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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
America's New War: James Rubin Speaks on U.S. War on Terrorism
Aired September 28, 2001 - 06:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Obviously the United States has a lot invested in this war against terrorism and the assets already invested in the Gulf region. To figure out what may happen next, though, with this diplomatic mission of Pakistanis going to speak to the Taliban through this weekend as well as the Taliban's invitation to Reverend Jesse Jackson to come and lead a peace delegation, we're going to go to James Rubin. He is a former assistant secretary of state in the Clinton administration and he is in London today.
Good morning, Jamie.
JAMES RUBIN, FMR. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Good morning.
LIN: What do you make of this Pakistani delegation going to the Taliban and having yet one more conversation about turning over Osama bin Laden?
RUBIN: Well, I think it's primarily for domestic purposes within Pakistan to show the people of Pakistan that the government has gone the extra mile to try to avoid the inevitable use of military force. And by showing they've gone the extra mile, by showing that the Taliban simply refuses to accept the reality of what's coming, they're hoping that it will make it easier to deal with domestic unrest when and if this military force takes place.
LIN: Well, allow me to then take you down a speculative slope here -- a what if scenario. What if the Taliban does hand over Osama bin Laden, then what impact would that have on the United States war against terrorism not only on any potential strikes in Afghanistan but actions that the United States would like to take in other countries as well?
RUBIN: Well, first of all, like in many things you have to be willing to take yes for an answer and if indeed Osama bin Laden is handed over to the United States, which I doubt very, very much, that will be a step forward, but it's clearly not enough.
President Bush rightly laid out a serious of conditions the Taliban have to meet that go well beyond handing over Osama bin Laden: That include the destruction of all of the terrorist camps that he has built within Afghanistan; that include inspections by the outside world to make sure that these outsiders, who have come to Afghanistan to use it as a base for terrorism, will never again be able to do that. I can't imagine that the Taliban will allow that kind of action. I don't believe these are negotiable conditions.
So, although it would be a step forward in putting behind bars the mastermind of a war against the United States and the civilized world, it will not stop what is going to be a long-term war on terrorism.
LIN: So what if then if the Taliban does not hand over Osama bin Laden itself, but what if they enable U.S. forces to go in and find Osama bin Laden? What if there are backdoor channels, which CNN has learned there are some conversations between U.S. officials and some in the Taliban that could lead U.S. forces to find Osama bin Laden, does that change the scenario?
RUBIN: Well I think it does. The Taliban's popularity I suspect is dropping by the minute with -- across Afghanistan, and I suspect there are those within the broader Taliban organization that fear what's coming and want to avoid it.
So if indeed they were to lead the United States or U.S. forces or British forces, or whomever, to the hideout of Osama bin Laden, that he was captured, that his bases were destroyed and a relationship developed with some more moderate forces within Afghanistan, then I think some of the broader scenarios that involve a longer-term military conflict within Afghanistan might be avoided.
LIN: And so, therefore, let's take a look at the fly in the ointment then, at least for the Bush administration, the Taliban has invited Reverend Jesse Jackson to lead a peace delegation to Afghanistan. What are the implications of this? Should the reverend go? Can he be effective?
RUBIN: Well, I served in the Clinton administration and I must say that this doesn't really surprise me. At critical moments, whether it was with the situation in Haiti or the situation in Kosovo or any number of other situations, at the last minute the Jesse Jackson factor had to be taken into account.
I think this is a different kind of circumstance, however. Whether Jesse Jackson invited himself or was invited by the Taliban I think is still a little unclear. But I don't think that beyond perhaps getting the American citizens who are under trial there for proselytizing Christianity, that he has any real role to play; because I do not think the Bush administration will work with him, other than providing him the formal text of the president's speech that lays out the four conditions the Taliban have to meet.
So I would be stunned if Jesse Jackson went through with this. I think it would be extremely controversial if he did anything other than try to win the release of the American citizens who are being held in this rather ridiculous trial for proselytizing Christianity.
LIN: Well we all know that Reverend Jesse Jackson certainly is a man of many surprises, but we'll see what happens. He is thinking about his decision.
James Rubin, former assistant secretary of state, thanks for joining us this morning and good to see you.
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