Larry King Live

What Is the Future of NASCAR?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, roaring engines, red-hot ratings and real live danger. It's NASCAR, America's top spectator sport this side of football. The tragic death of Dale Earnhardt has revved up the spotlight on this fast-moving sport.

And joining us for his only prime time interview since Earnhardt's fatal crash, top NASCAR driver Jeff Gordon, winner of three Winston Cup championships.

Then, in High Point, North Carolina, the legendary Richard Petty, the king of NASCAR who's racked up 200 career victories. He also lost a grandson, Adam, to the sport he loves.

And in Nashville, another three-time Winston Cup champion, Darrell Waltrip, who announced the Daytona 500, which his brother won, in which Dale Earnhardt died.

They're next. We'll take calls, too, on LARRY KING LIVE."

We're going to begin with Jeff Gordon, who is, of course, the newest star on the NASCAR horizon. What happened yesterday?

JEFF GORDON, NASCAR DRIVER: A blown engine. If you don't get there all the way to end, you're done.

KING: Do you -- can you sense early on if you've got a car in trouble?

GORDON: Unfortunately, yesterday, I couldn't. It came very sudden. I saw the water temperature gauge just skyrocket and I knew we were in trouble then, but the engine was running fine until probably about 15 or 20 laps later. Then I knew we were in trouble.

KING: There's a lot of subjects we'll discuss when all three of us are gathered together, but first, some individual questions for you, Jeff. What attracted -- brought you to this sport?

GORDON: I've been racing ever since I was a kid. My stepfather and my mother got me involved when I was five years old, and it's just something that I fallen in love with, and I never knew that I was going to make a living at this or go on to get to NASCAR Winston Cup racing, but it was something that I took to very quickly and had a lot of success early on, and fortunately, I've been very blessed and able to get to this level. KING: Where did you grow up?

GORDON: Actually a place -- Vallejo, California is where I was born, and then cut my teeth a lot on dirt tracks around the Midwest, around Indiana.

KING: You would think that a stepfather and mother would be worried about a young boy getting interested in a sport so dangerous.

GORDON: Well, you got to look at it, you know, at five years old, the cars are going much slower. You're talking about quarter midgets. They're very safe. And it's treated a lot like little league. It's very family oriented. There's little boys, girls, you know, it just is something that's a lot of fun for the whole family to get involved with.

And, you know, yes, there are accidents that happen, even at that level. But, it's very safe, and actually one of the reasons that my parents put me in the race car is because I was racing BMX bikes when I was four and they felt that was too dangerous.

KING: Where along the road up in the yearly climb did you say I want to do this for a living?

GORDON: You know, probably when I graduated from high school. You start thinking about all those career choices, and just prior to that, things had really started to take off with my career in the professional world of racing, and some opportunities came my way and I couldn't pass them up.

And fortunately for me, it got me on ESPN in front of a lot of audiences -- a big audience, and that took me on to NASCAR in the Busch Grand National Series and then eventually into the Winston Cup Series.

KING: Now, how do you choose the sport you choose? Why NASCAR? Why not Indy?

GEORGE: That's a good question, because, growing up around Indiana, the Indianapolis 500 was everything, and that was my dream. I wanted to go to Indianapolis. But the opportunities just weren't there. I grew up racing on oval tracks, and most of the series at that time before it was IRL, it was CART, and most of the series was road courses and just a few ovals, and they really weren't looking for American drivers that grew up on ovals. And so NASCAR seemed like the -- just the natural fit for me, a lot of high bank, fast oval racing and very competitive.

KING: Would you like to try Indy?

GORDON: I was talking to Tony George about that just the other day. I love Indy. I'm fascinated by it. But right now, my heart is with NASCAR and I love it. You know, every aspect of it: the business side of it, the racing, the competition, and I plan on, you know, being involved with this a long time.

And, it's just a conflict. I'd have to run two races on one day, and I want to put all my focus into Winston Cup

KING: You mentioned the business side. Are many of the drivers actually in business or are they hired hands?

GORDON: Most of them -- we all have a contract with the car owner, which in turn has a contract with a sponsor to allow you to put the whole team together and go out and race. But, you know, for me and quite a few other guys, it's turned into a big business away from not just sponsorship-wise, but you're talking endorsements.

Now the licensing world. We're talking about a lot of different types of products that are out there that have your name, your face, your likeness that you have to approve. And so, I do have employees that watch after these things and try to make sure that we put the best image out there that we can, and make sure that, you know, we're getting the most out of it at the same time.

KING: Every company that we see like on your jacket or on your car, pays for that?

GORDON: Oh, yes, absolutely. If they're on there -- some of them may give a certain amount of product to the team, but most of them are definitely dollars and it's sort of like a moving billboard at 200 miles per hour, and you know, the sponsors get a lot of benefit out of this.

The NASCAR fan really goes out and looks out for these sponsors that are on these cars. If it's a driver that they like or if it's a team that they like, they'll actually go out and buy those products. So it's been successful for NASCAR, the teams, drivers and for the sponsors.

KING: And like country music, it's a sport where the athletes are very close to their fans; right?

GORDON: Oh, absolutely. I just -- I don't know a fan that's more dedicated, that's more loyal to a sport than NASCAR fans, and I guess you could treat it somewhat like a country music fan, and I think, you know, it's a great mix because we're able to get close up to them and give autographs or take pictures and they're able to, you know, take something away from that and enjoy what they see on the racetrack, but also get a relationship going with the drivers and the teams, and it's a very unique, mix. But, it works, and we're very excited to have it that way.

KING: We wanted to give you a glimpse of racing's newest star. Jeff will remain with us, of course, and we'll be joined by Richard Petty, maybe the grandaddy of them all, and Darrell Waltrip. Together, these three gentlemen have 10 Winston Cup Series championships among them. We'll be right back. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Our subject tonight is wheels. It's America's second most popular sport. Our guests are: Jeff Gordon, winner of three NASCAR Winston Cup Series Championships. Made his debut in 1992. His first NASCAR race, by the way, was Richard Petty's last race.

Richard Petty, who retired in 1992, joins us from High Point, North Carolina. Seven-time Winston Cup series champ, 200 career wins. It was Richard's son Adam who died in May of 2000 while practicing at the New Hampshire International Speedway.

And in Nashville, Tennessee, the just retired three-time Winston Cup series champion, Darrell Waltrip. He retired as a NASCAR driver last year. He was the NASCAR TV announcer in 2001 Daytona when Dale Earnhardt died, and his brother Michael won that race -- a classic example of mixed emotions -- and he joined us the night after that race.

Richard, when your own grandson died tragically in a practice run, did you ever feel sorry about getting the family into what you got into?

RICHARD PETTY, RETIRED NASCAR CHAMPION: Well, you've got to figure that my father started in 1949, when Winston Cup first started, and I was like 11 years old. And I hung around with him, we worked on the car. And you know, it was one of the deals that was a family deal. Mother went, fixed dinner for us, fixed sandwiches, and then, you know, I got into racing and I got married and I had a son, and my son went into racing. And when Adam came along then, you know, it was just a natural deal.

So like a farmer's son, you know, being a farmer, we was racing, racing was our business, and we continued to do it.

KING: So no regrets from that point of view?

PETTY: No, not from that standpoint. You know, you've got to figure that, you know, life gives, life takes. And you know, the good Lord said, you know, who wanted Adam worse than we wanted him. And you know, it was a sad day, it was a bad situation.

But you know, just going to the racetrack we get a lot of people hurt, get a lot of people killed just going to the racetrack. And you know, we don't really think that much about the danger part of it. That's just part of living.

KING: So you grew up with it. Darrell Waltrip, did you? Did you grow up with this sport?

DARRELL WALTRIP, RETIRED NASCAR CHAMPION: Yeah, I -- just like Jeff Gordon, I started racing go-carts when I was 12 years old. And the biggest fascination I had was I wanted to be able to drive. I wanted to have my own car. I wanted to have my own '57 Chevrolet. That was my dream. And the easiest and quickest way for me to get there -- I wasn't old enough to have a driver's license -- was to find something I could drive. That was a go-cart.

So we -- it was a family affair. We threw the go-cart in the trunk. Mom would fix a picnic lunch. Dad would race the go-cart, I'd race the go-cart. My mom could have even raced the go-cart if she wanted to. That's how we got everybody involved. And that's the thing...

KING: And you liked it right away?

WALTRIP: I loved it.

KING: Liked it?

WALTRIP: Yeah, I mean, we won -- we won trophies. Kind of little-bitty ones, but we won trophies.

KING: So it became your life decision, as well?

WALTRIP: Oh, there's no question about it. I knew from the time I was 6 years old. G.C. Spencer was racing cars in Owensboro, Kentucky on births, and he had a car called the Flying Saucer. And I some day wanted have my own flying saucer.

That was my -- that was a -- that was a dream I had. It was a goal I had and I set out, and that's where I am.

KING: Same question for all three of you. Jeff is the only one active, of course. Jeff, what do you do with fear? How do you deal with fear?

GORDON: Well, I think fear is an important part of racing. I think we all have fear, and that's what keeps us from going over the edge. That's what allows to us keep the car in control. And there's no doubt.

Anybody out there that tells you they're fearless, that's not necessarily the sign of a race car driver or a great race car driver. Things happen out there every lap that brings fear into your mind. But our biggest focus, the thing we look at the most, is how do we make this car go faster, how do we get this car to victory lane.

KING: Richard, how do you deal with it, or how did you deal with it?

PETTY: Well, you know, driving a race car I never had any fear. I...

KING: Did not?

PETTY: It wasn't I wasn't scared of different things. I always put my fear at the deal of saying, OK, I've got control of this, and if I don't go over edge, I'm OK. Fear wasn't the deal -- just common sense to tell you, you can only run so fast and only do so many things.

So heights scare the tar out of me, but a race car never scared me.

KING: So if you were fearless, though, that would be stupid, right, to not have any worry?

PETTY: Yes. As far as being fearless, I wasn't fearless. I just tried to use some common sense to know that you can only go in a corner so fast, you can only get so many cars in one corner, you can only do so much. So you know, again, when you come back to the deal, if you're scared, then you shouldn't be on the racetrack in the first place, if you have any fear from that standpoint. But you can't be fearless. You have to have a little common sense.

KING: Got you. Darrell, how did you deal with it? Let's say you're driving and you see something coming in front of you, you know you're going to hit something.

WALTRIP: Well, you do. I mean, you do see it coming, and it is registering. But a good race car driver, the best race-car drivers, it's not like you think about it. You instinctively do things. You instinctively know to go high, go low, do something, because you've been in this situation before.

I think fear to me is if you don't have fear, then you don't respect what you're doing. And you have to respect the speed that you're going, you have to respect the conditions.

I always think about, you know, you can get a ticket driving down the highway for driving too fast for the conditions. That's stupid. If the road's slick or if it's raining or if there's a wreck or if there's something going on, and you're driving too fast for the conditions, then you're not using very good judgment.

So it really all comes down to respecting where you are and what you're doing. And then -- I have a thing I love to talk about: It's track presence. You have to have a track presence. You've got to know where you are all the time and you've got to know what's going on around you all the time.

The more you know, the more that people tell you -- the more the spotter tells you, the crew chief tells you -- the more you know, the less fear you have.

KING: We're going to take a break, and when we come back, we'll talk about Dale Earnhardt, and we'll also talk about what makes a great race driver and what kind of athletes they are. The definition of athletics once was speed while moving, thinking while moving.

We're talking with three great athletes tonight. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three wide behind him.

WALTRIP: You've got him, Mikey. You got him, man. You got him. Come on, man!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The three car down...

WALTRIP: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big trouble. Big wreck behind him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. Be (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Be the man. Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the flag.

WALTRIP: Come on, Mikey. You've got it, man. You've got it. You've got it. You've got it! Mikey! All right! Yeah! Yeah!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Waltrip wins.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about Dale? Is he OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Schrader's climbed out of his car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Darrell, is this better than winning it?

WALTRIP: Oh, it's much better. It's great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That was Darrell Waltrip announcing Michael, his brother's, victory in the race that killed Dale Earnhardt.

Jeff, what did he mean to the sport?

GORDON: I don't think you can put it into words what he meant for the sport. You know, I think that he was such a huge inspiration to so many people that wanted to get into the sport or were in the sport, and he -- he set the bar. He was amazing on the racetrack. But he also had an incredible fan base. I mean, people just loved him, you know. Some of them hated him, too. But he brought this sport, I think, to a whole new level, and it was exciting to have him out there.

And you know, there's no doubt in my mind that this sport can continue to go on and be successful, but that doesn't mean it's going to go on exactly the same as it did.

KING: Now, Richard, he was a rough rider. Why was he so popular?

PETTY: Well, I'll tell you, there's a lot of those rough riders out there, I guess. You know, the deal was that everybody thinks of race car drivers -- people sitting in the grandstand or whatever -- and everybody says, you know, why don't he move him out of the way. Well, Earnhardt would move them out of the way, and the deal was he was a very exciting driver. Wherever he was at on the racetrack, there was going to be some excitement, and that's what the fans wanted.

KING: And the drivers, too, Darrell, other drivers respected that?

WALTRIP: Well, everybody knew that when Dale Earnhardt -- when you looked in the mirror and you saw that 3 car, you better do something. You better speed up and get away from him. You better get out of his way or he is going to move out of his way.

He was not one to hesitate. When he got to you, he was going to make something happen. I love what he said at Bristol when he spun Terry Labonte out on the last lap of the race. Oh, I didn't really mean to. I just wanted to rattle his cage a little bit. Well, buddy, he rattled a lot of cages in his time and everybody remembered it and every time you saw it, you never forget it because you knew he was the Intimidator, and he was going live up to his reputation.

KING: Now Jeff, when you look at the accident, it didn't look like someone should have died in that. There's been lots of controversy, seat belt controversy, headgear controversy, autopsy controversy. What do you make of it?

GORDON: I -- you know, it was -- I mean, it was a -- it was a crash, a bad crash. But, no, I don't...

KING: It seemed...

GORDON: I don't think that that should have killed someone. You know, I don't think that it was a bad enough accident to do that. But it was it was a bad accident, and I've seen things like this happen before. Throughout my racing career, I've seen people crash, and you say, oh, he's going to climb right out of the car. No problem, it's just another wreck, and they don't.

And then some of the ones like Tony Stewart flipping down the back straightaway in the same race, you know, climbs out with fairly minor injuries. So, you just, you never know and you never can tell by just looking at the accident.

KING: Richard, did you think that looked like a death accident?

PETTY: No, not really. You know, it just was one of them deals you say, OK, everything's OK because, he never -- when he hit, he never stopped. In other words, the car hit the wall, and the 36 hit it at the same time. So, most of the time when the cars are moving, you don't have something like that. But, you know, when the good Lord calls, circumstances will get you. Seat belt, you know, solo harness whatever the problem was, it just was his time to go.

KING: Will it increase safety, Darrell? Will we now look more at shoulder harnesses and double check seat belts? Will death bring a plus?

WALTRIP: Well, we always learn from tragedy. Or at least, we hope we do and we think we do. But -- and I'm certainly not here to disagree with Richard or Jeff, either one, but that was a hard wreck. And there is a syndrome that's called sudden stop syndrome. And, yes, the car was moving and yes, there was another car involved.

But when Dale went head on straight up that track, and hit that wall head on, I honestly believe that I'm not sure that any safety device would have saved his life. Now, the controversy and the thing that is very confusing, and concerns all of us is that broken seat belt. We keep hearing about it, and we keep talking about it, but I really don't -- I don't have an explanation for it. No one has ever given me an explanation as to what happened. Certainly, if his seat belt broke and he went forward in the seat, he probably...

KING: Good-bye.

WALTRIP: ... could not survive that wreck. So, that's probably thing that we don't know very much about. But listen, that car went that up that track and hit that wall at 170, 160 miles an hour. We go to Rockingham or we go to even New Hampshire, and those cars aren't running but about 140 miles an hour. So, it's not how hard you hit or how fast -- it's how hard you hit, not necessarily how fast you're going, and it's what it does to the body. It's that -- the brain goes up and pops the back of your skull, and I think that's what did him in.

KING: We'll break and come back and ask what makes a great race car driver right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Starting 16, driving number 8, the Budweiser Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt Jr.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. We'll be going to calls in a couple minutes. Richard Petty, 200 wins, what makes a great -- what you would look for in a young guy or a young woman to be a great race car driver?

PETTY: Well, it's really hard to say. You know, everybody says you've got to have good reflexes, good eyesight. I think the determination is one of the very, very big deals.

A lot of these guys that really, really do good, they don't drive for the money. They drive for the pure fun of driving a race car, and it's a love affair. It was a love affair with me, I think with Darrell, probably with Jeff, too, to just go out and compete and win races and meet all competition.

But, you know, you've got all these things going with you and then there's some people that's got -- it's just fate. Some people are destined to do certain things. You know, did you ever think you'd be on TV when I first met you in 1970, '71 when you was in Washington, D.C. on 1:00 at night and...

KING: I remember that, Richard.

PETTY: OK.

KING: You don't think it. Good point, Petty. Thanks for remembering the years, too.

PETTY: Oh, yes.

KING: Darrell, what do you think makes a good race car driver?

WALTRIP: Well, I think it's a guy that -- first of all, that one of the things that so many young kids today you ask them what they want to be and they say I don't know. I don't really know. I don't really got a -- I don't know. You've got to have a goal. Man, have a goal. Have a passion for something.

I tell my girls all the time, tell me something you love, something you can't do without. And that's what we're going to pursue, and that was what I had. I'm just a kid from Owensboro, Kentucky. All I knew is I wanted to be a race car driver. I didn't know how I was going to do it. I didn't even know if I would ever be able to or not.

But I knew if I worked -- I was dedicated to becoming a race car driver and one day, I woke up, and I was in victory circle at Daytona, and I had won the biggest race we have. And that was like a reality to a long time dream.

KING: Jeff, how much of it is determination? How much of it is natural skill?

GORDON: I think it's all of the above, but I think when it really comes down to determining a great race car driver from a good race car driver, I believe it has something to do with what you said, thinking fast. I think someone that can use their head, know when to be patient, because there are times, believe it or not, out there on the racetrack that the driver does have to be patient, and then when to be aggressive.

There's a time when it comes, you know, to be into the race and you've got to make a gutsy move to win that race. You've got be prepared to know when to do it and how to put that car on the edge at the right time. But there is a lot of thinking that goes on in that race car, and a smart race car driver to me, is one that is a great race driver.

KING: So, intelligence is a big part of this sport?

GEORGE: Absolutely. I think if you've gotten to NASCAR Winston Cup racing, you've got the talent. You've got the skills that it takes. I agree with Richard, it takes the determination. I agree with Darrell. You know, you've got to want to do it. It's got to be something that you say this is what I want to do with my life.

So, there's a lot of factors that play in there, but I think when it ultimately comes down to winning or losing, I think that it's a driver that really uses their head.

KING: We'll be right back with Jeff Gordon, Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip. What a kick this is in the incredibly popular sport of NASCAR. It's popular with women as with men, and now it's crossed the lines. It's now universal in popularity. When we come back, your phone calls will be included. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: You're looking at the NASCAR control room. Probably one of the most difficult sports to cover in telecast is racing around this wide, long oval, and covering all the drivers and keeping track of laps and the like.

Our guests are three of the best ever: Jeff Gordon, who's won three NASCAR cup series; Richard Petty, who won seven, and is retired, of course, after 200 career wins; and Darrell Waltrip just retired. He won three Winston Cup Series. So, we have 10 Winston Cup Series winners among us and we go to Ardmore, Alabama. Hello.

CALLER: Yes, Larry, I would like to ask the panel, is there any chance of them retiring the number 3 Goodwrench car, the number anyway?

KING: Anyone using number three -- Jeff.

GORDON: That is a good question. You know, right now it's not out there. I've heard, you know, quotes or seen quotes from Richard Childress that they don't plan on doing that, but I'm not sure. I think maybe Darrell or Richard might be able to answer that better.

KING: Richard.

PETTY: Well, you know, I ran the number 43 for 35 years, and at the end of my career, I still the cars and stuff, and I said, you know, for me to stay out there, that 43 needs to stay out there because it was associated with Richard Petty so much that they still think Richard Petty is in car from time to time. And I think the number 3 basically, to keep Earnhardt's memory alive and things going, I think the number 3 doesn't need be retired.

KING: Doesn't need be -- Darrell.

WALTRIP: Oh, I echo every word that Richard Petty said. I miss the number three car. I miss seeing that black 3 car on the racetrack.

KING: So, who should drive it? Who gets it, though?

WALTRIP: Well, you don't want -- my ideal scenario, Dale Junior would drive it. That would be my ideal scenario and the legacy would live on. But it can't happen that way right now. But I tell you, that car being out there, just live if Kevin Harvick could have won Atlanta in the 3 car, what -- I mean, it's such a tribute to the man. I don't want to -- I don't want to push him aside. I don't want his memory to be pushed aside. I don't want his number and his car to be pushed aside. There's a lot of people that have a lot invested in that car, in that number and in that reputation and I think it should live on.

KING: But the other side says, though, Jeff, baseball has retired number 42. It's Jackie Robinson's number. No one will ever wear that number as long as the game is played. No Yankee will ever wear number 3. It was Babe Ruth's number. That's the other side. You memorialize it by never seeing it again.

GORDON: And I understand that. I think that the difference is that it's never really been done that way in our sport. So, you know, I don't know if that means it's going to start happening now. Although I think that, you know, whoever does get in behind the wheel of a number 3 car is going to have an awful lot of pressure.

KING: That's a load.

GORDON: Those are some big shoes to fill right there. I mean, Kevin Harvick is doing a great job with the 29 car. I can't imagine if the that 3 was on the side.

KING: Johnsonburg, Pennsylvania, for Gordon, Petty and Waltrip. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: My question is what does the panel feel about the soft wall technology? Is that a way to go or is there a lot of work to go on that?

KING: Richard, on the soft wall concept.

PETTY: There's still a lot of research. Listen, NASCAR and all the crew and all the factory cars, people from Dodge, GM, Ford, all these people are thinking about this stuff. They're looking at things. We get suggestions all the time. NASCAR gets suggestions all the time, and everybody is doing everything they can. And you know, there is nothing -- no way to make everything completely safe. I mean, we get football players with concussions, we get them with broken backs or broke legs. You know, it's kind of a deal that there's nothing safe.

KING: How about other aspects? How about other...

PETTY: Let me go to the safety. John Glenn went up and went around the world, landed in the ocean. They picked him out, took him home. He wandered around and in three or fours weeks he fell in the bathroom, liked to killed himself.

So, there's nothing safe. We are looking, NASCAR is looking, everybody is looking for safer ways because, you know, the fans don't come out to see the wrecks. They come out to see actual door-to-door, fender-to-fender, smoke flying and see race and that's what we want to give them.

KING: Darrell, what about the shoulder harness and the new helmet ideas?

WALTRIP: Well, I think that's a great concept, and I think it's proven. We have data -- a lot of this stuff we talk about like, oh, gee I never thought about that before. Oh, gee I don't know if that will work or not. Well, oh, gee, this is 21st century. That helmet restraint, oh, it's a little uncomfortable getting in and out of the car with it, but that's better than not getting out of the car at all. So, I think it's something that needs to be mandated. I think full-face helmets need be mandated.

These are not things that you can leave up to driver. I've been a driver. I know. I drive in my t-shirt because my uniform's too hot, and an open-face helmet. And soft wall technology, it depends. New Hampshire could probably benefit by doing something to their walls. Some other tracks, it depends on the situation, depends on the racetrack.

KING: Jeff, do you use the full-face helmet? Do you use the shoulder gear?

GORDON: Absolutely, I've been using a full-face helmet for years because it goes all the way back to my quarter-midget days, sprint car days, and stock car racing, you know, a lot of guys use open-face helmets for quite a while, and I will say this, from what I understand in the times I talked to Dale about the open-face helmet, a lot of times, you know, his theory was, hey, this a lighter piece on my head. So, if I do take an impact, maybe it won't be so much weight up high on my head that will allow my head to travel too far forward.

So, he was thinking of it in the safety aspect, but I think the head and neck system, it seems to be the best way to go about that, full-face helmet, the HANS device that connects to the helmet. I am wearing it now. I started wearing it at Vegas.

Unfortunately, it's taken me a while to get to where it would work. I've been trying it since last summer, and just could not get comfortable with it, and had other issues trying get in and out of the car. Now, we -- they've modified them a little bit better for the stock cars. We can get in and out. It still hurts my collarbones, but I'd rather have sore collarbones after the race than have other injuries like a neck injury.

KING: Like being there after the race.

GORDON: Exactly.

KING: We'll be right back with Jeff Gordon, Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip and more of your phone calls. Tomorrow night, what's going on with the stock market? And is something going to happen tomorrow with Mr. Greenspan that could change it. Four experts will be here to discuss it. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALE EARNHARDT, NASCAR DRIVER: On the safety side of it, guys, we're racing. And you know, you've got have something to protect the fans and that's a cement wall and a fence. And we're the guys on the other side and we've got very safe race cars, and we know that risk level when we get in car. I use the best safety equipment I possibly can. We know the risk, but we're racing. There is a danger level. There is a level of -- that you've got to think about. So, they keep working to try to do everything they can to make the car safe. NASCAR is not sitting and looking and watching and waiting. They're working hard to try to make the car safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: This is Richard Petty's last race as a professional driver, and as luck would have it, he does crash in this race. This race was -- you see the famous No. 43. This was also Jeff Gordon's first race. And there you see Richard Petty walking away healthy.

Jeff, he -- did he give you something that day?

GORDON: Yeah, I don't know if Richard remembers it or not, but at the drivers meeting -- it was a real treat for the drivers to be a part of that event, because as it happened to be Richard's last race, he gave a memento to every driver in that starting field. And I still have it today. I believe it's a money club that has his insignia on it and where you started, your starting position that day.

PETTY: No money in it, though, right?

(LAUGHTER)

GORDON: No money in it, though.

KING: Let's go to calls. Sarnia, Ontario, hello.

CALLER: Hello. My question is for Darrell Waltrip, and I want to know if it was easier for him or harder than he thought to get out of the car and step into the broadcast booth.

WALTRIP: Actually, it's been a lot easier than I thought, and the main reason is I'm at the track every week, just like I have been all my life. I'm around the people I care about. I'm still involved with the sport I love. And I get to talk about it, and these other two guys will tell you that yeah, I like to talk.

And I really like to talk about racing, and I like to share my knowledge and what I've learned with the fans at home. So it's been a perfect transition for me to get out of the car and go into the television booth. I've enjoyed every minute of it so far.

I've got a great team. The guys I'm working with are helping me, and it's really a great opportunity for me. Not many people have a second career.

KING: Richard, do you miss riding? Do you miss racing?

PETTY: Well, I really missed it basically the first year. You know, I'm still involved. I still own race cars. We've got three cars right now. And I always owned my own cars and drove my own cars. I just quit driving.

And yeah, I missed the driving part, but still yet I'm still involved in it. My son's driving. We've got John Andretti and Buckshot Jones driving for us now. So, that keeps me pretty busy right now.

KING: Jeff, are you religious? Do you bring faith to this field?

GORDON: Oh, absolutely. You know, every day of my life, but also out there on the racetrack. And I'm -- I've been very blessed obviously, but my faith, I think it helps me get through a lot of the ups and downs that you're going to have in racing, and also, I think helps my family, especially my wife, to be comforted by whatever may happen to me out there on the racetrack.

KING: Darrell, are you?

WALTRIP: Oh, by all means, and you know, we talked about the scriptures that Stevie had given to me to put in my car and she'd given to Dale since 1994. And Dale Earnhardt's death has saved a lot of people from going to hell, because a lot of people realize, Larry, you can't wait, if you don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ, you can't wait, because Dale Earnhardt, he didn't know he was going to go on that wall and die. It happened just that quickly.

So, that's the message, and that's what I live by.

KING: You complete the cycle, Richard? Are you also -- do you bring faith to what you do?

PETTY: Yeah, I have a lot of faith in what God and how he's got everything planned and we have to do the best we can with what we've got to do it with. So -- and as life progresses, you have to take the good with the bad, and you know that somewhere in there know that there's a great plan and you just have to go along with it.

KING: Stafford, Virginia, hello.

CALLER: Hi. This question is for Jeff. What do you think the odds are of a female driver actually becoming more prevalent in the sport?

GORDON: That's a good question. Actually, Shawna Robinson is supposed to do some Winston Cup races this year. I believe she's actually been in a Winston Cup car before. But she's showed some promise.

Like I said earlier in the show, I grew up racing against other females all throughout my career, and it seems some do very well. So I think that there's some potential out there, and it's all about getting the right opportunity. You know, you've got to be at the right place at the right time to meet someone that can put good equipment underneath you. You've got to get good experience throughout your career.

Only the best of the best make it to NASCAR Winston Cup racing, but it does not discriminate among anybody.

KING: Let me take a break. We'll come back. We'll try to find out why this sport has gotten so popular. 64 percent of the viewers have attended college or beyond; 41 percent earn more than 50,000 a year; 38 percent live in the South and that's changing much more to an all-encompassing sport; 40 percent of all viewers are women; 40 percent of all attendees are women. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: This is Richard Petty's last race as a professional driver, and as luck would have it, he does crash in this race. This race was -- you see the famous No. 43. This was also Jeff Gordon's first race. And there you see Richard Petty walking away healthy.

Jeff, he -- did he give you something that day?

GORDON: Yeah, I don't know if Richard remembers it or not, but at the drivers meeting -- it was a real treat for the drivers to be a part of that event, because as it happened to be Richard's last race, he gave a memento to every driver in that starting field. And I still have it today. I believe it's a money club that has his insignia on it and where you started, your starting position that day.

PETTY: No money in it, though, right?

(LAUGHTER)

GORDON: No money in it, though.

KING: Let's go to calls. Sarnia, Ontario, hello.

CALLER: Hello. My question is for Darrell Waltrip, and I want to know if it was easier for him or harder than he thought to get out of the car and step into the broadcast booth.

WALTRIP: Actually, it's been a lot easier than I thought, and the main reason is I'm at the track every week, just like I have been all my life. I'm around the people I care about. I'm still involved with the sport I love. And I get to talk about it, and these other two guys will tell you that yeah, I like to talk.

And I really like to talk about racing, and I like to share my knowledge and what I've learned with the fans at home. So it's been a perfect transition for me to get out of the car and go into the television booth. I've enjoyed every minute of it so far.

I've got a great team. The guys I'm working with are helping me, and it's really a great opportunity for me. Not many people have a second career.

KING: Richard, do you miss riding? Do you miss racing?

PETTY: Well, I really missed it basically the first year. You know, I'm still involved. I still own race cars. We've got three cars right now. And I always owned my own cars and drove my own cars. I just quit driving.

And yeah, I missed the driving part, but still yet I'm still involved in it. My son's driving. We've got John Andretti and Buckshot Jones driving for us now. So, that keeps me pretty busy right now.

KING: Jeff, are you religious? Do you bring faith to this field?

GORDON: Oh, absolutely. You know, every day of my life, but also out there on the racetrack. And I'm -- I've been very blessed obviously, but my faith, I think it helps me get through a lot of the ups and downs that you're going to have in racing, and also, I think helps my family, especially my wife, to be comforted by whatever may happen to me out there on the racetrack.

KING: Darrell, are you?

WALTRIP: Oh, by all means, and you know, we talked about the scriptures that Stevie had given to me to put in my car and she'd given to Dale since 1994. And Dale Earnhardt's death has saved a lot of people from going to hell, because a lot of people realize, Larry, you can't wait, if you don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ, you can't wait, because Dale Earnhardt, he didn't know he was going to go on that wall and die. It happened just that quickly.

So, that's the message, and that's what I live by.

KING: You complete the cycle, Richard? Are you also -- do you bring faith to what you do?

PETTY: Yeah, I have a lot of faith in what God and how he's got everything planned and we have to do the best we can with what we've got to do it with. So -- and as life progresses, you have to take the good with the bad, and you know that somewhere in there know that there's a great plan and you just have to go along with it.

KING: Stafford, Virginia, hello.

CALLER: Hi. This question is for Jeff. What do you think the odds are of a female driver actually becoming more prevalent in the sport?

GORDON: That's a good question. Actually, Shawna Robinson is supposed to do some Winston Cup races this year. I believe she's actually been in a Winston Cup car before. But she's showed some promise.

Like I said earlier in the show, I grew up racing against other females all throughout my career, and it seems some do very well. So I think that there's some potential out there, and it's all about getting the right opportunity. You know, you've got to be at the right place at the right time to meet someone that can put good equipment underneath you. You've got to get good experience throughout your career.

Only the best of the best make it to NASCAR Winston Cup racing, but it does not discriminate among anybody.

KING: Let me take a break. We'll come back. We'll try to find out why this sport has gotten so popular. 64 percent of the viewers have attended college or beyond; 41 percent earn more than 50,000 a year; 38 percent live in the South and that's changing much more to an all-encompassing sport; 40 percent of all viewers are women; 40 percent of all attendees are women. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There you see all the merchandising involved in NASCAR, T- shirts. Everything gets sold -- hats. This is a very, very, very big business with an increasingly immense loyal fan base.

By the way, in December of '99, "Sports Illustrated" asked 40 NASCAR insiders to rank the century's top drivers, and Richard Petty was ranked No. 3, Jeff Gordon No. 5 and Darrell Waltrip No. 9. That's all time for the 20th century.

Avon, Indiana, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Just to let Jeff know, we're big fans in Avon of his, but this question is for Darrell. Do you feel a conflict at all when you're broadcasting the race and then trying to cheer for Michael at the same time?

WALTRIP: No. I don't -- I feel -- I feel a little bit awkward at times. I did at Daytona. But listen, that was the Daytona 500, and the kid had never won a race. And all he ever wanted to do was win one race. And I try to look at him like I would any other driver out there, but he is my brother. And I don't -- I try not to overdo it, but I do want to watch out for him.

I'm up there where I can see him, and I see him do things that I wish I could call him on the radio and say, don't do that. But I try not to -- I try to be fair with all the drivers. But like I said, he's a guy -- he's somebody I love and he's my brother and I've got to take care of him. But I try not to overdo it.

KING: Jeff, what is it like, the last lap when you know you're going to win?

GORDON: There's no feeling like it. You know, I think Richard mentioned earlier, you know, you're not thinking about: "OK, how much is this race going to pay? If I don't win this race, you know, how much money am I going to lose?" It's not about that at all. It's about getting to that finish line first. It's about beating the competition. It's about accomplishing something that you worked extremely hard for: that you and your entire team, you know, had a goal, and that was your goal, was to win that race. And there is no -- no...

KING: So you can't explain it.

GORDON: There's no way to describe it. No, it's exhilarating, it really is. KING: Richard, Bill Hartack, the great jockey, told me once that he rode in anger, that he wanted to win, anger drove him. Did you ever use anger as a weapon?

(LAUGHTER)

PETTY: I don't know if you use it for a weapon or not, but sometimes it gets -- gets you woke up. You know, you try to keep your emotions in check as much as you can. You keep everything going. You try keep control of yourself so that you can keep control of the car.

And every once a while, anger will get you to. But, again, you know, like with Darrell. I've had a little anger with Darrell. But, you know, most the time you keep it in check, and then when race is over you go have a little speech.

KING: You want to beat that other driver, don't you, Darrell?

WALTRIP: Well, yes, and...

KING: And you don't like him when you're going past him?

WALTRIP: It's hard. It's hard for me to be Richard Petty's friend when I'm competing against him.

KING: Yes, that's what I mean.

WALTRIP: It's hard for me to be Jeff Gordon's friend when I'm competing against him. I have a great deal of respect for both of them, but when I had my helmet on and if they nudged me or they pushed me or they shoved me, I might retaliate.

But let me tell you this. You don't win seven championships. You don't win three championships. You don't win 100 races. You don't win anything if you let your emotions always take control of what you're doing. You have to keep them in check, and there is a proper time and place.

KING: Controlled anger.

WALTRIP: Controlled anger.

KING: We'll back. Another call or two and our remaining moments with Jeff Gordon, Richard Petty and Darrell Waltrip. Don't go away!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an incredible situation now. Are they going to race to the line? This is an interesting rule situation, Jim. You are allowed race to line once the yellow has come out. Cale Yarborough did that. Richard Petty is counterattacking. This may be the race that we're looking at here as they sweep up into traffic, a highly dangerous situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming down the front straight, here they are, Sam. They will come across the yellow line just about together, but Petty has the lead by the nose of the car. Richard Petty was just in front of Cale Yarborough as they came across the line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Let's take another call. Ennismore, Ontario. Hello.

CALLER: Hello. I would like to ask Darrell Waltrip which of the racetracks did he find the most difficult to race?

WALTRIP: I want to follow up one thing real quick. Most of the guys that race this right out there on racetrack, as a driver, you -- everybody out there is your "frienemy," and I think that's kind -- that's a word that I think describes our relationship: frienemy.

And the tracks that are hardest to drive -- I love the short tracks. That's where you can go have fun, kind of slip-slide around, bang around on each other, and nobody really had to got hurt. Daytona and Talladega are the toughest that we have, I think. Darlington is certainly demanding, but Daytona and Talladega were always the two I worried about the most.

KING: Jeff, what's your toughest?

GORDON: You know, I think that in order to win the Winston Cup championship, you've got to like every track out there and try to find whatever it is that is difficult about a track that you don't run well at, and try to get around it. And Texas has been that one for me, and I'm bound and determined to turn it around this year. It's been a very difficult track for me and a lot of competitors. But I think the road courses are actually some of the most difficult because you turn left, right, shifting, braking, something you don't do every day, but...

KING: Richard.

GORDON: This one we've got coming up this weekend at Bristol is pretty tough.

KING: Connecticut.

KING: Yes, it is.

KING: Richard, what was your toughest?

PETTY: You know, as long as it was a racetrack, I loved it I didn't...

KING: You win 200 races, you didn't have a toughest.

KING: Orlando, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Hello. Hi, guys

KING: Hi.

CALLER: Clarence Willard. What would you guys advice would you give the young upcoming drivers?

KING: What advice?

CALLER: What advice could you give up and coming drivers that are going to come into the sport?

KING: All right, Richard, what would you tell them?

PETTY: I don't know. Find something to do. You know, again, we talked about it the first part of the show, that you've got to have this determination, like Darrell. He said OK, I'm going to do it. I go out and I'm going to make it work. So, you know, you start Saturday night deal, if that's the best thing you do or whatever you've got a chance to do, then that's what you do, if its go-carts or motorcycles whatever, and...

KING: Race.

PETTY: ... you know, how far do you want to go? That's the big deal and how determined you are and are you willing to take five years of your life to find out whether you want to be a race car driver or not.

KING: In other words, Darrell, what would you say? Pay the price?

WALTRIP: Determination, that's the key word. Determination, and have it in your heart and be true to yourself and pursue it. Pursue it with all your heart, and you will be successful.

KING: And Jeff, what would you say?

GORDON: Well, with today's world of racing in NASCAR Winston Cup, there's a lot of things that go on. It's not just about getting in that race car and whether you have the talent or the desire to drive the race car. Now, you're talking about your schedule -- you're constantly scheduled doing things for your sponsors, appearances. You've got fans, media.

There's so many things that now make your life so much more complicated, and it's how well you balance that. So, if you want to get to NASCAR Winston Cup racing, just remember, it's not going to be easy. It's not a cakewalk. It's a lot of hard work, and I don't mean just about what happens on the racetrack. A lot of it's what happens off the racetrack just as well.

KING: And the odds, remember, are always against you.

GORDON: Sort of.

KING: Yes. Thank all very much, Jeff Gordon, Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, 10 Winston Cup series among them. great champions, all.

And tomorrow night, financial expert Suze Orman, and four others, are going help navigate this rocky economy. If you'd like to send in questions early, you can do that. Just log on to my Web site, cnn.com/larryking.

On Wednesday night, Jenny Craig will be here with us. Probably the most famous name in weight loss in the world, and what a treat we have for you on Friday night, Tony Randall and Jack Klugman, the odd couple, together here.

Stay tuned for "CNN TONIGHT." I'm Larry King. Good night.

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