CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
Rev. Paul Shanley, Accused Of Rape, Stands for Extradition
Aired May 3, 2002 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Straight away to San Diego, inside that courtroom the Rev. Paul Shanley now before the judge, the extradition hearing now underway.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were previously advised of the filing of the complaint on the extradition and I've had a copy of the complaint and I've had an opportunity to speak to Mr. Shanley about that. After speaking with Mr. Shanley and advising him of his constitutional rights, I'm going to have a signature of mine, indicating that I've advised him, submit to the court.
After going over his rights related to this issue, Mr. Shanley has chosen to waive any extradition proceedings and proceed back to Middlesex, Massachusetts to take care of this matter, and so I'm going to have him sign in court the waive of extradition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition to his constitutional rights, he has been advised of his rights pertaining to extradition as well?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is correct, your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, and I'll note for the record, I have many media requests this morning, all of which are approved obviously. All right, Rev. Shanley if you would please initial those documents for me this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sign right here. Sign the complaint. Your Honor, he has completed signing all the forms and it is submitted to the Court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, thank you. And I too have signed the applied copies. Rev. Shanley will be held without bail, pending further proceedings in 20 days. The sheriff is ordered to house him separately until he is picked up by the State of Massachusetts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your Honor. That's all I have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen of the press, I appreciate your courtesy and professionalism. Thank you. We will be in recess.
HEMMER: It was quick and it is now over. The Rev. Paul Shanley will not fight extradition back to Middlesex County, Cambridge, Massachusetts after the charges were announced yesterday through the DA's Office there in Cambridge, three counts at this point for allegedly raping a child back during the 1980s.
Jeffrey Toobin our legal analyst now live in New York to take us through the steps at this point.
Any surprise here, Jeff, that essentially there is no argument or fight to be extradited to the other end of the country?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is really a Massachusetts case. This is not a San Diego case. The only issue here in an extradition hearing is, is the Paul Shanley who was arrested the same person who is named in the complaint? There was really no dispute about that. He'll be shipped back to Massachusetts and the real litigation will begin there.
HEMMER: And, Jeff, when we go through this, and we talked about this at great length yesterday, the charges stem, the accuser who was anywhere between the ages of six and 13 at the time, now 24, but due to the law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, it's still -- the statute of limitations essentially, they have not expired in this case.
TOOBIN: That's right. What's so unusual about these child molestation cases is that it often takes a long time for victims to come forward, and states in recent years have expanded statutes of limitations so prosecutors have a longer time to bring cases.
In Massachusetts, the law in regardless of when a child is molested, the statute of limitations is ten years after the person's sixteenth birthday. This accuser is 24 years old, eight years after his birthday, so the case can be brought, even though the abuse took place close to 20 years ago.
HEMMER: There had been many questions throughout the day and even yesterday for that matter, pertaining to the Archbishop Cardinal Law. Could there be repercussions for those wanting to have him exited out of the archdiocese as a result of what's happening or what may transpire in the Shanley matter?
TOOBIN: Well certainly, Law is already a participant in a way in the civil litigation connected to the Shanley case. I know it's hard to keep track of a lot of these names, but there's a young man named Greg Ford whose family is suing the archdiocese for abuse allegedly at the hands of Father Shanley.
Cardinal Law is scheduled to give a deposition in that case, in that civil case in June. The date may move, but he is going to have to explain why Shanley was shuffled around from one parish to another, and more embarrassment for Cardinal Law, obviously more fodder for his critics. HEMMER: Also, just so our viewers know, and we were talking about this yesterday, there are two different cases, as you point out. There's a criminal matter that we're watching unfold her in San Diego. Then there's the civil matter, which was the press conference we saw and watched yesterday afternoon back in Boston.
TOOBIN: Correct. You know it's a little hard to tell the players without a scorecard here, but the key point is Shanley is -- his alleged abuse is at the focus of both cases. The criminal case at this point really only related to Shanley himself. He's the only defendant. The civil case is much more sprawling, much larger in its implications.
HEMMER: Jeffrey, thanks, we'll talk again next hour. Jeff Toobin our legal analyst there live in New York.
Now up to Boston and Jason Carroll, also tracking this from the city of Boston there, where there's a gathering today of priests in the Boston area.
Jason, good afternoon.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good afternoon to you, Bill. I can tell you that a number of people who are connected with this case are going to be encouraged when they hear that Father Paul Shanley will, in fact, be brought back here to Boston. Namely, one person who's going to be very interested in this is Middlesex County's District Attorney Martha Coakley.
Shanley faces three counts of rape of a child. This case actually involves Paul Busa. He's now 24 years old and in an interview given about a couple weeks ago Busa said that Shanley allegedly raped him when he was six years old.
PAUL BUSA, ALLEGED VICTIM: He's a very likeable guy. He's very charismatic, very colorful, and I do -- he used to tell me that nobody would ever believe me, and at six years old, you don't know what he's doing is wrong. I know I didn't like it, but he's a priest. He's not going to do anything he's not supposed to.
CARROLL (voice over): Not only does Shanley face criminal charges, he also faces a civil suit involving Greg Ford. Ford claims that Shanley sexually abused him when he was six years old. This morning, Ford's father told Paula Zahn that Shanley's arrest was an encouraging sign but there's still a lot that has to be done.
RODNEY FORD, FATHER OF ALLEGED VICTIM: I looked at my son and I could see that his eyes brightened up for a minute, but at the same time, my phone was ringing with several victims calling us to thank us. But on the other hand, they were crying. These problems that they're going through just didn't go away over night because Shanley was arrested. They're still dealing with very serious emotional problems now.
CARROLL: The man who was standing with Ford during that interview is Roderick Macleish. That is Ford's attorney, and Macleish still wants to depose Father Shanley with regards to that civil case, and he says it's going to be much easier to do that, now that he knows that Father Shanley is on his way back to Boston. Bill.
HEMMER: Jason, there are some poll numbers that came out late yesterday through CNN, the folks at the Gallup Poll, that indicate Catholics across the board, overwhelmingly in some cases, well over 70 percent according to some of the questions, who essentially do not believe the Catholic Church is handling this in the best manner so far. Are you hearing similar things, the conversations you have on the streets of Boston? You've been there for several days now.
CARROLL: Absolutely. You hear people on both sides of this issue. There are a lot of people here in Boston, who are obviously upset with Cardinal Bernard Law. Father Shanley was here at the archdiocese under Cardinal Law's watch. Many people feel Cardinal Law mishandled this whole priest crisis. They want him removed.
On the flip side of this, there are those who say that Cardinal Law would be the best person to enact reform. So you have people on both sides of the issue, but overwhelmingly most people here in Boston want Cardinal Law to step down.
HEMMER: All right, Jason thank you. Back to San Diego, Bob Locke the DA now meeting with reporters.
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BOB LOCKE, SAN DIEGO DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There's a 30-day period for pickup, for the other state to come. We'll notify them today that they should come within ten days. We'd like to speed the process up. I'm sure they would as well, and so hopefully they'll be here in a ten-day period. If not, there's more time that can be asked form, but I'm sure he'll probably be transported away from our county to the State of Massachusetts very soon.
QUESTION: He'll be arraigned, can you handle all that?
LOCKE: Once he gets to Massachusetts, then he would be facing the criminal charges. What he was facing here was not a criminal charge at all, but a charge that he was a fugitive from the State of Massachusetts. So this matter here is pretty much completed.
QUESTION: Did the judge say that he needs to be held separately while he's here?
LOCKE: The judge did say he was to be held separately in the jail, perhaps because of the nature of the charges, such a celebrated case. When someone's in custody, we have to be concerned about their safety. It's always important when someone is incarcerated to have that concern, and I think it was directed toward that.
QUESTION: I couldn't hear if he said anything. It just looked like he signed the papers. Did he say anything at all from where you were, Bob?
LOCKE: I don't recall him saying anything. What happens is, it's done in open court. There's a form. You didn't see what was written on the form, but essentially he's saying he's informed of the charges that are pending in the other state without admitting any guilt at all, because this is just a procedure to transport him. He was willing to sign waiving a right that he has that would have delayed it.
QUESTION: So what happens now? Does he just stay in jail until he is transported to Boston and then how much more will we see of him in these public hearings?
LOCKE: He'll be held in custody, no bail, here until the other state sends their agents to come and take him over there. There won't be a need for another public hearing here, unless we get to that 20- day check date that the judge set, and that's -- you know, it's a 30- day period, but that 20-day check date is to make sure somebody doesn't get lost in the system, you know, to make sure things are going correctly.
I'm confident we won't be going to that 20-day court hearing, and assuming he's gone by that time, it will just be a real perfunctory matter in court, just to recognize that he would be gone.
QUESTION: Is today the last time the public will ever see Paul Shanley, at least here in San Diego, we hope?
LOCKE: That would be our hope. That's the plan.
QUESTION: Did you speak to him, Mr. Locke?
LOCKE: Did I speak to him?
LOCKE: No, I have no reason to speak to a defendant.
QUESTION: OK, I didn't know. Have you spoken to authorities in Boston? Do you have any idea when they might be coming out here?
LOCKE: I'm sure they're going to be here soon, once we notify them, but we wouldn't speak about the times, security reasons. Transporting prisoners, we wouldn't be specific about that anyway.
QUESTION: Can you spell your name for us, please.
LOCKE: Locke, L-O-C-K-E.
HEMMER: All right, Bob Locke, the DA there in San Diego. As he says, this matter is completed relative to San Diego anyway. Jeffrey Toobin indicating that to us as well, but there's a matter back in Massachusetts. At what point he's extradited, we do not know, but apparently we saw it live.
The Rev. Paul Shanley, retired Roman Catholic priest, charged yesterday with three counts of raping a child, has signed those papers, which essentially opens the door for him to be sent back to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
And, as we look at the poll numbers too, a new poll showing strong support among Catholics for removing men from the priesthood after a single proven incident of sexual abuse.
CNN/USA/Gallup Poll numbers also finding that Catholics and non- Catholics alike believe the Catholic Church has done a bad job of handling cases involving sex abuse.
On that score, 86 percent of Catholics say the bishops who failed to report such abuse should be removed by the Pope. Nearly seven in ten Catholics said Boston's Cardinal Law should be removed as archbishop.
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