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America's New War

Aired September 15, 2001 - 00:00   ET


DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening and welcome to CNN's continuing coverage -- America's New War. I'm Donna Kelley. And for the next two hours, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your stories, your hopes, your fears, your questions. And tears are certainly OK at this time. We want to hear about the loved ones that maybe you've lost or you're still looking for and the heroes that you may have met along the way.

And then, at the bottom of the hour, we'll talk about possible U.S. retaliation. NATO's former Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley Clark, will be taking your questions. Then, at one o'clock in the morning Eastern time, we'll ask how safe are you? A terrorism expert will be joining us from London. And then, at 1:30 Eastern, what do you tell your children? A child psychologist will take your questions.

So grab a pencil, tell us your stories, tell us about maybe the person that you've lost or who's mission because of Tuesday's savage attacks. The number to call that we want to give you right now, whether you're in the United States or anywhere around the world is 1- 404-221-1855. Again, that number is 1-404-221-1855.

First, the latest developments for you. And for that, we turn to Jim Clancy and Colleen McEdwards. Jim and Colleen?

COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Donna. And we look forward to all of that. But we do want to begin with a new development for you. Searchers have recovered the cockpit voice recorder from the hijacked plane that crashed in western Pennsylvania.

JIM CLANCY, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities are saying that this device was found 25 feet below ground, in a crater made by the impact. The recorder has been sent to Washington for analysis. An FBI spokesman says it appears to be in, in his words, "fairly good shape." Searchers had already recovered the flight data recorder from that plane and the two recorders from the jetliner that targeted the Pentagon.

Well, turning now to other developments, law enforcement authorities say that they have made their first arrest in this investigation of the week's terrorist attacks. The person is custody is described as a material witness. And CNN's Mike Boettcher has more on the investigation.


MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four thousand special agents, chasing 36,000 leads and circulating to 18,000 law enforcement agencies a growing list of people they want to question.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Federal Bureau of Investigation has also forwarded a list of more than 100 names to numerous law enforcement organizations. These are the names of individuals the FBA would -- the FBI would like to talk to because we believe they may have information that could be helpful to the investigation.

BOETTCHER: Another FBI list, this one made public, the 19 men who the FBI says were the hijackers of the four aircraft. Seven of the men were pilots according to CNN terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. Thirteen of them have recognizable Saudi tribal names from the west and southwest of Saudi Arabia, an area where bin Laden has recruited.

PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM ANALYST, CNN: According to a source familiar with the bin Laden organization, men returning form Afghanistan who had trained with bin Laden arrived in Saudi Arabia in recent weeks and we're talking about some kind of big operation that was imminent.

BOETTCHER: The FBI searched this apartment in San Diego, where in those final stages, Monday before the attack, three men left town in a hurry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had a truck right here and they was moving out. I mean, I never seen nobody move after midnight.

BOETTCHER: The trail of another accused hijacker, Mohammed Atta, in the months before the attack, led from Hamburg, Germany to Florida and a series of flight schools, rental car agencies and apartments, then back to Hamburg, a return to Florida and a final trip to New England, where he boarded a Boston to Los Angeles flight that eventually crashed into the World Trade Center.

U.S. intelligence sources tell CNN the entire terrorist operation required so many people in special skills that they believe several terrorist groups had to be involved. Egyptian Islamic Jihad, led by this man, Ayman Zawahri, a close bin Laden associate, is one of the groups getting close scrutiny by U.S. analysts. They were photographed together about three years ago in Afghanistan.

A second man, who has not been seen in more than 20 years is also being scrutinized. Imad Mugniyeh, who is suspected by U.S. officials of masterminding a string of terrorism attacks against Americans, including the 1983 suicide bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut that killed 241, has had numerous contacts with bin Laden since 1994, including face-to-face contact in the Sudan at an Islamic conference. This, according to Western and Mideast intelligence sources. A founding member of Lebanese Hezbollah, Mugniyeh is believed living in Iran.

U.S. officials remain convinced that bin Laden was behind Tuesday's attack but believe the day's mega-terrorism marked the debut of a new, larger and more dangerous organization, a group with many heads and many faces.

Mike Boettcher, CNN, Atlanta.


MCEDWARDS: Well, he had seen the pictures on TV, just like the rest of the world. He heard details, reports from the mayor and the governor, as well. But George W. Bush, the Commander in Chief, got his first look at ground zero in New York City Friday.

John King reports.


JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A firsthand look at the worst of the devastation and the pep talk that included a promise to those pulling the dead from the rubble.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I can hear you. I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.

KING: After his emotional tour of New York, Mr. Bush was asked if he knew who was responsible.

BUSH: We know we got a suspect.

KING: But lead suspect, Osama bin Laden, is an elusive target. And aides say one of the president's greatest challenges is convincing an angry nation to be patient.

BUSH: This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way and at an hour of our choosing.

KING: Mr. Bush declared a national emergency and authorized the call up of the National Guard and reservists and Congress passed a resolution authorizing the president to use all necessary and appropriate force to retaliate. Senior officials say they do not rule out a first wave of military strikes in the near future.

But Mr. Bush is asking his national security team and other world leaders to develop a long-range plan. For example, sources tell CNN the president is asking the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Britain and other nations to do more to break up terrorist cells in their countries and asking Saudi Arabia and other moderate Arab nations to crackdown on bin Laden's financial supporters and to take a tougher line with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: In our response, we'll have to take into account not only the perpetrators but those who provide haven, support, inspiration, financial and other assets to the perpetrators. KING: Mr. Bush also led the nation in a day of prayer and remembrance with former presidents, the Cabinet and the Congress joining in.

BUSH. Grief and tragedy and hatred are only for a time. Goodness, remembrance and love have no end. And the Lord of life holds all who die and all who mourn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Consoling the nation is another role for a president at times of crisis and a father who knows the strains of the job well gave his son a supportive tap.

KING: Administration sources say weekend national security meetings will focus on options for responding. And senior officials tell CNN they enter those talks with one encouraging development. Pakistan, which borders Afghanistan, has now promised to fully cooperate in any U.S. operations.

John King, CNN, the White House.


CLANCY: As people around the world mourn those killed in the terror attacks, more light is being shed on the lives of the victims. Here's a look at some of those who are lost.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lost on United Flight 93 from Newark, headed to San Francisco: Mark Bingham, a rugby player and owner of a PR firm. He ran with the bulls this summer in Pamplona. Alan Beaven had taken a year's sabbatical from environment law. He was on his way to Bombay to work as a volunteer. Thomas Burnett was the COO of a medical research company. He reached his wife, Veena (ph), by cell phone. When she told him about the other three downed planes, Burnett (ph) vowed he and his fellow passengers would fight back against the hijackers. United Flight 93 crashed into a Pennsylvania field at 10:20 a.m. September 11th, 2001.


CLANCY: The victims of the terrorist attack came from many walks of life. Barbara Olson was a 45-year old lawyer and a conservative commentator on CNN. She was aboard the plane that targeted the Pentagon. Just before the attack, she made two telephone calls to her husband, U.S. Solicitor General, Theodore Olson.


THEODORE OLSON, SOLICITOR GENERAL, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think she must have been partially in shock from the fact that she was on a hijacked plane. She absorbed the information. We then both reassured one another this plane was still up in the air. This plane was still flying. And this was going to come out OK. I told her it's going to come out OK. She told me it was going to come out OK. She said I love you. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MCEDWARDS: Well, memorial services were held across the world Friday to remember all the victims. In the United States, an official day of prayer and remembrance brought people by the thousands to churches, synagogues, mosques and public squares.

President George W. Bush and former presidents George Bush Senior, Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were among those joined together in grief at a service at the National Cathedral in Washington. And on the West Coast, a wall, a flickering flame. And look at it now. As thousands gather in downtown Seattle, Washington to remember many in the city working for Boeing, maker of all four planes commandeered by the hijackers on Tuesday.

Now, inland to Las Vegas, where the city known for its glitz and neon mark the national day of prayer and remembrance by dimming lights on casinos. That happened at 10:45 Eastern time. And see (ph) it. We're going to have another news update later this hour. I want to go back over to Donna now. Now, though -- Donna.

KELLEY: All right. Colleen and Jim, thanks very much for the latest there.

As we carry on, as we told you, our first half hour now, we are going to concentrate on wanting to hear your story.

And our first caller this evening, from California and Terry (ph). Terry, hi.

TERRY: Hello.

KELLEY: Go right ahead. You're on the air.

TERRY: Oh, I just wanted to say that my heart goes out to all of the people in New York. I just -- I mean, there's no words that can explain how I'm feeling. It's -- like I said, there's just no words. It's very hard. I'm an American citizen but I'm Muslim. And I feel the tragedy double because -- I mean, you know, my child, myself, all the safety. I had a -- I had a sense of security here, and now I'm afraid.

KELLEY: I was going to ask you are you afraid and how old is your child and have you had anybody say anything or do anything threatening to you?

TERRY: No. Everything's been really good here. You know, I thank God for that. Everything's been really, really good here. Nobody has said anything out of the ordinary. It's just the fear that it may happen. And I think that's what scares me most because you can't -- you don't know what to expect. You're always looking over your shoulder. And my son's four. He doesn't really know anything. So -- I mean, I'm happy about that because I can shield him.

KELLEY: And there is a hotline that folks who would like to call if there are problems. And we'll try and get that for you and have that sometime during the program, as well.

Let's go on to William, who is in California. William? William, are you there?

WILLIAM: Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?

KELLEY: You bet. You're on the air. Go right ahead.

WILLIAM: OK. Thank you. I'll make it brief. I know a lot of people want to talk. So I just wanted to say that out on Beach Boulevard here in Huntington Beach, there are so many people out right now with flags and candles. And every single car on both sides of the street that are going by are honking their horns. And it's just a tremendous sight. And I rode my bike down there to check it out and I didn't want to leave. It's amazing, actually.

KELLEY: I give a thumbs up and wave to a few folks here in the Atlanta area too as I was driving in. There were folks with candles and flags, waving those on some of the street corners, as well, past a church that was doing 24 hours, they were open for people to come in and have some prayers and this church had communion and prayers, as well.

People around the United States, in fact, around the world, certainly memorializing a lot of the folks. You know, we still don't even have all the final numbers of the victims. We want to know certainly as we carry on, though, how the news of the terror attack is affecting you.

And we do have another call. I'm sorry. David from where?


KELLEY: Hi, David. You're on the air.

DAVID: Hi. I'm from Orlando, Florida. I'd just like to give a prayer out. Of course, my prayers go out to all the firefighters and all the medical personnel assisting in the rescue mission to get our survivors out of there if there are any. But I also want to give a prayer out all, to our Arab Americans who have taken up root in this country. I just don't want the same mistake those made a half a century ago when Pearl Harbor was hit and we wrongfully imprisoned Japanese Americans. I hear a lot of violent acts being taken upon our American Arab friends here in America. I just don't want to reduce ourselves to the same atrocities that these terrorists has inflicted to us.

KELLEY: David, in Orlando. Thanks very much for the call.

And speaking of the rescue workers, I saw earlier that the USNS Comfort is in the New York harbor now. That is the Navy hospital ship. And that'll be a rest area for relief workers. They have about 1,000 beds. They can get a shower. They can get some food, get a little bit of a break there on that Navy hospital ship, the USNS Comfort. Let's go to our Jodi Ross. She is in New York. Let me give you the phone number once again if you're trying to call in, just as a refresher. We gave you it a few minutes ago but let's do that once again. 1-404-221-1855. And let's go to Jodi Ross. She is at the armory where teams are trying to help families find their loved ones. And we have seen broken hearted people for days now -- Jodi.

JODI ROSS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's true, Donna. That doesn't seem to end. And, you know, Friday was a day of prayer and remembrance. And since it's just a little bit after midnight, that feeling still prevails here. People are praying and they're remembering. And one more thing. They're hoping, hoping that even as we slowly move into day four since the terrorist attacks that they will find their loved ones.

I'm sitting here with Eddie and Anthony, missing a father and father-in-law respectively. Right? Tell me the last time you saw Anthony.

ANTHONY: Tuesday.

ROSS: He worked in the World Trade Center.

ANTHONY: He worked at the World Trade Center, building two, on 101st floor. And we heard from him about five to nine and then at nine o'clock, he called like three times. He witnessed what took place in building one. While my mom was on the phone with him, she said please, Tony, you know, leave the building, get out of there, you know. And he's like, it's OK.

People are jumping out of the windows. He was crying hysterically. He's like I'm OK. I'm OK. She begged him to leave. But knowing him, he probably stuck around. Someone could have fell. Someone could have panicked. He's the kind of guy that would help anybody.

ANTHONY: Right. He would have stayed to help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He would have definitely stayed to help. But then, I'm sure that once they got out of there, you know, he would have got down. He had enough time. We're hoping he made it down to the basement.

ROSS: Anthony, you mentioned too that he was there in 1993 for the first bombing on the World Trade Center. Right?

ANTHONY: Yeah. Me and my father was there in '93. And we both survived it. And I called my mother and let her know that we were all right. And we're just helping out, volunteers, Red Cross, everything.

ROSS: Are you shocked now, though, that you're back in a situation where again, it's the World Trade Center and you can't locate him?

ANTHONY: It's very shocking. I just -- hopefully, he did get out. Back then, in '93, it was -- it was tough. And we never thought that this would happen again at all.

ROSS: Anthony, I asked you before if you were losing hope because, you know, we're many days now past the day of the attacks. But you don't seem to be losing any.

ANTHONY: We can't lose hope. You run out of tears. You cry one minute. The next minute you hear a good story. It brings your hope up a little bit. And knowing that my brother-in-law and my father-in- law know that building well, there's a very good chance that they're down there. We've checked every number there is to check, the armory just now, a half hour ago, whatever it was. We've been to every hospital. We've called every number dozens of times. We had six phones going at the same time for a good 15 hours straight. We've done everything and some. And -- I mean, you can never do enough. But we're not giving up.

ROSS: But you still believe?

ANTHONY: We believe.

ROSS: You guys, good luck. Thank you for talking to us. We appreciate it.

What are the chances of finding these people? Who knows what's the ratio of actually finding them? Who knows? But these people don't care. They're praying and they believe in miracles. And they're hoping that in the next few days, they'll see one.

Donna, back to you.

KELLEY: Jodi Ross, there in New York at the armory. Thanks very much.

And sometimes, that's all they can cling to is the hope and the prayers and hoping for a miracle. Let me give you that number I was talking about earlier. It's the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights from one of our former callers just a couple of minutes ago. It's for Arab and Muslim Americans to report threats and vandalism and attacks. And it's a hotline for filing complaints. You see it there on your screen and I'll read it to you, as well, if you're just listening. 800-552- 6843. Once again it's 800-552-6843. I had it in my notes but had to find it for you.

Our next caller, Natasha (ph), from Wisconsin. Go ahead, please.

NATASHA (ph): Yes, ma'am. I'm just calling to, sort of, make a plea and to ask that now is the time for the American people to stand together, which I think a lot of us do realize. However, in some of the cities that I live around, there are just people making nonsense bomb threats to area malls. And, you know, the world, we're under enough fear right now. We don't need all the extra nonsense to be carried forth from this point. And it's a time for all of us -- in spite of race, nationality, color, religion, it's a time for us to all pull together and stand together and support the United States of America as those that are doing such a tremendous job in New York and in Washington are doing for us. KELLEY: All right. Natasha (ph), from Wisconsin. Thanks very much.

And Linda, from Illinois, you're next on the air with us tonight. Go ahead, please. Linda, are you there?


KELLEY: Go right ahead, please.

LINDA: Yes, I am. I just wanted to tell everyone in New York and Washington how terrible and how upset we are that this has happened to them. We're not that far from Chicago and I was borne and raised in Chicago and I know how that would feel if I was up there. And we still have a lot of family up there.

But I wanted to let the president and all these people know that we are behind them. And I also wanted to tell them that I'm a grandmother and I'm going to be grandmother in a week-and-a-half with my fourth grandchild. And I just want the president to know that please let this be taken care of, because I want to live and I want my grandchildren to live in a country that has always been so wonderful and so free.

KELLEY: Linda, from Illinois. Thanks very much for your call.

Let's go the Gary Tuchman. As we've been telling you, Gary Tuchman was able to get into ground zero. He has seen it from a perspective that few of us have and how shocking it is. Gary, what have you seen and what are you doing tonight?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donna, the first thing that I still just can't get over is the fact that the World Trade Center complex is not standing 110 stories behind me. I mean, it's an incredible landmark of New York City.

Any of you have been here and seen it and any of you who haven't been here have also seen it on television and on postcards and in magazines. And you would come down this street that I'm standing on right now, Glynnis (ph) Street and you would see those towers there. And you would just got very used to it, it's just incredible that it isn't there. I mean, when this week began, those two towers towered over New York City and everyone was having a good time in the city, relatively innocent. And all of a sudden, this city has completely changed.

On Wednesday, the day after this happened, a paramedic took me to ground zero. She wanted me to see it. She didn't feel that people throughout the world really knew how bad the damage was. And you know what? She's just absolutely right because despite the fact that I had been here the day before reporting from four blocks away, until you get there, you can't imagine what it looks like. The rubble looks like a mountain range. And the mountain range, at some point, is 75 feet tall and it still is, despite the fact that they've taken 10,000 tons of the rubble to a landfill nearby. And that, I found, completely incredible. What I also found incredible was that about a 10 block by 10 block range, you have damage all over the place. You have debris. You have rubble. You have at least 150 or 200 businesses that have been destroyed or damaged. And right now, officials are telling us that they estimate about 20 percent of the buildings here in lower Manhattan are damaged.

The final thing I want to tell you what really struck me and what will stick with me forever, there was a Brooks Brothers store right across from the World Trade Center. That is now being used as the temporary morgue. And we went in there and saw it.

Donna, back to you.

KELLEY: Hey, Gary, tell us a little bit more if you know some more information this evening about some of the other surrounding buildings because there was worry about those collapsing or being structurally damaged. And so, that could be a problem, as well, too. What do we know about that tonight?

TUCHMAN: The emergency officials are very concerned about those other buildings. There are three buildings that are said to have some structural deficiencies. And officials said they were possibly in danger of collapse. But today, the mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani, stressed that they are not in danger of imminent collapse and people should not be overly concerned about those buildings at this time. So that's the word from the mayor.

KELLEY: What about food and water there for the volunteers and the folks who are getting so tired and then, who we read about who are working without gloves and have bloody hands and who are in there just doing the best they can until they can't take it anymore, when we read about some of those rescue workers who have to just sit down and they're collapsed emotionally and physically?

TUCHMAN: I think right now, as the days have gone by, the emotional problems are bigger because people are realizing for the last two days, they have not found one survivor. That is very disappointing. But in the last couple of days, physically it's gotten easier. More equipment has come. More material has come. People have their gloves. People are wearing masks. Which you really need -- when I'm not talking to you on the air, I'm wearing the mask because it's very smelly here from the smoke.

And you can see right now, that smoke has been like that since this began three-and-a-half days ago. So when you're this close, you really need to wear those masks most of the time. And especially when you're at ground zero, you really have to wear the mask. And pretty much all the people on the site now are wearing those masks.

KELLEY: And some of those particles too. Gary Tuchman there at the scene. Thanks very much for bringing us up to date and we'll be checking back in with you, I'm sure.

As we carry on, our next caller is Charles from Mississippi. Hi, Charles. CHARLES: Hi. How are you?

KELLEY: Good. Hope you're the same. Tell us what you're thinking.

CHARLES: Well, I'm thinking our prayers are really going out with the people that are out there working. And this is for everybody in Mississippi. We're having big blood donations and we're sending a lot of equipment up there to New York to help them. And also, our prayers go out to all the victims, families and all their children, that we know they will be missed and also to our president who we love that has done such a good job of trying to pull this nation together, which I think has been pulled together pretty good because I've never seen so many flags and "God We Trust" all over the signs here in Mississippi.

KELLEY: Can you get a flag, Charles? It's tough to find a flag here in Atlanta, I'll tell you that. We saw some numbers from Wal- Mart and Kmart earlier today, that 300,000 and 200,000 flags have been sold. I had to settle for a balloon because I had actually had a damaged flag before. And, of course, you don't want to fly a damaged flag if you can help it. And so, I was trying to find a new one. And I'm telling you, it's tough to find one.

CHARLES: Yes, it's tough to find the flags. And now, the flower shops too have gone out and made red, white and blue ribbons for people to wear and give a dollar donation. And they're sending it to New York to the people that need that.

KELLEY: Yeah. And I got a flag balloon. If you can just find something...


KELLEY: ... red, white and blue to fly then.

CHARLES: And I'd like to say to President Bush that we love him. We think that he is really, him and the mayor of New York has done such a good job and the governor. And the people in Washington has done such a good job. We know that this will be handled in a way that it will not hurt us Americans and that I have seen that America...

KELLEY: What do you think that would be, Charles, though, handled in a way that would not hurt America? How would that be?

CHARLES: I believe that the president is going to go in there and bring them out and bring them back to America for justice.

KELLEY: All right.

CHARLES: I really believe.

KELLEY: We thank you for your call. Thank you for your call.

Robin, in Texas, would you go ahead, please?

ROBIN: Yes. I have written a poem for all the rescue workers there in New York and Washington.

KELLEY: Go right ahead.

ROBIN: It's called "For Those Who Serve."

We can't begin to imagine the brotherhood that exists between those who serve us when disasters strike and resist. We are usually caught unaware, though they all rush in to assist when common sense usually tells us to retreat, give up and to quit. They don't think of themselves as heroes. They are only doing their job, though no one could convince me they are not guided by the hand of God.

KELLEY: As you watch the rescuers, you were obviously moved, Robin, to write that. And that's lovely. So many people have been moved. Is there something that you felt -- so many people have been moved to try and do something. And you've written a poem. What about some of your neighbors? I talked to some of my neighbors and they were having trouble sleeping, waking up. And everybody was so shocked and shook up about it. How about you?

ROBIN: Well, I've had trouble sleeping myself. Everyone I know has been saying prayers, either if they haven't -- well, they've all been praying. And unfortunately, I'm unable to give blood. I have friends who are unable to give blood through various illnesses and so forth. And we are all doing whatever we can in whatever way, whether it be praying, giving blood, just hoping for the best, that survivors are found and are totally behind everything that's going on right now.

KELLEY: Robin, from Texas. Thank you for sharing what you wrote with us. We really appreciate.

Ron, in California. You are next on the air with us. Go ahead.

RON: Yes. I'm calling because I'm very thankful for the services that they had today. And I was deeply moved by Reverend Graham's words and more importantly how this has awakened America's renewal for spiritual necessity to draw unto God, to pray unto God, regardless of your faith but to really have a faith and believe in something. And love is the foundation for a family and relationship. And how we relate to what is happening today in our world has brought a lot of fear and terror, and terror being that it's evil.

The ultimate evil has caused us to really think about life and how -- what it is and -- or who we are related to and how much we love them and what we want to do with our love for those people.

But I really think about what Doctor Graham said and I -- it struck me that only God could have loved these people more that we have lost through this terror, through this evil act, that only God that took their lives through this terror could only have loved them more, that through this, that the United States of America, that the world, the civilization across the world who has heard these words would really listen to what the Taliban is saying, that it's proclaiming a holy war.

And I agree. It is a holy war because we will come together. We will unite with our prayers, not just today but every day and throughout as we lead our troops into war, as we pray for those brave souls that are out there rescuing the damaged...

KELLEY: Reverend Billy Graham was, of course, at the National Cathedral today at that prayer service and remembrance. He talked about under the debris that there's a foundation that was not destroyed. And he also talked about -- from some of my notes because I was here at CNN and then went home for a little break and came back, but I took some notes there -- and he said we have a choice to implode like the buildings with our emotions and as a nation, or we can become stronger -- we can rebuild on a strong foundation. And he said rather than having the evil separate and divide us, it has done the opposite. It has actually united us.

So Ron from California, thanks very much for your call. And let's go on to Susan in Pennsylvania. Hi, Susan.


KELLEY: Go right ahead. You're on the air.

SUSAN: I just wanted to let the people know in New York, which is where I originally come from, that I'm very proud of the way they are handling this. My heart and -- my heart and my tears go out to the families of the people that have suffered through this tragedy.

I also want to let President Bush know that we are behind him no matter he wants to do. And he's brought us together not only as United States, but also spiritually which was something that was long overdue. I really think he's done a fantastic job.

KELLEY: Ron was talking about a holy war that might need to be waged. Does that worry you when you say that he should do whatever he needs to do?

SUSAN: No, no. It doesn't worry me because America's a strong place and we will be able to handle anything that we have to. And I just think that sometimes even though you don't want to go to war, it's something that might have to be done to rid us of these evil people that are out there that instead of just having differences of opinion feel that they have to hurt innocent people in order to do that. And it's just wrong. I want my kids to grow up to be able to feel that they don't have to worry where they're going because some place is going to be bombed.

KELLEY: You know, talking about your kids, Susan, tell us how old they are because coming up in our last half-hour of this two-hour program that we're doing, we're going to talk with a child psychologist who's going to help us get through that with children and to tell us what we should do to help children. What have you done with your children and how old are they?

SUSAN: I have an older that's 19 and I also have a 12-year-old. And ...

KELLEY: Are they upset? SUSAN: Yes. My daughter is -- we're taking collections for the families of the firefighters that are not found yet. And I have a business and I'm talking collections with that. And she's very, very much into doing that and helping out as best she can.

My younger daughter -- she watches TV with me and I try to make her understand that, you know, there are people that shouldn't be here in this world that do these horrible things. But, you know, you can't pin it on any one race. It's the evil people alone and not the race.

KELLEY: All right. Susan from Pennsylvania, hope you can stick around with us here on CNN because as I was telling you, we do have that child psychologist who is going to be joining us.

Coming up as the initial shock subsides -- and shock is certainly not a strong enough word sometimes -- and denial, but there are calls for retaliation -- for vengeance. And they grow louder among some folks. U.S. President Bush has made it clear that Washington draws no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them. Both could find themselves as America's targets.

And Mr. Bush has declared a state of national emergency authorizing the Defense Department to call up as many as 50,000 military reservists, the National Guard. And then late Thursday evening, the U.S. House voted 420 to one to let President Bush exercise what it terms "all necessary and appropriate force" against those responsible for the attacks.

But are you concerned that the United States -- the United States might strike back before it has all the facts? Is a military campaign the best approach? And is the nation justified to maybe assassinate what it considers terrorist leaders? We want to know what you think about how America should respond. You can call us in the United States at 1-404-221-1855.

Let's bring in General Wesley Clark. He is a former NATO commander and CNN's military consultant for us. General Clark, nice to have you join us. Thanks very much.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO ALLIED COMMANDER: Thank you, Donna. It's nice to be here.

KELLEY: Does the United States have to retaliate? Is there no other choice?

CLARK: Well, I know we're angry, but I wouldn't call it retaliation. We've got to do something about the threat...

KELLEY: What would you call it, then?

CLARK: ... that faces us.

KELLEY: A response?

CLARK: Well, I -- it's a war that's been forced on the United States. Let's call it a response. We have the moral high ground. A terrible thing was done to us. We can't sit back and wait for the next blow to fall on the United States. So we've really got two near- term battles and a long-term campaign.

Near-term battle number one is to protect the United States as best we can. And we're doing that with the FBI and we're looking for these terrorist cells. And we're strengthening our air traffic control procedures and all of the other things that we're doing to protect ourselves at home. That's battle number one, and we've got to win it.

Battle number two is if we can do something right away to these terrorist networks overseas -- if we can strike at them in some way that throws them off balance, that tears up their plans, that makes them lose their command and control and respond to us and gives us more breathing room, then we should do that.

KELLEY: That was tried in the attack on the Sudan, but I want to -- I want to go ahead and we're going to go to Jim Clancy and Colleen McEdwards. And we're going to continue our conversation with you, General Clark, but let's get the latest developments here as we carry on with our special programming -- Jim and Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: OK, Donna, thanks very much. We're just getting the latest developments here for you. We've got a look right now.

CLANCY: Yes, searchers...

MCEDWARDS: Do you want to start us off, Jim?

CLANCY: Searchers have found the cockpit voice recorder from that hijacked plane that crash-landed in Pennsylvania.

MCEDWARDS: That's right. And Congress has passed a joint use of force resolution authorizing President Bush to use the military to go after terrorists and those who harbor them, as well.

CLANCY: And authorities say that they have made their first arrest in the investigation of those attacks -- a person who was picked up as a material witness.

MCEDWARDS: Well, as authorities continue the investigation into the attacks, Washington is also planning what officials are calling "an appropriate response to strike back at terrorism." Experts say that response will likely have more than one dimension to it.


COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The enemy is in many places. The enemy is not looking to be found. The enemy is hidden. The enemy is very often right here within our own country. And so you have to design a campaign plan that goes after that kind of enemy. And it isn't always blunt force military, although that is certainly an option. It may well be that diplomatic efforts, political efforts, legal, financial, other efforts may be just as effective against that kind of an enemy as would military force.


CLANCY: Congress has already passed a joint resolution authorizing the President to use force against those responsible for the attacks.

Now, to augment the armed forces, the President has authorized the Defense Department to call up reservists. Mr. Bush has given the go-ahead for 50,000 National Guardsmen and reservists to assist with so-called "homeland defense plans." Administration officials say the primary role of these troops would be to join recovery and domestic security efforts.

And meanwhile, just a short while ago, the House passed a bill authorizing the use of force against those responsible for Tuesday's attacks. The measure swept through 420 votes to one. The Senate had unanimously approved the resolution. Jonathan Karl has more on that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On this question, 98 Senators have voted in the affirmative, no Senator has voted in the negative.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Without dissent and without public debate, the Senate authorized the president to use all necessary force against all those tied to the attacks.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS CHAIRMAN: For constitutional purposes, this is the same as a declaration of war. There is no constitutional difference between authorizing the President to use this kind of force and saying, "We declare war."

KARL: The hurried vote united conservatives and liberals who usually disagree about military intervention. Paul Wellstone, who's first significant vote as a Senator a decade ago was against the use of force against Iraq in the Persian Gulf War, was one of the few to speak before the vote.

SEN. PAUL WELLSTONE (D), MINNESOTA: It's going to be a long, difficult struggle, but I believe people in our country and people in Minnesota are united in this. But we need to do this the smart way.

KARL: Despite the lack of debate, members of both parties had privately objected to a White House request for a more open-ended authorization of force against terrorists. As a result, the resolution passed authorizes the president to use military action specifically "against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons."

BIDEN: It relates to the incident, and there's broad authority related to the incident. It does not relate to all terrorism every place.

KARL: Several key leaders hoped to avoid a repeat of the 1964 Tonkin Gulf resolution in which Congress, after North Vietnam allegedly attacked U.S. warships, almost unanimously granted President Johnson the authority "to take all necessary measures to prevent further aggression by North Vietnam." Many in Congress came to regret that as the Vietnam War escalated and grew increasingly unpopular.

While only Congress has the power to declare war, the President, under the Constitution, has the power to repel invasion. And if a war drags on, Congress, with its power of the purse, can ultimately bring an end to it by refusing to pay for it.

Jonathan Karl, CNN Capitol Hill.


CLANCY: A public opinion survey now suggests Americans overwhelmingly feel that the U.S. should take tough military action. In a CNN and Time poll, 62 percent of those polled said they feel Congress should declare war on those responsible for Tuesday's atrocities; 27 percent were opposed. The opinion poll's sampling error is plus or minus three percent.

MCEDWARDS: Well, since the attacks, searchers have been working around the clock to try to find those who might have survived. In New York City, nobody has been pulled alive from the wreckage in two days now. The official number of missing in the attacks on the World Trade Center stands at 4,717 at this point. For their families, as you can imagine, the wait for word on loved ones is agonizing.


GWYN ADAMS: I'd like to know if he's dead that he didn't hurt and that they didn't suffer -- any of them in there. And just -- we want to be able to bury him and have the closure to do that.


MCEDWARDS: But, you know, Americans came together in communities large and small to remember those who were lost and to support each other, as well, in this time of mourning.

CNN's Bruce Morton has that.


BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Church services everywhere. America's leadership was in Washington's National Cathedral, but services everywhere. Cleveland, Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We mourn for the many lives lost in a tragedy that remains etched in our minds forever.

MORTON: Boston, Massachusetts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look with compassion on the whole human family and especially on those who lost their lives this week.

MORTON: At the Pentagon, where many lost fellow workers and friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May God comfort all of you that are in loss today and may we wait on Him and renew our strength.

MORTON: Manchester, New Hampshire.

An Islamic service in Sterling, Virginia near Dulles Airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people accuse you of being terrorists, this is because this what -- this is what they were told.

MORTON: Austin, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vanish the violence that has been in our midst and the evil that exists around us.

MORTON: Back at Washington's National Cathedral, the Commander- in-Chief.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way and at an hour of our choosing.

MORTON: That service ended with a hymn -- a battle hymn.

Bruce Morton, CNN Washington.


CLANCY: Colleen and I will be back with a news update at the top of the hour. But now, back to Donna and more of your phone calls.

KELLEY: All right, Jim and Colleen. Thanks very much.

And we took a pause in our conversation with General Wesley Clark. General Clark is a former NATO commander, as you might remember, and CNN military consultant currently with us.

General Clark, you heard the CNN/"TIME" poll said a majority overwhelmingly want to see some tough military action. We were just talking about that before we took a pause to get up to date with the news. But how? You were talking about command and control and I brought up that they tried to do that in the Sudan. How do you go in and make it effective without letting things spiral out of control?

CLARK: Got to be smart, got to have good information. We're developing those targets now. I'm very confident. We've done a lot of work inside the U.S. Armed Forces and the intelligence community on Osama bin Laden since 1998. We know a whole lot more now than we did then. And when we strike -- if we strike, if we find an effective way to strike, I'm confident it will be a pinpoint strike that has real impact.

Now, one of the other things we learned, though, in that episode in 1998 is you've got to make sure the moderate Arab governments and our allies around the world understand what we're doing because, as Secretary...

KELLEY: And support...

CLARK: And support...

KELLEY: and have worldwide support.

CLARK: As Secretary Powell said, this is a multidimensional effort. You have to have diplomatic support. You have to have legal support. You have to have economic support. And ultimately, these terrorists are going to be crushed by domestic pressures in each of the countries that cut off their support. And that's what we want to encourage.

KELLEY: You mentioned Osama bin Laden. He's not the only one that people would probably classify...

CLARK: That's right.

KELLEY: ... even through the intelligence community, as a terrorist. Do we have any idea worldwide the number of cells, the number of networks of terrorists at all?

CLARK: Well, we know there's an interlocking network, and Osama bin Laden is one among several. He's in many cases considered the chief financial backer and perhaps the overall coordinator. He may or may not have been the lead planner in this operation.

KELLEY: Yeah, and that...

CLARK: But there are more than two dozen countries in which there are cells. There are any number of cells in these countries. And maybe 50,000 people or more have gone through various Islamic -- militant Islamic training centers.

KELLEY: Fifty thousand?

CLARK: Maybe that many. They fought in Afghanistan. They fought in various places during the operations in the Balkans. There were some who came into Bosnia. Some married. Some were still there in Bosnia. We knew when we were trying to work in Kosovo that there were continued charges of radical Islamic fighters in Kosovo. We couldn't find much evidence of that, but they're in many different places in many cells around the world.

KELLEY: You trained leaders and soldiers for five years. A lot of them went to Desert Storm. Is the United States trained to fight a war against terrorists?

CLARK: We've got the best armed forces in the world. It's not just an armed forces action, though. Primarily it's a police action...

KELLEY: An intelligence...

CLARK: An intelligence action first. We've got great special operations forces if we have to go in and do something precise. We've got high technology, the most highly trained and disciplined greatest soldiers and airmen involved that anybody has in the world. And we've got large conventional forces to back it up.

KELLEY: Evelyn is on the phone with us from California. Thank you for hanging on, Evelyn. Go ahead.

EVELYN: Yeah, I was just calling in response to your question on whether or not you feel the U.S. should retaliate. And feel that most of the United States, as much as we fear retaliation and what that might do to us, that we feel as a nation that we need to retaliate...

KELLEY: There is that thought -- right, that we must -- that the United States must retaliate or it would look weak, but then there are those who worry that it could spiral out of control -- that it will get into this endless cycle of violence. What do you think about that, General Clark?

CLARK: We have to keep in mind the long-term objective. The long-term objective is to go after the terrorist networks, to deprive them of support, to eliminate these individuals one way or another. Ideally bring them justice, put them on trial, convict them of their crimes, and take whatever measures justice. If they resist arrest or detention, then we'll use other means on them. But the idea is to focus on the long-term and then take the steps necessary, one by one, to get there.

What we want to do is be as precise as possible so we get at the threat. What we don't want to do is turn this campaign into something it doesn't have to be. This is not World War II. We don't have an enemy nation...

KELLEY: Could it come to that though? Could it come to that if -- or is the support so widespread for the United States even now at this beginning that the support would be great enough that it could be taken care of in a fairly rapid fashion?

CLARK: We have the moral high ground. Our actions have to reinforce our morality, our compliance with international law, and our superior intelligence.

KELLEY: Don't you think a lot of folks worry about if it could get into a protracted battle and if it could go on and on if we were to get into a battle?

CLARK: Well, I think people are very concerned about this. And it's a strange feeling in the American public. I've had a lot of people say, "We must retaliate." But then right after that, they say, "But we're worried about what happens next."

And I think what we have to recognize is to win -- and we have to win this because our nation and our way of life are at stake -- we have to succeed. But to succeed, we have to do it in a smart fashion and we have to think of the long-term. And we have to prepare ourselves for a campaign -- not a single strike, not two strikes, but something that is going to last months and perhaps years to defeat this if we do this the right way.

KELLEY: Much of the same that I hear on those two points, too -- must retaliate, but worried, as well.

Jim, you're on the phone from Texas with us. Go ahead, please.

JIM: Hello?

KELLEY: Hi, go right ahead.

JIM: Hi. How are you?

KELLEY: Good. Thanks...

JIM: I'm -- I'd like to address a point that you made just a minute ago about the on and on thing that's going -- you know, people are worried about the violence that could continue on and on. That's something that's been going on for a long time anyway. We've always been under the threat of this and even though the public doesn't hear about it, there's a lot of attacks that have been thwarted that people just don't hear about. And so the battle's been going on and on anyway. And people are concerned about that continuing on if we retaliate. Well, that's going to happen anyway.

KELLEY: All right.

JIM: Even if we don't retaliate, it's still going to continue on and on. And so we have to...

CLARK: Jim, I think you're exactly right on that. I just don't label it retaliation; I label it part of another campaign.

But I think we also have to recognize that even though we -- this attack -- this wave of attacks seem to be over, we fully expect that there are other efforts under way or being planned against us, so we have to move forward and take action to disrupt this.

KELLEY: But a word you've mentioned over and over -- have to do it smartly.

CLARK: Exactly.

KELLEY: Let's bring in our Major Garrett. He is at the White House, and he is privy to some of the information that's coming out of there certainly and what they're trying to look at and put plans together -- Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donna, as you've been discussing, the president is reviewing all available options. As the Secretary of State has pointed out, this is multidimensional. Military is certainly at the top of the list of the various options the President and his national security team are exploring.

But there's also diplomatic economic means of trying to tighten the noose around terrorist cells around the world. All of those options are being discussed. The President will continue throughout the weekend to have intensive discussions with his national security team to look at all of these options. He is now armed, if you will, with the legislative will of the Congress to prosecute a war against those responsible for the abominable terrorist acts on September 11 -- armed with that and the very strong unified will of the American people and the unity expressed across the globe.

The President is well positioned to prosecute this war. And as General Clark pointed out, we have the moral high ground -- the moral authority to carry out this war. It will be protracted in many respects, experts believe, and also, as the Secretary of State outlined, multidimensional.

So it's not just about a military response. Be it very swift or down the road, military is clearly a component of that. But also diplomatic, economic means of isolating, tightening a noose and in some ways, whether it be swiftly or in a more protracted way, completely isolating to the point of nullity these terrorist cells.

KELLEY: Major Garrett at the White House, thanks very much. And of course that use of force resolution says, "All necessary and appropriate force."

What do you think is necessary and appropriate? What would you say and how long do you think it could be -- sooner rather than later before a response would come?

CLARK: Well, it will depend on a lot of information that really isn't available to us in the public. But we do think that we have a very active target development process and we need to use the right force to disrupt his operations. Whether that's an insertion of a raid, whether it's cruise missiles or long-range air, or whether it's the police cracking down on a terrorist cell in some city overseas, those are -- we need a grand campaign plan that puts that first response.

But we don't have time to spare. We need to be moving just as we are.

KELLEY: What do you mean by that? Why don't we have time to spare? Because they're on move?

CLARK: Because an organization -- that's right. And an organization that's this effective and this complex has more than one play in its -- in its play book. And there's something else that's being rehearsed or prepared or maybe staged to go against us now. So we want to take as rapid action as possible, but we want to be effective and we want to have the support of our allies.

And I think what the Congressional resolution does is authorize the President to do precisely that without tying his hands. So whether it's with high-performance aircraft or cruise missiles or our soldiers or policemen in another country that we have to support -- whatever it is, that's what we've got the authorization to do right now.

KELLEY: Ground campaign with this in your opinion?

CLARK: Well, perhaps eventually, but I don't see a ground campaign. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there's no country. We're not invading a country here, and there's been a lot of talk about Afghanistan, but frankly, no one has wanted to invade Afghanistan and hold it for any reasons other than what we saw the Russians try to do in the 1980s. They weren't very successful. We probably could be, but why do we want to be? That's their own country. What we want to do is get rid of the terrorist network.

KELLEY: And high holy leader said that Osama bin Laden would not have been able to do this, couldn't train there, he's already moved, and some of the aid workers are pulling out now. And some concern for a lot of folks and a lot of innocent people face starvation and attacks and the people who had money could get out, but others are stuck there.

Let's go on to David -- is that right -- David in Chicago? Thank you. Hi, David. You're on the air.

DAVID: Hello, how are you doing?

KELLEY: Good. Hope you're the same.

CLARK: Hi, David.

DAVID: Thank you for taking my call.

KELLEY: You bet.

DAVID: I basically -- I do believe the U.S. must and should retaliate especially the way General Clark just explained it. It has to be targeted, strategic. It can't be just one big thing going sending tons of troops down to Afghanistan trying to take over the country or different places trying to hunt the main person down.

And then -- because that way you're going to get a lot of innocent people that maybe are good people -- they're just poor. They're under the influence of the -- not the dictatorship, but, you know, the people are running Afghanistan right now.

CLARK: The Taliban.

KELLEY: Taliban -- that's right.

What about that, General Clark?

CLARK: Oh, I think that's right. I mean...

KELLEY: Is Afghanistan looked at at this point as sticking out? Pakistan said it wanted to think about the options -- about, you know the United States going to General Musharraf and taking a look at this and saying, "OK, what's your cooperation factor here?" As I heard earlier this evening, Pakistan has decided that it will cooperate with the United States...

CLARK: I just...

KELLEY: But does this mean...

CLARK: Afghanistan hasn't yet because the Taliban are very dependent on the Mujahedeen that came there during the war against the Russians and are still there in large Arab -- a large community of Arab fighters and fighting their own civil war. But perhaps the Taliban needs to recalculate because...

KELLEY: How likely are they to do that?

CLARK: I don't know. It depends on what connections we make at...

KELLEY: ... because Osama bin Laden has been there apparently for a couple of years at least.

CLARK: He's been there and he's heavily supported. But also there are connections between Pakistan and the Taliban. And it's -- if General Musharraf really supports us the way he says he does, maybe he's going to pull connections.

My point would be, we really -- we're not interested in Afghanistan per se. We're interested in smashing a terrorist network. And it just so happens that we believe that part of that terrorist network or perhaps the hub of it may be located there. But it's not a matter of attacking airfields or factories or facilities; it's a matter of individuals. Those individuals need to be identified, tracked, detained, and turned over to the United States and the world community for justice. That's what the Taliban needs to do if they truly believe in God and the professions of morality which the -- which the mainstream of Islam does.

KELLEY: Could they face other pressure from other Middle Eastern countries? Could they make some headway in talking to the Taliban?

CLARK: Well, perhaps they could. And that's certainly one of the courses of action that I think General Powell has outlined -- out diplomatic approach.

KELLEY: Yeah, and at the State Department today before that national prayer service, there was quite a showing of support as they headed on buses to go and signing condolence books. And as I headed to that prayer service, one -- a couple of the diplomats that I saw on wire reports said that maybe the United States doesn't realize just how strong the worldwide support is at this point.

Let's go for a little perspective to our Garrick Utley. He's in New York. Hi, Garrick.

GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Donna. I think every conversation, particularly important conversations or emotional ones about our future such as this may have a place for a devil's advocate, so let me just raise a couple of points.

It's clear, as we all have been seeing, there is a great need and desire for some kind of action to be taken. A moment ago you showed the very interesting result of the CNN Time poll which shows that 62 percent say -- thought the Congress should declare war. Clearly understood the reasons for that.

But the next question on the poll, "Who should Congress declare war against?" Answer -- 61 percent saying, "We don't know." And I think therein this poll that was taken -- the CNN Time poll, we see the confusion, the uncertainty that lurks there sort of as a subtext along with this desire to take action.

And the other comment I would make is simply that this -- I think we all know that this word "war" has been diluted. We've got all kinds of war -- a war on drugs, a war on poverty, and now there's going to be a war on terrorism.

KELLEY: ... a new war.

UTLEY: A new war -- that's what they call it -- a new war.

Now, Donna, military action, I think, is going to be -- is going to be coming clearly. If we get lucky and if we're smart, as the General says, we're going to maybe send in some cruise missiles or other kinds of air strikes if we know where bin Laden is or his associates are.

But it's also going to be necessary, and we have to keep this in mind, to satisfy the public demand for action. And this puts our leader, the President of the United States, in a very difficult position. He only wants to act smartly when he knows he can accomplish something. At the same time, he has to satisfy what we saw today when he was visiting those rescue workers in New York chanting USA, USA, USA.

Well, something will certainly happen in the coming weeks or the coming months, but I suspect in the long run -- I'd like to hear the general's comments on this -- that what this may turn in -- out to be is very similar to the war on drugs. If you listen to what General Clark has been saying, the language he's been using which is very well spoken it's similar to the language that was used on the war on drugs for many years. "We've got to get in and get those networks. We're not fighting countries. We've got to get good intelligence information. We've got to get hold of their leaders."

From time to time, we succeed. A drug cartel kingpin like Pablo Escobar is removed from the scene. But the war on drugs goes on and on and on without a victory -- without a defeat. It just goes on, and I think the war on terrorism may be the same thing in the offing.

KELLEY: All right. Garrick Utley in New York, thanks very much. Is that right? Is that your feeling, too, General Clark...

CLARK: Well, I'm very worried...

KELLEY: ... that this will just go on and on and on?

CLARK: I'm very concerned about this. And that's why... KELLEY: Must we always watch out for terrorism? I mean we had to before, but even more now until the end of time?

CLARK: Well, I think there will always be those who somehow react against the United States or other leading powers who are driving the pace of modernization and economic development, technological powers in the world. Whether they will always resort to force and violence to murder our citizens, that's another matter. And I think that it very much depends on how we handle this campaign now.

Certainly, these people who did this are in embittered. They're very ideological and dogmatic. And we're not going to talk them out of what they're doing. So we have to isolate them, cut them off, bring them to justice or otherwise handle this situation. How we do this will determine whether others follow them.

And in that sense it's a little bit different than the war on drugs because the motivation is different and the consequences are different. This is so shocking. This is so horrifying what's happened in Washington and New York City that we clearly have the moral high ground. We have the ability to mobilize most of the leadership in the entire world to come to our aid to deal with these networks.

It's a very tough dilemma the president is in because Americans want rapid action. But it has to be effective action in view of our long-term objectives, not just a spasm of response to satisfy an irate American public. Goodness knows, we're all angry about this. But we've got to strike smart.

KELLEY: ... and I was just going to say the word you keep using is smart. And the president said this would be a monumental battle between good and evil, but that good would win out. And the President is under an enormous amount of pressure Major Garrett at the White House.

GARRETT: Let me tackle this from a couple of different angles. Picking up on Garrick's first point about the pressure he believes the president is under. Clearly, the White House feels it, senior advisers to the President feel it. But I commend to all of us the president's first statement from the oval office on that Tuesday night after he returned to the oval office from traveling around the country because of the very real security danger afflicting and focussed on Air Force One.

There were several drafts of that speech I have been told, many of them much tougher than the speech the president delivered, much, much tougher I have been told by some senior White House advisers. The president toned those remarks down. He did not want to strike an immediate tone of vengeance or blood lust from the oval office. What he wanted to try to do was send as calm and as reassuring signal as he could to the nation and to the rest of the world about the temperate and balanced approach he was going to take.

Any president under those circumstances would have felt the very real compulsion to talk in words of vengeance to sort of strike at that very real sense of outrage and horror all Americans felt. The president decided that he would do it a bit differently. And there was some internal second guessing the next day within the White House. Was he strong enough? Did he strike as strong a note as the American public needed they thought -- some thought the public needed to hear?

The president has no so second guessing about that statement. And he has gradually stepped up the rhetoric in consistent methodology we are told as the military apparatus, as the intelligence services gathered more information and the President has become more internally confident about his ability to deal with his situation in a timely and effective manner.

So I would only refer the nation to the president's own remarks. And you have seen him move in a direction steadily, but he resisted the temptation on that very first evening to be harsh and bellicose even though some of those very type words were laid before him as options, he rejected them.

And on Garrick's other point about the drug war, I can tell you this, the White House sees no analogy whatsoever. And in fact, has spoken about the drug was in different terms. This President has often even in the company of leaders from Peruvian countries who suffer much more gravely the real tragedies of the drug war than many American do, about the fault that lies in America on the demand side of this equation. So he's even spoken differently about the drug war.

But this is not analogous in any way at this Bush White House. The victims of the terrorism attacks on Tuesday were innocent American civilians who never once brought anything approaching the harm that fell upon them in their direction, as the president has often argued Americans do who take drugs. So they don't see any analogy whatsoever with the drug war or its protracted and in some cases endless struggle. They do believe and are becoming ever more confident that they can find those responsible for these acts of terrorism and bring about as the President has said justice.

KELLEY: Major Garrett, Major, thanks very much. Let's go to Jeremiah in Georgia on the phone with us, right now. Jeremiah.

JEREMIAH: ... the question if we should...

KELLEY: Jeremiah, could you start over for a minute? I missed the first part of what you were saying. Could you start over please?

JEREMIAH: Yeah. I was calling in for the question, should we retaliate or not? I believe we should because they were able to penetrate our security at the airport. And we were supposed to have strong security then. Who says they're not going to be stupid enough or gutsy enough to try it again in a different form? You know who says they're not going to bomb in a car or something. Wow. Crazy. Where do they come up with these ideas anyway? And what have we done wrong to them for them to kill thousands of our innocent citizens for no reason?

KELLEY: General Clark, there's been some talk you know wondering who the enemy is. And I saw some wire reports and some of our reporting talking about that they were worried now still that perhaps this isn't all over and done with. That they were worried about further terrorist attacks and maybe in different forms.

And we've had the first arrests I think you've known with the updates here too that we've been telling you about. One of the arrests, one of the people who was taken into custody I believe at one of the two New York airports on Thursday evening, I think it was JFK or La Guardia. Those were -- they took in like 10 or 12 people. And now they've had the first arrest. So what do you do to watch out, like Jeremiah says for what could be coming in the next wave?

CLARK: Well you have to go back and go through a security analysis of all of your vulnerable systems. The airports certainly, but also other things. Our utilities, our public services. There's much more horrifying scenarios that could be constructed than what happened. And we need to make sure those scenarios never happen. So that's the first battle we're waging right now in the United States. Now, we don't know if we're winning or not, but we've got to do our best.

KELLEY: Well, I saw too, the FBI was saying although this person did not pass the lie detector test, so they're saying that perhaps this is an accurate as they thought before. But there was a warning that maybe Boston, Atlanta, Richmond, Virginia might have also been targets during Tuesday's attacks.

So now they wonder because he didn't pass the lie detector test where they got some of this information, but they were talking about people are worried who work in sky scrapers. You know, they're nervous about that. And that gun sales are up. Particularly they're edgy in Boston where the first two planes had hit the World Trade Center towers hit.

CLARK: Well, I think it would be really surprising if he only had four teams, and three of the four teams took over and was successful in this case with these aircraft. So we don't know how many teams there really were and how many people were fleeing across the country trying to get away. Or waiting to try in a different manner.

KELLEY: I'm sorry, Rick, could you tell me who the next caller is -- once again, Laura, Arizona. Hi, Arizona, go right ahead.

LAURA: Hi. Yeah, my point is first of all I really hope President Bush understands that we will be patient enough for them to do the smart thing. And I don't think the question is if we should retaliate, I think it's going to be how we're going to retaliate because I believe, as a world we're trying to unite, to come together. This is the extortionist and we need -- any terrorist is just an extortionist.

We need to number one figure out how to take away their power, how to really to get to them as a world. We're all not going to put up with. If they want -- if some country wants to declare war, they need to declare war on us like we're saying. Who are we going to retaliate against? An individual? And so I think they're on the right track. They're going to do the right thing. And I think most Americans have complete confidence in our leaders and they're all seeming that they're going to get it right this time. And I'm confident.

KELLEY: Thank you very much for your call. Did you finish your thought? Were you able to finish your thought there?

LAURA: Oh, yes. But I think everyone so far they - I think our country is finally going to pull together like the General said and lead the world in showing how to get rid of terrorists once and for all. Because you let extortionist in they're going to keep doing it.

KELLEY: General Clark, what about that? You were involved as we said before. Five years you trained leaders and soldiers, and many of them went to Desert Storm. How is the patience factor? Laura mentioned that you know the United States, folks in the United States she feels a lot of them would be patient. What do you think? Is there patience?

CLARK: In the armed forces, it's great.

KELLEY: Right. How about the general public?

CLARK: The patience factor in the American public, well, I think we're going to go through a certain set of stages after this campaign. I mean first there was -- we're angry right now. And we're grieving right now. But I think as more of the facts come out, people will rally behind the president.

He's going to set the pace of this based on the information that's given to him, what our capabilities and what makes sense. And I think the American people will support it. I think we're a mature population. And I think we certainly can hold our horses until we do the right thing with this.

KELLEY: General Clark, we're glad to have you here with us in Atlanta our military consultant and former NATO Commander. Thank you very much.

CLARK: Thank you.

KELLEY: As we carry on here in news that we've bringing here. Now they have four of the black boxes that have been found. One from the plane that hit the Pentagon, and one from the plane that went down in Pennsylvania. Let's get the latest news for you with Jim Clancy and Colleen McEdwards. Jim and Colleen.

CLANCY: All right, Donna. Interesting discussion. We're going to now give you a bit of a profile of the man that's the leading suspect. And also give take you to a country that is certainly going to be a key player in all of this.

MCEDWARDS: That's right. We begin with Osama Bin Laden, the man that some Bush administration officials are calling the Prime Suspect has long been at the top of the U.S. list of major sponsors of terrorism. Andrea Koppel looks at what the U.S. response might be if Bin Laden were to be the target.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If, as the U.S. suggests Osama Bin Laden was the mastermind behind Tuesday's attacks, going after him and shutting down his al Qaeda terrorist network will require more than just a military assault on Afghanistan. That's because over the years al Qaeda has become an international network with cells rooted in almost every region of the world. That's why Secretary of State Colin Powell has put the world on notice. The United States needs help.

POWELL: I am not threatening so much as I am saying this has become a new benchmark, a new of measuring the relationship and what we can do together in the future.

KOPPEL: Since Tuesday, Powell has had the world on speed dial, in particular reaching out to countries where the U.S. says Islamic militant groups have links to Bin Laden's network.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once these people have been trained in Afghanistan, we know that they've gone to Africa, we know that they've gone to Asia. We know that they've gone back to the Middle East. And it's clear not that they've also come to the United States.

KOPPEL: People like Achmad Risam (ph) the man charged with attempting to bomb the United States over the millennium. He's a member of Algeria's armed Islamic group but was trained by Bin Laden. So were member's of Pakistan's Jurac Ul-Mujahaddin group which hijacked an Indian jet liner to Afghanistan in December of 1999.

On Friday, Pakistan's President informed the U.S. his country is prepared to take specific steps to help the U.S. wage it's campaign against Bin Laden. And in the Arab world, Powell has asked countries like Saudi Arabia to cut off the flow of money and resources to Bin Laden. For Secretary Powell who led allied troops to victory in the Gulf War, this war against terrorist will be fought on an entirely different battlefield.

POWELL: And so you have to design a campaign plan that goes after that kind of enemy. And it isn't always blunt force military, although that is certainly an option.

KOPPEL: But diplomatic sources say whatever option the U.S. chooses to take, it will need the support of Islamic countries. Such support would send a strong message to Bin Laden and his Islamic extremist supporters around the world. They have no where to hide. Andrea Koppel, CNN at the State Department.


CLANCY: Now, as we have reported, the United States has presented Pakistan with ways that it could help in the aftermath of Tuesday's attacks. Friday, Pakistan's leadership pledged to quote fully cooperate. Officials in Washington know, want to know how the broader military leadership there thinks. CNN's Tom Mintier is in Pakistan. He joins us now with more on that. Tom.

TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, in the next three-quarters of an hour we should know better what that level of cooperation between Pakistan and the United States will be. There is a national security counsel and a cabinet meeting that will be going on to discuss a meeting that occurred yesterday with all of the top military commanders, a lengthy meeting. At the end of the meeting according to the ministry of information, they were unanimous in condemning terrorism and pledging the support to the United States.

Now the United States has put a list of specific demands to the Pakistani government, closing its door with Afghanistan, stopping fuel supplies to the Taliban. And also, if required, allowing U.S. planes to fly over Pakistani air space. In addition to that, possibly even more important is to provide human intelligence to the United States about Osama Bin Laden.

In 1998, when cruise missile rain down on Afghanistan they were largely ineffective because they didn't have that type of cooperation. Pakistan has pledged fully cooperation with the United States. What they're waiting for I'm sure in the State Department right now and the Pentagon is what that level of cooperation is. What will be allied and what will not be allowed.

But we should know later this afternoon, the Pakistani government has said they will announce publicly what they are going to be doing. They will bring basically the entire country into its confidence telling them up front what the level of cooperation will be with the United States.

Now the Pakistani President has a very difficult line to walk helping the United States and to counter terrorism and keeping domestic situation at home calm. So we should know in the next couple of hours what those steps that the Pakistani government is going to afford to the United States if and when a military strike is involved. What will be allowed to happen here and how the Pakistani government will assist the United States, Jim.

CLANCY: Briefly, Tom, if the United States and President Bush wants to build a coalition is there any country more important than Pakistan?

MINTIER: I think there's probably no country as important and as critical to any operation as Pakistan, because they indeed do have the best human intelligence on the ground because of the close ties with the Taliban. I think that the Saudi Arabia could also play a major role in the Islamic world because Saudi Arabia has experience in dealing with the United States.

If the Saudi's are seen to be on board as supposedly a Saudi diplomat is coming to Pakistan today or tomorrow to meet with the government officials to discuss the level of cooperation. So I think Pakistan is probably number one and Saudi Arabia is probably number two in the list of importance to the United States in this coalition effort.

CLANCY: All right. Tom Mintier, thank you for that update.

MCEDWARDS: And of course, we will go back to Tom Mintier if there are any developments out of Pakistan on that issue of support. But for now we want to toss it back to Donna -- Donna.

KELLEY: All right, Jim and Colleen, thanks very much. As we carry on here, the world -- much of the world shares America's grief. And it also shares its concern that terrorists can strike any time, any where. Have the terrorist attacks shaken your sense of security?

We are taking your questions and comments is MJ Gohel of the Asia Pacific Foundation. It's a London based policy assessment group that focuses on security and terrorism issues. And you can start calling us back if you'd like right now. The number in the United States is 1-404-221-1855. Mr. Gohel, thank you very much for joining us.

How strong do you think the cells and the networks of terrorists are around the globe?

MJ GOHEL, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: I think one of the most important issues that has come out of this awful tragedy is the appreciation and realization that there is a network. It's just not enough to bomb one or two camps in Afghanistan or dismantle the camps in the madrasa (ph), the religious groups in Pakistan. There is an international network that stretches out to Western Europe and to the U.S.A. through affiliate companies, through cultural organizations for the recruitment of both funds and personnel.

KELLEY: Well as you probably have heard, the President has said that there will be no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them. Our Tom Mintier was just reporting from Pakistan that perhaps Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are two of the most important countries to get on board for support. Where do you think most of the terrorists are? And who is important to get on board?

GOHEL: The brain center for the terrorism is undoubtedly in Afghanistan. And the recruitment is done through some of the madrasa's (ph). These are the religious gurus and there are several thousand of these in Pakistan. The terrorist groups at one time in the '60s and '70s the- were based in the Middle East. But during the '80s the shift has been towards central and south Asia. The training -- the brain center is in Afghanistan. But the reach is all over the world.

The bombings in Africa, the attack on U.S.S. Cole is an indication of the kind of reach that these groups have. And one is dealing here not just with one group, one is dealing here with dozens of groups with different leaderships. There wasn't any one single leader. It's quite a big problem, this.

KELLEY: Well, and as you say worldwide reach because as one of the diplomats was quoted on a story today that I saw never dreamed, or words to the effect, never dreamed that a terror attack like this could happen in the United States. Let's go to a caller for you. Traci from Pennsylvania. Traci.


KELLEY: Go right ahead.

TRACI: How are you?

KELLEY: Good. Go right ahead.

TRACI: I was calling from Philadelphia. My schools were closed Wednesday here and I was glad it happened. I was home with my son. I saw just trying to explain how - what was going on. He just thought it was an accident. "Mommy, what's this accident?"

KELLEY: How old is your son, Traci?

TRACI: He just turned 11 in July.

KELLEY: And was he worried?

TRACI: At first no because he thought it was an accident. You know mommy what's this accident? Mommy, what's this accident?

KELLEY: What did you explain to him? How did you explain terrorism?

TRACI: It's very, very hard. You can't explain terrorism to a child. Terrorism to an adult, we understand. We've seen Beirut, Lebanon. We've seen what goes on in Iraq and Iran, but my child does not know anything about that. You know and I'm trying to explain to him that some people were mad. They were angry. They don't like how we run our government or how our government has influenced on other countries. And he's still like what are you talking about? He doesn't get it.

KELLEY: What about that, Mr. Gohel. How do you explain that to a child or to an adult? How do you explain the mindset of a terrorist or a terrorism?

GOHEL: This is -- I mean how on earth would you explain what's happened even to an adult. I still am trying to reconcile myself at the horrific pictures that I've seen since Tuesday. To put the whole issue in perspective, America's been through two World War's but did not suffer any attack on its mainland. And when Japan, the entire Japanese air force attacked Pearl Harbor on the Day of Infamy, some 2000 people were killed.

Now here on a normal day without any declaration of war, without the use of any kind of air force jets, at least 5000 people have died. The only way to understand this is to accept that you're dealing here with a group of people who's loyalty is to an ideology and not to any country. There is nothing tangible here. You can't negotiate with them because there's nothing you can offer them. It's not a territorial dispute, it's not localized. It's a battle of ideology. It's a battle between a group of people who believe in a very fundamentalist lifestyle. And who see the free world, the democratic world. And America, as a leader of that free world to be the enemy. It's a battle of ideologies. KELLEY: Let's bring in one of our international correspondents who's been in war zones before. Alessio Vinci, is joining us and he is in New York -- Alessio.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am in New York and I would have never thought of covering a war zone like situation in the middle of Manhattan. It's really a situation, I mean, you heard in the last hour or so everybody talking about the war, about whether there should be retaliation.

Whether it should be strong or whether it should be measured. And it's quite incredible walking here in downtown Manhattan and this is in the area that's been sealed off by the police and by the army. Walking around earlier this morning, for example I was going along an empty street and I saw a column of military humvees driving by me and I certainly at that moment felt that I was back in Bosnia or in Kosovo or in Chechnya. And it was quite incredible thinking that at that moment I was on Canal Street in the middle of Manhattan.

And, as I'm speaking to you know, I'm hearing helicopters hovering overhead. At times there is a military jet patrolling the skies. Certainly, all situations that we have been experiencing far away from the United States namely in Kosovo or in Macedonia recently or in Yugoslavia. It's quite an incredible situation to be here in the middle of Manhattan covering a situation that looks very much like a war zone.

KELLEY: Alessio, I don't know if you had time to talk with people where you -- I don't know if you were in Rome or where you were before you came to New York. Because you're based now in Rome, but you've been certainly in Yugoslavia and in Bosnia. Did you have a chance to talk to people in Europe to ask them how they felt about an attack that happened on U.S. soil?

VINCI: Yes, I have. And there are two things that often come up. The first one is the fact that everybody recognizes in Europe that this is the first time, as one of our callers I believe was reminding us that the first time the Americans are suffering an attack on their mainland. And a lot of the people, especially, I must say, some of the friends of the people that I know in Yugoslavia are telling me "well, now the Americans too know what it means to suffer and to have victims."

Of course, this attack is of a completely different nature. And the sheer number of people who are believed to be dead 5000, I mean, we haven't had that number of civilian casualties throughout the entire Yugoslavia -- NATO bombing campaign on Yugoslavia. So certainly you cannot compare the two things.

But a lot of people overseas were telling me that perhaps the Americans will start feeling a little bit about what it means to be a victim of such an attack. But mainly what everybody's telling me is that you know asking me how are the Americans feeling? How are they coping with this? And one thing I was noticing today when President George Bush arrived here to see all of those firefighters chanting "USA, USA, USA." I would have never really believed that something like this could have happened so spontaneously. Again, covering many wars in the Balkans, how many times I've seen hard line nationalist Serbs chanting Serbia, Serbia, Serbia and I thought I was something perhaps a little bit negative. But in this case to see this group of firefighters and rescue workers chanting "USA, USA" and again, in the middle of Manhattan.

I mean it's -- I must stress this fact, and I don't know how many times I can really say it. To be here in the heart of New York and to look at what's happening behind me. Huge cranes. Two collapsed buildings. Two planes collapsed into it. It's just incredible. I myself cannot believe it.

KELLEY: Are there some people, Alessio, who -- does it make them more fearful that a terrorist attack could happen to them and what could happen now on international soil as well?

VINCI: Well you know in Europe, especially in the '70s there has been a lot of terrorist attacks in Germany, in Italy and so some of the...

KELLEY: And the airport...

VINCI: And the airport in Italy, of course. So terrorism has struck Italy and Germany and to some extent France. And, you know, every day in the news today. Take for example the bombing, what's happening in Macedonia or Northern Ireland or in Corsica. I mean, there are many - or in the Basque region. I mean there are many areas in Europe today where not this kind of attack.

Again, this is possibly the largest terrorist attack I think in history. I cannot imagine where one single attack has killed so many people. So certainly, the Europeans are a little bit more familiar with what terrorism means. Whether they're more fearful, I don't think so. Because, you know, in this kind of situation, usually the level of security increases and then the likelihood of a new attack decreases.

But certainly, they are watching a lot more carefully about perhaps where to stay or especially in the areas where there is high risk of more attacks and namely the airports for example.

KELLEY: And we're looking at a live picture of the Pentagon as we continue to visit here this evening. Tom in New Mexico is on the phone with us. Tom. Hi, Tom, would you go ahead please? Are you there? No, think we've lost Tom, I'm sorry. Brian in Chicago, would you go ahead, please?

BRIAN: I just wanted to say that I'm completely behind President Bush's campaign to approve the $10 billion for the airlines and improving security. As far as fortifying the doors, putting Marshals on planes and restricting passengers from ticket only places. They're trying to cut down on the traffic for the -- you know, the security guards, so they can do a better job to prevent this from happening.

KELLEY: And no curbside check-in. That's one of the other new rules.

BRIAN: Yeah, I didn't completely understand the rationale for that because I don't think they're matching up passengers with the baggage.

KELLEY: Well, I think that what they're trying to do is keep the baggage with the people and make sure that they're matching up. But they used to do that at curbside too, when you mentioned that. But that's one of the new rules that they want in effect. And so that's one of the new ones that they'll do for security.

Mr. Gohel, to get back into you, and we talk about some of these extra measures that are being talked about for security at airports. What do you think needs to be done? What steps need to be taken to help root out terrorists?

GOHEL: Firstly, I think there has to be an international response to this. This is a menace that the entire world is facing. America suffered great losses on Tuesday, but terrorism has been there in south and central Asia since about 1989. And the irony is that a terrorist can only operate freely in a democratic society.

The -- when the Soviet Union collapsed, it made the boarders a lot more easy to cross. And terrorists are now able to move around freely. They're able to -- a policeman for instance, cannot stop someone unless he has a warrant or he has reasons or suspicion. And there are so many buildings around the world, so many people all over the world, how does one protect every single individual?

But some steps can be taken as far as airlines are concerned. One thing that could be done, it may be difficult to do is to prevent any kind of access from the passenger area into the cockpit area even if this means creating a separate entry and exit for the cockpit crew.

So that there's no way an airplane can ever be used as a missile as it was done. Other than it's a question of rooting out the terrorist network. It's a question of perceiving these people wherever they are. And eliminating and eradicating the training camps, the infrastructure, and the leadership. And for this the entire international community will have to work together.

KELLEY: Our great thanks to you, MJ Gohel of the Asia Pacific foundation. We thank you very much. You focus on security and terrorism issues. And we're glad you could come to visit with us today. Thanks very much.

You know, if adults feel insecure, how much more so must children feel? From the first moments of the attack we have seen one disturbing image after another. The planes piercing those towers, the World Trade Center towers like flaming arrows. People jumping from buildings that moments later crumbled into a storm of debris.

How can we describe to our children what is happening in terms that they understand without taking away the security that they need to feel. We're going to talk about that in just a moment. First though, let's go back to Jim Clancy and Colleen McEdwards for the latest news of investigation into the attacks and certainly the search and rescue and recovery mission. Jim and Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: It's a great topic, isn't it, Donna? I know a lot of my friends are talking about how they talk to their kids about this? What do you say? What do you do?

CLANCY: You have to be thinking about that and addressing it and talking to your children. We'll probably get some good tips here in the coming minutes. But let's get up-to-date with the latest developments in the story itself.

Searchers have recovered the cockpit voice recorder from the hijacked plane that crashed in Western Pennsylvania. It was recovered at the bottom of a deep crater. Now it's being sent to Washington for analysis. This was the plane that is believed to have crashed after a struggle between passengers and the hijackers.

MCEDWARDS: And in other developments, Congress has passed a joint resolution authorizing President Bush to use military force against those responsible for the attacks.

CLANCY: And authorities say that they have made their first arrest in the investigation, a person who was picked up as a material witness.

Well, resolution was passed by Congress that had been delayed by a dispute over the text. The house finally approved a measure late Friday 420 to one endorsing the president's ability to act militarily. Representative Barbara Lee was the lone dissenter. The California Democrat saying military action will not prevent international terrorism against the U.S.

The Senate had already voted unanimously in favor of that resolution. One Senator says the body is single-minded in its desire for action.


SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: Ten years ago I helped draft the resolution that George Bush, then President that won the Gulf War with coalition allies. It was three days and three nights of ferocious debate on the Senate floor. And it prevailed by only five votes. This one is 100 votes. What clear evidence, Senator Levine and I worked on the drafting with our leadership of this what clear evidence of the unity in Congress and the Congress speak to the people of the United States.


CLANCY: Meanwhile, at the request of the Defense Department, Mr. Bush has given the go ahead for as many as 50,000 national guardsman and reservists to assist with so called homeland defense plans.

MCEDWARDS: And the president -- sorry, the president got a first hand look at the site in lower Manhattan known as ground zero. Amid the rubble of the twin towers, Mr. Bush spoke to rescue workers who responded patriotically. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I want you all to know. It can't go any louder. I want you all to know that America today is on a bended knee in prayer for the people who's lives were lost here, for the workers who work here, for the families who mourn. This nation stands with the good people of New York City and New Jersey and Connecticut, as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens.

I can hear you. I can hear you, the rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. The nation sends its love and compassion to everybody who is here. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for making the nation proud. And may God bless America.


MCEDWARDS: You can imagine what a moral booster that was because the pressure on those folks, the search, rescue and recovery teams has been just unrelenting. The searchers race against the clock to reach anyone who could still be alive in that pile of rubble. For one blind survivor who managed to get down hundreds of feet of stairs in the chaos with his guide dog, memories of that attack still very fresh. Listen.


MICHAEL HINGSON: I was very concerned. I didn't hear the second plane hit but we knew that at that time something had happened. We figured that a plane had hit the building because I could smell and we all could smell jet fuel fumes. So we knew there was something going on.


MCEDWARDS: And it is the victims and their families that were the focus of Friday's national day or prayer and remembrance designated by U.S. President George Bush at the National Cathedral in Washington, patriotic songs led the way, as Mr. Bush joined four past presidents and other dignitaries in display of grief and an attempt to comfort as well. Prayers and services were offered in other churches, synagogues, mosques and public squares right across the country.

In Las Vegas, the bright neon lights dimmed as the Nevada City paid its respects as well. Farther west in the state of Washington candles flickered at a Seattle vigil to remember the lives lost and effected by those terrorist attacks.

Well, it's a struggle for anyone to come to terms with this week's horrible loss of life. But children have to rely on their parents or other adults to help them cope with their grief and their fear. The terrifying nature of these attacks has prompted schools to enlist the help of counselors for the kids. Thomas Nybo has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) THOMAS NYBO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You want to protect your kids. They're small and the world is big. And sometimes very bad things happen to good people, even when they where a helmet and look both ways.

If things go wrong, horribly wrong what do you do? On the first day back to classes, the attacks, the tragedy was very much on the minds of New Yorkers. For this father, a reminder of how a seven year-old sees the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was quite intrigued that the empire state building is now the second tallest building. And he kept saying that over and over again. So and that's appropriate. And I had to kind of scale back and not try and lecture him on the significance of the event. He's seven. He's dealing with it the way a seven-year-old should.

NYBO: For Steve Ross's 13-year-old daughter, a complicated start to a new school year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to get now back in the routine. We hadn't figured out a routine to begin with, yet. So to try to get back to a routine that was never there is kind of difficult.

NYBO: Even for someone who's made the United States a recent home, similar issues with her 10-year-old son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's made up that he was fighting against the terrorist so he was working with like fake guns at home. And hiding behind furnitures. And just making up like how he will defend the country.

NYBO: Around the corner, long after classes had ended for the day, a private school for girls held a crash course for parents on how to help your child face the unthinkable. Counselors offered ways to listen when your child isn't speaking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have children who are not necessarily the most verbal. Some who are not able to articulate things in words. We need to take a look at the drawings they draw. The way they play with their dolls in their room. Things that they may be saying to their friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically shielding her from the whole thing.

NYBO: Questions from parents looking for ways to explain to their children what really happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A terrible evil happened in the world. A very, very bad thing took place. And we're all doing our best to get back to a comfort and a safety...

NYBO: The final questions come in a flurry. They needed to get home early, it was after all a school night. Thomas Nybo, CNN, New York.


CLANCY: And that should be a good opening to this next segment in our discussion, reactions to what's been going on over the last four days. Now back to Donna.

KELLEY: Jim, you're so right. And Colleen, thanks very much. We'll carry on with the children. Certainly, you want to protect your children from evil. We do. But it would be really almost impossible to shield them from what's been happening in New York City and Washington.

How should we be talking with our children about these tragedies? From Los Angeles we are joined by child psychologist Robert Butterworth. Dr. Butterworth has assisted radio, TV and print media since 1984 to try and enhance the understanding really of what a child goes through when they get into a psychological issue and the trauma that they face. Dr. Butterworth thanks for coming to talk with us.


KELLEY: First things, first, what do you do? Maybe they've seen the images. So how do you open the door with a child?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, first of all, you know why it's so hard because for all of these adults that are struggling because in a sense we failed them. You know, we bring these children into the world and we give them this perception that all is well, everyone is good and all of a sudden something like that happens. So the child that runs up to my wife who's a teacher, who's 10-years-old and says something like "What did we do that made them so mad?" And the other child that is so quiet at play and won't say anything, but builds little blocks like a tower, and then smashes them down...

KELLEY: So they're afraid they're in trouble? Or they've done something?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, you know the problem is that in a sense little children don't verbalize. They don't sit and talk like you and I do with little children. They won't talk to you. But what they'll do is get some paper, get some crayons, get some pencils and say "Gee, what's been happening on TV?" When they draw they'll talk. And then you'll find out what they think. And even those kids that aren't talking about, there's something in their head and they're thinking about it.

KELLEY: Should you force a child to talk if they're not talking to you? Should you try to draw them out?

BUTTERWORTH: No. That's why we're using play, because by playing with them they're having fun anyhow...

KELLEY: At a certain age, like you're saying the younger kids you need the paper and crayons. So maybe we could kind of make it age appropriate.

BUTTERWORTH: OK. That's -- OK the drawings and the play and all of that from about seven and younger. From about seven to 12 a lot of kids are going to be kind of stuck on one thing. Remember, it used to be with post traumatic stress that you would get it if you were exposed to it, if you were there and you couldn't get the image out of your head.

But in this new technology, you don't have to be there. You can be exposed in your living room. You're sitting there watching these buildings come down and people jumping. So there are a lot kids that are quiet, but they want to talk about it. So what you do is you spend a little time. And you know, even at the age of about seven to 12 they're not going to sit and talk. But maybe at the dinner table. Have a little briefing. Everybody goes around the table and says how they feel about it. And if everybody else does it maybe the kids will start to open up.

KELLEY: One of the most important words listen, right?

BUTTERWORTH: And it's hard. And as we get -- especially with the older ones, because the older ones are going to be arguing. Remember, teenagers want action. They want something to happen. And they may be mad at mom and dad. Why didn't you fix this? And -- or well, let's get them. So there's a lot more anger, and a lot more energy and a lot more intensity.

KELLEY: We're going to talk about some of those emotions. Let's get a call in here. Liz from West Virginia, hi.

LIZ: Hi. When I put my daughter to be tonight she just kind of looked at me with tears in her eyes and she asked me, "Mommy why does this man hate us so much?" What am I supposed to say to that child? She's only nine.



KELLEY: What should she say? She put her daughter to bed, nine years old. She was in tears. Saying why does this man hate us so much. And she wants to know what she can do.

BUTTERWORTH: OK. Well first of all, you have to remember that most of the kids that are going to be having problems are going to be having problems at night time. No matter what happens in the day time, they keep busy, and at night this is where all of the fears come up. You really have to say that there are bad people in the world, but most of the people are good.

The people around you, the people that you know you go to school with are good. And you have to kind of in a sense drown out the bad with the good. There's no perfect answer. But by letting them know that their environment and their surroundings are filled with good people, and there are bad people, they can cope because they put it in some sort of perspective. But night time is going to be difficult because that's when things get dark. Remember all of the kids fears come out and all of their little fantasies. KELLEY: OK. So we talk about fear, loss, maybe some kids have lost their parents. And I've seen some of the women who are even expecting babies who will never know their fathers. There's hate. There's anger. There's sadness. And I know it depends on the child and it depends on the age, what would you recommend to really is there kind of something that you could -- a point that you can start that really makes sense for a lot of kids? That they really will understand to cover a range of emotions?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, depending on what the emotion is because remember, with children, when they feel stress it's completely different than adults. When adults are under stress and depression they slow down. Kids speed up. So kids are going to be fighting. They're going to be hyper. They're going to have difficulty concentrating.

They're also going to have problems physically. Appetite, they're going to be crying, they're going to be clinging. So all of these things happen with kids and you just deal with each one at one time. With the food -- maybe have different feedings. With the bed maybe have them sleep closer to you. With the concentration, maybe limit school.

But generally with most kids who haven't lost a parent, who haven't been exposed directly to the threat, these things should even off. But, Donna, the problem is in most tragedies things start to even off, but things are going to so fast we're just finishing with this and all of a sudden we're talking about war. So in a sense, now kids are getting frightened not because of the images that they see but all of this talk of war and that's another trauma coming down the road.

KELLEY: Try to keep to as normal of a routine as you can but flexible if they need you or want to sleep in the same bed with mommy and daddy, that's OK?

BUTTERWORTH: Research in all types of tragedies, all types of devastation one thing keeps coming up. Try to remember as much as you can to get back to normal routine. Anything that has to do with structure, anything that has to do with the way things were before, that's so important.

KELLEY: OK. On the phone with us is Holly from Arkansas. Hi, Holly. What's your question?

HOLLY: Hello. Yes, my children when I brought them home from school I had sat them down and I had told them everything. I did not lie to them. I told them everything. They are only eight and nine years old. And I was wondering was that an appropriate thing for me to do?

KELLEY: You did tell them everything you say?

HOLLY: Yes, ma'am.

KELLEY: And probably in a way that was -- you said they were eight and 10.

HOLLY: Eight and nine.

KELLEY: Eight and nine, OK. And were they frightened?

HOLLY: My nine-year-old started crying. And I asked her, I said you need to let me know what you're afraid of that way, that I can explain it to her.

KELLEY: OK. Let me - I think Dr. Butterworth is having trouble hearing our callers.

BUTTERWORTH: Now it's fine.

KELLEY: OK. Well Holly in Arkansas said that she has the eight and nine year-old, if you missed the first part of it. And they were asking her about it. And she told them really in a way she thought was appropriate, told them everything. And she said should she have? Was that the right thing to do?

BUTTERWORTH: Yes. And a lot of people don't like this. They would like to say, you know, why shouldn't we just protect our children from this? Let's turnoff the TV. Let's pretend it's not happening.

KELLEY: But shouldn't you at a certain age and a certain amount that you tell them? Is there a protection factor that should come up there?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, obviously the protection factor are kids that aren't exposed to other kids that aren't going to school yet. And that's obviously kids under kindergarten that way. But the problem is for saying we're not talking about it.

We're not discussing it. Kids go back into the school, kids go back into their environment, and let's face it -- this is the biggest story in the last 50 years. We're not going to hide it. And remember it's what kids don't know that hurt them, not what they know. And if you don't tell them the facts, they'll fantasize their own version reality which in many cases is much worse than the events that are occurring.

KELLEY: I've got a baby and 20-year-old. Major Garrett, I know you have a couple of kids. Are they extra worried? What have you told them? Because you're covering the White House? And if they heard maybe that the White House might have been a target, the President was in danger, are they worried about daddy?

GARRETT: Well, Donna, I have three children. Six, four and 17- months. And Mr. Butterworth might argue with my methods here but I have imposed a complete news blackout at my house.

KELLEY: Did they know anything about it before you imposed the blackout?

GARRETT: Well, my son Luke, who's four, the day that this tragedy happened came home from school early and he said to my wife, Julie (ph), I heard there was an explosion. Can we get some popcorn so we can sit and watch it on television? He thought it was fireworks. That's how my four-year-old reacted. He thought this was about fireworks.

And I was not at home at the time, I was in Sarasota, Florida covering the president. And my wife and I talked about this a good deal and I said look -- we cannot explain this to them. They're six and four. I'm at the White House. The president is under a higher degree of threat than he's ever been and I don't want them to worry about me. And I don't want them to get the sense that the world is crashing down around them.

Thirdly, we travel to California twice a year to see their grandparents. We fly by plane. I in no way wanted them to see pictures of airplanes crashing into buildings because I want them to associate everything about these trips positively: getting on a plane to see their grandparents. It's a big ritual for us. It's a huge deal twice a year to make this trip.

KELLEY: And I'll tell you, Major, I think a lot of people would agree with you. But that's what Dr. Butterworth was just saying. Dr. Butterworth, what about that? In fact you say your four-year-old came home and had already found out about it. What about that? Major would rather that his children not know about this, particularly flying to see the grandparents. And keep it a pleasant and lovely experience. And he would rather that they not find out anything about it.

BUTTERWORTH: And for the 4-year-old that's probably workable. He's right. I'd rather that his children not find out about it either. But the problem with the 6-year-old, if the 6-year-old is in school when the parents aren't there they're going to be talking about it. Then what do you do?

KELLEY: Yeah. Major, what's your plan B?

GARRETT: Well Mary Ellen, my 6-year-old has been back at school just for one day. Thursday. She was off Wednesday as many classes were around the country. She was also off today as it happened because there was a teacher training day built into the schedule. So she's only been in school for one day this week. And it really wasn't a big topic of conversation in her first grade class. And my decision and my wife's decision has not been to lead with this information. Not to bring it to her attention.

We haven't had the radio on. What television we have had on has been movies on the VCR. And I'll tell you, there was one poignant moment. We were watching the Sound of Music which has become a very popular movie with my two children. They know all of the songs. And Mary Ellen my daughter said you know why did the Von Trapp family have to leave Austria? Why did they want to come to America?

And of course that's a myth built into the movie that Von Trapp family fled that Nazi occupation of Austria by climbing over the mountains, but nevertheless, it's an important part of the movie. And here I am explaining to her the importance of someone at another time coming to America for freedom and liberty and a chance to live a life of their dreams.

While in my professional life, I'm dealing with the fact that thousands of my countrymen have been killed for that very same reason amidst this horror. And personally I'm dealing with that much more than she is. And I'll take that burden and try to spare her from it as much as I can.

KELLEY: Let's talk to Betsy in Virginia. She's a teacher. Betsy, hello.

BETSY: Hi. I'm a sixth grade teacher. And I'm just wondering how much is appropriate for me to discuss at school opposed to what they're hearing at home.

KELLEY: That's a good -- did you say fifth or sixth grade? I'm sorry.

BETSY: Sixth grade. They're in an elementary school but they're sixth grade.

KELLEY: OK. Bob, what do you think? What's appropriate there?

BUTTERWORTH: Let's see, they're sixth grade so they're probably about 12-years-old. Probably the best thing to do, because kids get a little nervous and anxious and they kind of never know when to talk about it, when not to. Maybe again talking about this with your school. Set a little period of time every day. Call it a news briefing. And sit down. Make sure you have maps. Because you need put things in perspective, where things are happening. And let them just talk about it.

But it's a special time every day, the same time. You don't necessarily show the images. You just talk about how you're feeling and you try to correct the errors that they may have.

Remember, kids sometimes don't know geography. So they may think oh my God the buildings are dropping not hundreds of miles away, but blocks away. So those kinds of conceptions can be cleared up. But again, everyone has to be kind of careful about this because some parents may get upset. And that's why my feeling is it's probably better for the parent to do it only because in our society, the parents have to do the tough job. And the tough job is breaking news to kids that this is not always a happy and pleasant world

KELLEY: And as we mentioned before the president talked about how it would be a monumental battle between the forces of evil and good, but that good would win out. Do you address that? Do you talk about evil versus good?

BUTTERWORTH: My God, it sounds like a Star Wars scenario. But you know, that's how kids are understanding this. I mean kids don't have any history or any sense of war in reality. They see war on television. They see war in movies. And they have these battles between good and evil. And I think kids have that sense. But I think you have to just slowly approach that and let the child lead. And please, if the child doesn't want to talk about it and they get really upset, stop. And say yes but when you do want to talk -- I'm here.

KELLEY: Another phone call. Chip from Philadelphia. Hi, Chip.


KELLEY: Go right ahead.

CHIP: Yeah, I'm a father and a grandfather and I've learned a long time ago that children are born to love. You really have to work hard to teach them how to hate. And if more of our world leaders would maybe visit a daycare and watch the children, we might not have so many troubles in the world. Because children just don't hate. You have to teach them how to do that.

KELLEY: What about that Bob?

BUTTERWORTH: You're right. Kids don't hate. But kids get angry. And they understand when people -- adults get angry. Remember a lot of the youngsters right now are feeling what the parents are feeling. Parents are angry and then you wonder why your kid is angry? Or parents are kind of shocked and then you wonder why your kids anxious. So really, getting a sense of what's going on has a lot to do with first of all getting your own thoughts together. Getting your own emotions together. And then going to the child.

But you're right, and that's why it's so difficult to do this, because as your correspondent was telling us I mean he doesn't want to tell his kids. I don't either but, my God, this is the world that we gave them. I don't blame the teenagers for being mad at us because, in a sense, we didn't fix it and it's there job to now make it a better place.

KELLEY: You know we've kind of touched on this a little bit when we were talking about routines and the little girl who was put to bed who was in tears. And you can tell there are some fears. What do you watch for in a child to see if they are struggling with this?

BUTTERWORTH: The child's mood will change. You know, if you know your child, you know kind of how they feel when they get upset, you know the general mood. If you notice that there's been a change, that child is either more quiet or more hyper. If a child is afraid to go to bed at night, is kind of hesitant.

If the child is having problems eating. Especially if the child doesn't want to -- you notice a child's around you a lot more. They keep looking at you. They don't want to leave your site. Because remember for a child there are two senses of -- two self senses of security. The physical environment and the parents. And both of these are threatened in this disaster.

KELLEY: OK. Sally from Virginia is on the phone with us. Hi, Sally.

SALLY: I'm calling from Virginia Beach. This is a major military facility. And we've got a lot kids that have parents that are in the military and are being effected directly by this. I have a child that I've been watching for a couple days here, she's nine. She's real concerned because her dad is also involved. So I guess we sat down and talked to her. And the best we could come up with for a nine-year-old is that this is a neighborhood bully. This is the world's bully. And the only way we can talk about it at that point is it's not for her to worry about it. That the adults will handle the bullies.

KELLEY: Is that effective, Bob? Now here you have a whole different situation, kids with military families. That adds an extra worry.

BUTTERWORTH: Yeah, and it's a new worry. And the kids have not even gotten integrated in terms of this disaster and now we're getting troops called up, reserves called up. And now we have a whole other sense of kids getting anxious. And we actually addressed that during the Gulf War. We had kids that couldn't talk about this. So we actually got little two trucks, little toy soldiers. And we had them kind of play-act what they were feeling.

Some kids were so mad we actually got a Saddam Hussein puppet and have them kick it and punch it an all of that. Because they were all getting out all of the anger out that way. But the point is you have to tell them little bits. Just let them know, when they ask you a question, answer it. But don't keep talking when they're kind of phased out. But again, we have another group of kids here who are now getting another anxiety and worry. Their dad is going to have to fight these bad people.

KELLEY: And then the kids who have lost a parent perhaps in the horrific terrorist action on Tuesday. And then that may spill over into other children who are afraid that they could lose their mom and dad. What about those kids?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, I mean we're talking about two separate groups here. I mean the tragedy of people who lose loved ones. I mean, this is a long-term therapy situation. I mean, this is something that's just devastating for a child to lose their mother or father. And this isn't something that we can you know talk about in little tips. This is a question of these people are going to need long-term professional help.

KELLEY: Well, and that's one of the things I wanted to ask you too. I mean it could be -- we say moms and dads but it could be moms, dads, grandparents, uncles, aunts, you know brother, sisters, all of the people who have been hurting so greatly. How long do you keep talking to kids? Do you keep talking to adults? Do you keep offering this support?

BUTTERWORTH: Research shows that after disasters such as Oklahoma City, years after they see alcohol rates go up, divorce rates go up, domestic abuse goes up. When the counselors, as they're descending into New York and Washington start doing their therapy, they have to remember, don't leave. Don't go in a month when this story may be not be the primary thing to focus on because they're going to need a permanent counseling centers for a long-time. Especially for those people that not just lost loved ones, but people that knew loved ones, and had families or have groups of friends at the workplace, and now they're left and no one else is there.

KELLEY: Yeah, the kids who are frightened. The adults who are frightened. It will go on and maybe go through even stages of grief.

BUTTERWORTH: Yeah, things that we may not even know of because this is much more horrific than what we've studied in the past.

KELLEY: Your best advise to someone who's suffering tonight or has children to talk to? Listen?

BUTTEWORTH: Listen, love. And I know it's not very fashionable for therapists to say, but go to church and pray and talk to people you haven't talked with before. And just get other people to help you hold yourself up because you can't do it alone.

KELLEY: Yeah. Been a lot of that going on. We need to keep it. Bob Butterworth, child psychologist joining us from Los Angeles tonight. A pleasure to have you with us and try to help us with this and help other folks. Thank you very much.


KELLEY: And Dr. Butterworth, along with our other guests certainly for these last couple of hours. I want to thank them as well. General Wesley Clark, MJ Gohel of the Asia Pacific Foundation. And of course, thanking all of you. We're so glad that you could be with us tonight.

If you called in and even if you didn't get a chance to air your question or comment, we're glad you were watching. And we certainly want you to stay tuned to CNN. We'll always have the latest developments for you on America's new war coming up right now.



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