THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Daryn Kagan.
JIM CLANCY, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome. I'm Jim Clancy.
KAGAN: And we'd like to send that welcome out to all of our viewers around the world for our special hour on CNN and also on CNN International as Beijing, Osaka, Toronto, Paris and Istanbul go for the 2008 Olympic Games. In fact, some time this hour, one city will be catapulted to a new level of international standing. That city will be named as the host city for the 2008 Summer Olympic Games. Our crews are poised for the announcement that could come at any moment.
Bill Delaney is in Toronto, Mike Chinoy is standing by in Beijing, Jill Dougherty is in Moscow, where the decisive meeting is being held and voting is under way, and Peter Hume is at his post in Paris. We will also be keeping an eye on the long shot cities of Osaka, Japan and Istanbul, Turkey.
We're going to start our globe trotting trip with our Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty. She is outside the hotel where the International Olympic Committee is voting at this moment behind closed doors -- Jill, hello.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.
Well, they've already had actually one round of voting already. But they did not get one country or one city to get 50 percent plus one vote. So they are now engaged in the second round of voting and we'll have to see. Conceivably, there could actually be four separate votes. But right now, we're waiting for the second round and everybody, of course, waiting on pins and needles. They've all made their presentations, all five cities, the two leading cities, of course, Beijing and Toronto.
So, as soon as we hear, and we're waiting, we'll tell you.
KAGAN: Jill, as I understand it, after the first round if there's no simple majority the city that received the fewest amount of votes in round one is knocked out. Do we know what city that is?
DOUGHERTY: Exactly. Exactly. No, actually we do not know who was knocked out in the first round. So we're waiting. It's actually kind of, we saw on the screens how they actually voted. It almost looks like a big cell phone with a screen on it. They put the number in. They have to confirm it. They actually have two minutes to vote then they have to confirm it then it has to be registered. So each vote could take several minutes, perhaps three, four minutes. And then finally it gets registered and then they make the announcement whether or not there is, you know, one city has fallen by the wayside and they go on to the next voting.
KAGAN: All right, Jill, in fact, we're getting word here at CNN in Atlanta that Osaka, in fact, is the first city to be eliminated. So, in fact, that would knock Japan out of the voting and that leaves it them to Beijing, Paris, Toronto and Istanbul. The voting goes on. Here's Jim.
CLANCY: All right. Well, the awarding of the games, of course, the first big victory, you could say, in any pursuit of the Olympics. But unlike the athletic competitions, there's no silver for second place. As it now stands, Beijing is considered to be the front runner. Its past, both in terms of its human rights record, and a previous Olympic snub, a loss by two votes, may well determine its future.
For more on that, let's go to CNN senior Asia correspondent Mike Chinoy. He's standing by at Beijing's Millennium Tower -- Mike?
MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, there is a mood of tremendous anticipation. For the past several hours several thousand students have gathered here. They've been entertained by a cultural show which is still going on. At the same time, crowds of people are beginning to make their way into Tiananmen Square. There's a heavy police presence there. The government is uncomfortable with large movements of people that it has not organized.
But the mood here has been one of very, very intense support for the games. You can see this group here, these students have been singing, waving flags and banners. Let's have a listen for a moment. For the Chinese, these games are of particular significance. China has never hosted an Olympic games and many Chinese see this vote right now as something of a referendum on China's overall standing in the international community.
The Chinese feel that if they get the games, that this will be an acknowledgement that China is assuming its rightful place in the world, that the world is recognizing China as an emerging power and they are very aware, of course, of the criticisms of human rights. The response to that is a couple of different response. The government's line is that sports and politics shouldn't be mixed. But, of course, the Olympics are a highly political process.
But from people like this, from young people, from others, artists and students, people like that we've spoken with during the course of the week, the refrain you hear over and over is that China, after many years of what is called reform and an open door policy, sees this Olympics as a chance to accelerate that process, to become more engaged with the rest of the world and that the contact with the international community and the greater scrutiny from the international community will act as a catalyst for at least more social openness. Few people believe it will have any meaningful impact in terms of lifting the political repression. But in terms of recognizing China's stature in the world, in terms of accelerating the social inside the country, it could have an enormous impact -- Jim?
CLANCY: It wasn't that long ago that China lost an Olympic bid to Sydney by just two votes. There's a lot of disappointment, I know, there in Beijing as a result of that one. This time around, should it be another loss, how would it be received?
CHINOY: That's a very interesting question. Government officials say that the Chinese people are more mature and will take it in stride. On the other hand, there has been a very, very strong strain of nationalism coursing through Chinese society, nationalism that has been deliberately stoked by the government of President Jiang Zemin as a way of rallying people around the Chinese Communist Party.
There's also been a lot of tension in recent times between China and the United States. And so there is, of course, some concern if Beijing does not succeed that there will be some kind of anti-American or anti-Western backlash. Another more longer-term question is even if that happens now, whether or not there will be some backlash towards the government itself, whether or not people will begin to say is something wrong with our leaders because twice within 10 years they tried for the Olympics and they failed.
So the political fallout and the international fallout if China doesn't get it will be very, very important and interesting to chart over the coming months.
CLANCY: All right, Mike Chinoy, you stay there. And we're going to continue our look at some of the Olympic cities -- Daryn?
KAGAN: We continue our trip around the world. As Beijing tries to outrun its controversies, it must also stay one step ahead of Toronto. The Canadian city is considered by many to be close on Beijing's heels. Our Bill Delaney is at Toronto's Union Stadium and joins us now with a view of that city's standings -- Bill, good morning.
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn, and very well said. They do feel themselves close on the heels of Beijing, China here. Everyone here in Toronto believes they're the number two choice. They believe if this thing goes more than three rounds, let alone four, it's going to fall to Toronto as the site of the 2008 Olympics.
Now, Daryn, it's actually a bit quieter here than it's been for the past 45 minutes or so as Torontonians begin to focus on a large video screen where they're watching live the events in Moscow. Now, I think we can switch to a camera now where you will see one rather interesting event, a couple of people staring down the building right next to me here. They're on some sort of suspension wires and we're told they're going to swing right into the stage itself.
They'll be doing that on Front Street. Front Street is where we're standing here in downtown Toronto. Many thousands gathered. It all started with a pancake breakfast this morning. They say they served about 14,000 pancakes to people here in this city that very much believes although an underdog, they have as good a shot as anyone short of China for getting these Olympics.
Now, one gentleman very much involved in all of this, Rahul Bhardwaj. Rahul standing here beside me on Front Street, is the vice president of the Toronto Olympic Bid Committee. Rahul, you've been at the center of this thing. You probably didn't get a lot of sleep last night. In fact I happen to know you didn't...
KAGAN: We're interrupting that report. It looks like we might have a winner. Here is IOC President Juan Antonio Samaranch.
JUAN ANTONIO SAMARANCH, IOC PRESIDENT: I want to express the rectitude of the International Olympic Committee and the entire Olympiad movement to all five candidate cities as well as the five other applicant cities for the excellence of their work and for their dedication to the cause of the Olympics. One city only will be designated. But the achievement of all others is to be commended.
And now, the result of the vote is the games of the 29th Olympiad in 2008 are awarded to the city of Beijing.
The official delegation of the city of Beijing will now join the whole room here for the signature of the host city contract. You are kindly requested to stay for a few more minutes. Maybe you can be interested in the results before the press. In the first round, Beijing, 44; Toronto, 20; Istanbul, 17; Paris, 15; Osaka, 6.
CHINOY: And a powerful, emotional reaction here in Beijing. Now, thousands of young people cheering, waving flags. It is hard to describe the extent of the emotion. The lyrics to a song in the cultural performance here earlier this evening talked about dreams of hundreds of years. An exaggeration, of course, but it's no exaggeration to say that people in Beijing are ecstatic at the news. Fireworks going off here outside Beijing's Millennium Monument. These young people are people who are going to take pride into the future. They represent the China that has changed in the last 20 years. That was very much at the heart of Beijing's case, that China has, in fact, changed, despite the continuing political repression, the Olympics will accelerate that change. And now, a sense of tremendous vindication from the international community.
KAGAN: I don't know if you can hear with all the celebration going on in the background. Mike, can you hear us?
CHINOY: It's a remarkable celebration. Yes, I can hear you now. The noise here was overwhelming. Chinese patriotic songs being played, young people leaping up and down. There's going to be a big party here all night long. The people of Beijing have been waiting with great anticipation. There was a kind of psychological quality to this. The Chinese, deep in the Chinese psyche there's a sense that for 200 years or more that China was taken advantage of by the rest of the world. There's a history of foreign encroachment, of colonialism. The Chinese communists used that history to win their revolution. They've played on that feeling of grievance that many, many (AUDIO GAP) and now finally they've got what they see as a kind of ultimate vindication from the international community. Beijing will now be hosting the games in 2008.
For President Jiang Zemin, too, a stunning political triumph. Jiang Zemin has staked a lot on this bid and now it's paid off. It will vastly improve his domestic political position. But much more importantly, it will, the sense of Chinese national pride that has always been tempered by a sense of a kind of chip on the shoulder attitude towards the rest of the world may now, in important ways, begin to change.
KAGAN: And as we give our viewers two scenes, one is -- one scene from Beijing, Mike, and we can see you. Also on a smaller part of the screen you see the scene from Moscow, where the vote was just taken and Beijing awarded the 2008 Summer Games.
Mike, to you in Beijing, today is a day of celebration. But ahead, much work for this city in order to be ready for 2008.
CHINOY: Well, Beijing says that they are going to be able to do that. They've got plans to spend between $15 billion and $20 billion to vastly increase the number of highways, the subways, to build a new 80,000 seat stadium, an Olympic village seating over, that will hold over 17,000 people. One of the questions that some of the critics inside China raised privately was whether or not all that money should, in fact, be spent on something like this rather than on other forms of economic development.
But the national pride factor here is so important and the Chinese seem confident that they'll be able, in these seven years, to marshal the resources to build the infrastructure. Perhaps a more difficult question for the Chinese -- who, as you can see this crowd cheering and chanting as they watch the fireworks, as they watch big TV screens showing the scene from Moscow, they are chanting "Beijing! Beijing!" A bigger question is whether or not the Chinese will be able to interact with the large numbers of people from around the world who will come here, whether the bureaucracy that is still very rigid, whether the problems of suspicion towards outsiders, how they'll deal with the thousands and thousands of journalists who want to come.
There was an incident just a couple of weeks ago of a Western journalist who was badly beaten by police for covering a concert by The Pretenders outside Beijing's Forbidden City. So all those kinds of questions are there.
But nonetheless, the scale of this triumph politically and psychologically in terms of national pride is such that it's going to generate tremendous momentum for Beijing to try and deal with this. The Chinese asked the International Olympic Committee to take a big risk. Beijing was the only city where, when the discussion about its bid came up, it was qualified by concerns about pollution, about human rights and all of these sorts of things. And the International Olympic Committee, having taken that risk of giving Beijing the games, is going to be likely to expect that Beijing will deliver and the pressure will now be on the Chinese to deliver and that, of course, is what the proponents of the games who argue that it will generate more openness, have said all along, that it's precisely that kind of pressure that will stimulate a process of change.
CLANCY: Mike Chinoy, it's Jim Clancy in Atlanta.
To be sure, there are problems that lie ahead, but I think that as we can see behind you there and in the fireworks over the city, this is a time for celebration in China's capital. And certainly you have to take note of the fact, Juan Antonio Samaranch there noting the vote, Beijing, 44. The next closest city, Toronto, with 20 votes.
This was a more than two to one upset here.
CHINOY: Well, Beijing, the memories here are strong of what happened in 1993 when Beijing lost its bid by only two votes and there were reports afterwards that there may have been some payoffs involved to get people to vote against Beijing. And so the Chinese have felt all along in a sense that they were robbed by that vote and they have invested an enormous amount of money, time, of effort to make their case this time.
It was a gamble and there were clearly political risk for the government in doing this if they had lost. But the gamble has obviously paid off and it's interesting, Jim, when I was here back then, the slogan for the 2000 Games was a more open China awaits the 2000 Olympics. The slogan this time is new Beijing, great Olympics. But that same dynamic of more contact, more confidence making China more able to deal on an equal footing with the rest of the world. It's going to be very, very fascinating to watch it play itself out between now and when the games begin here in 2008.
KAGAN: And, Mike, Daryn here. This time around also the Chinese committee getting some help, some Western help, both a British public relations firm and also some organizing, some members of the organizing committee from Sydney that helped them actually beat China back in '93.
CHINOY: That's right. They approached this rather differently. They learned from their bitter experience in 1993. They did get a public relations firm. They asked for help. They tried to do this without making any mistakes. You can see now more music, as you hear more patriotic songs have just started up again.
The one thing, the one disquieting note in all of this is in recent months here inside China the government has stepped up political repression of dissidents. But that, I think, based on everything I've seen, people I've talked to, has less to do with the Olympics per se than with the Chinese Communist Party's fear of instability at a time of dramatic economic change. China is going to enter the World Trade Organization and there's a leadership succession. And those considerations out rode the concern about offending the international community on the question of human rights.
And, in fact, the pressure on China on human rights is much less than in 1993 when the United States was still trying to link trade privileges to human rights. So the Chinese calculation was they could get away with it and, in fact, they have done so. Human rights did not, in the end, play a very big role and the Chinese got a very, very big majority.
KAGAN: And as we watch this incredible celebration in Beijing, Mike, for those who have visited the city, give us a sense of where exactly the celebration is taking place and if you could give a guestimation, how many people do you think have shown up to celebrate the awarding of the 2008 Games to Beijing?
CHINOY: Well, there are between 8,000 and 10,000 young people who gathered here. This was the one and only official celebration, officially sanctioned, very carefully organized. All the people behind me got permission through their universities. This is not a spontaneous gathering, although the feelings of joy are absolutely genuine.
Elsewhere, big gatherings have been discouraged. This is not a political system where spontaneous large gatherings of people are usually encouraged or tolerated. However, there are crowds down at Tiananmen Square, a few miles from here, and I suspect as the night goes on, those crowds will get bigger as people do come out into the streets to celebrate.
CLANCY: Mike, we're watching the pictures here as the people are going back and forth expressing their own satisfaction with the IOC's vote that awards Beijing the 2008 Olympic Games over a lot of protests by some who say that it might encourage the Communist Party leadership there. And I'm just wondering who gets the credit for this? Is it going to all go to Jiang Zemin or will it be really recognized as something for the Chinese people, for the nation at large?
CHINOY: Well, clearly, President Jiang is going to get an enormous amount of credit. He is the president of China. He's the one who would have made this decision and seen to it that everything was done in the way it was for Beijing to win the bid. But there is, I think, a much broader and deeper patriotic feeling. For the people behind me, I would argue, I would guess this is not about Jiang Zemin. This is about the nation of China, one of the oldest civilizations, a country that's gone through tremendous turmoil and upheaval, that has struggled for generations, centuries, to try and find its place in the world. It has been often a painful struggle and the psychological, political scars are still very, very deep. Many Chinese still are uncertain how to deal with the rest of the world and how the rest of the world sees them. And this decision will certainly have an enormous impact on the way the Chinese see themselves and the way they look at how the rest of the world sees them.
CLANCY: They are going to be getting a taste of that certainly when all of the correspondents and reporters and the athletes travel to Beijing in 2008. it is going to put a spotlight on the country and not only in sports. It's also going to spotlight the political, the human rights record, as well, won't it?
CHINOY: That's right. There's no question there will be thousands of journalists and there will be tens or hundreds of thousands of visitors. There are analysts, diplomats I've spoken with who feel that this government is confident because of its very large and quite efficient public security apparatus that it can do this and keep order. At the same time, seven years is a long time in China. There is going to be a leadership transition. China will have been in the World Trade Organization by then. That change is going to produce wrenching, wrenching transformation, economically and socially, much higher unemployment, a lot of social problems are going to come with that.
And so you throw into this mix now the Olympics being staged with all that that implies and it's going to have potentially very unpredictable outcomes. Some of the people outside China who supported the Olympics argued that -- and also some people here, but more outside China -- recalled the example of Seoul, South Korea.
Seoul hosted the games in 1988. and in the run-up to those games, there was a very, very widespread protest movement against the military regime of the then South Korean leader Chun Doo Hwan with regular and often violent protests in the streets. And it's widely acknowledged that Chun Doo Hwan in the end, agreed to step down rather than jeopardize South Korea holding the games.
No one expects that precise scenario to play out here. But it does show that the international spotlight, which will be increasing on Beijing for the next seven years, could have very interesting and significant consequences.
KAGAN: All right, Mike, we're going to have you stand by right now in Beijing. We want to go back live to Moscow, where our Jill Dougherty is standing by. The announcement made that Beijing wins the 2008 Games made just a few minutes ago. Now they need to conduct a little business, Jill, to really make it official. Do we have Jill with us?
CLANCY: I think we have an audio problem here.
KAGAN: All right. OK. Let's go ahead and go back to Beijing while we work on Jill Dougherty's microphone in Moscow.
Mike, a point that you made earlier about the celebration going on behind you and also to some part in Tiananmen Square, you pointed out these are not spontaneous celebrations, that kind of a celebration is not what the Chinese government seems to encourage. This is exactly the type of criticism that people outside of China were pointing out, of the problem of China not being ready to host, to have this kind of honor of hosting the Olympics. Is this the kind of thing that you would expect to ease up over the next few years or will these kind of things stay in place?
CHINOY: Well, it's an interesting question. I should point out this gathering is not spontaneous, but the emotions and the feelings of the people are totally genuine and that cheer when the word came out that it was Beijing was an absolutely genuine and spontaneous cheer. But this is one of the challenges that China is now going to be faced with. There are certain obligations that come with hosting the Olympics and particularly in a globalized world with instant mass communications, the changing nature of the media, worldwide television, the Internet, the interconnectedness here in China, where you see tremendous growth in here. Now you can maybe see the fireworks going on.
But all of this is going to create a real challenge, and that's what the proponents of the games as a catalyst for reform would argue, that it will force China in certain ways to change how it operates, how it deals with the rest of the world and with its own people because of this process that's going to go on for the next seven years.
KAGAN: Mike, we'll have you stand by. We'll be going back to Beijing, also to Moscow, to see the business. Meanwhile, we want to bring in a special guest that we have with us here in Atlanta, four time Olympic Gold Medalist gymnast Olga Korbut is here with us. And Ms. Korbut, it is a pleasure and honor to have you here with us.
First of all, can you give me your reaction to Beijing being awarded the Olympic Games for 2008?
OLGA KORBUT, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: You know, for me it doesn't matter where are the Olympic Games. I need to teach too Olympic Games to prepare them and I'm glad these cities won.
KAGAN: You think it will be good in Beijing. Some people did, have pointed out that with all the discussion about human rights and the politics, that it's not about politics, it's about sport. Is that what you believe?
KORBUT: Yes, of course. This can be politics and sport together. It's, we need to not choose. We just need to compete and ignore that.
KAGAN: Of course it was 1972 that you came to the world's attention with your incredible achievements with your Gold Medals. What have you been doing since? I don't think a lot of people know that you're living right here in the U.S.?
KORBUT: Yes. I'm becoming a citizen last year.
KAGAN: So you're an American now?
KORBUT: Yes. This is my country been before, now it's officially. And I'm looking for new stars and I'm looking for a couple of sponsors who will help me to pay more attention to Olympic Games 2008 for the babies now. But it's, gymnastics is a young sport and I need to pay attention very serious now to go to 2008 Olympics.
KAGAN: We talked about the preparation that Beijing must now do, but you're also part of the preparation, as you do look for those young gymnasts. And as we were talking while we were watching this coverage together, the people, the young athletes who will be the stars in Beijing really are babies right now. These are girls who are, what, seven and eight years old?
KORBUT: Yes, seven and eight, yes. And we need to work very hard to go to Olympic Games because, you know, now we are a baby, tomorrow we will be star. KAGAN: How old were you when you started to train in earnest?
KORBUT: When I was born.
KAGAN: When you were born?
KORBUT: Yes, because this is gymnast.
KAGAN: But the system works differently when you were going from the Soviet Union and then the Soviet Union, than it works here in the United States.
KORBUT: I was happy because it was free. This is why I'm looking for sponsors who will help me to, how to say it, to pay me, maybe who can afford it.
KAGAN: So that part of the job, part of your job is actually just finding funding to develop these young girls?
KORBUT: Yes, because I need to focus, focus for like 20 kids and one or two exactly will go.
KAGAN: So you have the intention of being in Beijing in 2008?
KORBUT: Yes. Definitely.
KAGAN: This time, but this time it would be as a coach?
KORBUT: Yes. And coach is not easy. It's harder than...
KAGAN: It's harder to be the coach than to be the athlete?
KAGAN: Why is that?
KORBUT: Because I'm responsible for the life, you know, for the babies...
KAGAN: The responsibility.
KORBUT: ... for human, for everybody. I'm like mother, sister, you know, everything.
KAGAN: And as you're looking for those little girls who are now, as we were discussing, seven and eight years old, who will be stars in Beijing in 2008, what do you look for?
KORBUT: I look for a new star. A new star. Not Olympic champion, new star who will go forward and change gymnastics like I did in 1972. because gymnastics now needs to change to live long in gymnastics, to stay long in gymnastics.
KAGAN: So it's not just about being a little girl and then being done when you're 15 or 16 years old?
KORBUT: No, no.
KAGAN: How will that be for you? Of course, you came to the world's attention as a Soviet and when you go in 2008 as a coach, it will be as an American.
KORBUT: I never paid attention for this because I was international anyway. And I love all cities, all people and I'm very glad I'm becoming a citizen of the United States because this is my, was my favorite. Now this is my country.
KAGAN: And is that the beauty of the Olympics, that it's above individual cities, above individual countries, that it brings these athletes from around the world together for competition?
KORBUT: This is like a result of your life and this is big holidays, big celebration for athletes. This is like a top of your career, what you did, what you are doing.
KAGAN: Well, it was a thrill to have you with us on our coverage. Good luck in finding your stars for 2008 and congratulations on becoming an American citizen.
KORBUT: Thank you very much.
KAGAN: Olga Korbut, great to have you with us -- Jim?
CLANCY: That was a thrill, Olga Korbut at the same desk.
We are going to take a short break here. The International Olympic Committee has awarded the city of Beijing the 2008 Olympics. The celebration continues there. Our coverage will continue here in just a moment.
KAGAN: We want to welcome back our viewers from around the world to our coverage here in Atlanta. I'm Daryn Kagan.
CLANCY: And I'm Jim Clancy.
It's been an exciting morning, hasn't it?
KAGAN: It has been an exciting morning, from Moscow all the way to Beijing as the announcement has come in that Beijing has, in fact, been awarded the 2008 Games, the Olympic Games. The celebration started immediately in Beijing and that's where our Mike Chinoy is and he brings us more coverage now -- Mike?
CHINOY: Hello, Daryn.
Well, a People's Liberation Army band is playing patriotic songs as a sea of people here are waving flags and celebrating what must be for many Chinese an enormous achievement, a sense of vindication from the rest of the world, Beijing winning its Olympic bid.
One should point out in all of the talk about the politics of this that China is a sports mad country and that the Chinese Olympic teams have done increasingly well in their recent participation in the Games. They scarfed up a great many Gold Medals, other medals in Sydney. China really is an emerging sports powerhouse and one of the things that we saw going around the city in the days running up to this is the number of people like in shopping malls where there was a basketball court set up with all kinds of Olympic signs and young people out playing ball.
There is a tremendous sense of enthusiasm when the Chinese national soccer team plays overseas. People stay up all night to watch and then come in late to work. So that obsession is one of the things that China also made a point of stressing in its bid, that there is tremendous enthusiasm for the sports quite apart from the broader issues of national pride and so on that were at the heart of the Chinese bid.
KAGAN: Good pictures from Beijing, are incredible. Mike Chinoy, thank you.
CLANCY: Well, as Mike has been talking about through a lot of this, there is controversy, even as the celebrations are under way. And two people who are certainly familiar with that are going to join us now for a discussion of what are the human rights issues, what is the best way forward? One of them very much opposed to Beijing's bid for the Olympic Games, the other one very much in support of that bid.
We're going to bring in now Harry Wu. He served 19 years in a Chinese prison camp. We're also going to be talking with Siva Yam. He is the president of the United States-China Chamber of Commerce, a with a very different view.
I want to begin, though, with Harry Wu, and ask you your reaction to Beijing getting the Games and how do you make the best of this?
HARRY WU, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I feel deeply regret that the IOC make the decision to give the Chinese, but Beijing have their rights. And that will prop up the corrupted regime and we are awarding and we are encouraging the government they did in the past 20 years. I think that we have to be aware there's a long way to go until 2008 and we never know what's going to happen. But one thing I'm pretty sure, it will not improve human rights and the situation in China is going to be worse.
CLANCY: Siva Yam, your view of this and what it may mean to some changes from the top down regarding human rights in China?
SIVA YAM, U.S.-CHINA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, first, we have to look into the history. Human rights issues in China, the situation is much better than 30 years ago when I first went to China. It was, it is better than about 10 years ago. The human rights condition has been improving in China.
I think if we open up the society, it is easier for us to impose the human rights and if we shut China down, close the door for them, there will be more abuses in the human rights. So I think to award Beijing the Olympic 2008 will be beneficial to China and also would be beneficial to the Chinese population around the world.
CLANCY: A lot of people, and I want to continue with you, Siva, if I may, a lot of people wondering, well, if you say that it's going to change, when will that change come? One of them certainly is Shan Chengfeng. It's a woman, a member of the outlawed China Democracy Party, who wrote a letter to the IOC last December saying her husband, among others, but all Chinese dissidents held in prison should be released. She's now serving two years in a prison camp. She won't be at the Games.
YAM: Right. Well, first, the Olympic 2008 is seven years from now. I think the conditions in China will continue to improve for two reasons. Number one, for the economic reason. China has been pretty good in economic development, but we all agree that the political development is kind of left behind. In order for Chinese companies to be competitive around the world, just giving people the economic freedom is not going to be enough. At some point in time the political development has to be paid attention to, which I believe the Chinese leaders will do that.
And the second...
CLANCY: We've only got a few seconds left.
CLANCY: I want to ask Harry Wu what do you think...
WU: We saw that foreign investment and -- is improving and the economic situation is improving in China. At the same time, the human rights situation is worsening. In the last couple, two months, China has killed around 2,000 peoples. And this number is, you know, larger than all the countries of the world. I don't think the economic will improve human rights in China. Economic development only benefits the Western business companies. That's it.
CLANCY: Harry Wu, Siva Yam, thanks to both of you for being with us. The controversy continues, as well it will, in the months and the years ahead -- Daryn?
KAGAN: And as the controversy continues, more importantly today, the celebration continues in Beijing as we go to break. And our coverage will continue. Let's show you more live pictures from Beijing. The fireworks and the celebration continue.
KAGAN: We're going to take you live back now to Beijing, a city that is celebrating quite heavily today after the news was announced that Beijing, indeed, will host the 2008 Summer Olympic Games. Our Mike Chinoy has been covering the story for us from Beijing and he is still there amongst all the revelers, you could say -- Mike, hello once again.
CHINOY: Hello, Daryn. Well, the fireworks, the Chinese, of course, invented fireworks, and they have been blasting away almost from the moment the decision was announced. The exuberant crowd here and from what I'm told big crowds beginning to gather down in Tiananmen Square, as well, tremendous satisfaction and exultation among the Chinese. I saw a man who came out with the cover of what's going to be a special edition of the official newspaper, "The People's Daily," with a big red headline. It said, "Beijing's Bid Succeeds." And we are getting reports that possibly President Jiang Zemin may be coming here at some point, although we haven't been able to nail down an exact time yet.
One of the interesting other factors that we haven't mentioned in all of this in terms of the political/diplomatic fallout has to do with the very vexed question of Taiwan, which China claims is a renegade province. Privately, officials in the U.S. administration and the U.S. military believe that for seven years the Olympics being staged, China may adopt a much more restrained attitude in its dealings with Taiwan. So another possible side benefit of Beijing getting the games.
KAGAN: Very good point, Mike Chinoy, a point that we might want to pick up in just a bit. First, we want to be able to go back to Moscow. And Jim Clancy has that.
CLANCY: That's right. There's the official ceremony as they get things, the business, if you will, done, Daryn. And Jill Dougherty is standing by there in Moscow with the latest for us from the Russian capital.
DOUGHERTY: Jim, we have a guest here, Mr. Tu Mintgde. He is the secretary general of the Chinese Olympic Committee and also the co- secretary of the bid committee.
TU MINTGDE, BEIJING OLYMPIC COMMITTEE: That's right.
DOUGHERTY: With a very big smile on his face. Can you tell us, what do you think won it? Why did you get the vote?
MINTGDE: Well, I think it's the primary reason because, you know, see, we're really succeeding in communicating the strong strengths of the Beijing bid. You know, I think the, which really convinced the great majority of the IOC members to, into believing that, to give the Olympic Games of 2008 to Beijing will really serve best the interests of the Olympic movement, which will equally leave a unique legacy to China and to sport.
DOUGHERTY: Were you concerned at all about the debate over human rights? Any concern that you might have lost it on that point?
MINTGDE: Well, we heard about that sort of thing, you know. We understand, you see, during the whole process of the bid we noticed it. But we had to concentrate on the, our bid work because they're just according to the guidelines set by the IOC and also you notice that the IOC wanted to make it very clear, you see, when they sent the evaluating commission to Beijing they said their task is just to evaluate the capacity, the conditions in terms of the technical and the organizational capacities.
DOUGHERTY: You've got a lot to...
MINTGDE: Yes, that's right. A lot of things. They...
DOUGHERTY: Are you going to be ready?
MINTGDE: Sure. Yes. Ready.
DOUGHERTY: How soon does the work begin?
MINTGDE: Well, it's, we set up our event committees as early as in September of 1990.
DOUGHERTY: And the infrastructure, the roads, etc., everything that has to be done?
MINTGDE: That's right. Because...
DOUGHERTY: When does that begin?
MINTGDE: Actually, you see, Beijing has already started. You see over the last two or three decades, since because of the ever growing, the economic development and also the open up to the rest of the world, the Beijing has really made big strides in the field of urban development and social progress. And, you know, this time with the bidding for the 2000 Olympic Games, we just incorporated the existing readiness of the city's plan for development together with the plan that we are going to plan for the Olympic Games.
DOUGHERTY: Well, thank you very much, and again, congratulations, Mr. Tu Mintgde, who is the secretary general of the Chinese Olympic Committee -- back to you, Jim.
MINTGDE: Thank you.
CLANCY: All right, Jill Dougherty there in Moscow.
MINTGDE: Thank you.
CLANCY: A lot of excitement generated there as Beijing wins the IOC's bid for the 2008 Olympic Games -- Daryn?
KAGAN: Yes, and from Moscow where the actual announcement was made, we go live now to Beijing, where President Jiang Zemin is speaking to the people. We will listen in. We're going to get a quick break in and we'll have more coverage for you after this.
KAGAN: Welcome back to our coverage. To our viewers around the world, once again, if you're just joining us, the site of the 2008 Olympic Games will be Beijing, China. The other four cities coming in in the voting, after that Toronto received 20 votes, Istanbul, 17; Paris, 15; and Osaka, 6. And that was in the second round of voting. It did take two rounds to get to the winner, Beijing. CLANCY: Surprising. You know, a lot of people thought that it was going to be closer than this.
KAGAN: A lot closer than that.
CLANCY: And Toronto especially considered by many people to be the safe bet, pulling 22 votes against 56, more than a two to one margin. China takes it for its first ever Olympics.
KAGAN: It looks like it was meant to be China's. Meanwhile, that means there's a lot of disappointed people in Toronto.
CLANCY: There certainly are. And let's go to Toronto now, because, as we said, it was one of the top three, certainly. Our Bill Delaney is standing by there with the latest. It can't be much of a party there in Toronto, Bill, or is it?
DELANEY: Well, Jim, let's give these Torontonians a bit of credit. They are, indeed, partying. They're determined to party anyway, a few thousand people here on Front Street in downtown Toronto. But, of course, Jim, a lot of stiff upper lips here, as well. There's real disappointment here. They really felt in these waning days before the vote that they had a heck of a shot at this. They pointed out that the last five or six choices of Olympic sites have been underdogs and they thought they really might make a go of it.
Now, standing with me is Chris Cochran (ph). Now, Chris is one of the many thousands of people here in Toronto who devoted their time as volunteers in this Olympic effort. For more than a year Chris, who's in the film production business, has been volunteering his time. What's most disappointing about this, Chris?
CHRIS COCHRAN, TORONTO OLYMPIC BID VOLUNTEER: Well, the fact that we're not the host of the 2001 Games. But, you know, in reality we really are winners. The whole purpose of making a bid was to improve our waterfront and bring much needed change to the city. And that's happening. That's going forward. So in a sense we win as well.
DELANEY: Were you hurt, do you think, by the mayor's remarks about Africans?
COCHRAN: Possibly. But, you know, in the end I really don't think it hurt at all. People vote because of other reasons, not because of a comment here or there.
DELANEY: I'm very sorry.
COCHRAN: No problem.
DELANEY: Your mayor was in Moscow. I'm very sorry, I'm coughing here. How do you feel about Beijing and its human rights record?
COCHRAN: Well, you know, I really don't think that's the question at this point. They obviously put on the best bid. The delegation has spoken and, you know, congratulations to China.
DELANEY: I apologize again for my coughing problem. Don't you think there's going to be a sense here in this wonderfully multi- ethnic city of Toronto, in which so many races live together in relative harmony, that a place like Beijing has gotten the ball?
COCHRAN: No, because I really think it comes down to who had, at this point in the delegates' minds, the best bid. I don't think it was a political decision. I think it was based on other factors.
DELANEY: Putting a good face on it here in Toronto. Again, I apologize for my coughing problems. Back to you in Atlanta.
CLANCY: All right, Bill Delaney there choking back emotion. He's assigned to one of the losing cities. Beijing the big winner this day. But there were others, as well, in the running, and in a sense, as Juan Antonio Samaranch pointed out, all are winners.
KAGAN: Are winners. I know, I don't think it's fair to call them losing cities, just perhaps that Beijing is the big winner. Now, the top three were expected to be Beijing, Toronto and Paris, but in the end Paris actually came in fourth, two votes behind Istanbul, which means that there's going to be disappointment in Paris as well. Our Peter Hume is standing by in France -- Peter, what's the mood there?
PETER HUME, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's, there is a party mood going on here at the town hall of Paris, but obviously a great deal of disappointment. You can probably see the signs behind me on the walls of this old mates 19th century room here that say "Oui, Paris, 2008!" Unfortunately for the French, of course, it was, "No, Paris!" and we've spoken to a couple of people that were involved in the preparation of that bid and they've said essentially well, good luck to Beijing and added they hope their human rights record, as they describe it, improves between now and the year 2008.
I think diplomatically as Paris was getting close to, as, rather, today's vote was getting closer for Moscow, officials didn't say so openly, but in diplomatic language they were pointing out the, what they consider to be the somewhat dubious history of Chinese human rights records.
You can probably see now the crowds inside this Salon de Fete. It is, which translates as the party room. They are beginning to thin out. There were about 1,500 guests here an hour or two ago. There wasn't a great deal of outcry when the result was announced. A lot of disappointed people. Everyone here, in fact, is, was involved in some way with preparing the bid for 2008. but small consolation, maybe, but there will still be some dancing in the streets tomorrow, which is Bastille Day, July the 14th, of course, the national holiday in France, and street parties will go ahead, but probably some of the edge taken out of those.
Back to you.
KAGAN: Peter Hume in Paris, thank you so much. And I just want to correct something I said before. Paris, in fact, did come in fourth in the first round, but as we mentioned, there were two rounds of voting and in the final round it did come in third place. So in the final count it was Beijing, Toronto and then Paris followed by Istanbul with nine.
CLANCY: But it really doesn't matter.
CLANCY: Nothing else counts...
KAGAN: In the end, yes, who gets it is Beijing.
CLANCY: Beijing has won. Let's go back to Beijing now -- Mike Chinoy?
KAGAN: And our Mike Chinoy -- hi, Mike.
CHINOY: Hello, there.
Well, the party is just getting bigger and bigger, the night sky here in Beijing brilliantly illuminated by fireworks that have been going on almost continuously for an hour or so. There was a brief interruption a few moments ago when Chinese President Jiang Zemin and the rest of the top Communist Party leadership appeared here at Beijing's Millennium Monument, Jiang making brief remarks congratulating the people of Beijing, thanking the Beijing Olympic Committee for all its hard work, urging that all Chinese people work together to stage a successful Olympics and inviting the rest of the world to come to Beijing in 2008.
For Jiang Zemin, China's president, this is a tremendous personal and political triumph and it comes at a particularly important and delicate time here in China. Next year, the Chinese Communist Party is due to hold a crucial party congress. Jiang Zemin is scheduled to step down from his key posts and there's a tremendous amount of maneuvering going on over the succession, over working out who the new generation of leaders are going to be.
This will certainly greatly strengthen his standing both among the public and within the Chinese Communist Party. It could have a significant impact. Jiang has, it's widely believed, been interested in staying on as head of the military, the chairman of the central military commission, which, in effect, controls the Chinese Army even if he steps down from his other posts. This triumph of getting the Olympics may well make that a much more likely possibility -- Jim, Daryn.
KAGAN: Mike Chinoy in Beijing. Mike, thanks so much. We also want to thank our viewers that have been joining us from around the world for this exciting coverage, for the decision of the 2008 Games, once again, going to Beijing, China.
CLANCY: And I think it's a date for China to celebrate. Certainly we heard there from the leadership, but this is a day, really, for the Chinese people, their first ever Olympics, and I think it's a bit of a coming out party there in the center of Beijing this night, and what a terrific show they're putting on. Congratulations.
KAGAN: Congratulations to the people of China. And as our Mike Chinoy pointed out, the celebration was organized. However, the joy that you saw on the faces of the Chinese people there completely spontaneous and true.
Thank you for sitting in with us here upstairs.
CLANCY: It's been a lot of fun, Daryn, as always.
KAGAN: Jim Clancy.
The news continues both on CNN International and also here on CNN, so stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMARANCH: The Games of the 29th Olympiad in 2008 are awarded to the city of Beijing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com