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George W. Bush Inauguration: Inaugural Parade Proceeds Despite Wet WeatherAired January 20, 2001 - 3:45 p.m. ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: This is the scene at the White House. We're looking at the West Lobby there. That's where visitors go to enter the White House en route to going to visit the president and the vice president.
Bill Hemmer is down at Freedom Plaza, which is just a few blocks away as the parade continues coming through the streets in Pennsylvania Avenue -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Bernie, unfortunately today the weather forecasters were indeed right on the money. It has been absolutely miserable day here on Freedom Plaza. We're on Pennsylvania Avenue, between 13th and 14th. The bleachers you see here throughout the entire area, just a few moments ago a whole lot of people got up, Bernie, and left. They were quite patient. These people have paid about 50 bucks per ticket to have a seat right here, and as soon as President Bush passed through here on motorcade, a whole lot of people got up and cleared out.
The Petersons (ph) are here. They are from the state of Wisconsin, came here from Milwaukee. You had a strategy today. Mr. Peterson stayed here to reserve seat. Mrs. Peterson went up for the swearing in on Capitol Hill. And you're still here right now. You're not clearing out. Tell us why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not clearing out. We're going to stay right until to the end. We drove all the way from Wisconsin. There's no way we're leaving early.
HEMMER: And tell us why to the end? Certainly, you've waited to a long time as a Bush supporter and a Republican to see this day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because we're very pleased that W has got into the White House. We've been working for him in Wisconsin and we're so pleased. That's why we're here.
HEMMER: Listen, stay warm, OK, because this weather is really nasty. By the way, 1937, FDR's second inauguration, 1.77 inches of rain here in Washington, D.C. I don't know if we're going to get close to that. However, it has been raining throughout the day here.
One Bush supporter did tell me, Bernie, he said you can tell America; it doesn't matter what the weather forecast is today. This is the best day they have seen in eight years' time. The parade is starting to come up, here, Bernie. We'll wait for it shortly here. I'm sorry, you were saying.
SHAW: I just want to ask you, I wonder what your guest thinks about having his governor taken away from him and packed off to Washington to be the secretary of health and human services?
HEMMER: I'm sorry Bernie, I couldn't hear all of that -- again?
SHAW: I'm wondering how the man you just interviewed feels about having Governor Tommy Thompson snatched away from the midst of the people of Wisconsin...
SHAW: ... and packed off to Washington.
HEMMER: Indeed, your governor, Tommy Thompson, is coming here to Washington, D.C. Your thoughts on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were at his hearing yesterday. We heard him over in the Dirksen Building. We heard him being questioned by Hillary, and I think he did a very good job. We're sad that he's leaving Wisconsin because we like him, but we're happy that he's been able to join the Bush Cabinet.
HEMMER: I want to get your wife some air time, here. Your thoughts on that as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we like Governor Thompson, but he'll do well under Mr. Bush.
HEMMER: Listen, you are hardy folks hanging out here today. Just about everybody's cleared out. I'd say about 10 percent are left here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here until the last cow goes home, believe me.
HEMMER: Until the last cow goes home. Good for you, Mrs. Peterson. Clearly, some hardy folks, Bernie, and indeed, a lot of folks have waited a long time to see this occasion. The band's starting to come up right here. We'll be here. We'll let you know what we see and hear throughout the evening here, Bernie.
SHAW: And Jeff, if you are a Republican, it's worth getting wet for.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: It is, and I have to say, having spent four winters in Wisconsin, this is considered early spring. If you're from Wisconsin, this is nothing you don't live with pretty much every day this time of year.
SHAW: U.S. Park Service Police on horseback. Anybody who's came to Washington, Judy, has seen these folks on horseback and on foot. JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: You have to admire the dedication, though, of those folks, that family from Wisconsin drive all the way to Washington; they're going to drive all the way back. That's something. Talked to some Republicans last night; they were greeting one another, high-fiving each other and saying, it's been a long time coming. And I think that's what we're hearing from these Republicans Bill was just talking to.
GREENFIELD: It just occurs to me that one of the traditions of an inaugural, and it is bipartisan, is the infliction of great pain on visitors. People come here. They spend lots of money for inaugural ticket. They spend lots of money on gowns.
They hear the word inaugural ball; they think they're going to something right out of Buckingham Palace. This is generally like being on a crowded subway car at 5:00 food-less. So, the Petersons are actually experiencing just the first stage of what is likely to be a traditional Washington ritual.
BOB DALLEK, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes, we encountered some Texans wandering around Woodley Park last night, trying to find this ball at the Marriott Hotel. They were utterly confused. So, we generously led them over there.
WOODRUFF: No chance that election dates might get changed, Bob Dallek, and then that means inaugurations could maybe fall in the summer.
DALLEK: There's a good idea, Judy.
GREENFIELD: Also, if I may say, it occurs to me that we should follow the Super Bowl, and perhaps hold the inauguration every four years in a different warm weather city. The National Football League can do it; I'm not sure whether the U.S. Government can. Certain amount of tradition we'd lose, however.
WOODRUFF: And that's only eight day away; right?
GREENFIELD: There you go.
WOODRUFF: One of the issues that George W. Bush has been talking a good bit about since his ascendancy to the presidency was made clear a few week ago, the economy. On several occasion, he's talked about how worried he is that the economy is going downhill; that we may be facing a recession.
So, the question arises just what state is the economy in that George W. Bush inherits as he takes over the presidency? Joining us now to talk about that, Robert Hormats, a familiar face to some of us. He's vice chairman of Goldman Sachs. Bob Hormats, are we on the edge of a recession?
ROBERT HORMATS, GOLDMAN SACHS: Well, we're not yet. I mean, we could go into recession if American consumers who've lost a lot of money in the stock market and are concerned about a slowdown -- they could retreat and pull us into recession by simply spending a lot less than they have in the past.
That would be the big risk. The other risk is the Federal Reserve does not cut interest rates sufficiently over the next several months to restimulate a certain amount growth. Those are the two big risks, but we're not in one yet.
WOODRUFF: There were those who made the point, Bob Hormats, when George W. Bush started talking down the economy, if you will, that he was in effect, by talking about it increasing the prospect that it might happen because people's psychology would go then in that direction?
HORMATS: Well, it's unfortunate that he did because you're absolutely right. The psychology that is now in the minds of many people is negative, and if political leaders reinforce that psychology, that can actually reduce the growth prospects of economy and undermine consumer confidence. I suspect as president, he and Cheney and others will not do that.
O'Neill, in his confirmation hearings, was very careful not to do that. And I think now as they're assuming office, they'll take a more realistic view of the economy and say that there is a risk of recession, but we're not there yet and we'll do all we can to prevent it through a tax cut and helping to encourage the Fed to stimulate the economy through lower interest rates.
WOODRUFF: Something else interesting from the confirmation hearings for Paul O'Neill, who is now the secretary of the treasury; having been confirmed this afternoon by the Senate. He said in those hearings that a tax cut the size, the $1.6 trillion cut that George W. Bush says is going to be the centerpiece of at least the first year of his administration, that that is not necessarily going to bring a quick benefit to the economy, and the newspapers yesterday were filled with speculation, anonymous quotes from people around Bush that he wasn't so pleased that his treasury secretary choice was talking like this?
HORMATS: Well, I think Paul O'Neill was realistic. The real way of getting the economy to grow more rapidly in the short-term is lower interest rates. Fiscal policy takes some time to work. And the Bush tax cut program really is sort of back-end loaded. That is to say, the real stimulus takes place not in the first, second, third years, but the seventh, eighth and ninth and tenth years.
And therefore, that program in itself is not going to be very stimulative. They could change it, of course. They could front end load the tax cuts. They could make them retroactive to the beginning of the year so people would see the benefits in lower withholding by the federal government and perhaps a higher personal exemptions. That would give a little more stimulus right away because people would see it in their pocketbooks and in their paychecks.
So, they'd have to change the old Bush program, make it a new one to be a stimulative one. And that really has -- would be a difference in structure, and I think they're really relying more on the Fed to do what's needed rather than fiscal policy.
SHAW: Bob Hormats, you've served in the United States government before. You've been here on Inauguration Day. In the upper right- hand screen there we see former President Clinton and wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. If you -- well, I'll save that question, and let's go to this rostrum here where the Clintons are speaking.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Thank you all so much for coming out to welcome us.
And I want to thank the Freeport High School Band and the Beech Channel High School Band. Thank you both. Thanks everyone in the band for being here, both of the schools. We are so glad to see all of you, and happy to be here.
A lot of people made us feel very welcome, and I wish I could thank everybody in this crowd. I particularly want to thank the people who brought their signs, who reminded everybody that for eight years this president and administration put people first.
CLINTON: I want to thank Judith Hope and the state committee members of the New York Democratic Party, and Congressman Jerry Nadler and Congressman Fred Meeks; Senator Marty Connor and all the state senators and members of the assembly; the New York City Council and other elected officials; former Mayor David Dinkins; County Chair Tom Manton; New York City Public Advocate Mark Green; Dennis Hughes; Randy Weingarten; I want to thank the carpenters and teamsters and SEIU, the machinists and the aerospace workers, the New York City Central Labor.
WOODRUFF: Hillary Clinton -- Senator Hillary Clinton with her husband, the just exited the White House president and their daughter Chelsea.
SHAW: Look at this picture. Here she is speaking and he doesn't appear to have any interest in what she is saying. It seems as if his mind is back here in Washington. Look at the former president's face. And notice how Chelsea's eyes are following what mother is saying.
WOODRUFF: It is hard to know what's going on because we don't know what they're looking at. We can't see what's behind the camera.
GREENFIELD: Well, I just remembered -- there may be an old friend there. But one of Clinton's most devoted aides, was a former journalist, Sid Blumenthal wrote a book called "The Permanent Campaign," analyzing the whole new way that politics -- it never stops. There's no governance.
And I'm looking at this, and as we picked up the brief comments from Senator Clinton, it sounded like election night. I want to thank the teamsters. I want to thank the carpenters. I want to thank the head of the Democratic Party.
WOODRUFF: Head of the Democratic Party.
GREENFIELD: And it almost seems as if the title of the book is very prescient. I mean, it feels like we are in a permanent campaign.
SHAW: Now, the Bushes are coming out of the White House to join their in-laws and relatives and friends and parents in the presidential reviewing stand. They went into the White House to freshen up, and now they're coming out to watch the parade like everybody else. And by the way, as the parade passes the White House, we can look over our shoulders from our studio atop the Labor Department roof, and there are still hundreds and hundreds of marchers way back here on Third Street.
WOODRUFF: There's a still a lot more to come of this parade. And Bernie before we get further, I want to give apologies to -- or at least explanation to Bob Hormats, our guest who was talking to us a moment ago about the economy. We were in the middle of hearing from him.
SHAW: I was in the middle of asking a question.
WOODRUFF: You were in the middle of asking him a question. We should apologize to you, too.
SHAW: No, that's all right.
WOODRUFF: We skipped up to New York to hear what Mrs. Clinton was -- Senator Clinton was saying. This is the picture in front of the White House as the Bushes walk on a blue cover...
SHAW: And this is the...
WOODRUFF: ... you see they're not on the mud.
SHAW: I just want to point out, remember I told you about the leather football, that's the president's military aide. That officer who just cleared the picture, that has the nuclear codes in that briefcase, and that's why he was walking a couple steps ahead of the president. His new military aide. I think they're waiting to be formally announced. Excuse me for interrupting.
WOODRUFF: Well, that's fine. You did the right thing.
DALLEK: Can I go back to Jeff at some point?
WOODRUFF: Please do, as we watch the new president and the new first lady join friends and family. Go ahead.
DALLEK: Jeff, I think your point is so well taken, and that's why people don't like politics. They're very disillusioned with it and that's why people get so far when they announce, I'm not a politician. I'm outside of Washington because they become very tired of this constant campaigning and the polemics and the divisive rhetoric. So, I think it serves people who are lower key, so to speak, in their political posturing. GREENFIELD: It's just going -- I think it's going to be very interesting to see whether or not -- what the reaction is to what the Clintons did today, because it is unprecedented. There are people who have gone home and thanked people for turning out. That's true. But the -- kind of the presence throughout the day, you know, the first day of the new president, I think is going to raise some questions.
DALLEK: Jeff, the greatest politician in the 20th century, Franklin Roosevelt, 1940-'41. They pressed him very hard to go on radio (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He said, "I don't want to become a redundancy." He understand overexposure was not a great idea for a politician.
WOODRUFF: Well, the news media also makes decisions to cover these people. I mean, CNN, other news organizations made the decision to cover the Clinton departure, extended departure and remarks at Andrews Air Force Base. We and other news organizations made the decision to cover Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton landing in New York and making those statements.
SHAW: Well, they're part of the story, the inaugural, although the top billing usually goes to the incoming president and vice president.
Vindication for a former president, George Herbert Walker Bush, directly behind his son. You remember once during the campaign he threatened to take off the gloves if Bill Clinton said some bad things about his son, if he continued it. He was really ready to go.
WOODRUFF: Now, I thought that there was a cover there, but I see Laura Bush holding an umbrella. Does that mean the rain is coming at them or there's no cover or what? What about one of our -- what about one of our correspondents on the scene, can you tell us -- or can we widen out and show the top of that?
SHAW: The front row is uncovered.
WOODRUFF: The front row is uncovered. So in other words, those aren't the prime seats that the president and the first lady got. Those are the -- those are the rough seats. Yes, you can see some other people there holding umbrellas.
SHAW: It's a kind of balcony right there at the front. Andy Card, chief of staff, staffing...
WOODRUFF: I think -- John King, tell us a little bit more about what we're looking at here, the new president behind a rain-soaked Plexiglas, it looks like.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, let us say first and foremost the new president is a gentleman. He pulled out an umbrella out for his wife before he pulled one out for himself. What happens is the cover over them just barely covers the front row. But the way the rain is coming down, it is getting in, and you now have the first of the parade itself. Obviously, the Bushes and the Cheneys have made it here and are in the VIP reviewing stand. And as you can see, the beginning of the parade itself coming down. And I must tell you, former President Bush is getting a great kick out of this. When they played "Hail to the Chief" for his son, you could just see him grinning and laughing and chumming it up with his son, Jeb Bush. He obviously is getting a great kick out of this event here today.
And you see the new president standing up with his military aides and the vice president as well as the honor guard moves past the reviewing stand.
GREENFIELD: You know, you might think that they could design, if I may, not to be critical of the architecture, but you might think that it would occur to somebody to design the protective cover to cover the newly inaugurated president of the United States.
WOODRUFF: Jeff, the architect is on the phone. He wants to speak with you right now.
GREENFIELD: He ain't designing my next house.
WOODRUFF: He wants to know how do you design one of these reviewing stands where the rain doesn't get in and there are able to interact with the parade.
SHAW: Well, let's listen to the band as we pause and return to Washington. More of this inaugural parade in a moment.
WOODRUFF: The University of Texas Band goes by. And what is that symbol that governor -- President George Bush...
GREENFIELD: Hook 'em, Horns.
WOODRUFF: Hook 'em, Horns.
GREENFIELD: Hook 'em, Horns.
WOODRUFF: And what's the name of that football team? The what? The University of Texas...
WOODRUFF: Longhorns. All right.
GREENFIELD: That's why -- that's why they say, "Hook 'em, Horns."
WOODRUFF: I was just trying to get you to say the word.
We are... GREENFIELD: Texas is going to play a very large role, stereotypically and otherwise, in the coverage of this administration. People always talk about Texas being larger than life and sometimes people see Texas as one -- you know, somebody wrote today: "The stereotype is one state of wretched excess." Big, rich, oil, J.R. Ewing. The University of Texas Marching Band. The Kilgore Rangerettes. But something tells me that George W. Bush is a tad more subtle than that.
WOODRUFF: Perhaps. There are four divisions in this parade, and you are looking at the third unit in the first division. In other words, we have got a lot of parade ahead of us.
Bill Hemmer, you are down there at -- there's a look at Pennsylvania Avenue, looking back east at the United States Capitol.
HEMMER: Hey, Judy, we're up here actually, over here in the bleacher area, and a number of bands have passed through our area, too. We've been talking with a lot of folks, and indeed, because of the weather today, Judy, a lot of people just simply left right after the president passed by us here about 35 minutes ago.
We talked a lot about security leading up to today's events today, and I want to touch on it just a little bit more. The Landrys are here from Texas, and they -- if I can step on down here, Mr. and Mrs Landry -- no relation to Tom Landry, by the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, you're right.
HEMMER: One of the things was security. You actually had tickets to the inaugural address up on Capitol Hill. You were going to be a hundred yards away from the podium, and you could not get there. Tell us why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we were on the opposite side of Pennsylvania Avenue from where our area was. And we had difficulty just trying to find a cross street at Pennsylvania to get to the other side.
HEMMER: How far -- how close -- we're at 13th. How far did you get?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We -- we thought we were going to be able to cross at 1st. We went down finally to 7th, and by then we were running out of time. So we just came to the parade at that point.
HEMMER: Yes, you were told, though, you couldn't cross at a certain area. Why was that? Was it the amount of people? Was it security?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was a combination of security and just the number of people involved. You know, the people that were trying to get to that side versus ours on the opposite side of the treat.
HEMMER: Were you disappointed you could not be there for the address, Mrs. Landry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were. We really were. But that's OK. We're proud to be Americans and be here.
HEMMER: Well, you're from Texas. How do you feel today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great. Just great. Good place to be.
HEMMER: I was talking to some other Texans. They said we're all Texans today.
OK, listen, thanks a lot. Enjoy today. Stay as dry as you can, all right? All right.
Judy, we should make -- point it out to you, a short time ago, this entire bleacher area was covered with Bush supporters and people who had come to see the parade pass by here. But as soon as the president passed by, a number of people cleared out, and I would say the numbers have dwindled quite a bit.
There were even protesters down just a little bit in front of us here, and again, a bigger pack over here, about a hundred yards behind us. But even they have cleared out as well.
And it's quite obvious Mother Nature has played a role in this parade today and the festivities that we are seeing. Back to you now -- Judy, Bernie.
WOODRUFF: And you know, as I'm sure as disappointed as some people are in the weather, they would have been even more disappointed if this parade had been called off, which is what happened when Ronald Reagan was inaugurated the second time in 1985. It was so cold, it was 7 degrees at noon that day. The wind chill was something...
GREENFIELD: Minus 20.
WOODRUFF: Minus 20. And they called everything off. They put the swearing-in ceremony inside the Capitol. They had some parade units inside, I think it was the convention center, but there was no parade. And you know, there had to be a lot of very disappointed people.
SHAW: I remember that day. I was covering that, and they had schoolchildren, members of marching bands at the hotels. They were really distraught, and as I recall, the president and the people from the White House had to visit with them to thank them for coming, to encourage them and to talk to them a little bit to try to cheer them up. They were very upset.
WOODRUFF: Kelli Arena down there has been keeping an eye on security, security issues. Kelli, the motorcade actually stepped at one point along Pennsylvania Avenue. What was that all about?
Kelli Arena, are you hearing us? Are you there?
Try to get back to -- let's try to get back to Kelli a little bit later.
Let's take a look now. This is the reviewing stand sitting right in front of the White House. There's the new president, George W. Bush. You see -- I think it's Jack Kemp...
GREENFIELD: Jack Kemp..
WOODRUFF: ... over there on the right. Former HUD secretary. Former vice presidential nominee under -- with Bob Dole.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Now, that is Mrs. Bush's alma mater...
WOODRUFF: Alma mater, SMU.
SCHNEIDER: Southern Methodist University.
WOODRUFF: Where she studied to be a librarian.
WOODRUFF: I think that's correct.
SCHNEIDER: And she's taken up the issue of literacy and reading, just as, of course, her mother-in-law did when she was first lady, made literacy an important issue.
WOODRUFF: Yes, she, in fact, yesterday she devoted an entire program to honoring American authors, and she had a number of authors there, gave readings. And she's going to be stressing literacy, as you say, as her mother-in-law did.
So yes, these are -- you know, we just -- we talked about the Texas Longhorns. You're looking at SMU. You can understand why these are the universities that get special attention.
SCHNEIDER: A unit called the Red Hot Mamas. Have we seen them yet? I'm waiting for them.
WOODRUFF: No, I'm looking for them, Bill, and I want you here -- I want you here to react.
SCHNEIDER: Just make sure that, when they pass by, make sure we take note.
GREENFIELD: It's the only reason Schneider showed up on this rainy day, is to see them.
But you'll also notice that fairly high up in the line (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is the Wyoming All-State High School Marching Band and the Wyoming theme float. And I don't think it's coincidental that the new vice president of the United States is from Wyoming. It's not always the case that we can explain it that way, but generally units from the states of the new top dogs are the prominently featured folks.
WOODRUFF: Yes, I don't want to be -- I don't want to mislead anybody. The -- I think the SMU -- University Mustang Band is further down in division three in this parade. But because of our camera's ability to focus way beyond where the beginning is, it looked like they were right there at the beginning.
Kelli Arena, are you able to hear me now? Kelli Arena?
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You may have noticed along the parade route the presidential motorcade noticeably picked up speed and at other times just came to a complete stop. That, I am told by law enforcement officials, is a security precaution.
There was some question as to whether or not there was a threat or a problem, but we checked it out and know that as a matter of course, whenever they have a presidential motorcade in a situation like this, they like to vary the speed so that you keep everybody else off-guard, if somebody's trying to pace the vehicle.
Also, we are told by law enforcement that two people tried to jump past the metal barricades. If you notice, right over here, we have metal gates that are along the entire parade route. These before were lined with police officers, just about arm-to-arm when the parade was passing by. Under that scenario, two -- at least two people tried to storm George -- President Bush's vehicle. They were immediately apprehended and arrested. There's no motive for why they did that. We're not sure if they were protesters or if they were just eager fans trying to get closer.
Of course, that situation was taken care of immediately. There are no other reports of any problems. A few arrests by protesters, but overall, from the security standpoint, this has been a nonevent.
WOODRUFF: Now we're looking at more of the first division of the parade going by, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association -- I'm surmising that's what we've just been looking at, from Hillsborough, North Carolina. It is -- it really is America that you're looking at passing in front of the new president in this parade. We're told that all but five states have -- are represented here, either with a college band or with some other organization that has put a float together.
SCHNEIDER: I could mention that one of them here -- I'm not sure I can pronounce this -- is Halo Hoo-oo-mau-oo Ee-ka-wa-ee-o-la o (ph) Hawaii, which I would surmise is from the state of Hawaii.
WOODRUFF: Could you say that again, Bill?
I could not. SHAW: Was that an Apache helicopter that just went past? Was that an Apache chopper?
WOODRUFF: Well, I -- I was surmising, because I know one of the units moving by in division one is the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. So it's my guess that that's -- that's they.
SHAW: I was -- I was outside and looking down as the marching units went past, and two thoughts. Think of how this man and his father and mother felt when they entered the White House and walked into the Oval Office before coming out on this stand.
GREENFIELD: CNN's live coverage is going to continue in a moment. When we come back, we're going to take a look at some of the diplomatic land mines that are facing the new president of the United States. So please stay with CNN.
SHAW: CNN atop the Labor Department building, looking over south onto 3rd Street, and these are the units that have yet to even get onto Pennsylvania Avenue. This parade is far from over.
GREENFIELD: Indeed at this rate, I believe the parade will be over shortly before President Bush's first speech to the Congress, which comes up in about I think a week and a half.
But why not? It doesn't happen that often. It's a celebration.
WOODRUFF: Just as we're watching, there's still much more of the parade to come. It's -- in fact, a major part this parade has not even left the staging area. So there -- we're talking -- it's 4:15, 4:20 Eastern Time. I think we're looking at another hour or so...
SCHNEIDER: That's right.
WOODRUFF: At least.
GREENFIELD: I think what just passed the reviewing stand -- and I'm making an educated guess -- is the Culver Academy's Block Horse Troupe and Equestrians. Culver, Indiana.
SHAW: And the president with his right hand over his heart. Every time the American flag goes by, of course, he stands there and salutes it. And there's so many American flags in this very American parade that it's better to just keep your right hand there, as does the first lady.
WOODRUFF: I saw a number -- I saw a number of Bush family members somewhere, and I'm rapidly going through these cards looking for it.
SHAW: While you're doing that...
WOODRUFF: But there are over a 100 Bush family members here.
SHAW: The Bush clan is very large. And can you imagine dinner at the White House tonight? Can you imagine that?
SCHNEIDER: And yet another generation, some of whom seem...
WOODRUFF: Here we go.
SHAW: That looks like the commandant of the Marine Corps there.
WOODRUFF: The official count of the Bush clan in Washington for these inaugural events, 155, although some report had it at 500. That's through marriage and cousins and second cousins. And it, according to our information -- this is "The New York Times" yesterday. Political events have now replaced Kennebunkport, Maine for family gatherings.
SHAW: As is traditional, every time a branch of the service comes up, the chief of that service steps up. And the Marine Band is going past now. That's why the commandant is there. And when the Army Band goes by and the Navy, what have you, their service chiefs also will step up to pose for pictures to be with the commander in chief.
SCHNEIDER: A few minutes ago, we saw the University of Massachusetts Marching Band. We've seen Texas, Wyoming. This is a festival for all America. I can assure you Bush and Cheney had not a prayer of carrying Massachusetts and lost it by about 30 points, but they are part of this celebration.
WOODRUFF: As we watch the new president and the new first lady watch this parade, this inaugural parade, we want to consider some of the issues that came up during the campaign and will be on the front burner for this administration having to do with international affairs, diplomacy.
And joining us now to talk about some of that, as we keep an eye on the parade, two distinguished individuals, former U.S. Ambassador Robert Oakley, who was in the Reagan administration, director of counterterrorism. He also served Bill Clinton as the adviser with regard to Somalia. And with Ambassador Oakley, Graham Allison, former assistant defense secretary in the Clinton administration. Now, a professor of government at Harvard.
Graham Allison, what is the first headache Colin Powell is going to have to deal with?
GRAHAM ALLISON, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, that's a good question. I suspect that he'll have both inherited headaches and the surprises, and you can never quite tell what the surprises will be. I think at the top of the headache list will be Iraq, where Saddam, keeping him in his box is always a challenge. And I think as he goes to deal with the European allies and with Russia and China, explaining how the commitment to move ahead with national missile defense can be squared with the concerns in each of those regions, will be very challenging. SHAW: Ambassador Oakley, how serious is the United States vulnerability to the threat of catastrophic terrorism?
ROBERT OAKLEY, FORMER AMBASSADOR: Well, the threat of terrorism is always one that haunts us. I think myself that the threat is somewhat exaggerated. I think that we're doing quite a good job in collecting intelligence and disrupting terrorist organizations. People have been talking about catastrophic terrorism ever since I was doing the job 15 years ago. It's something we shouldn't be obsessed by.
I think that Graham Allison is right. The two really potential nuclear timebombs are going to be China and Russia, and that's going to take a lot of patient, persistent engagement, something that President Bush talked about today.
SHAW: What about India and Pakistan?
OAKLEY: In addition to that, you're going to have the Middle East, where there are nuclear weapons as well as a number of other threats, and we're going to have to repair some damage done to the peace process and to our relationships with the Gulf Arabs, who are our allies, particularly if we're going to deal with Saddam Hussein and the Iranians.
The combination of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India is also very, very difficult. There's a lot of terrorism out there, and Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. So, that's another hot spot that has to be addressed very carefully and persistently. And the United States is going to have to rely upon others, not to think that we can do it all alone.
GREENFIELD: Mr. Allison, for the fourth time in five transfers of power, we have a president coming into office who was a governor or former governor with no experience on the international scene. Even though the new President Bush has surrounded himself with experienced hands, is there something about the lack of international experience that requires a learning curve for any president who's just been a governor?
ALLISON: Well, when we look at the historical record, first years are particularly hazardous. And here we have a paradox that you just referred to of a president who's probably the least experienced and least interested in foreign affairs in recent memory, on the one hand, and a Cabinet, on the other hand, which is the most experience and most seasoned that we've seen in the 20th century.
But the historical record suggests that whether John Kennedy and his Bay of Pigs in the first year, or Bill Clinton starting with gays in the military and then Somalia and Haiti, that first years are particularly hazardous for new presidents that come without any significant experience. And that includes, in particular, governors.
GREENFIELD: So, Mr. Oakley, is there something a new president can do to insulate himself against that problem? OAKLEY: I think he's done it. As Dr. Allison was saying, his Cabinet is superbly experienced. He himself has not had this experience, but he picked a Cabinet to compensate for the things which he isn't. And nobody can be Superman and be on top of all issues. I think he's got a superb Cabinet who can handle these things. They can also handle the intersection of economic and political issues, something that Bob Hormats, one of your earlier guests, and I used to work on when we were in the NSC during the Nixon-Ford period.
These issues are going to be very, very important. The United States is now so engaged economically around the world it's become part of our own national security.
WOODRUFF: Graham Allison, you mentioned the national missile defense. How is -- what is an argument that George W. Bush can make to persuade the allies, who are very skeptical about this, that this is something that the United States and he and his administration are dead serious about?
ALLISON: Well, it's a great question, and I think Colin Powell is about as persuasive a secretary of state as we could imagine, and he's going to have a difficult time with the allies and even a more difficult time with China, which will be the most difficult, I think, and Russia.
Partly, the determination to go ahead on the grounds that leaving the U.S. defenseless if there is a real threat and if there's a real capability of dealing with it is simply not acceptable. The notion is, well -- quote -- "They'll get used to it."
I think managing it in a deliberate fashion and over a period of time is going to be hard to do. But since the technology currently is not right for rapid deployment, I suspect that after they've had a chance to review matters, when they get on a steadier course such that this won't happen immediately but over some period of time, and I think with a period of time, the arguments may become more persuasive.
WOODRUFF: We are -- we're watching -- as we're talking to the two of you, we're keeping another close watch on the reviewing stand and looking at Colin Powell right now. We've been talking about the challenges he's facing. Was either of you surprised that there wasn't more mention of international affairs in the inaugural, or is that just something you wouldn't expect to be there?
OAKLEY: I think you have a short speech. I thought he handled it nicely. I think the main point is engagement: consistency, persistence. General Powell and Don Rumsfeld and Vice President Cheney have all talked about the need for negotiations, to examine issues carefully, not to make snap decisions. But Dr. Allison pointed out on national missile defense -- I think he's right -- there will be plenty of time to work this thing out. My guess is they'll be able to do so.
I've heard some senior administration people say, we've been talking with the Russians, that President George W. Bush's speech of last May gives a basis to work something out with them. ALLISON: I thought the speech was a good one. I liked it being so brief. And I thought his line about engagement in the world because of both our interest and our values attempted to at least allay some of the concerns about a more unilateralist or a more withdrawn U.S.
WOODRUFF: All right. We are going to leave it there: Graham Allison, Robert Oakley, we want to thank you both for joining us as we watch this parade and as we think about the challenges facing the new president.
SCHNEIDER: Well, you know, the Clinton administration established a certain record in international affairs, which a lot of the Bush people have been critical of. Republicans and particularly President Bush have been critical of the idea of the United States in peacekeeping missions. They don't like the word "peacekeeping." They say the American military should be used for warmaking. In fact, Colin Powell is author of the doctrine of invincible force. When there's a difficult situation in the world, we go in with overwhelming force, we win quickly, and we get out.
They have been critical of moral and humanitarian interventions like Haiti and Kosovo, that President Clinton was very much committed to.
In fact, when he left office, ex-President Bush, the current president's father, made two commitments. One is he went into Somalia to rescue people from a tragedy, but he decided not to get involved in the Balkans, because that was a European problem. And the Balkans turned into a terrible tragedy.
What the president is likely to discover is that you can't always use invincible force in the world. There are many situations that are very delicate and very tentative, and that the United States is going to have a problem. If we don't intervene, nothing will happen, and that was the tragedy of the Balkans.
GREENFIELD: While Bill Schneider was talking, we witnessed passing by the reviewing stand the Blue Knights Motorcycle Unit. Now, they're from Maryland, but we hear that one of the riders in that Blue Knights Motorcycle Unit was Ben Nighthorse Campbell, the Democrat- turned-Republican senator from Colorado and an enthusiastic motorcyclist.
SHAW: And if you're wondering how long is long in terms of this parade, what Jeff just reported on the group from Maryland, they are in what is called division two. Guess how many more division there are in this parade? Three, four and five.
SCHNEIDER: But where do the Red Hot Mamas come in?
SHAW: Where do the Red Hot Mamas come in? Let's see, I'll take a quick look here.
SCHNEIDER: I'm waiting for them.
SHAW: Oh, they're in division four.
SHAW: They're from Idaho.
GREENFIELD: Bill Schneider will be here about 10 o'clock at night. But while Bill waits for the Red Hot Mamas, which is rapidly approaching the most significant part of this, I think...
SHAW: And they're right behind the Washington crossing the Delaware float from you know where.
WOODRUFF: We've just seen the -- just so you to -- we want to give them credit the Mid-American Pom-Pom All -- Pom-Pom All-Star Team from Farmington Hills, Michigan.
GREENFIELD: On that note we're going to take...
WOODRUFF: We give credit where credit is due.
SHAW: And this is the Humvee...
SHAW: Look who's here.
GREENFIELD: There is Drew Carey, star of "The Drew Carey Show," which makes a whole lot of sense. One of the great ad-libbers also in American comedy.
SHAW: And he's on the Hummer vehicle? Is that it?
GREENFIELD: Yes. Drew Carey...
He's a Hoosier born and bread. It's one of the most reliably Republican states in the nation. So why not?
SHAW: There are two Hummers there, three hummers. I see there.
GREENFIELD: Which is not to be confused, of course, with Bill Hemmer...
... who's somewhere down there.
And on that note, we will take a break, and CNN's live coverage of the presidential inaugural parade will continue.
GREENFIELD: ... almost every speech that Bill Clinton would make, he would say, "We must all become Americans again." And in his re-election, he talked about opportunity, responsibility and community, as he did in his farewell address. So the theme of responsibility, of taking action on yourself, of not waiting for the government is a theme that now I think bridges both political parties. It's a major part of the so-called "New Democrat" message that Clinton brought successfully into the party eight years ago.
WOODRUFF: So are we saying that that's what the Republicans have adopted, Bob Dallek?
DALLEK: Yes, I think -- remember Bill Clinton, "One America"? This is a very attractive theme. It's something which both parties can subscribe to very comfortably. And I think that in a sense American politics have pushed more and more to the center. You don't have much appeal on the fringes. Look how poorly Pat Buchanan did in this campaign.
I think it's, at the moment, it's very much -- it's always a centrist county, but it's even more so now. It's the point you were making before, Jeff. Policies are not so important. What's important are value politics. This is what we've come to. Policies have sort of faded from view, because we've had prosperity, we've had the end of the Cold War. And I think there's a different mood in the country now and it pushes the country more toward the center.
GREENFIELD: Broaden this out a little bit for us. We're here because it's an important ceremonial event. It's -- even in a country that's less attuned to politics, it's a major civic event. But as you look back at history, can you really judge an administration by its start? In other words, take the inaugural, take the famous first 100 days of Roosevelt. Could you ever really judge a presidency on how it began?
DALLEK: No. Look at Ronald Reagan. In the second year of his presidency, polls showed that something like 53 percent of the public didn't want him to run for a second term because we were in the midst of a terrible recession. By 1984, he was so far ahead that he won a huge landslide. Richard Nixon by 1972 wins a huge landslide over.
So American politics is terribly mercurial.
GREENFIELD: And yet the Clinton folks think that they -- the clumsy start that they will talk about having gotten off to -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the gays in the military, bad relations with the press, a White House where people really didn't know where the light switches were...
DALLEK: The failure of health care reform.
GREENFIELD: But that was a year and a half later. But even that first couple of months cost them something. It seems to me this administration -- we were talking about this earlier -- is at pains to be up and running from day one. WOODRUFF: And that's a political and a -- a political management decision. They brought people into the White House -- Andrew Card, who knows how Washington works. They've put people in key positions who know this city. Bill Clinton didn't do that in all of these -- he brought a number people with him to Arkansas. He brought younger people, less experienced in Washington. And I think you're seeing a lesson learned here.
DALLEK: Jimmy Carter had the same problem, brining in all those people from Georgia. They were not familiar with the town.
GREENFIELD: So maybe what it teaches new presidents -- because Reagan's transition was very smooth; he had some veterans around him -- maybe the lesson is that no matter what you run on, you better have somebody in the White House early, in your administration, who knows where the power lies and how to play the game.
WOODRUFF: A classic case with Reagan was bringing in Jim Baker. Jim Baker had run the campaign of his opponent, Jerry -- I mean....
GREENFIELD: George Bush.
WOODRUFF: George Bush.
GREENFIELD: In 1980.
WOODRUFF: And rather than shunning Jim Baker, he brought him right within the bosom of the White House and to run things.
SHAW: Well, also, then Governor Bush was at a disadvantage in terms of national and international experience. So the brilliance he has assembled, arrayed around him on this reviewing stand right now insulates him.
GREENFIELD: Has any president done that before? Can you think of any president who so consciously reached into the recent past? I mean, everybody has to reach into some, but this seems to be extraordinary.
WOODRUFF: And is there a downside to it? I mean, I wondered as I was looking last evening at some of the people coming into this administration in the highest position, most of them are familiar faces. A few exceptions I mean, the education secretary is from Texas, the Houston school...
DALLEK: Well, Judy, I heard about one poll, which people said, 52 percent of the country said they do not think that Bush is going to be the leader of the administration. Now, that's not very good for an incoming president. He's got to take charge. He's got to show that he's the man at the head of the administration. And so, surrounding yourself with so many seasoned and experienced people and prominent political figures can have that downside to it.
SHAW: Well, look at that man we just saw to the left of President Bush: Dick Cheney is ticketed to become the most influential and powerful vice president in United States history.
DALLEK: Without question. Now, of course, there is some precedent in this in that Bill Clinton gave more power, authority to Al Gore than any other vice president.
WOODRUFF: But this is different.
DALLEK: This is.
WOODRUFF: I think this is -- this is different by -- by a magnitude of a lot.
GREENFIELD: A whole order of magnitude, as they say in...
WOODRUFF: Thank you.
GREENFIELD: No, it does seem like he's saying to Dick Cheney, I'm the CEO, but you are the -- you're the chief operating officer or the prime minister, if you like that.
DALLEK: Jeff, he needs to look closely at the Reagan experience, because Reagan -- the knock on Reagan was that he did not attend to things either. But in fact, he came across as a strong leader, as someone who was in charge of his administration. Eisenhower ran into some of that problem. Remember, that he was always out there playing golf, that Dulles was running foreign policy. And Eisenhower resented it greatly. But of course, Eisenhower had the background as a great World War II general, which made him...
WOODRUFF: A hero. A hero.
DALLEK: A hero -- absolutely.
WOODRUFF: And George W. Bush doesn't bring that background with him. He's got to build his name, his reputation as he serves as president.
SHAW: I just wanted to make the observation. The U.S. Navy band is going by. And you saw the deep look of affection and appreciation on the face of former President Herbert Walker Bush himself, a former Navy pilot. He looks very proud right now seeing them go by the stand.
GREENFIELD: I was also thinking, Robert Dallek, that it almost seems inevitable that somewhere in the first chunk of time a new president faces an absolute surprise, a left hook coming out of nowhere...
GREENFIELD: ... whether it was John Kennedy's Bay of Pigs or the whole disarray of Bill Clinton. I guess with Ronald Reagan we'd have to point to the near tragedy of his being shot, which may not even -- may not even count. But how -- how -- are there rules for a president responding to his first disaster? DALLEK: Jeff, there is no handbook on how to be a great president. You learn on the job, and you do it flying by the seat of your pants. But what we have to remember is that when you run into a crisis like that, a new problem, it's a great opportunity, because then you can assert yourself and show effective leadership.
And what Bush should be thinking about, it seems to me, is that he is going to run into something of this kind and that he better be prepared to address it and show that he is the leader rather than Dick Cheney or Colin Powell or anybody else in the administration.
WOODRUFF: But that's going to be difficult to do. I mean, it's almost a matter orchestrating and choreographing, if you will, because clearly he's going to be relying on these people who have much more experience than he does.
DALLEK: Well, that's the downside to his candidacy, as I saw it, when he was running: that he was a man with very little foreign policy or defense experience, and how will he acquit himself here.
Now at the beginning, of course, we hear about increasing the military budget. We hear about SDI. Will they be able to follow through? Will they carry it through the Congress? I mean, these are issues that remain to be addressed.
SHAW: One parade note, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir from Salt Lake City usually is on a huge float, and they tend to do "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." Whether or not they're going to do it, it will be interesting to find out. They're just a couple of units behind, aren't they, Judy?
WOODRUFF: And a little note about that, that particular float. The truck that it's on was built for Reagan's second inaugural, and because the parade was canceled because of very cold weather, that float, that truck was never used. It is apparently one of the few that could hold the entire Moron Tabernacle Choir.
It's interesting that Clinton was never interested in using that truck for some reason.
SHAW: Robert Dallek, we're going to come back. We want to hear more from you in just a moment as our live coverage of the inaugural parade continues in Washington, D.C.
WOODRUFF: The inaugural parade continues. This might be the Texas Cavaliers. We -- we need to get a closer look. We are in the middle of the second division passing in front of President George W. Bush, Laura Bush. He's been president now for four hours and 50 minutes.
And there is still more than half of this parade to come, at least by our count. And you have to hand it to the people participating in their parade. We are at the other end of the parade route, our CNN stand here near the Capitol, and these folks who you are not seeing on your screen yet, they are standing in the pouring rain waiting for their section to get under way. And they've got a mile -- more than a mile and a half to walk to the White House.
SHAW: And conceptually, you saw where the parade is at the reviewing stand right now. What Judy was referring to is way east of the National Art Gallery.
WOODRUFF: 1.65 miles east.
WOODRUFF: There at the reviewing stand, a gentlemen who you have to give a lot of credit to for the victory of George W. Bush in this election. His name is Karl Rove. He's the chief strategist for this campaign.
My first question, Karl Rove, is how are you -- how are you going to keep the votes of all these people you've kept standing in the rain all this time?
KARL ROVE, BUSH ADVISER: Well, I don't think we'll have a problem with that, Judy. They're wildly enthusiastic. They came here on short notice, many of them, and had to raise the money to get their band or their marching group here on short notice. And they're wildly enthusiastic about George W. Bush and Laura Bush.
WOODRUFF: You've been asked this question I know all day long, Karl Rove: What are you thinking? What's going on inside of your mind right now?
ROVE: Well, it's -- America's got a great new president. He's going to -- he's got a wonderful agenda to reform our schools and cut takes, restore the military, strengthen Social Security, Medicare. And he's going to do in office exactly what he's been talking about for the last two years.
And I think the American people will like the change in tone that they're going to see in Washington, the return of civility and respect. And it's going to be a great four years.
GREENFIELD: Karl, it's Jeff Greenfield. Did you have any reaction to the fact that outgoing President Clinton took today to make a full-blooded speech at Andrews Air Force? As far as I can tell, that's about as unprecedented as I can remember.
ROVE: Well, I didn't see the speech, so I don't know much about it. But that's President Clinton's business.
WOODRUFF: There were a lot of protesters along the route, Karl Rove. What -- did you see them? What did you make of all of that?
ROVE: Yes. I was in one of the first cars that came down from the Capitol after the ceremony and I saw them. But look, that's America. These people have a right to express their views. I -- there were some protesters, but there were a lot more people sitting in the stands waiting to see their new president (UNINTELLIGIBLE) greeted him enthusiastically.
GREENFIELD: Karl, we've been talking for a bit with historian Robert Dallek about the fact that no matter how carefully prepared a president is, there's almost always something that happens in the first couple of months that comes strictly out of, you know, left field, that there's no way to prepare for. Does that help explain how you staffed the White House and the Cabinet, that there's such experience behind this new president, who after all has had no Washington experience?
ROVE: Yes, absolutely. In fact, there is a way you can prepare for the unexpected, which every president -- you're right -- faces, and that is to surround yourself with the best people you can in your Cabinet, your staff, to allot authority and responsibility, and let them know how you intend to govern, share the principles that you want them to govern by, and hold them accountable for results. And that's exactly what President Bush is going to do.
But you're right, there's something that always happens. That's why we have a president. If it was routine and it could all be planned out in advance, we wouldn't need a strong chief executive who could lead the country in times of crisis or difficulty. So yes, he's -- he thought about this and made it clear right from the start that he wanted an administration that could deal with any contingency, no matter what happens.
GREENFIELD: Speaking of the unexpected, could the protective covering not have been designed to cover the new president of the United States?
ROVE: I'm sorry. I can't hear you.
GREENFIELD: I say, speaking of the unexpected, couldn't that protective covering had come a few feet further down so that the new president didn't have to get wet?
ROVE: Well, it would have been nice, but he's been standing under an umbrella for part of the time and stepped back a few paces so he didn't get completely wet. But it's -- it's a -- it's a wonderful day, and no amount of rain or cold can dampen people's enthusiasm.
WOODRUFF: Prediction on the tax cut, Karl Rove, while we're talking about the weather and everything else. What -- what's going to happen? Are you concerned because of the testimony on the Hill this week of people like Paul O'Neill and Mitch Daniels, that the tax cut is going to give that stimulus to the economy, that immediate boost that might have been suggested by the president?
ROVE: Well, it is depends on how it's exactly defined and designed and dealt with by Congress. But look, the tax cut is important because the surplus represents overpayment of taxes by the American people to their government and they deserve to get part of it back. It will help ensure the long-term competitiveness and strengthen the American economy, to return part of the surplus to the people who created it in the first place, particularly those in the lower middle class who are struggling to get by, who live paycheck to paycheck, and for whom a tax cut will represent a real advantage.
WOODRUFF: I've got a parade question, Karl. How did you decide or how did somebody decide who gets in the parade and who didn't?
ROVE: Well, I'm not really certain, but I'll tell you this. I was lobbied a lot by people who wanted their band or their marching group or their float in the parade, and I was thankful that I could buck all those questions to the presidential inaugural committee. I don't know how Jean Johnson (ph) and her staff finally dealt with all the possibilities that were offered them. But it was -- it was a monumental decision-making, I'm sure, because there were a lot of people who wanted to be here.
WOODRUFF: You haven't been hearing from the folks who were denied a slot?
ROVE: Well, I think -- I think most people felt they got a fair hearing and that they -- they felt well-treated even if they weren't able to come and march in the parade.
WOODRUFF: I think that's the Postal Service, actually the National Postal Museum. You actually let Washington, D.C. participate in this parade. Was that a mistake, Karl?
ROVE: Not at all. In fact, Mayor Tony Williams was gracious enough -- the mayor of Washington, D.C. -- was gracious enough to greet President Bush when he came to the airport. We hope to have a very strong and good relationship with the city.
The city -- let me just tell you, the city of Washington, D.C. has worked overtime to make this whole inaugural festivity possible. They have been -- the mayor and his people have just been tremendous to work with and made us feel right at home. It's -- we owe them a big debt of gratitude for helping ease our way into the city.
SHAW: Given what you've just said, would you support home rule for people in the District of Columbia, Karl?
ROVE: Nice try, Bernie. I -- we'll leave that up to the United States Congress.
DALLEK: Diplomatic answer.
GREENFIELD: Karl, one more serious political question, since, look, this is a day of bipartisanship, but politics starts probably in about another 48 hours. To what extent, if any, do you think the circumstances of this election are going to play out among people who were opposed to the president's agenda? That is, how often do you expect them to come back to the point that, you know, the other guy got more popular votes, it was a highly contested and confused election, you don't have a mandate? Is there a way to say, we do have a mandate, whatever those numbers told us?
ROVE: Well, let me make two points. First of all, President Bush was elected by winning an astonishing 11.3 million more votes than the Republican ticket received in '96 or '92. That represents one of the biggest swings from election to election in the history of modern American politics. In the 25 presidential elections in the 20th century, the Republicans were able to achieve that kind of swing three times and the Democrats once.
So President Bush was elected because there was a monumental swing, a change in the electoral structure from 1976 to the year 2000.
Second of all, to answer your question directly, I think there's going to be less of that than one might expect, because I think people, Democrats and Republicans alike, represent the -- understand that President Bush represents a change in the tone and an opportunity to have progress on a number of issues which rightly or wrongly have been stalled and gridlocked for the last five or six or seven or eight years.
And I think it's a sign of the things that are to come when you look back to the last several weeks. Just before Christmas, 19 Democrats and Republicans, members of Congress, came to Texas to talk about education in a session. Two weeks ago, this coming Monday, the bipartisan leadership of the Senate and House armed services committees came to Texas to talk about rebuilding our military. Chairman John Warner said at that time it was the first time an incoming president had ever met with the bipartisan leadership of the House Armed Services Committee before being sworn in.
Tomorrow, the governor will meet -- the president-elect, excuse me -- the president will meet with both Democrats and Republicans. And on Wednesday, he'll have a joint meeting of the House and Senate Republican and Democratic leadership in order to further this relationship of necessary and important bipartisanship on issues that are important to America, like reform in education.
WOODRUFF: Karl, is there going to be give in the president's position on campaign finance reform? We know he's going to meet with Senator McCain. Is there going to be a meeting of the minds there?
ROVE: Well, we'll see if there can be a meeting of the minds. The president's made clear his views on this issue. He doesn't -- he's against corporate and union soft-money contributions, which is a point of agreement between some of the versions of McCain-Feingold and the president. He's for paycheck protection. He's also more than willing to have corporations required to -- to provide the input for their stockholders before giving contributions.
We'll see, but there is a lot of common ground between these two men, and they're good friends, and I'm sure they can find a way to work together on this.
WOODRUFF: All right, Karl Rove. Last but not least, which one is going to be your office? ROVE: Well, I've been told I get Mrs. Clinton's former office in the West Wing, but I haven't seen it yet and I don't know what the quarters look like, but I'm sure they'll be just fine.
WOODRUFF: All right, Karl Rove, we can't see what's written on your baseball cap. Can you tell us as we say goodbye?
ROVE: It says Bush-Cheney transition.
WOODRUFF: I think the transition...
ROVE: It was the only -- it was the only hat I had in my hotel room.
WOODRUFF: I was going to say, I think the transition's over.
ROVE: I know. I'd trade it for one of these CNN caps except this one looks warmer.
WOODRUFF: All right, Karl Rove, thanks very much, and we'll see you again very soon. Thanks a lot.
And we're going to take a break as we watch more of the inaugural parade pass in front of the reviewing stand and President George W. Bush.
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