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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
Free-for-All Friday for May 4, 2001
Aired May 4, 2001 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LA KEISHA WOLF, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I'm supposed to graduate on May 12th, and there's been a bomb threat.
RICHARD ARRINGTON, FORMER BIRMINGHAM MAYOR: It's now a time for things to change here. They were not convicting the likes for crimes against blacks. That was a conspiracy of silence here in this side of the city.
LOU TAYLOR, NIKI TAYLOR'S BUSINESS MANAGER: Basically, Ms. Taylor suffered severe internal injuries both to her liver and her abdomen area.
JOHN GLENN, FORMER ASTRONAUT: I don't think we're quite at that stage of space tourism yet.
DENNIS TITO, SPACE TOURIST: It is so spectacular, it is so rewarding, I believe that I am extremely privileged to have had this opportunity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women. It's finally a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, he deserves it. He's much better looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The winner of "Survivor, The Australian Outback..."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: Talk fast before the bell. Say what you have to say. It's "Free-for-All Friday."
Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to "Free-for-All Friday." You know the drill. Lots of topics. Talk till the bell rings. I think it's a buzzer today, though. Then we'll move on.
Let's meet today's guests. Mildred Gaddis is a radio talk show host at WCHB in Detroit.
Mildred, good to have you with us.
MILDRED GADDIS, WCHB RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you very much. BATTISTA: In New York, we welcome back Sam Greenfield, host of "The Sam Greenfield Show" on News Talk 1050.
Sam, good to see you. I missed you last time.
SAM GREENFIELD, WEVD RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Bobbie. Nice to see you.
BATTISTA: In San Diego, Lynn Harper, a Libertarian radio talk show host on KOGO/KSDO.
Lynn, nice to have you with us.
LYNN HARPER, KOGO/KSDO RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thanks, same here.
BATTISTA: And here in Atlanta, Kevin Miller, radio talk show host and programming director at WERC in Birmingham, Alabama. Kevin was nice enough to drive all the way back from Birmingham.
KEVIN MILLER, WERC RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.
BATTISTA: Thank you.
All right, let's talk about cell phones again. Is one of those responsible for an accident that seriously injured super model Niki Taylor? She is recovering from internal injuries received in a car accident earlier this week. The driver of the car says he did run off the road when he looked down to answer his cell phone.
Sam, are these just accidents waiting to happen?
GREENFIELD: Evidently. You know, this is the third time I've been on CNN and been asked about cell phones, so I brought one. There has to be a new set of laws from people who support the use of cell phones. You hear, "Well, we have laws for this for you to pay full- time attention to the road." There's new technology, and it's not the same as turning on your radio. You turn it on, it's set. You have to dial all those numbers, and the more you look down -- ask Niki Taylor. The thing is if Niki Taylor's name had been Claudine Taylor and she wasn't a world-famous model, this story wouldn't have been discussed. Not her story anyway.
BATTISTA: Well, Lynn -- what kind of laws?
GREENFIELD: About these things, that you can't use these while you're driving. You just can't.
BATTISTA: Oh, you want a total ban. You're saying you want a total ban.
GREENFIELD: You just can't.
Lynn, that isn't going to sit well with most people.
HARPER: Bobbie, I have to tell you, I am a Libertarian, and that means that I'd like to see a little bit less government and more responsibility for us. I'm thinking to myself that use your head, don't use the cell phone when you're driving and please don't give them a chance to give us anymore laws.
BATTISTA: Mildred?
GREENFIELD: Laws are used, though, to protect us from the morons. Bright people...
BATTISTA: But that's the point. People don't use their...
GREENFIELD: You're right. Bright people don't need the laws. Morons do. And that's why we have to have the laws.
BATTISTA: Mildred?
HARPER: Yeah, but that's saying that most of us are morons. And I think that's not really fair.
GREENFIELD: No, no, you only need one moron. You don't need 50. You need one looking down going, "Oh, I'm sorry." No, no, just one.
MILLER: Let's just trust the government to solve all our problems. That seems to be the message Sam's talking about. Trust the government, Sam?
GREENFIELD: No. It's see -- you're making this a government issue.
MILLER: You said we're morons.
GREENFIELD: Do you have red lights? No, no, do you have red lights? Do you have yellow lights? Do you have green lights.
MILLER: Right.
GREENFIELD: Well, this is a law that says people won't die as frequently if you restrict their use of this phone. I don't see the big deal. This isn't someone coming to your house and going, "Give me that phone."
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Wait a minute. Are we talking about banning cell phones, Sam, in cars?
HARPER: I've got to disagree with that.
GREENFIELD: We're talking about using them on the side of the road in an emergency only. That's what I'm talking about.
GADDIS: I'm going to -- yes, thank you very much.
HARPER: I don't think you can equate this, though, for red light, green light versus cell phones. That's really not a fair thing to do. And the more laws we have, the more we're going to be shackled. BATTISTA: Let me go to the car capital of the world, Detroit, and get Mildred in here.
GADDIS: Yeah, that's right, the car capital of the world. You know, I'm one of those people who came into the 21st century kicking and screaming with some of this technology. I can honestly say that I only got a cell phone probably about four months ago because I realized that there are times that it is essential that persons -- that people be able to communicate with others. However, as advanced as we are with technology, there must be some kind of way that some brilliant person will design a mechanism whereby one does not have to remove one's hand and total attention from driving. Whether or not government should be involved in protecting us from ourselves is indeed a legitimate question. However, I think that throughout history, we have seen that there have been times when it became necessary for us to be protected from ourselves whether or not I'm conscious and sensitive to someone else's one issue. If I want to drive haphazardly and hurt those I care about is one thing, but the question is: Do I have the right to impact upon your quality of life? And my position is no.
MILLER: I think what we're forgetting here, there are millions of people each and every day that use cell phones safely. You have a lot of people that work in sales, a lot of people who work in government that depend on this former communication to get by. If all of a sudden we ban it, what's next? What's next in the name of safety?
GREENFIELD: Maybe 50 more people who would be alive.
MILLER: I guess we can't trust ourselves. I guess we need government to tell us what to do. Is that what we're going to have to do, Sam?
GREENFIELD: You don't trust yourself to drink -- we don't trust ourselves to drink and drive.
MILLER: So cell phones -- driving with a cell phone is the same as driving.
GREENFIELD: You know, I mean, I know in the South they have to- go cups, but you know, in most -- you don't have -- you know, you can't do it. There has to be a sense of that.
BATTISTA: Let me get the audience in on this. Joe, what do you think?
JOE: Well, a lot of people don't realize that just pulling over to the side of the road increases your chance of an accident four times. I'm an automotive engineer. My personal phone is a hands free. But if you're going to consider laws, you should just grandfather into it that it's, you know, future cars should have them installed if they want them as an option.
GREENFIELD: Hands free you mean?
JOE: Hands free.
GADDIS: You know what is more tragic here is that here we have a super model high profile American citizen and everybody seems to be consumed with whether or not we ought to be allowed to use cell phones in our cars. This is a discussion that should have been taking place far sooner than now, and I realize there have been increments of discussions. But it seems at this point because a high-profile celebrity person has been injured, that finally, we'll begin to address this issue.
And I think the one thing we must be concerned about is how this impacts on all citizens and not just the few of us.
GREENFIELD: Yes.
MILLER: Well, we look at that, though. How many studies have been done on cell phones before we arbitrarily ban them? Sam, what about it? Would you be in favor of some type of study before we ban them?
GREENFIELD: A study to do what?
MILLER: To determine how distracting they are. We talked about a hands free device. What about that?
GREENFIELD: Oh, yeah, let's have -- but see, that's the thing. You want to study that will just delay the banning of the phone. It's going to get banned. If someone's famous kid...
MILLER: You're telling me cell phones are going to get banned?
GREENFIELD: Someone who's famous is going to have a kid who's 17 that's going to die in a car crash from a cell phone, and that will end that. I promise you.
BATTISTA: Let me take a phone call from...
GREENFIELD: It's got to be someone famous.
BATTISTA: ... New Jersey. And it's -- who is it? Greg.
CALLER: Hi, Bobbie.
BATTISTA: Hi.
CALLER: Hey, listen. I'm a driver and I drive for a living, and I see these people with the cell phones and they're all over the road. They cannot keep control of their car. If they want to use a cell phone, pull over to the side of the road. I mean, they made a law up here about a year ago that when it rains out, you have to put your headlights on because people were so stupid, they didn't -- I talked to people and they thought they were putting their headlights on so they could see better.
BATTISTA: Well, you know, you have a good point, because I think a lot of people think they are better at driving with a cell phone than they actually are. We're not very good judges of each other.
(HORN BLOWS)
GADDIS: You know what?
BATTISTA: What the heck was that?
GADDIS: Well, it didn't come from Detroit, I'll tell you that.
HARPER: That was the guy with the cell phone objecting to all of this, I think.
BATTISTA: Yeah, that was our buzzer for today. We're not using the bell. That's an improvement.
GADDIS: You know, somebody raised the question whether or not studies have been done. One thing we do know is that the statistics show that men tend to have more accidents using the cell phone than women do. So ladies, that's the good news.
BATTISTA: Oh, great, you just opened up a whole other can of worms, Mildred. We're not going there.
I've got to go to break. And that brings us to our TALKBACK LIVE viewer vote question today: Should it be illegal to use cell phones while driving? Weigh in and CNN.com/talkback. And while you're there, check my daily note today -- I was complaining about customer service -- and drop us an e-mail.
Up next, is racism alive and well on college campuses? We'll be back.
ANNOUNCER: There are about 100 million cell phones in use in the United States; about 76.5 million people use them while driving.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, of course, this is the last day of the Florida legislative session where they've been talking about reform so that electoral process, of course, that became a big controversy last November. Governor Bush says he will -- that's Governor Jeb Bush says "We'll sign this reform package." Let's listen to what he has to say about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: This year, the priorities once again are public education, funding social services adequately, focusing on infrastructure. And we can go down the list all the way down to maybe 30, 50 before you would find people saying, "Oh, yes, the government ought to be funding campaigns."
So, you know, there maybe some disagreement amongst us on that particular subject. But I was happy they did that they did. Same people that were complaining about that were the ones that were upset that when I ran for office, I accepted money from out of state and now they want to match it with government dollars. It's just not hard to argue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Governor, there seems to have been a notion back in November that the system suddenly needed tweaking but not necessarily overhauling that. A lot of the problems the stem from lack of former education. With this comprehensive legislation that just passed, is there an admission that it's simply fact there is quite -- and in fact would be totally overhauled, what does that say about the results in November?
BUSH: Well, I think the system worked in November. That was clear. The laws were upheld and the system worked and the judiciary upheld every step along the way. They did their part and it worked. But election as close as that one was, where you're involved in two- one-hundredth of a percent or three-one-hundredths of a percent, no state could have gone through that and had in a totally localized system, which is the tradition in our country, no state would have been able to pass that test. So from that experience and listening to the concerns of a lot of people -- supervisors of elections, the secretary of state's office, voters, people that were concerned, Jim Smith and a lot of very dedicated public servants, people interested in this -- went across the state. They gathered up the things that could be better. They did a great job doing that. And then the legislature responded.
And so today, we have a single standard for the machines that I think is going to be the envy of the country. We have a single standard for recounting ballots that will be the envy of the country. We have the provisional ballot, which is something I didn't realize was an important issue. But by that input, that is now something that I think is really meaningful.
There's some reforms in our absentee ballot process that became clear were worthy of consideration. Voter education is part of it, a centralized voting file is part of it. We took advantage of the scrutiny that the state got, and had we not done it, shame on us. I mean, I think this is part of what politics and good public policy ought to be about. When you're aware of something, you ought to respond. And that's exactly what we did, and that's what our focus has been here in Tallahassee. Rather than trying to relive the past, we've been focusing on making sure that 2002 looks a lot different.
QUESTION: Have you thought about whether if you had in November this comprehensive model for elections, the system here, would the results have been different.
BUSH: Yeah, I know where you're going with this. Well, all I can tell you is that the current occupant in the White House has won the election. He won it every step along the way. At some point, you know, it's time on move on. And fortunately, I've got a job that kind of requires me to move on and that's what I'm doing right now.
CHEN: Florida's Governor Jeb Bush speaking with reporters just a short time ago, talking about a deal reached in the Florida legislature earlier in the day. Of course, this all grows out of last November's election controversy in the state of Florida. They've been looking for the last six months a possibility of reforming their system down in Florida. They've now come up with a plan that will mean no more punch cards, no more mechanical levers, no more paper ballots in Florida.
They plan to do this by 2002. And the governor saying today that his state has learned its lesson from last November's experience, that they will make these modifications. And in his words said a state system will be the envy of the country when this happens by 2002. Again, Governor Jeb Bush of the state of Florida saying that he will sign into law an agreement reached among legislators in Florida today that will make way for big changes in the way Florida's elections are handled in the future.
That story is one we're following here on CNN. Now let's go back to TALKBACK LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: An agreement between protesting students and the Penn State administration stipulates that the university will commit to 10 full-time faculty members teaching African or African-American studies, set aside $350,000 over five years for students who double African or African-American studies with another major, and institute diversity classes during orientation.
BATTISTA: Welcome back. Two racially charged issues in the news this week. One a carryover from the past, the other somewhat surprising for today, which leads us to the question: Just how far have we come?
This week on Penn State's campus, black students say they've been receiving anonymous threats and that the school has become a dangerous place. Meanwhile in Alabama, it took nearly 40 years to convict ex- Klansman Thomas Blanton, Jr. in a 1963 church bombing that left four black girls dead.
Former Alabama attorney general Bill Baxley claims the FBI withheld key evidence in the case for all these years, including tapes of Blanton planning the bombing. The FBI denies that. We may never know the true story. That may have been lost in the last 40 years or so.
But let me go first to Kevin, since you're from Birmingham. Was it a fair trial?
MILLER: I think there's grounds for appeal on that. The trial is over, you have to respect the opinion of the jurors. A lot of people have said that, the composition of the jurors. There have been a lot of questions that we've been talking about on WERC concerning the fairness of the trial, the change of venue. The lawyer had only two months to prepare. There are a lot of questions, but I really don't look for this to be overturned based on the sensitivity of this issue.
BATTISTA: And Mildred, let me pose a question to you. It does make us wonder how far things have come in the last 40 years.
GADDIS: You know, you made the statement that one of the incidents this week appear to be surprising. Well, it's not surprising to most black people in America, because we understand that although time has passed and there have been some advances, we also know that racism is institutionalized in this country, and, therefore, you will continue to have these kinds of things happen. Forty years, 40 years, it took 40 years, but fortunately, there has been some conclusion to this case. Am I shocked by it? No, I'm not. I think it's 40 years a bit too late.
BATTISTA: You know, I think that why the Penn State situation was surprising, Sam, is because we always think of college campuses these days, you know, as being these little liberal pockets where there's a lot of openness and exploration. We don't expect to hear about those kinds of racial tensions.
GREENFIELD: I was a dorm director at a college in Upstate New York a couple of decades ago, and there was black student who had long, long earthworms placed under her door 2:00 in the morning. And someone banged on the door and ran away. Small black population at this school. Students felt very threatened and raised appropriate -- I don't mean they burned down anything, but raised appropriate hell over it.
I want to believe that what happened at Penn State -- I want to believe it was the act of idiots, not necessarily bigots, guys who like call up when they were children and said prankish, stupid things. There is always going to be discrimination and prejudice. We're not that far removed from monkeys that beat each other up over the color of a tail or length of tail or color of fur. But the practiced institutionalized discrimination that goes on has to be attacked and not with programs teaching African-American studies but by holding up the students who did this if you can find them and getting their pictures out and expelling them and using them as an example of what not to be.
There's too much bullying and picking and racism going on, and we kind of shunt those people to the side like some amorphous cloud of hard-to-get-hold-of people. We know who they are. People know who they are on that campus. Take that money and offer a reward to turn them in.
BATTISTA: I think you know what, though? I think, Lynn, it runs deeper than that. We have, you know, a lot of interns on our staff that go to various colleges who, you know, some of them have told us it is really bad on their campuses as well, that there are racial tensions, not just with African-American students and white, but Asian and Hispanic as well.
HARPER: Well, Bobbie, here's the problem is what Sam said. Discrimination is always going to be among us. If it isn't race, it's going to be religion. All things being equal, it will be the tall against the short, the blue eyes against the green eyes. But when you talk about the Penn State situation, when you take one side of the coin and institute African-American studies, you're going to get the other side of the coin of those people who are resentful and they're going take action.
It's a shame, it's reprehensible. The bad news is it happened. The good news is, at least in this country, overt acts of racism and this thing that happened with Blanton appear to be getting better on the surface. What more can I say? This is the nature of the beast.
GADDIS: I think that Sam is absolutely right. One of the problems that consistently happens is that you have these institutions that tend to be protective of the culprits. He made the suggestion that the institution has a responsibility to expose those who are guilty and expel them from the institutions. Far too often, they are protected by the institutions. And until...
HARPER: I'm also -- I'm from San Diego. We not only have a black situation, we have a Hispanic situation, we have an Asian situation. You have groups against groups. It's always going to happen. And from Libertarian point of view, if you're going to legislate against it, you're going to make it worse underground. And going underground makes it worse.
BATTISTA: Let me take Corey on the phone. He's from Michigan. He's a student at the University of Michigan.
Corey, go ahead.
CALLER: Hi, I just wanted to say that it always surprises me that people seem to be surprised when something like this happens. Racism is with us. It's been with us. So why does someone think in less than a generation from the civil rights movement that all of a sudden, everything is fine? These issues aren't going away. And so when they pop up, people just seem oh so surprised.
BATTISTA: Are you saying you have similar problems on the U of Michigan campus?
GADDIS: Absolutely.
CALLER: Not me specifically but they're there. And I'm always aware of when they are happening, who they are happening to.
BATTISTA: But does the student body or support organizations ban together to try to counter them or spread understanding or, you know?
CALLER: Yes, absolutely.
GREENFIELD: Cory, I think that part of the problem is it's not that we're surprised so much; we're saddened. A lot of people died and a lot of people went through layers of hell to try to make this country racially and socially equitable. And we had hoped that the next generation would learn from the travails that we went through and improve on it. And it saddens me it hasn't happened. I don't know if I'm surprised (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sad.
MILLER: I think we don't give enough credit to the next generation, though. I mean, look at the generation right now. You have an era where people listen to music of all kinds of people. You have sports athletes. We talk about how bad it is, but how good is it? How far have we come...
GADDIS: Please don't use sports as an example.
MILLER: Wait a minute, I'm sorry. I gave you the time. Please don't interrupt me. Show me common courtesy.
GADDIS: Please don't use sports as an example. Let me courteously make that request.
MILLER: Thank you. Anyway, back to the story here, the bottom line is if we're going to dwell on the negative, if we listen to Sam, we're all going to be depressed, because we're idiots and we have to trust the government.
Thank you, Sam, for that positive message today. In addition, though, back to...
GREENFIELD: I don't recognize my opinion now that you've read it back to me, but thank you for the interpretation. It was creative.
MILLER: Well, yeah, we could have the mutual admiration society all day long. But the issue here is: What about reverse discrimination, which no one wants to bring up? But the bottom line is we talk about institutional racism, what about the solution? Is the solution to discriminate against other people? Is the solution to discriminate against white males?
GREENFIELD: Is this the love song of the poor picked on white guy?
MILLER: Is that what you're talking about?
GREENFIELD: Oh, OK, it's the long song of the poor picked-on white guy.
MILLER: Well
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: ... didn't have a jury of his peers in his trial, Sam.
GREENFIELD: OK, yeah. The middle class, upper-middle class white guy is being hammered by those vicious Asians and African- Americans and Hispanics. Absolutely. Let's all duck and cover.
MILLER: Sam, you may not like that, but a lot of people agree with me on that issue.
GREENFIELD: Back to the '50s. Nuclear bombs coming. Draw the shade.
MILLER: You can make fun of me or you can address the issue, Sam.
GREENFIELD: Absolutely.
BATTISTA: Let me go to Phil in the audience here for the last word on this.
Phil, go ahead.
PHIL: Well, from my perspective as a teacher and also a former college student, I would like -- you know, I don't know the specifics of this particular issue...
(HORN BLOWING)
BATTISTA: Go ahead, you can finish.
PHIL: ... of this particular issue, but I do know that there is a great discrepancy in how many students are represented by the black population in college campuses across the nation. I think there is a great need for more recruitment, for more support services to get our young black youth into the college systems, to get them into the professions that they belong in that they deserve to be in. I myself have many fine young African-American students who I would love to have as professionals, that I would work for or work with. And I would love to see our country rise to the occasion not 40 years later. We're a little late and behind. These things need to be happening right along.
BATTISTA: All right, Phil, thanks very much. And that is the last word on that. We've got to take a break here. We could have done a whole show on that. We thought about it this week, so we may have to revisit that. But in a moment, where are the Democrats? We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Talk radio industry trade magazine "Talkers" lists President Bush's missile defense plan, energy and the environment, the president's first 100 days in office, the stock market and reality TV as the top five topics of the week.
BATTISTA: Let me get a couple of e-mails in here, because it's kind of hard for the e-mail folks to stay up with the subject so I'll backtrack a little bit. Ben in Los Angeles says, "There are headsets and speakerphones available quite inexpensively. Come on folks, don't be stupid." That was on cell phones.
Derek in Nashville says, "American racism will get better when white and black leaders call out problems and then talk about solutions. To many leaders, Jesse Jackson, simply talk about how bad the problem is and not the most important factor: a solution."
BATTISTA: All right, well, President Bush had quite a week announcing plans for a new missile shield, reaching a provisional agreement with Congress on tax cuts, and setting up a commission to look at Social Security reform. It does have some people wondering where his Democratic opposition is these days.
Kevin, let me start with you. How would you -- you think the president had a pretty good week or what? MILLER: I think he had a great week. Got the missile defense out. Talked about education reform. Even, what, Ted Kennedy was for it. Bottom line here is whether the press likes it or not, whether anyone likes it or not, George W. Bush, great first 100 days doing a great job and all is well in the land of Texas and America for that matter.
BATTISTA: Sam?
GREENFIELD: Actually, all is not well in the land of Texas. George Bush left them with quite a debt and deficit. But that's another story.
His programs aren't going that well. The missile defense system is not going to be allowed in because no one believes some kind of guard-all shield is going to stop missiles from coming in.
Number two, his education program had the vouchers, the linchpin of the program, stripped away in a committee vote. They just stripped away the idea of not giving aid to countries that talk about abortion or talk about family planning. The amount of money he got on the tax cut was $400 million less. You know, if that's a great week, I hate to see what a, you know, a bad week is.
MILLER: Pre 100 days, they were -- Sam, the talk was not even having a tax cut. Isn't something better than nothing for the president?
GREENFIELD: Yeah, I mean, if you want to give that one, you know, one percent of the population that 44 percent of the tax cut, absolutely. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. I agree with you. He ponied up to the people who got him elected. That is indisputable.
MILLER: And apparently the Democrats on Capitol Hill ponied up because they agree with him, too. There's no major opposition.
GREENFIELD: Well, they knocked a couple of hundred billion off of it and this thing isn't even out of committee yet. I think a significant point is he doesn't have a budget yet and he doesn't have a tax cut yet and it is a hundred days. And frankly, a hundred days is a bellwether of another administration from a long time ago and I don't think it fits here.
MILLER: Well, what did other administrations do in their first hundred days, if we're going to criticize him?
GREENFIELD: Which one do you want to talk about? Roosevelt's, where he put in 15 different government programs during the Depression?
MILLER: What about Clinton's...
(CROSSTALK)
BATTISTA: Let me get Mildred and Lynn in here first. (CROSSTALK)
BATTISTA: Let me get Mildred and Lynn in here because...
HARPER: OK, well, Bobbie, I'll tell you that Bush was not my president because given the choice of two, I settled for the least worst. If you held a gun to my head, fine. That would be Bush. So I've been in the process of watching to make sure that he doesn't really stumble and I'd have to say this week he hasn't fallen flat on his face so I'd have to give him a thumbs up. And all the interns in the White House appear to be intact so I'm happy for this week and I continue to wait and see what happens.
BATTISTA: And Mildred, where is the Democratic leadership these days?
GADDIS: Well, I think everybody's still reeling back for what they are terming the presidency of illegitimacy. I don't think that you find the majority of Democrats agreeing with George Bush on anything. There are many who are still having difficulty accepting him in the role that he's in. But be that as it is, he is the leader of this country.
I don't see any surprises. He's pretty much been trying to push exactly what he promised he would during the campaign, responding to a selective few. I am excited, however, that the voucher attachment has been stripped from his education piece and we can breathe a little bit easier.
I find no excitement. What I'm most impressed with is how skillfully he has mastered coming off as doing pretty well in, as a leader, the leader of this country. So good for him.
BATTISTA: That has a lot to do with his style.
HARPER: Yeah, I like what Mildred has said, because she said how skillfully he has mastered coming off as a leader. Remember, I am talking to you from California, where we have a massive electrical crisis and Mr. Bush basically, that the message we got was hey, you're on your own because you didn't treat me so well during the election.
So I'm not looking too favorably on him, believe me. I'll be the first one to pounce.
MILLER: Well, wait a minute because...
GREENFIELD: We lowered the bar...
MILLER: (unintelligible).
GREENFIELD: We lowered the bar for George W. Bush so much since the debates that if he doesn't show up...
GADDIS: Yeah.
GREENFIELD: ... with his finger and his nose and drooling we think it's a good week.
MILLER: See, but now, but we attack the president all the time.
GREENFIELD: You know...
GADDIS: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
GREENFIELD: All he's -- look at that.
MILLER: The bottom line here is...
GREENFIELD: He walked, he talked, he danced, he's a genius.
MILLER: ... he had a great hundred days. He is the president but we attack his intellect when, in fact, he went to Yale. He's a successful businessman. But that's all we have to do, attack, attack, attack.
GREENFIELD: I attack his intellect because he lives in Texas and said when he goes to Mexico he's going to speak Mexican.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: I hope you don't do mornings.
BATTISTA: Let me...
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Because that would be a hell of a way to wake up in the morning.
HARPER: ... when daddy was the president.
BATTISTA: Let me get the audience in here quickly. Matt, go ahead. What do you think?
MATT: I just think it's great they were talking about actual government problems rather than the sexual fiascoes of the White House. So I think that's great.
BATTISTA: Oh...
MILLER: It's a big improvement.
BATTISTA: Got to take a break.
When we come back, the world's most exclusive tourist club, space station vacations and whether money really can buy everything. And we'll get to that "Survivor" thing. Hang on. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BATTISTA: Who says money can't buy happiness? It bought millionaire Dennis Tito his dream on board the international space station. Russia sold him a ticket after NASA turned him down. Astronaut John Glenn says, though, the system isn't really ready to accommodate tourists in space.
If you can pay, should you be allowed to play? Lynn, what do you think? I mean does, should he be up there? Would you go?
HARPER: Well, let me just say this. If I had the money and I didn't have to trade in any of my children, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Can you imagine the once in a lifetime opportunity of seeing that blue ball and all six billion people on the planet and get some perspective? But I'm saying that if he has the bucks to do it and they take the precautions and have the right training where he can't do any harm, I say right on Dennis Tito and I'm right behind you.
BATTISTA: The rest of you are silent. You wouldn't...
GADDIS: I would...
GREENFIELD: Speaking as someone who gets sick on the Tilt A Whirl, I think that...
HARPER: All right.
GREENFIELD: I think that it's interesting to me that this guy is there. You know what words I bet he's heard more than anything? Don't move.
BATTISTA: Yeah, don't break that.
GREENFIELD: Don't touch that. Sit down. That's what he has heard. So, what did he spend, $20 million? Is that right? $20 million?
BATTISTA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
GREENFIELD: So, you know, god bless him. If he wants to go for $20 million, I imagine it's an indescribable experience and if he's got the bread, that's great. But eventually you're going to get a goober on there who's going to go what does that do and that's going to be the end of the tourist trade.
HARPER: Oh, you're not going to be going there, Sam, come on.
GREENFIELD: Oh, was that funny? No.
BATTISTA: Do you think that's why NASA is so pouty about it, Kevin, really?
GREENFIELD: NASA had a horrible tragedy 15 years ago. They don't need, you know, and...
BATTISTA: Yeah, I know.
GREENFIELD: ... although she had nothing to do with it... BATTISTA: Some liability thing.
GREENFIELD: ... there was a civilian there. I think it's, no. They're smart not to, they're smart to turn them down.
MILLER: Well, Sam brings up the...
HARPER: Yeah, but don't blame that on the civilian, on Christa McAuliffe.
MILLER: Sam brings up the Challenger...
GREENFIELD: I said she was...
HARPER: That's not fair.
GREENFIELD: Excuse me, I said she wasn't to blame.
MILLER: It's tough to get a word in edgewise around here. Anyway, Sam brought up the Challenger tragedy. He's right about that. Look at what happened with the submarine involving the Japanese fishing trip when you have people that aren't trained...
GREENFIELD: Right.
MILLER: ... that don't have the ability to think on their feet. That is a dangerous situation. We can make light of it, but certainly we should leave it up to the professionals until the space technology has come further, I would think.
HARPER: Yeah, but Tito was trained, they say.
GREENFIELD: We agree.
HARPER: He had training.
MILLER: That great Russian training.
GREENFIELD: Well, he had training.
BATTISTA: Isn't this guy...
GREENFIELD: He had training where...
BATTISTA: Isn't Tito like, the guy's like a physicist or something.
GREENFIELD: Where did he have training?
MILLER: We're going to give you 20, I'll give you $20 million to train me how to be an astronaut.
GREENFIELD: Six Flags Over Vladivostok is where he had training.
BATTISTA: No, but I mean I think his background, though, isn't it in something like astrophysics? GREENFIELD: It's not on astronautism.
MILLER: Maybe he watched the "Jetsons," I don't know.
BATTISTA: Let me go to the audience on this one. Francis (ph)...
GREENFIELD: He saw "The Right Stuff."
BATTISTA: Francis, what do you think?
FRANCIS: I believe that people who are allowed to fly in space if they paid money, they should do it, because NASA, our space program, needs money. They are under funded. Currently they can only patrol three percent of the skies available at night with their astronomical equipment. That's only three percent. Ninety-seven percent isn't patrolled. That means an asteroid could come flying at our planet and hit us because we can't patrol all of our sky.
Apparently if they get the, can't get the money from our government, they could get it from someone who wants to fly in space and cover more parts of our sky and do more things they want to do.
BATTISTA: Yeah, so it's a money thing. That's why Russia, I think, probably let him go. But Mildred, what do you think?
GADDIS: I think that we all ought to say thanks that NASA has standards. I think it's pretty pathetic. But, you know, if you're a guy with all the money and you've done everything else, one of the things that wealth affords you in this country is the opportunity to have bigger toys and bigger experiences.
GREENFIELD: Mildred, you notice that none of the Russian cosmonauts are near him in any of the pictures. They won't even be photographed with him.
GADDIS: Good for them.
GREENFIELD: They're over here working and he's going it's great, you know?
MILLER: I think it comes down do you want to turn space station Freedom or the international space station into the Motel 6. I think that's really, it demeans the process.
GREENFIELD: I do, too.
BATTISTA: Some day maybe. I don't know. Sarah, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED GUEST: What about us who don't have $20 million? We each should have an equal opportunity to go up in space and explore.
BATTISTA: Ah, jealousy. Green with envy. Space envy.
GREENFIELD: I'd be green. BATTISTA: Well, some day it probably won't cost $20 million, is my guess. Don't you think that's where we're headed?
GREENFIELD: It's going to cost more than most people can afford for a long time.
BATTISTA: All right...
MILLER: Maybe Art Bell will take a look at it.
BATTISTA: I knew that was going to come up.
MILLER: Well, hey.
BATTISTA: All right, we'll take a break here. There's the buzzer. Tina and Colby are coming up next. "Survivor" surprise, even the odds makers had that one wrong. Did you? We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BATTISTA: Welcome back. Did you survive "Survivor"?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SURVIVOR")
JEFF PROBST, HOST: In true SURVIVOR tradition, it comes down to one final vote. The winner of "Survivor: The Australian Outback."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BATTISTA: It was down to Tina Wesson, a 40-year-old mother of two, and Colby Donaldson, a 27-year-old auto customizer and fan- described hotty and to the surprise of odds makers and tons of viewers out there, the woman won. Of you guys, who's a "Survivor" watcher? Were any of you surprised by it?
GREENFIELD: Right. Here.
BATTISTA: Sam, you love the show?
HARPER: I watched it, too. Me, too.
GREENFIELD: Every week.
GADDIS: I have a life. I don't watch "Survivor."
GREENFIELD: I do, too. I have a...
BATTISTA: I set out this season as...
GREENFIELD: I think it's great. Listen, it's not "Playhouse 90," but it's great television. It's beautifully edited and produced and filmed and 43 million people watched it and pushed "Friends" to second place because no one believes that anybody in New York who earns what they earn has those apartments. So people watched "Survivor."
BATTISTA: Yeah, CBS must the big winner.
GREENFIELD: And it's entertainment. It's entertainment.
BATTISTA: CBS was the big winner last night, that's for sure.
HARPER: It seemed to be a surprise.
GREENFIELD: Well, Colby is an idiot for not having voted Keith off, Tina off, because then he would have won the million. He would...
HARPER: Yeah, but do you know why that is, Sam?
BATTISTA: Do you think they had a pact or something?
GREENFIELD: Yeah, they did. They had a pact...
HARPER: Do you know why I think it is?
GREENFIELD: ... and he stuck to it. He was a noble man.
HARPER: I don't -- oh, no, Sam, you must be in another world. You know what I think it is...
GREENFIELD: I am.
HARPER: I was watching -- obviously. I was watching "Survivor" here in the...
GREENFIELD: I watched that, too, by the way.
HARPER: Sam, can I finish?
GREENFIELD: Yeah.
HARPER: I was watching "Survivor" and I saw last week's episode where Colby's mom was apprised and she came and saw her son and I've, I mean a mother's love and a son's love was just a beautiful thing. And then, if you remember, Colby has never made a mistake. He's played the game. He's not made any friends deep down and he said he had this strategy...
GREENFIELD: Dare to win a million.
HARPER: And all of a sudden it comes down, it comes to picking Keith, nobody liked, or Tina, who everybody did. And it seemed to me that Colby was actually giving the game away to Tina.
GREENFIELD: I agree.
HARPER: What I think it is, mom was a blonde of a certain age, slim lady. Tina, blonde, of a slim, certain age lady and...
GREENFIELD: You saw when she won, he was ecstatic.
HARPER: And right when, and when the time came for him to pick...
MILLER: I guess.
HARPER: ... all of a sudden image of mom came, Colby blew it and lost the million bucks. I think that's what happened.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: OK, OK. Keep going.
HARPER: I'm not saying you guys...
BATTISTA: Kevin, are we boring you?
HARPER: No, no, no. I'm not saying that...
MILLER: Well, I'm saying that this is a great recap.
HARPER: I am not saying that there's an Oedipus complex here.
MILLER: OK, OK. Keep going.
HARPER: I'm just saying I think that's what happened.
MILLER: OK, well, for those that missed "Survivor," that's pretty much what happened last night so you have a...
BATTISTA: Oh, yeah. We have a big group of students in the audience today that are traveling in a band competition and they were all taping it at home and hadn't seen it. We've completely ruined it for them. We're so sorry.
In fact, let me go up to the audience and Colleen (ph) -- sorry we couldn't help that.
HARPER: A tough show to try to tape.
MILLER: Yeah.
HARPER: A tough show to tape.
BATTISTA: Yeah.
COLLEEN: Just a mom walking...
GREENFIELD: You've got to avoid newspapers, TV.
BATTISTA: But you didn't know until you came to the show today, right?
Well, what happened was one of the other chaperones, as a matter of fact, the band director's wife, knew. We had gotten back from a concert last night and she, she said do you want to know and we were like OK. But we did not tell the kids and have kept it a secret. And when we walked in here and saw what was going to be covered, oops, you know, so... GREENFIELD: You should have stuck your fingers in your ear -- but you would find out eventually.
COLLEEN: I didn't know.
BATTISTA: Well, we're sorry.
MILLER: Well, you get back to the "Survivor" phenomenon and just the passion people have for it, in a way, maybe we should use it to help our election system. Maybe we should put the candidates on an island instead of the primary system...
BATTISTA: Yeah.
MILLER: And then the, you know, vote whoever off the island we don't like. I mean maybe that will raise some interest.
BATTISTA: That works for me. I'd go with that.
MILLER: But this whole "Survivor" thing, it's very scary.
BATTISTA: Chris in New Mexico...
HARPER: Why is it scary?
BATTISTA: Let me go to some fans first and then we'll talk about the state of television -- Chris in New Mexico.
CALLER: Hi, good afternoon. I've just come to realize that I'm no longer the dumbest person in America. It would have to be Colby. The name of the game is to win the million dollars and if he chooses Keith, he's walking home with a million dollars.
GREENFIELD: I agree.
CALLER: And with Tina there, he really had no chance.
BATTISTA: You think it was on the up and up?
HARPER: You are underestimating mother love, my friend, let me tell you.
BATTISTA: You think it...
CALLER: Well, you know, some of us here at the post office in Farmington, we think CBS may have paid Colby some money to let Tina win.
BATTISTA: Or maybe it was the politically correct choice. Everybody was walking around saying a woman would never win "Survivor."
GREENFIELD: You know something? If you...
CALLER: Well, a woman shouldn't win. Colby carried the load on that show the whole time and she just was under that radar. So... GREENFIELD: If that show was rigged, they would be very foolish, because there's a tremendous amount of money to be made by keeping the show straight and honest. They don't want to make the mistake that quiz shows made in the '50s. The show will still have huge ratings. You don't have to rig it that much. If Colby had won it, it would have been great. He looks like a male model. He could have gone on to great things. If she wins, it's great, because a woman won and women identify with that. But to rig it would be really stupid, I think.
BATTISTA: I, you know what, I didn't watch much of this one. Did you guys, Kevin and Mildred? Did you watch the first one? I liked the first one. I got bored by the second one. I thought it was a little plodding.
GADDIS: When I said to you that I have a life, I was really sincere. I've never watched a single episode of "Survivor."
BATTISTA: Oh, the audience is with you.
MILLER: I would...
BATTISTA: I have to tell you, if our audience is any measure about future "Survivor"s, CBS could be in trouble. I don't know.
GREENFIELD: It may be an idea whose time may come and go, I agree with that.
MILLER: I don't.
GREENFIELD: This one, this one was more plodding. If they do it, they're doing it, I think, next time in Kenya. And Kenya makes the Outback, in some ways, look like Boca Raton in terms of weather.
MILLER: The difference be...
GREENFIELD: It can be very tough there and very, very, very hot, 120 degrees.
MILLER: I think the difference between "Survivor 1" and this "Survivor" is when we heard the hype during the Super Bowl, during the Ravens game, it was all about younger, fitter, more attractive...
HARPER: Yeah.
MILLER: When you have the raw emotion of "Survivor 1" look at Rudy. He gave up. He made a pact with Richard, the same thing. You have to applaud the nobility, I think, of Colby keeping his vow. I would have liked to have seen him win. I think it would have been nice.
GREENFIELD: Yeah.
MILLER: It's nice, I guess we have a politically correct resolution. Women can identify with it. We can all sing Chaka Kahn's "I'm Every Woman." But the bottom line here... HARPER: I don't know, for what it's worth...
MILLER: But the bottom line here is just the passion that everybody has...
HARPER: You know what...
MILLER: ... for this, it's kind of scary.
HARPER: For what it's worth.
MILLER: Shouldn't we be worrying about other issues besides Colby, Tina, Richard, Rudy?
(CROSSTALK)
BATTISTA: OK, it's fun. It's like soap operas.
(CROSSTALK)
HARPER: For what it's worth, you guys...
(CROSSTALK)
BATTISTA: Let me go to Nick in New York.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Like Mildred, I have a life.
BATTISTA: Let me go to Nick (ph) in the audience. Nick, you get the last word.
NICK: I have to agree with Mildred that I have a life and I watched about five minutes of the show and there's no way that's a "Survivor." I mean it's just a resort on the beach.
BATTISTA: OK.
GREENFIELD: Yeah.
BATTISTA: Like I said, our audience was not big on "Survivor."
GREENFIELD: People lost 35 pounds at some resort.
BATTISTA: Not big on that show. All right, we, we'll check the viewer vote when we come back right after this.
A California Catholic high school fired a substitute teacher last week after she taught a Spanish class in her sports bra. She took off her shirt after a student complained that class was boring. "It didn't seem like a big deal, but maybe there's something totally wrong with me," she said.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BATTISTA: The question today was should it be illegal to use cell phones while driving? Let's check the TALKBACK LIVE online viewer vote and the totals are 66 percent are saying yes and 34 percent are saying no.
We have just a little bit more time here so there is going to be a celebrity version, supposedly, of "Survivor." If so, Sam, who would you like to see on that show?
GREENFIELD: Oh, my god. I'd like to see maybe Ben Stein, Elle Macpherson, Claudia Schiffer, Jon Stewart. That's it. Just those four.
BATTISTA: That would be interesting. Mildred? Oh, you don't watch the show.
GADDIS: No.
BATTISTA: You don't care.
GADDIS: I'll tell you what, though. Here's what I'd do. I'm going to change this whole thing. I would not recommend, I'd just like to be stranded on one of those islands with Sidney Poitier. That would change the whole thing.
BATTISTA: All right, Lynn?
HARPER: Well, I have to tell you, I thought the question was who would you like to be stranded on celebrity wise. There isn't a celebrity on earth I would be, but let me say this. If I have to be with one person on the island, I want to be with my husband Bill. I love you, Bill. Thank you very much.
GREENFIELD: Oh, that's annoying.
BATTISTA: And Kevin, top that.
MILLER: Well, being on free for all Friday, I feel like this has been a episode of "Survivor", but I go back to the political process. You have Al Gore, John McCain, President Clinton, President Bush, Pat Buchanan and Bob Novak and fight it out and see who wins.
BATTISTA: What do you...
GREENFIELD: You've got to go with the guy who looks like they know where to get food. I'm voting for Clinton.
BATTISTA: All right, that is all the time we have for today.
Sam Greenfield...
GREENFIELD: Thank you.
BATTISTA: ... Lynn Harper, Kevin Miller, Mildred Gaddis, thank you all very much.
MILLER: Thank you.
GREENFIELD: Happy weekend.
HARPER: Thank you.
GADDIS: Bye-bye.
BATTISTA: All right, same to you. Have a good one and you, too, at home, have a good weekend and we'll see you again on Monday for more TALKBACK LIVE.
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