. He's incumbent vice president, but if people want a sure and steady hand, the vice president is someplace they might turn. WOODRUFF: But it is significant that they did decided to devote virtually this entire night to international affairs. I mean, they could have done it some other way, but they chose to talk about it.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. An issue that ranks very low in voters concerns this year, unlike most elections of the past 30 years.
SHAW: Well, who is whispering into this man's ear? Candy told us a little bit more on the advisers of George Walker Bush.
Let's go now to the floor and Candy Crowley -- I'm sorry, Jeanne Meserve.
MESERVE: That's OK, Bernie, happy to be mistaken for Candy.
Down here right now with Governor John Engler of Michigan, who has known the governor for more than 10 years and has supported his candidacy.
When it comes to international affairs, does Governor Bush have what it takes?
GOV. JOHN ENGLER, MICHIGAN DELEGATION CO-CHAIRMAN: Well, I think he certainly does. Interestingly, he comes with a set of experiences that are certainly far greater than Bill Clinton, for example had, when he arrived at the presidency being a governor on the international border with Mexico. He's long had relations with the Mexican governor and the Mexican government, as well as in Central and South America. So there's a side there, without mentioning all of the other background that he's had just through association.
I thought the pick of Dick Cheney was very interesting, because he said, you know, I'm willing to put somebody on this ticket who's strength complements my strengths, and we've got a really great team.
MESERVE: Are there areas where the governor has less knowledge than he will need? Specifically, I'm thinking in terms of Asia, of China, where there is going to be a big challenge next administration?
ENGLER: Well, no question about that. I suppose. But, you know, the one strength, the one cardinal virtue that you have to have in negotiating with foreign leaders is being a person of great integrity who's word means exactly what you say, somebody who's not going to use the international stage as a way to try to get well back home, to fix domestic problems, and I think George Bush has a great sense about people and a great ability to listen, and I think that's another skill sometimes is in short supply.
MESERVE: Governor John Engler, thanks so much for joining us here today.
ENGLER: Thank you.
MESERVE: Now back to the booth.
WOODRUFF: All right, Jeanne Meserve. And where there are people making political decisions, there are lobbyists. And when we come back, we'll tell you about lobbyists all over the place here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1948)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The convention will now come to order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the 1948 Republican convention in Philadelphia, delegates had to deal with something new -- television. For the first time, the events were broadcast live to the East Coast. Part leaders told delegates to be aware of the TV cameras, telling them, don't take off your shoes and take the toothpick out of your mouths.
Illinois Governor Dwight Green was the keynote speaker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TOM GREEN, ILLINOIS: We shall not deceive you, as did the Democrats before two World Wars by crying peace when there was no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Green had prepared for the harsh television lights by tanning under a sun lamp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GREENFIELD: Wish I had done that.
Now we know on the streets of Chicago, we know on the streets of Seattle that sometimes events outside the hall can influence what is happening inside the hall. On the streets of Philadelphia today, more than 100 demonstrators have been arrested. Our Charles Bierbauer has been covering that story.
CHARLES BIERBAUER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jeff, perhaps emboldened by what did happen in Seattle, demonstrators and police have been facing off all afternoon here in downtown Philadelphia. These are live pictures we're going to be looking at now, just outside of city hall. CNN can confirm that at least 113 demonstrators have been arrested. I myself have seen perhaps 20 of those, most around city hall, where young people sat down in the street, linked arms and defied police to arrest them in this act of civil disobedience.
There are several demonstrations that converged in the course of the afternoon. Their causes are multiple -- economic justice, racial injustice, they say, police brutality, they contend, and the death penalty, which they raised both in the context of Texas, where Governor George W. Bush has in many cases refused to stop executions, and also in a very localized context, in the behalf of Mumia Abu- Jamal. He is a black Philadelphian on death row here in Pennsylvania.
But this is not entirely aimed at the Republicans. In one part of the demonstration, a speaker was advocating an act of civil disobedience, but saying, let's use our right not to vote, and suggesting not voting for either party.
This was relatively calm, in spite of all the commotion. I asked one police captain. He said, well, you'd have to define relatively calm. I said, I've seen worse. He said, he had as well -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, Charles Bierbauer, thanks for that report.
Well, whatever is going on in the streets of Philadelphia, for public consumption, this convention is all about openness, about opening this party to new faces, to new constituencies. But you know, there's another whole set of meetings going on in this city, between the politicians and the lobbyist. And there the doors are most definitely closed.
Brooks Jackson has that.
BROOKS JACKSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This part of the convention they don't want you to see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you not block the sidewalk?
JACKSON (on camera): I'm Brooks Jackson for CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you, Brooks, don't worry.
JACKSON: Anybody here...
(voice-over): Corporate parties, wining, dining, entertaining. This rock'n'roll bash, to which we were politely dis-invited, is for Congressman Mike Oxley of Ohio. He wants to be chairman of the House Commerce Committee.
(on camera): The event reportedly costs $400,000. And we're told it was paid for by trade associations for the insurance industry and electric utilities, industries overseen by the Commerce Committee.
(voice-over): Inside the convention hall, it's all scripted, produced, made for TV. Outside, it's a lobbyists' ball. General Motors put on this event for lawmakers in states where it has factories. Here's Senator Fred Thompson, and here's Tennessee's other Senator, Bill Frist. Business is spending millions on these parties. Nobody knows how many millions. There's no disclosure required.
Lobbyists by the train-load -- the Union Pacific actually laid half a mile of new track and brought 30 gleaming rail cars here to entertain lawmakers and delegates. They call it marketing, an educational tool.
GARY SCHUSTER, UNION PACIFIC: We have dinners, breakfasts, lunches, receptions.
JACKSON: There are lounge cars, dining cars, cooking cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be having New Orleans-style barbecued shrimp.
JACKSON: The lobbying or marketing or education -- whatever it is -- is bipartisan. Many of these cars will soon head to Los Angeles for the Democratic Convention.
LARRY MAKINSON, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: Well, there's going to be plenty of parties at this -- at both parties' conventions. They don't call them party conventions for nothing.
JACKSON: But it's partying with a purpose. DaimlerChrysler, now based in Germany, is here selling itself as a compassionate American corporation. The cost? Well, they say not so much.
ROBERT LIBERATORE, DAIMLERCHRYSLER: Basically, the cost of doing a show like this, an exhibit like this, is less than doing a Super Bowl spot.
JACKSON: And look who's saying the same thing, one of the lawmakers being honored by DaimlerChrysler.
REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: You know, the same organization that's doing this interview would charge about -- for a Super Bowl -- would charge about $1.2 million for a 30-second commercial -- $1.2 million for a 30-second commercial.
JACKSON: Super Bowl -- not on CNN. Watts was confused, possibly distracted by all that corporate partying.
Brooks Jackson, CNN, following the money in Philadelphia.
GREENFIELD: I guess we are not going to be covering the Super Bowl. Brooks is right.
Now, all through this convention week, we have been giving you quizzes to test your political knowledge. And we're going to do three more of them now. Please get out your pencils and paper. Do not call. We have nothing to give you but our admiration if you get these right.
First, which presidential election winner earned the highest electoral vote total in history? Was it: Ronald Reagan in 1984, Richard Nixon in 1972, Abraham Lincoln in 1864, Franklin Roosevelt in 1944? The correct answer -- Judy, Bernie?
WOODRUFF: Was it Roosevelt?
GREENFIELD: You'll have to leave the booth. It was Ronald Reagan in 1984. He carried everything but Minnesota and the District of Columbia.
SHAW: Oh, boy.
GREENFIELD: Right, OK, well, let's try this next one. Prescott Bush, the grandfather of Texas Governor George W. Bush, served as United States senator for which state? Was it: Maine, (b) Texas...
GREENFIELD: ... (c) Florida, (d) Connecticut? And the answer, gentleman and lady is...
GREENFIELD: This is correct -- Connecticut Yankee. OK, last question: Who of these presidential candidates carried 27 states, the most ever in a losing campaign? Was it Richard Nixon in 1960, was George Bush in 1992, was it Tom Dewey in 1948, or Gerald Ford in 1976?
WOODRUFF: Gerald Ford?
SHAW: Gerry Ford.
GREENFIELD: We got answers. You don't want to call a friend? See, it's that lame reference. OK, it was Gerry Ford in 1976. And in fact, if he carried New York state...
WOODRUFF: My reputation is intact, almost.
GREENFIELD: ... if he carried New York state, which he almost did, he would have been elected president with the minority of the popular vote -- with fewer popular votes than Jimmy Carter -- and then we would have had a dust-up. I believe we will take a break now. And we will be back with much more in a moment. Congratulations.
SHAW: The auditorium here in Philadelphia. The delegates are filing in. The buses are bringing them from their downtown hotels. And in about 10 minutes, things will get under way for night number two.
Joining us now, CNN commentator and former White House press secretary for President Clinton, that gentleman on the left, Mike McCurry -- and from CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Mary Matalin.
Mike, Mary, what is President Clinton trying to do? Is he in the position of lobbing a grenade across the stage, trying to goad Governor Bush by these comments he's made about the governor being the son of a president, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera -- Mike.
MIKE MCCURRY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, Bernie, he loves politics. I don't think there's ever been anyone who has played at this level who really enjoys the give-and-take of politics as much as he does. And my guess, it's just constitutionally incapable for him to stay out of the fray. Now, very interestingly, he feels almost paternal to the Gore campaign at this point.
If you think of the other side of this race, it really is a question of paternity. And I suspect you are going to see a lot more of this. It was very clear today that Governor Bush got drawn into this debate very, very quickly, in a sense defending his father's entry into the race. President Bush, this morning, was on television calling the opposition research division at the Democratic Committee a bunch of nerds -- I mean, sort of strange language in a way for a former president.
But if you think about it, Bill Clinton gets drawn into it easily, too, because he feels so intensely about Al Gore and the job he has done. And I suspect this is the first moment of this convention that looked like it was off-script for the Republicans. And I don't know if Mary would agree with that, but I think this was not according to the program. They didn't want to have this excursion into a debate between two presidents today.
MARY MATALIN, CNN "CROSSFIRE": Well, I'm sure that it wasn't according to plan, but I think American voters, Bernie, made the difference between paternity between two political addicts -- that would be the president and the vice president -- and a real father and a real son. Yes, Governor Bush has said that he gets more upset by attacks on his father. And the father said he gets more upset by the attacks on his son than being attacked individually. And I think voters recognize that.
But the problem with what President Clinton is doing -- which is unprecedented -- it has never happened. Reagan didn't do it. This term for Gore is analogous to ours in '88. Reagan did not overshadow Vice President Bush when it was his time to show his leadership skill. And this is a particular vulnerability for Al Gore, who has a 20-point deficit on leadership. He is not going to get there if Clinton keeps big-footing it.
Also, this attack on the daddy -- daddy's foot -- President Bush has a 74 percent job approval rate. People liked that time. They liked that man. It's just -- this is a three-cushion shot that is just not working for them. And I suspect the Gore campaign has not sent the president out there to shake this thing up.
MCCURRY: Mary, let me take some issue with you on this. Tonight is going to be a night devoted to the considerable achievements of President Bush in the foreign policy arena. You're going to hear a lot of attacks about where the Clinton stewardship of the U.S. military has been, for example -- charges that, by the way, I think are wrong, because I think they've got their facts wrong.
But you know, in a way this highlights the problem for Governor Bush. Because associating the memory of that victory in the Desert Storm war, that retinue of people, including Dick Cheney, who were there, emblematic of the stewardship of President Bush in office, is a reminder to the whole country that maybe the son is not the equal of the father. I think there is an inherent tension in this, and we're going to see it over and over in this campaign.
WOODRUFF: Mary, go ahead.
MATALIN: Well, I'm not sure that's clearly what they are trying to do tonight, but that is a reminder, something people look at favorably. What they're trying to point out tonight is how the military under the Clinton stewardship is underpaid, undertrained, demoralized.
MCCURRY: They had the largest increase in pay for the U.S. military, and you know, the cuts they are going to talk about tonight began under President Reagan. Why? Because the Cold War came to an end. It was natural to sort of downsize -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Mike, you know, just picking up on this theme. I mean, it's not just President Clinton who's making these comment, it's Hillary Clinton, in New York, talking about, you know, political amnesia. Taking a shot, not just at Lazio, but this whole Republican convention, at George W. Bush. Do you really believe Al Gore is pleased to have this going on by his president, his boss, and by the first lady runs in New York?
MCCURRY: I think to be honest with you, Judy, Al Gore is probably happy he's on a beach somewhere in North Carolina right about now. In fairness to Mrs. Clinton, she's a candidate for office, in which there are very high stakes being raised by this convention for her own race. Now this, again, is going to be part of the tension of having the existing first family in the middle of politics in this very political season that we're entering into. I don't see any other way. The Gore campaign is going to have to successfully navigate around it, and they're going to have to take that moment that comes in Los Angeles to really put him center stage, so it becomes his convention, his party, and really his vision of the future that we argue about going ahead.
MATALIN: But it's going to be, Judy, going to be very difficult for the vice president to do that, if for no other reason, even if there is some way to control an uncontrollable a president here who is a political addict. He cannot wipe from the stage here this very high-profile race, in many cases more high-profile race, in New York, which obviously is the first lady's brings, which brings us to last night. Laura Bush -- she gave a wonderful speech. Her teleprompter broke. She didn't miss a beat. But for Republicans and I think the rest of the country, a very interesting contrast with the sitting first lady in a positive -- to the positive for the Bush campaign.
GREENFIELD: Mary and Mike, let me just put something on the table for you. Don't both these candidates, in a sense, have the same problem? That is, Gore wants to associate himself with Clinton but doesn't want Clinton to overshadow him. George W. Bush wants to kind of be associated with the better feeling about his father, but doesn't want father to make him look like daddy's boy. I mean, isn't this a rather unusual, almost unprecedented kind of presidential campaign in both campaigns?
MCCURRY: It has to be, by definition, unprecedented, because we've never been in the situation where a first lady was taking such an active role in politics. But you know, in a way, it's part of the drama that plays out. This is a very human campaign season that we're into, and it is going to be -- the human emotions are going to be just beneath the surface here. I saw the clip today of Governor Bush as he reacted, and you could tell there was the anger of a son coming to the defense of his father. This is going to be a very strange campaign for this reason, because you're going to see more of it. I suspect the Democrats learned something valuable today. They found out that you can really rattle Governor George Bush by talking about his father.
MATALIN: Jeff, one reason this isn't a problem for the governor, forget the drama. I don't think people object to the son being rattled by attacks on his father. But George Bush is changing the face of the Republican Party. This is the 21st century Republican Party. This convention is reflection of him. Bill Clinton has already moved his party to the center in 1992. That's what George Bush is doing, and reminding people of the civility and the dignity of this president, of his father's term can only be a positive, I think.
SHAW: OK, Mary Matalin, Mike McCurry, thanks very much.
Senator John McCain -- it's his night tonight. And also the delegates continue filing into the hall. We're getting ready to get start it very shortly.
When we come back, Mrs. McCain and a look at the second night at the Republicans convening here in Philadelphia.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We'll be presented tonight by the Joint Services Color Guard.
SHAW: As the colors come forward at the invitation of House Speaker Hastert, the pledge of allegiance is going to be given by Everett Alvarez, a man who was a prisoner war -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: That's right, the first American pilot shot down in North Vietnam in 1964. He was -- spent eight years in Vietnam as a POW. He was captured and taken to the infamous Hanoi Hilton, for the first year and a half spent in solitary confinement.
GREENFIELD: And I think we see a rather deliberate precursor here to the featured speaker of the night, John McCain, who spent 5 1/2 years in a North Vietnamese prison, some of that in that same infamous Hanoi Hilton.
SHAW: And music from Bridge Over the River Choir, "Colonel Bogey's March," and of course that movie about prisoners of war. Brings back memories. It's a good feeling to hear this tune when you're free. First behind bars, and when you are captured, these strings might go through your head quite a bit. They certainly might have gone through the head of the man from Arizona, John McCain.
GREENFIELD: Bernie, that's a really good point. It's amazing how everything fits together. We talk perhaps too much about, to use the cliche, the scripted convention, but you have the leader of the Pledge of Allegiance, the music picked for him. The featured speaker of the night. Condoleezza Rice, telling us how future Vietnams are going to be avoided, one assumes all part of a common theme. The contrast between conventions of old when they couldn't tell the president of the United States what time in the morning he was going to speak at a convention like tonight is highlighted even at the very start of this kind of convention.
SHAW: And from the decks of the most decorated battleship in United States Naval history tonight, Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf.
WOODRUFF: That's right, who led the United States, led the Allies in the Gulf War 10 years ago, a man who really came to symbolize at a point when people really had some doubts about the American military, just what the American military was capable of.
SHAW: It looks calm on the floor, but it's noisy, it's warm, sometimes hot.
Candy Crowley, you're down there. What does it feel like?
CROWLEY: Bernie, it's getting very crowded down here. This is still a very excited group. I think it's going to take four days to wear them down. They are now, just as you came to me, of course, they quieted down for the Pledge of Allegiance, as you know. This is a military night, and they will be -- here's the Pledge of Allegiance now.
GREENFIELD: He was, by the way, a supporter of John McCain in the primaries.
EVERETT ALVAREZ, FORMER POW: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: From Detroit, Michigan, wearing a full costume from the region of Krakow, Poland, to honor America, 9-year- old...
SHAW: Doesn't he look fit? You can see why he survived eight years.
GREENFIELD: And once again, at the risk of repeating myself, the thematic unity of this convention -- yes, the POW who supported John McCain in leading us in the Pledge of Allegiance to set up the featured speaker of the night, John McCain. And we'll be back in a minute.
GREENFIELD: This is John McCain's night. He is the featured speaker. He was the person who injected genuine uncertainty into the primary process that was supposed to be, in his words, a Bush coronation. But that campaign effectively ended March 7th.
So, Bill Schneider, what remains of the McCain phenomenon? Is there a political impact of the senator's role even now and into the fall?
SCHNEIDER: No question, it was the biggest story this year. But as they say in Hollywood, does this story have legs? Well, where are the voters? Two-thirds of Republicans have a favorable opinion of John McCain, but so do a majority of Democrats and independents, which is why some Republicans didn't trust him. Why did McCain become such a sensation? Here's a clue.
The name of his bus, the Straight Talk Express -- straight talk, that's exactly what a lot of voters were looking for. Why? Because they didn't think they were getting it from Bill Clinton. What are the most memorable things Clinton has said? "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." "I didn't inhale." "It depends on what the meaning of is, is."
McCain argued that the Republican Party cannot win simply as a conservative party. It has to offer something more. He wanted to turn it into a reform party. But McCain's argument goes up in smoke if Bush wins. But he still has to play the good soldier -- or make that the good sailor, because he was actually in the Navy -- if he wants to have a future in the Republican Party.
SHAW: Well, to play the good sailor, he's got to have troops in ranks marching lock step as he supports George Bush. Let's look some of these McCain delegates in the eye -- down on the floor, John King.
KING: Bernie, I'm standing in the Wyoming delegation. This is Dick Cheney country -- but standing here with the one McCain delegate in the Wyoming delegation, Clark Stith. Clark has been telling us that he was never involved in presidential politics before, never active in a campaign before. He was in this campaign for John McCain.
Clark, tell us why.
CLARK STITH, WYOMING DELEGATION: John, the American people need to have confidence in their government. And it's only when we break the iron triangle of money, legislation and lobbyists that we'll be able to have confidence in our government. And that's why I believe campaign finance reform is so important.
KING: Are you concerned now that Governor Bush has not put campaign finance reform atop his agenda, and that the McCain voters like yourself, and perhaps those not as closely affiliated with the Republican Party, might stay home or look elsewhere in November?
STITH: Well, I believe that issue is confidence in government. And with Governor Bush, Dick Cheney, and Colin Powell at the helm, I believe Americans will have confidence in the government.
KING: What is your sense of the commitment of the governor to that specific issue, though: campaign finance reform?
STITH: Well, I hope he has the power to make it a priority upon getting in the White House. It's not something he campaigned upon, but I believe it's something he could evolve toward.
KING: The state where John McCain put this issue on the map and first stunned Governor Bush was New Hampshire of course. Senator McCain launched his presidential effort with a big win in the New Hampshire delegation -- over in the New Hampshire delegation, our Frank Sesno.
SESNO: Thanks, John.
And boy, they haven't forgotten John McCain in this delegation. He trounced George W. Bush in New Hampshire. I'm with two delegates here. They are McCain delegates: Kathy Flora, a state representative; also, Richard Brothers. You're also a McCain delegate and a state representative.
Cathy, let me start with you. You signed a piece of paper, your delegation today, what was that about?
KATHY FLORA, NEW HAMPSHIRE DELEGATION: This morning we had to give our votes to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Sunday night, Senator McCain released his delegates. My heart, when I came here, still was tied to Senator McCain. When he released us, we all came on board with George W. Bush.
SESNO: Little difficult today signing that piece of paper?
FLORA: It was tough, but I wanted to pull together with my delegation at the same time. Senator McCain want would that from us.
SESNO: Richard, you are a very strong McCain backer. Do you see enough of a footprint here?
RICHARD BROTHERS, NEW HAMPSHIRE DELEGATION: Well, John McCain set our hearts on fire in New Hampshire. Those embers are still burning pretty brightly. We'll support George Bush, because that is what John McCain has asked us to do. But we will forever love John McCain.
SESNO: And you were telling me a little while ago that, among some Republican in New Hampshire, they are not forgetting -- and they may not come November, either.
FLORA: There are some Republicans that I have spoken to in my home town of Bedford, who are telling me they are going to write in John McCain. We can't seem to shake it. There was a passion in New Hampshire. There still is a passion for reform in New Hampshire. And a lot of it has to do with that man.
SESNO: How are they going to vote?
FLORA: They may write in John McCain.
SESNO: In the general election -- very interesting.
Cathy Flora, Richard, thanks very much.
Let's go across the floor to Jeanne Meserve -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Frank, thank you.
With me is Chris Healy. He was field director for the McCain effort in Connecticut. Chris, I can't help but notice you still have McCain buttons here on your shirt. Does that signify that your loyalty is still with John McCain?
CHRIS HEALY, CONNECTICUT DELEGATION: No, it's just a sign of respect. All McCain delegates are committed to George Bush. And we're committed to working just as hard for him as we did for John McCain and his platform.
MESERVE: A lot of voters in Connecticut and elsewhere had real passion for McCain during the primary season. Can that sort of passion be easily transferred to George Bush?
HEALY: Absolutely. I mean, John McCain did this party and this country a great service. Five million people respond to that message. I believe those same five million are being -- just as working hard for George Bush's reform program, because Al Gore is a clear and present danger. We're working today. We're going to be there for him in November.
MESERVE: Chris Healy, thanks so much for joining. And now, back up to the booth.
SHAW: Thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve.
And you, Cindy McCain, were just smiling and empathizing with these people you obviously know down there on the floor just interviewed by our intrepid floor correspondents.
CINDY MCCAIN, WIFE OF JOHN MCCAIN: They're all good friends of ours. They're very good friends.
SHAW: Now, let's be up front. You say that you support George Bush.
C. MCCAIN: Absolutely.
SHAW: But is John McCain the better man?
C. MCCAIN: The primary process and the decision of the voters, the Republican voters, made the decision to put George W. Bush as the nominee, and we support, because we're a part of the process, and we respect the primary process. But, I mean, as his wife and my heart, I'm sure you understand where I come from.
WOODRUFF: What are the delegates saying to you, Cindy McCain, when you talk to these people who originally were supporting him? What are they saying to you about the fact that somebody else is going to get this nomination?
C. MCCAIN: People are very supportive. Hundreds and thousands of people came up to me and said, we loved job that you did, we respect everything that you did, you did a great job, we loved your message of reform. Thank you for what you did, and I really appreciate that, because that's part of what this process is about, and that's part of the message that we try to portray during the campaign.
WOODRUFF: Do you want them to vote for him in November as it looks like they may be?
C. MCCAIN: Absolutely. We've spoken to all of those people personally, and asked them personally to please cast their vote for George Bush.
GREENFIELD: But it was interesting, Mrs. McCain, it wasn't only that you were smiling and nodding, I mean, when that New Hampshire delegate said, "We'll always love John McCain," Literally, I think your heart jumped.
And my question really is, and I'm asking it personally, because I'm an intrusive journalist. I know you're on board for George W. Bush, there's no question.
C. MCCAIN: Yes.
GREENFIELD: But how hard is it, after those months when the dark horse campaign suddenly came afire in New Hampshire, when there was absolutely a possibility that your husband would be standing there Thursday, how hard is it to look them in the eye, understand political reality, and tell these people who love your husband, it's just not going to happen this time.
C. MCCAIN: Well, we did that on Sunday when we released our delegates, as you saw in the clips, the first time my husband, and I became choked up was that day, and that's because we looked at all the people in the room, and they are our friends and were our friends, and it's hard because in a way we felt like perhaps we had disappointed them. I know we didn't. We worked very hard, and they worked doubly hard for us, and so it was a team effort.
SHAW: Cindy McCain, our viewers might not know it, but you are a fine tactician. Let's go back to the campaign trail. When did you strategically realize that if you'd done one or two things differently, you would be here, at what point? And I'm thinking about not just front-loading, I'm thinking about money, for example. When did you and your husband realize, gosh, if we had done that?
C. MCCAIN: We had a friend the other day, a close friend, someone asked him the same question that you're asking me tonight, and I hadn't really thought about it until then, and I agreed at the time. He said, if I had been you, I would have started earlier, I would have gotten out there announced prior to September. Hindsight is always 20/20. And in our case, we did everything we thought was right, and I think we ran a great race, and we're happy with what happened and we're happy with what came out of it.
WOODRUFF: Do you still want your husband to be president? Let me ask it this way -- do you think he may still -- is he open to the idea of running again?
C. MCCAIN: You know, we haven't thought about that. We've come through a very tough year, and now we're going to complete the year and hopefully elect a Republican president. Our goal is to elect a Republican. We want to keep the House, we want to keep the Senate, we certainly want to take back the White House, and most importantly, we want to continue our message of reform, and we want to continue what we believe is the correct course, and that is to bring dignity and decency back to the White House.
WOODRUFF: But the party is about to nominate a candidate who does not agree on the most central issue, campaign finance reform?
C. MCCAIN: Well, as my husband said, he's never going to be Miss Congeniality in the Senate. My husband will never give up the issue of reform...
WOODRUFF: Or Mr. Congeniality.
C. MCCAIN: Yes, Mr. Congeniality, excuse, me, John.
GREENFIELD: There's also something, I think, that's happened to Mrs. McCain. You became the chairman of the Arizona delegation. You threw the votes at George Bush. You've become, if I can say it, a presence in the political scene, that some spouses like, and some just as soon live in a cave. Has this whetted your appetite for a more public role in your own right?
C. MCCAIN: What's it's whetted my appetite for is to help my husband and advise my husband the best I can. Up until this race, I really had not been involved at all, because I have small children. And my most important role now is to tell him what I think, with regards to where he wants to go, and I don't know where that is. I think he's very happy in the Senate. He obviously stirs things up continually, and he enjoys that, because he believes in the message. I don't know what he's going to do. He's not talking about it.
GREENFIELD: No, I'm asking what you are going to do.
C. MCCAIN: Oh, what I'm going to do?
GREENFIELD: Whether Cindy McCain might find herself on the ballot a couple years from now.
C. MCCAIN: No. No. I have no intention of doing that. I have four children, and I want to make sure they're good kids. SHAW: I'm curious about what you think about what's going on. President Clinton's been saying certain things about Governor Bush and referring to his being the son of the former president of the United States, and George Bush, the president, indicated to Larry King and elsewhere, that, hey, he's had enough, and that if President Clinton doesn't knock it off, former President Bush is going to start talking, and what he's saying, what he's implying is, if you keep attacking my son, I'm going to talk about Monica Lewinsky. Should he?
C. MCCAIN: No, and I don't think, personally, I do not think the president should be doing that either. I -- it's time that we take politics out of the gutter. People as you can see on this floor and all across the country, certainly by the people that we met, they're interested in issues. They want to see what both parties have to offer. We're going to turn all of these young people that we've encouraged back into the fold, and away, if this continues, and if it gets down and dirty, and it really hope it doesn't.
SHAW: And we're going to let you get down on the floor.
C. MCCAIN: Thank you.
SHAW: Cindy McCain, thanks very much for coming up here and talking us.
WOODRUFF: Because your husband will be speaking in a little more than two hours from now.
C. MCCAIN: He is.
SHAW: Thanks again.
WOODRUFF: Thank you very much. Great to see you.
GREENFIELD: We have a potential development to report to you on the floor, that may be one of the first wrinkles in this smooth convention. In a few moments, Representative John Kolbe of -- Jim Kolbe of Arizona, the only openly gay Republican Congressman may be set to speak.
John King is with Texas delegation reporting that there may be some waters roiled by this -- John.
KING: That's right, Jeff, quite bit of controversy, kind of like just in the Texas delegation, but among some of the conservative grassroots activists in the Republican Party upset that this ultimately gay member of Congress will address convention tonight. There was talk of perhaps staging a walkout. We're told that will not happen here in the Texas delegation, but Chuck Anderson, who's the executive director of the Texas Christian Coalition is with us.
No walkout tonight, Chuck, but what do you expect to see when Congressman Kolbe speaks in a short time?
CHUCK ANDERSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHRISTIAN COALITION: Well, John, I think that people will express their own personal opinions in a very private and reserved manner. We may see a couple people sitting in their seat and praying quietly. But I don't think that Congressman Kolbe is the issue here by any means. I think issue is that people are supportive of a traditional family, and they want strong moral direction for our country, but congressman Kolbe is not issue here by any means.
KING: You're governor, George W. Bush is in charge of this convention. Are you disappointed in him that they have allowed an openly gay Congressman to address a Republican convention.
ANDERSON: I think that what folks are really going to see from this is the fact that Congressman Kolbe has his three minutes in the national and international spotlight, and he's not talking about the homosexual agenda, but what he's talking about is free trade and something that brings the party together, something that will really unite the party and put forward a very good message to the election folks in the fall.
KING: We're told that when there was a bit a talk of a walkout perhaps last night that some of the leaders of your delegation came to some of the actors and said, you know, that would embarrass Governor Bush. Is there another way to do this? Tell us that worked out.
ANDERSON: No. I did not see or anything along those lines. I think, again, that folks are going to express their own individual conscience, and they'll do it in a very reserved and private manner, and it should be something that should go through real quickly in three minutes, and we're on to another story after that.
KING; All right. We'll watching that is that plays out, Congressman Jim Kolbe of Arizona. And we should mention, right across the aisle is the Arizona delegation. Of course there was competition there in the primary, Senator McCain's state, Governor Bush's state. The Arizona delegation assuring us, that if there is any sort of visible protest here in Texas, that they will respond in kind, and show their support for Congressman Jim Kolbe.
Back to you are in the booth.
GREENFIELD: Thank you, John. This issue has kind of flickered on and off throughout the primary. You'll remember that George Bush wouldn't meet with the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay organization, that met with other Republicans. More recently, there's been a question about the sexual orientation of the daughter of Dick Cheney, the vice president.
And we now go to Jeanne Meserve, who's with someone who has been very involved in this social debate -- Jeanne, to you.
MESERVE: Jeff, with me now is the Reverend Jerry Falwell. We've just heard that the members of the Texas delegation may stage something of a silent protest during Jim Kolbe's speech tonight, because he is a homosexual. Is that appropriate in your mind.
REV. JERRY FALWELL, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: I think not. I think that -- he's not speaking, by the way on homosexuality; he's speaking on trade, I believe. But I wouldn't be surprised if in this convention and in the Democratic convention, there might be an adulterer that speaks as well. And whether heterosexual or homosexual, while as a Christian, I believe homosexuality is a sin, I do not believe that God rejects any individual. This is a political party, not a church, and as long as they wish to be members and they're elected and are asked by the governor, the candidate who speaks, we should respect the governor's wishes.
MESERVE: You know there are people who will here you utter these words, and say you are simply taking this line in the interest of party unity to get George W. Bush elected. Is that what you're doing?
FALWELL: That is not true. Back in October, I invited 200 gays and lesbians to come to Lynchburg, Virginia to sit down with 200 of us at Thomas Road Church to discuss not the rightness or wrongness of the act -- we believe it is sin, they believe it is not -- we talked about violence and how to assuage violence. I believe that we can learn to be civil, and lower the rhetoric, and eliminate the violence, and respect one another without changing or compromising our Christian views.
I have always believed that all sex acts outside of marriage between a man and woman is sin. But I will always try love and respect everyone. Jesus did.
MESERVE: And you will always believe that the homosexual act is also a sin?
FALWELL: Yes, the Bible is very clear about homosexuality and sin. But God loves the sinner. That's how I got in.
MESERVE: And in politics, you will forgive?
FALWELL: In politics -- a matter of fact, unless we learn how to live the life of forgiveness, we're not going to get along with anybody, because we are all sinners.
MESERVE: Reverend Jerry Falwell, thanks so much for joining us here on the floor.
Now we're going to go back to the booth.
WOODRUFF: And right back to Candy Crowley -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Judy.
I'm here with David Catania who is a D.C. councilman.
DAVID CATANIA, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DELEGATION: That's right, councilman at-large.
CROWLEY: Republican, openly gay -- we've been talking about this for a couple of days now. I asked you the other day what was hardest in the District of Columbia, to be a Republican or to be openly gay.
CATANIA: To be Republican -- we have, of the electorate, it's 7 percent Republican, 78 Democratic. I mean, it's 11 to 1 odds. And I tell you, you have to work harder, smarter, faster, quicker. But in the end, it is my greatest honor to serve as an at-large member of the city council, and I'm very proud to do that.
CROWLEY: Now, you have got Congressman Kolbe up here today...
CROWLEY: ... speaking from the platform. What does that say to you about your Republican Party?
CATANIA: Well, when we met with Governor Bush in April, we asked him, we said: Look, we want an openly gay speaker to send a message. And that message is that you really do want us as a part of your party and a part of this nation. And he said absolutely. And the fact that Congressman Kolbe is here tonight, speaking as he is, as a leader on the issues of trade, as a nationally known expert on subject, is very inspiring to me, frankly.
I didn't I think would see that this year. I thought we would hear a good language, but I didn't think we would see it. I'm thrilled that he is here. It sends a terrific message that the party is slowly making progress. To be sure, there are still many obstacles that this party has to overcome with respect its gay and lesbian members and citizens.
CROWLEY: Now, let me ask you. We are hearing that there may be some quiet protests: people bowing their heads, that sort of thing, in protest. What does that say to you about the convention here, the delegates here?
CATANIA: Well, I think it's a growing minority, and I think we are on the right side of history. Although they're against some anti- gay elements of this platform, in the governor's original submission, those elements weren't in there. He didn't want them in there. He was overridden by the platform committee. On the positive side of that is, they were close votes. You know, four years ago, it was 80 to 20. Now it's 60 to 40.
We are on the right side of history. And, you know, it is regrettable people won't listen to, you know, a respected leader on this subject. If they choose not to, it's their business. He is there for the right reasons and I'm proud of it.
CROWLEY: Thanks so much.
CATANIA: Thank you.
CROWLEY: David Catania, D.C. City Council.
Judy, back to you.
WOODRUFF: All right, Candy, I think we are getting a sense of one issue, that has not -- not only not gone away, it's very much a raw issue for a number of Republicans. What you are watching right now is the so-called rolling roll call. The Republicans decided this year -- for variety of reasons -- but mainly because they want to stretch this thing out, to do some of the roll call last night, some tonight, some tomorrow night. And right now, we are in the state of Michigan. Should we listen in for some of this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... casting all 58 votes for Governor George W. Bush. Michigan casts 58 votes for Governor George W. Bush.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Minnesota 34. Minnesota, 34.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, from the great state of Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes and one goofy governor...
GREENFIELD: We've got the (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that this fall, Minnesota voters will choose a Republican for president for the first time in 28 years. Paraphrasing our home-town rock star, Bob Dylan, in Minnesota, the times they are a'changing. So it is with great pleasure that Minnesota's delegation casts 33 votes for George W. Bush, one for Alan Keyes. The next -- George W. Bush being the next president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Minnesota casts 33 votes for Governor George W. Bush and one vote for Alan Keyes.
WOODRUFF: I think most Americans were not alive the last time Minnesota cast a vote -- voted Republican in a presidential race.
GREENFIELD: It was Richard Nixon in 1972. Some of them were alive. Some of us were alive.
WOODRUFF: Well, I'd say half of America probably wasn't.
GREENFIELD: Is that is great moment
SHAW: You realize that vote is going to be played again and again and then ad nauseam.
GREENFIELD: I believe it's...
WOODRUFF: A goofy governor.
GREENFIELD: Jesse Ventura, the independent...
WOODRUFF: Reform Party.
GREENFIELD: ... highly independent governor and former wrestler.
WOODRUFF: All right, as we watch this roll call under way in all of its glory, we are going to take a break. But when we come back, the gentleman sitting here with us, the mayor of New York City -- we are not going to tell you his name. We know you know who he is. We will tell when he comes back. Of course, it's Rudy Giuliani. And, we are going to be hearing in about 20 minutes from the Arizona Congressman Jim Kolbe.
All of that and much more -- we'll be right back.
GREENFIELD: The Republican candidate in the nation's most watched Senate race tried to keep a low profile in this convention city. Today, Rick Lazio visited with delegates from his home state of New York and attended a fund-raiser. But Hillary Rodham Clinton's Senate rival is not -- not -- scheduled to make a convention appearance during his one-day trip to Philadelphia. Lazio says his job is back in New York, running against Mrs. Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICK LAZIO (R-NY), SENATE CANDIDATE: Our challenge in this campaign is to bring people together, to unify our state, to lift people up, to talk about what we could be, the kind of role model that we want for our children.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to be lectured for the next six years by Hillary Rodham Clinton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GREENFIELD: Joining us now, the man who thought he would be the opponent of Hillary Rodham Clinton until fate intervened, I think it's fair to say, the mayor of the city of New York, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: Good evening.
GREENFIELD: Good evening.
SHAW: Good evening.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
GREENFIELD: See, he is polite. His reputation obviously is...
We often forget that the personal sometimes trumps politics. You told us that when you decided not to run. Is there a sense that you still have that of unfairness at what has happened to you?
GIULIANI: No, not at all.
GREENFIELD: Do you wish you were in the battle?
GIULIANI: No, I'm very comfortable with the decision that I made. It was the right decision for me, given the health concerns and everything else, and I think Rick Lazio has stepped in and is doing an absolutely terrific job.
Tonight, I did a fund-raiser with him, and one of the reporters asked me, do you feel nostalgic about not being in the Senate race and do you feel that maybe you'd like to be there? And I said he's doing a lot better job than I could ever do.
So no, I don't -- you know, you make decisions and you move on.
SHAW: He was sitting in the same seat 2 1/2 hours ago on "INSIDE POLITICS," and we asked him about the polls and what have you. He's seven points on top. Is he going to continue that?
SHAW: Or is the race going to tighten?
GIULIANI: Well, I think it's essentially going to be the same race that I was involved in, and it's going to be very close. And I think he's going to win it. And I'll tell you why I think he's going to win it, the same reason I thought I would win it: She's not from New York. That's a powerful issue, and it's a much more powerful issue than people realize, because they focus just on New York City, and they don't remember that when Bobby Kennedy won, and he wasn't from New York, Lyndon Johnson won it for him by winning by a million- four, a million-two, million-two. Right.
GIULIANI: And I'm convinced to this day, if -- if Lyndon Johnson weren't on the ticket, Ken Keating would have one that race. And I traveled all throughout the state of New York, and the anger that she's trying to usurp a Senate seat from a state that she has no connection with, no knowledge of, no involvement with, and there's no rationale for running.
SHAW: So you're saying...
GIULIANI: There's no -- there's no issue. She's not running in order to reform this or change this or change that. He has a much more...
WOODRUFF: But she would take issue with you about that...
GIULIANI: I know, I know.
WOODRUFF: ... and she would say there are a number of things she (UNINTELLIGIBLE) change.
GIULIANI: You're asking me -- you're asking me what -- why New York, what's the connection? This man has represented New York in the United States Congress for a number of years. He has a record. He comes from New York. He was born here.
SHAW: You're saying that Al Gore is not going to have any down- ballot pull.
GIULIANI: I figure it's going to be a lot closer than -- than, you know, the Lyndon Johnson race was. Lyndon Johnson, Barry Goldwater -- come on. It's got to be a lot closer between Al Gore and Governor Bush.
I mean, I think Governor Bush has a chance of winning New York. I was just with Mrs. Reagan; I remember that Ronald Reagan won New York, because I worked for him, twice. And won it big actually in one of the elections.
But even if it doesn't come out that way, this is going to be a lot closer election than 2.4 million on one side.
WOODRUFF: But Mayor, look at this -- the platform of this party. Now, granted, there are changes in education that Governor Bush lobbied for, some other changes in the platform. But when it comes to some crucial issues to American -- particularly American women, many American women, who happen to be pro-choice, this platform is very strongly anti-abortion, very strongly anti-gay rights.
WOODRUFF: These are some of the issues that matter to some of the New Yorkers...
GIULIANI: Rick Lazio...
WOODRUFF: Is that not going...
GIULIANI: Well, in many ways Rick Lazio can say, vote for me because I stand up for what I believe in, even against the wishes of my party. Rick Lazio is pro-choice. Rick Lazio is pro-gay rights. And you know, you want a party -- if you want the Republican Party to change, right, if you want to move it in that direction, then you need to have people in it like me, like Rick Lazio, like George Pataki, and maybe over a period of time, you'll see that platform broaden.
But if you -- if you basically say, we're not going to -- we're not going to treat a Republican who's pro-choice the same way as we treat a Democrat, then that's never going to happen.
GREENFIELD: But there's a broader problem, isn't there, one you would have faced, too? Come the fall, those uncertain Democrats that are going to be thrown off with Trent Lott, Dick Armey, the conservative Republicans, not on necessarily social issues, but all those issues where New York tends to be, Republican and Democrat, more to the middle, more to liberal than the country. How does Rick Lazio argue against the fact that if he's a senator, he's going to help make Trent Lott the next majority leader?
GIULIANI: I think what he says is unless we want to keep losing hundreds of millions -- hundreds of millions of dollars -- I'd say probably about 500-600 million this year alone we need representation in the majority party.
Just think of what it's going to like if Hillary Clinton has to knock on Trent Lott's door to get something for New York. It isn't going to happen. I know that as mayor of New York City. A big difference when a Republican senator represents the state.
And you know this being from New York, we've mostly had a Republican and a Democratic senator. It's been rare that we've had two Republicans and pretty rare we have two Democrats.
So I think there's a very logical, strong argument for Rick that we need representation in the majority party if we don't want to be a state that's treated in a disproportionately, in a harsh way.
SHAW: You mentioned the first lady. You were a reception for Nancy Reagan.
GIULIANI: First lady Nancy Reagan
SHAW: What was she saying, how did she look? What was the atmosphere?
GIULIANI: Well, I -- I had the great honor last year of giving the annual lecture at the Ronald Reagan Library, and I worked in President Reagan's administration. And he's -- he's one of my heroes, and I think she's just a wonderful woman the way that she's supported him, and particularly now. I mean, your heart goes out to her, and to him, when you think of, you know, what she's doing for him to try to help him and ease the difficult situation they're going through.
She's a wonderful woman.
WOODRUFF: We can't let you go without asking about your own health. You look hale. You look hearty. But we do know that you were diagnosed with prostate cancer. How are the treatments going?
GIULIANI: They're going well. I mean, sometimes I'm a little more fatigued than usual, but one of the things my doctor has done for me is to make sure that I exercise every day. And when you deal with, all of a sudden you deal with cancer, then the exercising you used to do, and then you stopped doing it, and used to do and stop doing it, now I do it every day, 45 minutes.
SHAW: But you have no doubt about...
GIULIANI: Lift weights. Make sure I do aerobic exercises.
SHAW: But you have no doubt about finishing out your term, do you?
GIULIANI: NO, I have no doubt about it. I'm going to finish out my term. And one of the things that -- I mean, one of the consolation prizes -- and it's more than that -- is that it got an extra year and half as mayor of New York City, which is a job that I absolutely love. I mean, it's a -- it's a passion for me. So, that was the upside of it.
GREENFIELD: We want to give you another job, at least for the next minute. We want you to listen to our analyst Stu Rothenberg, who knows the House and Senate races like you know the New York Yankees. Let him give you an analysis of this race, and then you get the last word us on.
Stu Rothenberg, what do you think?
STU ROTHENBERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it looks to me as though this race is going to be a toss-up right down to the wire. Yes, the polls right now show Rick Lazio with a slight lead, but I think next week the race could be even again.
It looks to me as though the race is going to be a referendum on Mrs. Clinton, and if it is, she's in big trouble. But I have a question for the mayor. I'd like to know that if he were Rick Lazio, would he want to campaign with George W. Bush in the state of New York?
GIULIANI: Yes. I mean he would want to do that, but mostly, he'd want to campaign as an independent: in other words, as an independent voice for New York, a Republican but somebody's who's going to be able to stand up for New York, agree with his political party when it helps New York, but be willing to disagree with his political party as he does on choice, gay rights and elsewhere where that's in the best interests of New York.
So I think, you know, you have to take into account the fact that it's a 3-2 Democratic state, and a Republican just has to be broader- based. And I think there's nothing wrong in Rick doing it.
SHAW: Is this race going to get nastier?
GIULIANI: Every race gets nastier.
GREENFIELD: Spoken like a true New Yorker.
GIULIANI: Come on, it is New York, and you know -- but that's true of every place.
WOODRUFF: Do you -- do you feel at home at a convention like this, where so many of the delegates are clearly...
GIULIANI: I do.
WOODRUFF: ... much more convention than...
GIULIANI: I travel -- I wouldn't have four years ago. I traveled to 24 states on behalf of the Republican Party in 1998, raising money. I got to know most of these people. They're now friends. And I really do believe in this -- in the idea of a broad tent. We can disagree, we can disagree about a lot of things, but we really believe that America needs four more years without Clinton and Gore.
WOODRUFF: New York, New York voting.
SHAW: Your state is voting.
GIULIANI: All right, yes.
SHAW: But you just said something that was fascinating. You said four years ago you would not have felt comfortable.
GIULIANI: Well, I didn't know as many people. I didn't mean on policies and politics...
GIULIANI: I meant on a personal -- on a personal level...
WOODRUFF: Because you...
GIULIANI: I can walk around here. It took me longer to get here because I saw so many people that I went and campaigned with, went and worked with, and even people where there were disagreements on some fundamental issues. We agree on foreign policy, we agree on smaller government, we agree that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney can refocus the foreign policy United States and rebuild the military. And those are the most important issues.
SHAW: What are you whispering into Lazio's ear day in and day out?
GIULIANI: Basically, he's -- I think he's done it right. I think it's what I said before: You've got to project that you're going to be an independent voice for New York, that you're not going to be -- you're going to be a Republican. You're going to have basic, core Republican principles, but where you have to disagree for the benefit of the state or the city, you're going to be willing to do that. And I think Rick has to project that, and he will.
WOODRUFF: Well, you've just missed participating in the state of New York...
GIULIANI: No, I cast...
WOODRUFF: You've already cast your...
GIULIANI: I cast my vote for George W. Bush a long time ago.
WOODRUFF: Are you a delegate?
GIULIANI: Yes, I am.
WOODRUFF: We assume you're a delegate.
GIULIANI: Yes, I am. I'm a delegate.
WOODRUFF: Well, we'll let you go back.
SHAW: Mr. Mayor...
GIULIANI: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
GIULIANI: Thank you very much.
SHAW: More to come.
WOODRUFF: Much more.
WOODRUFF: Some very special people in the Republican Party are going to be honored this evening, and our Wolf Blitzer is at the podium right now with one of them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Judy, we're down actually on the floor for this special guest, the former president of the United States, Gerald Ford, who will be honored this evening, together with former President Reagan, former President Bush. How do you feel about all of this?
GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, both Betty and I are really overcome, Wolf, because we have such wonderful memories of our term in the White House, short as it was, but the opportunity to do things constructively at home and abroad, well, coming here tonight brings back all those great, great memories.
BLITZER: Tell us what you think about this Republican candidate?
FORD: Which -- well, I'm all for George W., I was from the very beginning, and of course Dick Cheney is an old-time friend of mine. He worked for me as chief of staff when I was president. He did a superb job in the Defense Department during the Persian Gulf War. He ran and served in the Congress. He's got an outstanding career in public service. I think he'll add tremendously to the Bush election campaign and will be a first-class vice president when they win.
BLITZER: Are you surprised by the criticism leveled against Dick Cheney since he got the phone call from the governor of Texas?
FORD: I'm very bothered by it, Wolf, because both Gore and Cheney served in the Congress together for six years. They had identical voting records on gun control. They had almost identical voting records on abortion, and you would think that Cheney was a bad guy and Gore was a good person, when their votes recording were very similar.
BLITZER: Today, President Clinton was very outspoken in criticizing the Republican presidential candidate. Is that appropriate during this convention?
FORD: I never campaigned that way. When Jimmy Carter and I had a head-to-head contest for the presidency, we never got personal. I think it's unfortunate and wrong for President Clinton to get into this kind of a sharpshooting attack.
BLITZER: How did you like last night, the first night, General Powell and Mrs. Laura Bush?
FORD: They were a terrific team on the television. Of course, I think Colin Powell is going to be, I hope, a good secretary of defense, secretary of state. And Laura, what a fine first lady.
BLITZER: What about his remarks urging Republicans to be more inclusive towards African-Americans, other minorities, and to maybe rethink the position of many of these Republicans on affirmative action?
FORD: Well, I think the party, as a whole, should follow Colin Powell's advice. That's the theme I've been preaching all the time in my 28 1/2 years in the House, and 2 1/2 years in the White House. We have to be the party to cover all minorities -- black, ethnic and so forth. So I'm for the advice that Colin Powell gave and I hope Bush and Cheney will follow.
BLITZER: And so you're hopeful that this new face of the Republican Party will prevail?
FORD: I hope it will, and I'm going to do all I can to make sure it does prevail.
BLITZER: Mr. President, it's always good to speak to you. And I know this is an evening that they will be paying tribute to you. Congratulations and give our best to Mrs. Ford as well.
FORD: Thank you very much, Wolf. Thank you. Always nice to be with you.
BLITZER: Thank you so much, sir. Back to you in the booth.
SHAW: Originally, former first lady Nancy Reagan reluctant to come to this convention in Philadelphia, but friends said perhaps she should, and she said OK, I'll come and I'll represent my husband. She's just arrived here. WOODRUFF: We see her there with her daughter, Maureen Reagan, and the former first lady is being escorted into the First Union Center here in Philadelphia, presumably to make her way to one of the VIP seats, where she will not only be able to see what's going on, she will be seen by the most of the 2000-some delegates.
GREENFIELD: And remember, in the last contested Republican convention between Ford and Reagan, interestingly, we had Gerry Ford and Nancy. In 1976, they were dueling would-be first ladies. Betty Ford would come into the hall, the Ford delegates would cheer. Nancy Reagan would come into the hall, and the Reagan delegates would cheer.
WOODRUFF: I have to say, well, I know we've moved on and that was a fascinating interview that Wolf had with former President Gerald Ford. While all that was going on, they were showing a pretty remarkable video on all the screens up there, quick cuts of Governor Bush And Mrs. Bush clowning, acting cute. At one point, he was making little finger signs with -- it was really cute.
SHAW: But what really bowled me over is that you hear Aretha Franklin singing, and the delegates are going like this.
WOODRUFF: The music, Bernie, is straight out of a Democratic convention. By the way...
GREENFIELD: Where is "Up with People" when we need them?
SHAW: ... you talked about the duel of the former first ladies. When Mrs. Reagan enters this hall, we will show that to you. Also, we'll let you see the reaction of these Republican delegates.
GREENFIELD: But right now, we want to go down to the Texas delegation and John King to show you an example of how the Bush campaign responds to the slightest sign of potential trouble -- John.
KING: Well, Jeff, for the first time here, we have seen evidence of the whip operation in place on the floor here. As we reported a bit earlier, there are some worries that in the Texas delegation and perhaps elsewhere, some conservatives might do some sort of a protest during remarks about -- a few minutes away from Congressman Jim Kolbe of Arizona. He is an openly gay member of Congress, and we have here these orange caps. These are the whips. They're on the floor to keep order, to run messages back and forth to the delegation. Now we see more than a dozen of them surrounding the entire Texas delegation. The leaders tell us it's just in case. They don't expect any big trouble here. They expect a silent protest by some of the Texas delegates, but they're hear just in case to keep order on the floor. Again, this, the governor's campaign people, the whip operation, designed to make sure all goes as the candidate wants here on the convention floor.
Back to you.
WOODRUFF: Most of the hats that we see in the Texas delegation, though, are those white 10-gallon numbers that you see the delegates waving back and forth. GREENFIELD: And having heard our report, those orange hats have now been removed from the heads of the Bush whip operation to say these guys are too knit is a great understatement.
SHAW: Walkie-talkies, they really are coordinated, really coordinated.
WOODRUFF: I see a couple of them still on.
SHAW: Word goes out very, very quickly.
GREENFIELD: We're awaiting for the arrival of Representative Kolbe. Let's go to the podium.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Strengthening our role in the world, he does this through the strong ties of international trade -- please join me in welcoming my friend and colleague, the great Congressman Jim Kolbe from the state of Arizona.
KING: You can see some of the delegates here in the Texas delegation with their hats down over their heart, their eyes closed in prayer, this, their way of registering their objections to Governor Bush having an openly gay congressman speak at this convention, a very muted protest, but you can see perhaps 15-20 percent of the Texas delegation, most of them identified with the group the Republican National Committee for Life. That is an antiabortion, conservative, grassroots organization. They have either put their hats on their chest or opened their hats and put them on their lap, and have their eyes closed in prayer, their heads bowed, most of them.
REP. JIM KOLBE (R), ARIZONA: As well as our products. Sharing America's freedom and democracy with the world. Trade is an engine of growth and a source of high-wage jobs. And today, trade is equal to 30 percent of our domestic economy. It supports 12 million American jobs.
KOLBE: But there's more work to be done. Over 95 percent of the world's consumers live outside the borders of the United States, mostly in countries that restrict access to their markets and their ports. America suffers when markets are closed to the fruits of our labor.
While I commend Vice President Gore for his support of extending normal trade relations to China on a permanent basis, we need George W. Bush's strong leadership, to enforce the agreement, stand tough against the Chinese government, and make it fair for American working families.
KOLBE: Our nation has looked to open new markets and encourage new partners, but the current administration is failing American workers.
WOODRUFF: Just to reiterate, we're listening to very brief remarks from Arizona Congressman Jim Kolbe, the only openly gay Republican member of the House of Representatives. And in that picture in the lower left-hand corner of your screen, some members of the Texas delegation in a silent protest. One can understand why someone like Congressman Kolbe might be uncomfortable in a party where the platform that was just agreed on by the party this week rejects the traditional definition -- rather, accepts and promotes the traditional definition of marriage as the legal union of one man and one woman, and rejects, it says -- quote -- "giving sexual preference," and they don't use the word orientation, they say "sexual preference special legal protection or standing in law."
SHAW: This sign says "There is a way out." And John King with his splendid reporting telling us about the people in the orange caps -- John.
KING: Well, Bernie, those orange caps came off during our report as I believe you mentioned. They have a walkie-talkie operation, and they quickly took them off. They're monitoring our broadcast behind the podium, as well as everybody else's broadcast. This a very muted protest, but an obvious protests. There was talk last night among some of these the Christian conservative activists that they would walk out during this speech, but when word of that spread to the leaders of the Texas delegation, they quickly spoke to them not at the public delegate breakfast, but in small, behind-the-scenes conversations, we're told, and told them that a walkout of that sort would be very embarrassing to Governor Bush. Obviously, this is his home state delegation. So instead, these delegates, after talking among themselves all day, have decided to protest in silence, as soon as the Congressman began speaking, many of them, perhaps 20 percent, not quite a third of the Texas delegation, removing hats, putting them either in hats or against their chests.
You see many of the delegates with eyes closed and heads bowed in prayer as Congressman Kolbe speaks about a subject that has nothing to doe with his sexual orientation. He's speaking of course about trade, and at that sign you mentioned "There is a way out," right here at dead center in the Texas delegation here on the floor.
WOODRUFF: That's right, John. And we're glad you pointed that out. For all the discussion here about gay rights and the fact that this is the only openly gay Republican Congressman in the House of Representatives, what he was here to talk about tonight was the subject of trade, international trade.
WOODRUFF: And that phrase, that sign "There is a way out," is a reference, I believe, to many religious folks that they believe faith can lead someone from homosexuality to heterosexuality. That is something that is disputed by many folks in the gay community. But just goes to show how sometimes, here is the home state delegation of the nominee to be, and they just felt that this was a deep part of what they believe, and they wanted to express it, even if it even meant some embarrassment to George Bush.
WOODRUFF: That view disputed I think it's fair to say by most people in the gay...
SHAW: Well, from Desert Storm to the deck of the Battleship New Jersey, when CNN returns to Philadelphia and these Republicans in convention, General Norman Schwarzkopf in a stirring speech.
GREENFIELD: We don't want to make too much of this folks, but Bush...
WOODRUFF: Yes we do.
GREENFIELD: The Bush folks appear to have -- we put the orange hats on, because we said they took them off. I have a feeling we control the entire fashion of this convention for the next few days just by saying, ah-hah, we see the hats, take them off.
WOODRUFF: And they have 'W's on them. And we should point, they're not all orange.
GREENFIELD: The whips are mingling among the delegates, and which brings us to the discussion of delegates, the people who after all are supposed to be the ultimate authority of this convention. These delegates who gathered in Philadelphia have come from one end of the country to the other. But for some, this journey is especially long. And in one case, from rural Florida to the streets of Chicago and to a Republican Party some might think of as unlikely choice.
GERTRUDE JORDAN, ILLINOIS DELEGATE: Your toy box -- what did your mama do with your toys?
GREENFIELD (voice-over): At 67, Gertrude Jordan's life is full. She's a wife with three grown children and five grandchildren, who range in age from 6-26. She also has a great granddaughter.
At work, there is more than enough responsibility to fill her days.
JORDAN: I'm the director of the Department of Employment Security for the state of Illinois.
GREENFIELD: In one sense, Gertrude Jordan's story is familiar -- part of a decade's-long growth of a black middle class, finding in public employment the same ladder upward that others have climbed for a century. Beginning with a childhood far from Chicago's streets.
JORDAN: I'm originally from the south. I was raised in Pensacola, Florida. Prejudice is something I've known, I grew up in it. I worked in downtown Pensacola. Right next door to me was a Woolworth. I could never sit at the counter at Woolworth.
GREENFIELD: She grew up with a powerful mentor. After her mother died when Gertrude was 5, her grandmother became the most important influence in her life. JORDAN: She used to walk every day from her house through the swamp over to see after us. She would say things, you know, "Always try to do the right thing." "God is going to bless you." I still believe in those values that I learned from my grandmother.
GREENFIELD: Gertrude Jordan says it was these values that brought her into political life, and into the Republican Party.
JORDAN: Because I believe in a lot of the things that the Republican Party stands for. Family values, I believe in good ethics, I believe in the strong character.
GREENFIELD: She started volunteering for the party nearly 30 years ago. But it was Illinois Governor Jim Thompson who gave her, her first big task.
JORDAN: Governor Thompson asked me to open south side of Chicago in a predominantly minority neighborhood. I have made that commitment, and I have volunteers -- I mean, they work right with me night and day, we put out the flyers. Governor Thompson came for the opening day, and it was an exciting experience. That was my first experience.
GREENFIELD: Her volunteer work brought her to places she never dreamed of -- A meeting with President Bush, a ceremonial White House ceremony that featured President Reagan. She is proud that she's a delegate and about the work she's accomplishing back home.
JORDAN: I think it would kind of, like, be the icing on the cake to experience the convention and being a delegate, and also to be a part of nominating the next president of the United States. Politics are something that's with you from the day that you're born until the day that you die. There's no way you can get around politics. And if you're not involved, then you don't -- you can't control anything about you. Being involved makes a difference.
GREENFIELD: Down on the floor, Gertrude Jordan with Jeanne Meserve -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: She Joins me now. You were very excited about the prospect of coming to this convention. Has it lived up to your expectations?
JORDAN: Oh, more, more. I had no idea. First of all, I didn't know what to expect. I had no idea it was so exciting, it would be so exciting.
MESERVE: Are there some particular high points for you thus far?
JORDAN: Well, of course, Colin Powell's speech. I mean, last -- and Kate Smith, when she did the God Bless America, it was great.
MESERVE: What do you think of the party's efforts in this convention to reach out to African-Americans and persuade them to come to the Republican Party?
JORDAN: I think it's great. I think it has been going on for years, That's how come I'm here.
MESERVE: Is it going to work? Are African-Americans going to turn in large numbers, do you think, to the Republicans?
JORDAN: I don't think it's going to be in huge numbers, but I think it will increase the numbers, of course.
MESERVE: And are you all set to go out and work for the candidate?
MESERVE: What are you going to be doing for George W. Bush?
JORDAN: Everything and anything.
MESERVE: All right. Gertrude W. Jordan, thanks so much for joining us.
And now back to the booth.
SHAW: And, Jeanne Meserve, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Jim Nicholson, is about to introduce retired Army General Norman Schwarzkopf. He's not on land, he's not at sea, he is aboard ship -- he's on the decks of the most decorated battleship in U.S. Naval history, the U.S.S. New Jersey, and they're going to show a video, a New Jersey video, here in the hall, and then he's going to speak. He's going to talk about international relations, and he's going to talk about the state of this country's defense. Republicans have claimed that the national defense has deteriorated under the Clinton-Gore administration.
WOODRUFF: I think it's fair to say at a time when there aren't many military -- genuine military heroes in this country, because we haven't fought many wars lately, well, here's someone who comes out of having led the military as secretary of defense. Of course, that's a civilian position. This is Dick Cheney, of course, the vice presidential running mate for George W. Bush. But just on General Schwarzkopf, at a time when we don't have many military heroes, because we haven't fought big wars really, other than the Gulf, Desert Storm, the Gulf War about a decade ago, other than Vietnam, General Schwarzkopf qualifies as a hero.
GREENFIELD: As does John McCain. Colin Powell had two tours of combat duty in Vietnam. Norman Schwarzkopf served under civilian leadership of Dick Cheney, who was picked as vice president by the son of the president who commanded Operation Desert Storm. I think we see a kind of pattern here of what they are trying to tell us about the Republican party and leadership.
SHAW: Indeed. And by putting Cheney on the ticket, Governor Bush indicating that there's someone who can stand in should they go into the White House, and we're going to do something rather unusual, "LARRY KING LIVE" will come to you earlier tonight. And as General Schwarzkopf prepares to speak from the decks of the Battleship New Jersey, Commodore Larry King.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Thank you very much, guys. You deserve a little rest. They'll be returning. We got lots of excited things happening tonight, and before we see the video and hear from General Schwarzkopf, let's spend some moments and he'll be with us for a while with George Prescott Bush. Those names live forever. He's the son of Governor Jeb Bush. You're father arrived when?
GEORGE PRESCOTT BUSH, GEORGE W. BUSH NEPHEW: Just a few minutes ago. He was actually traveling around the convention floor saying hi to the different delegations.
KING: Why did you get so involved for your uncle?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Well, at the age of 23, when I was rounding out years of public high school teacher, I looked to all the presidential candidates, Democrat and Republican.
KING: You were open?
GEORGE P. BUSH: I was open, out of college, a free agent, as they say, and I definitely was astounded by uncle's record of accomplishment as it related to his record, and closing the achievement gap on the minority test scores that are proportionately lower across our country. His record in the state of Texas really was impressive. And for me being a relative and also believing in his message, it appealed to me, and I had this opportunity, so I couldn't pass it up.
KING: So you're saying the decision was, as best you could say it, objective?
GEORGE P. BUSH: It was.
KING: Had he been less than you thought, you would not have gotten involved?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Yes. I would be the first person to leave the campaign if I didn't believe in this message.
KING: Now for the youth -- I saw you addressing the youth today, right?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Yes.
KING: Are they getting involved in this message? Republicans never had great appeal with people your age.
GEORGE P. BUSH: That's true. But if the statistics or the recent polls are any indication, younger voters now are voting more Republican than ever, especially minority voters. You'd be surprised, especially among Latino, young voters, we're making serious inroads as far as the Republican Party is concerned. I think it's great to actually finally have a person at the top of the ticket who really appeals to younger people, who's talked about issues that face younger Americans, such as economic opportunities, college affordability, Social Security. These are all issues that face us, and he has a comprehensive plan to improve the situation.
KING: Maybe even as important, is he a good uncle?
GEORGE P. BUSH: He's a great uncle.
KING: You can have favorite uncles. Is he one of those guys that we liked it when uncle George came around?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Of course. You know, as owner of the Texas Rangers, I was able to score a few tickets with the Rangers. But in all seriousness, he's a really down to Earth guy, he's always there whenever I needed his counsel as it related to my own life, to my personal life, or to professional advice as well.
KING: Now, you are going to go to law school, right, at Southern Cal?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Yes.
KING: Does this whet your appetite enough so that we're going to see another Bush running for something?
GEORGE P. BUSH: To be honest with you, I really am not sure. I have so much in front of me. Law school can definitely change a person. Maybe one day have a family. You really do have to sacrifice a lot once you enter the arena of politics, but right now, I know one thing that I'm -- want to be a loyal advocate and help my uncle.
KING; Are you embarrassed by this stud appeal, you know? Here he comes, the Ricky Martin of the Republican Party?
GEORGE P. BUSH: I'm somewhat embarrassed. It's flattering, but I really do have a message. I've worked tirelessly on behalf of my uncle, and I really do believe in his message. But I also care about the Latino community and the issues that face our community, and I definitely want to continue to be involved with that.
KING: We're looking now at Governor Christie Todd Whitman of New Jersey. She was with us last Saturday night, with the vice presidential designate to be nominated officially the next couple of night, Dick Cheney, people greeting them. Nancy Reagan is in the house, so is Gerald Ford. We're going to honor the presidents in the next hour. We're going to be hearing from General Schwarzkopf. And at midnight tonight, by the way, we'll have an exclusive interview with President Bush and former President Ford, presidents Bush and Ford will be with us at midnight tonight.
We're talking with George Prescott Bush, the son of Governor Jeb Bush. He's George Bush's nephew, and he was one of "People" magazine's 100 most eligible bachelors. What was that like?
GEORGE P. BUSH: It was a great experience.
GEORGE P. BUSH: It was surprising. It was flattering. I really expected myself to be bumped off the list to 101. It was really an interesting experience. I think it's brought new people into the fold. At a lot of the professional meetings that we've had, the younger Republican meetings, a lot of younger females are definitely into politics more so than before, which is good. I think it brings more young Americans.
KING: Are you enjoying the attention?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Not really, to be honest with you.
KING: You know, mean if you were in the background, that would suit you fine?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Yes, I'm a very low-key kind of guy. Always played a minor role in this campaign from day one. In New Hampshire holding signs in subzero temperatures on behalf of my uncle. You know, really,this is not what I'm searching for, seeking, but if it brings new faces, Latinos, younger Americans into the Republican Party, it's all for the good.
KING; You know your grandfather. When I was with him in San Antonio in 1992, I asked him to show his driver's license. We want to know if he lived in Texas or Connecticut. A Texas driver's license. And underneath that license, your picture, his Mexican grandson, as he called you.
GEORGE P. BUSH: The little brown one.
KING: The little brown one. Have you always been close with the grandparents?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Oh, yes. My grandfather is an incredibly wise man. He's always given me the right counsel when I need it. My grandmother, of course, the silver fox, the enforcer. She enforces the family rules, makes sure, as far as grandchildren are concerned, very polite and look people in the eye, very traditional, but very loving, sincere, and great role models, I think.
KING: And you also raised to treat people with courtesy. Do you expect to be -- soon, you know, when a campaign gets heated to be bashing Mrs. Gore and whoever runs with them?
GEORGE P. BUSH: No, not exactly. I don't think that's a strategy that my family has employed throughout the years.
There they are.
KING: There's your grandparents. There's Gerald Ford. Now you called her what?
GEORGE P. BUSH: The silver fox, the enforcer.
KING: And there is Betty Ford looking very well. Both of those presidents, as we said, will be with us at midnight. Boy, he looks amazingly well, does George Bush and Barbara Bush, waving to the crowd. They'll be honored, as does Nancy Reagan, representing her husband Ronald Reagan, who of course has Alzheimer's Disease and was unable to attend. The crowd knows they're all here now. They're giving him a cheer. There you see Nancy right to the left of George Bush, to your right .
Good reception in her honor tonight. Over at the Ritton House Hotel. I get to see Nancy about once a month. We have lunch, catch up on the gossip, as she says. She's always interested in what's going on, and she's very impressed with your uncle, by the way.
GEORGE P. BUSH: Really? That's great to hear. I'll make sure to convey that message.
KING: What's it like? It's your family. I mean, it's got to be a little weird.
GEORGE P. BUSH: I myself am just astonished looking at the TV right now. I consider myself to be a very fortunate person to see all this behind the scenes, and it's just been incredible, not only looking at people who have shaped so many minds throughout the years, but to see politics behind the scenes, and it's just such a noble profession. I wish more...
KING: Anything you don't like about it?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Well, as you alluded to before, the combative nature of it.
GEORGE P. BUSH: Yes, it's unfortunate. But unfortunately, sometimes, that's what it takes to win. As long as it helps win elections, politicians will, I think, continue to use those kind of tactics.
KING: And what about your aunt? She made a good impression here last night.
GEORGE P. BUSH: She sure did. She's an incredible woman: sincere, down to earth. She's really a breath of fresh air, I think, to a lot of people. You know, as a former educator, I can really relate with her in her professional background. And, you know, she's an incredible woman. And if she's fortunate to be the next first lady, I think she would do a great job in working with literacy.
KING: Your father will tell us, later, that, in truth, if you would have said 10 years ago, they are nominating a Bush for president, it would have been Jeb. He'd have thought first, Jeb.
GEORGE P. BUSH: That seems to be the family consensus as it relates to who would have been the next to follow the footsteps. But you know, my uncle definitely brings his own set of leadership skills to the table. He's demonstrated in the state of Texas that he's able to bring together Republicans and Democrats. I think that's what a president needs to do, whether they are Republican or Democrat: a person that can seek consensus on issues that face our country and move our country forward; a person who doesn't pay lip service to the public-opinion polls; somebody who stands on principles.
KING: Nothing wrong with ambition, is there?
GEORGE P. BUSH: Nothing wrong at all.
KING: OK, let's get down to the platform and Party Chairman Jim Nicholson for a special introduction.
JIM NICHOLSON, RNC CHAIRMAN: I was a graduate of West Point and am a proud Vietnam veteran.
NICHOLSON: Thank you. There I served with a brave soldier, an inspiring leader, who became a good friend. He sure did us proud as a commander of Operation Desert Storm. Standing on the deck of USS New Jersey, across the river in Camden, my old buddy and comrade in arms, General Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf!
RETIRED GENERAL NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF, U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Jim.
As I stand here on the deck of this great battleship, the New Jersey, that made so much history and witnessed so much heroism in its day, surrounded by these proud veterans of American wars in far-flung times and places, I am once again reminded of what a great nation we are.
As young West Point cadets, our motto was, "Duty, honor, country." But it was in the field, from the rice paddies of Southeast Asia to the sands of the Middle East, that I learned that motto's fullest meaning. There I saw gallant young Americans of every race, creed and background fight, and sometimes die, for duty, honor and their country.
I've seen a lot in the 44 years since I received my first commission as a second lieutenant. I have plenty of memories. But tonight, in this patriotic setting, one of them especially stands out in my mind. Exactly 10 years ago tomorrow, Iraq invaded Kuwait. Our commander in chief, President George Bush, declared to the world that we would, quote, "not let this aggression stand."
We drew a line in the sand. We told Iraq either withdraw its troops or get kicked out. Despite opposition from many in his own Congress, the president almost singlehandedly forged a coalition of 40 nations that led to a great victory with minimum casualties.
Just as importantly, he restored the American people's confidence in their armed forces and made us all proud to be Americans.
We should never forget the heroic dedication of the 540,000 American fighting men and women who won that magnificent victory in the sand. They were both active duty and reservists, who willingly answered the call to duty that disrupted their lives, took them away from family and jobs, and put them in harm's way.
Once again they reminded us all that freedom is not cost-free. It is bought and paid for with the blood and guts and limbs and lives of veterans just like these who are all around me.
We must not forget that our liberty is protected every day by soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines and Coast Guardsmen. Without them, there would be no liberty.
So if American forces are called into action again, we must make sure that they go into battle as well-equipped, well-trained and highly motivated as the men and women of Desert Storm.
Unfortunately, that may not be the case today. As of 1999, the number of fighting Army divisions ready for war had shrunk to less than half of what they were before Desert Storm.
The Navy's battle force of the last eight years has been cut by one-third, and the Air Force reports that it's now called on to mount four times as many operations with a force that has been cut by 40 percent.
Meanwhile, service enlistment targets fell short again this past year. There are reenlistment problems and 6,300 military families are now eligible for food stamps.
We must do better for the great men and women who defend our country today.
And we owe it to them and to those who we honor tonight.
Knowing this and recalling Operation Desert Storm, I can't help asking myself, wouldn't it be great for our armed forces and for America if we could have another commander-in-chief named George Bush with Dick Cheney on his team?
From the Battleship New Jersey with some of America's true heroes, thank you and God bless America.
NARRATOR: December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. United States of America is suddenly and deliberately -- with confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us God.
ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome one of America's greatest heroes: Bob Dole!
BOB DOLE, FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
There is still time for a recount.
Well, I've had a very exciting day today. This morning Strom Thurmond took me to Constitution Hall and showed me where he first met Ben Franklin. So it's been fun.
Thank you. Thank you, General Schwarzkopf.
Tonight I have the honor and pleasure of being here with no agenda and no greater ambition than to help give our country what she deserves, leadership worthy of the next American century.
Like presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, I am honored to be part of what is called the greatest generation.
And flattering that sounds, the truth is, we were ordinary Americans who along with millions of others who were called upon to meet extraordinary challenges. And whatever we may be today as a nation, it is because many generations of Americans were willing to make the greatest of sacrifices.
Our Kansas motto: "To the stars through difficulties." And there the American century in a phrase. And during the bleak '30s and '40s it was fashionable in some quarters to see democracy as a dying faith, an exhausted creed that must give way to dictators of the right and left, but we knew better. And when war was forced upon us, we left our homes to rescue civilization from those who would put the soul itself in bondage. And many of us, too many of us, never returned. And today, they rest where they fell, in the green fields of France, beneath Italy's frowning peaks and under the turquoise waters of the Pacific.
And tonight, I am honored to speak for these voiceless heroes and for their comrades who survived the deadliest war ever inflicted on the human family. And more than a half-century after the guns fell silent, our ranks are dwindling, our reunions grow thin.
We've gone from over 16 million to less than 6 million. But the memories endure. And with them, the ability to inspire unborn generations to meet their own defining tests. And may they take heart from the example of those who defended freedom in its darkest hour. Yet, whatever our past achievements, our main obligation is to the future. Thus, our mission is incomplete until we recognize now and for all time the World War II generation on the Mall in Washington, D.C.
There, on democracy's sacred ground, we will build a monument to those who saved democracy. We will honor their service. We will mourn their sacrifice. We will remind tomorrow's Americans that they are descended from heroes for whom liberty is a birthright.
But in a larger sense -- but in a larger sense, no group of stone pillars or arches, moving as those symbols may be, can fully recognize their contributions. If you want to see their true memorial, look around you at this convention, at the upcoming convention in Los Angeles, and the election in November, and every time free men and women assemble to determine their destiny. That's the true memorial.
Four years ago, I said I was the most optimistic man in America, and I still am.
And I have seen, in a single lifetime, Americans split the atom, abolish Jim Crow, eliminate the scourge of polio, win the Cold War, plant our flag on the surface of the moon, belatedly recognize the talents of women and others once relegated to the shadows, develop the Internet, lead the information age, and map the human genome.
And much of this we all take for granted. Yet, all of this was once part of a barely imaginable America -- the youngest, bravest, freest land on the planet.
And today we meet in the birthplace of American liberty to renew our social contract. We look to Governor Bush and Secretary Cheney to raise our sights and restore honor and civility to our public life.
Meanwhile, the struggle to realize America's promise must be waged with every generation. And wherever I go, I meet young people who want to be part of something larger than themselves, heroes in waiting who realize that often the only path to the stars is through difficulty. And don't be fooled by their wardrobe or their music, they are as great a generation as this nation has ever produced and don't forget it.
And even as we meet, they're fighting quiet wars of their own, combating poverty, prejudice, isolation and indulgence. And my fondest hope that all their challenges are in community service and classrooms and research labs, not on foreign battlefields.
And finally, let me say this...
... and, of course, in my life I've experienced honor such as come to very few. For 36 years, the people of Kansas entrusted me with their voice and their vote in Washington.
And twice the party has nominated me for the nation's highest offices, but the greatest privilege of my life has been to wear the uniform of our country in a righteous cause in World War II.
And not far from here -- not from here, Lincoln at Gettysburg said: It is us for the living to be dedicated here to the unfinished work for which they who fought have thus far so no nobly advanced. It is for us to dedicated to the great task remaining before us.
The task before us is the unending struggle to realize America's promise, to build a society as decent as it is prosperous, to ensure freedom's survival and expand the frontiers of opportunity, to win home-front victories for justice and human dignity.
In this struggle we shall find our strength in many places, but the ultimate source of our purpose comes from above.
So this evening, let us look up and let us look into the eyes of those who are defending our shores -- help all of us to reach for the stars.
Thank you very much and God bless America.
(APPLAUSE) KING: What they're doing now following that stirring address by their former candidate, Bob Dole, is they're going to play a musical melody from the branches of the services.
I think Mr. Dole will explain it.
DOLE: Thank you, and now please join me in saluting the greatest generation of veterans and every generation of our armed services. We ask that all veterans who are here with us in the hall tonight stand and be recognized as your respective service songs are played.
KING: They've played the Marines and now "Anchor Away," honoring the Navy. You're hearing a medley of all the service songs, and as each song is played they're asking veterans who served in that service to stand. Bush and Ford, both naval veterans. They'll both be with us at midnight tonight.
The Air Force, or as it was then known the Army Air Corps. It didn't become the Air Force until after World War II.
Coast Guard Academy. Rick Lazio will be with us in a couple of minutes. The Coast Guard Academy is in his home base in New York. I guess the only one left would be the Army.
Proud veterans standing up. There's the main box with Nancy Reagan. And now Bob Dole leads a salute.
DOLE: My fellow Americans, this proud veteran salutes you.
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