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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL

CNN HOTLINE: Nation Prepares for War

Aired September 22, 2001 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): New poll numbers show Americans marching in lockstep with their president as the nation moves towards war. While the military buildup continues in the Persian Gulf, Anti-American demonstrations rage across Pakistan.

Congress votes to bail out the airlines to the tune of $15 billion. And Hollywood joins arms with the big four television networks in a star studded evening to raise money for the victims of the attack on America.

CNN's HOTLINE is coming up next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: Good evening from New York City, I'm Jack Cafferty, it's 12:00 midnight in the east. The CNN HOTLINE number is 800-310- 4CNN. It is a Friday at the end of one of, arguably the longest and toughest weeks this country has gone through in a long time.

Over the next couple of hours, we'll talk about that great star studded telethon. Actor Dennis Franz will join us. We'll address airline problems, travel fears and the fear of fear its self and the paranoia and anxiety itself that has gripped this entire country. We'll be joined by our CNN correspondents around the world. But first, as always, we'll begin with our friend Garrick Utley, who has the latest news developments. Good evening, Gary.

GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening Jack, here at this midnight hour here in New York along the East Coast of these United States. First of all, we know that American military units on the air and the ground and at sea are moving out towards that region, the Persian Gulf near Afghanistan. But the real question now is, which allies on the ground can the United States count on to provide base and that kind of support.

Well, the United States is already holding talks with Pakistan to discuss which of that country's military facilities might be available to the U.S. to help out. And diplomatic sources are telling CNN now that a Pentagon led delegation leaves this weekend on a mission to assess potential sites in that region. They will not be very easy talks. One of them is a former B-2 bomber facility in the city of Quetta, one of the cities where anti U.S. demonstrations have taken place on Friday. Three people died nationwide in Pakistan in the violence. But the turnout for the demonstrations was smaller than what many had originally expected or even feared.

Let's come back now to the United States and leave Friday night. The House followed the Senate's decision earlier in the day and passed a $15 billion package to help the airline industry, which has suffered crippling losses due to last week's four shutdowns, plus decreased passenger volume and the weakening economy.

In New York City, officials say so far the confirmed death toll now is 251. That number really isn't changing much from day to day and night to night, sadly.

Friday, authorities announced that a former assistant FBI director was among the dead, John P. O'Neill had recently left his post as a terrorism expert for the agency take over security operation at the Twin Towers, where he met terrorism on September 11.

More than 6000 people still are listed as missing, but New York's mayor says there is no plan to speed up removal of the wreckage even if hopes of finding survivors seem to be fading.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI, NEW YORK: Let's assume we get to a point beyond which the experts say there is no chance that someone can survive -- we're not quite there yet -- but let's say we get there, we're still going to do the operation the same way. We are still going to remove things carefully. We're still going to be sensitive to making certain that we find as many bodies as we can, as many human remains as we can.

And then if some miracle occurred, well we would be there to do that. So there isn't, it's not some major change in the operation, at least not in the foreseeable future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UTLEY: Outset, music, flags patriotism and sports fever. And even better news for New Yorkers, the first game since the attacks ended, and a win for the Mets. They beat the Atlanta Braves 3-2. Flags waving, good news for baseball fans, at least for the Mets fans.

One little footnote in the news today, we all know, we don't have to go into what happened on the stock markets this week. The Dow was down -- what -- 14 percent. It's been the worst week in terms of the point drop since the great depression. But there's a little bit of good news we want to point out to you.

You know this thing; this is a dollar bill. What does this dollar bill mean, Jack? Well, it means that while the stock market is going down, this dollar, the U.S. currency hasn't been doing bad or not as bad as the markets. When the terrorists struck, the dollar did take a dip. It's been lately very strong, of course. Today, though, the dollar started coming back up.

What does that mean? Well, we can't predict the future of course, but it does seem to mean that people overseas now have a bit more faith in the American future and the economy than perhaps some investors have here in the United States, given the state of the dollar. Jack.

CAFFERTY: I also understand that some of that stock market selling was attributable to foreign investors, a knee jerk reaction perhaps, pulling their investments out of the United States in the first few days after that incident. And there is some sense that given the passage of just a little bit of time, and the realization not unlike the people in the currency markets, that perhaps this is the safest place in the world to invest, that money will find its way back here.

UTLEY: It is the biggest economy, the strongest economy, and in the end that's the magnet that pulls it in, I think.

CAFFERTY: You bet thanks Gary. All right, out in Las Angeles and here in New York, tonight, a bit of a combined effort, an unprecedented effort, if you will. Are we going to Dennis Franz?

No, we're going to do Major Garrett first. All right, we're going to go to Dennis Franz in a couple of minutes. They had a big telethon out in Las Angeles, it was carried by all of the networks. And actually it hasn't been seen yet on the left coast, but first we're going to get the latest from the White House, the rundown on the President's day from Major Garrett

How you doing, Major?

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good Jack, how are you? Well the President's day, kind of a day after the big day, of course. The President's speech, well received, according to the flash polls taken. White House officials feel very good about the sense of unity, not only in the country. The sense of support the President's speech received, but again the unity being displayed in Congress.

A package for the airline industry is moving smartly through the House and Senate today. The White House made it very clear they would like to see action on that package by the end of the week. They're very satisfied that Congress is moving in that direction, has moved in that direction.

The President in Camp David this weekend, he will convene a meeting via teleconference later on today, Saturday here on the East Coast, with his National Security Council. And on Sunday, a ceremony at the White House raising the America flag at Camp David from half staff, where it has been since September 11, to full staff. A recognition that the time for mourning, at least officially is over. Time again, to return to some degree of routine across the country. Jack. CAFFERTY: Thanks very much, Major Garrett at the White House.

This afternoon I happened to flip on the television set at home in time to see a White House news briefing conducted by Presidential spokesman, Ari Fleischer. Periodically polls are done in this country that don't reflect particularly well on the news media. These are the first three questions that were asked today at that White House news briefing.

The first one was: During the campaign, George Bush said he would never commit military troops without a proper exit strategy. And the reporter wanted to know what the exit strategy was for this. That was the first question. They haven't entered anywhere yet.

The next question is, and this is absolutely true, the next question at the White House press briefing, "How will we know when this is over?" That was question number two.

And the third question, and then I had to turn it off because I couldn't take any more. The third question was, "The Taliban is demanding evidence before they would consider the release of Osama Bin Laden. Why don't you present the evidence you have to the American public?"

And the media wonders why the public doesn't like it some times. I mean -- enough said.

Celebrities and rock stars out together tonight to put on a telethon in New York and Las Angeles. They raised a lot of money for the victims of the terrorist bombings.

Actor Dennis Franz, the star of "NYPD Blue," and a former Vietnam veteran was a part of that event, unprecedented in many ways. It was broadcast by all the networks. It was put together very quickly, it was a huge cooperative effort. Not only just on the part of the television community, but on the part of the Hollywood community as well.

Dennis is joining us now from Los Angeles. Nice to see you. How did it go out there tonight?

DENNIS FRANZ, ACTOR: Well I have to tell you, it's quite a memorable evening. My head is still swimming with some of the events of the night. It was really great to see the stars of film, television, the music world coming together not as stars, not as big celebrities but as coming together as Americans.

And every single bit of the two hour telethon, beginning with Bruce Springsteen's very moving song, started the evening on a very emotional night. And it kept the same tone throughout the entire evening. Tears were shed over and over again.

You had people like Muhammed Ali who came up and really touched the hearts of many of us. It's certainly something that is going to linger in my consciousness for a long time. CAFFERTY: Any idea, Dennis, yet, of how much money was raised tonight? I saw Jack Nicholson on the phone taking contributions and pledges from viewers. That was quite an event.

FRANZ: Yeah, it was pretty phenomenal to see Jack Nicholson, Al Pacino, Brad Pitt, Meg Ryan, big stars that were answering the phones just simply taking money that was being sent in. And the tally that I heard, when we left, the unofficial count was $116 million at that point.

CAFFERTY: Wow.

FRANZ: That was before it is aired here in the West Coast.

CAFFERTY: Yeah, western United States hasn't even seen it yet, so $116 million and half the country to go. How is this series of events going to effect the projects in Hollywood that get green- lighted?

You know there has been that criticism that some of the movies contain too much violence, gratuitous and the other kind. And that something like this may in fact change the way producers approach projects. What's your thought? I mean, you've been around town out there for a while. What do you think?

FRANZ: Well I can certainly comment on the television aspect of it. I know on our show, "NYPD Blue," we've had to go back and look at a couple of episodes that we've already taped for the season, and we've had to refilm some scenes to replace some of the dialogue that we had, some of the events that took place. We had to rethink it, to acknowledge what has taken place since we originally filmed it.

As far as the film world goes, with out question there is going to be more of a consciousness regarding how we are viewed throughout the world. And the content of the movies that are being made, I'm sure, it's going to be strongly effected.

CAFFERTY: There was a piece in the newspaper, yesterday and another one today, that there had been a very high level meeting that occurred between the heads of the major studios and the FBI concerning some evidence the FBI had that possibly one of the big studios was targeted for attack by the terrorists. And there were reports of beefed up security on all the movie lots and the studios around town. Have you seen any evidence of that?

FRANZ: There, without question was more security, very welcome security at our studio. And that was Twentieth Century Fox. I know that the other major studios also have beefed up securities. It is not as easy to enter the lots any more. People are certainly at a heightened sense of security everywhere.

But, yes, we heard those rumors today. It didn't stop anyone from going to work. I think we are acting with confidence that we are being watched over

CAFFERTY: We've got 30 seconds. Did you happen to catch the President's speech last night?

FRANZ: You know, I've caught bits and pieces of it, I was working, I was unable to get the whole thing. So I am hoping it is going to air in its entirety some time, then I can see it from beginning to end. I caught pieces of it. He said many of the things I'd wanted to hear.

CAFFERTY: Yeah, he was terrific last night, in a word.

FRANZ: Yeah.

CAFFERTY: Appreciate you being with us, Dennis, thank you.

FRANZ: Thank you.

CAFFERTY: And pass along our congratulations and thanks to all of your colleagues. $116 million and the show has yet to air on the West Coast. Dennis Franz of "NYPD Blue" joining us tonight from Las Angeles.

We're going to take a short break. We'll be back. The House and Senate voting on a $15 billion bailout package for the nation's airlines, what about travelers, vacation plans and the holidays. We're going to talk about that, take some of your calls. You are watching HOTLINE. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Welcome back, it's 12:16. I'm Jack Cafferty; you are watching HOTLINE out of New York City on a Friday night.

We have gotten a lot of calls this week on the program on the aviation industry and airplanes security. Is it safe to fly? What precautions should we take? What about the future of the industry itself, and what about travel plans that people may have had, and are trying to change as a result of the events that just happened. Pauline Frommer, the Executive of "Arthur Frommer's Budget Travel" and online and travel magazine. She joins me here in the studio in New York.

And David Field is with "Airline Business" magazine. He's been an aviation journalist for over 20 years, and joins us tonight from Washington, D.C.

David let me begin with you. Are the airlines going to make it?

DAVID FIELD, AIRLINE BUSINESS MAGAZINE: Most of them are. There will be casualties; there will be airlines that go into reorganization. There will be airlines that probably don't come out of re organization. They will make it. The question is how long it will take to make it? How long it will take to recover? What we have now is a patient that had the flue and now probably the patient has pneumonia and maybe something worse.

CAFFERTY: Yeah, the timing on this thing couldn't have been worse for the airlines and for this domestic economy either, which was teetering on the edge of recession before these attacks. The Senate passed this $15 billion bailout package today. The House, as I understand it is voting on it tonight; maybe they finished. What's in it, how much good will it do, what's your sense of where it is going to be needed most?

FIELD: The House passed it about 11:00 on my way over to the studio.

CAFFERTY: OK.

FIELD: It's $5 billion in outright cash to the airlines to be distributed on a very rational basis, basis of how many seats they have. The biggest airlines get the most. The rest of it is loan guarantees and other ways to make sure that the airlines can go back to Wall Street and get loans and credit.

As you say this is the worst time this could have happened. There was one airline, American West, an airline out in Phoenix, Arizona, that on the day of the attack was working on a credit -- routine refinancing credit. The attack came -- bingo -- negotiations stopped. The credit is not there; there is no place they can go. There is no place an airline with deep pockets can go except to itself.

When the airline officials came to Capitol Hill on Wednesday, they held up a letter from Morgan Stanley, one of the biggest mortgage bankers in New York, saying, there is no credit, there is no where you can go. So they turned to the backer of last resort, the Federal Government.

CAFFERTY: Well the reason, of course, there is no credit is there are no passengers. People aren't flying. And they are afraid. I saw a poll where something in the neighborhood of just a third of the population surveyed felt it was safe to travel on an airplane as the entire population felt before these events happened. And so, there was obviously a huge fear factor.

The question is: How long is that likely to last, and can the airlines ride this out. Is $15 billion going to be enough?

FIELD: For some airlines it is not. I don't know how long it is going to last. If you look at previous crises. Look at the Persian Gulf just 10 years ago. Airlines came back pretty quickly. And I don't think we are going to see that this time.

Maybe in 12 months we'll be back to where we were right before 911. But that was a pretty bad place. We were in an airline recession. The best customers, the business travelers, were staying away. Staying away very aggressively. And the leisure travelers, as I think Pauline will tell you, were getting very, very good deals and not contributing a heck of a lot to the bottom line. If we get back to that sick level in 12 months, that will be good.

CAFFERTY: All right, let me take a call. Walter is on the phone in California, and then we'll talk to Pauline Frommer. Hi Walter, how are you doing? WALTER: Hi Jack.

My question is, having been raised in Montreal at the airports in Montreal and in Canada, you can't get to your boarding area or get to your gate without having a ticket first. And without being checked by security guard before getting to an area where you are going through metal detectors again.

And in the states, we're allowed to pick up whoever we want at any gate, any bordering area by just, you know, throwing in our keys and going through a metal detector.

I could never understand that safety of that. In Europe you can't do it.

CAFFERTY: No, that's true, and my guess is, you're not going to be able to do it here much longer. Stephanie in Louisiana, good evening.

STEPHANIE: Hello.

My question is everybody says they are so smart. I live in Columbia, Louisiana. And what I don't understand is, when that first plane took that sharp curve, why didn't anybody notify, anybody in the towers, notify anybody?

CAFFERTY: Apparently something called the transponders had been turned off, as I understand it. The transponder is what allows the flight controllers, the air traffic controllers to identify what plane it is. Without the transponder functioning, it just becomes a little tiny blip on a radar screen. And there was some confusion as that plane suddenly veered off course. Nobody knew exactly what it was, because the transponder wasn't functioning.

By the time they figured it out, that plane had hit the World Trade Center, the second one was on the way. They did scramble jet fighters over New York, but they got here a few minutes too late.

Let's talk to our other guest about airline travel. Pauline Frommer, the executive editor of "Arthur Frommer's Budget" both online and the magazine.

PAULINE FROMMER, BUDGET TRAVEL MAGAZINE: I'm contributing editor on the magazine.

CAFFERTY: Oh, I'm sorry, OK, contributing editor. What kind of telephone calls and e-mails are you getting from people in light of what has happened?

FROMMER: Well a lot of people are wondering if they can get a refund or at least rebook. And it is getting harder and harder if not impossible. As we all know, the airlines are hemorrhaging money. And all but Southwest have stopped giving refunds entirely. Southwest is giving refunds to people who were supposed to fly in September, no questions asked.

CAFFERTY: Is that legal, for them to just refuse to refund your money, if in fact they canceled the route that you had planned to fly?

FROMMER: Well if you were supposed to fly on the days that planes were canceled, then they will refund. But I'm talking about people who wish to travel now.

CAFFERTY: For general policy, right.

FROMMER: And these were all non refundable tickets, so they are sticking to the letter of the ticket. So yes it is legal what they are doing.

CAFFERTY: What kind of sense are you getting about people's willingness to travel. We have a holiday season coming up one of the busiest travel times of the year. Then we go right into the wintertime, which for us in the northeast is a huge vacation season, people going to the Caribbean and here and there to get warm and get away from the snow. Usually a lot of that is booked way in advance.

FROMMER: Sure, you won't have to worry about that this year. You will be able to probably get very good deals around the holidays. I'm getting a lot of letters from people who say that they feel it is their patriotic duty to fly. And who are going to make the effort to fly. But there are probably just as many who are scared of flying.

CAFFERTY: I was going to say all these people are looking for refunds, is some of that because of fear?

FROMMER: Oh absolutely and many people are worrying about being stranded overseas if we do go into a war. I think a lot of it will depend on what President Bush's actions are, as to how fast the airlines and the travel industry does recover.

CAFFERTY: David Field, you're talking about some of these airlines are going to make it and some aren't. Do you have any sense of which ones are positioned economically to survive this?

FIELD: It is unfair and unkind to name names, but let me name some names.

US Airways is an airline we are going to have to be watching very closely over the next couple of weeks. It is an airline that already was in financial dire straights. As most of the viewers remember, it was going to merge into United Airlines. The merger fell apart in July. The airline really didn't have a backup plan. It's been working on one since then, a survival plan.

And this week, at the shareholders meeting, US Airways Chairman Steve Wolf came out and said, we're not sure what we are going to do. We're not sure where we are going to get cash. And he mentioned the word, Chapter 11; he mentioned the word bankruptcy.

America West out in Phoenix, we're going to have to look at. Northwest Airlines up in Minneapolis. A fine airline, an airline that's doing a great deal, but an airline that always been hurt badly when you get into emergency situation like this. The only airline that is going to come out of this short term, healthy is Southwest. CAFFERTY: All right, I want you to think about if we may see some consolidation. I'm going to take a call from Wendy in Texas, and then we'll go back to David Field and get an answer on whether we are going to see some of the stronger airlines absorbing some of the weaker ones. Wendy, good evening.

WENDY: Good evening. I was wondering how this is going to effect other types of travel, like cruise lines, stuff like that. I have a sister who is planning to go on a cruise and I'm really concerned about ...

CAFFERTY: All right, Pauline, I was going to ask you about that anyway. What are you hearing from the cruise lines?

FROMMER: Well the cruise lines each lost about $25 million a piece in the week of the World Trade Center bombing. So they too are hurting. Norwegian Cruise Lines are going to allow people in the tri- state area to rebook with out penalty. Most of them are allowing service people to rebook and reschedule. But that's about it. They are taking a hard stance as well. I think they are terrified. And are not being very good with refunds right now. It's very hard.

CAFFERTY: What about prices? Have prices started to fall, yet? And do you expect that they will if they haven't?

FROMMER: Well prices always fall in the fall for Caribbean cruises and the like. And yes, we're seeing cruises of about $100 less than usual. And there is a major air sales going on right now which ends Monday. We're seeing cross country fares for $100 round trip.

CAFFERTY: Oh, wow.

FROMMER: Las Vegas to Las Angeles for $25 round trip.

CAFFERTY: The airlines can't make any money at those rates, can they?

FROMMER: But they are flying with 50 percent. I guess they figure any passengers is better than ...

CAFFERTY: Something is better than nothing.

FROMMER: And maybe the word will get out that it was a safe flight and that people did OK, and you know.

CAFFERTY: We'll continue our discussion of the airline industry, the travel industry. We've got to pause and do a little station break. It's 12:27, you are watching HOTLINE on CNN. We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Welcome back, time now to check the latest news headlines. For that, here's Garrick Utley. UTLEY: Thanks Jack, I just want to take a moment and follow up on that conversation about the airlines. We know the Congress this evening, or Friday evening, passed that $15 billion aid package. Well there is always small print in anything Congress does.

In fact, not all members of Congress know exactly what they voted for on Friday. To wit, in that small print, the U.S. Government, that is the American tax payer has the right to take shares or other security positions in the airlines receiving that aid. The legislation says this is necessary as collateral for the loan guarantees.

The question of course is, is this a wise thing to do? Does, or should the United States Government or should the U.S. Government be taking positions in those shares which are going southward.

Well one example, back in '79, remember, Jack, the Chrysler bailout? The government exercised the right to buy Chrysler shares of $13. In 1983 sold them for $22, the U.S. Government made a $300 million profit. Not a bad investment strategy. We'll see if it works this time too.

Here are some of the latest developments elsewhere resulting from the terrorist attacks. As the dig continues at the disaster site here in New York City, more arrests today. These outside of the United States.

In London, Scotland Yard arrested three men and one woman in connection with last week's attacks on the Trade Center, after raiding their homes there. Authorities did not say how they are linked to the case, specifically.

And elsewhere, Canadian police have detained a man from Yemen who was carrying three false passports aboard a flight from Germany to Chicago on September 11, which was diverted to Canada on that day, because of the attacks.

The U.S. is trying to get him extradited back to the United States. And today, Attorney General John Ashcroft toured the Twin Towers disaster site with FBI Director Robert Mueller, and vowed we will rebuild.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will recover and we will do everything we can from the position of the Justice Department to say that that recovery will not be complete until we understand the network's responsible for this, until we respond appropriately with Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UTLEY: The U.S. military buildup continues these days. The Pentagon is working on a second deployment order which would add more support aircraft to warplanes already ordered to the Persian Gulf and the Central Asian Regions. And more in the war of words over suspected terrorist Osama Bin Laden. Today in response to President Bush's demand to hand him over, Afghanistan's ruling Taliban said, nope, not without proof; evidence that he was involved in those terrorists attacks. And Taliban leaders warn that a United States strike against Afghanistan will prompt a holy war.

Also on Friday, European Union leaders met in an emergency session to show their total solidarity with the United States. Now how solid that solidarity is going to be, will see. If it does come to combat one day in or over Afghanistan itself.

And Jack, just you know the old saying, if you don't know history sometimes you relive it and sometimes you die from it. Just a little story that makes the point.

The United States may be fighting Afghanistan. The Soviet Union, you know what happened to them in the 1980s. The first to go in there was the World Power in the 19th century named Great Britain. Big empire, nobody could really stand up to them militarily. What happened? They marched their army into Afghanistan in 1838, took Kabul, the capitol, occupied it. The Afghans didn't like it, fought back. The British were forced to withdraw in 1842.

Now listen to this. In that withdrawal, there were 4500 British soldiers, the toughest soldiers in the world, European soldiers. 12,000 Afghans, camp followers, hangers on, people who wanted to get out of Afghanistan. Those 16,500 people, Jack, they came to a mountain pass. The Afghani tribesmen were waiting -- 16,499, according to historians were killed. One man, a British surgeon survived. A lesson to keep in mind. Jack.

CAFFERTY: They are tough people. You and I were talking a couple of nights ago about the Taliban, the ruling leaders in Afghanistan now are the remnants of the Freedom Fighters that were funded by the United States covertly in that long war against Russia. And money out of this country allowed those people to eventually drive the Russians from their homeland. Allowed them to seize power and look what we've created? Thanks Gary.

We're going to go to the Old Town section of Pasadena, California. That's where Paul Vercammen is standing by tonight. Hi Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jack how are you. You ought to be happy to see this sight. If you look around me, people out and about on the streets.

And as you discussed a lot in the last few days, the American consumers help to keep the economy alive. And if America is going to get through all this economically, of course, they are going to need people to get out and about and spend. Nevertheless people are concerned. When you come out here and talk to the people of Old Town.

I know, Eric you're from New Jersey. You had plans normally, someone like your self, living in California. You go home for Christmas. But how has that possibly changed for you?

ERIC: I'm not going back for Christmas this year. I have decided, in fact I was with my folks last week. I was supposed to fly home on Tuesday when this whole thing happened. And decided that I wasn't going to fly back for Christmas this year. Just until things kind of smooth out and see what happens.

VERCAMMEN: Well we thank you for your insights. There you have it from Eric, somebody who says they normally go back for Christmas, is not going to do it.

One thing, as we talk about these consumers, the Husanni (ph) family over here from La Canada did come out tonight, and they are having a nice meal and celebrating a birthday. We'll get to Leila's birthday in a second, but first Teresa. If you could tell me this, do you have concerns as a Californian and someone who flies internationally about getting on a plane in the near future?

TERESA: A little bit, but it is our security that I am really concerned with. If they change the way the airports are run, then maybe no I wouldn't be concerned. But I've never liked flying to begin with, but I have flown to other European countries and the security there is different from our security. It always made me nervous, going in and out of our airports. Because the security was never good enough, I thought.

VERCAMMEN: Well let's talk to your daughter, Leila. Leila, you are celebrating your 18th birthday, this is generally a great time in someone's 'life. When you get out and about and there is a chance to travel and see some things. What are your apprehensions as you look at what's happened here. What are you thinking about tonight?

LEILA: As in like, my birthday? What do I think about celebrating it?

VERCAMMEN: No, what we were talking about in terms of, let's just say that there was a trip for you possibly to Iran, who knows where? And now you are facing the prospects of a very different world.

LEILA: Well it just to me, it just is shocking. I don't, I mean it doesn't effect my every day life just yet, because right now I have just started college. And it is like, it is something it's a hard thing to think about. It's just shocking, I really don't know what to say about something that happened like this in my own lifetime.

VERCAMMEN: Well happy birthday and like a lot of people, you've expressed it very well. Leila doesn't know exactly what to say. And if you get that sense out there on the West Coast. People just can't quite put into words what they saw happen in New York. And of course they are concerned, very concerned.

But as we look around again, as I stated before, perhaps these folks that were brave enough to come on out will sort of keep spending and keep America afloat by not being daunted.

Reporting live from Old Town Pasadena, I'm Paul Vercammen. Now back to you Jack.

CAFFERTY: Yeah all right Paul, thanks very much. I was kidding my wife earlier. I said, you know when this is over they may give her a medal. I mean she is out there every day trying to keep this economy afloat, bless her heart. We're all proud of her. I have no money left at the end of the week, but she's out there doing her part, a real patriot. Paul Vercammen, Pasadena.

Mark's on the phone in California. Hello Mark.

MARK: John ...

CAFFERTY: John, OK, talk to you later. Bill in New Jersey, are you there?

BILL: Hello.

CAFFERTY: Hello how are you doing? Bill, Bill

MARK: Hi this is Mark.

CAFFERTY: Oh, this is Mark in California. I'm getting some bad information, Mark I apologize.

MARK: That's all right. Hey you know there was that little bit of, kind of, I'm not going to pay you back. You bought an advance ticket.

CAFFERTY: Yeah, we were just talking to Paulette (ph) about that -- Pauline rather.

MARK: You know, they canceled our ball game and I got my money back. They said, hey it won't work out for you. And Amtrak's going to become the vehicle of choice, because they're very cooperative. If the airlines don't want to cooperate that's OK.

Now I can't take the train to Europe. But I can take the train to Chicago. And if they could start building high speed rail, get me over there quick, cut my costs down, hey that's the way I go.

CAFFERTY: Yeah. The airlines will be hearing that. Let me go back to David Field, just to get him to touch, to check in on this. Until the airlines make the flying public believe that it is safe, they are going to have problems. I mean, they have got to address all of these security things. And to what degree do you think they are going to get it done in time to perhaps keep some of them from going out of business. Because that seems to be the key to this equation?

FIELD: Public confidence is indeed the key, but the question is whether or not it is the airlines that have to do the persuading of the public.

What we saw tonight in Capitol Hill is a very strong move toward eventually federalizing airport security. It's going to become a non- private function, It's going to become part of the federal government whether or not they are FAA employees or FAA contract employees. And for the airlines, the sooner that happens the better. And probably for public confidence, the sooner that happens the better.

One thing I've got to say though, just listening to all the callers talking about security, what you see is a lot less than what you get. The screener's only part of the whole security process and they are paid -- yeah, they're paid minimum wage. And the turnover is high and it is really a rough job. And I'm hoping that no matter who pays these people that they are paid more. That it is more professional, etc., etc.

But, remember that the people who committed these acts of terrorism got through, would have gotten through no matter how well the screeners did their jobs. Because they were carrying legal objects and legal items.

CAFFERTY: Somebody made the point last night on this program, David, a caller. And again, we've gotten some tremendous ideas over the last seven or eight days.

She called and she said, look if you do what El Al has done with the flight deck, which is to secure it behind steel doors so that it is absolutely impenetrable, the flight crew will not come out under any circumstances.

Suddenly there is no reason to hijack any plane, any place for any reason. Because you can't do anything with it. You can kill the people in the cabin, you can do all those things, but you are not going to be able to commandeer the controls of the airplane if you can't get to the flight deck. Does that make any sense?

FIELD: It does and it doesn't. Bear in mind that an Israeli flight crew is going to have a far more closed security prone mentality than most U.S. flight crews, even though most U.S. flight crews have a military background. We are an open society. Israel by necessity is not. We are a society that believes in a porous, open framework. That's probably going to change. I don't know how rapidly it is going to change.

Let me, though, get back to, if I could, to the point about the screeners. No matter how good a job they do, no matter how much they are paid, unless they know who to look for, unless they are plugged in to the intelligence community, unless there is real cooperation between the intelligence community -- between this new Intelligence Czar and civil aviation security -- it doesn't matter how much you pay them, it doesn't matter how well you train them. And that's one of the lessons I think we have to learn from the Israelis.

CAFFERTY: All right, let me ask Pauline Frommer, what's special about September 25, which is what, three, four days away?

FROMMER: Sure, well September 25 is two weeks after the bombing and most of the airlines are granting an amnesty of sorts to people who were supposed to travel on or before September 25, in that they are allowing them to change without these outrageous change fees. Most airlines now charge $150 to change a ticket.

CAFFERTY: Right. FROMMER: But they are going to be allowing passengers to change. Unfortunately they've put end dates on when you can change to, and that varies by the airlines. Some airline will allow you to change the ticket, but will say you have to fly by say mid November. Others are being more generous and taking it to March.

CAFFERTY: What do you tell people who call and say they can't get the refund you are talking about. You said it is perfectly legal for the airlines to deny the refund under most circumstances.

FROMMER: Yeah.

CAFFERTY: I mean, are people just stuck, they just have to eat the ticket?

FROMMER: Most people are stuck. There is one travel insurance company called Travel Guard, which is -- it's about 30 percent of the market, it's the biggest one. And they have done something really wonderful. They are allowing all passengers to cancel and they are not making them prove that they were in peril, which is usually the thing with insurance.

CAFFERTY: That's the...

FROMMER: And they are giving reimbursement. So people who bought retail insurance from Travel Guard will get their money back. Most everyone else won't.

CAFFERTY: What do you hear from the tour operators? I mean, tours to Europe are, that's a huge industry in this country.

FROMMER: Yeah, the tour operators are in trouble. I mean, I think that they are hoping to come back. Some of them have been telling me that they have been getting a couple of new bookings, that they are starting to trickle in. I don't know if they are telling me this because they want me to stay this on TV.

CAFFERTY: Perhaps.

FROMMER: But we can only hope. The dollar remains strong. It is still a wonderful time to go to Europe unless we go to war.

CAFFERTY: Yeah.

FROMMER: And there is no way to know.

CAFFERTY: What are going to be the most popular destinations based on what's just happened? Is that going to change?

FROMMER: I think a lot of people are going to travel domestically.

CAFFERTY: Stay here.

FROMMER: Yeah.

CAFFERTY: Maybe go to Mexico or Canada ...

FROMMER: And perhaps to the Caribbean and Canada.

CAFFERTY: But same basically in this hemisphere.

FROMMER: For the next couple of months, yeah, that's the feeling.

CAFFERTY: We're going to do a break? We'll do a break. We'll be back. We've got Bill on the phone from New Jersey, we'll talk to him right after this.

You are watching HOTLINE. We shall return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: We've got Bill on the phone in New Jersey. How you doing Bill.

BILL: Yeah good, how are you doing?

CAFFERTY: All right.

BILL: You know, I hope my call doesn't seem very unsympathetic, because I am very sympathetic and very consumed with what's been going on with this whole scenario. And but on the other hand I am not weary of flying.

And my concern is that I have accumulated a lot of miles with US Airways and also accumulated a bunch of free tickets with them. And one of your guests had mentioned that in reference to one who is in jeopardy. What happens to them?

CAFFERTY: David Field did you hear the call?

FIELD: Heard the call.

CAFFERTY: What happens to airline miles and all those things?

FIELD: They don't go away. I don't think US Airways is going to disappear. The question is whether US Airways can get back on its feet without the aid of external organizations such as the bankruptcy court or another airline. As for the caller, I'm pretty sure your miles and your free tickets are OK. The airline just needs the time to work out its plans and to find its way through this pretty horrible period.

CAFFERTY: You know, before we do the obituary for the airlines, it is probably worth pointing out that the savings and loan crisis in this country cost the Federal Government $150 billion which is ten times as much money as they have appropriated so far on behalf of the airlines. $150 billion to undue that mess.

So, we're so far not talking about any sort of record amount of money coming out of Washington to help an industry in trouble.

Lets take a call from Lisa in Pennsylvania.

LISA: Yes. I just have a concern here. With the flight decks being secured, the doors and everything like that, the air marshals are going to be on board. To me in my opinion this doesn't give me a sense of security.

CAFFERTY: Why not?

LISA: Because if the pilots are there, and the door is there, and they are not going to open it up for any reason. And I have a mad man, they can go ahead and bomb the back and we're all still dead.

I would like to see, why don't the companies look into technology and maybe have a panic button.

CAFFERTY: That's not a bad idea and it is actually a version of several calls I've taken this week from people. Either the ability to release some sort of chemical into the passenger compartment that would put everybody to sleep or some sort of computer arrangement where the pilot could hit a button and the airplane would be put on automatic pilot and it would take it to the nearest base or those kinds of things. Technology certainly could play a role and probably will as they go about making changes.

FROMMER: Sure, I too am hoping that these new measures that they are inputting, and the hopeful joining of the federal government into the security process will make things better.

But people should realize that even with the disastrous events of last year, flying remains the safest mode of transportation.

CAFFERTY: Right.

FROMMER: Because yes, every once in a while there may be a terrorist attack. We have to realize that now. We've had ten years without it ...

CAFFERTY: We've got 35,000 flights a day in this country when we are up and running full speed.

FROMMER: Exactly, but every day you also have drunk drivers, you also have slick roads.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

FROMMER: You are still going to see many more casualties by driving.

CAFFERTY: David, you talk about the consolidation, or I was talking about it, what about that possibility? And the other part of the question, what about the small airlines? There are dozens and dozens of small airlines around the company. Might this be in some strange way an opportunity for some of them?

FIELD: How I wish it were. But I think the small airlines, the national carriers, the little guys like National, the airline in Las Vegas that has these $1 and $20 fares, they are probably the most in jeopardy of all. To me I think it is a real tragedy, because they were the ones who provided the real competition, the real challenge to the big guys. Airline out in Kansas City called Vanguard, National, Frontier, an airline that made money, an airline that was a wonderful competitive response to United Airlines.

CAFFERTY: I flew Frontier Airlines when I was a kid out in Nevada, they've been around a long time.

FROMMER: Jet Blue does seem to be doing well.

FIELD: That's the original Frontier.

CAFFERTY: Oh, this is a different one.

FIELD: This is a different one, this one is about six or eight years old.

CAFFERTY: Why would this not be a chance to perhaps try to expand their operations a little bit, if the big ones are cutting routes and shutting down routes and laying off people, and grounding airplanes and in effect restricting the available air travel in the country?

FIELD: When the demand dries up for the big guys, it dries up for the little guys also. And if you are a little guy and you want to expand and you want to borrow money, who is going to lend you money now?

CAFFERTY: Yeah.

FIELD: There's no place to go to get cash now. Can I -- if you don't mind -- let me come back to the security question.

CAFFERTY: Go ahead.

FIELD: Just for a brief time. The guest called in about the panic button, and we've heard all sorts of things about other stuff we can put on the airplane, dead bolts and missile heat guns for the pilots and so on.

And I don't mean to make light of this, but we really have to think of doing security long before we are on the airplane. The airplane is the last place we do security. In the airport and outside of the airport is where we really do the most effective security. That's also the place, I think, where the interesting newer technologies are going to start to play a role.

Technologies such as face recognition, iris recognition, very high tech, sophisticated fingerprint recognition. This is also the place where the civil liberties debate will probably take its place. But that's where we have to be thinking about security. And that is where the real money is going to have to be spent.

CAFFERTY: Long before you get to the airplane, that's a very good point. It's a little late to worry about it when the terrorists are aboard, isn't it. Changes that people can expect when they do fly, yesterday it was announced a lot of the airlines are going to stop serving food.

FROMMER: Right.

CAFFERTY: Which maybe considered a benefit...

FROMMER: TWA and American.

CAFFERTY: ... by some travelers. I've eaten that stuff.

FROMMER: They're going to stop serving food. Certain of the airlines are no longer allowing unaccompanied minors or only allowing them on non-stop flights. So parents who need to send their children that way need to call in advance now. Because of these new security measures you are going to have to get to the airport earlier. You're going to have to make sure that you don't have any nail files or sharp money clips or nail polish remover.

CAFFERTY: This is an absolutely true story. One of our executives, in fact he may be in the control room, was on a Delta flight yesterday coming from, I don't know, California, it doesn't matter where he was coming from. They served him a meal, because they haven't quit I guess on Delta yet.

FROMMER: No.

CAFFERTY: The meal tray is set in front of him, there is a metal spoon, metal fork and plastic knife. I mean it's incredible -- it's just bizarre, it's bizarre.

FROMMER: Yeah, yeah.

CAFFERTY: I mean, I -- go figure.

FROMMER: Well hopefully it will help.

CAFFERTY: What about luggage? Are there changes in the way they will handle luggage?

FROMMER: Well certain airports are allowing less carry-ons and the sky caps, as most of us know, are now gone. So that curbside luggage check-in is gone. So we're suggesting that people pack lighter, because you are going to be lugging it through the airport. They now are searching luggage more often. Another reason to pack lighter. So those are going to be the major changes right now.

CAFFERTY: OK, Jenson (ph) in Oklahoma, good evening.

JENSON: How are you doing?

CAFFERTY: Good.

JENSON: My question was, I just want to get you guys' opinion. With all these layoffs and these thousands of thousands of people getting laid off from these companies, what the possibility might be for all these owners and CEOs and chairman and presidents of all these different airlines who have been losing so much money and business and everything else to come and make it into one big airline?

CAFFERTY: David, consolidation, a possibility, maybe one or two super carriers come out of this thing?

FIELD: I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

CAFFERTY: I don't know either.

FIELD: A lot of folks felt that before the crisis were on the way towards that, that the United Airways takeover of US Airways was the first big step towards final consolidation. I'm not really sure it is what the industry wanted. I'm not really sure it's what was going to happen. I'm not real sure one big airline is a good thing. I'm not real sure two big airlines is a good thing. It's not going to happen now though. If you merge two airlines that are losing money, you get one big airline that's losing money.

CAFFERTY: Right.

FIELD: Red ink plus red ink equals red ink. What we are going to see in terms of consolidation unfortunately is a paring down of smaller carriers, the weaker carriers. I think we're still going to see the big guys. We're still going to see the big four, the big five remaining on their own. I certainly hope so, I maybe wrong and I hope I'm wrong.

CAFFERTY: We talking about Continental, American, Delta, United and maybe Northwest?

FIELD: Yes.

CAFFERTY: We've got to wrap up this segment. I want to thank you both, David Field is with "Airline Business" magazine and Pauline Frommer who is with "Arthur Frommer's Budget Travel" here in New York.

Thank you very much for being with us on HOTLINE tonight. We're going to take a station break, and we will be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Welcome back to CNN's HOTLINE. I'm Jack Cafferty. Those of you calling and asking for Don, he's not here. I'm here and my name is Jack. And if Don comes in later, I'll tell him you called.

Garrick Utley has the latest news -- Gary.

UTLEY: Right Don.

(LAUGHTER)

UTLEY: We've been hearing from your guests just in the last half hour or 45 minutes about this fear of traveling, fear of flying, if you will. It reminds us of the old quote of -- saying of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, "the only fear we have to fear is fear itself." Doesn't that bring the dark days of the question? It reminds us that very often fear is as much inside of us as it is out there with some terrorist. I'll be talking more about that in just a moment.

But, first, let's get caught up with some of the latest developments in the news. U.S. law enforcement officials are widening their search for suspects in the terrorist attacks. United States investigators want to extradite a man from Yemen who's being held in Canada. Officials believe he carried three false Yemen passports aboard a flight from Europe to Chicago on the day of the attacks. The plane that man was flying on was diverted to Canada when the FAA ordered all flights grounded in the United States.

The U.S. House and Senate passed legislation Friday to aid the crippled airline industry. The package gives $5 billion in immediate cash assistance to the airlines and $10 billion in loan guarantees. This package is part of an effort to help keep several major carriers from collapsing.

Well, we know the news in the stock market. The stock market hit the airline industry especially hard this week. The blue chips logged their biggest weekly point loss, not percentage loss, but point loss, since those days of the Depression. The stock market reopened Monday after it was closed for four days because of those attacks.

Crews in New York City looking through the mangled mess of debris of metal and stone and glass in New York continue to search for the missing and the presumed dead. So far, 183 bodies have been identified. The number of confirmed dead is now 252.

Some more joyous news in New York City. Baseball made its way back to the city. Friday night, it was the first major sporting event in New York since September 11. The Mets wore hats honoring the city's fire department, police and emergency crews, quite appropriately so. And best of all for New York, the Mets won, a close one, three to two.

Those smiling faces there, the flags waving, also bring an idea to mind. Obviously, people aren't traveling, but maybe this is a good time to come to New York. Anybody out there who wants a bargain. After all, you can come here and get a theater ticket to almost any musical or show you want to. Just walk right up to the box office and walk right on in.

If you want to go to a restaurant, you don't have to wait a week or a month to get the best table. You can go in and get any table you want in the best restaurants in Manhattan. You may be alone, but you'll get a table and a good meal.

The hotels, good rates now. And boy, are they going to fall all over themselves to give you good service. Now, I'm not acting like a Chamber of Commerce booster here, Jack, but there's a lot going for the city right now. There's something to take advantage of. And above all, crime. Crime in New York dropped 34 percent in the week following September 11. So, come on over.

CAFFERTY: Although, you know, I read something in the paper, Gary. There's a shopping mall on one of the lower levels below the World Trade Center that apparently looters got to. And one of the them a Turno (ph) Watch Store, very expensive wristwatches and apparently they got in there and cleaned the place out. Police said they have some ideas about who may have done it.

The other thing you can get in New York right now that's a little tough sometimes is you can get a cab even if it's raining. So, bring your money and come to the big city.

(LAUGHTER)

CAFFERTY: Forty billion dollars a year is what the tourism industry generates in the Big Apple.

Tom Mintier has joined us each night on this program and tonight is no exception. He is in Islamabad, Pakistan. Tom, it's nice to have you on the program as always. I understand there were some pretty nasty anti-American demonstrations over there today.

TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were. It was Friday, a day of strike declared here in Pakistan. Major cities erupting on the streets. In Karachi, more than 10,000 people came out. Two are reported dead, many more injured. The police took a very strong stand there in Karachi and came out with tear gas and rubber bullets and did fire quite a few shots as you can see in the video.

It was a very, very large and unruly crowd running, throwing stones. It was that 10 to 15 percent that President Musharraf talked about in his speech earlier in the week that really do oppose helping the United States in this war on terrorism.

Also, in Peshawar, there was also a very large demonstration, a bit more peaceful than the one in Karachi. The good thing is political analysts here say the demonstrations were a lot smaller than would be expected following an announcement like helping the United States in a war that comes to it against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Political analysts say that this is indeed a good sign, that the majority of the 140 million people here in Pakistan do not support violent demonstrations in the streets and it comes probably as good news to the government here because any destabilization would be a real problem.

There will be an inter-agency team from the United States from the State Department and the Pentagon arriving here in the next few days. I spoke to a senior Western diplomat yesterday. They said they're not really sure when that team is going to arrive. But, they will hold discussions on exactly what is going to be asked of Pakistan and what Pakistan may provide to the United States.

They have already agreed to provide access to their air space here, something that would be critical if indeed there are going to be any air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Jack?

CAFFERTY: Tom, thanks very much. Tom Mintier from Islamabad, Pakistan. It was of course Franklin Delano Roosevelt who told the nation the only thing we need to fear, or we have to fear I think was the quote, is fear itself.

Last night, in his speech to Congress, President Bush talked about fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I asked you to live your lives and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight, and I ask you to be calm and resolute even in the face of the continuing threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: The terrorist attacks that spurred Internet rumors panic buying of gas masks talk of impending additional attacks. So, how does a frightened American public sort through what is real and what is paranoia? And if we're going to be afraid, are there things to legitimately be afraid of?

Barry Glassner is a professor of sociology at the University of Southern California and he's the author of the book "Culture of Fear" and the subtitle is "Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things." He joins us tonight from Southern California. Mr. Glassner, nice to have you with us.

BARRY GLASSNER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: Thanks for inviting me.

CAFFERTY: It is a frightened country right now, not unexpectedly. What are your thoughts on the way the public and the nation is feeling right now? They're afraid. They're afraid to fly. They're afraid of additional attacks. They're just -- they're afraid.

GLASSNER: Well, we certainly have had good reason to be afraid. I mean, we've had something that is just absolutely horrific happen. And I don't want to minimize the real nature of our fear and that it's coming from something very real. But, I do think, as you were saying in your introduction here, that we need to keep it under control and we need to be realistic.

When we let our fears and scares go all over the place, and let this event transfer into all sorts of rumors and false fears, we really paralyze ourselves and we do it to ourselves and we do our country a lot of damage. And we do our families and our children a lot of damage. So, I think we need to focus on what's real and separate it out from all sorts of other fears and scares that come into the picture when we have this kind of situation going on.

CAFFERTY: All right. Let's talk about what's real right now. There was an internal memo, apparently circulated among federal government employees, that talked about "credible evidence that more attacks are planned in the United States." That was, you know, a government memo that was sent around. Should we be afraid of additional terrorist attacks at this point?

GLASSNER: I think it's certainly a real possibility that there will be additional terrorist attacks. In fact, we can say that at some point there will be additional terrorist attacks because there are terrorists around the world out to do things to us.

But, we need to put that in perspective. That's different than the many, many rumors that are spreading on e-mail, on the Internet, among friends, networks and so forth, about all kinds of things happening. The number of rumors that I hear about that people are taking seriously, and which I don't want to repeat here because then they'll be repeated...

CAFFERTY: No, I know. Then, we're just adding to the problem. Sure.

GLASSNER: ... to other people. Exactly. But, the number of them, and the silliness of them, when we take a step back is pretty extreme. And the same thing is true about our perceptions about all sorts of travel, air travel and so forth. The notion that somehow it is now more dangerous to fly than it was on September 10 lacks credibility frankly.

Even if there are additional terrorist attacks, they almost certainly will not take the same form as this one because this one was planned very meticulously as we know and now there are additional security procedures in place. And the very fact that there is more security, and that there is more concern from government officials, and more attention being paid, should make us feel in fact safer than we did before.

It's understandable that we don't. But at some point, and I would hope fairly soon, we need to let our rational minds take hold on this.

CAFFERTY: You talked about rumors. I spend a good deal of my time here at CNN, and at CNNFN, doing business and financial news. One of the great sources of rumors is the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and the floor of any of the stock exchanges, the currency commodity exchanges, the Chicago Board of Trade.

And rumors spread among those people like wildfire. And obviously, many times they are acted upon because if they are true or not true, the financial implications can be simply huge.

And where I'm going with this is there was a story the other day at the Chicago Board of Trade among the bond traders, some sort of rumor got started that lead to the eventual evacuation of the Sears Tower, which is the tallest building on the North American continent. There turned out to be nothing to it. But, you know, that's no small job emptying out the Sears Tower.

What should people do if they are told something that they can't verify but that seems like either based on the person telling them, or on the information they're hearing, seems reasonable or plausible? I mean, how do you handle rumors?

GLASSNER: Well, one thing we need to remind ourselves is that we're more susceptible to rumors right now and that goes a long way just keeping that in mind. You know, when something completely unexpected and horrific occurs that we would have imagined was absolutely impossible, then when we hear other things that sound impossible, we say to ourselves, well that one turned out not to be impossible. Maybe this one isn't either.

And that works all the way back, which is to say if we hear something that sounds improbable or unlikely or fishy, now we're much more likely to believe it. So, we need to let that kick in first and ask what's the source of the information. Can we verify it? Is it reasonable? And also, how many of these sorts of things have we heard in the past week or two weeks?

After all, you know, our government officials and media right now are very keen on letting us know about anything that is verified or that has legitimacy. So, we can take some sense of security from that as well.

CAFFERTY: Well, and you know, if somebody came up to anybody two or three weeks ago and said, you know, I heard that there is a plot afoot where there are going to be two passenger jets hijacked in the air and crashed into the World Trade Center knocking them both to the ground, I mean, you'd have had trouble finding people believing that story. I mean, that's just beyond comprehension almost.

GLASSNER: That's right. And what I think is hard to keep in mind, but very important, is that it does not follow from that that other ludicrous stories we're hearing now have more credibility. They don't.

The fact that that occurred, we now know more about it and we will know a lot more about it. But one thing we know is that it didn't just happen out of the blue. There was tremendous planning. These were very sophisticated people who carried this off and that simply by definition cannot happen all that often. It could happen again. There's no question. But, it can't happen very often in fact.

CAFFERTY: All right. Let's get a call in here. Rita from New Mexico. How are you doing tonight?

RITA: I'm doing good.

CAFFERTY: What can we do for you?

RITA: Well, I'd like to express an opinion and then I think that Americans should get out there and fly. I know they're afraid, but nobody's flying. The airlines are in trouble and if this happens, if this comes to be worse, then they've won in that respect and ...

CAFFERTY: That's exactly right. And you know, I mean, there's probably -- we all have somebody in the family or a friend someplace we haven't seen. And you know, for no other reason than what Rita is suggesting, that it would be good for the country, we ought to all go buy a ticket and hop on a plane and go see somebody we haven't seen in a while.

Mayor Giuliani here in New York, President Bush, telling us all live your life. Go to the restaurants. Go to the theater. Go shopping. Get out. Take the kids to the park. Don't let these mutants, for lack of a better word, change the way you live. It's the greatest country in the world, but it doesn't matter if you don't enjoy what it has to offer. We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: We were just talking on the phone with Rita in New Mexico about taking a flight. Get out and do things. Go to a restaurant or a movie. Paul Vercammen is out in the Old Town section of Pasadena, California tonight where people are doing just that. It looks like a beautiful night out there. The streets are crowded, the sidewalks. Folks out having a good time. Hi, Paul.

VERCAMMEN: I'll tell you what, Jack, you're right. Because we are here at the Crocodile Cafe and people have been getting out and about. Earlier, I should note this, and you probably watched, people were glued to their televisions. A lot of people watched the game between the Braves, or at least the pre-game festivities between the Braves and the Mets.

And some of them are also watching the telethon, which is on now on the West Coast. And if you want a highly unscientific completely random unofficial poll, I think a lot people here said that that Neil Young version of John Lennon's "Imagine" was particularly stirring. But all that being said, that might have been brief comfort.

A lot of people here do have concerns. We're going to talk now to Lenny and Kathy. How has life changed for you? What might you be doing differently in the aftermath of these attacks?

LENNY: Well, for me, it's really heightened my awareness. But, I haven't really changed too much on what I basically do. I'm saying to myself I'm not going to let that type of incident change my lifestyle. I'm still going to go on the way I always go. But, I am going to be aware of my surroundings and what I do.

VERCAMMEN: As you said though, you're a season ticket holder for USC football games, for example.

LENNY: Oh yes. That right there would make you aware because there's so many people in one place. So, you know, you keep looking around. But, yet still I'm not going to stop myself from going. I'm definitely going to attend the games.

VERCAMMEN: Great. We thank you. Let's talk to Kathy now. Kathy, we know that in Southern California some people have gone so far as to start buying gas masks. And I'm wondering is that something that you would see yourself doing? Is that a relevant purchase?

KATHY: I have to say, I don't see myself buying gas masks or rushing out and stocking up on canned goods. I do think that there could be a retaliation if we actually go to war. But, I assume that the armed forces will take of that and eventually they come to our shores. I don't know that the gas mask is a lot of protection.

You asked Lenny how had it changed his life. And I thought about it when you asked the question and for me, it actually has resulted in a situation where I have watched TV much more in the last week and a half than I probably had in the year prior to that just to keep up with what's going on. Because I don't typically watch a lot of television. But, staying connected has been very important to me. So, that's been a change.

And I have to say, I am very, very proud of the response of America and the American people, how we have come together. And I've heard a number of people talk about, you know, this will change our lives. If one of the changes could be a positive change in that we maintain that sense of connection and solidarity into the future, I would consider that to be extremely beneficial for us as a nation.

VERCAMMEN: Well, we thank you for your thoughts. Very well said. And as you also heard, she said a lot of folks are gathering around their TV's. And Jack, I should note this, we've heard some people out here on the West Coast talking about your show and I may not relay this exactly verbatim, but from what I understand to be true is that David Lynch, the director, said in so many words that he's really enjoying watching it and the performance from a lot of people on CNN. So, back to you now in New York.

CAFFERTY: Well, that's nice to hear. Thank you, Paul, very much. Paul Vercammen out in Pasadena, California. Denise is on the phone in Kansas. Hi, Denise.

DENISE: Hi. How are you tonight?

CAFFERTY: Pretty good. How are you doing? What can we do for you?

DENISE: Well, I just had a couple of comments.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

DENISE: The gentleman that called in earlier worrying about his frequent flyer miles. I'm a flight attendant by profession.

CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.

DENISE: Choosing not to fly now because I indeed have a fear. The system that has been in place with security cannot be changed overnight. My friends that are flying their trips are telling me the same people are working the security checkpoints. And I agree with the gentleman that was on before, the airline analyst. He said security needs to take place before they get to the aircraft.

CAFFERTY: Right. All right. You said something about the frequent flyer miles. I don't want to ask what airline you fly for, but to your knowledge, will they continue to honor the miles that people have?

DENISE: You know, I don't know. I'm a flight attendant. I don't work in that part of the market.

CAFFERTY: I hear you. DENISE: And my point in bringing that up is that at a time when people have lost lives, that's just not an appropriate question to be asked.

CAFFERTY: I don't necessarily disagree with you at all. I think you might have something there. Thanks for your call. Let's get an update. We will be going back, by the way, to Barry Glassner, in case he's wondering out there in Southern California. We'll get back to you soon.

I want to go down to Major Garrett at the White House and get from you, if we can, Major, a sense of how much fear is in the nation's capital. I mean, they had that joint session of Congress last night and they had military aircraft patrolling the skies over the nation's capital. I mean, whoever would have guessed we'd of seen a night like that in America?

GARRETT: Well, it's not just that night, Jack. I mean, when the president took off this afternoon from the South Lawn of the White House, rather typical but very stirring sight. I must tell you, every time I see the president's helicopter take off from the South Lawn of the White House, I always get sort of goose flush. It's a great thing to see.

This afternoon though, I wasn't there. I've been told military jets were flying over the White House again providing military cover for the president's helicopter, Marine One, as it took off from the South Lawn of the White House. So, there is always an edginess around here.

Let me just tell you a very personal story. We're up here on this roof about a block away from the White House. And last weekend, when I was working the overnight shift, it was about 5 in the morning. And I was coming down the long catwalk. It's two stories down to my office.

And I heard a sound that I'm sure you've heard a thousand times in New York City. It is the slam of a dumpster onto the ground after a trash truck has emptied it and puts it slamming down back on the ground.

Well, it was 5:00 in the morning. It was absolutely quiet in Washington. I heard that thunderous slam and the first thing that came to my mind was something has blown up. I looked around and my first instinct was where is the cloud of smoke? Where is the plume of smoke? My heart raced to my throat. And that just gives you -- I mean, I'm a reporter. I'm supposed to try to keep a little bit more of an even keel. We're all edgy around here.

When I walk around the White House grounds and I see Secret Service agents, who I've seen around the grounds for months and months and months, and I look and strapped to their right or left thigh is a gas mask. I think well, I haven't seen that before.

So, personally, I can tell you it's affected me. It's affected all of us who cover the White House. And throughout the city. I'm not going to say there's any sense of panic. People are trying to get back to a sense of routine. But, when you see the military planes in the sky, when you see images that you just simply haven't seen before, you do get a sense that this capital is under a degree of siege and it makes you edgy.

CAFFERTY: Yes. You're a reporter, but you're a human being too. Thanks, Major Garrett, very much. Let's get Barry Glassner, who is professor of sociology at USC to talk about almost involuntary responses to these events. There was one described by Major Garrett. I had one the other day and it's like your emotions get ahead of your brain and you react before you even realize it. How long does it take for something like that to go away?

GLASSNER: Well, I think we have to accept that that's going to be the case for a while. But, if we accept that as normal over the long haul or something that we should just take as a natural part of our lives, we're never going to get past it. So, I think it's very important to recognize what we have reacted to and respond accordingly.

You know, some of the people that your reporter was interviewing there in Pasadena were talking about getting out and about how much, you know, how rewarding that is for them. And you know, when we talked about people who aren't doing that as we were earlier, you know, one question to ask is what are we doing instead?

You know, if we're not flying, for example, if we're driving some -- if we're driving a long distance instead of taking an airline, we're putting ourselves and our families in greater danger objectively. There's no doubt that it is safer to be flying than to be driving over a long distance. Even if there are future terrorist attacks or future problems with airlines, the number --

CAFFERTY: Yes. But, you know what? I mean, I understand you. And the statistics will absolutely back you up. But, even before this happened, I don't care what the numbers are, I feel safer in my car than I do in an airplane with somebody else flying it. It's just -- I mean, that's just me. I'm 58 and I didn't used to feel that way when I was a younger guy.

But, the older I've gotten, I don't know, since the mortality, or whatever it is, creeps in, I get in the car and it's my car and I'm driving it. I feel better than when I go and get on an airplane and that thing goes thundering down the runway at 200 miles an hour and the nose lifts up and away we go. And it's like, well, I hope we get down all right. You know, I probably shouldn't -- you know, I shouldn't talk about it.

But, I mean, the statistics are one thing. Human nature is another sometimes.

GLASSNER: That's right. But, we have to remember again that there's two parts to our human nature. We're also rational animals. And while I completely accept that we have those kinds of reactions, when I'm in my car I feel in more control than I do on an airplane too. If we're ever going to get past this national trauma that we're having now, which again is something that we're all in. It's collective. It's not just this individual feeling behind the wheel of a car. We're going to have to get to that other point. And the only way we can do it is to keep reminding ourselves what the reality of the situation is.

And that, for example, if we see, as we've been hearing today, when we see people on airplanes that make us suspicious, we might bring that up, but we shouldn't overreact to it and create all kinds of other problems as a result of our overreaction.

CAFFERTY: And the collective behavior of all of us in the country now is also a weapon as far as the people who did this.

GLASSNER: Absolutely.

CAFFERTY: The faster we're back to doing our thing, the better it is for us and the more frustrating it would have to be for them. I have to do a station break. Don't go away though. We'll be back right after this. You're watching HOTLINE on CNN. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Welcome back. It's 1:30 on -- exactly in the East. And the director of this very fine television CNN's HOTLINE, Ellie (ph), in addition to his directing duties, is assigned to be on the Barry Bonds watch while we're on the air.

And the Giants got beat tonight, and Barry Bonds didn't hit a homerun. Oh, they won two to nothing, but Barry Bonds did not hit a home run.

What'd he go? One for three, Ellie (ph)? He had 64. The record is 71, and he's only got 14 games left. So if you do the math, he has to hit a homerun every other day from now until the end of the season if he's going to catch Mark McGuire, who set the all-time record.

That said, let's get caught up on some more important news items, and for that we turn to Garrick Utley. Hi, Garrick.

UTLEY: Jack, the latest developments in these early morning hours, at least here on the East Coast in New York City, just a couple of hours ago, late Friday, Congress finalized a package to give a big financial boost to the airlines, to the tune of $15 billion.

Airlines have been forced to lay off tens of thousands of employees, as we know, since last week's terrorist attacks.

The airlines claim billions of dollars in losses from the forced shutdown following those hijacks -- hijackings. Also, of course, a very weak economy.

The FBI says, one of the suspected hijackers, Abdul Aziz Alomari, may have been instrumental in organizing the strikes. Part of that suspicion is based on his e-mail and phone contacts. Alomari was on American Airlines 11 -- Flight 11 -- which hit the Trade Center's north tower.

The Pentagon is working on sending more support aircraft to augment the deployment of war planes to the Persian Gulf and Central Asia, and those regions.

Pentagon sources are keeping silent on the size of this additional deployment and, of course, where exactly those planes might be sent.

Well, the confirmed death toll now -- 252 at the World Trade Center, with more than 6,000 others still missing.

Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller toured the site on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHCROFT: It is a capital of the of the world for spirit. If the assault by terrorists tore a hole in the American soul, looking into that hole we see a spirit that says what the President of the United States said last night to the assembled members of Congress, to the people of America, and to freedom-loving citizens around the world. We will rebuild New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UTLEY: There's a lot of other rebuilding to do for the families of those who lost their lives.

And across the country, dozens of stars from television, film and music appeared in the two-hour televised kick-off for a pledge drive to raise money for the victims of last week's attacks -- Tom Hanks, Will Smith, Muhammad Ali. Just count them all. They were appearing during this gala presentation.

If you want to donate, you can. Just visit the Web site, www.tributetoheroes.org. The fund is being administered by the United Way.

And I think it's going pretty well, Jack. One of your guests earlier on in the program, Dennis Franz of "NYPD Blue" said that he thought or had heard that it's over $100 million has been raised. And that'll continue to go in the hours and the days to come.

I know we're all being affected by that, particularly here in New York City. In the lobby of the apartment building where I live, there's a little notice saying that the local fire department, just two blocks away, lost a number of their fire fighters in the blast at the World Trade Center, and we're a long ways a way from downtown, Lower Manhattan.

But, nevertheless, my wife said this morning, she's going to write out a check, and how much can I write out, Garrick, and take it by and drop it off to the firehouse, so... CAFFERTY: You know, it's funny. What is it, the City itself is eight million. The metropolitan area is probably 20 million around here.

In the last two weeks, this has become the smallest town in the United States, and...

UTLEY: It's a real community.

CAFFERTY: Yeah, it really is. And it's just amazing. I mean, New Yorkers put the lie to all of the traditional rumors and things about them being brusque and short and unfriendly and curt and in a hurry. And, I mean, it's been an outpouring of humanity and generosity and sympathy and compassion, the likes of which I've never seen before.

UTLEY: Hope it lasts.

CAFFERTY: Yeah. That'd be a nice way to rewrite the history book for the City going forward.

Garrick Utley with the latest news.

Bruce in California, good evening.

BRUCE: Hi, Jack.

CAFFERTY: How are you doing?

BRUCE: Hanging in there.

CAFFERTY: What can we do for you?

BRUCE: Oh, I was thinking about security over the past years, and the airlines. I've been in the airline business for 35 years ...

CAFFERTY: In what capacity, if I could ask?

BRUCE: As a pilot.

CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.

BRUCE: When I was in college back in the '60s, there was a young lad named D.B. Cooper...

CAFFERTY: Oh, sure.

BRUCE: ... who got through security and pulled off a very historic event by bailing out of the back of a 727 with a large amount of cash.

CAFFERTY: Right.

BRUCE: Neither he nor the money was ever recovered. Nobody ever did that, once the surprise of having done that, and it was accomplished, and it was never done again, because of the security. The same thing's happening now with the -- there -- I could walk through today with just my clothes on and have a lethal weapon on me in my belt, something like that.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUCE: Everybody...

CAFFERTY: I think we lost him. The point being -- and our guest out in California, Barry Glassner, was talking about this -- the fact that something as bizarre as the attack on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center happened, doesn't mean that it's going to happen again.

On the contrary, the probability suggests that it probably will never happen again.

Talk to me about the cycle of fear, if you would for a minute, Barry Glassner. The stock market is ruled by two emotions -- greed and fear. Fear has been driving the market for the last eight days.

We have lost something in the neighborhood of $1.5 trillion in market capitalization. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is sitting at levels we haven't seen in three-and-a-half years.

And selling in an atmosphere like this begets selling, and it's because of what you write about in your book, "The Cycle of Fear." Tell me how that works.

GLASSNER: That's exactly right. And the stock market right now is unfortunately the best example and a really upsetting example, I think. Because what happens is, the market goes down, so we become more fearful. So we sell stocks, or at least don't buy stocks. Then the market goes down as a result of that behavior. And it feeds on itself.

The only way that you can break that cycle, is to break the fear part of it. For people to say, enough of this, already. I'm not going to be fearful of it, which means taking some risks. And it may mean that some of the big guys have to take some risks, by the way. It's not just us -- those of us who are small investors.

But it means taking some risks. They may not pay off the first time, second time or third time. But until we take them, it's just like anything else in life, really. Until we take them, we don't know what's going to happen. And if we don't take them, positive things are never going to happen.

CAFFERTY: So, we've got to suck it up and get through it somehow, right? Make the...

GLASSNER: I think that's right. It was...

CAFFERTY: ... conscious decision to go through it.

GLASSNER: And, you know, that's it, in the stock market as in anywhere else. But in the stock market, it's particularly vicious in a way...

CAFFERTY: Oh, yes.

GLASSNER: ... because fear really feeds on itself and, you know, and in an absolute way. That it's not just kind of, you know, the way we talk about it if we're fearful of cats or something.

CAFFERTY: Yeah.

GLASSNER: If we all behave this way in the stock market, it keeps going down. We get more fearful and it goes down farther.

CAFFERTY: Yeah. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Let's take another call from Kay (ph) in Texas. Hi, Kay (ph).

KAY: Yes.

CAFFERTY: Hello.

KAY: Oh, I'm sorry. I have just a few statements to make. I'm very sorry for the people that have been killed in New York and Pentagon.

And I want to say to the people in the world, get out there, please, and show our nation your support. Get on those planes.

CAFFERTY: Get on the planes. Go to a restaurant. Go shopping. Take the kids to the movies. Do things. Live your life.

Will in Texas, you there? Another call from Texas.

WILL: Yes, sir. I'm here. How are you this evening, Jack?

CAFFERTY: Getting on all right. How about yourself?

WILL: Oh, not too bad. Just got off a 48-hour fishing trip, and had...

CAFFERTY: Catch anything?

WILL: ... take my mind off. Oh, yeah. We limited out on snapper.

CAFFERTY: That doesn't sound too bad.

WILL: Anyway...

CAFFERTY: Have a little barbecue tomorrow.

WILL: I'm sorry?

CAFFERTY: I say, have a little barbecue tomorrow. May come down.

WILL: That's right. You're more than welcome to come. CAFFERTY: What's going on?

WILL: Well, I'm a little concerned about the possibilities of any chemical or biological weapons that might be used within the United States. You know, if, not to spread a rumor, because I know you all were hitting on that earlier, about people spreading rumors.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

WILL: But it has been brought up about certain facilities that may be possibly producing anthrax, you know, or anything of that sort. And what do you think the threat is, or how big, if any threat at all do you think that is, within the United States, here?

CAFFERTY: You know, I would have absolutely no way of answering that question, and it'd be foolish of me to even try.

Those weapons do exist. I suppose that, you know, it's a possibility. But I have no idea what kind of a possibility or probability. I simply don't know. And that's all I can tell you.

Unfortunately, we don't have anybody on tonight. We've had some people on earlier in the week who could probably address that. Well, I know they could address it much more intelligently than I just did, but they're not here tonight.

Barry Glassner is here, though. He's a professor of sociology at University of Southern California. His book is "The Culture of Fear." The subtitle is, "Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things."

I've got four kids. They're all grown. The youngest one is 16 years old.

What do you do in the family environment about this stuff? And how do you handle this thing with children who are younger and whose -- I mean, my mind couldn't get around this event for 72 hours. I couldn't comprehend it. I couldn't grasp it.

What do you -- how do you handle it with kids?

GLASSNER: I think the important thing with young children, above all, is to tell them and show them that they are safe, that the adults around them are going to protect them and can be relied upon.

And second, is to say to them and show them again that most adults in the world are good people, that there are some bad people and people who do bad things. But most adults are good people and most adults can be relied upon.

You raised a really important point, though. The notion that anyone can deal with this and should be given all the information about it, I don't think is really right.

I think you have to make that assessment with each individual in your family, of whatever age the children are. Some fairly young children can handle it and are interested in it, and want to know the basics of what has happened, and that's fine.

But others can't, and many parents, I think most parents and teachers have a sense of who's who.

I want to say one other thing about that, not just with regard to children, but more broadly. And this is something that we're paying attention to, those of us who are in universities.

Some people -- for some people, this creates a trauma and brings back old traumas. And they respond in different ways than most people, and they need professional counseling.

And as friends and family members and teachers, and so forth, and colleagues and coworkers, when we see someone who is in that kind of situation, I think it's important for us to try to find help for them, and not just assume, well, it's just taking them a little longer. They're taking it much harder than the rest of us.

CAFFERTY: Fair enough. Major Garrett's at the White House, and he wants to weigh in on this topic. Hi, Major.

GARRETT: Hey, Jack. A couple of times in the aftermath, I've heard the phrase, America has lost its innocence, because of this tragedy.

Well that would by my count be the second time that's happened in my life. I was born in 1962. The Kennedy assassination is often also regarded as a moment when the United States lost its innocence.

And I've done a little bit of thinking about this. I cover the presidency. I try to get a sense of the sweep of American history, and I've come to one conclusion. Because I think that's something that happens to our country a lot. That is to say, we remake our innocence.

We recreate for ourselves a sense of hope and opportunity. And that's one of the things I think is most unique about our country, about our government institutions and the way we look at ourselves.

I would imagine some people, if they didn't use the exact same phrase, thought the exact same thing when Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, or William McKinley was assassinated, for example. Traumatic moments in American history when the course of events seemed to be, if not entirely positive, at least forward looking in an optimistic way.

Then a trauma occurs, and we sense all of our innocence is gone. And yet again and again our history shows us that we find a way to recreate that sense of optimism, that sense of protection, that sense that we have great things that lie just ahead.

That's also something we tell our children. It's also we -- something we do as adults and people who function in this country, and we do it over and over and over again.

And I think that's one of the things all of us are struggling to achieve now -- regaining that. It's certainly nowhere close to being achieved now. But if history's any guide, I think we're working in that direction.

CAFFERTY: All right, Major...

GARRETT: Just a thought.

CAFFERTY: ... appreciate it; Major Garrett at the White House.

Let me at this moment tell you that coming up after the break, we'll turn this program over to you, the viewers, and take your calls till we run out of time, which is about 17, 18 minutes, so we should be able to hear from a lot of you.

Barry Glassner from USC, I want to thank you for being on the broadcast with us here tonight on CNN's HOTLINE. I've learned some things listening to what you had to say.

And if people want to know more, they can pick up your book, "Culture of Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things." Thanks very much for being with us.

GLASSNER: Thank you.

CAFFERTY: OK. We'll be back. And it's your turn, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: As we head into the home stretch, I want to get as many of your calls in as we can. And let's begin with Robert in Tex -- a lot of calls from Texas.

Robert, how you doing?

ROBERT: Oh, doing fine.

CAFFERTY: What can I help you with?

ROBERT: OK. First of all, I'd like to say, has anybody ever noticed the correlation to the 911, the date of the attack, and our emergency number 911?

CAFFERTY: That's interesting. The other, the other interesting thing was, have you heard of that guy Nostradamus? Nine hundred years ago he wrote predictions about...

ROBERT: Yes.

CAFFERTY: ... the future. And he apparently wrote something to the effect that a twin brothers would separate, and there would be a fire in the big city -- and I'm not getting this exactly right. And 911 was the date that he suggested it would happen.

This is a guy who wrote this stuff 900 years ago, and he, and he followed with, I think the conclusion was that that would mark the birth of the antichrist. But it's a -- there's some very strange coincidences running around in this thing.

William in New Jersey, how are you tonight?

WILLIAM: Pretty well. How are you?

CAFFERTY: All right. What can I do for you?

WILLIAM: Well, I have a comment to make on, that Jack was bringing up on how history works. And one thing that history has shown, is that dire times and crises produce radical elements and justify these radical elements, in terms of support from population.

How could this potentially -- how much farther could it go, before radical elements that our own country have some sort of justifiable, populittle (sic) -- population support?

CAFFERTY: Well, the other piece of the foreign policy debate in Washington is, what can and should this country be doing, perhaps, about addressing the economic woes in the Middle East and places like Afghanistan, where the average person makes $800 a year?

I mean, there is no lifestyle there. They don't -- there's nothing to protect. There's no life.

So, perhaps somewhere down the road, the point you make will be addressed, and maybe we can straighten things out in a way that people are a little happier and have something to hope for.

Gina (ph) in Texas. Good evening.

GINA: Hi. The reason why I was calling is that, all these -- you know, everyone is very, is very frightened right now. And...

CAFFERTY: Sure.

GINA: ... of course, naturally, I am, too. But because of the fear, everyone is so quick to jump and say, yes. You know, well it's about time. If it takes giving, you know, if it takes extra security, if it takes us going through all these changes, you know, let's do it.

But my big concern is, where do we draw the line? When it starts affecting our civil liberties that were granted to us under the Constitution, how far do we take that?

CAFFERTY: That's a very legitimate question. And obviously, people like the ACLU will be watching very closely. That's one of the risks of them rushing legislation through to expand, for example, the wiretap authority of the Justice Department.

We've got to be careful, because the freedoms that we all enjoy are what we're trying to protect, here.

Cindy (ph) in Texas. Good evening.

Not there. Cindy (ph), are you there?

CINDY: Yes, I am.

CAFFERTY: How you doing? We got -- that's a -- we got about 10 calls from Texas tonight. Are we the only channel on the air down there?

CINDY: I -- I don't know.

CAFFERTY: OK. What can I do for you?

CINDY: Well, I was just thinking. I used to work for the stock market, and I worked for the stock market when the shuttle crashed.

CAFFERTY: Oh, I remember that. Sure.

CINDY: And, I remember exactly where I was, and what I was doing, and how bad it affected it then. And, when this happened, I remember exactly what I was doing and what I was going through.

And then, like three days later, four days later, one of our radio stations said that, if you have any amount of money, invest it. Invest it anywhere. It doesn't matter where. Just do it to keep our economy going.

CAFFERTY: Well, but, but be careful. If you're going to do that, that's fine. But do your homework, and invest your money in companies that have real earnings and have a good business plan, and have a chance of coming through this and showing a profit on the other end.

Don't just throw your money into the stock market willy-nilly. Because there's some bad investments out there, too.

Denise (ph) in Colorado. Denise?

DENISE: Yes.

CAFFERTY: Talk to me.

DENISE: Hi. My comment is, why is it that the FBI knew that the plane was off course? Is there a way possible that things (ph) -- that maybe the buildings could be evacuated?

CAFFERTY: Well, I...

DENISE: It took them 10 minutes.

CAFFERTY: They got an awful lot of people out. Remember, the World Trade Center holds 50,000 people. Right now there are 6,000 people missing and presumed dead -- 6,300.

A lot of people got out in the time between when the first plane hit the first tower, and the second plane hit the second tower.

(CROSSTALK)

DENISE: ... before the first plane was going to hit, right? CAFFERTY: Pardon me?

DENISE : Or am I wrong?

CAFFERTY: I'm sorry. What?

DENISE: Did they know before the first plane was going to hit? And...

CAFFERTY: They...

DENISE: ... they just didn't make it in time?

CAFFERTY: No. They didn't know.

DENISE: Oh...

CAFFERTY: The only thing they knew, they turned the -- the hijackers apparently turned off the transponder. That, that meant that the flight was no longer identifiable to air traffic controllers. It was simply a blip on a radar screen.

And when they saw the flight pattern deviate, they didn't know -- what it was, who it was, where it was going -- in time to get fighters into the air to perhaps shoot it down.

Theo in Connecticut, what's your question?

THEO: Hello.

CAFFERTY: Hello.

THEO: Yes, Jack.

CAFFERTY: How you doing?

THEO: How are you?

CAFFERTY: I'm all right.

THEO: I love you in the morning.

CAFFERTY: Oh, thank you. That's the program I ordinarily do on CNNFN and the financial show. I'm glad you watch it.

THEO: Yeah, yeah. I just tuned in.

Listen, first of all, let me set the stage by saying that our hearts bleed terribly for ...

CAFFERTY: Sure.

THEO: ... for what happened. And I like to consider myself as a good American.

But I do have a comment. I'm very proud to be an American. I do have a comment pertaining to the bail-out.

I can understand the government going in there and assisting the airlines, that are businesses trying to be viable and profitable. And I think I'm all for that.

But I do have a problem, I think, with the insurance industry looking for bailouts. What are your thoughts on that?

CAFFERTY: I, you know, I don't know.

THEO: Is it...

CAFFERTY: You know, I mean, there's a point at which, obviously, the government can't bail out everybody. I suppose you could make the argument with the airlines that it asks/has -- that the airline system in this country is a part of national security to the degree that it allows commerce to be done, people to move about, businesses, executives moving back and forth, et cetera.

But, you know, where do you draw the line? Do you bail out the insurance company? Do you bail out the travel agencies?

THEO: Well...

CAFFERTY: Do you bail out the small businesses that are -- I mean, there are how many thousands of businesses were put out of business here in New York when this happened? Do you bail them out? Why ...

THEO: Right.

CAFFERTY: ... would they be any less deserving than the airlines?

THEO: Well, the insurance industry, they basically ask a consumer for a fee, for a premium. You pay your premium and they make a deal with you.

CAFFERTY: Right.

THEO: And they say, if you get this type of loss, whether it's a business, or whether it's your home, or whether it's to a life or an injury, or loss of business, they're going to pay you this.

And they collect those fees for that, and it's agreed upon, and you shake hands, and you pay your fees every month. And now all of a sudden, it seems as though they don't want to pay it out.

CAFFERTY: I don't think that's fair to say that across the board about all the insurance companies. And I think, too, a lot of it has to do with the language in your policy. Our policies ...

THEO: True.

CAFFERTY: ... are different. Companies are different. And I think you have to, you know, read the policy. But if the policy says you're entitled, and then they don't want to pay it, then I think I'd call my friend the neighborhood lawyer and see what he had to say.

Marilyn (ph) in Illinois. How are you, Marilyn?

MARILYN: Hi, there.

CAFFERTY: How are you?

MARILYN: I'm fine, thank you. I wanted to point out to people that bin Laden -- all the terrorist attacks that he's been linked to, he's never repeated the type or the way that he did it.

So the chances of him actually using airplanes again is pretty much slim to none.

CAFFERTY: That's a good point. His pattern is that each one is different.

John (ph) from, it's says, anonymous location. John (ph), what can we do for you?

JOHN: Yes, sir. How are you doing?

CAFFERTY: All right.

JOHN: I'm 10 years prior United States active duty military.

CAFFERTY: OK.

JOHN: OK. I've got another brother just got called back from inactive duty. And he was active reservist Army from Boston, Massachusetts. And I will tell you that I am from Boston.

And my other brother's a active reservist Marine...

CAFFERTY: John, I'm running out of time. What's your...

JOHN: OK. I'll make this short and sweet. I did 10 years, United States Navy. I am 40 years old. Is there any chance that -- I mean, I'm willing -- that they would ever want me to come back to the United States government? I've been in the Persian Gulf, I've been in the...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: You got, do you have a computer?

JOHN: ... I've been around the world.

CAFFERTY: Have you got a computer? Do you have a computer?

JOHN: I have Web TV, sir.

CAFFERTY: All right. Get on there and contact the Navy Web site. I've got to run, John. I'm almost out of time. Two things...

JOHN: Sure, I appreciate...

CAFFERTY: ... before we say good-bye. All right. Nice to talk to you.

This will end this series of special reports on CNN. Tomorrow night the regular network programming will resume.

I've learned a lot in the last seven days on this broadcast. I hope you have, too.

Our staff of Scott and Ellie (ph) and Rachel -- and there are only four of us basically -- plus the tech guys and the crew around here, have all done a great job.

They called up 50,000 reservists, and I can't help but wonder what's going to happen to them. Because in 1968, I was working at a television station in Reno, Nevada when the North Koreans captured the Pueblo.

I was the member of a Air Force reserve unit that Lyndon Johnson called up along with 40,000 other reservists the next day.

I was transferred from Reno to Kansas City to Des -- and then I stayed there, got out of the service, went to Des Moines, came to New York and been here ever since.

So the reason you and I are together tonight is because something the North Koreans did 33 years ago. I wonder what'll happen to the rest of these folks.

From New York City, good night.

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