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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
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Aired March 10, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Monday, March 10. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Jan Hopkins.
JAN HOPKINS, GUEST HOST: Good evening.
It's the United States against France. The two countries are competing to win support for a crucial U.N. vote on Iraq this week. The United States and its allies want a March 17 deadline for Iraq to disarm. France is leading a diplomatic campaign to give U.N. weapons inspectors more time.
The White House said the U.N. will be sidelined if it failed to take action. Senior White House correspondent John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A day of urgent telephone diplomacy and a smile despite the enormous stakes.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: If the United Nations fails to act, that means the United Nations will not be the international body that disarms Saddam Hussein. Another international body will disarm Saddam Hussein.
KING: But if the White House loses at the Security Council this week, that other international body would be an ad hoc coalition assembled by President Bush in defiance of the United Nations.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Without the authority of the Security Council, the legitimacy and support for any such action will be seriously impaired.
KING: So every effort is being made to round up the votes. This conversation with President Jiang Zemin of China, one of many urgent calls placed by the president.
In addition to China, Mr. Bush's call list included the leaders of Japan, South Africa, Turkey, Senegal, Nigeria, Oman and Spain. Of that list, China and Spain are Security Council members.
Secretary of State Powell had lunch with Guinea's foreign minister and phoned Security Council members Angola, Mexico and Pakistan as well as Security Council allies Spain and Britain.
With the calls came some flexibility. Sources tell CNN U.S. officials are open to adding specific disarmament demands on Iraq and perhaps even moving the March 17 deadline back a few days if it brings a Security Council majority.
FLEISCHER: There are ideas that are being explored and looked at and so it is too soon to say what the final document that will be voted on will include.
KING: But at administration says it is adamant that the Council will vote this week on a resolution clearing the way for war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Secretary of state Powell was here at the White House to plot strategy for the negotiations on the resolution and so far, one name missing from President Bush's call list, that of the French president, Jacques Chirac. It has been five weeks since Mr. Bush spoke to the leader most vigorously opposing the U.S. position at the United Nations, and after weeks of playing down this rift, White House officials are not saying that if France used its veto power on the -- at the Security Council, there would be at least short-term damage to the relationship -- Jan.
HOPKINS: John King at the White House. Thank, John.
KING: Thank you.
HOPKINS: The United States says that crucial evidence about Iraq's failure to disarm has been -- quote -- "buried" by the United Nations. U.S. officials say that evidence includes details of a long range unmanned drone and a cluster bomb that could release chemical weapons.
Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth joins us from the U.N. Richard, what is the United Nations saying about these U.S. claims?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, the United States is using this afternoon's scheduled Security Council consultations on a resolution to bring up its concerns about the drone not mentioned specifically in his oral presentation Friday by Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector.
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Negroponte and there, the British ambassador, Sir Jerry Greenstock, both were concerned about this, both believed to be raising the matter in consultations right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: The fact that this was not initially declared is another example of Iraq's failure to have told the truth with respect to its holdings when it submitted its declaration on the 7th of September.
In addition, it would appear that this -- this unmanned aerial vehicle that was discovered would have the kind of characteristics that would be of great concern: a capacity to fly beyond 150 kilometers and configuration which suggests that it would be entirely capable of carrying chemical and biological weapons. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The United States officials are telling us, Jan, that Hans Blix said inside the closed door meeting now going on that the matter is still under investigation and that it is clear the unmanned vehicle should have been declared by Iraq and were not -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Richard, what about the latest on the potential lineup of votes for and against a March 17 deadline for Iraq?
ROTH: Well, it's like a baseball game in extra innings that never seems to end. The scoreboard is still the same.
You have four countries in favor: the United States, United Kingdom, Spain and Bulgaria. And then you have the same countries opposed, including Russia, China France, Germany, Syria, three of those with veto power. And then you have the undecided six, the swinging six, who are being lobbied intensively in capitals around the world and even here: Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, Mexico, Pakistan. International trade, economics, military deals, a lot at stake for those countries.
HOPKINS: Richard Roth at the U.N. Thanks, Richard.
Iraq continued today trying to persuade the world that it is destroying banned weapons. It scrapped more al-Samoud missiles and warheads. At the same time, U.N. weapons inspectors searched for bombs capable of delivering biological weapons.
Nic Robertson has our report from baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've heard today from U.N. weapons inspectors that Iraq has destroyed another six al-Samoud 2 missiles along with three war heads. That is now 52 al- Samoud missiles that Iraq has destroyed, approximately one half of their total declared infantry of the al-Samoud 2 missiles.
Also, the U.N. today reporting that it has held a private interview with an Iraqi individual who was involved in Iraq's past weapons of mass destruction program, that he was involved in -- in Iraq's unilateral destruction of chemical precursor agents that went into making chemical weapons.
Now the U.N. has been pushing very hard to hold interviews with people who have that kind of knowledge. The U.N. for the first time putting such details forward about one of their private interviews.
Also we're seeing on Iraqi television President Saddam Hussein meeting with a Russian envoy, the speaker of Russia's Duma, brought a personal message from President Putin to President Saddam Hussein. That message, that President Putin is opposed to military intervention in Iraq, that he supports the work of the U.N. weapons inspectors and that he supports the primacy of the U.N. at this time.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: As the United States moves closer to a possible war with Iraq, coalition aircraft are dropping more leaflets on Iraqi positions. The leaflets are part of plan to shock Iraqi soldiers into surrendering if there is an attack.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In 1991, U.S. Apache helicopters were killing machines, using their thermal sites and Hellfire missiles to take out any weapons system they spotted. More recently in Afghanistan, it was much the same thing. Massive daisy cutter bombs dropped from C-130s were designed to inflict maximum casualties, and the Pentagon made no apologies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They make a heck of a bang when they go off, and the intent is to kill people.
MCINTYRE: This time, Pentagon sources say, the strategy is to use maximum force but to minimize enemy casualties. One of the architects of the air war 12 years ago says, in retrospect, the punishing strikes against Iraqi forces in the field may have been a tactical mistake.
COL. JOHN WARDEN (RET.), 1991 GULF WAR PLANNER: When we did that, that meant that they simply had no ability whatsoever to turn around and march on Saddam Hussein, which I think they would have loved to have done, but they couldn't when they were being attacked the way they were.
MCINTYRE: A key component is psychological warfare. Leaflets dropped by the hundreds of thousands are telling Iraqi soldiers if they keep their tank barrels pointed down, they'll be spared.
Other leaflets dropped within 60 miles of Baghdad this week tell Iraqis to listen to American broadcasts, which also urge them to surrender and live to enjoy a better life with their families.
The strategy's success hinges on an overwhelming display of devastating but precision strikes, to instill what the military calls "shock and awe."
HARLAN ULLMAN, AUTHOR, "SHOCK AND AWE": So that you hope by this instantaneous, or nearly instantaneous show of power to effect interception, to shock and awe the enemy, the enemy soldiers and the enemy political leadership will say, Enough is enough. We quit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The pentagon says that it will accommodate all Iraqi troops who want to surrender as well as those who want to continue to fight. In fact, one senior military official says part of the strategy to break the Iraqi military's will is to, in his words, "obliterate" any unit that resists, the first unit that resists. And that could include rolling out the new 22,000-pound bomb, nicknamed the "Mother of All Bombs" in order to set an example to convince the other Iraqi troops to quit -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thanks.
While much of the attention has been focused on Iraq, another member of the so-called axis of evil is quietly developing its own nuclear program. The State Department says that Iran has secretly built two new facilities. Both plants produce material that could be used for nuclear weapons.
Senior security correspondent David Ensor has done extensive reporting on Iran's nuclear facilities and David joins us now with more -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN SR. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jan, unfortunately there is more. There are new pictures of the site and more information about it coming out because the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency, recently visited the site and the inspectors were quite disturbed by what they found.
What they found, we are told, was 160 gas centrifuges for enriching uranium. Very sophisticated equipment, ready and tested in the city of Natanz, which you see marked here. It's about 200 kilometers south of Tehran. There's a vast nuclear complex there which only became publicly known about late last year.
Let's just look for a moment at the satellite pictures, but first, we're first going to see one, these are commercial satellite pictures. The first one -- this one was taken late last year in September and you'll see in a moment we go to the newer picture and you'll see how much work has been done. The facility is under very active development as we speak. Now, this is a slightly tighter shot. As you see on the left, those five large white buildings.
In one of those, we are told, is some -- is a large warehouse full of very sophisticated equipment designed to enrich uranium. And officials say that they believe that once this is operational, which is projected to be in 2005, it would be capable of producing enough enriched uranium for Iran to produce, if it wanted to, several nuclear weapons per year. So while the U.S. is worrying about Iraq and, of course, also North Korea, Iran is well under way towards having the capability to produce nuclear weapons, if it should choose to do so -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Even with a speeded up program, 2005 is a deadline?
ENSOR: Well, 2005 in these kinds of huge projects isn't that far off. There are also other nuclear facilities in Iran. There's one in Iraq which the IAEA asked to look at and was not, I gather from sources I have so far spoken to, was not permitted to visit. So there are other efforts under way in Iran which are not being shown to the public. HOPKINS: Let's talk a bit about North Korea. That country test fired another cruise missile into the Sea of Japan today. What can you tell us about that and the reaction in Washington?
ENSOR: Well, it was a short-range missile. So -- they've done this before. Most observers assume this is another effort to get the attention of the United States and others. But at the same time, it's not -- they fired longer range missiles over Japan in the past. This is not regarded as sort of major destabilizing move on north Korea's part. It's causing some concern. The bush administration is downplaying it -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thank you very much, David Ensor. And still to come, as the North Korean armed forces launch another test of American resolve former state department official Wendy Sherman will tell us, it's time for the United States to talk directly with North Korea.
Intelligence officers say they are closing in on Osama bin Laden. We'll tell you just how close investigators may be to capturing the al Qaeda leader. Al Qaeda may be planning attacks on oil facilities in Saudi Arabia. We'll have a special report on a threat to the world's biggest oil exporter.
And on Wall Street the market fell sharply today. The third anniversary of the all time high for the Nasdac. Greg Clarkin will have the market.
Fell price continue to rise to near record levels. We'll have a special report on what's is to blame.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: In news from around the world tonight, there's been significant progress in the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Pakistani investigators say they are now just hours behind bin Laden instead of weeks or months. They credit information that they've obtained from the top al Qaeda operative Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and other informants.
Four Algerians have been convicted in Germany for trying to blow up a French market three years ago. Prosecutors claim that the four were trained in Afghanistan. The men will serve from 10 to 12 years in prison.
Palestinian lawmakers today established the position of prime minister. The job may be filled by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abass. Yasser Arafat will still have the final say on negotiations with Israel.
Meanwhile, Israeli forces have launched an operation in Southern Gaza. 15 Israeli tanks rolled into the village of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Gunfire was reported. There was no immediate word on casualties.
As reported earlier North Korea today test fired a cruise missile into the Sea of Japan. Our guest says the United States must talk to North Korea now or run the risk of that country building more nuclear weapons. Ambassador Wendy Sherman is a former State Department coordinator for North Korea during the Clinton administration.
Ambassador, welcome.
AMB. WENDY SHERMAN, FMR. STATE DEPT. COUNSELOR: Thank you. Good to be here.
HOPKINS: The administration is saying, though, that it doesn't want direct talks and wants this to be dealt with countries in the region.
What's wrong with that thinking?
SHERMAN: I think it's very important for other countries in the region to be involved. I appreciate and applaud the administration for consulting closely with South Korea, with Japan, with Russia, China, the European Union, Australia and others. And in fact, we ought to have a coordinated approach.
But having a coordinated multilateral approach does not mean that we can't each bilaterally try to move toward the common objective. And the fact is, whether we like it or not, North Korea believes that the only threat to its security is the United States of America, the last remaining superpower. So unless we talk with them, they won't accept assurances from other countries around the world that their regime can stay secure and intact.
HOPKINS: Now, is it important that these talks begin basically immediately?
How much time do we have?
SHERMAN: I don't think, unfortunately, we have very much time. One never knows with North Korea, and That's Part of the leverage they have against the world. But, in fact, they are taking more provocative actions every day. We know that they have canisters of spent fuel. If they uncan that spent fuel at Pyongyang, the nuclear reactor where they kicked out the IAEA inspectors, if they start to reprocess that into plutonium in a matter of months they could have enough plutonium for five or six bombs. And even though we know they might have one or two. When you have five or six, you or more likely to use them, you have a stronger deterrence, and the most damaging, the scariest part is they could sell that plutonium or finished nuclear weapons to other people around the world.
HOPKINS: That's really the biggest fear?
SHERMAN: I think that is the biggest fear of them selling it. Of course, they could always use one. But I think we also have a strong deterrent in Northeast Asia with our allies. I think all of this will be brinksmanship. The only problem with North Korea is they are very, very good at ratcheting up the power, getting themselves into a very bad situation. And they are very bad at getting themselves out all by themselves.
HOPKINS: What, if the United States waits until there's proof of processing going on? Is it too late at that point?
SHERMAN: I think that's too late. It's very hard to pull it back. By the there is one school of thought that North Korea determined to have nuclear weapons. So why don't we just let them go ahead, not let them blackmail us with their nuclear weapons and we'll try to contain them. We'll try to cut off their exports. That's a very risky business. That's not a risk I think the United States should be willing to take.
Our red line in 1993 when we faced a similar crisis was the reprocessing of spent fuel. We were ready to really ramp things up. We were on the verge of war at that point. Fortunately diplomacy ended the threat of war and we came to a peaceful solution that, although not perfect, did last for a number of years and did prevent North Korea from developing more nuclear weapons.
HOPKINS: What do you think stops the administration from having direct talks?
SHERMAN: I think there are a number of factors. I think there's a general concern that this is not just a problem for the United States, this is a problem for the world. And we should let North Korea know from other countries that it's a problem for them, also. I think that's legitimate. I think that should go on. I think we also want to keep this calm. We don't want to ratchet up the crisis while North Korea ratchets up the crisis. It's like when someone is screaming and yelling at you, when you talk in a calm voice, maybe they'll calm down. Except North Korea doesn't operate like that. They want attention. They want security assurance. They're not going to stop until they get it.
I think there is also probably a factor of how many things can you focus on at once. Of the administration is very focused, as we all know, on the pending war with Iraq. They don't want North Korea to complicate that.
And, in fact, in the negotiations with the United Nations, as we're trying to get votes on one hand, China's telling us to talk to North Korea. On the other hand, we're trying to get China to abstain and certainly not veto a U.N. Security Council resolution to go to war with Iraq.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much, Ambassador Wendy Sherman joining us from Washington.
And coming up next, take a close look at this picture. Gasoline has now topped $3 a gallon in California. Peter Viles will have a report -- Peter.
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Jan, anxieties about a war with Iraq are only one of the reasons that gas prices are spiking from coast to coast. Ahead, we'll go through the other reasons driving gas prices higher -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Peter. Does Saudi Arabia sponsor terror and fund al Qaeda? Former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations Dore Gold says yes. Former ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Richard Murphy, disagrees. They'll debate.
And, we'll tell you why some of our most widely used antibiotics will soon lose their effectiveness. We'll have those stories when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Still ahead tonight, the percentage of the U.S. population born outside the country exploded last year.
Plus, when it comes to energy problems, the answer may be blowing in the wind. We'll have a special report on the fastest growing energy source around. That and much more ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Here are some stories making news across America. Data from the Space Shuttle Columbia suggests someone may have tried to take control from auto pilot in the shuttle's final moments. NASA engineers caution that that data may be wrong.
A huge setback today for companies facing asbestos lawsuits. The Supreme Court ruled that some people who don't have cancer can sue for damages. The court ruled that the very thought of developing cancer is grounds enough to collect money.
There are a record 32 and a half million foreign-born people living in the United States. That is 11.5 percent of the total population. The Census Bureau says the rate of foreigners coming into this country has slowed, though.
Consumers are feeling more pain at the pump as gasoline prices continue to rise. The average price for a gallon of unleaded regular gas rose five cents over the past two weeks to $1.72. That is less than a penny below the all-time high, not counting inflation. Last year, a gallon of unleaded regular sold for $1.20. Peter Viles has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES (voice-over): Gas prices continue to spike in large part because of what oil traders call the war premium. But that premium doesn't explain regional differences. Why self-serve regular is $2.10 a gallon in San Francisco, $2.03 in Los Angeles, $1.81 in Chicago, all above the national average of $1.72. Cheapest gas in the nation in Atlanta, $1.51 a gallon.
One factor, differing local environmental standards and supplies for gas.
ROD KUCKRO, "OIL DAILY": Well, in California is a unique situation. They're under a mandate to reduce pollution by the year 2004 and they have to change over from a chemical additive called NTVE to ethanol, which is an agrarian-based fuel additive. And that, in it of itself, is driving up the prices of refining gasoline in California.
PETER BEUTEL, CAMERON HANOVER: Many cities in the United States have to use reformulated gasoline, but the hinterland, or the areas that are 50 or 100 miles, away do not. And what this means is if you have a shortage of reformulated gasoline in a city like Chicago, you may not be able to go elsewhere in Illinois to supply that reformulated gasoline.
VILES: Beyond the war worries, other factors pushing gas higher include, on the supply side, the cold winter encouraged production of home heating oil at the expense of gas production. Another hit to supply, the seasonal changeover to summer blends of gas temporarily cuts production. Lastly, on the demand side, in part because of gas guzzling SUVs, demand has stayed strong.
MICHAEL ROTHMAN, MERRILL LYNCH: For the most part, changes in price at the pump do influence the level of gasoline consumption. We look at growth rates. But the bigger influence is real disposable income levels, and those rates have stayed relatively robust, which is why gasoline demand growth has continued at a pretty healthy pace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Jan, as far as demand goes, as far as demand goes, Jan, this station in Manhattan is probably pretty typical. Regular gas here now $1.91 a gallon and super is over $2, $2.05 here.
We asked the manager, have you had complaints? Are your sales down? Are people buying less gas? No, no and no. They say business is strong, no complaints. So evidence here that Americans are not really cutting back much on the amount of gas that they're buying. And that's one of the reasons prices are so strong -- Jan.
HOPKINS: And in California, over $3?
VILES: Three dollars. Haven't got that yet in New York.
HOPKINS: That's good. Thanks, Peter.
Coming up tonight, there are growing concerns that al Qaeda is plotting to interrupt Saudi Arabia's oil production. Chris Huntington will have that report.
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jan, al Qaeda tried once last year and failed. Intelligence experts now say that those terrorists will almost certainly try again -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Chris.
We'll also have a debate about whether Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism. We'll be joined by Dore Gold, former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations and by Richard Murphy, former ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Wind power has become the fastest growing sector of the energy market. We'll have a special report.
We'll tell you'll be seeing Paul Newman's face at McDonald's.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE continues. Here again, Jan Hopkins.
HOPKINS: Welcome back. Here are the top stories that we're following tonight:
President Bush has been working the phones as he tries to win support for a new U.N. resolution on Iraq. The United States and its allies want a March 17 deadline for Iraq to disarm. But France is leading a diplomatic campaign to give weapons inspectors more time.
The United States says the United Nations has -- quote -- "buried" information about an Iraqi unmanned drone. U.S. officials say that the drone can fly farther than allowed by the U.N.. The United States is also concerned about an Iraqi cluster bomb that could disperse chemical weapons.
And North Korea's armed forces have carried out another missile test. They tested an anti-ship missile over the Sea of Japan. It is the latest sign of growing tension in the Korean peninsula.
CNN has learned the United States believes Saddam Hussein is planning another scorched earth response to any military attack. U.S. officials say that there is evidence that Iraq is planting explosives at oil fields in both northern and southern Iraq. In 1991, Saddam Hussein ordered his troops to set off explosives in Kuwaiti oil fields as they were retreating from that country. U.S. officials fear the Iraqi president will again destroy oil fields in the event of a U.S. attack.
Oil fields in Saudi Arabia could be the target of a different threat. U.S. intelligence sources tell CNN that they believe al Qaeda is planning terrorist attacks on oil installations in the Arab kingdom.
Chris Huntington has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUNTINGTON (voice-over): This satellite image shows some of the move heavily guarded real estate on the planet. It's the Saudi oil shipping port of Ras Tanura. Virtually all of the oil that Saudi Arabia ships overseas, more than 7 million barrels a day, flows out of Ras Tanura. That's why it's an al Qaeda target.
FADEL GHEIT, OIL ANALYST, FAHNESTOCK: If this facility is disabled for any prolonged period of time, three to six months or beyond, then you are going to set huge panic in the oil market, and people will be scrambling for oil, and with just the fear element itself will push oil prices beyond our wild imagination. We could see $80 oil.
HUNTINGTON: Last summer, Saudi law enforcement agents broke up an al Qaeda plot to hit a major Saudi oil facility. A Saudi official, who characterized the cell members as al Qaeda sympathizers, confirmed to MONEYLINE that they all worked at the state-owned oil company, Saudi Aramco.
Intelligence experts say it's only a matter of time before terrorists try again.
GEORGE FRIEDMAN, CHAIRMAN, STRATFOR.COM: From al Qaeda's point of view, it's about Saudi Arabia and the presence of American forces there. Now that those forces are there again, it is extremely likely that al Qaeda is going to try to mount operations, both small and large, and the place to hurt the Saudis, of course, is in the oil fields.
HUNTINGTON: Aramco would not comment on reports of al Qaeda operatives or sympathizers working at the company. But in a statement, it says all its facilities are protected by multiple levels of armed guards working with Saudi military forces, always on high alert.
The U.S. Navy says it has stepped up security efforts in the Gulf region due to concerns about al Qaeda, following last October's attack on a French supertanker off the coast of Yemen.
But Aramco's facilities sprawl all across Saudi Arabia. If Ras Tanura is the most obvious target, the biggest is the TransSaudi Pipeline that can carry more than 5 million barrels of oil a day between Ras Tanura and Yanbu, on the Red Sea.
But much of that pipeline is covered by desert sands, and to disable it would take multiple attacks, which is why the move sensitive target for a single strike may be the massive processing facility at Abqaiq. It handles 6 million barrels a day between several oil fields, the main pipeline and the terminals at Ras Tanura. An explosion at Abqaiq could cripple Saudi oil output.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUNTINGTON: Now -- now, Jan, one other concern is that chemical or biological weapons could be used to contaminate a major Saudi oil facility, making it virtually impossible to operate for a period of time.
As for the threat posed by Iraq, there is little evidence that it still has missiles with the range or accuracy to hit the major Saudi facilities. And even if Saddam Hussein had a few SCUD missiles squireled away, we learned in the last Gulf War that they are unreliable and not really considered much of a threat.
HOPKINS: Eighty to $100 a barrel oil. That's double what it is now, which would put gasoline at $6 a gallon.
HUNTINGTON: Well, you know the oil markets, Jan. And, of course, an immediate spike would be expected. How long the price would stayed there would depend on a variety of factors: the credibility of another attack and how much oil was being kept off the market for how long.
So -- but no question that a terrorist attack on Saudi facilities would create just panic -- instant panic in the oil markets.
HOPKINS: Chris Huntington, thank you.
One of our next guests says that Saudi Arabia is part of the problem when it comes to funding al Qaeda and other radical Islamists. Dore Gold is the former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations. His newest book called "Hatred's Kingdom." In it, Gold says that he has proof the Saudi royal families has ties to al Qaeda.
Also joining us is Ambassador Richard Murphy, who says that Saudi Arabia is a good ally of the United States. Ambassador Murphy is a senior fellow and director of Middle East Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Thank you both for being with us. But let me ask you first about what Chris just reported. You're saying that there's a connection between al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia. If that's true, why would al Qaeda attack if oil fields in Saudi Arabia?
DORE GOLD, FMR. ISRAELI AMB. TO U.N.: Well, we need a lot more details on this report that's from intelligence sources. Certainly there are a lot of al Qaeda sympathizers in Saudi Arabia and there have been sporadic attacks on symbols of American civilization in Saudi Arabia like Pizza Hut restaurants and other types of facilities over the last six months to a year. So this could come from that.
I can tell you that in bin Laden's public statements on the issue of the oil fields, he's been very clear. He views this as an Islamic treasure, as Islamic wealth for the future. And he's come out very strongly against attacking those oil fields, certainly in the late 1990's.
HOPKINS: Ambassador Murphy, what do you think about the possibility of attacking the oil fields in Saudi Arabia?
RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, I think that the report suggests that the royal family at least, the leadership, is on the hit list and has been on the hit list for the last several years.
The oil wells may be a national treasure, but they've been looking for ways to pull the rug out from under the royal family. One way is to get us out of the kingdom. The other might be to discredit it through a disaster in the oil fields.
HOPKINS: Let's go back to the top of your book.
GOLD: Sure.
HOPKINS: "Hatred's Kingdom." You say that you have proof that there is a connection between Saudi Arabia and al Qaeda. What's the proof?
GOLD: Well, first of all, let me explain exactly what the proof is that I have, because I don't want to assert something that isn't in the book.
For a long time, many Western intelligence agencies, also Western -- also intelligence agencies in the Far East have suspected that large Saudi charities, that are supported by the royal family, have been funneling money to terrorist groups around the world. For example, the International Islamic Relief Organization. For example, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) organization. For example, the World Association of Muslim Youth. Different intelligence agencies, through all kinds, of leaks have reported that money went to the Abu Sayaaf in the Philippines or to organizations in the Balkan, for example, and I won't go into all the different groups that have been funded.
For the first time, we now have proof that actual money has been transferred from certainly one of the largest organizations, the International Islamic Relief Organization, to Hamas, an international terrorist ring, in -- based, of course, among the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, an organization identified as an international terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of State. What I'm claiming is that if you see the funding patterns for Hamas, which are documented in "Hatred's Kingdom," that certainly opens up serious questions about whether that funding is continuing in the same pattern in other cases as well, including al Qaeda.
Ambassador Murphy, what do you think about jumping from funding for Hamas to funding for al Qaeda?
MURPHY: Well, the Saudis have always made a distinction between what they call the resistance organizations, the Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation, which would include Hamas, and al Qaeda, particularly al Qaeda as it has developed in these last few years.
When I went out to Saudi Arabia in January, my last visit, was to try to get a feel for the money trail. And I found it encouraging the way things have been developing, that money that had been not monitored, from the charitable foundations, that Dore's speaking about, were now being monitored to the extent that the crown prince was saying, Look, we've got poor people in this country, help them. And if you're going to try to send money out of the country, coordinate with the government. And what I was told was the government was not going to be approving those transfers outside.
HOPKINS: The Saudi Arabian government does seem to be doing some things in the war against terrorism. So wouldn't that argue against your thesis?
GOLD: Well, here's the problem.
You know, Adel Juber, the spokesman for Saudi Arabia, who's the foreign policy adviser of Crown Prince Abdullah, actually appeared on a CNN program called "CROSSFIRE" in August 2002. And he described Hamas not as a resistance organization but as a wicked organization. And later, the Saudi embassy, in December of last year, came out with a nine-page report saying they no longer had contact with what they called suspected groups since 9/11.
Well, lo and behold we find that the leaders of Hamas, including Howard Misshuaw (ph), was invited by one of these large Saudi charities, under the auspices of Crown Prince Abdullah in October of 2002, just a few weeks before that report was issued.
So the Saudis say one thing here in English, but if we check what's going on in the world in Arabic, what they're doing and who they're inviting, they're still in contact with some of those organizations.
HOPKINS: Ambassador Murphy, though, Saudi Arabia is providing access to American troops and bases for the war against Iraq. I mean what's your final sense about whether Saudi Arabia is supporting al Qaeda?
MURPHY: Well, I don't think it is supporting al Qaeda, because I think it sees al Qaeda as a mortal enemy to its own leadership. And they have told our military, we will get what we ask for and I gather that is happening. There have been changes. I mean, what Dore's talking about may be getting out of date now.
And let's not forget, Egypt called a meeting including Hamas to try to get the cease-fire in place among all the organizations. It hasn't worked yet, but Saudi efforts are in the same line.
HOPKINS: Thank you both. Ambassador Gold and Ambassador Murphy, thanks.
Coming up tonight, drug resistant germs are on the rise in the United State and Bill Tucker will have the report -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Jan, this is a problem that has as much to do with how we use our drugs as it does with when we use them. I'll explain -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Bill.
And at a time when oil is in shorter supply. One of mother nature's most endless sources of energy is in huge demand. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Mark the following date on your calendar: July 1, 2004. That is the date by which more than half the bacteria responsible for meningitis will be resistant to penicillin, according to researchers at Harvard. Bill Tucker has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (voice-over): When it comes to antibiotics, we simply use them too much. That is the pointed message from the researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health. MARC LIPSITCH, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: The bottom line at the study is that the prevalence of resistant bugs in the species Streptococcus pneumoniae is increasing, and especially at multi- resistant bugs. It does not yet mean we have infections with this bacterium that are untreatable. There are other classes of drugs that are effective.
TUCKER: But treatment options are dwindling. And if no changes are made in antibiotic use, the study expects that on a national basis, over half of the Streptococcus pneumoniae bacteria will be resistant to penicillin and erythromycin by next year.
Where you live does makes a difference. Rates of resistance vary widely among the eight states that provided the basis for the survey. In Minnesota, about 23 percent of the strains of the Streptococcus bacteria were drug resistant in 1999, versus Tennessee, where the drug resistance rate was 37 percent.
The study recommends that doctors and patients cut back on antibiotic use and accept the fact that infections like bronchitis and colds are viral, not bacterial, in nature. Or the consequences could be substantial.
DR. ETHAN HALM, MT. SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: The problem is is that if pneumococcal resistance goes the way of other more serious infection resistance problems, we may start to run out of antibiotics in that the play between bugs and drugs is always a little bit of an arm's race. And whenever someone gets stronger, you know, the opponent gets stronger. So it's only a question of time before we run out of antibiotic choices.
TUCKER: The good news is the Centers for Disease Control has developed a vaccine which at least for now would seem to be the ICBM of medicine, the Pneumonialcoccal Conjugate vaccine, but supplies are limited.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And just to be clear, the Streptococcus bacteria in this study is not responsible for strep throat infections. However, it is the one responsible for as many as six million ear infections every year, along with sinus infections, pneumonia and meningitis -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Very interesting. Thanks, Bill.
That brings us to tonight's "MONEYLINE Poll." Which of the following best represents your view of doctors' willingness to prescribe drug: too willing, not willing enough, or about right. Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline and we'll bring you the preliminary results shortly.
Still ahead tonight, a growing number of companies are using wind to generate electricity. In fact, wind is the fastest growing energy source in the world. We'll have a special report.
McDonald's was recently slapped with a federal lawsuit that charged it was responsible for making kids fat. Now the company is offering lighter fare. We'll have that story in our "Market Report."
And Oscar nominee Queen Latifah helps lift ticket sales this weekend. We'll have the weekend's top box office winner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: "Bringing Down the House" debuted as the weekend's No. 1 film. The comedy, starring Queen Latifah and Steve Martin took in more than $31 million. It's the strongest opening ever for a Martin film.
Bruce Willis war movie "Tears of the Sun" opened at No. 2. with $17 million. Rounding out the top five, "Old School," "Chicago" and "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days."
"Chicago" was No. 4 at the box office this weekend, but the winner at last night's Screen Actors Guild Awards. And "Chicago" took home the award for best ensemble cast, best actress and best supporting actress.
On Broadway, "Chicago" was one of the 18 musicals canceled this weekend. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg tonight call striking musicians and Broadway producers back to negotiations to settle a walkout that has shut down nearly every Broadway musical. More than $5 million was lost this weekend in ticket sales alone.
More than $165 billion was lost on Wall Street today. Stocks marked the three-year anniversary of the Nasdaq's all-time high with a steep sell-off. The Dow, Nasdaq and S&P 500 all fell more than 2 percent. Greg Clarkin has more on today's sell-off -- Greg.
GREG CLARKIN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: And, Jan, let's begin with the Nasdaq. It was certainly not a joyous anniversary today. But one that marked the day three years ago when tech stocks won investors' hearts in a big way. On the promise of spectacular growth, investors bought those techs, so much so that they pumped the Nasdaq up to its all-time high on this very day, March 10, 2000. When the day was done, the Nasdaq stood at 5,000, yes, 5,048. After falling 26 points today, the Nasdaq stands at 1,278 -- a drop of exactly 74 percent in exactly three years.
Now, from that peak three years ago, the Nasdaq's biggies have plunged. Microsoft down 55 percent, Intel down 74 percent, Cisco down 81 percent and Sun down 93 percent.
Now, the Dow also tumbled in today's trading, losing 2 percent or 171 points. Among the big stories on the Big Board, American Airlines parent AMR. It fell 14 percent after its flight attendants union said the company may file for bankruptcy, quote, "sooner rather than later," end quote.
McDonald's fell 2.5 percent, despite getting a dose of star power. The fast food folks will be using Paul Newman's line of salad dressings. That means more money for Newman's food company, which gives all of its profits to charity. We talked salad dressings with Newman today, and we also talked movies. He's up for an Oscar for his role in "Road to Perdition." And we asked Mr. Newman if at 78 does this Oscar nomination maybe be carrying more weight than all the other ones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL NEWMAN, ACTOR: At my age, almost anything carries a lot of weight. Are you kidding? I'm grateful to have a pulse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLARKIN: He does indeed have a pulse. And McDonald's is hoping some of his star power will help it restore luster to the golden arches -- Jan.
HOPKINS: And now a reminder to vote in tonight's MONEYLINE poll. Which of the following best represents your view of doctors' willingness to prescribe drugs? Too willing, not willing enough, or about right. Cast your vote at CNN.com/moneyline. We'll have final results in just a few moments.
"CROSSFIRE" begins in a few minutes. For a preview let's go to James Carville and Bob Novak in Washington -- James.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST, CROSSFIRE: Well, we'll start out tonight, we have uber-hawk Senator James Inhofe from the great state of Oklahoma. He'll be on to tell us why we got to go to war no matter what. And then we'll have an interesting show, there are things looming up at the U.N. We'll find out about that, and a lot of other things going on today.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, CROSSFIRE: And, Jan, we'll talk to the man who says he knows more about the nuclear bomb program in Iraq than anybody else, how big a danger it is, Saddam Hussein's former bomb bombmaker, Dr. Khidhir Hamza. And we'll give him some tough questions.
HOPKINS: Lots of tough questions, and "CROSSFIRE" at the top of the hour.
Wind is the fastest growing source of power in the world. Wind turbines now produce enough electricity to fuel 7.5 million homes in the United States, and the number is growing. Behind the trend, regulations requiring clean power sources, improved technology and a desire to reduce our dependence on foreign sources of energy. Casey Wian has our report from Tehachapi, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): White Wave makes soy food products, using enough electricity annually to power about 2,000 homes. Now White Wave is pouring several hundred thousand dollars a year in profit toward powering its operations entirely by wind. It's the environmental equivalent of taking 3,000 cars off the road. STEVE DEMOS, PRES., WHITE WAVE: Our greater goal here is to impact the way we all derive our livings. This is a demonstration of very obvious choices that we're making. We're hoping others would make the same choice.
WIAN: And a growing number are choosing wind power, and not just the usual suspects. Dyess Air Force base in Texas this year became 100 percent wind powered.
Worldwide, the market for wind electricity is growing at a 30 percent annual rate, according to the energy consulting firm BTM. Improved technology with bigger, more efficient wind turbines that don't need to be grouped in giant wind farms has helped drive down costs to near parity with other energy sources. And green energy regulations in 14 states have sparked increased demand.
STEVEN ZWOLINSKY, PRES., GE WIND ENERGY: You take energy security on top of that and some of the recent world events, you take the fluctuation of fossil fuels, and generally the upward pressure on power demand around the world and the macro forces on this segment, we think are very, very strong, probably for the next couple of decades.
WIAN: GE bought Enron's wind energy division out of bankruptcy last year. It's installed 1,200 of these 100 (UNINTELLIGIBLE) turbines worldwide and now plans to install even bigger models offshore.
(on camera): Federal tax credits have helped fuel the growth of the wind power industry in the United States, but a key credit is scheduled to expire this year and the industry is lobbying hard for an extension.
RANDALL SWISHER: If we had a five-year extension of the wind production tax credit, which expires at the end of this year, you would see literally billions of dollars of investment flow into the industry.
WIAN (voice-over): Swisher points to Europe, where the wind power market is four times the size of the United States.
Casey Wian, CNN, Tehapachi, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Still to come, the results of our MONEYLINE poll. And we'll also share your e-mails, including response from a French wine seller about Friday's wine protest in California. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Here are the preliminary results from tonight's MONEYLINE poll. We asked, which of the following best represents your view of doctors willingness to prescribe drugs -- too willing, not willing enough, or about right. Forty-five percent of you said that they are too willing, 12 percent said not willing enough, and 44 percent said about right.
And now your e-mail on the stock market. Joan from Michigan wrote: "My money will stay home with me until Ken Lay and his ilk are in jail, which likely will never happen. It has nothing to do with this war."
Separately, we received many e-mails about our story about protesters in Los Angeles who poured French wine in the gutter to protest France's position on Iraq. J.P., a wine seller in Paris, wrote: "They should keep pouring that wine down the street. It's good business for the French wine industry. They more they pour, the more we sell."
E-mail us anytime at moneyline@cnn.com. Please include your name and address.
That's MONEYLINE for this Monday evening. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jan Hopkins in for Lou Dobbs. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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