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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
Shooting of 13-year-old Boy in Montgomery County, Maryland; Space Shuttle Atlantis Takes Off with New Space Cam
Aired October 7, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. And today we're talking about terrorism and fear.
It begins in Prince George's County, Maryland, where authorities are trying to determine whether today's shooting of a 13-year-old boy is linked to a wave of deadly sniper attacks.
And then, stay tuned as we try to find out more about terrorist sleeper cells in America. And you can let me know if you think it's OK for the FBI to keep young Muslims and mosques under surveillance.
First, the attack on a middle school student early this morning in Prince George's County, Maryland. A young boy is in critical condition after being shot on the way to school.
CNN national correspondent Rob - Bob Franken joins us now from Prince George's County, Maryland with more - Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Arthel, he is still in surgery at Children's Hospital where he was Medivacked (ph).
The chain of events was this. Shortly after eight o'clock this morning eastern time, the young man was being brought to the school by a guardian. As he was walking to the school he suddenly collapsed.
His guardian kept her head. She picked him up and took him to a nearby health center where some media treatment was given before he was taken by a state police helicopter to the world-famous Children's Hospital in Washington.
He's listed in critical but stable condition.
While the operation is going on there, officials are trying to determine if this is part of the wave of shootings that enveloped the adjacent Montgomery County.
Both this county, Prince George's County, and Montgomery County are part of suburban Washington. The middle school where the young man was shot here in PG County, as it's called, is in back of me.
Police are trying to determine if, in fact, the same caliber of weapon was used, if, in fact it was the same shootings. They are telling us that they have some leads although they have not been able to tell us anything specific yet about the type of weapon that was used.
A very specific weapon was used in the five deaths in Montgomery County last week, and in a couple of other shootings, one of them in Virginia 35 miles from here where a woman was shot and wounded over the weekend.
So, as I said, we're still trying to find out more about this. As far as the schools are concerned, they're being let out now under heavy security. This particular middle school where the shooting occurred, parents were encouraged to come and pick up their children. They did, of course, in various degrees of concern, as you might imagine. The children described situations inside that ranged from calm to, as one put it, chaotic.
But anyway, this school emptied out. It's part of a crime scene. But the other schools were kept in what is called a code blue. That is to say, classes continued, but there was in effect a lock out. Nobody was allowed in the building who wasn't authorized. The children were not allowed to leave until school was let out.
Now, the head of the school board here says that she will announce later today whether classes are going to open again here in Prince George's County. The schools have been conducted as usual in Montgomery County where the fatal shootings have occurred.
Meanwhile, the police are doing everything they can to try and find the person or persons who are responsible for all these tragic shootings, who have caused what amounts to a state of siege in the Washington, D.C. area - Arthel.
NEVILLE: And, Bob, I know we're waiting to hear from the folks at the Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C., where they are performing surgery on the little boy we mentioned earlier.
Do you have any early word as to how the little boy is doing at this point?
FRANKEN: Well, the last word that we got is he was in critical but stable condition. And they said that he is alive. One is left with the hope that his life will be spared.
The other part of this is that the police are interested in finding out what they can about how many times he was shot - the other victims were shot just once - what bullet fragments there might be.
If you don't mind, I'll expand a little bit by saying, when they are waiting for that information from the hospital, they are also doing such things as bringing bloodhounds out to search an area. These are bloodhounds whose specialty is sniffing our bullet residue, to see if they can find where the shooting occurred.
Also in the sky, a very high-tech helicopter the police are having, flying around the area, seeing what they can find from that vantage point.
NEVILLE: Absolutely. Bob Franken, thank you very much for joining us today. And, of course, we will bring you that live press here as it occurs. And that'll be a matter of moments here on CNN. So keep it tuned right here.
In the meantime we're going to go to Montgomery County, Maryland, wherw CNN's Jeanne Meserve is standing by with an update from that area - Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Arthel, Bob just hit on the key question in this county, which is whether or not this shooting this morning in Prince George's is related to the wave of shootings here in Montgomery County in D.C. and also in Virginia last week.
Authorities at this time saying they simply do not know, as Bob mentioned. They are going to be looking very carefully at the ballistic evidence. They also want to determine the range from which this boy was shot.
As you know, the shootings last week took place at a considerable distance from the individuals who were slain or wounded.
Officials here, the minute they found out about this shooting, dispatched some of their officers over to Prince George's County to find out what they could. They also have some forensics experts over there.
They've even gone to this step. They have some recruits in training over here. They have now sent them over to Prince George's County to help with a grid search as they comb through the area around the middle school where the shooting took place, seeking for some shred of evidence.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is very heavily involved in this investigation. They do have a mobile laboratory stationed over there, and as Bob mentioned, have also brought dogs to bear on this - search dogs that are tuned to search for any explosive residue.
Here in Montgomery County, as in Prince George's, schools are in lockdown mode. There was great concern about dismissal this afternoon when the kids would be coming out of the school.
Authorities have been spending several hours here trying to make sure that they have a beefed up police presence to keep those kids safe when they do come out of school - Arthel.
NEVILLE: OK, Jeanne. Thank you very much for the update.
And with us now is John Timoney, CEO of Beau Dietl and Associates. He is a former Philadelphia police commissioner and former member of the New York Police Department.
Also, Dr. Helen Morrison, a psychiatrist and forensic psychiatrist. She is a professor at Loyola University School of Law, and has done extensive research in character analysis, and I want to welcome both of you to TALKBACK LIVE.
HELEN MORRISON, CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, PROFESSOR, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: Thank you.
JOHN TIMONEY, CEO, BEAU DIETL & ASSOCIATES: Good afternoon.
NEVILLE: Dr. Morrison, I mean you see the pictures of parents and guardians picking these children up from school there in Montgomery County. I mean, what is going through the minds of these parents? I hate to jump the gun here, because we want to talk about this later. But I see those pictures and I've got to get right to it.
MORRISON: Well, I think all of us protect our kids. We want to make sure that they're safe, and if they're in a situation in which we think there might be danger, these parents are going to remove their children. They're going to try to keep them close.
And we've seen that over the past year since the terrorist attacks, when everybody ran to school to make sure that their children were safe.
The other part of that is, what are they going to do when these children have to go back to school tomorrow? And what are these children going to be thinking? What are they going to be worried about?
They obviously have to be fearful. Everybody in that area has become more and more fearful with every passing event that's occurring.
NEVILLE: Absolutely.
MORRISON: You know, we find all this evidence, but we haven't found the person.
NEVILLE: Right. And that's where I'm going to go to Mr. Timoney.
But before that, I want to remind everybody that, of course, we do have Dr. Morrison with us, and if you have any questions, going ahead and get the phone calls going, because this is your chance to ask the experts directly. And, of course, you can e-mail us.
In the meantime, Mr. Timoney, how are police going to catch this sniper, if, in fact, it's one person. Do they know that? How do you know that?
TIMONEY: Yeah, well it's either one or two from the best reports. I think right now the chief is doing an excellent job, watching him over the last four days trying to hold it together.
It's extremely difficult, since there are no eye witnesses. And what they're doing now is painstakingly going back at each incident. Reminding you folks who may have been there for a half-hour before or a half-hour after, did you see anything unusual? And, you know, encourage tips as much as possible.
But, number two, any time you have a major incident like this, whether it's a serial rapist or something like that, there's always somebody, a relative, a friend, that suspects something, that knows, that has an inclination, that understands or knows that this person, their neighbor has a gun like this and they've been looking strange.
It's people like that that need to call the Montgomery County Police. And often people are worried ...
NEVILLE: But how likely, sir - how likely, sir, is it that someone would make that phone call?
TIMONEY: Most of the time they're hesitant, because they figure, maybe it isn't the guy, maybe I'll get him in trouble.
The bottom line is, if you have suspicions, give the police a call. They've got enough discretion, enough professionalism. They're not going to give you up, if you will.
They just need some tips, some leads and check them out.
NEVILLE: And I think you were going to add another thought to that.
TIMONEY: Yes, I mean, that's it. The final part is the - hopefully that's the way he gets caught. The other way is, if, in fact, they slip up. They go through a traffic light and some unsuspecting police officer pulls them over. Then, you know, then you'd have a police apprehension.
But my sense is, just given the severity, if you will, the deadliness of these cases, that this individual will probably look to take out the police officer.
There's a thing call suicide by cop ...
NEVILLE: Right.
TIMONEY: ... and you're liable to see that come into play.
NEVILLE: Right. Tell us a little bit about this geographical profiling. How does it work? What is it? Is it effective?
TIMONEY: You know, I'm not so sure. Obviously, you've got to collect as much data as possible. And sometimes locations do come into play. But you're talking about a wide swath here.
This isn't a serial rapist that is working in a particular neighborhood that you can really kind of focus in on certain blocks.
You know, it was 50 miles wide as of yesterday. If today's shooting gets incorporated and it is part of the pattern, then you're talking about 100 miles. And that becomes a really tenuous science, if you will.
So, this may be helpful. And as the chief has said, you know, he'll take assistance at this point from wherever it comes. But I think too much has been played in the press and in the television regarding this geographical profiling.
NEVILLE: Listen, we have to take a break right now. But we're going to go from a geographical profile to a psychological profile. I want to talk to Dr. Morrison a little bit more about that.
You know, what is motivating the killer or killers inside the mind of a sniper killer when we come back.
And don't forget, we're waiting for a briefing on the condition of that 13-year-old boy who was shot today.
Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back everybody. Now we're going to go to Montgomery County where the police is briefing the press on this shooting spree there.
DOUGLAS DUNCAN, COUNTY EXECUTIVE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND: ... talk to them about what happened over the last few days and sort of where we go from here.
And I would just, you know, add to that, we also need to reach out to an elderly neighbor who is living alone down the street. We need to reach out to people we see in the grocery store. We need to reach out to others and comfort each other.
I think this community is in a state of fear, a state of anxiety, and we all need to do our part to reach out and help someone who needs that comforting.
And another thing that we're asking people to do, we've gotten a lot of calls from people around the reward funds. We've offered a $50,000 reward for information that's going to lead to the arrest and indictment of whoever's responsible for this. And people have called and asked to contribute to it, so - to that fund.
So we are now able to accept those contributions. And it's the Montgomery County reward funds. People can make checks out to that, can send them to the Office of the County Executive, 101 Monroe Street, Rockville, Maryland 20850.
But I think it's a good way for the community members who are looking to do something to help here, let's add to the reward fund. We've already gotten a commitment from one group today of another $10,000 for it.
But let's see if we can raise that as a way to try to get some information that's going to lead to the break in this case.
So let me now turn it over to Police Chief Charles Moose for his update.
It's the Montgomery County Reward Fund, Office of the County Executive, 101 Monroe Street, Rockville, Maryland 20850.
Thank you.
CHARLES MOOSE, POLICE CHIEF, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND: We have additional update with regards to schools in Montgomery County. So the director of security, Montgomery County Schools is Ed Clark.
ED CLARK, DIRECTOR OF SECURITY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND SCHOOLS: Thank you, Chief.
Just to provide a brief update from Dr. Weast, our school superintendent, he has cancelled all afternoon and evening activities for Montgomery County public schools.
He will be meeting this evening at 5 p.m. with all of his principals to reassure them that every possible safety and security measures are being taken within the school system and with Chief Moose and his team of officers here, as well.
Also, just to share with them outreach material in terms of counseling, services that would be available through the school system to parents, staff and staff members there.
So that's the update from Montgomery County public schools at this time.
MOOSE: Two issues with regards to shootings. We are presently talking to metropolitan police about a shooting in the 4400 block of Ponds Street Northeast. A victim was shot while sitting in their vehicle.
MPD certainly checking on those circumstances. It is too early to tell any more than that. And we are in contact with them as that situation unfolds.
We've also been in close contact with Prince George's County police. I'm aware that Chief Wilson has provided information and briefing on that situation. We're talking to him.
Very clearly again, we have no information at this point with regards to whether or not the situation is connected, but we are talking.
I will remind you that Prince George's County has had staff and investigators here assisting us throughout the time that we've had this situation. We've not had his patrol officers, but we have had intelligence officers, investigators.
So that connection has been ongoing, but at this point, we are in direct contact as they continue their investigation into that shooting.
Our next briefing is scheduled for 6 p.m., and at this point we'll take questions.
QUESTION: Do you have any indication about whether any bullet fragments or shell casings or anything of that sort has been recovered, and what you're doing to continue to find them?
MOOSE: It is my understanding from Chief Wilson that he is working very closely with ATF, same ATF that we're closely with, and that they are doing some work.
So that indicates to me that there is something there for them to do. But again, it is at this point a Prince George's County case. And I know that Chief Wilson has been very, very accessible.
So, I don't want to be inappropriately talking about a Prince George's County case. But as soon as he knows something, we will be in contact. And certainly they've been very much aware of our situation.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) another - this new shooting victim in Washington, D.C. And is he or she in the hospital? Are they still living? Is it male or female? Any details?
MOOSE: Is that D.C.?
OK.
QUESTION: No, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ...
MOOSE: We cannot really elaborate on the D.C. situation. It is very recent, very hot. We just wanted to let you know, in case someone had picked it up, that we are tracking all of those types of situations, but it's too early to provide any details.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was it a man or a woman victim?
QUESTION: Was it (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MOOSE: It is a man. And to the best of my knowledge he is still alive. It was the 4400 block of Ponds Street Northeast.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
MOOSE: Just before we came down, so I don't know the exact time.
QUESTION: Chief, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) meeting with the federal and state law enforcement, has the decision been made on jurisdiction at this point?
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) might eventually take over the overall investigation?
MOOSE: At this point, in Montgomery County, we have all homicides. So, what is the jurisdictional problem?
QUESTION: If there's an overall investigation, including all of these other scenes, will it eventually become a federal purview? MOOSE: I really don't know if I know that answer to that.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) forensics for ballistics at your county (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MOOSE: We have not received anything from ATF on the two projectiles that we've been mentioning to be in very, very bad shape. So we have not gotten a further report on those items.
QUESTION: Chief, other than the ballistics on the PG shooting, is there any other evidence, any other indications that would cause you to describe that as event separate from what's taken place so far in the county, the district and (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? Or something that makes it sound similar to those three (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MOOSE: I think at this point it's just still too early to go into all of that. I don't have any detailed briefing from Prince George's County investigators.
Very clearly, they've been articulating the piece about ballistics reports. But they've not really articulated any other conditions or circumstances surrounding the situation that I'm comfortable talking about.
QUESTION: Did the victim have two wounds or one?
MOOSE: Well, sir, again, you have asked me the kind of detail that I think I'm trying to say I just don't have.
I'm not refusing to talk about it. I don't have it. And then, certainly, I won't always be cognizant, that it is a crime scene in Prince George's County. And Chief Wilson has been very accessible.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) profile offer any guidance as to a - I'll wait a second (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Does the geoprofile offer you any guidance as to whether the killer lives in Montgomery County or would (ph) particularly come from Montgomery County, or where he might live?
MOORE: I have tried to be very clear that we're not going to talk about anything that we got from that work. We tried to come out and explain the concept, because we had talked about it. We wanted you to understand it. But we are not going to talk about it.
At this point I would - I'll come back to you, but I wanted Special Agent Bouchard to try to do a better job answering this gentleman's question than I did. OK.
MIKE BOUCHARD, SPECIAL AGENT, ATF: I don't know if I can do any better than the Chief's been doing, but maybe I can put some of the things to rest. We're getting a lot of questions on the Prince George's County evidence.
The ballistics evidence that has been recovered from Prince George's County is being analyzed. All we will tell you is whether or not we're sure that the type of ammunition used in that shooting was similar to the shootings that we've talked about already. If it's a different type of ammunition, it could still be the same shooter.
So we're not going to rule anything out. We don't have blinders on. We're very open-minded, as the Chief - to coin his phrase, we've cast a wide net. We are not going to rule anything out until we're 100 percent sure.
So, we'll - we may analyze this and it may just be a different type of ammunition. I will not come up here and say it's not linked because it's a different type of ammunition.
So, the only answer you will get in the future is, when we're done with that evidence, we will only tell you if the same type of ammunition was used as the shootings here.
Thank you.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) how long would that - those analyses (ph) (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BOUCHARD: I've been busy - I've been talking to the media all afternoon, so I don't know exactly what was taken and how, what condition it's under, it is.
But depending on the condition of the evidence that was taken, if it's in good condition, it could take a couple of hours. If it's in poor condition, it may take until tomorrow.
But we have about 15 chemists and firearms and tool (ph) mark (ph) examiners working on this. They're all - you can't put any more people on this than we've gotten already.
But, keep in mind, that's a big step to take to link things to another shooting. We want to be 100 percent sure before we do that.
QUESTION: Why is there (UNINTELLIGIBLE) suggestion that this Prince George's County shooting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) linked to the other (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? What has been giving (ph) that suggestion? Has it been, but why are we all here?
BOUCHARD: You're - the media is the ones that are asking us if we know, if we think it's linked.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) no evidence (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ...
BOUCHARD: Right. We have shootings, unfortunately there are shootings that happen in the United States every day, and in this area. They're all just as tragic.
The only thing that concerns us, like everyone else, is the proximity to the other shootings, the time of day, and now, of course, our concern is raised now that it was a child. Everyone is - but it's a heightened alert. We're more concerned. Our level of work on this hasn't changed. Every person who died so far got the same amount of attention from law enforcement.
So, there's really not - we're going to keep continuing on this. Every shooting that happens in a different jurisdiction, our team gets bigger.
We're just getting more of us working on it, which makes me confident that hopefully sooner than later, we're going to solve this.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tell us (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to have a random, mobile sniper instead of someone who's had a - you know, shooting from rooftops? It's not unusual in ...
BOUCHARD: I really couldn't comment on that. It's - I'm sorry.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) update (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ...
MOOSE: Over the weekend, the FBI psychological profilers that have been assigned to our agency spent a great deal of time with our investigators and gave them the information that they felt they needed to do a better job.
They also committed to remain in constant contact with our investigators, to continually review evidence - any other information that we make available to determine if they should adjust the profile.
As with the geoprofile, we're not going to say anything about it. But at the same hand, we don't feel near as obligated with the psychological profile to provide any education to the media, because that is a concept that we are - at least I am convinced that you are familiar with.
We just were not convinced that you were familiar with the geoprofile, and it felt like good customer service to provide a little more understanding of that whole concept, instead of just tossing it out there, and then saying, we're not going to tell you anything about it.
But we're not going to tell you anything about the FBI psychological profile. That is a tool for us to catch the bad guy.
I know that all of you individually, privately, would tell me that that is absolutely the correct decision.
Now, if your editors, if your bosses are telling you to come here and pry it out of us, then I guess the challenge is on.
But we are not going to tell you anything about it.
QUESTION: Are the profiles completed?
MOOSE: The profilers spent time this weekend with our people. But now we've got whatever happened in Prince George's County, we've got whatever interviews, whatever information they might have gathered today.
They will discuss that with those profilers and conceivably, the profile will be adjusted.
So I guess you could say - is it completed? Or is it an ongoing process? It probably is better to say it is an evolutionary process, and we're very fortunate that they will be in constant contact with us.
And since we're in the Washington, D.C. area, they can actually physically be in the same room.
Obviously, if we were 3,000 miles away, that becomes that much more difficult. There's phone conversations. They do it the same way. But we have the blessing of having them in the same room on an ongoing and fairly routine basis.
So it'll never, in that context, be finished.
QUESTION: What do you think it's going to take to catch this guy? Is he going to have to slip up in some way? Is it going to be like the Son of Sam situation where somebody gave him a parking ticket and you go back and find him? Is there a chance that you can catch him red-handed, or is it going to have to be a tip?
What is it going to take to catch this guy?
MOOSE: I'm not really capable of answering your question, because I don't know. It may be a Timothy McVeigh situation where a patrol officer makes a traffic stop. It may be dogged investigative work. It may be that the gentleman or gentlemen or women are going to turn themselves in.
It could be that someone is going to talk to us about the kind of things that we've been discussing - who's not been around, who's been altering their schedule, who's been acting kind of strange.
It could be any number of those or ideas that I didn't articulate or ideas that you didn't articulate.
I don't know, sir. But I can tell you that the Montgomery County Police Department is committed to spending the energy and the effort to do everything in our power, and I've gotten that same feedback from MPD, that same feedback from the sheriff's office in Virginia, that same feedback from our federal partners, Secret Service, FBI, ATF. Everyone remains extremely committed. But we don't know.
NEVILLE: Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose addressing the press there, where it got a little touchy for a moment. Both sides, press and police, just trying to do their jobs.
Breaking news from that press conference that police are looking into yet another shooting in the D.C. area. They have not been able to make a connection between the Montgomery County shootings, of course. That is still being investigated. We are still waiting to hear from the surgeon from the Children's National Medical Center in Washington D.C., where that 13-year-old boy who was shot this morning in Montgomery County on the way to school. He was shot in the chest. He underwent surgery. The latest report, he is in critical condition.
And we will bring you that press conference live as it happens. Keep it tuned right here to CNN for the latest developments on this story.
In the meantime, I want to go to John Timoney. I mean this is obviously -- the press is pressing the police. The police are doing the best they can. They don't have the answers. It has got to be frustrated for the police not knowing...
TIMONEY: Yes, I know Charles Moose. You know he headed up the Portland Police Department before coming to Montgomery County about a year and a half ago. Talented guy, been in the business about 25 years, but he's got his hands filled.
He's got a huge investigation. He's got a press that's, you know, dying for information, want more information, insatiable appetite. He also has to provide regular policing that goes on a regular day basis and lead this.
And he's been holding -- I think he's been great. He's been holding press conferences every three or four hours over the last four or five days. And I think he's holding up remarkably well. Andy you know he's maintained a bit of a sense of humor under these trying circumstances. I think, so far, he's done a great job.
NEVILLE: Indeed, sir, but sticking here to the story and the reason why it is such a touchy situation there, people want to know answers. You know everyday people. And can you give us information from your expert perspective?
Is it a male, is it a female? Is it one person, two people? What sort of clues or information can authorities key into that would perhaps provide answers?
TIMONEY: I mean I would rule out almost automatically a female. That generally when you have a situation like this, it's usually a male with prior military or hunting experience. My sense is I would look for two as opposed to one, simply because they've been able to move around pretty much at ease while shooting at the same time. And so you may have one guy driving, just stopping at a location, picking off, you know, a target, a very vulnerable target.
If you looked at the first four or five shootings, they were just people by themselves sitting on a bench in front of a store, at a gas station, vacuuming out their car. Just very kind of innocuous isolated incidents. Somebody driving by 100 yards away taking a shot; you know a good marksman.
So it's real difficult to advise folks except to be -- have your wits about you. Try and travel in pairs or in groups. It seems like, with the -- and we don't know about the one this morning, but it seems like so far that the victims have all been in kind of -- by themselves, isolated situations. It wasn't like they were in a group and one person was hit.
NEVILLE: Right. Let me bring Dr. Morrison in right now. And if you could, doctor, give us a psychological profile of someone who would do something like this.
MORRISON, CHILD PSYCHIATRIST: Well, first of all, profiling is not much different than what general police have done all along. Who is this suspect? Obviously, most people would think it was male, but I'm certainly not going to rule out a female. I certainly would say that the suspect is not just a possible hunter or in the military.
What about an ex-policeman who was on a S.W.A.T. team, someone who was trained to be a sniper, who can work alone, doesn't need to have a partner? This is very similar in some ways to looking at the profile of Andrew Cunanan a couple of years ago who went across the country murdering people. And everyone was fearful at that point. Everyone was concerned that he was in their neighborhood.
There were millions of sightings of him. But he was known. And so he was tracked very easily.
Right now, we don't have any idea who this person is or where they live. Kim Rosso (ph), who is doing the geoprofiling, has just developed this...
NEVILLE: OK, doctor, if I could jump in there, we're going to go back to Jeanne Meserve, who is standing by in Montgomery County with an update for us -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Arthel, you heard officials here a short time ago referring to a shooting in Washington D..C., which they said they didn't know whether or not it was related to the string of shootings last week.
We have some new information about that. According to the D.C. Police, a man was shot in the course of a robbery. He was shot at close range. Metropolitan police saying at this point that incident does not appear to be related to the string of shootings here in Montgomery County, also shootings, of course, in D.C. and in Spotsylvania, Virginia.
They still continue to investigate the case of the school shooting in Prince George's County, which is adjacent to this county. We have just been having a briefing from officials here. At this point, they are still saying they do not know if there is any connection.
When asked about the matter of evidence, which of course is critical here, we couldn't get a direct answer. The implication is there has been some evidence found that is being evaluated now by the ATF, but no word on what they've found, if anything, yet -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: Thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve, for that update. Again, Mr. Timoney, even more information for police to sort out here. How tough is it? You mentioned that Chief Moose has a hard job here on his hands.
TIMONEY: Well, and especially since it's not just one jurisdiction that you can -- you know the case management would be a little easier. You have Washington D.C., you have Virginia, and maybe Prince George's County, if the one this morning, if it matches up ballistically.
But even if it doesn't match up ballistically, as the ATF agent said, it doesn't eliminate -- he may have two guns, three guns. And so it's an extraordinarily difficult case and it's happening -- if you think about it, it's happening pretty fast.
This is over the course of three or four or five days, where you've got seven, eight people shot. And so it's extremely difficult. The information is coming in actually faster than you can process it. And the one thing about ballistics, which I think the press should realize, it's a very slow process.
NEVILLE: OK, sir. Let me interrupt you.
We're going to go to D.C. Children's Hospital to listen to Jacqueline Bowens, the Vice President of that hospital, who is going to address the press.
JACQUELINE BOWENS, V.P. CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: ... Pediatric Surgeon and Director of our Emergency Medical Trauma Center. Dr. Eichelberger is here this afternoon to talk about the medical condition of a 13-year-old male patient. We will not be releasing information regarding the patient's name or any other personal information.
Dr. Eichelberger will speak solely to the medical condition. Any questions regarding the investigation should be directed to the Prince George's County Police Department. In addition, at this time, the family has requested that no media interviews be provided by them. Therefore, they will not -- they are not willing at this time to give any media interviews, and we respectfully ask that you all adhere to that request -- Dr. Eichelberger.
DR. MARTIN EICHELBERGER, PEDIATRIC SURGEON: Thank you. Good afternoon.
It's a pleasure to have a few minutes with you here and just confirm that we have been taking care of a young man who has sustained a significant gunshot wound to his abdomen and chest. At this time, he's in critical condition but stable.
I think he has weathered a significant injury and, as of this point, we're satisfied with how he has gotten through surgery and we anticipate over the next eight hours that we'll see how he responds. All I can tell you is that we're happy with how he is doing right at this point. But I can't anticipate, other than the next several hours, how he might evolve. QUESTION: Doctor, what sorts of injuries did the young man have?
EICHELBERGER: This was a 13-year-old young man that had an injury that had a gunshot wound that entered his abdomen, went through his chest, injured his spleen, his stomach, his pancreas and his lung. And also injured his diaphragm. So he has significant injury to the left upper portion of his abdomen and the lower portion of his chest.
QUESTION: Did you remove the bullet?
EICHELBERGER: In general -- the question was, did we remove the bullet. In general, we don't do that. But because of the situation that we're confronted with in this community today, we did make a special effort to at least find a portion of the missile. There are still other pieces that are still there, but a significant portion of it we were able to retrieve.
(OFF MIKE)
EICHELBERGER: No, there was not an exit wound.
QUESTION: So it entered in his abdomen and then it -- is there one gunshot, one bullet?
EICHELBERGER: To the best of my knowledge, there was one entrance wound and then there -- this -- what happens is the bullet shatters. And when it shatters, it goes into a lot of different directions.
So we were able to find one that was simple to get to and extracted it. We didn't spend any extra time. All we did was do what was safe and simple just to make sure that this young man was resuscitated from his shock and was able to get out of the operating room in good condition.
QUESTION: How long did the operation take? And was it extraordinarily long or...
EICHELBERGER: The operation -- I can't tell you the -- to tell you the truth, I can't tell you how long it was. It was two to three hours. I think it went pretty straightforward.
It was a complicated operation, in the sense that there were multiple injuries that he sustained. And I had a great team of people that were working with me today.
QUESTION: Was it a large entrance wound, a large caliber bullet, small caliber bullet? Could you tell? EICHELBERGER: I'm not a ballistics expert. All I can tell you is a small opening on his anterior abdominal wall in the left upper portion of his abdomen. That's all I could tell you.
QUESTION: How many fragments did you find? How many did you count?
EICHELBERGER: I just found one. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
EICHELBERGER: Well, no, this young man is critical. He is stable right as we speak. But the problem we have with any surgical injury like this is that this can change over a short period. So we're going to be very vigilant in making sure that we're attentive to all of his particular needs.
He's responsive in the sense that he's doing physiologically -- his heart, his lungs, his kidneys are all working in a fashion that we would expect. And so he's doing 50 percent of the work and doing it well right now.
QUESTION: Is he breathing on his own?
EICHELBERGER: No, he's not breathing on his own. He's on a ventilator. We are actually breathing for him because it's safer to do it that way. And we will hopefully, over the next day or two, be able to remove him from the ventilator.
QUESTION: When you look at the fact that it missed his heart, but it did affect other (ph) organs, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), is he (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
EICHELBERGER: Well, we did resect and take out his spleen, a portion of his stomach, a portion of his pancreas. So he has lost several organs. But those are organs that all of us can live without.
The main thing was to stop the bleeding that was coming from those organs. So I think right now he's stable and doing well without those organs, and I think that those are not critical organs, let me put it that way.
QUESTION: Are you optimistic about his recovery?
EICHELBERGER: Ma'am?
QUESTION: What will you be watching in the next few hours (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
EICHELBERGER: Right. In the next several hours the most important thing that we're going to be concerned about is his ability to ventilate. Meaning are we going to be able it to breathe for him?
He has a significant injury to the left lower portion of his lung. So you and I depend on our lungs to pick up oxygen and breathe. So we're going to be watching that closely. That's one of the major concerns.
And the other major concern is whether or not he continues to bleed. He has been bleeding. He bled significantly for a period of time. Right now he is not bleeding. He is stable.
So if any of those things were to change, his blood pressure were to be abnormal, we saw evidence that he was bleeding, or if we started to have problems with his lung, where we weren't able to ventilate for him, it might require another surgical procedure.
QUESTION: It appeared to you one bullet, but that it broke up? Did it appear to you there was one bullet, but that it broke into several pieces?
EICHELBERGER: All I can tell you is there is one entrance wound and there are multiple pieces.
QUESTION: Are you optimistic about a full recovery or what kind of recovery?
EICHELBERGER: Well, we'll see after the next eight hours how things go.
(CROSSTALK)
EICHELBERGER: I can't say. You know my expectation would be that he would remain stable and he wouldn't require any more surgery, but I can't guarantee that. We'll just have to wait and see how he does with that.
QUESTION: You talked about (UNINTELLIGIBLE) blood loss. Is there any need for donations for this child or anything that the community could help with?
EICHELBERGER: Yes, I think the community can always help by providing blood. We're always short of blood. So if you wanted to do something to help us right now, you could go to a blood bank and provide us some blood, which we can use for this young man and other youngsters and other people that are in the same situation.
(OFF MIKE)
EICHELBERGER: The first time I met this young man he was not conscious. He was already (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and had a tube breathing for him.
QUESTION: He's unconscious now?
EICHELBERGER: He is not conscious in the sense that we haven't let him wake up. He's still basically a little bit of anesthesia to keep him quiet and calm so that his heart, lungs and kidneys can work and he doesn't have the extra added stress of trying to wake up and trying to fight the ventilator.
QUESTION: Dr. Eichelberger, before the child came to you the focus (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
EICHELBERGER: Yes.
QUESTION: ... help this child out and (UNINTELLIGIBLE). How much help was that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 15 minutes after this gunshot (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
EICHELBERGER: Well I think everybody that touched this boy today had a significant impact on where we are right now. The people that took care of him initially did an extraordinarily good job.
I think that they have resuscitated him the best they could. They had placed a chest tube in him, or had already put a tube in for him to breathe. So I think they did a tremendous job on making sure that this youngster was at least stable before he was transferred. And I think he was also fortunate that the people that were with him were able to take care of him.
QUESTION: Two more questions. Two more.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) surgery. How complicated was this particular situation?
NEVILLE: Dr. Martin Eichelberger, the surgeon who operated on the 13-year-old boy shot this morning in Montgomery County. The little boy is in critical but stable condition, and the doctor was able to retrieve most of the bullet that was lodged in his chest and abdomen.
Right now we're going to go to the Kennedy Space Center, where the shuttle will be taking off in a matter of moments. And Miles O'brien, what do you have for us?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: There goes the Atlantis. Let's listen for a minute, Arthel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Houston now controlling the flight of Atlantis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready to roll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Atlantis into the roll. The external tank camera placing the shuttle in a heads down wings level position. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Florida (UNINTELLIGIBLE), as Atlantis moves into the correct (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for orbit.
Thirty-three seconds into the flight. The first condensation pouring over the top of the orbiter, as the three liquid fuel main engines begin to throttle back in a three-step fashion to 72 percent of rated performance. Forty-nine seconds into the flight.
O'BRIEN: I'm joined here by Mike Bloomfield (ph), a shuttle commander who has been to the international space station two times; once to Mir. As you look at this shot, Mike, just walk us through what's going onboard the orbiter right now.
MIKE BLOOMFIELD, SHUTTLE COMMANDER: Well this is incredible. In the background you can see the East Coast of the United States as we're leaving the Kennedy Space Center. Right now we're about a minute and a half into the flight.
And what they're trying to do now is just get out of the atmosphere. The first three minutes of the flight is designed to basically to get us out of the atmosphere, and then the last five minutes are designed to get us up to a final speed of 17,500 miles per hour. O'BRIEN: All right. As you look at the more conventional shot, the next big milestone in this is the solid rocket booster separation. Those solid rocket boosters, you see the right one in the left-hand portion of your screen. We're going to see quite a flash, aren't we?
BLOOMFIELD: Yes, there will be a huge flash as it comes off and then you might actually be able to see the booster set motors. They're small motors that are actually mounted on the boosters to get them away from the orbiter so that they don't interfere with anything.
The thing you see right at the very bottom of your screen is actually the external tank. That's what houses all the fuel that we use, about a half a million gallons of liquid hydrogen and liquid nitrogen, which are used in the main engines on the orbiter.
O'BRIEN: A lot of vibrations right now up until this point. And there you see the solid rocket boosters go. A lot of vibrations on board, right?
BLOOMFIELD: That's right. When you're riding on the boosters it's a very, very rough ride, like going down the gravel road, if you will. And as soon as the boosters come off, it becomes a very smooth ride, almost like being on an electric train, if you will.
O'BRIEN: And this is the point during the ride when the G forces really build up. It's a lot smoother, but pretty soon you're pressed down on your seat, aren't you?
BLOOMFIELD: That's right. The first two and a half minutes while you're on the boosters there is a lot of G's, About 2.5 G's, which means I see -- my body weighs 2.5 times the normal amount. As soon as those boosters come off, you go down to one G, and it's an opportunity for you as a crew member to move switches if you need to and cycle through some of the displays so you can figure out what's going on with the engines.
O'BRIEN: Now so far so good on this launch. I believe we've lost the signal from that camera. Look at it there. It's kind of fuzzed up there. It looks like it might have happened when the solid rocket boosters slid off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly. You might have fogged up that lens, huh?
BLOOMFIELD: It could be -- it might be the sun that's in it, too, because we're going to the north and the sun is down to the south. So it might be the sun in there.
O'BRIEN: Give us a sense of the kind of speeds we're talking about right now, Mike Bloomfield.
BLOOMFIELD: Right now, when we came off the boosters, we we're going the same speed as a bullet. We were going about 3,000 miles per hour. Right now we're trying to accelerate to that final speed I had mentioned, 17,500 miles per hour. And to give you an idea of how fast we're accelerating, we're basically increasing the speed by 1,000 miles per hour every 30 seconds. So that's the kind of acceleration the guys are feeling in the orbit right now.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well apparently we've lost that shot. And we will watch this as the space shuttle Atlantis, the crew of five, continue their trip towards space. It's an eight minute and thirty second ride. They've got about five more minutes to go before that external tank separation.
We're going to watch and see if we regain that picture. This was a dicey thing to see whether this was going to work. There you see, it kind of looks like it got fogged up when that external tank separated from it or something.
BLOOMFIELD: Yes, it's difficult to tell. I can't really tell what's going on. Right now they're going through 50 miles, which is the altitude that we normally award or astronaut wings. So we've got three new astronauts, if you will, as they are heading up into space.
O'BRIEN: Is there a moment where you stop and mention that on the way up?
BLOOMFIELD: one of my crews, we said there is 50 miles, congratulations, everybody in the shuttle then back to the business of flying the shuttle.
BLOOMFIELD: In one of my crews we did mention it. Hey, there's 50 miles. Congratulations, everybody in the shuttle. And then you're right back to the business of making sure that you're flying the shuttle.
O'BRIEN: All right. About four minutes from now they'll unstrap and they'll be floating around in space on their way to the international space station. You've witnessed the 26th launch of the Atlantis, the 111th of the space shuttle program. Arthel, that camera looked good. I think they've got to work on putting maybe some kind of window wiper on it or something.
BLOOMFIELD: The thing that's going to happen now is in about another 30 seconds they're going to actually roll to heads up attitude. Right now they're heads are down so that we can communicate with them. In another 30 seconds they'll take the orbiter and they'll roll it to a heads up attitude.
And Jeff Ashby (ph) is the commander in the left seat. And, at that point, he'll be able to look out the left side of the orbiter and he'll look down on the East Coast of the United States and they'll be going past Kitty Hawk, which you know it was 100 years ago that the Wright brothers were just starting to learn to fly airplanes right there. And here we are 100 years later screaming up the East Coast at 17,500 miles per hour. Pretty impressive statement on what we can do with technology.
O'BRIEN: Oh how far we've come -- Arthel. NEVILLE: Yes. You know we have a question here for you guys here from Helen, who is in the audience.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the shuttle cam reusable?
O'BRIEN: Is the shuttle cam reusable is the question from Helen (ph). I'm not sure if you can hear OK, Mike.
BLOOMFIELD: Oh, no. The shuttle camera is attached to the external tank and the external tank is what houses the gas or the fuel for our main engines. And so once they get into orbit, they will actually jettison the external tank and it will fall back down into the atmosphere and it will burn up as it reenters the atmosphere.
O'BRIEN: Helen (ph), this is the camera. Not the camera, obviously. This is one of the test articles that they use to make sure this is going to work out. The lens is right in here, there's the wind chill there that got all fogged up when the solid rocket boosters came off. And this is the foam that they put on top of it to insulate it from the cold of the liquid hydrogen and the liquid oxygen inside.
NEVILLE: And, Miles, we have another question from the audience for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Which company is it made from? Is it made from Sony, Hitachi or whatever?
BLOOMFIELD: Sony, no baloney. It's a Sony and it's -- well, we call -- it's about the size of a lipstick.
NEVILLE: So a lipstick cam. And we had lots of oohs and ahs here in the audience, by the way, Miles. Go ahead, Ms. Margie (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi there. I would like to know what crew members are aboard.
O'BRIEN: OK. Well, you want to go through that?
BLOOMFIELD: Well, right now the commander is Jeff Ashby (ph), and he's the commander of the flight. And his pilot is Pam Nelroy (ph). The flight engineer, who sits between the commander and the pilot and is helping him during the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) portion of the run, is Sandy Magnes, who's up there. And then we also have Dave Wolf (ph) and Peter Sellers (ph), are the other two folks that are up there. And those will be the two folks that will be doing the space walk.
And then we have Theodore Nucheiken (ph), who is the Russian...
O'BRIEN: Who is a Russian cosmonaut.
BLOOMFIELD: That's exactly right. And those are the six folks on the flight.
NEVILLE: Miles, what are they feeling right now, the shuttle astronauts? What are they feeling right now?
O'BRIEN: We're getting pretty close to the maximum G forces, which is about three G's which means if you weigh 100 pounds, it feels like you're 300 pounds. And so you do the math, depending on your own weight right now. But you're feeling heavy.
BLOOMFIELD: That's exactly right. And as a matter of fact, right now they're increasing their speed at the rate of 1,000 miles per hour every 15 seconds. And in about another 30 seconds the main engines will cut off and all of a sudden everything will float. And I can guarantee you one of them is going to reach over in their pocket, pick up a pen and hold it out in front of them, just like this, and let go, instead of like that. And in space it would actually just float right there in front of you.
NEVILLE: Miles, I have another question from the audience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to know what the purpose of this mission is. Is it a re-supply or does it have scientific purpose? Or what is it?
BLOOMFIELD: They're going to add another truss segment to the top of the international space station. We're in the process of building the huge truss, which is 300 feet long when at completion. And it goes up in a series of segments that all fit in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the shuttle.
And so we're taking up a truss segment called S1 (ph), and we'll attach it to the end of the truss segment called S0 (ph) that's up there right now.
O'BRIEN: Think of it as sort of the backbone for the international space station. It will hold the big solar arrays. And there is actually a railroad that will be built on top of it. Cars will move up and down it, allowing a space-walking astronaut to get out to the far reaches of the space station to do work. Or even the robot arm can go out there and do work automatically without the astronauts having to go out. So it's an important piece.
NEVILLE: Well, Miles, listen, we have some more questions here in the audience. And I have Lisa (ph) sitting over there right behind me. She wants to get in.
We have to take a break right now, but this was an amazing sight. And what do you people at home -- do you have anything to say or ask? TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And we're looking at those amazing sights of the shuttle launch at the Kennedy Space Center happening moments ago. For the first time, we're able to get what is called shuttle cam, a viewpoint from the shuttle itself. You're usually watching from the ground as the shuttle takes off, but for the first time we're seeing from the other point of view.
And Lisa (ph), we were here watching this together. And your thoughts or questions at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question that I have is how much this camera costs, and will there be any scientific information that the camera reveals that we didn't already know? Or is it strictly for the enjoyment of people watching that don't get the perspective from space? And I'd kind of like to know who flipped the bill for the camera?
NEVILLE: Well, Miles, the camera cost, what, $760,000, right?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I mean in the grand scheme of things, you know when you're talking about a $3 billion shuttle program, you could put that in the category of pocket change, I suppose.
If you have a hard time understanding why we go to space at all, I'm not going to have a very good time convincing you as to why we should put a camera on the shuttle. Bottom line: it's wonderful to see something like that, I think. That's my personal opinion.
I don't know, Mike, why don't you defend it? There's no engineering reason for it. It's for us to enjoy it.
BLOOMFIELD: Well the original idea came from Mr. Golden (ph), when he saw one of these cameras mounted on a Delta (ph) (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And the Air Force has been doing it for years, and it helps just to have information about what's going on with the external tank and the boosters. And it gives us additional information hopefully so we can make a safer vehicle.
The view is just tremendous. You saw the first two minutes, and you could look back down on the East Coast and realize that after only about 45 seconds you're already going through 20,000 feet, which is three mile, and going through the speed of sound.
NEVILLE: OK. Mr. Bloomfield -- Michael Bloomfield, Miles O'Brien, thank you very much for joining us here. Today we are out of time. We do apologize for not getting on our discussion of terror cells and whether or not Muslims are being targeted. Hopefully we can reschedule that debate.
President Bush, of course, makes a speech to the nation regarding Iraq at 8:00 PM Eastern tonight. And CNN, of course, will bring it to you live. And we'll bring you great coverage and analysis. You don't want to miss that.
And tomorrow I want to hear about your reaction to the president's speech. Tell me what you thought about Mr. Bush's reasoning for taking a hard line with Iraq.
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