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GOP Nominates Dick Cheney for Vice President

Aired August 2, 2000 - 7:00 p.m. ET


BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: Evening session No. 3 for these Republican delegates concerned about a party warrior in a Philadelphia hospital.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Inside the hall, the night's main question: Will running mate Dick Cheney stay Philadelphia positive or go after Al Gore?

ANNOUNCER: Tonight, from Philadelphia, the 37th Republican National Convention; 2000 delegates, 10,000 volunteers, and 15,000 media members have converged on the cradle of American democracy for the nomination of the GOP candidates for president and vice president of the United States.

In this grand old city, the Grand Old Party of Lincoln, Eisenhower, and Reagan starts its quest for the White House, led by a man with Texas roots and a president's name. Now, from Philadelphia's First Union Center, here are CNN's Bernard Shaw, Judy Woodruff, and Jeff Greenfield.

SHAW: And we welcome you again, because this evening, they are preparing to get down to the political brass tacks of a party convention.

WOODRUFF: That they are, Bernie. This is the third night of this convention. Traditionally, the vice presidential running mate doesn't speak until the fourth night, the same night as the presidential nominee. But the Republicans are shaking things up. They are doing some things differently, as we have been noticing. And Dick Cheney is going to speak tonight.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: And in fact, it is the night when this most unpolitical of vice presidential choices is in the absolute white-hot center of the political universe and will, according to the experts, give the first political indictment. As he says: "The last eight years have seen opportunities squandered" -- and taking Al Gore's phrase of eight years ago and throwing it right back in his face: "It is time for them to go." We are actually going to hear a political argument, at least in part, by Dick Cheney.

WOODRUFF: Well, everything is in place. The big players are now in town, especially the man himself. George W. Bush arrived in Philadelphia today. And to symbolize party unity, he was greeted by his once main rival, John McCain. A little bit later in the day, it was time to check out the podium. Governor Bush came and checked out the microphones and the lectern here in convention hall for tomorrow night's acceptance speech.

GREENFIELD: But Judy and Bernie, there is a cloud that has settled over this convention. Happily, we think it is a small cloud. Remember that 24 hours ago, Gerald Ford was in the hall being honored as one of the living Republican presidents. Tonight, he is in a Philadelphia hospital.

Bruce Morton updates us on the condition of the former president.


BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 87-year-old former president first went to hospital after Tuesday's convention session thinking he had a sinus infection. But he returned Wednesday morning, walking in from his car. Diagnosis?

DR. ROBERT SCHWARTZMANN, HAHNEMANN UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: He had a small brain-stem stroke -- a little difficulty with speech and a little difficulty with his balance. But at the present time, he is improving and he has been undergoing testing throughout most of the day.

MORTON: Ford is expected to be in the hospital five or six days, Schwartzmann said.

SCHWARTZMANN: The president will totally recover from this. He has a little trouble with his speech and a little trouble with swallowing, but he should totally recover.

MORTON: Ford, along with Republican ex-Presidents George Bush and Ronald Reagan -- to ill to attend, but represented by his wife Nancy -- were honorees at Tuesday's convention session. Ford watched with his wife, Betty. Some thought he was moved by the tribute. Others thought he looked unwell. Before the tribute videos, he spoke with Wolf Blitzer.

GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Both Betty and I are really overcome, Wolf, because we have such wonderful memories of our term in the White House, short as it was. But the opportunity to do things constructively at home and abroad, well, coming here tonight brings back all those great big memories.

MORTON: Ford was never elected as president or vice president. Richard Nixon chose him with Congressional approval under a then new constitutional amendment, after Nixon's first vice president resigned. When Nixon resigned, facing impeachment over the Watergate scandal, Ford became president.


FORD: I assume the presidency under extraordinary circumstances never before experienced by Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MORTON: In 1976, Ford survived a primary challenge from Ronald Reagan, but lost the presidency to Jimmy Carter. A few stumbles got him a reputation as a klutz, but in fact, he has always been athletic: star football player at Michigan and in office and in retirement, an avid skier and golfer. And, as he told Larry King in an interview broadcast Tuesday, a happy man.

FORD: Betty and I are having a magnificent life: 52 years of married life and four great children, 15 grandchildren. Everything is breaking just right. And, I'm delighted to be here at this convention after knowing there's so many for so many years.

MORTON: Doctors say he is doing well. He is expected to be in hospital five or six days.

Bruce Morton CNN, Philadelphia.


SHAW: Because Wolf Blitzer spoke to the 38th president of the United States some 24 hours ago, Wolf, we are going to come back to you at the podium.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bernie, the president looked good when I first saw him. Although when we started that interview, in fact, he had been moments before, when we were just talking privately, I could hear his voice was struggling somewhat. His mind was certainly alert. There is no doubt about that. He answered all the questions forthrightly. He knew what was going on. He answered questions about the news of the day. But he was struggling with some words.

He also mentioned to me that he was having some problems with his ear. He asked me to speak directly into his ear. He asked me to speak loudly. But there was no sign -- I had no sign that there was anything more serious than that. Later, of course, when we all spotted him sitting in the VIP section here at the convention, listening to all the tributes, he was visibly moved by the tribute to himself. He was moved by what was said about President Reagan -- also what was said about President Bush.

But he also did not look that great. Still, all of us were very, very surprised, earlier today, when we got the word that it was a stroke. And of course, personally I can say that since I spoke with him last night -- and I have known now him many years -- we are all wishing him only the best. Back to you in the booth.

WOODRUFF: Well, that is certainly true, Wolf.

And joining us now, Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, who -- outside of his political life -- is a surgeon, a surgeon who specializes in transplants.

Senator Frist, in former President Ford, an 87-year-old man, a small stroke, a mild stroke, how serious is this based on what we know? SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: Well, based on what we know, things look, very very good. Cardiovascular disease is influenced by smoking, by diabetes, by cholesterol, but also by age. So, any 87- year-old person, 88-year-old person is going to have some vascular disease of the brain itself, in the brain stem, which is the root of the brain, as well as in the brain itself. It sounds to me -- I haven't talked to the doctors -- that he had thrombosis or a small little blood clot in an area that was already diseased.

He has had apparently a stuttering course. And although it sounds like he is doing great -- and what happens in the first 24 hours is very predictive of long-term prognosis. So it sounds superb. But the fact that he's had this stuttering course over two days means that, I would think, they would want to observe him very closely.

WOODRUFF: Well, they are saying they want to -- they expect he will stay in the hospital five or six days. Is that typical?

FRIST: Well, it is, it is. Basically, all this is, if he has blood flowing up to the brain, an obstruction -- just like if he had a river, if you put a little dam there, and then the dam opened it up and blood continued. So, he hadn't had any brain death of any of the cells there. And that is why he is recovering so quickly. When you look at neurological disease, you look and see how quickly the recovery occurs.

If it's in the first few hours, prognosis is superb. And that what it looks like it is. But again, this little bit of a stuttering course means they are going to want to observe him, I would think. Again, I haven't talked to him.

SHAW: Two points -- is that what the doctors meant when they said that he would be in the hospital five or six days until his anti- coagulation is perfect?

FRIST: Anti-coagulation -- thrombosis is just a blood clot. So you have a vessel. It's been narrowed by disease. You have a blood clot there, and it stops the blood from flowing through. So you want to keep the blood thin. It dissolves a little blood clot and opens it back up over time. You start giving that medicine -- I don't know when they started it -- but it takes hours to days before you get that blood level up to a level that there's adequate coagulation.

GREENFIELD: Senator, as a doctor, you may be one of the few politicians we know has saved lives. Let me turn the conversation to another health issue that has arisen: Dick Cheney. Just as a medical matter, a 59-year-old man, who has had three heart attacks, bypass surgery, no -- nothing since then -- just statistically, is he more at risk than say someone like myself who is almost his age who has had no such history?

FRIST: Oh, I would say, yes, more at risk. But it's all relative. I'll tell you, over the 20 years that I have been doing cardiac surgery. And I have done this same procedure hundreds, if not thousands of times. And things have improved so much in terms of medicines, keeping the vessels open, unloading the heart. It is a matter of supply and demand. You are able to increase supply and decrease demand. So, I haven't seen any of his predictive tests.

But I assume, given the fact that a cardiologist such as myself -- or a cardiac surgeon -- has looked at those -- that his prognosis is superb, or he wouldn't have entered into this. But today, somebody who has heart disease, who is on excellent treatment, who has had surgical treatment, can have superb, outstanding prognosis. And I assume that is what it is. Again, I haven't seen the scans themselves.

WOODRUFF: All right, Senator Bill Frist. Dr. Frist, we thank you very much for joining us.

FRIST: Good to be with you, yes indeed.


WOODRUFF: And we'll see you out there on the convention floor.

And by the way, you can join Senator Bill Frist for an online chat at 7:15 Eastern time. He's going to stick around, participate in that. For you to take part at it, you go on your computer to We'll see you later.

FRIST: Good. I'll be there. Thank you.

GREENFIELD: Well, Judy and Bernie, you know, this comes under the heading of no stone unturned in politics. In this case, the stone is a rock. Someone at the Republican convention thought it would be a neat idea to have House Speaker Dennis Hastert, a former high school wrestling coach, introduced tonight by "The Rock," who happens to be champion of the World Wrestling Federation, a highly rated, highly profitable wrestling show, on that, I should add, competes with World Championship Wrestling, owned by the parent company of CNN.

However, the choice of The Rock has stirred controversy among some members of the conservative community about what exactly goes on with those shows.

Jeanne Meserve is down on the floor with one of the people who is not at happy about this Rock -- Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jeff, that's right. I'm with Brent Bozell, who is chairman of the Parents Television Council.

You didn't want to see The Rock appear here tonight. Why not?

I. BRENT BOZELL, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: Well, I've got nothing against wrestling, and there is nothing wrong with the Republicans having good entertainment here. But I would correct one thing -- this not something that just conservatives are upset with. Here is a show that is the single most violent, the most raunchiest, filthiest show on broadcast television. You've got a wrestler who two nights ago, as part of his act, beat up a woman, and the Republican Party is showcasing him as, what, their family values.

I mean, this is a Republican Party that wants to be cool hip, and fine, I don't have a problem with that, but there are approximately 485,000 celebrities they could have chosen. This was not a good choice.

WOODRUFF: Are you being, as The Rock would say, a "jabroni"? Are you just taking this too seriously? Isn't wrestling just theater in large part?

BOZELL: Jeanne, let me tell, if you used the language to an adult audience that The Rock uses to millions of children, you'd be fired in a nanosecond by CNN. He does use that language. I can't use the language in this interview that he uses, giving children in an arena, thousands of children -- 14, 12, 10 years old, screaming. Now, if that's acceptable for the Republicans, they are going to have to answer the question of the press when the press says, what about your family values?

And there is another point of view on that. And for it, we go to Wolf Blitzer on the podium -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeanne, we have with us, not only The Rock, but someone also who's name is Dwayne Johnson.

Dwayne, what do you say to that criticism that's been leveled against you?

DWAYNE JOHNSON, "THE ROCK"/WORLDWIDE WRESTLING FEDERATION: Well, I think for Mr. Bozell to say that The Rock the end WWF programming, as successful as we are, to be the most offensive and raunchiest programming on television, well, apparently Mr. Bozell doesn't watch much TV, because The Rock and the WWF tame compared to what you could see on network television and compared to quote see on cable TV. Now you know, The Rock and the millions and the millions of the WWF fans The Rock reaches to every week -- I certainly respect his right to criticize his right to certainly change the television.

He is an extremist who represents a very radical group, and if they certainly don't like the WWF or The Rock for that matter, then that's why they make channel-changers, and we respect that. But at the same time, all we ask in return is that Mr. Bozell and the rest of his organization, you know, respect the fact that 22 million WWF fans enjoy our product.

BOZELL: No, it's not 22 million. I mean, two days ago, it was 14 million. Now it's gone up to 22 million.

THE ROCK: Well, actually...

BOZELL: The reality is that in the last several months, over 30 major sponsors, including Coca-Cola, MCI, the armed forces -- Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard -- a whole bevy of national sponsors have seen what you're doing, they're so disgusted by what you're doing, they've all pulled your advertising, which makes it remarkable that now the Republican Party is adopting you.

THE ROCK: Well, what's funny and remarkable is you really don't know your facts, Mr. Bozell. It was 14 million possibly registered voters, and that's exactly why The Rock is here. Nielsen's ratings certainly don't lie. It's 22 million. And as far as for the 30 advertisers who pulled out, some did absolutely, but some came back, and you know, I really just have to say, I mean, come on, grow up, what we do is entertainment, we are tame compared to what he see on network television and on cable TV. And quite frankly, if you don't like it, then you could just turn the channel, but there are 22 million -- there are 22 million viewers out there who do like it and who do love the WWF and our form of entertainment.

BLITZER: All right, Dwayne Johnson, also "The Rock," this controversy is going to continue, but thank you so much for joining us. We know one of your colleagues not that long ago went from the wrestling ring to become a governor of an important state. Back to you guys in the booth.

SHAW: The State of 10,000 Lakes.

WOODRUFF: Well, and when -- just one other comment about all of this, when the convention planners were asked about this controversy, one of the points they made was, well, this is part of our entertainment agenda here, and they pointed out that it is to be tied in with House Speaker Dennis Hastert who once taught wrestling.

GREENFIELD: It's very interesting, though, when you think about Newt Gingrich when he was speaker attacking the Democrats for moral relativism, attacking the mostly liberal media for leading us into a swamp, Bill Bennett's crusade against the coarsening of American values. I wonder if the folks who plan this ever have seen "Smackdown"? Because despite what The Rock says, there is some stuff on WWF, to be blunt about it, that's way beyond with see on network television. There are women who lose parts of their costumes.

There is, granted, play violence, but it is re-enacted violence, men against women. There is language that is fairly -- that would shock, I think, this convention. And J.D. Hayworth, the Arizona conservative congressman, his answer was, look, lighten up, it's just fun. It's just interesting how the wheel can sometimes turn, and now it's a conservative accusing the Republicans of a family values offense.

WOODRUFF: Another question being, you can change the channel, and it is the Republican Party convention where this is happening.

SHAW: Well, I know that when we came on, that this is the night for the delegates to get down to the political brass tacks of a party convention. Let's take a closer look at what they're going to do this evening.

Here's a look ahead at this evening, the third night of the convention, Wednesday, August 2: Just after 7:30 Philadelphia time, retired NFL quarterback Steve Young moves from the football field to the political arena, and delivers the invocation. In the 8:00 hour, nonstars take the stage to share live stories that personalize GOP messages.

For example, a single mother issues the call for tax reforms under tonight's theme: prosperity with a purpose, keeping America prosperous and protecting retirement security. Later in the 8:00 p.m. hour, Dick Cheney gets his formal nomination as vice presidential candidate. Then in the 9:00 hour, the rolling roll call, which began Monday, is expected to push the Bush-Cheney ticket over the top. That leads up to the high point of the evening -- Dick Cheney formally accepts the party's vice presidential nomination and delivers the final speech on the third day of the Republican National Convention.

WOODRUFF: And when we come back, just who is this man George W. Bush has chosen for his running mate? Stay tuned.



UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On day three of the 1988 Republican National Convention, in New Orleans, George Bush was officially nominated as the party's candidate for president. The roll call that followed lasted an hour and half, as each state enthusiastically announced its votes. Texas put Bush over the top. The announcer, another Bush, George W.


GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The great state of Texas proudly casts 111 votes for a man we respect and man we love -- Texas casts all her votes for her favorite son and the best father in America, George Bush.


UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: George W. went on to become governor of Texas in 1994. Now it's his turn.


WOODRUFF: Many Americans know of Dick Cheney from his days as secretary of defense, but his speech tonight is designed to reintroduce him to the country in his new role as vice presidential candidate. Cheney will step up to the podium with an overwhelming support of his party and an impressive resume.


GEORGE W. BUSH: I'm glad to have Dick Cheney by my side. It speaks volumes that I'm willing to pick somebody, who is as strong a man as he is.

WOODRUFF (voice-over): Admirers and critics alike describe Dick Cheney as the designated grownup of the team. That characterization isn't new. It goes back to Casper, Wyoming. The city where Lincoln, Nebraska native Richard Bruce Cheney grew up. The son of a federal worker, his dad was a soil conservation agent, his mother a homemaker. He became co-captain of football team and class president. His first political effort was to get his high school sweetheart, Lynne Vincent, elected homecoming queen. Five years later, they were married. Friends say, even as a teenager, Cheney had an aura of responsibility.

JOE MEYER, HIGH SCHOOL FRIEND: I know several parents, their boys, who were a little more wild than we were, wouldn't let them go out with a group unless Dick was in the group.

WOODRUFF: But the responsible teenager didn't adapt well to an Ivy League curriculum at Yale. He dropped out after only three semesters because of poor grades.

MEYER: Dick thought long and hard what caused the problem in Yale, and it probably dawned on him, I needed to work harder, and that's been his hallmark.

WOODRUFF: Cheney went on to earn bachelors and masters degrees in political science. Next came internships and fellowships, which brought him to Capitol Hill. When then-Congressman Donald Rumsfeld joined the Nixon administration, he brought Cheney. By his mid-30s, sideburns and all, Dick Cheney was chief of staff to President Gerald Ford.

THOMAS MANN, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: He handled that job extremely well. He was 34 years old, and he demonstrated a premature maturity.

WOODRUFF: Two years after President Ford lost the 1976 election, Wyoming voters elected Dick Cheney to first of six terms he would serve in Congress. David Nicholas ran his first campaign.

DAVID NICHOLAS, 1978 CHENEY CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: He was very clear that he was going to be very successful as a politician.

SEN. CRAIG THOMAS (R), WYOMING: Dick Cheney is a person who's able to work with everyone in the political arena. He proved that when he was in the House. He his votes have been conservative. He represented a conservative state.

WOODRUFF: But as soon as George W. Bush named Cheney as his running mate, that very conservative record drew fire.


UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Cheney was one of only eight members of Congress to's oppose the Clean Water Act.


WOODRUFF: Cheney says his Congressional votes have been taken out of context, but critics say his votes speak for themselves. In 1983, he opposed federal funding for abortion, with no exceptions for rape or incest. 1985, Cheney was one of just 21 lawmakers to vote against a ban on armor-piercing bullets, so-called "cop killers." 1986, Cheney voted against a resolution urging South Africa's then whites-only government to recognize the African National Congress and release Nelson Mandela from prison. 1988, he was one of only four voting against a ban on plastic gains, nicknamed "terrorist guns," because they cannot be can he detected by airport security devices. Even the NRA didn't oppose the ban.

Despite three heart attacks and quadruple bypass surgery, all before the age of 48, Cheney was named secretary of defense by President George Bush. Cheney had never served in the military.

And this is how most of us got to know him, as the man inspecting the troops in the field or briefing reporters at the Pentagon during operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, the war in the Gulf.

After George Bush was defeated, Cheney returned to Wyoming, where on a fly fishing trip, he met up with an executive of the Halliburton company, a Dallas-based energy services firm. He became Halliburton's chief executive in 1995. But all along, politics was on his mind. Cheney explored a run for president in 1996, but his candidacy never caught fire with Republicans.

That didn't seem to matter, though, to George W. Bush, who asked Cheney, by now a Bush family friend, to head up his search for a running mate. Funny how thanks work out.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MAJORITY LEADER: I said, you the man. You're the one that George W. should select.

WOODRUFF: And that's just what the governor did.

GEORGE W. BUSH: And I picked him because he will be a valuable partner in a Bush administration.

WOODRUFF: Cheney's old friends say he is simply back doing what he likes best.

MEYER: He's into the race now, he is heavy competitor, we both were, and, in football days, he has retained that, and he is just ready for this race.


WOODRUFF: What was interesting in looking back, as we prepared this piece, even during that time when Dick Cheney was completely out of politics and working in the energy services business, the oil business, he had his eye on politics. He seriously looked at running for president in 1996, he went out and made some speeches. I talked to several political reporters today to ask them to help me remember what the perception was of his candidacy, and they said, well, he wasn't that exciting a speaker, his poll ratings, I think as Bob Novak reminded me, were in the single digits, and he finally just dropped out.

GREENFIELD: And in fact, I think it was that fact that the Bush campaign found in a funny way was attractive. I mean, here's not a guy, who -- they say, it's the steak, not the sizzle. And in some way, here's a guy who's always been in the public arena, but is not thought of as a politician, not thought of as guy who runs out, wants to eat the microphone. In fact, when you watch him work the rope lines and stuff, he almost looks uncomfortable. And I would suggest, there is a possibility that might be mildly appealing to an electorate that's tired of people who -- I mean, if Bill Clinton would campaign until sundown and sunup. This is a guy who, like, probably would maybe prefer to be home reading a policy paper or having dinner, and that might even be one of the most appealing political possibilities of his whole persona.

SHAW: And certainly, one of the things the Bush people had to experience coming back to them when they made just casual telephonic inquiries about this man, a prime description of Dick Cheney had to have been loyalty, which George W. Bush prizes.

WOODRUFF: He was very close. Of course President Bush selected him for one of the most critical cabinet posts, secretary of defense, the man who runs the Pentagon. If there is any kind of war that an administration is engaged in, he's the key, he's the point man, so he had to be somebody that President Bush had complete trust in confidence in, and not only that, he became a close friend of, and is, a close friend of President Bush.

GREENFIELD: And we did notice that those votes that you listened -- as politics is practiced these days, rapid response is one of the most important political weapons. The Bush campaign was in within 48 hours explaining some of those votes. No, it wasn't a vote against releasing a Nelson Mandela. It was that the African National Congress was considered a communist-dominated organization. And then in some cases, Dick Cheney simply said, I wouldn't vote the same way today.

SHAW: I have a hunch. We saw the picture of the very young 34- year-old Dick Cheney, chief of staff for Gerald R. Ford, the 38th president of the United States. These men admire each other. They are very close friends. My hunch is that we might hear tonight Dick Cheney from this podium talk about Jerry Ford. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he might have talked with his former boss today.

WOODRUFF: Wouldn't be surprised at all.

SHAW: Wouldn't be surprised at all.

WOODRUFF: Well, we're going to find out what's going on on the floor, how the delegates are reacting to the Cheney nomination, and how they're feeling about the first couple of days of this convention, and we'll do that in just a moment, when we come back.


WOODRUFF: The invocation at this Republican Convention tonight being given by former San Francisco 49ers quarterback, Steve Young.

STEVE YOUNG, FORMER NFL PLAYER: ... and collectively. And may we have that privilege throughout day. We are here as a body to represent this nation and feel the beauty of our differences in culture, race and heritage as a gift of freedom, one to cherish and protect. At this time of prosperity, yet great need, may every delegate profoundly understand and fulfill the obligation they have been given by the people and by the Father.

All will be accountable to set the example of the world, to value the worth of every living soul and value the liberty that is inherently deserved. May our own souls be searched in recognition of our obligation to the elderly, the sick, the homeless, the children, the noble veterans and present military, all those that are born and unborn, and to all those who look to our shores for respite. We worship thee, Father, and we thank thee for the beauty of this land. May we tend it well and account to thee for this gift.

May our children look to their leaders as people of integrity, worthy of emulation. May those elected be filled with charity and love and follow your commandments. We ask you to endow this convention with an outpouring of thy spirit, so that all will accept this opportunity as a holy obligation. And tonight, we also ask a special blessing to be upon President and Mrs. Ford at the time of healing that is necessary. We thank thee again, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please remain standing while the colors are retired.

WOODRUFF: Steve Young, not only a hall-of-fame, best-running quarterback in the NFL, he is a Mormon. He is the great, great, great grandson of Brigham Young, the founder of the Mormon church.

GREENFIELD: And in a couple minutes, we are about to see what Brent Bozell and some others were excited about, because House Speaker Dennis Hastert, former high school wrestling coach, will be introduced by the reigning champion of the World Wrestling Federation, the Rock. I hope I'm not disillusioning people out there when I say that it is not entirely unknown to the officials of the World Wrestling Federation who the champion will be before he even enters the ring. Since professional wrestling, unlike what Denny Hastert taught, is an exhibition, not a sport.

WOODRUFF: An interesting note here that the Rock, Dwayne Johnson, as you told us earlier, is of American-Samoan descent.


THE ROCK: Now let the Rock get this straight: You invited the Rock, the World Wrestling Federation champion, to speak at the Republican National Convention?


Well, the Rock says this: What's the matter with you people? If the Rock didn't know any better, he'd say you might be trying to reach out to all the Rock's fans, the 14 million eligible voters who watch the Rock every single week.


Well, if that's the case, then the Rock has two words for you: Thank you! (APPLAUSE)

Thank you on behalf of all of our fans across America. And thank you for recognizing the passion and the potential power of those fans who will no doubt help elect the next president of the United States.


If you smell what the Rock is cooking...

SHAW: Well, so the Republican convention...

WOODRUFF: How are the Democrats going to top this, Bernie, what do you think?

SHAW: I think they'll have their own show, but this is special what's unfolding here in Philadelphia.

WOODRUFF: Serious about getting those wrestling fans to register to vote and vote Republican. That's what it's about.


GREENFIELD: ... that, as Bernie mentioned, there is a governor of Minnesota who was, a few years ago, wearing a pink feather boa and body-slamming people in the ring. I mean, the older you get, the more you think you've seen everything in politics, the more surprised you can be.

Let's go down to the floor starting with Wolf Blitzer and begin our tour of the floor with our ace correspondents -- Rock, Wolf, go ahead.

BLITZER: Not the Rock, just Wolf, Jeff.

The fact of the matter is, despite Rock's presence here tonight, tonight is Dick Cheney's night here at this Republican National Convention. He will be formally nominated. It's a night that he will make his major address. He'll be showcased. And I have to tell you, coming into this evening, a lot of Bush campaign operatives have been telling me privately, they do acknowledge they made a mistake in not completely vetting all of his votes -- some of those controversial votes in the 1980s, when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

That first day or two after he got the formal nomination, the Democrats, the Gore campaign, went on the offensive, recalled a lot of those votes and clearly, the Bush campaign was not completely ready with answers -- for example, on the Nelson Mandela vote, freeing Nelson Mandela. Subsequently, he had a lot of good answers for a lot of those votes, but they weren't ready right away. They acknowledge that was a mistake.

Let's talk a little bit more now about Dick Cheney -- my colleague on the floor, Frank Sesno. FRANK SESNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I've been talking to people who have seen Cheney's speech tonight, and they say it's what one strategist calls hard positive. He's going to be positive, but he is going to be hard. He's not going to bash and he's not going to be negative. He'll use Gore -- he'll mention Gore by name. But he will keep the kind of references to those we've heard in the past.

He'll talk about opportunities squandered over the past eight years. He'll talk about the need to restore decency and integrity to Washington. We know by now that is code language. He, as I say, he won't be harsh and he won't mention the "i" word: impeachment. But there will be plenty of contrast. He'll say, for example, that President Clinton and Vice President Gore promised to fix and save Social Security; they didn't -- rebuild the military, they didn't.

There will be more of that and a lot of good talk, nice words for the man you might expect, George W. Bush. You'll be finding more out about that speech as we go.

Now, across the floor to Candy Crowley.


One of the most difficult parts of public life has to be the fear that perhaps someone you love might get singed by the bright lights. That has to be at least in part what's on Dick Cheney's mind tonight. Cheney, of course, is No. 2 on a ticket for the Republican Party, which has a platform which is arguably anti-gay. Cheney, however, is the father of a 31-year-old gay daughter. Mary is her name.

A lot of people have brought this up in the newspapers. I talked to a very close friend of Cheney's who knew both Cheney's daughters as they were growing up. And I asked him if he thought this was a problem for Dick Cheney. He reminded me that when Cheney was the Pentagon chief, one of his top staffers came to him, and said: "I believe a publication is about to announce that I'm gay. I wanted you to know this." And Cheney said: "It's your private life. I don't care about it. Get back to work."

This friend of Cheney said that that is pretty how he feels, that this is a private thing. Cheney has said publicly many times: I love both my daughters. And in fact, Mary Cheney is expected in the box tonight. And Bush campaign officials say she will campaign with her father.

Now to Jeanne Meserve.

MESERVE: Candy, first let me explain that we are in a musical interlude. That's what you hear behind me. Gay rights just one of the issues you're not hearing about at this convention -- if you want to avoid controversy, the rule is you avoid certain subjects. And that's what's happening here. Some of those subjects that are filet mignon for the conservatives are not being talked about, because they want to make headway with the voters in the middle.

On abortion, for instance, the Republicans know they have the anti-abortion rights vote locked up. They know they aren't going to get the pro-abortion rights vote. And they don't want to do anything to risk alienating the 50 percent of Americans who are in the middle, who think that there should be abortion under some circumstances. Likewise with gun control and capital punishment: Although you won't hear about it in the hall, it is being talked about outside the hall. I saw some protesters in a car today with a sign pasted on the side of their vehicle that said, "There's nothing compassionate about capital punishment."

And now onto John King.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jeanne, in life -- in politics as in life, imitation the most sincere form of flattery. Look at the program here tonight, and you will see very similar themes to Bill Clinton's convention back in 1996. The Republicans tonight will promise to save and shore up Social Security. They will promise to address the health care crisis in America, including discussing new proposals for prescription drug benefits for elderly Americans.

Look back at Monday night, we heard talk from Laura Bush, a former schoolteacher, on education.

Democrats say this is the masquerade ball. That is the term the Gore campaign using for this. Republicans disagree with that. What they see is you see here some lessons learned -- they're platform no longer calls for the abolition of the Department of Education -- but also the differing governing philosophy the Republican governors bring to the table as opposed to the Republicans in Congress, long identified with Newt Gingrich.

President Clinton used Social Security, health care, and education against the Republicans in both 1992 and 1996 to paint the party as cold, but the Republican program here designed to rebut that criticism. Back to the booth.

GREENFIELD: Thank you. Just two quick points, because I realize the sexuality of a vice president's family member may seem, you know, may seem a little bit odd to talk about, but two things need to be put on the table: the Republican platform specifically says that gay couples ought not to be allowed to adopt children, and second, in the state of Texas, George W. Bush's home state, sexual activity between consenting adults, gay adults, is criminal activity. It's called sodomy.

It's just one of those many odd facts when private and public -- private lives and public policy become entwined -- Bernie.

SHAW: Judy, thinking about your piece that we just saw: Dick Cheney spent 12 years in the House of Representatives. Bill Schneider is here now with a closer look at particular voting styles by Mr. Cheney.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Bernie, you know, Dick Cheney always sounds moderate and reasonable. But his congressional voting record, well, that's another story. Cheney has taken positions that could endanger George Bush's support in some crucial constituencies. Let's take a look.

1987: Cheney votes against reauthorization of the Clean Water Act, one of only eight House members to do that. Problem: young voters: They're the strongest environmentalists. They favored Clinton in '92 and by almost 20 points in '96. Where are the voters? A narrow majority for Bush among young people. That could be threatened by Cheney's record on the environment.

1985: Cheney opposes a ban on armor-piercing bullet. '88: He opposes a ban on plastic guns and a seven-day waiting period for handgun purchases. Problem: suburban women. They went for Clinton narrowly in '92 and again in '96. Where are the voters? A narrow majority for Bush among suburban women. That could be endangered by Cheney's record on gun control.

'83: Cheney votes against the Equal Rights Amendment for women. '84: He votes to deny federal funds to hospitals that perform abortions. Problem: young women. For Clinton by 15 points in '92 and by over 25 points in '96. Where are the voters? Among young women we see a small majority for Al Gore, and that could be enlarged by Cheney's record on women's rights. 1979: Cheney votes against establishing the Department of Education. In '86: He votes against funding Head Start programs. Problem: Parents -- went for Clinton narrowly twice. Where are the voters? A 21-point lead for Bush right now among parents. That could be endangered by Cheney's record on education.

And in 1986, he opposes a resolution calling for Nelson Mandela's release. Problem: If he can't explain that vote, he could energize the African-American community to turn out in record numbers to vote for Al Gore, and it could tarnish Bush's carefully cultivated image of inclusiveness.

Can Cheney give a speech tonight that reassures voters that he is not as extreme as that voting record? We're going to see.

SHAW: Thank you, Bill.

WOODRUFF: Speech coming about 10:30 tonight Eastern Time.

All right. Well, just for a moment setting Dick Cheney's record aside, this party is trying to come across as the kinder, gentler Republican Party. When we come back, we're going to look at some of the ad-making, the commercials being made to sell this kinder, gentler party. We'll be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On day three of the 1980 Republican National Convention in Detroit, delegates close Ronald Reagan as their standard-barer. Many wanted former President Gerald Ford as his running mate. Some called it a dream ticket. But no ex-president had ever run for the second spot, and Ford himself told reporters that day he did not want to be a figurehead vice president. So after a late- night meeting with Ford...


RONALD REAGAN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And he believes deeply that he can be of more value as the former president campaigning his heart out, which he has pledged to do...


... and not as a member of the ticket.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The No. 2 job will go to the runner-up for the presidential nomination, George Bush.


SHAW: Now, that was a signal convention for CNN, for me, and about 300 other women and men of CNN, because it was our very first convention in 1980.

GREENFIELD: It was my first convention at another network, and I remember sitting there late in the night saying, "What are they doing in that hotel suite picking a guy?" They don't do it that way anymore, Bernie.

WOODRUFF: I was with another network, too. It was my second convention, but it was quite a convention.

SHAW: It really was. It really was.

You know, a lot of people who know and are close to Texas Governor George W. Bush say his personality rather than his politics pull them over. Indeed, one man was pulled across party lines, a Democrat. He is the governor's chief media adviser, Mark McKinnon.

Listen to what Jonathan Karl has to say.


JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The making of the most expensive political ad campaign in history.


GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And the right way to make America better for everyone is to be bold and decisive, to unite instead of divide. Now is the time to do the hard things.


KARL: And CNN got a rare look behind the scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAURA (ph) CRAWFORD, BUSH CAMPAIGN: I try to make it -- make you stay, sit down, and watch. And if it's pleasant to look at, then you're more likely to do it.

KARL: Laura Crawford is 28, a former film student. She is not well-known, but a key member of the creative team assembled by top Bush media adviser Mark McKinnon.


MARK MCKINNON, BUSH MEDIA ADVISER: I don't want to get distracted on that.

Oh, that's cool!

CRAWFORD: Dig that?

MCKINNON: I love that.


KARL (on camera): The Bush creative team is housed here in this building, some 2 miles from campaign headquarter. Pass the overgrown brush and down these stairs are their offices. They call it the bunker. And the small, hidden, windowless space was once used as a bomb shelter.

(voice-over): But McKinnon and his team have traveled thousands of miles to capture the images they hope will convey the campaign mantra, that their candidate is a different kind of Republican, images of Bush with schoolchildren and minorities.

For positive ads, no faceless narrator, instead, excerpts of McKinnon's own interviews with Bush.

MCKINNON: If we do our job well, we get out of the way and try to catch moments of the candidate speaking from their heart, and if we get that across, like I said, that's a whole lot of the game.

KARL: The Bush team also has lots of footage of Al Gore, and if Gore attacks first:

(on camera): Are you ready to put any of Gore's own words back at him? I mean, there's the whole wealth of material to work from.

MCKINNON: Jonathan, that would be telling. But we're ready.

KARL (voice-over): McKinnon is Bush's most unlikely adviser.


GOV. BUSH: I'll say one thing about campaigning for office in west Texas, you sure do get to do plenty of driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KARL: About the time Bush first ran for office, McKinnon was getting arrested as a campus radical. He's a lifelong Democrat who's worked in the trenches with the likes of Paul Begala and James Carville. And a decade ago, McKinnon created the ads that helped Bush's Texas rival, Ann Richards, get elected governor. His trademark? Accuse your opponent of going negative, and then attack.


UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Jim Mattox, he's at it again, the same old politics, mud slinging and campaigning. Why? Maybe to cover up the fact that Mattox received $200,000 from Danny Faulkner, who was indicted for racketeering.


KARL: But burned out at being what he calls a gunslinger, McKinnon dropped out of politics, and then one day at an impoverished Houston school, he met Texas' new Republican governor, and says he was impressed by Bush's commitment to education.

MCKINNON: You meet the enemy and say, God, you know, a pretty decent guy. This is not at all what I had imagined.

KARL: McKinnon says he still doesn't consider himself a Republican, and that he's doing this out of passion, not ambition. And why would Bush choose him?

MCKINNON: Because he knew that I would do it for the right reasons. I wasn't doing it because I was looking to put a trophy on the wall, or you know, to put a notch in my gun.

KARL: And after the election? The ad-maker who collaborated with singer Kris Kristofferson says he'd rather take his family back to Nashville and write songs.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Austin, Texas.


WOODRUFF: And just a quick footnote to that, in part of that interview, with Mark McKinnon, he made a point of saying this is a brand-new party, it's a brand-new candidate, a brand-new message. It was only after that that Dick Cheney was selected. And I saw Mark McKinnon the other day, and I said, would you had said those things had you known that Dick Cheney was going to be the nominee, and he basically said no comment.

GREENFIELD: Well, speaking of people who have worked on the other side of the fence and have tried to convince us the people they work for are the finest people in the world, we have with us Michael McCurry, who used to speak for -- on behalf of President Clinton, Mary Matalin, who worked for Bush the father, is an informal adviser to Bush the son, and is also, of course, a regular on "CROSSFIRE."

I'm happy to say we have not just Eminem the rapper, we have M&M -- the M&M.

And, folks, let me cut to the chase. The nice, the touchy-feely ads with the tinkly piano, that is now compulsory, as far as I can tell, in every single political ad. Is it in fact the way that the public now perceives the most important information about the candidate, Michael?

MARK MCCURRY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, let me start saying something about Mark McKinnon, in full disclosure, former associate of mine at the firm Public Strategies, and I think Mary would agree, one of the loveliest guys in politics. But, Mary, something that strikes me about all of you who have worked for the Bushes, you do you it as a labor of love. And one thing I wonder about Mark and the team now around Governor Bush's is whether it becomes necessary to take the gloves off and do some of the things that in politics must be done, because choices have to be defined for the voter. People have to have some sense of what the stakes are.

I think the campaign seems to have been, you know, surprised by the fact that Dick Cheney's voting record was going to be called into question. It was almost like The Rock tonight, you know, what was he thinking? Didn't they know that this was going to happen? And I think it's quite legitimate. I mean, Dick Cheney's voting record presents a very real problem for those like Mark McKinnon that are trying to paint a new picture of the Republican Party. It is a raw- bone, hyperconservative record.

MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I've seen Mark since that speech was made, and he still is passionate for Bush. He's not looking 20 years back.

MCCURRY: He better keep his day job.

MATALIN: That's right. Don't go back to Nashville.

Did you notice how much hair all our friends of ours had? That what wasn't all that long ago. Yes, these guys -- what wasn't said in that package is another reason McKinnon gave for going with Bush after working against him. It wasn't just his passion for education; it was what he liked about Bush's positiveness. And they have taken a gamble. Yes this is unconventional. All through the primaries, they were pulling unconventional stunts. And they need to keep positive on this gamble that that's what America wants. They're sick of what they've just been through, and also it plays to their candidate.

You know from all the races we've done together or opposite each other, you've got to go to with you candidate's strengths, and that's Bush's strength.

MCCURRY: But you know, the question the people want the answer to from Dick Cheney tonight is who will show up in the oval office to govern with George Bush if George Bush is elected? Is it going to be that conservative Republican congressman who voted against Nelson Mandela, against terrorist guns, against the Clean Water Act, against Head Start? Or is it going to be the defense secretary?

MATALIN: Can we -- Michael, I'm not going to let you go through this litany of this distorting the record.

MCCURRY: Bill Schneider did it for me.

MATALIN: Hey, Bill, reading from those DNC talking points. Let's take one example, Head Start. He voted for a 16 percent increase in Head Start; Gore voted against it. On the Nelson Mandela vote, 32 Democrats voted with him, including Bill Nelson, whom President Clinton was campaigning with when he said his breath was taken away by the Cheney vote. OK, so if the record is so bad, let's attack the real record, not a distortion of it.

MCCURRY: It only took two or three days, but you all finally got the answer on this.

MATALIN: I will concede this, here's what I absolutely concede. If Dick Cheney wasn't such a good, experienced solid hand, he wouldn't have gone through those earlier interviews. But we've learned something, we've heard a new term tonight, Michael, haven't heard this in six 6 elections -- "hard positive." That's the word for contrast.

MCCURRY: They're going to use that tonight in connection with the economics, and I think it's going to be a very, very difficult case for them to make tonight, if they try to say, you know, somehow or another they're going to do better in economics than the last eight years of the country.

GREENFIELD: Can I throw a question to both of you folks, because I'm going to try to drag it back to where I started, hard as it may be. To take a guy like Dick Cheney, very serious, clearly a grownup, you know, maybe charismatic ally challenged in the kind of slick, blow dried way.

Mary Matalin, since you are an informal adviser of the campaign, could you do an ad for Dick Cheney that tried to sell him as like a guy who's in jeans, with the tinkly piano and watching the sunset? Or do you sell him as a guy, look, he's serious, that's how he is. How far can you change the image?

MATALIN: Well, the image is -- since you are creating the Democrats, rather creating from whole cloth an image of Dick Cheney that doesn't exist, there isn't much to recreate. He is what the Americans remember of him, more than that old record, which was commensurate with where we were then, with secretary of defense. Where is he going to go tonight? He's going to talk about the squandered opportunity, prosperity with a purpose, a purpose that was not met, squandered in the last eight years, on Medicare, on Social Security. The difference that this is what the hard positive is, the contrast, and there is a contrast. Doesn't it bug you that everybody says there is no difference between these two parties, these two candidate. There is a big difference.

MCCURRY: It's bugs me, and that's about time that the Republicans use this convention to define some choices. Now they'll have a hard time doing that tonight, because invisible here at this convention is the Republican congressional leadership. Let's remember that if they make the case that somehow or another we haven't done all that needs to be done over the last eight years, people are going to remember that it's a Republican Congress that stood in the way of some of the on proposals on retirement income security, shoring up Social Security, fixing Medicare, that President Clinton has, in fact, put forward.

MATALIN: It was, Mike. You can't go further than that without inserting this. It was President Clinton at the request of the Democrats in Congress who eschewed the bipartisan Social Security Commission and the Medicare -- bipartisan Medicare Commission, because the Democrats said, no, we want an issue, we don't want a solution. That's what they mean by squandering an opportunity to put purpose to our prosperity.

MCCURRY: "Squander" will be a word that will apply to the tax cut that would take away the opportunity to do something with that. More to follow on all of those issues.

GREENFIELD: Well, don't go away just yet. Since I could not budge Mrs. Matalin off her talking points, we're going to embarrass the two of you by asking you to answer the next three questions in this quiz.


WOODRUFF: Which Bernie and I did well with.

GREENFIELD: Bernie and I did just fine. But we'll see how these experts do. Here we go in our annual, you know, "Who wants to be a political pundit?"

First question, folks: In what year did Ronald Reagan first receive votes for president at a Republican National Convention. Was it 1980, (b) 1976, (c) 1968, (d) 1964 -- Matalin.


GREENFIELD: 1976 -- McCurry.

MCCURRY: I'd say "d," off of his General Electric radio adds.

GREENFIELD: Judy has got it right and you both got it wrong. It was 1968...


GREENFIELD: ... when Reagan and Rockefeller tried to unite, temporarily, to stop Nixon and failed. OK.

MCCURRY: Ladies and gentlemen, it takes nothing to be a television pundit.

MATALIN: We are just trying to make Judy look good. How did we do?

WOODRUFF: Thank you. Thank you. GREENFIELD: And you're doing a heck of job. There we go.

Question two: "Who has run on more national GOP tickets than any other candidate?" Is it (a) Theodore Roosevelt, (b) Thomas Dewey, (c) Richard Nixon or (d) George Bush?


MCCURRY: I would say George Bush, because now you have got two of them!


MATALIN: I'm going to agree with him, because I think that's a trick question, without the middle initial.

GREENFIELD: No, no, no, we talking about, it's the same person. And you are both wrong again. You're consistent. The answer was Richard Nixon, who twice ran for vice president, and thrice ran for president. FDR also...


GREENFIELD: And FDR ran five times, once for VP and four times for president.

MATALIN: You know, we've been doing this, Jeff. You are giving us the hard questions. We've been getting all of them right every night.

MCCURRY: That's right. We were over here laughing at you, so...

GREENFIELD: Here's your chance for redemption. "Gerald Ford" -- lose this one and we have an eject button -- "Gerald Ford chose whom as his vice president after he became president?" Was it Spiro Agnew, (b) Nelson Rockefeller, (c) Bob Dole or (d) Chevy Chase?

MATALIN: B, the twinkie ticket.

MCCURRY: We should have picked Tiger Woods.

GREENFIELD: It was indeed Nelson Rockefeller, whom he dumped just before the 1976 convention to help get conservatives to support him against Ronald Reagan.

Well, folks, I guess we can say about Matalin and McCurry, often wrong, but never in doubt. And we'll be back in a moment.


SHAW: Lots of words and opinions are expressed in this kind of political coverage. A short while ago in that partisan exchange between Mary Matalin and Mike McCurry, something was said that should be underscored and put in a straight sense. At one point, Mary Matalin was referring to Bill Schneider, who, a few moments ago on this network, had done a piece looking at Dick Cheney's 12-year voting record in the House of Representatives.

And at one point, I heard Mary say that Bill Schneider was -- quote -- "reading from those DNC talking points," which of course, our senior analyst does not do. He is a very impartial journalist. And I just want to point that out, that Bill Schneider never reads from any party's information fact book or talking points -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Exactly right.

Well, we have been -- we have a special guest here, and we are going go to him in just a minute. But before we do, we have been telling you this is the new Republican Party, the Republican Party with a new approach. A lot of people at this convention, though -- this is not their first convention -- they have been delegates at other conventions. And Frank Sesno is with one of them right now -- Frank, on the floor.

SESNO: Well, Judy, you know, we have talked an awful low about this convention and how much harmony there is here and how much agreement. And that is all true. There is a lot of harmony and there is a lot of agreement. But there are disciplinarians and enforcers as well, those who coordinate this, keep everybody on the same page and keep them on message.

So I was talking to one of these people you see around here in the orange hats, the whips. They are the ones who kind of keep everybody on that page. And I say: Well, just how is it done? And he said: Well, I can't go on camera. I can't tell you this. But if you look up over there -- and we are going to direct one of the cameras that will slowly go up to what is referred to as the crow's nest -- up in the crow's nest if you look carefully, you will see four people who periodically -- actually quite regularly -- are looking through their binoculars at the floor below.

They are looking to see where there might be crowds gathering. And they look to see -- according to this person I was talking to -- is it an interview or is it something, heaven forbid, unscripted? In any case, they then get on the radio, back to the trailer, which is behind the podium here, and they tell somebody: Look, we see something in the state of Wyoming. And then the organizers converge on the state of Wyoming to check it out, and if it needs a little prodding to do that.

This particular person told me, well, the other day, he had a moment happening here where the delegates were supposed to be on their feet. His delegates looked a little bored. So he came over and said: Up, everybody, pay attention. And they did that. Just so, in case anybody was caught in a camera shot, they would have the appropriate level of enthusiasm. It is a TV show after all and discipline counts.

And I did make one last try, Judy, to see if this person would go on camera. And he said: I would love to help, he said, but we're not allowed.

WOODRUFF: All right, Frank Sesno, and my apologies for that misleading introduction. I had --- the person -- the story you were going to share with us confused with somebody else. We'll get to that other -- that special delegate a little bit later.

SHAW: Isn't it amazing what you could do with a pair of these binoculars?


SHAW: You see -- that's why I have my pair.

WOODRUFF: Bernie, you might want to introduce the gentleman sitting to your right.

SHAW: Hello, Karl Rove. This man is the power behind the Bush thrown. I know you don't like allusions to dynasty...



SHAW: ... and throne. But Karl Rove is Governor Bush's chief campaign strategist. Welcome again to our CNN anchor desk.

ROVE: Thank you, Bernie.

WOODRUFF: What about Frank Sesno's report that this convention, you all have this place so well-organized that there are these signals going back and forth that delegates have to look enthusiastic, they have to be in line, they've got to be doing what you want them doing all the time?

ROVE: Well, I don't know if it's that closely controlled and scripted, but we've got an enthusiastic and well-organized convention. That's right.

SHAW: Don't slouch in your seat.

ROVE: Well, it's made for TV, and I know that you want us to put our best face forward to the American people. So people slouching in their seats and reading newspapers and taking naps is not what you'd like, consider good television.

GREENFIELD: Well, we know that from 1948 they were sending out memos telling people not to read newspapers or to scratch themselves in inappropriate places.

ROVE: In inappropriate places.

GREENFIELD: But you know, there are -- there is some -- I realize that grousing in the popular indoor sport, but I'm talking to not even hard-right conservatives but mainstream conservatives who say, you know, there ought to be at least a little politics here. Maybe we'll get to it tonight. But have you ever seen a convention where not a single delegate has held up a single sign that says anything mildly unpleasant about the other guys? Isn't there anybody there that wants to say, "Hillary go home," or "Gore's a bore," or "Bye-bye, Bill"?

I mean, you seem to have put a Lysol on this entire convention.

ROVE: No, a little subtlety goes a long way: When we talk about restoring dignity and honor to the White House, the American people get it, and there's no need to shout out with a megaphone.

GREENFIELD: But there is -- there's clearly -- I mean, there has to be, just by the evidence, that there is in this hall -- I don't know if it's official, unofficial, wink-wink, nudge-nudge, nobody's supposed to come in here saying something in words that say you guys aren't really who we like. Right? Fair enough?

ROVE: Well, not -- not exactly. I'll say a couple of things about the opposition, if you like, that make -- in sort of an ugly way. But no, look, we've got a limited amount of time to speak to the American people and a big agenda to talk about, and we'd rather spend our time talking about our agenda than trash the other party.

WOODRUFF: When do...

ROVE: And the American people, frankly, would like to hear that from us, too. They'd like to hear it from the Democrats.

WOODRUFF: When -- excuse me. When do you go negative?

ROVE: Well, I'm not certain that we ever go negative. We may defend ourselves, we may counterpunch. But look, the American people are sick and tired of this sort of negative politics. They're tired -- you know, they're tired of the hypocrisy that goes with a lot of it.

You mentioned earlier in the previous segment -- Mary and Mike McCurry were talking about it -- President Clinton goes to Florida to do a fund-raiser for Bill Nelson, Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate, whose ad-maker is Bob Shrum, the Clinton's own ad-maker -- I mean, excuse me, Al Gore's own ad-maker -- and slams Dick Cheney for having voted against a resolution that would have recognized the ANC in South Africa, the African National Congress, and says he's horrified. And yet, Bill Nelson voted the same way as Dick Cheney voted, the man whom Clinton's attacking, and Gore's ad-maker is Nelson's ad-maker.

Now, if he was horrified that Dick Cheney was put on the Republican ticket, you'd think he'd be horrified to be campaigning for Bill Nelson, who voted the same way. But that's -- that's where we've gotten in American politics, and people find it unattractive and unseemly.

GREENFIELD: Fair point. But how about this point? Did in fact, since Dick Cheney was the vetter of all the vice presidents, specifically, who, if anyone, looked at Dick Cheney's voting record? You may well have concluded we can defend it. Did you, did the governor, did someone else? Who did the vetting?

ROVE: Several people looked at it, and look, we knew there were lots of votes that could be misinterpreted. I mean, you saw it on the Head Start issue, where Dick Cheney voted for a bill to increase spending on 16 -- by 16 percent on Head Start, Al Gore voted against it, and yet they took another vote where he voted against a bill that had Head Start funding in it and said he's, you know -- Dick Cheney's against Head Start funding, ignoring the vote that Al Gore cast where he was similarly against it.

So look, our object was this: Dick Cheney needed to walk on to the stage and to be seen as who he is, and to not to walk onto the stage and immediately have us involved in a nit-for-nat argument over votes.

SHAW: I'm curious. Was Dick Cheney vetted as stringently as the people he vetted?

ROVE: You bet, absolutely.

SHAW: You didn't assume that because he had worked under previous presidents that you didn't have to look closely?

ROVE: No, he was absolutely vetted as everyone else was. Now, he had gone through, has had a stringent...


Yes, absolutely. He had gone through, obviously, in his position as secretary of defense three FBI background checks. So he'd been vetted a little bit more by others than -- than the others who went through the process. But no, he was thoroughly vetted.

WOODRUFF: And his years in the oil industry with Halliburton company?

ROVE: You bet, absolutely. In fact, there is an another interesting example. The Clinton/Gore EPA has recognized Halliburton for its environmental consciousness and given them a national award commending them for their environmental awareness...

SHAW: For what? For what?

ROVE: For the policies...

SHAW: For changing the light bulbs, right?

ROVE: No, no. For the policies, for the environmental policies of the company, for the environmental sensitivity of the company. Picked it out and gave it a national award. And yet, here we've got them being slammed by the Clinton-Gore administration, a company that's an environmental leader in the field.

GREENFIELD: Karl, Stu Rothenberg, who's with us, has a comment and or question for you about this whole notion of positive and negative campaigning. Stu?


ROVE: Stu? ROTHENBERG: Karl, you know that -- that voters say that campaigns have become more negative, and you know that Al Gore's negatives are seven, eight points higher than yours, and they have been since February. But Karl, I've known you since you were some political hack doing house...

ROVE: I still am, man. I still am.


ROTHENBERG: And way back then there was a rule -- I think it still holds -- that an attack not denied is an attack believed. How long can George W. Bush stay positive if and when Al Gore and the Democrats go negative, and how will you respond?

ROVE: Well, we'll respond in the right way at the right time. If they go negative on Governor Bush, more negative than they have been, there will be a moment when the counterpunch will come, and it'll be a powerful one.

Look, we've been through this before. Ann Richards in 1993 and 1994 ran a campaign against Governor Bush that belittled him and attacked him, dismissed his program and his agenda, and we waited for the right moment and counterpunched. And when we did, Governor Bush moved ahead of her steadily in the polls and went on to win the largest victory by any candidate for governor since 1974 in Texas.

So you know, we're going to let the record be clearly established that the Gore campaign is running an extremely negative campaign, and then we'll respond.

ROTHENBERG: But Karl, can you motivate your base without driving up your own negatives?

ROVE: Absolutely. Absolutely.

In fact, it's been done. Between 89 and 92 percent of Republicans say that they're committed to vote for Bush for president. The best we've ever been able to do is 1984 when 94 percent of Republicans said they were for Ronald Reagan re-election. Our base is energized, motivated and enthused.

SHAW: These delegates are cheering the arrival of a Bush, a world-famous Bush, former first lady Barbara Bush. .

WOODRUFF: And Karl Rove, as we continue our conversation with you, just to put this in a bigger picture, part of this Bush candidacy is certainly looking ahead, turning a page, moving into the 21st century with the Republican Party.

ROVE: Right.

WOODRUFF: Is the choice of Dick Cheney consistent with that?

ROVE: Oh, sure. This is a man who served the country with great ability, who helped the governor pursue his agenda, and it's a terrific choice. He's a reassuring figure. He's -- people know his stewardship. He knows what leadership requires. He knows the demands of the Oval Office having served under three presidents. And it's a terrific choice. This raises the bar a lot for Al Gore.

GREENFIELD: While you were complaining in the primary about Senator McCain's negative attack in South Carolina, other people through soft money were unleashing some pretty tough things about John McCain, falsely accusing him of opposing breast cancer research, direct mail that was in some cases outright scaverous (ph).

ROVE: Yes.

GREENFIELD: To what extent -- if I may ask you to be really blunt -- can you afford to be positive because you know there will be other voices with other money doing the dirty work for you?

ROVE: Well, I don't think that'll be accurate in the general election. And I mean, I'm not -- I'm certain -- I think the impact of these so-called "negative ads" against either side by third parties in the primaries, whether it was attacks on us or attacks on Senator McCain or attacks on Gore, attacks on Bradley, is vastly overrated. People made, I think, their decisions based on the candidates and their campaigns, and tended to filter out a lot of this third-party trash.

GREENFIELD: Thank you.

SHAW: Karl Rove, thanks very much.

WOODRUFF: Karl Rove, thank you.

SHAW: Good to see you again.

ROVE: Thank you, sir.

WOODRUFF: Great to have you with us. Thanks very much.

And we're going to take a break. When we come back, a look at some of these very interesting people serving as delegates at this Republican Convention.


WOODRUFF: Well, however new the face may be on this Republican Party in the year 2000, there are some delegates who -- here -- who have been around for a while. In fact, Jeanne Meserve is down there with one who was -- who came to his or her first convention when George W. Bush was two years old.

Is that right, Jeanne?

MESERVE: Judy, that is right. I'm sure this man who is with me could answer every question in that political I.Q. test you were administering earlier. His name is Bill Castor. He is an alternate delegate from the state of Michigan. His first convention was 1948. He was an usher. He has been to 10 conventions since. Before we get to the serious stuff, I have to ask you, Mr. Castor, about this tie that you are wearing.

WILLIAM CASTOR, MICHIGAN DELEGATION: Well this necktie, Jeanne, is something that I bought right after the nomination was settled in 1948 at the last convention here in Philadelphia. I was an usher there. It was a really great experience. But I waited until after the nomination was decided before I invested a buck in a necktie.

MESERVE: Only a buck, wow. You have been to 10 conventions.


MESERVE: There are many complaints about this one, that it's a little bit too orchestrated, that there's no controversy, that there's no debate, that there's no competition. Does it make you yearn for the good old days?

CASTOR: I sort of like the good old days as far as conventions were concerned, but I think one has to face it, there are changes in technology and so forth: the importance of television, for example, with conventions.

Also, the structure of this building and many other newer buildings, just doesn't open the way for floor demonstrations and the like, which they used to have in the past. And of course, there's the matter of primary elections and the fact that the candidates are pretty much decided in advance.

So there is a variety of things which can't really be changed.

Another thing which has affected conventions is the matter of security, which just didn't exist in any significant degree years ago .

MESERVE: Mr. Castor, thanks, and I imagine you want a different tone because you're wearing a button here that says "Friends don't let friends fall for nasty Al's slick tricks, so tell the to vote Republican."

With that, I'm going to throw it right back to the booth -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right.

SHAW: And thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve. The first nomination speech tonight for Dick Cheney of Wyoming comes from Jan Laramer (ph), a Wyoming delegate.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MAJORITY LEADER: ... the proud state of Wyoming tonight.

JAN LARAMER, WYOMING DELEGATE TO REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION: Mr. Chairman and fellow delegates to the 2000 Republican national convention, I am proud and honored, to formally submit the name of Dick Cheney -- a man of character, leadership and experience -- as our nominee to be the next vice president of the United States!

(APPLAUSE) GREENFIELD: I remember when the nominating speech for president and vice president was a major part of the convention. They used to be done from the podium. Remember Bill Clinton's nominating speech for Mike Dukakis that I think is still going on. No time for that in the television age.

WOODRUFF: That's right.

SHAW: Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi had just read the rules before delegate Laramer said from the floor, "I am proud and honored" to formally submit," and he's overseeing this procedure.

LOTT: Now, ladies and gentlemen, the chair recognizes the chairman of the Ohio delegation for the purpose of making an introduction.

Mr. Chairman.

JIM DICKEY (ph), OHIO DELEGATE TO REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION: Mr. Chairman, I'm Jim Dickey, a delegate from the great state of Ohio, and I'm proud to have the honor of seconding the nomination of my good friend and the next vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney of Wyoming.


LOTT: All right. Here we go.

Now, pursuant to rule 39(a), a motion to nominate by acclamation is in order, and the chair recognizes the delegate from the state of Washington, for the purpose of offering a motion.


VINCE LOMBARDI (ph), WASHINGTON DELEGATE TO REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION: Mr. Chairman, Vince Lombardi from the great state of Washington. I am proud to move that the nomination of Dick Cheney by the 2000 national Republican convention be made unanimous.


LOTT: Without objection, the previous question is ordered. The question now occurs on the adoption of the motion. All those in favor say aye.


LOTT: All those opposed "no"?


LOTT: Ladies and gentlemen, in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the motion is agreed to!

(APPLAUSE) SHAW: It is official: Dick Cheney of Wyoming now has been nominated by this convention by acclamation.

WOODRUFF: Nominated before George W. Bush. We know who's No. 2 on the ticket already for sure.

GREENFIELD: They are now going appoint a committee to formally notify Dick Cheney, though if he doesn't know he's the nominee for vice president we have some serious questions to raise about his competency to be vice president.

WOODRUFF: Well, since we've been handed an advance copy of his address here that we can't release until he speaks it, we have a feeling he knows.

Things may be getting a little out of control here. Beach balls.

GREENFIELD: Perhaps it's a tribute to Newt Gingrich and that speech four years ago celebrating beach volleyball, a subtle reminder of the former speaker of the House of Representatives.

WOODRUFF: Strobe lights.

SHAW: They're trotting out more musical equipment. Feels like we're in Motown, Jeff and Judy, this week.

GREENFIELD: Well, I'll tell you one thing, Bernie and Judy, the music at this convention is certainly a different kind of Republican music. I can remember when the Johnny Mann (ph) Singers and Up With People were about as far out as it went. We've had rap artists, we've had rhythm and blues. We've had a different kind of musical convention.

SHAW: Well, Harold Melvin's Blue Notes...

WOODRUFF: The Blue Notes.

SHAW: ... that just, that lays me out.


A nice Latin beat here at this convention. Ariba, ariba, George Bush might say.

GREENFIELD: Believe it or not this is actually something that happens at every convention. There's a certain point at which you want the delegates to get a sense of energy. You'll remember four years ago at the Democratic convention the "Macarena" was virtually the semi-official anthem of that convention, because part of what happens here -- and it has always happened at conventions -- is they want the delegates to have a sense of fun.

WOODRUFF: Well, as Bernie said, this Latin beat. Do you think it's a bid for the Hispanic vote, Jeff? What do you think?

SHAW: Well, I'm not Jeff but I was going to say something else. Jeff, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Jeff.

GREENFIELD: No, I think in fact the folks who select music select from a wide variety. They do, do this to make everybody feel welcome. There are certain songs they have to worry about because of the titles that may have some political implications.

And let's go down to the floor now and see if John King is salsing the night away.

KING: Well, Jeff, I'm standing by the very happy Wyoming delegation at the moment, just took the first beach ball in the head at this convention. A bit of a party down here on the floor, as you mentioned, for the first time.

Dick Cheney has been criticized roundly by the Democrats in recent days, but he is one reason delegates on floor here are quite happy. Many conservatives grumbling a little bit that they have not heard their issues discussed from the platform, but in Mr. Cheney they see a member of the grassroots conservative Republican Party. So as he is formally nominated here tonight, the first time we've seen a great deal of floor demonstrations, and especially here in Wyoming, all the delegates wearing a royal blue shirt. They say it was the signature color that Dick Cheney wore when he was running for Congress in Wyoming. They all wore those shirts tonight so that they could find him here in the Wyoming delegation when he speaks later.

For more on the floor demonstration, I go across the floor to my colleague, Frank Sesno.

SESNO: And it's a very noisy floor, John, very hard to hear yourself think, never mind put thoughts together, but I think I can do that. What I wanted to throw in here was the sense of mission for Dick Cheney this evening.

Talking to a number of people on the floor, delegates, and those who have been talking to him throughout the day, a sense that he's got to really introduce himself despite the interviews that he's done over the past several days.

This is all building to Dick Cheney. It's all building to this speech. And to extent that the country is watching -- and it's important to point out that not only on CNN, but yes, in fact on other networks -- we hope you won't go there; stay right where you are, here -- but the country will have an extraordinary opportunity to hear this man.

So what has he got to do? He's got to, without addressing them directly, confront some of these charges that the Democrats have leveled about him, and he'll be doing that, but also drawing a sharp contrast between himself and what he and George W. Bush represent and the Democrats who are there now.

Squandered opportunities will be one of the themes in that speech, and from what I gather from these delegates I have been speak with tonight, he will be very, very eagerly received, almost no matter what he says. Let's go back up to the booth.

GREENFIELD: Thank you, Frank.

We've heard a lot about how professional politicians have been rendered relatively invisible at this convention. When we come back, we're going to take a look at a delegate who is proud to be a professional politician, in a moment.


GREENFIELD: For some of the delegates here, politics is a pastime. For some, it is a passion. For some, it is a sense of civic responsibility. We want to you meet someone for whom politics is all that and more, someone who is proud to wear the label of professional politician.


JOSEPH BRUNO, NEW YORK DELEGATE: Riding a horse. He's a little bit spunky. OK, if we go look at the horse. We get the horse, get Apache?

GREENFIELD (voice-over): For Joseph Bruno, raising horses began as a fantasy more than 60 years ago.

BRUNO: How is the big guy.

GREENFIELD: Growing up as immigrant son in Glens Fall, New York.

BRUNO: As a kid, I grew up in a coal miner flat literally with no central heat, one of eight children. My father immigrated over and went to work when he was 14. The one thing that as a child that I always remembered is going to the movies, the cowboy movies, convicts (ph), later Roy Roger. Horses were so far beyond my reach, that I have a dream when I was in college, when I was in Korea, was to have a horse.

GREENFIELD: But if rounding up horses is a joy, the work that consumes him is rounds up votes.

BRUNO: How are you, Ron? That a boy, good. Where are you? Up north?

It just seems to me there ought to be some dialogue.

GREENFIELD: Joseph Bruno is the majority leader of the New York state senate, A body he was first elected to nearly a quarter century ago.

With the power he yields...

BRUNO: Madam President, I offer up another resolution.

GREENFIELD: He is, by most accounts, the second most powerful political figure in New York State, and even fellow Republican Governor George Pataki has found him a formidable ally, then, on occasion, an even more formidable adversary.

BRUNO: This is real work, I have to tell you.

GREENFIELD: Part of it is physical. At 71, the one-time boxer climbs the nine flights of stairs to his office every day, leaving aides a generation younger gasping.

BRUNO: My days are extremely long, and I always felt that you had to be physically fit in order to live those days. So walking the stairs, to me, is kind of a way of life. I don't like taking elevators. I don't want to wait for an elevator.

GREENFIELD: And part of it is sheer doggedness. From his office to the Senate floor to the phones to the bill signings and the ribbon cuttings, there is a demand for his time that simply does not end.

BRUNO: There are certainly times when you wish that you could be doing some other things, like today's a beautiful day, the sun is shining, it might be nice to be there out on the golf course, but it becomes part of your life. I was helpful in creating this affordable housing for seniors. I take great pride in that, and so it's something to be proud of. I participate in the ribbon-cutting for this facility. So sure, it gets tiring. Sure, there are times when you feel, you're like, who needs it? But it's all part of your life.

GREENFIELD: It's a political lesson Bruno learned as a kid in back Glens Falls, watching a local committeeman named Pete Fiori.

BRUNO: If the snow wasn't removed, you know, on your street, you went to Peter. If the fields out there weren't cut and the city was supposed to cut it, you went to Peter. Any favors, anything at all that people looked for, you went to Peter.

GREENFIELD: And maybe that memory is why Bruno is an unashamed partisan of partisan politics.

BRUNO: I believe very strongly in political parties. I think if we didn't have organizations, you'd have more government of the elite, such as we used to have hundreds of years ago, where you were almost born to be in leadership positions or in charge, whether you were qualified or not.

GREENFIELD: He also has a deep affection for the energy, the sheer excitement of political conventions. He attended his first one back in 1968, and the memory of that floor never left him.

BRUNO: It was jam-packed, and I mean, the noise levels, and you could hardly move. Everybody practically was smiling and slapping people on the back and shaking hands. It was just a thrill,

GREENFIELD: And so for Joseph Bruno, most of his life is lived at the white-hot center of New York State politics.

BRUNO: This is where it pays off, right here. When you pass laws, that's really what you're trying to do, is to affect people in some positive way, to improve the quality of their lives, and this is where that takes place.

GREENFIELD: And where the temptations of a less contentious, easier life are for another day.

BRUNO: Is it worth it to continue and to stay in it? And sometimes that's a hard question to answer for yourself and your family. But I can only say that if you've got the feeling that you want to be in public service, that you want to relate to people, then it's kind of almost like a calling, and that's the best way I can describe it. I have felt that compulsion to be there.


WOODRUFF: From Upstate New York to Philadelphia on the convention floor, Candy Crowley with Senator Joseph Bruno -- Candy.

CROWLEY: Mr. Bruno, we've just heard a piece about your political root. Tell me, you've been here since two conventions -- 1968. What is different about this convention from any of the others you have attended?

BRUNO: Well, this is my sixth convention, and I think really, there's a spirit. There's an electrifying attitude that's here, the high, high energy, where people just seem so committed and so really together and unified that they want to be together for George Bush because they really feel that this country needs the message that he's delivering -- the togetherness, the unity, the going forward.

CROWLEY: Now you -- I know that most politicians at least, the good ones that succeed, have very good gut feelings. So you know, we talked a lot about how they wanted this to be a united convention, they want people to be happy. How much of it is real, you can tell us?

BRUNO: It is real. When you look around this floor, and you see there is probably 15,000, 18,000 people, they are together. They are enthused. They are happy. George Bush is delivering the right message, Dick Cheney tonight will the deliver the right message, the message that people want to hear. George Pataki our governor sets the tone in New York that goes across the whole United States. Rick Lazio our congressman, who is going to be the next United States senator, is following the message of George Bush. They are going to be one great team, in New York and across this country.

CROWLEY: Now, let me ask you, we haven't seen much of Congressman Lazio over the course of time of this convention. Why hasn't he been here, because of course the perception is and the judgment is that he's not here because in New York, it's pretty hard to run as a Republican?

BRUNO: Well, that's not so at all. He got one of the greatest ovations in this convention when our chairman, Bill Powers, talked about him and his race. So I believe Rick Lazio has the acceptance in New York. He will be the next United States senator.

CROWLEY: OK, one-word answer, which race are you most excited about. Bush-Gore or Clinton-Lazio?

BRUNO: Well, in my life, it's the Lazio race, and I hope that he will partner with Bush.

CROWLEY: Thanks very much. Back to you in the booth.

WOODRUFF: All right, Candy. We're watching the politicians compete with the entertainment, but we're also watching politicians who are the entertainment. The man singing and playing the guitar is none other than Congressman Joe Scarborough, who also happens to know how to sing and play the guitar.

SHAW: The one in the white pants there.


SHAW: In the VIP box, here at this convention, that's Connie Stevens sitting in front of Barbara Bush. And at the floor that they're all looking at, Frank Sesno can tell you at any convention, you never know who you're going to run into there -- Frank.

SESNO: I've run into Karen Hughes. She's the spokeswoman for the Bush campaign. Your first night here on the floor. What's the governor up to tonight?

KAREN HUGHES, BUSH CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think he's in a dinner. He went to a dinner with his family. There are about 60 of them in town, and he went to a dinner with them. And then he's going to watch the convention from his hotel room, and watch as the delegates nominate him. And then he'll also watch Secretary Cheney give his speech from there.

And then, of course, he'll be here tomorrow night. He's really looking forward to the speech tomorrow night.

SESNO: Tee-up his speech for us. What's he working on?

HUGHES: Well, he's working on his speech, still. It's pretty much in final form, but he is going through it. He's done some practice delivery of it. He's really looking forward to it, because it's an opportunity for him to tell America that we face a unique moment to really tackle some tough problems before they become crises for our children, and that we've got a unique leader to help us to do that, to really bring Republicans and Democrats together to solve some of those problems.

SESNO: How directly will he join the battle with Mr. Gore?

HUGHES: Well, he will -- he will needle him a little, in a good- spirited way. And I think he also will, in a regretful tone, talk about the last seven or eight years, those years of missed opportunity, that there's been a lot of talk about saving Social Security or providing prescription drug coverage for Medicare, but it hasn't happened.

And so, it's been a -- seven or eight years of opportunities missed. And he's going to talk about seizing those opportunities to get results for a better America.

SESNO: You told me he spoke with Mrs. Ford today, was at the hospital with her husband.

HUGHES: He did speak with Mrs. Ford to extend his thoughts and prayers to President Ford. Obviously, that's a -- we're all thinking about President Ford and wishing him a speedy recovery. He called her as soon as he arrived at his hotel this afternoon. And she had some encouraging news, she said, she's encouraged by what the doctors are telling her. And he assured her that his thoughts and prayers are with them.

SESNO: Karen Hughes, thank you very much.

HUGHES: Thanks, Frank.

SESNO: Appreciate your time.

Let's go back up to the booth.

SHAW: Thank you, Frank. This gentlemen to our right is former Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady, from 1988-1993, and Dick Cheney was on the telephone. He called you?


SHAW: Dick Cheney called you?

BRADY: No, no, no, his people called me and asked me to come tonight, and I had not planned to come to the convention.

SHAW: How do you feel about this?

BRADY: Well, I feel good about it, and I feel particularly good about Dick coming, and I think their are to plights to the process. One is before the election, where the nominee has to pick someone that instantaneously people says, yes, he can be president. And I think, even given different political views, everyone is ready to say Dick Cheney knows how to be president. But that's a great choice. But the really fantastic choice is the fact this man was chief of staff to President Ford. He would have been the majority -- he would have been speaker of the house if he hadn't taken the secretary of defense place, and then, of course, he was secretary of defense. I can't think of anybody who really knows more about the process.

WOODRUFF: What about, Nick Brady, the argument that some have made, that even though he's just, what, six years older than George W. Bush, he's almost more a part of President Bush's generation, because he was part of the Ford administration, secretary of defense in the Bush administration, that he's part of that generation, and therefore, what does that say about Governor Bush's attempts to look ahead and look forward?

BRADY: Well, Judy, I think that, you know, certainly generational considerations are important, but I really go back to what I said, the most important thing to get the confidence of the American people is to have when you name a vice president, have everybody say, yes, he can do it. I don't think there is any argument about that, politics aside, and then, I think Governor Bush is looking past the election, and saying, you know, I want somebody by my side who knows the rope, I didn't come from Washington; this man has more experience than anybody in the process. So I think, governmentally, he's a real surprise, where he's going to be helped.

SHAW: Last question: Can Vice President Al Gore -- you were former treasury secretary. Can Vice President Al Gore legitimately make a claim on part of this economy's success?

BRADY: Well, I think so. But you're certainly asking somebody that's got strong feelings about the matter. I think there isn't any question that the Bush administration turned the economy around. It didn't turn -- although the fourth quarter of '92 was a 4 percent up. But I think, you know, the Savings & Loan problem was taken care of, third world debt, and the Budget Act of 1990, whether you like it or don't like it, as a political matter, put the Congress in irons where they couldn't spend more than came in.

So I would say give everybody credit, but give plenty of credit to George Bush, who I know personally felt that raising taxes was going to be extremely difficult for him, and he did it anyway for the good of the country. I was there. He told me Brady, he said, the trouble for you is you never ran for sheriff. I said, well, no, Mr. President, but this is the right thing for the country, and he said, OK, we'll do it.

SHAW: He was quoting speaker Sam Rayburn. You're going to be in Dick Cheney's box.

BRADY: Yes, I am indeed.

SHAW: Good to have you.

WOODRUFF: Well, we thank you coming up and visiting with us.

BRADY: Thank you. Great to see you. You're doing a great job.


SHAW: Thank you. Appreciate it. Good to see you again.

GREENFIELD: In a few moments, we will be joined by, in fact in a moment or two, by the governor of Florida, Jeb Bush, who is a close relative of the nominee to be.

But before we take a break, we're going to go down on the floor and meet and even younger, newer Bush -- to the floor.

CROWLEY: Hi, Jeff, it's Candy Crowley.

Pierce Bush, son of Neil. Right? Fourteen years old?

PIERCE BUSH, NEPHEW OF GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes, ma'am. CROWLEY: So are you a political pro? Is this your first convention?

PIERCE BUSH: I've been to two so far. This will be my third. And this one, although I was young at the other ones, this by far has had the most positive in the air. It's very inclusive. They're including all different kinds of people.

CROWLEY: OK. Now tell me, when you sit down -- like your dad said you could come down here and talk to us. Like who -- how do you know all this stuff?

PIERCE BUSH: How do I know like what kind of stuff?

CROWLEY: How do you know to say that this is an inclusive convention...


PIERCE BUSH: ... family. So -- and you can just tell by the different speakers that are there. There's even a pro-choice guy that's speaking. So there are all kinds of people.

CROWLEY: Do you talk about this stuff over the dinner table?

PIERCE BUSH: Sometimes, I mean, with my dad usually. It's...

CROWLEY: How about -- how about with your Uncle George?

PIERCE BUSH: At big family things, you know, he kind of likes to be left alone from politics, given a break. Sometimes it's brought up a little, but...

CROWLEY: But so he likes a break. So what -- you know, when you and Uncle George are hanging out, what do you talk about?

PIERCE BUSH: Baseball. He's a big Rangers fan. I live in Houston, so I'm an Astros fan.


PIERCE BUSH: And we used to argue about that, the Texas showdown.


CROWLEY: So do you think -- you know, is this like -- do you know P., your cousin?

PIERCE BUSH: Who? George P.?


PIERCE BUSH: Yes, he's my cousin.

CROWLEY: Yes. And so are you guys in a competition kind of for who can...

PIERCE BUSH: No. No, no, no.


CROWLEY: ... the campaign?

PIERCE BUSH: Not at all. He has had incredible press this year, and it's pretty good to watch him grow in politics. Because you know, he'll be the first guy there. That's what I think.

CROWLEY: Now, you know, Pierce, like a lot of young people don't like politics that much. And you do it because it's sort of a family thing. But how -- why should young people be interested in politics? What do you think your uncle's going to do that actually would matter to a 14-year-old?

PIERCE BUSH: Well, he's going to restore dignity in the office. People can actually -- our young children can respect the office of the presidency, which has not been the case for the past eight or seven years.

CROWLEY: And do you have any aspirations for political office?



PIERCE BUSH: ... you don't really know.

CROWLEY: You kind of sound like a politician, though?

PIERCE BUSH: It runs in the family. What can I say?

CROWLEY: It does run in the family. You're right about that.


CROWLEY: Pierce Bush, thank you so much for joining us.

PIERCE BUSH: Thank you.

CROWLEY: Tell me just one thing. What do you call your uncle? Uncle George?

PIERCE BUSH: I call him Uncle George. Sometimes I call him "gov" as a joke, but you know, now I'll call him "prez."


CROWLEY: OK. Thanks. Pierce Bush, back to you all.


GREENFIELD: I tell you, thank god there's a child labor law, we'd all be out of work. (LAUGHTER)

SHAW: And among those laughing at the interview, young Pierce Bush's uncle.

WOODRUFF: Other uncle.

SHAW: Who's the governor of Florida, Jeb Bush.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: Can I say something about Pierce? Pierce is the kind of guy that would get on the floor of the Houston Rockets when the Rocketettes during the timeout would get out and dance, and get out and dance with them. So he's kind of an extrovert, and he proved it just then.

SHAW: This house is full of Bushes tonight.

Let me ask a serious question to lead off. President Clinton has been slamming your brother. Your father has really had it up to here and he's indicated if Clinton keeps it up, he's going to start (AUDIO GAP).

How do you feel deep down in here about those criticisms of your brother?

J. BUSH: Well, I think it -- I think what angers my dad isn't that my brother's been criticized, because there are a whole lot of people on the Gore team that criticize my brother, that's part of the -- part of the process. It's that the president of the United States is doing it in his last year of office.

The office is what my dad respects. And you know, I mean you saw him in action. And he's not a perfect man, he wasn't a perfect politician. But I tell you what, no one respected the office of the presidency more than him. And when a president stoops down to get back into the fray, which President Clinton can't help himself to do, I think he got angered by it. But I don't think you're going to see him doing some kind of tag team, Vince McMahon deal here. I think we're OK.

I think he realizes that this is George's fight, and he's doing really well.

WOODRUFF: Governor Bush, a lot of -- of course there's been comment throughout about whether your brother is ready to be president. He's been governor of a big state, but, as everyone knows, it's a weak governor system in the state of Texas, unlike the state of Florida. Has he had enough experience to serve in the most important job in the world?

J. BUSH: Well, I think people will see it. I think there -- you all have said it and I think it's not a bad measurement to determine whether someone has the right stuff. You've got the primary campaign. You've got the selection of the vice president. You've got the speech that he'll...


Four great measurements to determine whether someone has the right stuff to be president.

My brother has grown into this. I've seen it. It's really kind of exciting to watch. He's been an incredibly capable governor. But during the last months, I've seen him grow into become a president. And I think others have seen it as well, and that's why he's leading in the polls.

He's confident. He acts like a president. He talks like a president. I'm almost -- you know it's kind of weird because now he's my brother, and I love him more than life, but now I'm kind of like -- it's more than that now. It's more. And people will see that, and when they do, they will have confidence that he will be a great president.

GREENFIELD: There is a news magazine out that describes your brother -- and I guess his father, your whole family, is the avengers, the idea that there's feeling -- this is why I'm asking -- there's a feeling that your father was shocked at losing to Bill Clinton because he was the governor of Arkansas where your father had just won the Gulf War. And in some sense, he was illegitimate and that it's only right that your family, in some sense, have to fight for it and get it back.

J. BUSH: No. You know, this is not a family thing. This is not a dynasty thing. This is not a revenge thing. My brother has in his heart the desire to serve, and he has served with distinction as the governor of Texas and he wants to serve on a bigger stage. And I think he'll do a great job.

Now, having said that, I think there are a whole lot of people in this country, and you'll hear it -- there's not a single criticism of President Clinton in the speeches. But whenever there's an allusion to bringing decency and honor and dignity back to the White House, this place goes wild. And there are a whole lot of people in bars and in kitchen tables all over the country that think the same thing.

And that doesn't relate to anything personal. That relates to a love of our country and a belief that irrespective if you're a liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat that things can be better in the White House.

SHAW: Well, down there on the floor among these delegates there's a love of your mother.

J. BUSH: Yes, there is.

SHAW: A love of your mother.

J. BUSH: Also the streets of Philadelphia.

SHAW: Well, your brother says that he has his father's looks and his mother's mouth. What have you? J. BUSH: I don't know. I've tried to figure that out. I think that's an accurate description of George. I don't know what I've got, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the milkman.


WOODRUFF: Governor, when your very articulate nephew was talking a minute ago and entertaining all of us, you said he's on message.

This convention is really on message.

J. BUSH: It is.

WOODRUFF: Would it have been a little bit healthier and a little bit more real to let some real debate bubble up here, just for a few minutes?

J. BUSH: Well, we had a debate in the primary about the course of the Republican Party. And the convention is the culmination of the renewal of the party. The candidate ought to dominate the convention, I believe.

We're no longer in the era where delegates are selected at large or by party bosses. They're selected by primaries. And so we're in a different era, and this should be the culmination of renewing a party and its message and its agenda, and the candidate ought to decide and kind of define the party.

And thankfully, we have a candidate that has redefined the Republican Party in a way that will be very positive in November.

SHAW: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Governor Jeb Bush. Thank you very much.

GREENFIELD: You should be known of the uncle of that young man we heard just a few minutes ago.

WOODRUFF: Of Pierce.

J. BUSH: George P.

GREENFIELD: There you go.

For the next hour, you're going to be hearing from LARRY KING LIVE. When we -- there will be the roll call that, to nobody's surprise, puts Bush over the top. We'll be hearing from Elizabeth Dole, Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, all that plus a phone call from Nancy Reagan next, with the King, not The Rock, but the King, "LARRY KING LIVE." We'll be back at 10:00 Eastern Time.



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