ad info

 
CNN.comTranscripts
 
Editions | myCNN | Video | Audio | Headline News Brief | Feedback  

 

  Search
 
 

 

TOP STORIES

Bush signs order opening 'faith-based' charity office for business

Rescues continue 4 days after devastating India earthquake

DaimlerChrysler employees join rapidly swelling ranks of laid-off U.S. workers

Disney's GO.com is a goner

(MORE)

MARKETS
4:30pm ET, 4/16
144.70
8257.60
3.71
1394.72
10.90
879.91
 


WORLD

U.S.

POLITICS

LAW

TECHNOLOGY

ENTERTAINMENT

 
TRAVEL

ARTS & STYLE



(MORE HEADLINES)
 
CNN Websites
Networks image


Crossfire

How Will Talk Radio Affect Election 2000?

Aired November 1, 2000 - 7:30 p.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Let's be nice here. You're on WABC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MATALIN, CO-HOST: Tonight: talking the talk. With just six days to go, what are talk radio listeners saying about George W. Bush and Al Gore and Ralph Nader?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RALPH NADER, GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Take the votes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATALIN: And is talk radio still a political force?

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press; on the right, Mary Matalin. In the crossfire, radio talk-show host Janet Parshall, a Bush supporter; and in Los Angeles, KRLA radio talk-show host Michael Jackson, a Gore supporter.

MATALIN: Good evening and welcome to CROSSFIRE. Florida was supposed to be a Republican route and Minnesota a Democratic lay-down; but with less than a week left, the presidential contenders challenge conventional wisdom, campaigning on their opponent's turf.

Al Gore blasted Governor George Bush in Governor Jeb Bush's home state of Florida; and Bush promised an upset in Minnesota, which hasn't voted Republican since Nixon's '72 landslide. Wisconsin -- another democratic stronghold up for grabs because of Ralph Nader -- hosted the consumer advocate today, who railed against, well, everyone even remotely associated with the establishment.

So while the candidates, their commercials and their ground troops close out the big contest, what are the real soldiers of democracy doing, the ones that wage war on talk radio every hour every day? How do they see the battle lines, and is talk radio still the potent predictor of political fate.

Bill Press will be in "THE SPIN ROOM" all week with Tucker Carlson at 10:00 p.m. Sitting in for our resident lefty, a liberal icon, Brandeis professor Robert Reich. Welcome professor.

ROBERT REICH, GUEST HOST: Mary, how are you this evening?

MATALIN: Doing great.

REICH: You know, I like that "soldiers of democracy" business. In fact, I have a question for Janet Parshall, a soldier of democracy radio talk-show host.

Janet, yesterday Al Gore accused George W. Bush, if you can believe this, of indulging in class warfare. Let's take a look at this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT: What he is actually proposing, let's be plain about it, is a massive redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest few. It is, in fact, a form of class warfare on behalf of billionaires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REICH: "On behalf of billionaires." Now, Janet Parshall, you soldier of the democracy, isn't this a fair comment? If you look at the tax cut that George W. is promising -- mostly going to the wealthy; he wants to get rid of estate and gift taxes, again, mostly for the wealthy. Isn't this, sort of, a form of class warfare, Janet?

JANET PARSHALL, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, absolutely not; and, Mr. Secretary, my eyes would probably glaze over with all the funny figures that get tossed around in this town. But I do understand kitchen table economics, and here's what I know: If I don't have the money in my checkbook, I don't get to spend it. And if I sent too much to Washington, I want it back; and that's the difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush.

George W. Bush says, quite simply and understandably, to the American public, that don't talk wonkese like Al Gore: Look, the bottom line is, if you pay taxes, you get a break, period, end of statement. And the American public who don't have Ph.D.s in economics understand that stuff.

REICH: You sound like a radio talk-show host. I can't put my finger on it. A lot of -- if I listen to talk radio, here's what I hear all the time: It's my money. It's my money; that's what I hear all over talk radio but, actually, who pays for the schooling that enables people to really be productive, for the highways, for the ports, for the bridges, for national defense that gives us stability so this economy can grow -- why is this ideology of "it's my money" so powerful on talk radio?

PARSHALL: Well, because that would be the facts. Now, when you are here in Washington, Mr. Secretary, you toured the White House a time or two and you can tell folks there's no tree in the Rose Garden that grows this stuff. It came here because of hardworking Americans who spend it and then send it up here; and, you know, a lot of Americans are saying, come on, give me a break today, especially married folks. They're saying how come we couldn't get this simple break, $1,400 once a year, just because we did the right thing; we're not living in sin, we're a husband and a wife -- and guess what, Mr. Clinton turned it down and Al Gore said, I'd do it too.

MICHAEL JACKSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Wait a minute, is this woman...

MATALIN: Michael, it's your turn now. Can I ask you a question first? I know you're a superior talker, but let me ask, you answer, OK, because I'm -- and I'm going to get to substance, but a big issue this cycle has been style; specifically Vice President Gore's style. Today, Governor Bush had this to say about a substantive issue, but it incorporated an issue of style, which I'm hearing a lot talked about on talk radio. Listen to this sound byte please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He says he's committed to cutting government. He says he won't hire even one more new government employee. Think about that: 285 new or expanded programs, $2 trillion dollars more in new spending and not one new bureaucrat to file out the forms or answer the phones? Let me tell you what I think: I think he might be exaggerating again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATALIN: Now, Michael, really, aren't your callers in the least bit concerned, because callers I hear on talk radio bring up the propensity for exaggeration of the vice president hourly, minute by minute?

JACKSON: Wait a minute, if -- and this was pointed out in "The New York Times" by Paul Krugman. If Gore gets elected, 3.2 million Americans are going to die next year; if he doesn't get elected, 3.2 million Americans will die next year. They take semi-facts and exaggerate. When the man says, "I'm a uniter, not a divider," what in Hades does he mean by that? I want substance from Bush before I could ever dream of voting for the man.

MATALIN: Well, Michael, I -- OK, I'm not going to -- if you want substance, you can choke on substance if you read any of the policy speeches or listened to them.

Let me go to a Bush commercial which lays out substance of Social Security, which is the boldest reform package put on the table in a generation, certainly the boldest by a Republican Party. This is the latest Bush spot. Please take a listen to this -- for substance and style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, BUSH CAMPAIGN AD)

NARRATOR: Remember when Al Gore said his mother-in-law's prescription cost more than his dogs? His own aides said the story was made up. Now Al Gore is bending the truth again. The press calls Gore's Social Security attacks nonsense. Governor Bush sets aside $2.4 trillion to strengthen Social Security and pay all benefits.

GORE: There has never been a time in this campaign when I have said something that I know to be untrue. There has never been a time when I've said something untrue.

NARRATOR: Really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATALIN: OK, there is substance all over the floor of this campaign, Michael, but an issue...

JACKSON: No, we're not voting on that.

MATALIN: ... of great substance for voters, for a president -- let me ask the question -- is can they trust the man that they're going to sit in the Oval Office? And people do not trust Vice President Gore. Don't...

JACKSON: You want to trust a man...

MATALIN: You're telling me your callers never raise that?

JACKSON: You want to trust a man who didn't grow up until he was 40, a man who had a drinking problem, a man who caroused, a man who was governor with wonderful napping habits in the afternoon and who loved to jog. He doesn't like detail. He isn't deep. He has -- I have plumed his shallows, a man without much in the way of substance.

I say to you in answer, you want substance, this man -- the vice president has been a vital part of an administration for eight years, during which we have seen America thrive and grow, the economy has grown, unemployment is down, employment is up, the welfare rolls are down, we are the mightiest military in the entire world and all we get from Bush is this disastrous cry about a demoralized military. We are the envy of the whole world, we want to continue that way. That's substance.

MATALIN: Just a quick clarification.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: ... I would love to ask Bush.

MATALIN: One quick clarification.

REICH: Janet...

MATALIN: Excuse me, Professor.

By caroused -- I don't want to let this sit -- by caroused you mean the governor dated before he was married, because is that now off limits for candidates?

JACKSON: No.

MATALIN: What do you mean?

JACKSON: No. I think...

MATALIN: I mean, you can't just say something like that on the air.

JACKSON: All right, then, if I have the chance to question him -- he used to be a drinker, had a drinking problem, he brought that up last evening and he made points, because he showed he was human -- Mr. President, if you make it to the White House, are you sure that under pressure you won't drink again? Now, is that a rude question? It's not being asked.

(CROSSTALK)

REICH: Wait, wait, wait.

JACKSON: You may think it's a low blow, I don't.

PARSHALL: Grabbing the face mask, 15 yard clipping penalty.

REICH: May I break in here just for one question.

JACKSON: Hey, you are the host. Go ahead.

REICH: I do want to -- hold it, wait a minute.

I do want to pursue this business of substance, because a lot of people when they look at George W., they see -- and I hate to use the term pejoratively -- but they see a lightweight.

Let's take a quick look at what Joe Lieberman said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think on balance, Governor Bush is not ready, with all respect, at this point to be the kind of president that America needs and Al Gore is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REICH: Now, Janet, what do you think about...

(CROSSTALK)

REICH: I mean, is he a lightweight, or is he a lightweight? I have to choose between those two options.

PARSHALL: Are we talking about Al Gore here? Now, this would be the same Al Gore who when questioned...

REICH: We're talking about George W.

PARSHALL: This would be the same Al Gore who when questioned on whether or not he went after George W. Bush's experience lied within the first 90 seconds of the debate. That takes us back to exactly the discussion that Michael was just having.

REICH: Janet...

PARSHALL: That's why a lot of people, Mr. Secretary...

REICH: Wait a minute, we want to talk about George W. and the lightweight -- listen to this, this is on whether Social Security recipients will receive the same benefits under his plan -- this is George W.'s response -- then under current system. George W.'s response is, "maybe, maybe not." On his budget proposal -- this is George W.'s response on his budget proposals -- quote -- "It's clearly a budget, it's got a lot of numbers in it."

PARSHALL: I'm so glad you brought up budget. Let's talk figures.

REICH: Janet -- Janet, is this -- is this a heavyweight or what here?

PARSHALL: Mr. Secretary, I think what we have to do is take a look at Mr. Al Gore here. Remember during the course of the debate George W. Bush looked at Al Gore...

REICH: You're changing the topic of discussion.

PARSHALL: No, it's right on topic, Mr. Secretary. During the debates, Mr. Bush looked at Mr. Gore and said, look, you're proposing the largest increase in federal spending since we've seen in some time. Mr. Gore looked and pontificated to the American public and, absolutely not. The next day, what comes out? The report from the Commission for a Responsible Federal Budget. One of the commissioners happens to be a gentleman you know, Mr. Leon Panetta. And what does he say? Yes, Al Gore's proposals will give us the biggest spending since LBJ and the Great Society.

Truth, truth, truth, and character will be the cornerstone of this election.

JACKSON: Just a point on social security, if I may -- and I respect your comment. I think it's true that Social Security will very definitely need transfers from general revenues if Mr. Gore's plan is put into effect. But isn't it true -- and I ask you, secretary. Can one ask the host a question? -- it will need just as much money if Mr. Gore's plan isn't put into effect?

REICH: Michael, I'm supposed to be asking the questions. For the first time in our relationship, you are responding to questions. I think this is great. I love it.

JACKSON: Well, then...

REICH: But wait a minute. No, no, no. Look, on Social Security, it's very clear that George W. Bush's plan is going to bankrupt the Social Security system. He's taking a million -- a trillion dollars out of the system and giving it to people to put in the stock market. It's a casino. But I'm asking questions, not you. MATALIN: OK. Well, Professor Reich, you are not spinning for the campaign, and Michael Jackson, you apparently are. Look, the debate doesn't stop here, friends. You can debate with both of them. It goes online. Tonight's guests take your questions after the show at cnn.com/crossfire. And we haven't even gotten to the third contender, who may be the most important contender in this race -- that is in determining its outcome. That is Ralph Nader, who has plenty to say about both of the major party contenders.

Listen to this, and we'll be back on that topic when we return on CROSSFIRE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RALPH NADER, GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If anybody asks you, well, after the election day, would you be sorry if George W. Bush was elected? Here's my answer: I'll be very sorry if either of them are elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REICH: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE, I'm Robert Reich, sitting in for Bill Press. We have 6 days to go until election day.

Tonight, we are hearing from those great tribunes of democracy, the people who have their pulse on America: talk show hosts, that great sparkling tribute to free speech in America, the great talk radio show. And we have two guests with us tonight who exemplify the best of talk radio. And one is Janet Parshall, who is in Washington, D.C. tonight. And also with us, Michael Jackson from Los Angeles -- Mary.

MATALIN: Michael, not only do you have your pulse on America, you have your personal thumb on the pulse of a very surprising development in this race and that's Ralph Nader, very significant factor in California where you broadcast. I don't know if have you had a chance to see his new commercial. Let's air this for our viewers and for you and then have you comment on what your callers are saying about this very powerful force in California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, NADER 2000 AD)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I grow up I want the government to have the same problems it has today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to vote for the lesser of two evils.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be lied to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be apathetic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want tax breaks for the very rich.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I grow up... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I grow up...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be disillusioned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Disenchanted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disenfranchised.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I grow up, I want politicians to ignore me.

ANNOUNCER: Is this what you want from your government? or do you want something better for yourself and the next generation? Vote Ralph Nader for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATALIN: Michael, has Ralph invigorated the talk-listener, democracy soldiers?

JACKSON: Very much so, and I would like to tell either Bush or Gore how they could win so easily. All they have to do is adopt Nader. And I'm almost being serious with this. Let him run the EPA. Let him be our ambassador to the World Trade Organization. Let him be the conscience of GATT and NAFTA. Use him, because, Ralph Nader, four years in the White House for Bush isn't a blip as you seem to impart in your message. It's a time when the Supreme Court will change drastically and America will change drastically. You never stop attacking Bush and saying how lightweight he is. Many people agree with you. But on the other hand, to say that these two are Tweedledee and Tweedledee is utter nonsense, and I think ambition has got the better of you.

And my listeners are saying that over and over again. And I want to go back to question number one posed this evening but neither of us answered it, and that is the role of talk radio. Most of the hosts desperately as conservatives want Gore in the White House, because if they don't have Gore in the White House, who in Hades are they going to attack?

MATALIN: Do you really think, Michael, that professional that you are and sitting here with Janet who has a huge audience, that you could do what you do as passionately as you both do it if you didn't have that commitment in your heart, that it's just showbiz? I don't believe what you're saying that talk-show hosts do it just for the material.

JACKSON: Well, let's put it this way, let's put it this way. they have been so outspoken and extreme over the past eight years in their attacking of Bill Clinton, they need to have a bully pulpit. And in answer to that first question, one step further, how influential? I say they are so influential, they are noninfluential. Because, they have turned the electorate off, not on. Fewer and fewer Americans are voting each time.

REICH: Michael brings up an interesting question and, Janet, I would like your views on this. I mean, conservatives, talk show hosts, seem to have taken over talk radio. Now, I can name to you, and I'm not exactly conservative, but I can name to you a whole bunch of conservative talk-show hosts -- Rush Limbaugh, G. Gordon Liddy, Oliver North -- it helps to have a conviction behind you to be a conservative talk show host -- Janet Parshall, our own Mary Matalin. Mary, you have been a conservative talk show host.

Now, other than Michael Jackson, there are not too many liberals out there. Why is that the case? Or is that the case?

PARSHALL: Well, I'll tell you what I hear from the my listeners and that is by and large, when you look at television, the medium of television, most people will tell you that there is left bent to television, that it's not balanced at all. In fact, I would say early on in this election, a lot of people looked at Al Gore through the lens of media and went, well, I hear the message: Behold Al Gore, your undoubted king. And it was already decided.

So, talk radio is the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say. And what they get is not is not a three-minute package, they get the whole rest the story. They want to get their questions answered. They are desperate for information and they hate exclusion, like how come the media isn't telling more about this cute little deal between Al Gore and Victor Chernomyrdin? That's the No. 1 scandal of the day. It should be gracing the front pages of the paper.

REICH: Janet, there have been scandals all over the place. In fact, if you are -- if you are interested in scandal, I mean think of what -- and I hate to sound partisan about this -- but what the Republicans did with regard to Ken Starr and impeachment and the fact that we have a Congress that hasn't done anything.

Has talk radio really uncovered and focused on all of these Republican malfeasance, nonfeasance?

REICH: Could I come between the two of you?

PARSHALL: Mr. Secretary, with all due respect, nice try. Bottom line is Bill Clinton was impeached. And by the way, the arrogance of that article in "Esquire" magazine, and that questionable pose on the front page, saying that the Republicans owe America an apology for what they have done, he still hasn't apologized. He still hasn't said, what I did was wrong.

REICH: I love radio talk show hosts because they take your question and they just throw it back, whatever they want to answer. I'm on to you. I'm on to you.

JACKSON: I have to interject.

MATALIN: Michael, last word to you, which is a dangerous thing to offer, but...

JACKSON: Of course it is. He has replaced that line, "I'm a uniter not a divider," with he trusts us. Why do I care if he trusts us? Do we trust him? When he talks about uniting, I would like to point out that I can't think of a meaner time in American history, in Washington, than the Gingrichian, Trent Lott days. With their leadership, he's going to have to go some if he gets to Washington.

MATALIN: Well, Michael, you have made the left coast and all your lefty followers proud. You have done absolutely right, spoken like a true socialist, and that is not the end, Michael.

JACKSON: That's not fair. That's a low blow. I'm not a socialist, I'm a Democrat.

MATALIN: OK, he's a very liberal Democrat. I take that back.

JACKSON: No, I'm a typical Democrat.

MATALIN: OK, we have got to go.

More with these guys, you take them on and you decide what they are yourself. After the show they'll both be on-line. We will give that address in a minute. Stay with us. Professor and I will be giving our closing comments right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATALIN: OK, here is your chance to take on couple of professional talkers. Join them on-line at their debate. And tonight, both of our tonight's guests, they're right after the show at cnn.com/crossfire.

Mr. Secretary, Professor, Bob, you know what? I love talk radio. A day without Rush Limbaugh is not a day worth living. And you know why? Because it is bedrock democracy. He teaches. He inspires. He gives context and substance to these arguments. It's a wonderful medium. It has spread democracy and it inspires voter turnout. Michael is wrong about that. Both talk radio listeners voted in greater proportion than any other segment of the electorate.

REICH: Mary, Mary, Mary, quite contrary, I wish I could agree with you. I simply can't. Talk radio, it's not a vast right-wing conspiracy, but it's a vast right-wing screed. I turn on talk radio and all I hear are people yelling. And it's usually yelling about things that are big government and they don't, but interestingly, they don't take on corporate welfare. They don't take on big corporations. They take on government. I wish, if we are going to have a screed, let's have an equal, unbiased screed on talk radio.

From the left, from the quixotic left, sitting in for Bill Press, I'm Robert Reich and good night for CROSSFIRE.

MATALIN: From the market force right, I'm Mary Matalin. Join us again tomorrow night for more CROSSFIRE.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

 Search   


Back to the top  © 2001 Cable News Network. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines.