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Politicians, Economy React to Terrorism; Investigation Moves Slowly

Aired September 18, 2001 - 17:00   ET


JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Saying the words no one wants to hear.


RUDOLPH GIULIANI, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We don't have any substantial amount of hope that we can offer anyone that we are going to be able to find anybody alive.


CHEN: But still they call it a rescue mission. And a new mission under way.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's going to be a long, drawn-out event.


CHEN: Wondering, and worrying, that the final destination may be a battleground. And on the hunt for Osama Bin Laden; following the money trail as another way to reach the prime suspect where it hurts. Good evening. From CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Joie Chen.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From New York City, I'm Bill Hemmer. Welcome again back to CNN coverage today, on this Tuesday, just past 5:00 local time here in Manhattan. Let's start by bringing you up to date on the very latest developments we have on America's new war on terrorism. Authorities telling CNN one of the 19 hijackers, Mohammed Atta, held a meeting this year with an Iraqi intelligence agent. The officials say the lead right now is being pursued.

Exactly one week later, the number of dead and missing rose today to nearly 6,000, including more than 5,400 here in New York. Today, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, also released this videotape we're watching that offers a graphic look at the damage site and conditions facing workers there.

Financial markets stabilized somewhat today after yesterday's plunge. The Dow and the Nasdaq each posted losses of fewer than 25 points. Sources tell CNN United Airlines is planning at least 20,000 layoffs. In Washington, the chairman of Delta Airlines said an airline industry bailout may cost $24 billion.

More developments at this hour. Today a service in Pennsylvania for the pilot of United Airlines flight 175. Victor Saracini was laid to rest. The pilot left behind a wife and two young children. The first of many, many funerals if this country. Now to Atlanta and Joie.

CHEN: Today in Washington, President Bush remembered the victims of last Tuesday's attacks. At the same time, he and the government press ahead. At this hour, Mr. Bush is nearing a meeting with the French president, Jacques Chirac, who has expressed support -- his nation's support -- for the U.S. fight against terrorism.

CNN's John King is standing by at the White House now with the very latest. John, what does the president hope to get out of this meeting and others?

JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly a face-to-face president -- face-to-face meeting with the French president indicates the level of the diplomatic contacts arising. The British Prime Minister Tony Blair will be here on Thursday as well. But with the French in particular, an interesting ripple if you will, to this major diplomatic challenge the president is facing.

France, as have many other countries, have said they will stand side-by-side with United States in the war against terrorism, but we are told senior administration officials making clear to the French president and the foreign minister, who was over at the State Department earlier today, if that is the case, you must put actions behind your words.

The United States has criticized the French over the years for doing business with iran, for doing business with the government of Saddam Hussein. The United States saying that if you are to stand with us in this war on terrorism, you have to stop doing business with governments, states that we believe sponsor terrorism. Joie.

CHEN: John, let's get to some items you and I talked about on the telephone earlier in the day, one being sort the of policy of silence from the government about exactly what might be ahead. Some information we are getting is the information we are not getting, that officials will not say what are they getting from that cockpit-voice recorder from the pennsylvania plane that crashed, the navy has changed some of its policy, a web site you told me, that families normally use to track their loved ones as they go on missions around the world has been stalled at one point. I wonder what this indicates.

KING: Well, it indicates this administration playing very tight when it comes to information, and they say there are several reasons they are doing that. The attorney general just today said yet again they there may be more terrorist cells associated with those responsible for the attacks one week ago still in the United States. President Bush has said repeatedly any information that could betray the sources, the methods of how United States gathered this intelligence will not be released to the public. The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, believes in putting a premium on secrecy when it comes to military operations. That is why you can no longer to the web sites of these naval fleets and find out rough locations of those vessels. The Pentagon telling Jamie McIntyre and our other reporters, producers and correspondents over there that it will not tell us about forward troop deployments, as it has in the past. It's not likely to allow reporters to go on these deployments, if necessary.

They believe this is a very different war, a very different enemy, as they have said -- terrorists who hide, so they don't want us to know, because they believe if we know and broadcast it, Mr. Bin Laden and others would know as well.

CHEN: Understandable. Senior White House Correspondent John King for us -- Bill.

HEMMER: It is Tuesday, a full week since the terror attacks that leveled the World Trade Center and with it leveled thousands and thousands of lives. Still, the rubble lays there, and again, the site is quite gruesome. CNN's Gary Tuchman south on the island of Manhattan with more from what is known now as the zone. Gary, hello.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Bill. Exactly one week after this terrible disaster, 218 bodies have been recovered. But there are more than 5400 people still missing. What that all means is that almost 97% of the victims still have not been accounted for seven days after this tragedy.

That gives you an idea of how catastrophic the scene is three blocks behind me, where the World Trade Center complex used to stand. Small fires continue to burn, smoke continues to rise, all these days later, and the search for survivors continues. However -- and this is a big however -- the mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani, is telling people, gently, not to get their hopes up.


GIULIANI: The chances of recovering any live human beings are very, very small now, given the amount of time and the condition of the site. Those chances are not totally, however, ended or over. So we will still conduct ourselves as a rescue effort as well as a recovery effort. But we don't have any substantial amount of hope that we can offer to anyone that we are going to be able to find anyone alive.


TUCHMAN: You may remember, yesterday we told you 4900 people are missing. Now it's 5400. Why is that list gone up 500 people? A couple of reasons. Number one, the offices in the World Trade Center were very organized. They had lists of all their employees. They handed that in very quickly. There were lots of other people at the World Trade Center complex the day this happened. Also, there were a great number of undocumented workers who were outside the World Trade Center complex: messengers, delivery people, people who are standing outside selling food. So all those people all together and just counting a little more carefully resulted in that higher number. Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: All right, Gary, Thank you. As Gary knows and so many us in New York City who have been down to that particular site, it is difficult for the television images to truly capture what has taken place there in this city. CNN's Martin Savidge with us now, who is down near the site. Earlier today he was taken right up to the rubble in somewhat of a tour, for lack of a better word. Marty, good evening to you

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Bill. It was a tour. It was a tour primarily for about five or six senators that have come in from out of state. These are senators whose committees oversee one of the federal agencies that are overseeing and trying to help out in the rescue effort and the recovery effort.

We are down in much the same area that you saw in some of the fema tape. This is the debris pile. You have heard this talked about a great deal, but you get to be up close. We were literally face-to- face. And I remember, as I was down there, as we struggled over these things, trying to come up with the adjectives, the words to describe this, I remember writing down on my notepad such as obscene, grotesque, otherworldly. It really is as if you have gone into another world.

Trying to figure out landmarks down there is not only difficult for someone who is not as experienced as I am, but also, say, the police officers that used to walk the beat down there. They have spray painted on the sides of buildings in bright orange the address, because people simply cannot recognize landmarks anymore. But here you see what is the exoskeleton there. The American flag is flying everywhere down there. Small flags, you will find then on people that are digging. Big flags you find on the sides of buildings.

The equipment is in place. It is a beehive of activity down there, and a lot of it has to be done by these heavy machineries that are brought into place and lifting tremendous amounts of weight. And sometimes the weight is even too strong for these types of machinery. It really is an amazing thing to see. There is also bigger equipment down there. There were trucks down there today that are massive. They are the sorts that are used on strip-mining operations, something you would never expect to see on a city street. Down there moving around.

HEMMER: Bigger than your typical 18 wheeler that one would see on a highway.

SAVIDGE: Much bigger. About 40 feet tall, rumbling around. HEMMER: When down there today, just knowing the size of the complex when it was standing -- were you able to get a sense of how big the area is as well? Because from the aerials we saw over the weekend, it is a huge space here in Manhattan. SAVIDGE: Massive. But we still don't get that clear vantage point from the ground. The ground gives you the impact. There is no place more right up and close than the ground view. But everywhere the debris piling blocks the view, or the buildings down there block the view, and you don't get that heavy focus. They were doing a lot of this today.

This is surveying. They were going up in a basket that's suspended from a crane -- and these are areas that are too dangerous for people to even tread. So the engineers will go up there and look. In this case what they were doing they were cutting away steel. There are a lot of people down there working, iron workers, some whom originally helped to construct the World Trade Center. Now they are in this awful position of dealing with a building that has been so heavily just twisted, torn, and made into a grotesque shape.

HEMMER: Martin Savidge, up close and personal with the devastation today. It's also interesting how they're still taking so many small pieces out at a time, too.

SAVIDGE: They have.

HEMMER: It's a massive project still ahead. Thanks, Marty. To Joie now in Atlanta. Joie.

CHEN: Officials at the Pentagon have revised the death toll now to 189. An employee died today from injuries suffered during the attack. And there is some new videotape showing damage at the Pentagon. Parking lots adjacent to the complex have been closed as a security precaution. U.S. and military police are also joining the civilian police who provide protection at the complex.

Osama Bin Laden, the prime suspect in last week's terror attacks, is believed to be in Afghanistan. But now, under growing international pressure to hand over Bin Laden to the west, Afghanistan's Taliban leaders are meeting to decide his fate. CNN's Nic Robertson, who has been covering the story from Afghanistan, has this report.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We understand from the Taliban foreign ministry that the clerics are take some time in reaching their -- reaching Kabul, where almost 600 are supposed to gather. We are told that it is because the infrastructure in Afghanistan so is poor that travel takes a long time.

Certainly the roads in this country have been devastated by more than 20 years of conflict. Very few of them have tarmac. Some of these clerics have to travel upwards of 400 miles to reach the capital, Kabul. However, we are told that they will -- when all 600 are in place, they will get down and start debating the issues. We are advised also that their debate could take two to three days.

They will be deciding whether or not to hand over Osama Bin Laden to an outside country, as the United States requests, and whether or not -- or how their country should respond if attacked by the United States. One of the options, we understand, is that they could call for an islamic jihad, a holy war.

The way this council of clerics works is it works by unanimity. That is they will all have to be convinced either yes or no on any of these issues. It's not like a western democracy, where a simple majority vote carries the day. They will thrash it out on the issues they will debate, and one -- those in the majority will be trying to convince those in minority that the majority are correct. And that is why we are told that it could take some time. I'm Nic Robertson, CNN, Kandahar, Afghanistan.

HEMMER: Now that reported money trail. It is said that Osama Bin Laden has money and lots of it. But how did he get it? And how is that money distributed? Tonight, CNN's Allan Dodds Frank on the financial trail.


ALLAN DODDS FRANK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Osama Bin Laden may be the first trust fund terrorist. He is one of about 50 children of mohammed Bin Laden, who built a five billion dollar-construction empire in Saudi Arabia before dying in a 1968 helicopter crash. Osama's inheritance, estimated to be in the tens of millions dollars, became the seed money for a network of businesses.

When he lived in Sudan in the early 1990s, he functioned like a venture capitalist, making money financing bakeries, banks, construction firms, farms, leather goods manufacturers and trucking firms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the keys to unraveling this mystery, how is he financing his operations? And when we know the answer to that, we will know a lot of answers to questions like what is his real capability to terrorize the world?

FRANK: Bin Laden found his calling in the 1980s, joining the effort by the CIA and others to round up muslim warriors to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was thought to have been a relatively junior person, mainly involved in support. Yes, wealthy, and had some money and was spending it, but not one of the central figures at all.

FRANK: Working in part from Pakistan, Bin Laden set up a worldwide network of charitable foundations and recruiting offices. Those operations evolved into his current terrorist organization, called Al Qaeda, "the base," which defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld estimates has followers in more than 60 countries.


FRANK: Tracking Bin Laden's money is particularly difficult, because many of his followers are believed to engage in crime, especially heroin smuggling from Afghanistan. Now, securities regulators from all over the world are looking into whether his followers also tried to profit by selling short stocks that would have been hurt by this disaster. They include airline stocks and insurance stocks, Bill.

HEMMER: That was just fascinating. What more do they know about this? Basically when you short a stock, you are saying that you believe this company and its value will decline.

FRANK: That is correct. And you can -- you do it for a short period of time. And the difference between the price it is at now, and what it ends up at when you are supposed to sell it is your profit. In the United States, shares of American Airlines and United Airlines, their parent companies, were shorted in the weeks and day before, the attack.

Now, United Airlines on Thursday, September 6th, the volume in puts, which is the short sale, betting against the stock, were 25 puts to every call. Normally it is two puts to every call. Given the current conditions of United -- and the volume was more than four times higher than normal. A similiar thing happened to American Airlines on Monday. And then in Europe, the three biggest companies that insure insurance companies -- they are called reinsurance companies -- they are being looked into now: Munich Re in Germany, Swiss Re, and AXA, which is a French company. Investigators in the securities commissions in England, France, Switzerland -- all across Europe, and in Japan and the United States are all looking into these trades hoping they can track the money back to Osama Bin Laden's group.

HEMMER: Interesting story. Allan Dodds Frank, thank you very much. We will hear more. Now the latest on the FBI's investigation at this time. Word today that FBI investigators went to a flight school in the state of oklahoma two weeks before the terrorist attacks here in New York City. CNN's Eileen O'Connor watching this now in Washington. Eileen, what more do we know?

EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, FBI Director Robert Mueller repeatedly said his agency was not aware of a connection between associates of Osama Bin Laden and flight training in the United States.


ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: The fact that there were a number of individuals that happened to receive training at flight schools here is news, quite obviously. If we had understood that to be the case, we would have -- perhaps one could have averted this.


O'CONNOR: CNN has confirmed that the FBI was at Airman Flight School in norman, oklahoma, two weeks before the terrorist attack, asking questions about Zachariah Sazawi (ph), who was detained after using a false passport at another flight school in Oklahoma, according to sources. Now, after the attack, the FBI went back to school turns out. It turns out two of the dead hijackers had toured the school in the past. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't even realize that they had been here. We were informed by the FBI that they were here. Yeah. We did not even know. They found a record of them at the Sooner Hotel and then it started jogging a memory.

O'CONNOR: In addition, it is the same flight school attended by another man accused of being part of another terrorist act allegedly orchestrated years ago by Bin Laden. There is other signals, too: a testimony this past year by government-protected witnesses, alleging Bin Laden paid for flight training for people in his organization.

And information passed from police in the Philippines to U.S. authorities -- the FBI in fact -- in 1995, by associates of Bin Laden, that there was a plot to hijack a commercial jet liner in the United States and crash it into targets like the CIA headquarters and the Pentagon. Officials in the Philippines say that everyone involved thought it was a too crazy to be believable.

Clearly, there is some compartmentalization of counterintelligence information among the U.S. bureaucracy, and that has perhaps been a factor in mudling all the signals that possibly could have been read much earlier. Bill.

HEMMER: Eileen O'Connor in Washington. Eileen, thank you. Now to Joie in Atlanta.

CHEN: Should Russia get involved in America's new war on terrorism? CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty on what role, if any, Moscow will play in U.S. military strategy. Also ahead, words of calm from the first lady. Her conversation with oprah on what parents should tell their kids. And the economic casualties of terror. What Congress is saying about a multibillion-dollar bailout for the airlines.


CHEN: The prospect of a U.S. attack on Afghanistan is raising concerns among Russia's government and its people. The former Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979 to back a leftist government there. But Moscow ended up fighting an unsuccessful, decade-long war. 15,000 Soviet troops died in it. Now, as CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty reports, Russians are debating what role, if any, they should play in the U.S. war on terrorism.


JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Russia already is fighting its own war against what it says are islamic terrorists in the breakaway republic of Chechnya, losing two generals and eight colonels just this week in a single helicopter attack. So why, some Russians ask, would they want to get involved in any U.S. military action even farther away? In the 1980s, Soviet troops fought a useless Cold War battle in the treacherous mountains of Afghanistan, finally pulling out after 10 long years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Russia is not going to come once more to Afghanistan to start a new -- a second, Afghan war. The lessons of the first Afghan war were very painful to Russia. They led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

DOUGHERTY: What's more, Russia has suffered its own wave of apartment bombings, which the Kremlin blames on terrorists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russian direct participating in American military action, providing its facilities or bases, or even taking part in some of the operations, would make Russia an object of possible new terrorist attacks.

DOUGHERTY: Russia, and its president, Vladimir Putin, are faced with a dilemma: how far should Moscow go in helping Washington's war on terrorism? Mr. Putin is speaking out forcefully against last Tuesday's attacks on the United States.

The head of Russia's FSB, the former KGB, is offering to share intelligence information on terrorists with the U.S. Standing firmly with Washington could score diplomatic points for Mr. Putin, and maybe even win him some economic benefits from the west. But should Russia offer Washington the use of its airspace? Or the former Soviet military bases and defense facilitates it still has in Central Asia?

Central Asian nations that border Afghanistan -- countries like Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzhstan -- already are barely able to contain their own radical Islamic movements, including the Taliban. They say they are ready to cooperate with any country -- including the United States -- to combat terrorism. But talk like that makes Moscow nervous.

Introducing U.S. military forces to Central Asia would place them squarely in Russia's back yard, and any military action could threaten to destabilize an already fragile region. Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.


CHEN: Ahead here, a man of comedy turns quite solemn. David Letterman, one week after the attacks on New York City. Also ahead, the price of protecting freedom. Will civil liberties be sacrificed?


HEMMER: First lady Laura Bush been quite public over the past week, and today she took her message to the Oprah Winfrey Show. She went there today reassuring America's families that she believes that America's parents should talk freely and openly with their children. She also wanted to reiterate that she is reassured by her husband's actions, the president, throughout this ordea.


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Those of us who are not in the hot seat -- who are not in a pressure point -- are feeling a sense of uneasiness and anxiety. But you feel none of that.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I mean of course I feel like everyone does, sadness and anxiety -- but I also feel -- I know that everything is being done to make sure America is safe. I know about that. So you know, because I know that, I feel reassured.


HEMMER: Laura Bush from "Oprah Winfrey" today. Also last night, the late-night comedy shows were back on the air. Not a whole lot of comedy here. But David Letterman came on last night talking about how proud he was of his own city, New York City, and how much confidence he has in the mayor, Rudy Giuliani. David Letterman from last night's program.


DAVID LETTERMAN, "LATE NIGHT" HOST: In this one small measure if you are like me, and you are watching and confused and depressed and irritated and angry and full of grief, and you don't know how to behave, and you are not sure what to do, and you don't really -- because we have never been through this before. All you had to do at any moment was watch the mayor. Watch how this guy behaved. Watch how this guy conducted himself. Watch what this guy did. Listen to what this guy said. Rudolph Giuliani is the personification of courage.


HEMMER: David Letterman from last evening. A completely different atmosphere. One that can be well understood here in New York City. Let's expand our discussion now and bring in CNN's Jeff Greenfield for a further look at this. And Jeff, if you see David Letterman last night, Dan Rather on as well. Broke into tears many points. We are starting to see a shift in the attention of America. We are moving away from things like Gary Condit, and really straight into the heart of some very, very serious issues.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN HOST: Two things. One is the idea -- what is David Letterman become famous for? Basically he is what elite critics call a postmodern guy. In other words, take nothing seriously. Anything a politician says is to be made fun of. Which is also true of a whole new genre. John Stewart's "Daily Show" succeeds because it says "this is all a scam."

Now we are in a position where these leaders are taking us into places that are as dangerous as any the country's ever been in, and I think you are seeing a whole media -- not just David Letterman -- grapple with how do we get away from year after year of an ironic, we- don't-take-it-seriously approach to everything.

HEMMER: You're putting news organizations in that category too.

GREENFIELD: News organizations, I think, yes. Because news organizations have decided, many of them -- I think the Cable News Network is actually a little different -- real news -- nobody cares any more. Nobody cares about politics. Nobody cares about foreign policy, God knows.

So let's package news with an entertainment scam. Let's turn our hour-long magazine shows with some exceptions, like 60 minutes. Let's turn them into basically entertainment. Let's put in music. Let's do true crime. Let's do eating at salad bar, death. And let's try to do a lot of celebrities, preferably scandalized celebrities.

I think a lot of people are looking now in the media particularly and saying, we can't do this anymore, you know, the life of the country's at stake. And I think it's going to be very tricky moving from this kind of nothing matters, relaxed, there's no big issues left to saying now you really have to pay attention. You have to take stuff seriously.

HEMMER: I've used a phrase from fluff news to tough news, but this is about as tough as it gets.

GREENFIELD: Yes, and I think that's actually a pretty good headline for what I think a lot of organizations are groping toward. The question is, you know, we've also been feeding the public. It's a vicious cycle. The public is telling us, has been telling us, we're bored with important stuff. And the news media and entertainment said, "OK, we'll give you other stuff. You know, the real crisis we'll show you is "Survivor," "Fear Factor."

You want to call something "Fear Factor?" That has a very different ring today. And that's going to take all of us, the public and the media, some time I think to find our legs in this whole new world.

HEMMER: That appetite was fed a bit, too.


HEMMER: As you point out. Jeff, thanks. We'll see you tomorrow, OK?

Still to come here, the military readies its big guns, and it readies its troops at this time. When we come back on America's new war, a look at what's underway, and how covert operations may fit into this plan. Back after this.


CHEN: Now let's get the latest updates in America's new war on terrorism. The search continues for survivors in New York. The mayor Rudy Giuliani now warns that the likelihood of recovering anyone else alive from this devastation is in his words "very, very small." Giuliani says the estimated death toll from last Tuesday's attack stands at 218 confirmed dead. More than 5,400 people though are still missing.

Officials at the Pentagon have revised the death toll there to 189. That comes after one person died earlier today from injuries suffered in the attack. And on the investigation, Attorney General John Ashcroft says officials are looking into the possibility now that the conspirators may have planned to takeover more than the four commercial jets they did get. The FBI has a manhunt underway for 185 people, individuals it says may have information about the attacks. At least 49 people are in federal custody and are being questioned.

In Afghanistan, Taliban's religious leaders are to meet to decide the fate of suspected terrorist Osama Bin Laden, who's the prime suspect in the attacks. The United States is demanding that the Taliban hand over Bin Laden.

Also today, more woes to report for the nation's airline industry. Sources tell CNN that United Airlines will cut at least 20,000 jobs. That is 20 percent of its work force. United is just the latest of several major airlines to cut its workforce since the terror attacks. And Wall Street did find some stability today, after yesterday's record stock tumble. The Dow closed down about 17 points. Nasdaq fell about 24.5 points -- Bill.

HEMMER: Joie, throughout this entire ordeal, there has been talk and strategy, formulated and speculated upon for how the U.S. military may or may not respond at this time. There was some movement though on this front today.

To the Pentagon now and CNN's Jamie Mcintyre, in this front. Jamie, hello.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill Hemmer, hello, good evening. First of all, U.S. officials tell CNN that the military planning for possible future military action is still in the planning stage, according to a senior U.S. official. Pentagon sources say that no military action can be taken until better intelligence is assembled about a range of terrorist organizations, including Al-Quaida, the group headed by accused terrorist kingpin Osama Bin Laden.

Sources say that the first military action would likely be an extraction mission performed by U.S. special forces, troops, covered by air power and air strikes to cover their insertion to try to capture or kill a terrorist leader such as Bin Laden.

But Pentagon officials say high end options, such as cruise missile strikes against high value targets in countries that harbor terrorists are still on the table, something that was made clear by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today.


DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The United States of America has been savagely attacked by terrorists. Those terrorists live and work and function and are fostered and financed and encouraged, if not just tolerated, by a series of countries on this globe. And we are saying that we think that is striking directly at the way of life of the American people. And that we intend to find ways to alter that behavior.


MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, even routine military deployments are taking on new significance. The U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt will be deploying tomorrow in its regular deployment out of Norfolk, Virginia. The families will be coming down to see the carrier off. This time, they'll have an idea that their sailors may be headed into harm's way.

The Pentagon won't say exactly where the aircraft carrier is going. Normally, this carrier would go to the Mediterranean to relieve a carrier on duty there -- Bill.

HEMMER: Jamie Mcintyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks. Back to Joie now in Atlanta.

CHEN: Bill, thanks.

We are hearing a lot of talk about commando raids as part of the war against terrorism. Joining us now from Tampa, is Colonel Mike Fenniger, whose U.S. Army retired served as director of intelligence for the U.S Special Operations command.

Colonel, appreciate your being with us. You know, the emphasis that has been made from the administration is on intelligence, intelligence, intelligence. And this does imply some sort of covert special operations. What can special operations offer?

MIKE FENNIGER, COLONEL, ARMY: Well, special operations is the natural response to a threat that is involved in asynchronous warfare. The terrorists basically hit us with suicide bombers. And they think that we're going to find it difficult to respond with tanks and missiles and airplanes and things of that kind.

The special operations forces are unique human beings. They're among the most qualified and capable soldiers in anybody's army, airmen also, navy seals. And these people have the capability to operate in small units and do the kinds of things that are necessary in this type of warfare. They can collect intelligence. They can illuminate targets for other weapons systems. They can conduct -- direct action missions. And they can be used as earlier suggested to extract targets from a denied area.

CHEN: You can go after the bad guy, in other words in place where other people cannot be. I wonder though. It seems that special operations in this case would have to somehow infiltrate. And if you'll forgive me, I don't know how else to say this, but those guys are not going to look like they came from the neighborhood.

FENNIGER: Well, the idea of infiltrating them of course is that you operate them in secret. You don't advertise where you're going to put them or how you're going to get them there. And when they arrive, they will basically go to ground and do things like night operations and things like that. Most of them will not be necessarily mixing with the civilian population.

That's not necessarily how they operate, although they could do things like that as well. But the difficulty that you run into is that these people are going to go in secret. They're going to do whatever it's necessary to do and get out. And they're not going to be easy to get in, but they're going to be a lot easier to get into a denied area than any kind of larger force.

CHEN: We have talked quite a bit on this network about the Russian Soviet involvement in Afghanistan in the '80s. And I'm wondering if there is anything particular that you think special ops forces would be looking at in terms of the Russian experience as they consider Afghanistan now?

FENNIGER: Well, we would probably be going back and reviewing the activities of the Soviet equivalent of our special operations forces, the (INAUDIBLE), and how they operated in the Afghanistan environment in those days for whatever lessons learned we could probably find from all of that.

CHEN: Can you tell me something about what these people would do in the sense that -- I mean, would they be people going in alone? Would they travel heavily armed? Is the idea that they go in -- these are not members that would be going in, in tanks for example?

FENNIGER: Absolutely. These people will go in small groups. They'll be lightly armed. They will use stealth and agility and communications to overcome the kinds of difficulties that they have. And they're terribly dependent on having good intelligence to work from. Without good intelligence, special operations or any operations for that matter, are not going to be very successful in this kind of an environment.

CHEN: And could be relied on for intelligence as well. Colonel Fenniger, thank you very much for your insight today.

FENNIGER: You're very welcome.

CHEN: Federal officials are considering a $24 billion dollar bailout. When we come back, the plan to keep the airlines from going under.


HEMMER: Again, a week after the terrorist attacks, the U.S. airline industry facing mounting troubles. Costly airport closures, security upgrades, and fewer passengers have cost huge sums of money. The industry already is struggling before the attacks of last Tuesday.

Also in a bid to increase safety in the skies all across the country, the federal government making a move to put armed marshals on board airliners. The FAA starting to train new marshals, while plain clothes guards are being called up immediately.

Also, the airline troubles affecting jobs in a number more today. It was announced earlier that United Airlines joins a growing list of major carriers laying off workers in the aftermath of the attacks. Sources tell CNN about 20,000 United employees will be affected. Also, the head of Delta Airlines says over the next two years, the airlines, the major carriers, could need as much as $24 billion before they can get on firm financial footing.

To CNN's Patty Davis, where we're talking about a lot of jobs, a lot of money and more details tonight. Patty, hello.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, new details on the fact that Congress and the White House are near an agreement on a $15 billion bailout package, that according to administration and congressional sources. Certainly good news for the airlines of the latest news of the bad news coming from it looks like United Airlines today.

Sources familiar with the company saying that United plans to announce job cuts as early as this week to the tune of 20,000. It's the latest airline then that would be cutting jobs. Also announced over the weekend, Continental Airlines saying that it would cut 12,000 jobs. U.S. Airways saying yesterday 11,000 jobs.

That on top of American and Northwest, saying that they expect job cuts this week as well. The industry saying that it is in dire straits. And CEOs from the airlines, as well as the cargo airlines, came to Capitol Hill today. They lobbied on Capitol Hill, as well as lobbied the Bush administration, at the White House and the Transportation Department.

The industry said that it has lost billions since the terrorist hijackings last week, and says the entire industry could become insolvent in the next 90 days without help.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no question that this industry has suffered enormous financial damage via this terrible situation. In the last three of the four days last week we had almost no revenue. And we would anticipate that in the next few days revenue would probably be operating at no more than 40 to 50 percent of normal. And with the heavy fixed costs in this industry, there is no way in the long term that our industry could survive with those levels.


DAVIS: Now, in fact, Continental CEO, sources say, told members of Congress today that his airline could face bankruptcy within the next 15 days. Bill?

HEMMER: Patty Davis in Washington. Joie?

CHEN: Ahead here, Bill, American Muslims speaking out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our stand is absolutely clear on this issue. We can't accept cowards attacks on civilians. We will never support them, justify them, condone them, or even explain them.


CHEN: A community facing uncertain times. Appeals for unity.

(COMMMERCIAL BREAK) CHEN: The FBI has opened at least 40 hate crime investigations. In the aftermath of last week's terrorism, American Muslim groups are reiterating their fears that anti-Islamic sentiment will lead to more such crimes. And they are thanking the Bush administration for its willingness to prosecute them.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Muslims appreciate very much, on the other hand, the statements made by President Bush, Colin Powell, Ashcroft, who very vigorously and straightforwardly asked the American community if not directed the whole American society to stand as one, and not to condemn the Muslims or backlash against them.


CHEN: Several hundred Muslims are believed to have been killed in last week's terror attacks. Federal grand jury's been convened in a New York City suburb to investigate the attacks on the World Trade Center. Last week's assaults have also sparked fears that the United States might experience an erosion of its civil liberties and its Democratic rights, as the nation tries to combat terrorism.

For more on this issue, we're joined by CNN legal analyst Roger Cossack. Roger, first talk to us about this notion of a grand jury already meeting, already considering evidence. What is it doing and who is it looking at?

ROGER COSSACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as our viewers know, grand juries are secret and we're not allowed to know who the evidence is, what evidence they're hearing, and who the witnesses are that will be testifying. But we can imagine, you know, this is under the traditional notions of criminal justice that these people are being arrested and held. And there are time limits. And grand juries have to hear evidence and decide whether or not there's going to be indictments.

We have people that have been arrested as material witnesses. The law says we just can't hold them forever. So it is not surprising that there's a grand jury that is investigating, that will be hearing evidence, and that will be deciding whether or an indictment is going to come down. And we'll know when, when they decide.

CHEN: You know these traditional notions of justice, at a very abnormal time. And that brings us to the question of civil liberties. You know, I was reading I think it was "The New York Times" over the weekend. And somebody had mapped out, if you wanted to secure Midtown Manhattan, what would you do.

Well, you put a camera on every corner. You'd put a guard station on every third corner.


CHEN: This would change the landscape. And I'm wondering if that is the future and where that leads civil liberties in this country. COSSACK: Well I think a lot of people are wondering that kind of thing. And one of the things we've heard from Attorney General Ashcroft is that we have not heard a suggestion, that he is going to ask us to give up a great deal of our civil liberties. He has asked for an extension of the ability to wiretap individuals, rather than regular phones, but he hasn't said the standard for getting a wiretap should be any less.

People realize, and I think what you said is true, that if there's really no true way to have security in a free system, unless everyone wants to be accounted for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And I just don't think that's what's going to happen here. On the other hand, do I think that there -- we are going to be subject to a lot more searches? Do I think there are going to be cameras in businesses? Do I think that there are going to be cameras and banks and places like that, where we are photographed? I think the answer to that is probably yes.

CHEN: More traditional notions of justice and the issue racial profiling. We're just hearing from American Muslim community. And they have come every day and said, "Look, we're being targeted. We're being picked out of the crowd. And all of us would condemn that or the vast majority would condemn that. This notion of racial profiling, outside of the broad community and the police issues, talk to us about that.

COSSACK: Racial profiling has never been acceptable in this country. And we've read about police departments that have gotten into trouble for doing it. The notion of racial profiling, that is, arresting or detaining someone strictly because of what they look like is just unacceptable.

Now on the other hand, if there are -- if there is evidence, reasonable evidence, probable cause evidence that goes along with what someone looks like, that's something else. But the notion of just merely detaining someone or arresting someone merely because of what they look like will never be allowed.

Now look, in the past, we've known situations where police have stopped certain ethnic groups on a pretext, merely just because they believed that this ethnic group perhaps was more susceptible to crime than others. In this case, obviously, Middle Easterners will come under scrutiny, but not just for racial profiling alone.

CHEN: Our CNN legal analyst, Roger Cossack. Thanks for being with us, Roger -- Bill.

HEMMER: Joie, here in New York City, the city that never sleeps, is a city in mourning. When we when we come back here, how New Yorker's are coping with tragedy.


HEMMER: Let me take you now further west here, way west in state of California where CNN's Paul Vercammen is at Pendleton Marine Base there. Paul, I understand there are exercises at least scheduled out there. Tell us what's happening.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in just a few moments here, Lima Company from the third battalion 5th Marine regiment, this is a helicopter company, is going to go through a live ammunition drill. And while we can't go so far as to say that this is specifically targeted for some let's say operation in the Middle East, we can say that this is a helicopter unit.

They are a group of soldiers who would be equipped to let's say knock out bunkers. And with me now is Captain Clark Watson, the company commander.

Talk about Lima Company and what you will go through today. And what you guys might be able to do, let's say, against a dug imposition?

CLARK WATSON, LIMA COMPANY: Well, today, what we're going to do is go through a live fire evolution with a Marine rifle squad. This is a Marine rifle squad like you'd find in any company in the Marine Corps. And they will be attacking a bunker, up to our north. And to destroy it, they'll be using support by fire from 240 Gulf machine guns and the suppressive fire of their own M-16's and squad automatic weapons.

VERCAMMEN: Now in lights of what happened with the Trade towers, with the Pentagon, characterize the mood of these men.

WATSON: Well, they're focused on their training right now. They're -- on our all time of course, our hearts and sorrows go out to the families of those people who are injured and killed in the Trade Centers, but our focus is on our job itself. If we don't, then we're not being the 100 percent Marines that we can.

VERCAMMEN: We thank you so much for taking time-out, captain. Reporting live from Camp Pendleton, California. I'm Paul Vercammen. Now back to Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: Thank you very much. Back here in New York City now, many people talk about moving on. but for so many, it is much easier said than done. Tonight CNN's Maria Hinojosa on the pain that so many New Yorkers are now feeling.


MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New Yorkers are usually grumpy, in a hurry, pushy. Today we are a city of sadness, sad faces, sad reminders, sad places.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's absolutely every part of your body aches. You hurt mentally. You hurt emotionally. I, personally, I just had such pains, like stomach pains, since it started, just like perpetual.

HINOJOSA: Total strangers comfort one another. A hug means so much more, it seems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's so sad. They -- excuse me. It's like you can see in their faces that they really lost somebody.

HINOJOSA: Because as much as we would like, we can't seem to move on just yet. Everywhere you turn, it's the missing that stare back at you.

Do you find yourself crying sometimes, when you never even expect yourself to be crying?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never thought I would. But once in a while, it gets down deep and grabs a hold of you. You got to just fight through it and keep going.

HINOJOSA: At the playground, the children seem happy, but even here the grimness seeps through.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See, everyone's so subdued. But yet, people are so kind, you know. They're -- everyone's walking around and very quiet, not really interacting too much with each other. But you know, you glance at somebody. And somebody gives you a look. And you know you are thinking the same thing. So there's kind of a support.

HINOJOSA: It's been a week since the tragedy. The streets are filling up. We walk the streets together, but still, our sadness is our own.

I remember the exact date and time of the first time I smiled since Tuesday. It was Friday for a few seconds. I'm waiting for the next smile. Soon, I hope.

Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.


HEMMER: Unfortunately, this one is going to take years, many, many years. I'll see you again tomorrow from here in New York City. Until then, I'm Bill Hemmer.

CHEN: And I'm Joie Chen at CNN Center in Atlanta. Another part of the nation's big story right now is its economy. We move forward now, with Lou Dobbs MONEYLINE.



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