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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Did Runnion's Abductor Make a Prior Attempt at Another Girl?; Morse's Parents Defend Their Son; Landlord Secretly Videotapes Tenant
Aired July 18, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, did a serial killer have a trial run before snatching Samantha Runnion? And is he getting ready to strike again?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please watch your children. Every second. Don't let them out of your sight. Especially now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Manhunt, the search for the man who killed Samantha Runnion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a sexual predator. Perhaps a serial sexual predator, and perhaps even a serial killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, two young girls step forward. Did they have an encounter with the same suspect?
Indicted, Inglewood Police Officer Jeremy Morse for the beating of a handcuffed teen. Tonight, his family comes to his defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my only concern right now. Is to be there for him and stand up for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Watched and secretly taped in her own bedroom by her landlord.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had been videotaped in my bedroom without my knowledge.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: Is it legal? You bet. Could it happen to you?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nominations in the lead actress in the drama series category are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Here we go again. Another awards show. Today's Emmy nominations has America saying, do we really need more of this?
This guy says, yes.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN broadcast center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. Tonight, we're going to talk to two young girls who might, just might, have narrowly escaped a brush with the serial killer, the same man who killed 5-year-old Samantha Runnion this week. We'll talk with them and their family about the man who approached them in just a moment.
But first, their story is only one of many leads police are tracking down tonight. Police still fear the killer will strike again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MICHAEL CARONA, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: We were very concerned that this individual could strike again in a relatively short period of time. Whether it's 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, a week, two weeks, this individual is a sexual predator that has a sexual deviancy. Based upon our understanding of that predator and his deviancy, and the fact that he's killed once, there's a probability that he will again recidivate in terms of his sexual deviancy and may recidivate in terms of killing somebody. The public needs to be aware of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tonight, CNN's David Mattingly is on the story in Stanton, California -- David.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Connie. The quote coming out of the news conference today is that there is a significant number of substantial leads. Reports are that there are potential suspects that authorities are looking at, some with histories of child sexual abuse. But at this point, they're very cautious and being very important for us to tell you that there are no connections, no confirmed connections between any of these potential suspects and this case so far.
They're also working on thousands of tips. That's right, thousands of tips, more than 1,000 coming from the public, and the police here virtually deputizing everyone in Southern California to be their eyes and ears in this case -- Connie.
CHUNG: David, there is a report earlier...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARONA: A perfect example, though, of why we want the public to continue to call. This was a 911 cellular call into the CHP. The CHP within moments was able to identify the vehicle, make a car stop. An arrest was made because of the way this individual reacted when the officer tried to pull him over. And more importantly, some other evidence that was found in the car that may or may not be linked to the Samantha Runnion case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: That arrest he was talking about, Connie, was something happened earlier today in Fresno, California. What we're told is that there was an erroneous report from one news agency that that arrest was linked to the murder investigation. We're told that that's not true. In fact, authorities are cautioning the news media at this hour not to jump to conclusions when someone is being asked questions about this case.
CHUNG: David, has anyone said whether or not the suspect or the killer is believed to be still in California?
MATTINGLY: They are very confident right now that the killer is still in Southern California. But at the same time, they're talking about expanding the net that they have cast, going from Southern California to statewide, region wide, even nationally if necessary.
CHUNG: Now, David, the sheriff has consistently said that he believes that this person will strike again, and repeated that today. Can you give us any more insight into that?
MATTINGLY: Well, because of the nature of this crime, because of how the killer seemed to act impulsively, and the condition of the body as they found it when they found Samantha's body a couple of days ago, they're able to determine just based on profiles of the past that this is someone who might do this again. That's why they want to keep everyone informed and warned of this possibility.
CHUNG: All right. CNN's David Mattingly in Stanton, California.
We're joined now by a 13-year-old girl who might, just might, have escaped Samantha Runnion's fate one month ago. A man matching the description of Samantha Runnion's abductor asked her for help finding his chihuahua. Her name is also Samantha. Samantha Marez. She asked her older sister, Ashton, what to do. And Ashton also joins us, along with her father, Samuel.
Thank you all so much for being with us. Samantha, first question to you. It was about a month ago. You and your sister were outside right around your neighbor's driveway. A man drives up in a green car. And what did he say to you? SAMANTHA MAREZ, ASKED BY MAN TO HELP HIM FIND HIS CHIHUAHUA: Well, he said, "have you seen a little dog, chihuahua?" And then he kept on -- he said there was a really big reward. But then, we told him no, but he constantly and constantly kept on asking us if we can come in his car and help him find it. And then, I said, we couldn't do that because my parents, you know, always told us to not to go in other people's cars. And after he kept on asking us if we could go in his car, I turned to my older sister, Ashton, asked her, "what should I do?" And she told the man that if we see the dog, then we'll see if you come back and we'll tell you.
CHUNG: Tell me, Samantha, were you scared?
S. MAREZ: Well, at first I really wasn't, because I thought it was just an ordinary person looking for their dog, but after he kept on asking me if I can go in the car with him, I started getting worried.
CHUNG: Did he seem strange to you?
S. MAREZ: I have never seen him before, but he told us that he lived in the area and he will be coming back.
CHUNG: And that he will be coming back?
S. MAREZ: Yeah.
CHUNG: Meaning he would drive by again?
S. MAREZ: I don't really know what he meant. He just told us that he would be coming back.
CHUNG: All right. Ashton, you weren't very far, just a few feet away from your sister and the man. Can you describe what he looked like?
ASHTON MAREZ, SAYS MAN MATCHES SUSPECT'S DESCRIPTION: Well, in the picture that I've seen in the newspaper and on the bulletin boards outside, it matched almost perfectly except for he didn't have hair at the time. The moustache...
CHUNG: You mean the composite drawing it looked very much like...
A. MAREZ: Yeah. It looked very much alike.
CHUNG: OK. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead and continue.
A. MAREZ: Well, it looked very much alike. It was almost identical except for the fact that the guy I saw didn't have hair at the time, but other than that, there were not very many differences.
CHUNG: All right. So that means he had a mustache, as well?
A. MAREZ: Yes. He had a thin, black mustache.
CHUNG: What was he wearing?
A. MAREZ: He had a white tank top on, but because I didn't go up to the door of the car, I really didn't see inside. All I saw was the fact that he had a white tank top on. And on his right shoulder, he had a tattoo, but I was too far to tell exactly what it was.
CHUNG: All right. Also, another part that you said that his face was -- I mean, his head was bald-ish. Is that correct?
A. MAREZ: Yes. He had no hair that I could tell.
CHUNG: OK. About how old do you think he was?
A. MAREZ: Between 30, early 40s, late 30s. He looked older.
CHUNG: Samantha, were you close enough to tell as to whether or not he had alcohol on his breath, or what might have been in his car?
S. MAREZ: Well, I wasn't that close. I was, like, I could see what he was wearing, and in the back of his car he had like a black suitcase sort of type bag. And I couldn't tell if he had anything else. Like all I saw was that he had a shirt on and that he was looking to see if we can go with him.
CHUNG: What kind of car was he driving?
S. MAREZ: Like, a green, like, a green turquoise car.
CHUNG: Can you describe -- wasn't it a hatchback? You said it was a hatchback?
S. MAREZ: Yeah. Yeah.
CHUNG: Ashton, did you notice anything about that car? I mean, because the reports regarding Samantha Runnion's abduction said that they thought the car might be a Honda or an Acura.
A. MAREZ: Well, see, a lot of my friends have Hondas, and the car that I remember was not a Honda. It had more of a hatchback and like a lower type of hood, but it did not -- the color matched, but not the type of car.
CHUNG: All right. I want to talk to your father. Mr. Marez, can you tell me, your heart must be skipping a beat thinking that maybe your daughters had seen the very man who killed Samantha Runnion.
A. MAREZ: Very much so. Very much so. At first, when we heard about it, naturally you think of a puppy or dog, someone looking for something. So, you don't think much of it. But, as you know, with this happening, it really came to heart knowing that my family could have been in danger. And with that, my love and care goes out for that little child's family right now that has to go through this because I may have had to gone through that same thing myself.
CHUNG: About a month ago, did your daughters tell you about this incident?
A. MAREZ: They kind of told me, yes, and they mentioned it to us. We talk very freely and openly about everything, family problems or anything. And they did say that someone did drive up and came and they were looking for a puppy. It didn't sound too suspicious, of course. We live in a neighborhood with dogs. We have a dog that gets out sometimes, and we're around asking people also, you know, if you've seen our dog. So, at the time, I wasn't too suspicious about it.
As time went on, of course, this happened and we started putting things together. And the other night, we were at my little son's birthday and we started realizing that everything there was all much too suspicious not to say anything. So, we went to the police department.
CHUNG: And this was after Samantha Runnion's body was found?
A. MAREZ: Yes, ma'am.
CHUNG: I believe that CNN's Ann McDermott actually spoke with you and discovered that indeed this is what happened.
A. MAREZ: Yes. She did. We were playing at a park and she walked up, asked if she could film us. And we said, no problem. And that's when everything started coming out.
CHUNG: All right. And that's when you went to the police and told them your story?
A. MAREZ: Yes.
CHUNG: Thank you so much. We really appreciate all of you being with us and we're glad that you're safe, safe and sound, Samantha and Ashton. Thank you.
A. MAREZ: Well, thank you for having us on the show.
S. MAREZ: Thank you.
CHUNG: OK.
We're going to bring in Orange County assistant sheriff George Jaramillo right now, and the assistant sheriff. Are you there? Can you hear me?
GEORGE JARAMILLO, ASSISTANT SHERIFF, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: Yes, I am, Connie. Good evening.
CHUNG: Good. Good evening. Did you hear my interview just then with the Marez family?
JARAMILLO: I did. I caught a good portion of it.
CHUNG: All right. Do you believe that this could be the same man who abducted Samantha Runnion? JARAMILLO: Well, it certainly could be. It's within the realm of possibility, but it just as easily may not be. And one of the things that we're cautioning the public and the media to do is to let's make sure we cast and maintain a very broad net to search for this horrible criminal.
CHUNG: But your investigators have spoken to the Marez family, Right?
JARAMILLO: I'm not exactly certain if they've spoken to that family or not. We have spoken to thousands of people and pursued more than 1,000 leads. And so, they may have been spoken to. It's a good possibility.
CHUNG: All right. Have you detained or questioned anyone? Bring us up to date?
JARAMILLO: Yes. We have detained several people and we've questioned even more. The difference between detaining somebody and questioning them, the difference between stopping somebody that's driving a green car that matches the general description and actually focusing on a suspect and making arrest is huge. And so, while we're confident that we will make an arrest, for the time being, it's just investigating the myriad of leads that are coming in.
CHUNG: So, just to confirm, there have been no suspects arrested?
JARAMILLO: There have been no suspects arrested, and we have not yet focused upon one suspect. In other words, we haven't identified an individual by name and not made an arrest. So, no one to focus upon and no suspects arrested.
CHUNG: Once again, you said what about identifying a particular person, what did you say?
JARAMILLO: In other words, we haven't focused our investigation solely on one individual. We're still following up on leads.
CHUNG: OK. You have not.
JARAMILLO: That's right.
CHUNG: All right. What more have you learned about the killing of Samantha Runnion? I mean, any more information that's being -- if it's helpful to you?
JARAMILLO: Well, there's quite a bit of information. First of all, it was a very sloppy crime. There was a lot of evidence that was left behind for us to sift through. There was an awful lot of forensic evidence that we're still going through. Additionally, the individual has to be out there with somebody. Somebody has to know him. He must have changed his pattern of behavior. Perhaps he is missing work.
We know that more than likely, he's no longer driving that green car that we have keyed on. And so, somebody out there has to have some shred of information about this individual they can call us with, and it will help us to identify him, locate him, and arrest him.
CHUNG: All right. George Jaramillo, assistant sheriff for Orange County, thank you so much.
Still ahead, Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse was arraigned today. We'll ask his parents how their son wound up facing an assault charge. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, the Inglewood police officer indicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Jeremy's eyes, there's right and there's wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Connie talks with the parents of officer Jeremy Morse when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Jeremy Morse, the Inglewood police officer seen on a videotape hitting a black teenager during an arrest found himself in court today. The charge: assault. The plea: not guilty. He and a fellow officer from the incident two weeks ago were both arraigned today. CNN's Frank Buckley is on the story in Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inglewood police officers Bijan Darvish and Jeremy Morse appeared in court after a grand jury indicted both in connection with this videotaped arrest. Morse, the officer seen slamming 16-year-old Donovan Jackson against the car, then hitting him, was charged with assault by a police officer. Darvish, his partner, was charged with filing a false report.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Mr. Morse, how do you plead, sir?
JEREMY MORSE, INGLEWOOD POLICE: Not guilty, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Mr. Darvish, how do you plead, sir?
BIJAN DARVISH, INGLEWOOD POLICE: Not guilty.
BUCKLEY: Attorneys for both men said they were confident the officers would eventually be acquitted, and that surveillance videos from the gas station where the incident took place will show officers acted within the law.
JOHN BARNETT, MORSE'S ATTORNEY: It was a proper, reasonable use of force given the circumstances. And I think when all the evidence is in, when both videos are shown, that that's what the facts will show.
BUCKLEY: But District Attorney Steve Cooley, who swiftly brought the case before a grand jury, said officers know that a handcuffed suspect should not be hit.
STEVE COOLEY, L.A. COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There's a bright line when the handcuffs go on. That is very definitive. And that's just an observation as a general rule. And I think the rest of the case will be played out in court, and I think that might be something that will be a core issue.
BUCKLEY: The indictment does not specify how Darvish allegedly falsified his report. Nor does it say exactly how Morse allegedly abused his authority.
But Morse's attorney says the three-year veteran of the Inglewood Police Department struck Jackson only after the teenager grabbed his testicles.
JOHN BARNETT, ATTORNEY FOR JEREMY MORSE: And that certainly justifies a punch in the face.
BUCKLEY: Jackson later appeared with his new attorney, former O.J. Simpson lawyer Johnnie Cochran, who applauded the indictments.
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: I think it sends a strong message that when these kind of things happen, a police officer should tell the truth. And we have to be concerned about changing the culture of these communities so that the bad police officers fear the good police officers, and not vice versa.
BUCKLEY (on camera): The two officers in this case, meanwhile, now stand charged with felonies. Both of them posted bail, and neither will spend any time behind bars unless they are convicted.
Their trial is still months away. But if a jury finds them guilty, both could spend up to three years in state prison.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And still ahead: What do these people, the parents of Inglewood Police Officer Jeremy Morse, have to say about the charge against their son?
We'll find out in a few moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Throughout the controversy over that videotaped arrest almost two weeks ago, we've never heard from the Inglewood police officer at the center of the firestorm. Officer Jeremy Morse was arraigned today on an assault charge. He has pleaded not guilty, but he has not spoken publicly. Tonight, we're joined by Officer Morse's mother and stepfather, Robin and Roger Pettit who are in Kennewick, Washington state. Good evening, Roger and Mrs. Pettit. Thank you for being with us.
ROBIN PETTIT, MOTHER OF INGLEWOOD PD OFFICER JEREMY MORSE: Hi, Connie.
ROGER PETTIT, STEPFATHER OF INGLEWOOD PD OFFICER JEREMY MORSE: Hi, Connie.
CHUNG: Mrs. Pettit, I want to start with you. Your son turned himself in today and he pleaded not guilty. Have you talked to him?
ROBIN PETTIT: Yes, I have.
CHUNG: Tell me what he said to you, what his mood was?
ROBIN PETTIT: Well, basically, we fully expected this with all of the public pressure on this case, with the mayor coming out on the very first day the video was showing and stating that, you know, he would be charged with a felony. He already knew that this would happen. So he expected it. Still, it's pretty tough for an officer to have to go into a courtroom on an assault charge, and so he was pretty shaken up about that.
CHUNG: Well, he had always wanted to be a police officer. I know it was his dream. So it had to be very difficult for him to be on the other side of the law.
ROBIN PETTIT: Absolutely. He was passionate about being a public servant, about being a police officer. It was his dream, and it was his career. And it was his goal throughout life. So, he knows that's over for him, and that's the most difficult part.
CHUNG: He believes his career is over as a police officer?
ROBIN PETTIT: Well, with all the public pressure that he's been receiving, we don't know -- basically, the liability with this case is just really high.
CHUNG: Mr. Pettit, your son -- your stepson had called you right after the incident. What did he say?
ROGER PETTIT: When Jeremy called me, he just -- he had told me that there was an incident that took place at work that day, and he said it wasn't any big deal. Everything was going to be OK. And I mean, he was confident about that at the time.
CHUNG: Did he think he had done anything wrong?
ROGER PETTIT: At the time, no. He did not.
CHUNG: Well, I mean, did he call you because he was upset about something, or was it -- was there another reason why he had called?
ROGER PETTIT: He called because he's a good kid. CHUNG: All right.
ROGER PETTIT: He calls.
CHUNG: Did he explain what happened? Did he describe it to you?
ROGER PETTIT: Connie, he did. And right now, we're not at liberty to say.
CHUNG: Actually, in the past, you had described it, and I think in interviews you have said that he said that he was grabbed by the suspect and he responded by hitting the suspect. Isn't that correct?
ROGER PETTIT: He was -- he was grabbed in the testicles. Which any response would be -- if he grabbed me in the testicles, I'm going to hit you. I mean, that's a reaction that any man would do. And I stand behind him 100 percent.
CHUNG: Mrs. Pettit, looking at the tape, do you think that your son was using excessive force?
ROBIN PETTIT: Well, first of all, I don't know if any of us can really define legally what excessive force is to a police officer. That's still something that's really vague to me. I believe Jeremy knows what excessive force is, because he was taught that through the Inglewood Police Department through the past six years. I believe that he would not go beyond those limits of excessive force under the law.
CHUNG: Well, if he used more force than necessary, whom do you blame?
ROBIN PETTIT: Well, I mean, I don't know if he's used more force than necessary, so I don't even know how to answer that question.
CHUNG: Well, I know we've chatted a bit certainly with Mr. Pettit, and the indications I was getting was that it was the police department, as you just said, who had trained him. And if indeed he was a little heavy handed, then it is the police department who trained him.
ROBIN PETTIT: Well, basically, he has been trained by Inglewood's Police Department. They have had him since he was 18 years old. He was 18 to 21 as a cadet. He went through the Police Academy and then became a veteran police officer on the Inglewood police force. So I do believe that the mayor has to take responsibility there, yes.
CHUNG: Mr. Pettit, your son said that he had reviewed, according to you, you had said earlier that your son had reviewed the surveillance tape. Will that support his contention that he was using reasonable force?
ROGER PETTIT: I think that when the video -- when the other videotape comes out, it's going to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the officers. I mean, they're going to -- we have a half of a tape here, and that's what everybody's seen. And half of a tape, you can make anything seem not real. It's a political movement that's come upon our son, and it's a sad day in America when all he was doing was his job, protecting the people of Inglewood.
CHUNG: Just to clarify, are you saying that that surveillance tape is going to clear your son?
ROGER PETTIT: I haven't seen it, Connie. I don't know. I mean, all I can -- all I can do is say that Jeremy, I don't think, is going to need another tape to be cleared. Once that they -- that the system that should have took place in the beginning takes place, in the courtroom, I think both officers did their job well.
CHUNG: But you said earlier that Jeremy has seen the tape. Does he believe it will clear him?
ROBIN PETTIT: We can't really respond to that, what Jeremy thinks. We can tell you what we think. But there is another tape out there. And that will be a part of the case, absolutely.
CHUNG: All right. Mrs. Pettit, do you think this is a case about race?
ROBIN PETTIT: Absolutely not. I believe that the media sensationalized this tape. They took the tape and put it out and they knew that it would provoke emotions in the American public. I believe that was irresponsible on the media's part.
Right now, we're in the middle of a tragedy in this country. Has everybody forgot about 9/11? We need our police officers. We need these people. And for the media just to put out a half truth like that, you didn't put out -- not you -- the media didn't put out the report or anything else to go with that.
So, what I've seen as a mother and as a citizen of this nation is a tape, very short tape showing this officer doing things that made no explanation, and so did all of our children. And then, what it did, it incited rallies, it incited our nation to divide each other. Right now, as America, we need to come together.
CHUNG: All right.
ROBIN PETTIT: And this is really the sad part of this.
CHUNG: Mr. and Mrs. Pettit, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.
And still ahead -- we'll look at today's Emmy announcements in a way "Entertainment Tonight" wouldn't dream of. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next, he sees you when you're sleeping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no law protecting me from that. And he'll probably walk. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: How do you know you aren't being secretly videotaped by your landlord? CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: When you get home and shut the door behind you, do you assume your privacy is assured? Well, not so fast; 28-year-old Stephanie Fuller made the same assumption about her apartment in Bay Shore, New York until her boyfriend found something the landlord put in the ceiling. It changed her world, and may lead to a change in state law.
She's told her story to "Glamour" magazine, and now Stephanie and her boyfriend, Joe Furland join to tell their story. And also with us, CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. We'll talk to him in just a few minutes. Landlord William Schultz (ph) and his attorneys declined our invitation to appear.
Stephanie, thank you, Joe, for being with us. Stephanie, you were moving into a new apartment and you were really excited. Was everything OK the first month or did you detect something was a little strange?
STEPHANIE FULLER, SUING LANDLORD FOR SECRETLY TAPING HER: I always had a feeling like I was being watched or like somebody...
CHUNG: You really did?
FULLER: Yes.
CHUNG: But why?
FULLER: I don't know why. I don't know what made me feel that way. Maybe because I lived at home for so long and there were six people, and all of a sudden I was by myself. So, a lot of times I'd come home and I'd just feel weird. And I could never really explain it. And Joe would always tell me, you know, you just have to get used to it. It's, you know, a new home and it will take some time.
CHUNG: So then let's go to that particular Friday night. You thought you were hearing something.
FULLER: Yes. When I went to bed around 11:30, and I kept hearing this noise, and it just got louder and louder and louder.
CHUNG: What did it sound like?
FULLER: It actually to me sounded like someone was trying to break into the apartment from my bedroom window.
CHUNG: So, you called Joe?
FULLER: So, yes, I called Joe. And I had like an escape plan and everything and I'm waiting for him to get there. And by the time he got there...
CHUNG: And, Joe, what did you find?
JOE FURLAND, FULLER'S BOYFRIEND: Well, I went over and I just investigated, looked around the house. And then I remembered she had an attic above her bedroom. So I cleaned out the closet, went up into the crawlspace. And that's when everything happened. I ended up finding these wires, and a little peculiar. So, I investigated them. And they dove down right between the joists in the ceiling into an open part of the sheetrock. It just didn't make any sense to me. So, when I came down, that's when I discovered there was a camera in the smoke detector.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh. And what did you think, Stephanie?
FULLER: I couldn't believe it. I was shocked.
CHUNG: Did you figure out who had put it there?
FULLER: I just automatically assumed that it was Billy and, at that point...
CHUNG: The landlord?
FULLER: Yes. At that point, I thought, well, he did work in my bathroom. You know, was it there? I couldn't even -- Joe had to call 911. I couldn't even talk.
CHUNG: And what was going through your mind?
FULLER: I felt so violated. I felt like how -- who could do this? You know, how could somebody enter into my bedroom without even me knowing that they were there?
CHUNG: So, what do you think he was able to see? Have you seen the tapes?
FULLER: No, I have not seen the tapes. This is a form of visual rape and it's hard to deal with it emotionally and I'm just not ready to view the tape. You know, I know that it -- the tape is pretty much was on my bed. He actually moved the smoke detector a few inches to get a better angle. So, he did that after we painted because he left the marks in the ceiling.
CHUNG: So, basically, his view was your bed?
FULLER: Yes.
CHUNG: Joe, did you think, I mean, there was anything that Stephanie could do about this?
FURLAND: At the point when we found it or...
CHUNG: I mean, later. As you realized what had occurred, did you say to yourself, this is -- I've got to have an avenue to help Stephanie out and to... FURLAND: Well, the weirdest thing that happened was when I came down, I started speculating in my mind what it could have been. So I told Stephanie actually when I came down, don't worry about it. It was nothing. So, when she walked out of the room, when I pulled it down, I just found a smoke detector. I mean, the thoughts that run through your head is just...
FULLER: We both were just completely shocked. I mean, I don't remember from the point of calling 911 to them getting there. I just remember 911 being there.
FURLAND: Yes.
CHUNG: Did you confront the landlord?
FULLER: No. I have not seen him. The last time I saw him was 6:00 that afternoon.
CHUNG: So what did you do? I mean...
FULLER: Well, at first, I didn't want anybody to know that it was me. I mean, this is -- it was humiliating. It was -- I can't even describe the feeling. It's just like being raped but only not physically. So I didn't want anyone to know that it was me. And then when I found in January that this wasn't against the law, I couldn't even believe it.
CHUNG: All right. This is when we bring in Jeffrey Toobin. I can't believe it either. I can't believe that this is not against the law.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's not entirely clear that it isn't against the law. The landlord is being prosecuted for criminal trespass. He says the charges should be dismissed because criminal trespass doesn't cover this kind of behavior.
Oddly enough, I didn't know this, but there have been several cases around the country of landlords or people installing these secret cameras. They have been prosecuted under a variety of theories, trespasses, one, burglary is another. But four states, I believe, have made it illegal, I mean, have clearly established a new crime. And I know Stephanie is trying to get New York to pass that kind of crime. But it's just one of those classic examples of how technology moves faster than law. You know, these laws are passed around the turn of the century. How could you think that might happen?
CHUNG: Have any of those cases been adjudicated and have these tenants won?
TOOBIN: A handful of people have been prosecuted for extremely minor offenses. It's in misdemeanors or less. And this even is a misdemeanor he's being prosecuted for here. So, it's not very heavy penalty anyone's gotten. But I think, you know, the article in "Glamour" and this are bringing the subject to public attention, and legislatures are starting to create specific laws that say you can't do this.
CHUNG: Now, the incredible thing about this, and we have dealt with this in the news business, is that an audio recording would be against the law.
TOOBIN: Well, as Linda Tripp taught us all, it's legal in some states, and not legal in others. That is the, you know, the parallel here. But some states make audio surveillance legal, but not video. The laws are a real patchwork quilt, and we don't know. There is no uniform standard, and that's what Stephanie, I guess, is trying to do.
CHUNG: That's right. So, Stephanie, you're literally trying to change the law?
FULLER: Yes. And I'm going around New York state talking about the need for the law. When 6-year-old girls can be videotaped by their teacher and there is no law to help protect us and our children, then, you know, why are we protecting these perverts? I can't believe that he is going to walk from this, and our legislators aren't passing the law. I mean, there has been a bill that's been sitting in committee on the New York legislature since 1998.
CHUNG: What are her chances, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: Well, the dispute in the legislature is over apparently the sentence. The state Senate, which is Republican, wants it to be a felony. And the assembly, which is Democratic hands, I believe, wants it to be a misdemeanor. And because they haven't been able to work out the differences, there's simply no law in the books.
FULLER: The assembly hasn't even voted on it.
TOOBIN: Well, that's right. So, the...
FULLER: They haven't even taken the law out of committee.
TOOBIN: So, at the moment, prosecutors have to try to shoehorn this offense into other categories like trespass. But, you know, that always is a stopgap measure at best.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you so much for being with us, Stephanie, Joe, Jeffrey Toobin.
FULLER: Thank you.
FURLAND: Thank you.
CHUNG: Always great to have you with us.
TOOBIN: It's always good to be here.
CHUNG: And just to remind you, we invited the landlord, William Schultz and his lawyer to appear tonight, but they all declined.
And next, how we really feel about all those awards shows right after this. ANNOUNCER: Up next...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four nominees for the mini-series category are...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Get ready to roll out the red carpet again and again and again. Can't get enough of award shows? Neither can Anderson Cooper. He'll join Connie when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The primetime Emmy Award nominations were announced this morning, and one of the big nomination winners: "Six Feet Under," my favorite program.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a great show.
CHUNG: A show about undertakers. Now what kind of a statement is that?
Even though the awards won't be presented for weeks, Anderson Cooper is feeling celebratory.
Good evening Anderson.
COOPER: I am. I'm very excited about the Emmy Awards.
CHUNG: You are? Why?
COOPER: I love award shows. You know, it was fun.
Actually, I liked watching -- I even like to watch them announce the award show. It was fun this morning -- i don't know if you saw...
CHUNG: I did.
COOPER: They announced the nominees this morning. They do it really early in the morning so that news shows will give the Emmys a lot of free publicity. But I like it because it means the celebrity announcers have to wake up really, really early which, for a celebrity, is almost as tough as having to work for a paycheck.
Now the Emmys themselves, however, not all that exciting, except the Daytime Emmys when they toyed with Susan Lucci all those years. That was good.
Basically the Emmys are the same stars, same shows year after year, in my opinion.
CHUNG: Which ones do you like the best?
COOPER: Oh, there's so many, it's hard to figure it out. CHUNG: I can't believe I'm asking you this.
COOPER: There aren't nearly enough of these awards shows, if you ask me.
I can't get enough of stars feeling smug and congratulating one another on how important they are. Where else but awards shows do you get to see stars at the apex of their narcissism? Plus we get to hear them babble, often unintelligibly, read awkwardly from teleprompters and dress ridiculously.
Awards shows prove that no matter how much money, power, or how good your dermatologist is you, too, can still make a fool of yourself.
Besides, without awards shows, how would Dick Clark earn a living? Now, studies have shown he doesn't need food or other sustenance to survive, but preservation on his scale is not cheap.
No, if anything, there should be more awards shows. You could have a whole slew of awards shows. You can have the Johnny Depp awards honoring stars who've foolishly had their lover's name tattooed on their bodies.
I admit, this year it would be a pretty tough race between Angelina Jolie and Charlie Sheen. But hey, I think Jolie would take it.
There's tons of shows that could be done, Connie.
CHUNG: All right: your very, very, favorite one?
COOPER: Man, you're putting me on the spot. You're good. You're good, Chung.
It's hard to say, but the soap opera awards are pretty sublime. But my favorites are the mystery awards that I can't figure out, like the World Music Awards in Monaco.
And I've watched this for 19 years now, and I still cannot figure out what the hell it is. I think it's something Prince Albert dreamed up one day while sniffing brandy and playing baccarat. I don't know if they offer the stars free drugs or booze or what, but they sure do get a lot of celebrities to show up, which isn't easy, considering most of them don't even know where Monaco is.
I used to love the Academy Awards, but ever since they got rid of Debbie Allen's dance numbers, it's just not the same. I don't think it's a coincidence the ratings have been dropping. You see the year she choreographed interpretive dances for all the best picture dances? I'm a star, breaking the chains to dance.
CHUNG: It was good. It was very good.
No, that was good.
COOPER: I worked with Allen for years in a little touring company we did.
CHUNG: OK, so anything else you want to say?
COOPER: I could go on.
I don't think -- there's a few things about these shows that I don't like, which I should just say. There's -- like the Independent Spirit Awards. I don't like that show. It's basically -- it's the same week as the Oscars, and it's meant to salute the films and the filmmakers who work outside the studio system. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Translation: the movies are badly lit, they have no guns, no explosions, they don't play at a multiplex near you. Independent Spirit Awards are like the alternate prom for kids who thought they were too cool to go to the real prom, but deep down inside they wished they were dancing at a big, fancy party.
The only bad thing about all these awards shows -- and this is, you know, my own personal opinion -- the worst thing about the awards shows are the twin rivers of scorn otherwise known as Joan and Melissa. I've been out of the office today. The memo was sent around appointing Joan Rivers and her tag-along demon spawn, arbiters of hate.
I'm sorry, the rules specifically state in my book that if you have your nose whittled away to a sliver and there's more botulism in your face than there is in the river Ganges, you don't get to judge other people's taste. It's true; it's in my book, page 34.
Now, I don't know if there's reincarnation, but this bitter bunch make me really hope there is because when that big old Dharma wheel spins around, all the meanness they've been spewing out for years is going to come right back at them.
Remember Joan and Melissa, sometimes karma ain't kind.
CHUNG: You know what I love the most?
COOPER: Who?
CHUNG: No, no -- when you went -- what you just did to Joan and Melissa.
COOPER: No, no, it meant -- it was said with love...
CHUNG: Yes, right.
COOPER: I want to help them. I want to help them overcome their problems.
CHUNG: Anderson, I love you. I'm loving you. I really am. Thank you. You got to come back.
COOPER: I will, any time.
CHUNG: All right. And we'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: And tomorrow, all these terrible stories of kidnappings, we'll focus on what you can do to keep your kids safe. It's something I think I want to know about, and you should want to know about.
Plus, moms and daughters in a family business that just happens to be prostitution, the oldest profession, they say.
To get a preview of our program every day, sign up for our daily e-mail by logging onto cnn.com/connie.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE," "The Healthy Kitchen" author Dr. Andrew Weil.
Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night, and see you tomorrow.
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Girl?; Morse's Parents Defend Their Son; Landlord Secretly Videotapes Tenant>
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