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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL

U.S. Fights the War on Two Fronts; 16 Christians Gunned Down in a Church in Pakistan; New Jersey Postal Worker Diagnosed With Anthrax

Aired October 28, 2001 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to a special report on America's new war. I'm Judy Woodruff in Washington.

First, the latest developments. CNN's Kamal Hyder reports heavy U.S. air attacks in Kandahar, Afghanistan tonight. He has heard unusually loud explosions on the western side of the city and some that could have been within city limits.

Sources in Kabul say last night that that city suffered the heaviest bombardment since the air strikes began. Dozens of bombs rained down on the capital over an 11-hour period.

CNN has just confirmed that a facility that handles mail for the U.S. Justice Department has tested positive for anthrax. The department's spokesperson says the center that feeds mail to Attorney General John Ashcroft, Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson and other top justice officials was effected.

A Hamilton township postal worker is hospitalized with the first confirmed case of inhaled anthrax in New Jersey. Her case has been among a handful of other suspected cases connected to that postal facility, and it is now confirmed. Officials say the woman is on antibiotics and she is improving.

The U.S. Supreme Court, meantime, awaiting results of anthrax testing of its building. As a precaution, the justices tomorrow will convene outside their historic courtroom for the first time since it was built in 1935. Anthrax turned up in a suburban facility that Supreme Court mail passes through.

The Bush administration finds itself fighting a war against terrorism on two fronts. It is up against the elusive Taliban in Afghanistan and the unseen anthrax menace here at home. CNN's Kelly Wallace looks at how and whether the White House is pulling it off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No comment from President Bush as he returns to the White House to this "Washington Post" report that the CIA is considering for the first time since the 1970s secret missions to assassinate individuals designated by the president as terrorists. Mr. Bush's top advisers were tight-lipped, saying only the U.S. would do what it takes to defend itself.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The only way to deal with the terrorist network is to take the battle to them, and that is in fact what we are doing.

WALLACE: But some lawmakers say the U.S. might not be doing enough. Republican Senator John McCain says the U.S. must ratchet up its military might now to win the war.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's going to take a very big effort, and probably casualties will be involved, and it won't be accomplished through air power alone.

WALLACE: The almost daily aerial bombardment has so far not loosened the Taliban grip on Afghanistan or turned up Osama bin Laden, but the defense secretary says the administration never promised this was going to be quick or easy.

RUMSFELD: It is going to take patience, and that is what is taking place. And it's going very much as expected.

WALLACE: What was not expected, the White House says, sophisticated anthrax sent in the mail. The president's chief of staff rejected criticism the administration did not respond quickly enough.

ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: 20/20 vision is always better looking back than it is looking forward. And I tell you, we have had a challenge in this country. We are meeting the challenge.

WALLACE: But Democratic lawmakers say the White House was not forthcoming in an attempt to keep the public calm.

SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: You get one piece of information and the next is a contribution or a modification, and that in itself creates its own source of panic.

WALLACE (on camera): The administration is making adjustments. Senior Bush aides say Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge will now brief reporters as many as five days a week. White House officials conceding they need to do a better job coordinating the message.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, near Camp David, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: For more on the president's challenges, we are joined by CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett.

Major, what about the charge from Senator Chris Dodd and others that the White House was not forthcoming because it was trying so hard not to panic people?

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, White House officials would reject that, but privately they would say, "look, we were dealing with a conflicting situation where we had inexact science dealing with something we had never dealt with before, anthrax exposure."

Now, policy has changed since the two postal workers who were contaminated at Brentwood facility here in Washington have died. Now, whenever there is any level of exposure to anthrax no matter how small, that facility is closed, workers are put on antibiotics and things are cleared out.

That was not the original policy the administration put together. Why? In part because the administration was trying to avoid creating the situation of panic. They thought the risk of anthrax was lower than the risk of creating panic within the public. So, they chose to be more cautious in their initial assessments of the anthrax danger, until regrettably, tragically, the anthrax proved to be lethal.

Policies have changed, and the coordination of the Bush message will also change. As Kelly pointed out, Tom Ridge, the director of Homeland Security will brief reporters frequently, and there is a move here at the White House to bring scientists into the building, or at least into the White House complex, so that they can be dealt with and questions can be put to them on an hour-by-hour basis, not a day-by- day basis.

WOODRUFF: Major, an issue that's coming up this week, something the White House has been pushing for weeks, and that is airport security. Now, you were telling me earlier tonight the president is going to lay down the law this week and say that the most he is willing to support is partial federalization of these airport security workers.

GARRETT: That's exactly right, Judy. This is really an issue that has become one of not only of public safety but of national security, keeping the airports and the airlines and the passengers that fly on them safe.

And it is going to become a heavily partisan issue. Starting tomorrow, there are going to be rallies sponsored by the Democratic National Committee all over the country criticizing the White House position. Democrats will argue that all airport security personnel should be federal employees, from top to bottom. The White House says that's exactly the wrong thing to do. What they want is they want supervisors who are federal employees, but rank-and-file employees who are coming from the private sector.

Why? They say if there are federal employees throughout the system, they will be harder to fire, harder to discipline. That means the production -- the qualifications, the capabilities of those people who are on the frontline at the airports won't be as good. The Democrats will argue, we have already tried the private system, it didn't work. It has got to be federalized.

It is going to be a tough fight. The White House believes it can win at the House in a vote on Wednesday. And if the president doesn't get his way when that House and Senate bills are merged, the president, I'm told by senior White House officials, will do what he wants by executive order, bypassing Congress entirely -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Well, we are going to be hearing a lot about that one this week. Major Garrett, thanks very much.

Well, that's the story from Washington. Meantime, in Pakistan, authorities are trying to track down members of a banned Islamic group suspected of massacring Christians. Sixteen worshipers where killed today when gunmen stormed their church during a morning service. CNN's Bill Delaney joins us now from Islamabad.

Good morning, Bill. I know it is Monday where you are. Was there increased security at this church, given what is going on in the area?

BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, Judy. This horrific incident has really taken everyone here completely by surprise. There was a security guard, a Muslim security guard, who was killed in the incident, but it was one guard against this group of four to six bearded men who arrived on motorcycles at this Roman Catholic church in southern Pakistan. They came into the church in the middle of services, they bolted the door and began to spray gunfire all over the church, killing men, women and children, at least 16.

An incident unparalleled in the history of Pakistan since its partition with India in the late '40s. It took security forces here very much, as I say, by surprise. Christians simply haven't been targeted here in many, many decades, certainly not on this scale.

Christians less than 1 percent of the population in Pakistan, only about 40,000 of them here. As you said, at least one analyst we spoke to and other analysts now are starting to point to groups in that area, Islamic extremist groups, particularly one, the Lashkar Jangi (ph) group. They were a band last summer. Their leader was hanged by the government.

Now, typically, they would visit violence, often with the same modus operandi, men on motorcycles going in with automatic weapons, but visiting that violence on Shia Muslims. That's the sectarian violence that has been typical in that part of Pakistan. Were are they attacking Christians? No one particularly clear on that, but many speculating, many intelligence sources speculating that it will be linked to the anger in radical Islamics here against the U.S. bombing in Afghanistan, that somehow they are linking Christians here with the U.S.-led alliance bombing Afghanistan, Judy.

WOODRUFF: And Bill, just quickly, sympathies of people you may have talked to in the area go in which direction?

DELANEY: Well, there is a fanatical minority, a small minority here in Pakistan, of course, who are radical Islamics who will find some justification perhaps in their minds for what was done at the Church of Pakistan in southern Pakistan. The vast majority of Pakistanis, including the president, General Pervez Musharraf, expressing really horror at what happened in southern Pakistan yesterday Sunday morning in the middle of a church service.

WOODRUFF: All right. Bill Delaney, reporting for us live from Islamabad, where, as we say, it is now Monday morning. Thank you, Bill, we appreciate it. Some welcome developments tonight out of the Middle East. It concerns the Israeli occupation of two Palestinian towns in the West Bank, Beit Jala and Bethlehem. After more than a week of fighting and numerous appeals from the U.S., Israeli forces began leaving those cities today. The pullout proceeded despite more deadly violence in the region today. Five Israelis were killed in a drive-by shooting. The two Palestinian gunmen were killed by police.

For more details on the Israeli withdrawal and other developments from the Middle East, you can log onto CNN.com.

An expert opinion on the anthrax attacks, plus a new case confirmed in a postal worker. That story when come back.

Also, Arab support for America's war on terrorism. Is Washington winning this key public relations battle? Opinions still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: CNN has confirmed that a facility in Landover, Maryland that handles mail for the Justice Department has tested positive for the presence of anthrax. Also today we learned that a suspected case of inhalation anthrax was confirmed in a New Jersey postal worker.

That makes 13 confirmed anthrax infections, including three people who have died from inhalation anthrax. Five people are being treated for inhalation anthrax along with five others suffering from cutaneous, or skin anthrax. The total number of confirmed anthrax exposures is 32. CNN medical correspondent Rhonda Rowland has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RHONDA ROWLAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been almost one month since the first case of anthrax was discovered and scientists are admitting how little they know about the bacteria.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: What we are learning right now is that the standard textbook characteristics of this, namely opening a letter and it comes up into you and you get inhalation anthrax, finding that people are getting inhalation anthrax in a secondary and maybe even a tertiary site away from where the well-documented anthrax letter was. That is something that was not suspected.

ROWLAND: At the same time, administration officials say it's possible anthrax-tainted letters could still be stuck in the system.

ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Our postal service, the FBI working very hard to understand all they can and we are asking people to be very careful.

ROWLAND: Still, the U.S. postal service wants to reassure the public there's no evidence yet of any new anthrax. JOHN NOLAN, DEPUTY POSTMASTER GENERAL: Since this started we have delivered the equivalent of six pieces of mail to every man woman and child on the face of the earth. Three pieces of mail have shown up with anthrax. ROWLAND: But to be on the safe side, health officials are urging many mail room workers in Washington area businesses to start preventive antibiotic therapy. Instead of Cipro, these workers will be offered another antibiotic, doxicycline of which the government has plenty.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: We have got to get America to understand that they don't have to live in the Cipro world any more. That as long as we are monitoring the strains, and have the antibiotics they can be used effectively and used the same way that we use ciprofloxacin.

ROWLAND: While everyone's mind is on anthrax, health officials are urging the public to think about the flu and preventing it.

(on camera): An alert from top health officials: it's time to get your flu shot. Since symptoms of the flu and inhalation anthrax are similar, getting more people vaccinated against the flu will cut down on emergency room visits and confusion over what the diagnosis really is.

Rhonda Rowland, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Joining me now, that doctor you just saw in Rhonda Rowland's report. He is Dr. Michael Osterholm. He's the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Dr. Osterholm, just to underline what we just heard from Rhonda Rowland, and that is that people should get their flu shots, no question about that?

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Absolutely. We are recommending flu shots again for the same standard groups we had recommended before, and that is basically those over age 50, those who otherwise have immuno compromised condition, some underlying health issue.

We clearly don't have enough vaccine to vaccinate all 285 million Americans right now, so we want to continue to concentrate on those groups that previously should have gotten their flu shot.

WOODRUFF: When you say we don't have enough vaccine, you mean flu vaccine?

OSTERHOLM: Flu vaccine, absolutely. We are going to make about 85 million doses for this year and suddenly if there were a run on it of many young healthy people, we would run out of vaccine for those who are older, who very often have serious complications of flu. We don't want to that to do that this year. WOODRUFF: Let me just be very blunt, Dr. Osterholm. If there are further, and more anthrax attacks, is the U.S. public health system prepared to deal with them?

OSTERHOLM: Well, let me be equally blunt and say we can surely expect there will be additional anthrax attacks. And I think that is one of the things America has to wake up to. I think that over the last couple weeks the media played has played this as each day is a new revelation about more anthrax and, oh, my God, what are we going to do?

We are in a war. And frankly there is no reason we couldn't expect more anthrax to occur out there. I think that as a country, we have to understand that just as the military has a thing called anticipated losses, the horrible thing, and any death is horrible, but the fact is, Americans are going to have to understand, yes, we have to live with this.

Your question, are we prepared for it? I think we are doing much more to prepare for it now than we did months ago, but yes, we have a ways to go and we are working hard to get there.

WOODRUFF: You are telling us, Dr. Osterholm, it is unrealistic to expect that we can just avoid further death and further serious illness from this. Is that what you are saying?

OSTERHOLM: Yes, I am not only saying that, but I think the piece you had on tonight with Major Garrett where people are blaming the CDC for these deaths and these postal workers, I have to tell you, I'm an outsider. I am the one who has been calling for some time for us to tighten up out capabilities to deal with bioterrorism. I have nothing to do with the CDC.

I have been involved with some of the largest outbreak investigations in this country having headed them up. If you had had me in that situation, I couldn't have done anything different either. The CDC did not screw that situation up. The science was clearly, clearly not keeping up with what we found there in terms of transmission of anthrax spores through letters that were not even opened.

And so what I'm really suggesting is we have to get beyond that. We have got to, as a country, understand, people are going to die from this. They are going to continue to die. We are a war right here in our own home shores. And this is why we have support our better public health systems, our medical care systems,the ability to detect this, because whoever has this anthrax has a very powerful weapon and they will continue to use it.

That is not to scare America. That's to say that is the reality and if we don't understand that, we are going to continue each day to feel more and more frightened and we can either live in fear or we can live with fear and I think it is the latter that is going to get us through this situation.

WOODRUFF: On that very sober note, I want to thank Dr. Michael Osterholm, head of the Center for Infectious Disease Research at the University of Minnesota. Again, thank you very much.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

For more information about the anthrax threat and the latest developments in the investigation, you can go to our Web site, CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN.

Key Arab allies say they are onboard, but do people in the Middle East really support the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan? Discussion of Arab public opinion and more when we come back.

And still ahead, the keeper of the Koran: One man's notion protect Islam's holy book.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: There are increasing calls from the Arab world for the U.S. to wrap up its military campaign in Afghanistan, but the Pentagon is saying everyone must be patient.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, DEP. DIR., JOINT CHIEFS: This is a different kind of war that we have ever fought before, and the complexity of it is what the chairman referred to as the most difficult task we have had since the Second World War. And therefore, there's a different way and there is a different time to get this job done, rather than just moving on to the concerns of it's not going quickly enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Joining me now to talk more about Arab public opinion is Hisham Melham. He is the Washington correspondent for the Lebanon- based newspaper "As-Safir," and from Houston, Edward Djerejian. He is director of the Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University.

Hisham Melham, let me start with you. We hear what the political leadership of these Arab nations are saying; what are the people on the streets saying about this war?

HISHAM MELHAM, "AS-SAFIR" NEWSPAPER: There is very little support for the war efforts in Afghanistan. There's muted support from some commentators, but the public opinion, as much as one can gauge public opinion in societies that are not necessarily governed by democratically elected bodies, there is very little support there. People are questioning the aims of the war. People are asking questions about evidence against Osama bin Laden, people say even if Osama bin Laden is guilty, why wage a war on such a poor country?

WOODRUFF: Well, let me just stop you there, because Americans listen to some of this, and say, "wait a minute, 5,000 and more innocent people died a terrible death in this country." Why don't they understand what the United States is doing" MELHAM: Because, again, because it is the United States. The problem is that now, the Americans have discovered the value of public diplomacy, and feel that they have to engage the Arab public opinion and the Muslim public opinion. The problem is the messenger, it's not only the message. And the United States has to climb a huge mountain of grievances, of complaints, of a certain legacy, political legacy in the region.

Obviously nobody can deny the United States the right to self- defense, but the problem is -- and if you want to go back to how people reacted to the bombings in New York, people all -- they were ambivalent in general, unfortunately, and people said maybe the United States now can learn some lessons, maybe the United States can change its policy on the Arab-Israeli conflict. And they use excuses such as, you know, you cannot fight terrorism without defining terrorism, and they give a lot of, you know, excuses like that.

WOODRUFF: Let me ask you, Edward Djerejian, as a former assistant secretary of state, how important should Arab public opinion be in the conduct of this campaign?

EDWARD DJEREJIAN, BAKER INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY: Well, public opinion in the Arab world plays a very important role, as it does in any country, in our own country in political terms. But I think we have to make a distinction here. The overwhelming majority of Arab countries and governments have condemned the September 11 terrorist attacks. President Bush and the administration have very successfully crafted a series of coalitions including Arab countries to condemn the acts of terrorism that occurred and also to give support in various different ways to the campaign against terrorism.

So, at the governmental level there is a realization by the leaders in the Arab world that the United States is not the only target, that these terrorists also have on their agenda their own regimes, and I'm specifically talking, for example, of the Islamic extremists in Egypt who have tried to overthrow the regime, they assassinated Anwar Sadat, Islamics movement within Saudi Arabia, and Osama bin Laden has targeted the Saudi regime itself.

WOODRUFF: Well, given that, Hisham Melham, what could the United States do to try to turn opinion, or is it just too late?

MELHAM: Maybe too late at this stage of the game, so to speak. As I said, the United States is not going to change public opinion by mere words only. I mean, there is a great deal of cynicism in the region. People would say, if the Americans are going to sell us the old sour wine in new bottles, it won't do and we won't buy. And therefore, they would ask for changes in policy.

And I will give you an example: When President Bush talked about a Palestinian state as being part of the final vision of peace in the region, many people were extremely happy with that kind of statement on the part of this president who ignored initially the Palestinian issue in the first few month of his administration.

And also, the United States has to invest in those groups in the region who find it in their own interests to fight terrorism, to believe in pluralism, in democracy, in open government and in transparency. But this will take a long time.

WOODRUFF: Ed Djerejian, what should the United States be doing right now, in anything, to try to persuade the peoples of these countries that it's doing the right thing, or is it just not something that the U.S. can control?

DJEREJIAN: Well, it's certainly something that the United States can take a leadership role on, and is doing. First of all, there is a coherent policy in place. There is a campaign that is not only military, that is only the aspect in Afghanistan vis-a-vis the Taliban and al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, but there's a political strategy in place, which also deals with conflict resolution. There is intelligence, security strategy in place that is looking for international cooperation against global terrorism on such key aspects as we have discussed before, Judy, on your program -- the financial flows.

And I think that a public information campaign, public diplomacy must flow from policy, what the strategy is, and I think there is a very coherent strategy in place that has identified this threat and that has a series of instruments, from the political, economic to security to military.

WOODRUFF: Well, one of the arguments which raises in my mind the question, some are saying the military campaign has had to slow down and pace itself because the diplomatic campaign has not proceeded far enough along, to get all the, if you'll pardon the expression, ducks in a row politically, diplomatically for success on the ground to military success on the ground to matter. Did the military campaign start too soon I guess is one question?

DJEREJIAN: I don't think so, Judy. I think the -- it's a political, military strategy. First of all, the military campaign in the first phase, targeting the Taliban regime, its support of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda, has been carefully calibrated I think intelligently to the complexities of the Afghan political scene.

The bombings, the military actions we have taken have a purpose behind them, which is basically to destroy the Taliban and its structure of support of terrorism, try to get at Osama bin Laden, but at the same time do it in a way that what will emerge is an Afghan political structure that will be broadly representative of the diversity of the Afghan population and the tribes there. So, the military strategy I think has been carefully calibrated to that.

Also, it's been calibrated to keeping these -- realizing the support of the coalition is important.

So it is a very delicate strategy that is in place. And again, we must be patient. There are no quick-fixes in this.

WOODRUFF: Finally, I'm going to ask a question that is unfair and ask you both to answer it quickly: Should this military campaign continue through the holy season of Ramadan? MELHAM: I think it will continue through Ramadan. I think the argument that Muslims don't fight in Ramadan is not correct, historically. I think the campaign will be driven by military considerations and political considerations and not by religious ones.

WOODRUFF: Ed Djerejian?

DJEREJIAN: The precedents are there for war to continue during the month of Ramadan, and the military campaign has to follow its strategic objectives.

WOODRUFF: Ed Djerejian, Hisham Melham, we thank you both. It's good to see you and I appreciate you being with us.

DJEREJIAN: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Our latest developments are up next. Also, deep in the caves of Pakistan, a collectors holy treasure of once discarded words.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. Here are the latest developments. Yet another U.S. government building now linked to the growing spread of anthrax. The Justice Department says that the bacteria has been discovered at an off site facility that processes its mail.

The state of New Jersey has confirmed its first case of inhalation anthrax. The infected woman is a postal worker at the mail processing facility in Hamilton Township. She is hospitalized, and is said to be improving.

Sources tell CNN that former Mujahadeen leader, Abdul Haq, was buried today in Afghanistan. The Taliban executed Haq Friday on spy charges.

In Pakistan, Haq's friends and family gathered for a memorial service. A former colleague says Haq had slipped into Afghanistan to try to persuade several Taliban leaders to defect.

A scene of horror at a Pakistani Christian church. Gunmen opened fire on worshipers Sunday, killing 16 people, including several children. Pakistan's government says Islamic militants are the top suspects.

In the midst of the bloody fighting in Pakistan triggered by the war across the border, one man is quietly carrying on his own secret mission for the sake of posterity. In mountain tunnels near Quetta, he squirrels away copies of Islamic holy writ that he has faithfully collected and shielded from destruction for 20 years. CNN's Amanda Kibel has his story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANDA KIBEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Hajji Walli Mohammed, it all began with the burning of the books.

"Somebody burnt four Korans," he explains. "When I saw these burnt Korans, I felt very bad."

A few days later, Hajji Mohammed had a dream.

"I dreamt," he says, "that I went to the mullas, and I got 53 edicts from them, all of them directing me to begin collecting discarded Korans, or pages of Korans, that had been thrown away. When I woke up," says Hajji Mohammed, "I prayed to God that until my death I would do this, collect old and unwanted Korans and keep them safe."

Hajji Mohammed has been doing exactly this for 25 years now. When he was younger he would travel all over the southwestern Pakistan province of Baluchistan on his bicycle, picking up unwanted Korans wherever he found them. Whether a single page scattered in a graveyard or thrown in the gutter, or an old, unwanted Koran from the madrassa, Hajji Mohammed took them all home.

"These are the words of God," he says, "and they are great because they are the words of God. If people walk on them, or they are in the gutter, it is not good."

When Hajji Mohammed ran out of space for his collection at home, he went looking for a bigger place to store his Korans. And what he found was this mountain. A local businessman agreed to lease this land from the government and excavate a series of tunnels here to store Hajji's collection.

That was 10 years ago. Since then the tunnels in Quetta's Chiltan Mountains have become the only official storage space for old and unwanted Koran pages from all over Pakistan.

Korans which come here and are salvageable are repaired and sent back to mosques. There are now some 65,000 bags of pages here, lining the walls of 12,000 feet of tunnels.

(on camera): The curators of these tunnels say they have been very careful not to allow this site to be infused with any religious or spiritual significance. They say it is simply a storage place for religious relics; a place for them to stay in safety and dignity until time turns them to dust.

(voice-over): Muzafar is one of those curators. He says, in Islam, a Koran should never simply be thrown away like common garbage, and that is what the work here is all about.

MUZAFAR, CURATOR: Don't have any concern with the politics, with the religious leaders, with the other things. It is only for our hearts' satisfaction. There is nothing else.

KIBEL: But wandering around these tunnels, the question comes to mind: If one were to read all the Koranic scriptures in all of these bags, would one find anywhere the Islamic teachings in whose name the attacks of September 11 were allegedly carried out?

Moderate Islamic leaders say no. The word "Islam," they point out, comes from the word "salaam," meaning peace. Refer first, they say, to the Koran, which specifically says: "If anyone murders an innocent person, it will be as if he has murdered the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person, it will be as if he has saved the whole of humanity."

Hajji Mohammed says he doesn't know the details of Koranic teachings. He only cares that Korans should have a suitable resting place. Though he loves the Koran with all his heart, he has never studied it because he has never learned to read.

Amanda Kibel, CNN, Quetta, Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: We have more perspectives on America's struggle against terrorism. In Southern California an Afghan woman and her daughter anxiously watch TV coverage of the war against the Taliban. Her husband is somewhere behind the lines.

And in New York, a memorial service for the thousands killed in the attack September 11. Those stories coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: These are particularly hard times for Afghans that live in the United States. They are far from the war, but they remain close to their culture. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez has the story of one family's sacrifice to help heal a country in pain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the comfort and safety of a Los Angeles suburb, Zarmina Khalili and her daughter Zohra watch the suffering of Afghan children, and news of bombs raining down on what was once their homeland.

ZARMINA KHALILI, ABUL'S HUSBAND: They're my people, of course it hurts. And Afghanistan is my land. I was born there; I was raised there. And of course it hurts.

GUTIERREZ: They watch images of desperate men, women and children on videotape, shot in refugee camps by Zarmina's husband Abul.

KHALILI: He's helping his people and he's giving them the supplies like food, medicine, clothes.

GUTIERREZ: The family says Abul has made the trip to Afghanistan eight times to provide humanitarian relief. She believes he is there now, somewhere in the north.

KHALILI: No communication at all, because there is no way that we can have communication.

GUTIERREZ: Abul left Los Angeles more than a month ago. His wife and children last heard from him when he was about to cross the border into Afghanistan. ZOHRA KHALILI: I'm afraid that he might get killed, but at the same time I know that he's going to make it because he's a very brave man and I'm very, very proud of him.

GUTIERREZ: Once a parking valet, Abul is now the founder of a non-profit charity called Afghanistan Relief Organization. He has distributed donations of food, clothes and medical supplies to refugees since 1998.

ZARMINA KHALILI: He said there's been like times that for 10 days we didn't have food. There's no food, no water, nothing.

GUTIERREZ: Zarmina says these miserable conditions were shot back in March, long before U.S. strikes. The situation now is worse than ever.

ZARMINA KHALILI: "Our homes have been destroyed and we have nothing. And we're just living here under these tents."

GUTIERREZ: The plastic tents, jackets and shoes were donated by Afghan Americans, who say it is now harder to enjoy a meal while so many go hungry.

ZARMINA KHALILI: It's very hard. And it's been like three, four days I haven't slept. And I can't eat, because when I eat, you know, I can't -- it just gets stuck in my throat, because I think that all my people, they are hungry there, and God knows what's going on there right now. And I'm really depressed; really depressed.

GUTIERREZ: 14-year-old Zohra says she is haunted by this image of a 13-year-old Afghan girl.

ZOHRA KHALILI: She was very sick. My dad told me she was very, very deeply hungry.

GUTIERREZ: Abul left the girl's side, visited other children, then returned a few hours later.

ZOHRA KHALILI: When he came back, he found her dead. And when I heard that, I was so shocked, and I couldn't believe that girl died.

GUTIERREZ: The stories are echoed from camp to camp.

ZARMINA KHALILI: I feel sorry for them, and I wonder how they -- how they can live like that. You know, it's not easy to live like that. So I keep wondering that, how they can live like that, you know? It's not easy for them.

GUTIERREZ: And it's not easy on Abul's family, either. They grieve for refugees thousands of miles away and they worry about the man trying to save them somewhere in Afghanistan.

This interview was taped in September, right before he left.

ABUL KHALILI: And I always (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Afghanistan, I pray for myself and for my two daughters, which I love, and for my wife and say, "Goodbye."

ZOHRA KHALILI: If he dies, then when I grow up, I will live on his legacy. I will go to Afghanistan and I will do the same thing as he did.

GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And we will try to find out what happens to Mr. Khalili.

It is one of the costs of war, civilian casualties. Coming up, when going after the enemy leads to deaths of the innocent. Retired General David Grange will discuss this and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: There were intense U.S.-led air strikes overnight, taking out Taliban targets in Afghanistan, but a stray bomb also struck a village near Kabul, killing one woman and injuring several others. Pentagon has said all along it is not targeting civilians. CNN's Chris Burns has more from those caught in the crossfire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Marzakan (ph) and his wife Kokogol (ph) fled here from their frontline village with their two children a month ago. Now, Marzakan's (ph) adopted village is burying his wife, victim of a stray bomb from U.S. airstrikes. Their 4-year-old son was wounded and hospitalized.

"They won't leave me alone," says Marzakan (ph), rejecting interviews with international reporters. "I'm never going to shake hands with those people," he added, "they killed my wife."

More harsh words from an imam. "We are inviting the Americans," he says. "They are bombarding Afghanistan, but we condemn this air strike here." Still, he adds it's because of Osama bin Laden that our people are dying.

At the remains of the shattered mud-brick home, bomb fragments litter the rubble. The clock stopped at 4:25 p.m., when the bomb struck.

A neighbor says he was working on his farm when the bomb hit.

"It was very heavy. It shook the ground terribly," says Shamistan (ph). "I couldn't see anything. There was so much smoke and dust."

The family pictures may have survived, but little else remains unscathed here, including the image of the air strikes.

(on camera): Kokogol (ph) was sawing dresses for a wedding party when the bomb hit, the first to strike a Northern Alliance-held village, testing the resolve of Alliance supporters for an extended air campaign.

(voice-over): Mixed with anger and sadness is the will to understand, at least among some villagers, the house's owner for one.

"It was a mistake," says Abdul Metin (ph). "They should not do this. They should know the line between enemies and friends."

The Northern Alliance, which calls itself the United Front, sees the error as one more reason Washington should work more closely with them to target the Taliban.

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, NORTHERN ALLIANCE MINISTER: We have to coordinate, as I mentioned the other day, that not only these type of mistakes could be prevented but also civilians casualties as a whole.

BURNS: It's not the first time war has struck this village. A Taliban shell destroyed this house -- little consolation for the victims.

And as civilian casualties mount on both sides of the line for the air strikes, the international coalition will face more anger from people like Marzakan (ph).

Chris Burns, CNN, Ghani Khail, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Civilian casualties are a part of any war. For some insight on this and some other military questions we turn now to retired U.S. Army General and CNN military analyst David Grange. He joins us from the University of Tennessee at Knoxville.

General Grange, is the U.S. military doing everything it can to avoid these kinds of casualties?

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I believe so. These reality of war, the sadness of war is that civilians usually are the real victims. Every time you are in some type of a conflict, they are the ones that truly suffer, especially children. I have seen it many times, so have many of my comrades during our military service, and it's very sad.

But our government, our military I believe with all my heart takes every effort to avoid any type of civilian casualties or collateral damage.

WOODRUFF: But at what point -- and I don't know how to ask this question. I'm uncomfortable asking it, but at what point does it make sense not to worry so much about civilian casualties?

GRANGE: A tough question. You have to accomplish the mission. And it's -- but war is a human -- you know, it involves humanity, and it's very tough to not feel the compassion involved in this, but you have to get on and accomplish the mission.

The tough thing in a war like this, there is no distinct lines. There is no front lines in many cases, it's very fuzzy, it's very a porous type of contact lines between enemy and the Taliban and the anti-Taliban forces. Very tough. Plus, you have an adversary that hides, hides among civilians for protection, from air strikes as an example, purposely.

So, there's a lot of responsibility on the adversary as well for these lives that have been lost.

WOODRUFF: You were telling me just a moment ago that the military goes to great risks to avoid, in fact, to avoid hurting or killing civilians.

GRANGE: Absolutely. I recall as a ground soldier -- but also, my fellow Air Force Navy pilots in that, that the rules of engagement, the requirements put great risks on our ability to accomplish our mission, where you actually endanger the pilot, the soldier more than you normally would when you put them in this combat situation because of our concern for that.

WOODRUFF: Finally, General Grange, what do you say to Americans listening to this conversation, who are clearly touched by the story that they just heard?

GRANGE: Well, one is that, you know, we don't target, for one, civilians purposely, not like bin Laden did in New York and Northern Virginia. We do not purposely target civilians, unlike our adversary. And when it does happen, it's truly an accident. I mean, just put yourself in the shoes of a pilot returning to an air base or an aircraft carrier knowing that he by mistake killed civilians, damaged civilian property where he didn't mean to because of a targeting mistake.

Remember that the machine is only as good as the human being operating it and knows -- there is a human factor involved, and humans make mistakes, and it's very sad. We take great efforts to avoid it.

WOODRUFF: And the very fact that we have these kinds of discussions in the United States I think says something about the ethics and the morals involved.

General David Grange, CNN military analyst, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

GRANGE: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: There was a solemn ceremony held today at the site of the World Trade Center ruins.

When we come back, a look at those who gathered to pray, to sing and to mourn.

Also, you are now looking at live pictures from ground zero where recovery efforts have resumed after the memorial service. We have an update just ahead, but first a profile of two New York chefs who started a relief fund for families of restaurant workers lost in the attacks. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): New York's World Trade Center was home to some of America's top financial companies, but it was also home to hundreds of restaurant workers, including employees of the Windows on the World restaurant.

WALDY MALOUF, BEACON CHEF & CO-OWNER: They were in early; they were the dishwashers, the prep cooks, the housekeepers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waldy Malouf, chef and co-owner of the Beacon, a sister restaurant of Windows, says after the September 11 attacks his restaurant shut down, transforming into a gathering place for families of the missing look for comfort and support.

MALOUF: While all this was happening, there was a tremendous amount of support for the police and the rescue workers and the fire department. We start to think that perhaps some of these people would fall through the cracks, and it became apparent that there was a groundswell of emotion and desire to help and do anything they could.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Across town, Tom Valenti, friend and fellow chef of Quest restaurant was sharing these sentiments and brain- storming ways to help.

TOM VALENTI, QUEST CHEF AND CO-OWNER: It occurred to me that as a restaurant owner, I could do something immediately, which would be to simply open the doors and put a sign on a window prizing my guests and customers that on a given night I was going to donate a portion of my proceeds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The idea spread like wildfire, and within days of the attacks thousands of restaurants worldwide had signed up to participate in a Windows of Hope events. Suddenly, the two chefs were donning new hats as organizers of a multi-million-dollar charity fund.

VALENTI: It was very much a grassroots thing gone global. You know, it's been a completely volunteer effort, with the size and the scale that it has become, you know, it becomes a little bit more technical in the handling of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But with the help of numerous volunteers, including attorneys and accountants, Windows of Hope continues toward its goal of providing aid to restaurant workers' families who were left behind.

MALOUF: There was a tremendous outpouring of generosity and people still want to do more and I think it is going to continue for a long time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: This you're looking at is a live picture of the World Trade Center ruins. Recovery and cleanup work has now resumed, after a pause today. More than 9,000 people gathered for a memorial service, surrounded by the smoldering rubble. Many of them wore masks because of the fumes. Now, a look back at the event.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Father in Heaven, we come before you this afternoon as your children who are hurting. We have lost parents, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, husbands and wives, beloved relatives and friends. They were innocent, and they were brutally, viciously, unjustly taken from us.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are gathered here with so many family members, Dear God, and they represent the world community. We have here people who have lost loved ones of all the faiths on planet earth. Let God today hear our plea in this great city and this great country, and let us bring freedom and peace to America and to the world.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman called me this morning with a special request. She said: "I'm going to give birth very soon, but I have not selected a name for my child. Give me the name of someone lost in that tragedy who did not have a child. My child will carry that name." Then she said: "I promise you I will have many more children, because I know there are many more names."

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on the wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(MUSIC)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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