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CNN LIVE SATURDAY
Ukrainian Voters Still Protest In Capital; Insurgents Target Civilians In Attempt To Disrupt January Elections
Aired November 27, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin and here's what's happening right now in the news. The Secret Service has no comment on a Colombian official's statement that Marxist rebels targeted President Bush for assassination. Security was heavy during Mr. Bush's visit to Colombia this week, and no incidents occurred.
Iraqi interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi wants national elections to go ahead as planned on January 30, so does the country's electoral commission, but 17 political parties are calling for a delay saying Iraq is not secure enough.
And the Coast Guard has contained an oil spill on the Delaware River near Philadelphia. A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tanker leaked 30,000 gallons of crude last night. The cause is under investigation.
I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. We are also going to take you live to the Ukraine where angry voters are still taking it to the streets, claiming the presidential election was stolen from them. Their parliament agrees, but that might not matter. And we are going to explain why.
Want to do something more to support U.S. troops in Iraq? Well, I'm going to be talking to the men behind the magnetic idea that's raising money to help those troops and their families later this hour.
Well, the best football team you've never heard of. They've never heard about their team either but that's not been a handicap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are the same, you know. We just can't hear, you know. We can play football.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Can they ever. And hearing teams are finding out the hard way.
But right now, we are going to begin in Iraq where insurgents are clearly focusing on terrorizing vulnerable Iraqis and several political parties now are saying the country is too unstable to hold elections. They blame the same U.S. coalition assaults on Falluja and Mosul that were supposed to secure Iraq for elections. That may now be delayed. CNN's Karl Penhaul is now in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "My details are correct, and I'm ready for the election," says the man in the TV ad, telling Iraqis how to register for January 30th elections. Campaign posters are popping up around Baghdad, a reminder this will be the first free vote in more than 50 years. But not everybody has election fever. Adran Pachachi, a former coalition ally, and ex-president of the Iraqi Government Council wants to postpone the ballot.
ADRAN PACHACHI, FORMER PRESIDENT, IRAQI GOVERNMENT COUNCIL: First of all, it's to ensure the widest participation possible. I said that no part of Iraq, no area of Iraq will be left out from the particular process. And the second one is to give a chance for improvement in the security situation.
PENHAUL: At a meeting Friday, 15 major religious and secular political organizations backed his stance, including the two main Kurdish parties.
(on camera): Any delay could prove tricky. The United Nations Security Council Resolution set the deadline for a vote no later than January 31st, and leaders of Iraq Shiia Muslim majority have been pushing for elections at the earliest opportunity.
(voice-over): At a weekend press conference, government officials seemed determined to proceed as planned.
ABDUL HUSSEIN AL HINDAWI, ELECTORAL COMMISSION: I don't want to get involved in this issue because it's not my field. But up until now, there are discussions going on and the prime minister, he wants to have the election at the same time. He doesn't want to postpone it.
PENHAUL: Violence has spiked in parts of Iraq since the start of November, but the independent Electoral Commission believes the January timetable is still realistic.
"There are some areas in the country with security problems," he says, "but there are 72 days left to the elections and with the continuing effort to improve security, most of the country should be able to take part."
Aside the cause for the postponement, some Sunni Muslim parties and clerics are urging their supporters to boycott the polls together until coalition armies leave Iraq for good. Insurgent gunmen seem to be backing that demand with fire power.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well some clerics are urging a boycott of the election to protest the U.S. led attack on Falluja. Now, the fighting there is mostly over, but some resistance remains in the ruins. And amidst the danger, aid is starting to arrive in the city. CNN producer Kean Faddick (ph) was with a humanitarian convoy when they actually rode into town. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There used to be a sign here, "Welcome to Falluja." No more. This is the last military checkpoint before you get into what had become Iraq's most dangerous city. We zigzag through aboard a Red Crescent aid truck, one of about a dozen in the first independent humanitarian convoy since the assault on Falluja ended and then into the city itself. As we drive through the deserted streets, scenes of complete destruction on all sides.
The peace here is fragile, and the convoy's in a hurry. Red Crescent volunteers empty food, blankets and medicine at building they've taken over for a distribution center. This Red Crescent ambulance driver announces our arrival and calls out for civilians to come out and get help. But Iraqi soldiers here seem to be surprised to see the aid workers. A family appears at the gate of a house only to be pushed back inside. We follow the volunteers inside. Dehan Ahmed (ph) feels helpless.
"Falluja's destroyed. There's nothing left," Dehan (ph) tells us.
Ahmed's daughter, Sarah (ph), has been sheltering in this house for the last 10 days. She says, "We wanted to protect our home, but it's not here anymore." Several families crowded in this house during the fighting, with little food, no running water, no electricity. Outside, Marine commanders tell us it's still dangerous. Two Marines were killed in Falluja Friday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are still a number of small insurgent groups that we are tracking down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But civilians here are beginning warily to step out of their homes. It's still too early to tell how many civilians need help and how many may have died. The task of building this city is huge, but Doctor Sayeed Isma Hatki (ph) of the Red Crescent seems hopeful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're starting the process of healing, rehabilitation, and that takes on -- you can blow a house in less than five seconds, but build a new house, you need months. So we're going to rehabilitate this town.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The needy are ferried back to the distribution center. And one family's evacuated to Baghdad. The women and children are sick. Dr. Hatki puts the little girl into the ambulance and promises he'll be back with more help tomorrow.
Kean Faddick (ph), CNN, Falluja.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well a key ally in the war on terror is making big changes in the search for Osama bin Laden. Pakistan's government says it's pulling troops from a tribal region near Afghanistan where they think bin Laden and his top deputies have been hiding. Now, Pakistani commanders say they haven't found any trace of the al Qaeda leader, despite repeated risky searches in an area where tribal law, not the government, rules.
Now we're going to move on to the Ukraine where Ukraine, as it stands. Its parliament weighed in today on the presidential election that's plunged the country into turmoil. Meanwhile, the growing dissent over the disputed results continue to play out on the streets. CNN's Jill Dougherty joins us now from Kiev -- Jill.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Carol, Kiev has now turned into the city that never sleeps. These demonstrations, rallies, street marches, Entertainment cetera, are now around the clock. And this use of people power by the opposition seems to be working.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): After six days in the cold and snow, opposition supporters in Kiev finally have something to dance about. A key symbolic victory in Ukraine's parliament. These people believe their candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, lost last Sunday's election because it was neither fair nor free. Saturday, they watched on large television screens set up in the streets, as parliament came to the same conclusion, saying the election result should be annulled because it did not reflect the will of the Ukrainian people.
VLADIMI LITVIN, UKRAINE PARLIAMENT SPEAKER: The most logical political decision, taking into account the mutual claims of massive violations, is to pronounce the elections invalid in the sense of trying to determine the real will of the people.
DOUGHERTY: Another opposition victory, a vote of no confidence in the Central Election Commission that proclaimed the government- backed candidate the winner. On the icy streets of the capital, news of parliament's action was like a ray of sunshine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's super! Great! We're really happy. At last, we had a victory.
DOUGHERTY: But there are hurdles ahead before Viktor Yushchenko gets what he really wants, a new round of elections. The parliamentary votes have no legal force. Lawmakers still have to pass legislation to allow new presidential elections. And outgoing president, Leonid Kuchma, and the supreme court have to sign off on it.
(on camera): The opposition says the political tide now is turning in their favor. But in the east of the country, there are other demonstrators on other snowy streets who support the government- backed candidate, and they do not want a repeat election.
(voice-over): In the mining city of Donesk, a rally for Vicktor Yanukovych, the candidate who officially won the presidential election. People hear say if he is not inaugurated, they will not accept the opposition candidate. And they warn they're prepared to split off from the rest of Ukraine if that happens. (END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: So we have some live pictures now coming from Independence Square. That is where most of the main demonstrations by the opposition have been held. You can see a few -- fewer people than during the day. But it literally will be going all night. And I can tell you, I was just walking around in the city for the past hour, and virtually on every corner down here in the main area, there are tents, tent cities of people camping out for the night, and intent on staying until the end. The question is, when is it going to end -- Carol.
LIN: Yes. Jill, a quick question for you, the meeting yesterday between the two presidential candidates, when allegedly they were going to try to come to some kind of, dare I say, compromise or work out something. What was that conversation because it sounds like nothing was accomplished? The two men came out of that meeting barely looking at each other. What was the purpose of that meeting?
DOUGHERTY: Yes, really a cold atmosphere, we were told, in that meeting, which you can imagine. But what they're trying to do -- at least they got talking. That was the main thing. And what they created was two of these working groups, one from one side, one from the other side. Each group has four people in it. And they actually did hold a session today. What they're trying to do, and really, what's on the table, is that question of whether they should redo these elections. It would be the third time, by the way, to try to find a president. But many people are beginning to think that is really the only fair thing to do. So that's what may be worked out. But again, there's no guarantee, Carol. This is really uncharted territory.
LIN: All right. And the supreme court is going to take up this case this coming week. Is there going to be a decision by that court this coming week?
DOUGHERTY: We don't know that either. They'll start listening to it, and people are trying to move this along. But there's no guarantee of that either. But it is another sign for the opposition that they're going to hear that.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Jill Dougherty reporting live in Kiev.
Well, you can't drive far without spotting them, those yellow ribbon magnets on the backs of cars and trucks. Up next tonight, I've got the two men who created them. We're going to talk about their popularity and the inspiration behind them.
Plus, could we be rewriting history? New discoveries in South Carolina have archaeologists scratching their heads. We're going to dig deep to get to the bottom of it.
And later...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (UNINTELLIGIBLE) hearing are the same, you know. We just can't hear, you know. We can play football.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Sportsmanship through silence. Meet a football beating their opponents on the field and beating the odds in life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: On the front lines tonight, supporting the troops. As the song goes, tie a yellow ribbon around the old oak tree. But what happens when you run out of yellow ribbon. Well, that's when you create the magnetic ribbon, those ubiquitous yellow bands that you see increasingly on the backs of cars and trucks. Well, joining me now, the men behind that project, Duane Gullion and Christopher Smith.
Now, Duane, I know you don't want to take credit for this, because you actually say this was Christopher's idea, right?
DUANE GULLION, YELLOW RIBBON MAGNET CREATOR: Right, that's correct.
LIN: All right. Christopher, how did you get the idea? You actually heard of a shortage in yellow ribbon?
CHRISTOPHER SMITH, YELLOW RIBBON MAGNET CREATOR: Yes, ma'am, I read a local newspaper about a shortage in yellow ribbon and we just kind of put that idea with some current magnet products we were printing at the time.
LIN: And was this a for-profit venture or did you want to make a statement about the...
SMITH: Well, we were kind of slow on work, and also we wanted to do something for the war. People were asking for something to support the troops and the effort.
LIN: But I don't think it would be as widespread if it weren't for Duane, right?
SMITH: Correct.
LIN: Duane, how did you jump into this because originally it was just a limited supply that went out to churches and schools for fundraising? But then you jumped in. What happened?
GULLION: It was just something that I thought would be a good fundraising idea. And I put up a website and I didn't know how it would take off. But that's really what made it take off was the website and getting it in the hands of some of the family readiness groups at the military bases.
LIN: Yes, and I bet it made them feel good to feel like they were doing something, right? GULLION: Right.
LIN: They feel so helpless to watch their loved ones go off to war. How many of these do you think there's out there?
GULLION: There's millions now. We've sold over 1 million of the Support Our Troops yellow one.
LIN: Really? All over the country?
GULLION: Yes.
LIN: Are there any around the world, do you think?
GULLION: We've shipped them to APO addresses, probably going into Iraq, and for sure, Germany, and you know I know Alaska's part of the United States, but we shipped them to Alaska and Hawaii, just -- Guam -- lots of different places.
LIN: Wow! You know, Christopher, I was talking with some of the interns here, and the young budding journalists over at CNN, and they don't remember Tony Orlando and Don, the song, "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around The Old Oak Tree" that made it so popular. And you guys don't look like you're old enough to remember that song either.
SMITH: I remember it. I remember it.
LIN: You do?
SMITH: It's been a while, but I do remember it.
LIN: Yes, because it became popular -- again, it was first back in 1973, then again in the early '80s when the Iran hostages were released from captivity. So when you see this ribbon, Christopher, what does it mean to you?
SMITH: It's meant a lot. I mean it just really feels good to see that you've done something for the soldiers. I mean they're out there fighting, giving their life and just for our freedom. It just means a lot to me.
LIN: Yes. And Duane?
GULLION: The same thing. It's all about the men and women that are over there fighting for us so we can be home and live free.
LIN: And the money that you're making, the profits, they go to what?
GULLION: The magnet America, we've given to Freedom Calls. It's a foundation in New York that has a station over in Baghdad, north of Baghdad, at Camp Cook. And they have video satellite conferencing and voiceover IP that the soldiers can communicate with home and witness births and weddings.
LIN: Oh my goodness! Seriously? GULLION: That's one of the things that we've supported. And other than that, we've done some with our local Relay for Life teams with the cancer awareness. And then also a lot of the family readiness groups that we have as customers, we just donated to them.
LIN: So you actually get to hear back from the families then?
GULLION: Say again.
LIN: You get to hear back from the families or soldiers about this idea?
GULLION: Oh, yes. We do hear back from them. We hear from the soldiers when they come home, too, and they're just amazed at how many of these are on cars.
LIN: Wow! More than 1 million, and still growing. Christopher Smith, Duane Gullion, happy holidays.
GULLION: Thanks, Carol.
LIN: You're making a lot of people feel real good.
SMITH: Thank you.
LIN: Well, in the meantime, a very strange story out of California. In San Francisco, they are battling birds, but we're not so sure they're winning. Straight ahead, tonight, the city's plan to panic the pigeons is really just scaring the citizens.
And do you have a few hundred thousand dollars to spare for Christmas? Well, at least you can see how the millionaires shop for the holidays. That's later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: It's a battle between man and birds. For the moment, the birds are winning. San Francisco's transit system known to locals as BART appears to be fighting a losing battle to get rid of thousands of pigeons which plague station platforms. Greg Lyon of affiliate, KRON, has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREG LYON, KRON REPORTER: So there you are on the BART platform minding your own business, when you hear it. How you hear, what you hear varies from person to person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought they were birds from like the forest or something. I was like, what are they doing in the middle of Alstaredo (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It almost sounded like it was haunted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought, wow, there's a parrot living in the BART station. LYON: What's actually living in the BART station is a sound system, several tiny green speakers aimed at striking terror in the breast of the common pigeon, according to BART spokesperson, Linton Johnson.
LINTON JOHNSON, BART SPOKESMAN: You hear it from the right and then you hear the birds swooping in, the sound of birds, and then they're gone off to the left. And it's the sound of predatory birds.
LYON: It's easy enough to see why BART thinks pigeons don't make good neighbors. You wouldn't want to sit on this bench by accident or step here. It's a battle that goes back a long way. BART tried plastic owls. Pigeons popped on them. So the warfare escalated.
MIKE HEALY, FORMER BART SPOKESMAN: We used rubber snakes, which didn't deter the pigeons off at all. They just tossed them off the eves where we put them.
LYON: Former BART spokesman, Mike Healy.
HEALY: And we finally got to a point where we would trap them, take them up to the mountains and the trapper always found that they got back to the stations before the trapper could.
LYON (on camera): Hence, the new speakers have the screech of the hawks. The sound system is costing BART about $500 per station. Not very much really when you think about it and that's probably a good thing, because the early indications are, this system may not be much better than everything else they've tried.
(Voice-over): With the hawks in full cry, we saw pigeons calmly preening themselves in the rafters of the El Cerrito BART station. It did not appear to the layman that they were in the slightest disturbed though the sound system does seem to do a good job of disturbing at least some of the BART patrons.
In El Cerrito, I'm Greg Lyon, KRON-4 News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, from high above, it looks like a sea of black. A major oil spill just outside Philadelphia has officials scrambling to clean up.
Plus, this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL WILSON, THE BLACK AIDS INSTITUTE: The day will come when all of us are going to be asked the question, what did you do, what did you do. People will die. People were getting sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Battling an epidemic, the African-American community faces a crisis with the spread of AIDS. But activists are fighting back. And later, a high school football team where all the players have two things in common -- first and foremost they win. Then there's that other thing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Checking the stories making news this hour. Colombian officials say President Bush was targeted for assassination during a visit to that country this week. Colombia's defense secretary says the plot was hatched by local rebels. Security was heavy during Bush's four-hour visit and no incidences occurred.
More political uncertainty though in Ukraine as parliament calls for the presidential election to be annulled. Parliament's decision is non-binding, but it's a victory for the opposition. Supporters of opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko say there was widespread fraud in last weekend's election.
And it's getting -- well, it's getting -- it's called Getting into the Black. There are early signs this holiday shopping season may be a happy one for retailers. Bargain hunters continue to shove their way into stores across the nation. At least one major credit company reports sales are way up. An estimated 130 million consumers will shop over the three days beginning yesterday.
And a soldier from the U.S. 1st Infantry Division was killed by a roadside bomb north of Baghdad. With that death, 1,235 U.S. personnel have died in Iraq since the war began in March 2003.
Well, it's difficult to understand the situation in Iraq unless you've seen it for yourself. Michael Ware has been reporting on the war from "TIME" magazine and has seen both sides of the conflict. He gained exclusive access to the insurgents and spent months with them. He also was embedded with the U.S. Army during the battle of Falluja and he recently spoke to CNN's Aaron Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Every day we're creating more recruits for the insurgents. And every day more young men from outside Iraq, from the Muslim world, the greed of the disenfranchised are rising up and coming up to join the fight, to blood themselves. Right now, we are the midwives of the next generation of jihad, of the next al Qaeda. So the very thing that the administration says it went there to prevent, it is creating. And despite the honor and the bravery and the uncommon valor that I see among the American boys there in uniform who are fighting this grinding war day to day -- when I see them dying in front of me, I can't help but think that perhaps they're dying in vain because we're making the nightmare that we're trying to prevent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: And of course there are others who disagree with that. But that was "TIME" magazine's Michael Ware speaking with our Aaron Brown. In the meantime, the Coast Guard is working feverishly to help clean up an oil spill near Philadelphia. A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tanker leaked an estimated 30,000 gallons of crude into the Delaware River last night. The spill shut down 10 miles of the waterway serving the busy port of Philadelphia. The Coast Guard contained that spill today, and it is investigating the cause.
Now, more than 100 people and 10 skimming boats have been working to clean up the mess. The Coast Guard is trying to assess the environmental damage. So far, it's getting no reports of birds or fish endangered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETTY OFC. JOHN EDWARDS, U.S. COAST GUARD SPOKESMAN: The Coast Guard Marine Safety Office has taken samples of the oil. Those test results haven't come back yet, but we do know it's a heavy oil. The environmental protection is the Coast Guard's long-standing mission, and that working out there with these other groups, getting it cleaned up as quickly and effectively as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Well, the Coast Guard says that stretch of the Delaware River will likely remain closed for days.
Now, here's some other stories across America. Police in Tulsa, Oklahoma, are holding a suspect in the death of a man whose body parts were strewn along a busy highway. Authorities say Alfredo Rodriguez admits shooting the man Thanksgiving Day during an argument over a woman.
Now, services in Rice Lake, Wisconsin today for a father and son who were among six hunters killed in the woods last Sunday. Police allege a St. Paul, Minnesota, man fatally shot the six and wounded two others in a confrontation over a hunting spot. But it's a story with racial overtones.
Now federal loans to Florida small businesses ravaged by four recent hurricanes will approach $1.5 billion. And that's more than the region's 15 previous years of loans combined. A long road to recovery there.
New statistics though on AIDS and its impact on the African- American community. They are simply staggering. According to the CDC, more than half of all new HIV infections and nearly three- quarters of all women in the U.S. with the disease are African- American. Blacks more than any other group are bearing the brunt of the disease. Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm asking, Harry, what your opinion is on that. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like the young men he now counsels, Adolph St. Arromand knows the pressure of being young, black, and gay.
ADOLPH ST. ARROMAND, HIV POSITIVE: confessed to having those feelings and being a homosexual male and all went berserk in my family.
GUPTA: By his 20th birthday, Adolph was diagnosed with AIDS.
ARROMAND: I began to personally, in my mind and in my heart, prepare for my death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AIDS rates amongst African-Americans are 10 times higher than that of whites.
GUPTA: Experts say the reasons are many. Originally, AIDS was thought of as a gay, white man's disease and was not on the radar screen in the black community. Add to that poverty, I.V. drug use and the fact that blacks don't have the same access to primary health care. But black activists are fighting back.
PERNESSA SEELE, THE BALM IN GILEAD: We are in a bad place and we're looking at our numbers.
GUPTA: Pernessa Seele and her organization, The Balm in Gilead, work with 10,000 black churches. Their goal? Start AIDS ministries and finally let go of the stigma that plagues the black community.
SEELE: We are still stuck on this concept that I don't support homosexuality; therefore, I am not addressing HIV. Who cares? Who cares whether you support homosexuality or not? The fact is that we have a major crisis in our community.
GUPTA: The project is starting to gain traction. Churches like Bethel AME in Wilmington, Delaware, are starting AIDS ministries for the first time.
REV. SYLVESTER BEAMAN, BETHEL AME CHURCH: Ministers need to -- we need to stop being judgmental and realize that this is not God's curse upon a segment or a population.
GUPTA: Phil Wilson of the Black AIDS Institute agrees. He says in the end, silence may be doing the most damage of all.
WILSON: The day will come when all of us are going to be asked the question, what did you do? What did you do? People were dying, people were getting sick. It didn't have to happen. What did you do?
GUPTA: Both Beaman and Wilson are optimistic. The community will one day get beyond stigma because in the end, they say, it's more important to save lives.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: Now, you can watch Sanjay's compelling and complete look at the changing face of AIDS in his special, "ARE YOU POSITIVE?" tomorrow night. The must-see primetime special begins at 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Whether they are the age-old artifacts that could turn scientific theory on its head. Up next tonight, rare archaeological finds in South Carolina. I've got Bill Nye, the science guy, to talk about what this all really means and if it's real.
And later, football as you've never heard it before.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: All right, it's not the premise for the next Indiana Jones sequel, but an archaeology dig in South Carolina is raising new questions about the history of humans in the Americas. When did they actually get here, and are the history books wrong. Our Daniel Sieberg has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These archaeologists combing the banks of the Savannah River, may have unearthed the very beginning of the human existence in the western hemisphere. And if they're right, humans inhabited nearly at least 50,000 years ago, well before the last Ice Age and more than 30,000 years earlier than most archaeologists ever believed.
ALBERT GOODYEAR, ARCHEOLOGIST: This discovery would challenge the time-honored notion and basically, the western hemisphere, but particularly North America, that our species got over here relatively late.
SIEBERG: Goodyear's been studying an area known as Topper along the Savannah River. Over nearly 20 years of analysis, the site has been proven to be a rich source of flint-like material, perfect profession to primitive tools.
GOODYEAR: So this is the big draw. Is this a relatively rare raw material source that does occur on the hillside at Topper?
SIEBERG: Then in May, the team decided to dig just a little deeper. Well below an area that he had already dated at 16 to 20,000 years old, they found burned plant samples, oak, buckeye, and plume, some tiny tools mixed in. To date it, scientists measure the microscopic carbon levels in that ancient plant material. The results were astounding. The charred material measures 50,000 years old and Dr. Goodyear believes there's smoking gun evidence that humans were living there far earlier than previously thought.
GOODYEAR: People who probably knew about perhaps boats, and could navigate the coastline, knew something about fishing and gathering.
SIEBERG (on camera): It may not be time to rewrite history, but Dr. Goodyear says this discovery has added another chapter to the books and he hopes it will encourage other archaeologists to dig deeper both physically and intellectually.
(voice-over): And Goodyear plans to have his work published in 2005. Digging at the Topper site will continue, in search of more clues about when the very first people set foot in the Americas.
Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Columbia, South Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, how important really is this finding? Is it time to rewrite the history books? Joining me from Washington to decipher what this means, Bill Nye, the science guy and a very special day for you, too, Bill. Happy birthday.
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: Ah, yes, thank you. As we say in science, happy orbit of the sun to me. And you know it's Andrea Koppel's birthday as well. Who knew?
LIN: Is it? I didn't even know that. I spoke with her earlier.
NYE: Anyway, greetings, greetings, Carol.
LIN: Greetings, greetings. All right.
NYE: Thank you.
LIN: Let's move on to some of these rare findings. How important is this finding, do you think, Bill?
NYE: Well, if it turns out to be true, it changes everything. You see, we have this --right now I say we, humans, have this fabulous set of theories that people started out in Africa, East Africa, migrated through Mesopotamia, where we're -- in Iran, Iraq of today, across Eurasia, and then when there was an Ice Age, 17,000, 18,000 years ago, enough water was held up in the glaciers and so on, and people could just walk across from Siberia to Alaska. How about fun?
OK, but if this turns out to be true that people were in South Carolina, I guess it wasn't called that then, 50,000 years ago, that means all this theory, all these fabulous things about why people's skin is the color that it is, and why there were forest fires in North America, why -- all of this stuff, everything would be different. It would change everything from a scientific standpoint.
And you might say, quite reasonably, how does this affect me, the voter and taxpayer. And then in one way, of course, it hardly affects you at all. But in another way, it is the scientific method at work. It is people trying to infer our past from the tiniest clues. Now, we are living in a time, you know, when we have a lot of people who don't even believe in 50,000 years ago, who think it never happened. But here are people in South Carolina digging up stuff that essentially proves that 50,000 years ago was real. Well, let me say for...
LIN: Maybe. NYE: Well, yes. Well, for my part.
LIN: OK.
NYE: For my part, this -- the evidence that I've seen, which are pictures on the web, and charcoal, which has Carbon 14 in it, which is a result of cosmic rays turning nitrogen into carbon for a while, this evidence is not enough. I have to say, these...
LIN: But let me ask you a basic question.
NYE: ...artifacts could have been natural.
LIN: OK. Because they just looks like chips of stone. I mean he calls them tools. But it could have just been a natural phenomena. But let me very quickly ask you, as we show the scientist holding up what he considers to be a tool right there. It looks like a frosted cookie, actually. But what...
NYE: It would be hard to eat.
LIN: And it would be hard to eat. But I don't understand this burnt plant material. How does burnt plant material indicate human presence?
NYE: An excellent question. Well, a lot of people inferred that where you had fire, you had somebody starting a fire. But other people would say well, lightning happens all the time. We have forest fires all over the west every year. It's no big deal. So there you are. There's the...
LIN: So that's a real stretch then.
NYE: ...fist fight in the archeologists' teachers' lounge.
LIN: Right.
NYE: Say again.
LIN: Yes, I mean, then it's a real stretch to me. OK, you've got some chips of stone that he calls tools.
NYE: Oh yes.
LIN: And then you've got this burnt plant material that could have been caused by a variety of natural phenomenon other than man.
NYE: Yes, that's true, but as we say, every rock tells a story. So my understanding is that these -- the marks on these rocks are polished. They're as though someone were working them with his or her hand. And these marks are distinctive enough where these archaeologists believe they were made by people or pre-people, proto- people. But I have to say, for my part, it seems like quite a stretch because it would mean these other theories are at the best incomplete, or at the worst just they're all dead wrong. LIN: And there wouldn't be -- people wouldn't just be in South Carolina. I mean this might lead to archaeological digs in a lot of other places, right, where these people would have roamed?
NYE: Oh yes, yes, but just notice how much trouble we're going to there in South Carolina to find this evidence. I mean this stuff is buried by 50 centuries. No, wait, 500 centuries of messing around and so, it takes a long time to make these inferences, to figure this stuff out.
LIN: Right, right.
NYE: But I encourage everybody not to make this the most important story of your life, but everybody to think about this. What does it mean that there were people in North America 50,000 years ago? Or better yet, what does it mean for scientists to be having this argument? It's a very -- it's a fascinating thing that we have this method, this way of looking at the...
LIN: Right.
NYE: ...world that teaches us about our past.
LIN: You bet. Bottom line, Bill, you know what, it's exciting. It's exciting to be able...
NYE: It is exciting. It is.
LIN: ...to ask these questions. Bill, thank you so much. I'm sure more than...
NYE: Thank you.
LIN: ... burnt plant material is on your plate, your birthday plate tonight.
NYE: Well, thank you.
LIN: You have a great time.
NYE: Thank you.
LIN: All right, in the meantime, rare etchings are now on display at the National Gallery of Art in Washington. And one image from the 1600s shows a snake and a butterfly. You're looking at it. It's one of the earliest multi-color etchings. Another in dark blue/green ink is from Pablo Picasso's famous blue period. It's called A Frugal Repast. And then there's the image of St. Bernadine of Sienna produced by an anonymous German artist. It is considered the first print in western art showing a celebrity as he actually looked not exactly a rock star, sort of monkish there. The prints are on display until May.
Well, you might not find a bargain in Beverly Hills, but then again if you're shopping there, you don't really need one, do you? Up next tonight, a look at how the stars spend their Christmas cash. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: The holiday shopping season has gotten off to a fast start, you might say. Bargain hunters are taking full advantage of those early-bird specials, and with good reason. If you're like the average shopper, you'll probably spend more than $700 on gifts this year. And it doesn't end there. You'll probably spend another $290 for decorations, and parties, and other holiday related items. And those of you in the upper income brackets will spend even more, up to $900 on gifts. Happy shopping.
Of course, if you're a millionaire, you probably don't even care, quibble over the price tags. And when it comes to buying holiday bling bling, the rich and famous head to Beverly Hills. Our Miguel Marquez says there you and your wallet will be greeted with open arms and a whole lot more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's where the high end meet the higher end at its heart, Rodeo Drive, with its decadent decorations, crystal chandeliers hanging like street lights. Beverly Hills is retail nirvana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to head over there and do some damage over there.
MICHAEL ROBINSON, BEVERLY HILLS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Beverly Hills has a reputation for the bling bling, so we aren't going to run away from that. We're embracing it.
MARQUEZ: The Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce is embracing bling with a top ten gift list.
ROBINSON: You have to find it only in Beverly Hills.
MARQUEZ: On the list, a $5,000 Ferrari surf board made to order by the Italian sports car manufacturer.
PETER PAVONE, CO-OWNER, DECRET: We don't state you can go faster, but I guarantee you, it'll make you look a lot better on the waves.
MARQUEZ: On the list's low end, a high calorie cookies and cream cake filled with an orgy of caramel, marshmallow, chocolate and fudge. On the list's high end, a one of a kind reproduction of a 100-year-old Russian candelabra, 13-feet of Baccarat crystal for $1.6 million.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a beautiful entry, it would be magnificent.
MARQUEZ: So exclusive, it's not on the list and shown only by appointment, a naturally pink diamond, 10.39 carats for 2 million bucks.
(on camera): If you really want to show your love, or just impress somebody a lot, you can always buy them a Ferrari 360 spider for $245,000.
(voice-over): The 400-horse-power eight-cylinder engine is for those who need to get from zero to 60 in 4.6 seconds. You can get one at Beverly Hills Classic Cars, of course.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, welcome to Beverly Hills.
MARQUEZ: To help you find the perfect gift or just the right lunch spot is the latest in shopping overdrive, the holiday concierge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I shall refer all of our fabulous shoppers.
MARQUEZ: She does her referring while rolling down Rodeo Drive on a segway, which is, of course, for sale. For $4,500 you can always get a segway.
ROSANNE BARR, COMEDIAN: I think that with this thing, you don't have to move your ass one inch is like awesome.
MARQUEZ: So Rosanne Barr wants a segway. But she wants something else even more.
BARR: Having people that love you and care about you is the best gift of all and it doesn't cost a dime.
MARQUEZ: Happy holidays and have a great time.
Miguel Marquez, CNN, Beverly Hills, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: The funnier side of Miguel Marquez. And here's Al Hunt to tell us what's ahead on "THE CAPITAL GANG."
Happy holidays, Al.
AL HUNT, CO-HOST, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Same to you, Carol. Tonight, the Gang looks at the fight over the Intelligence Reform Bill and who leads the Democrats. Former White House chief of staff John Podesta joins us. And we'll go live to Kiev for the crisis in Ukraine. All this and more next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: And now the story we've been telling you about all hour. It has been a remarkable football season for a high school team whose players have had to work much harder than most to get to where they are. CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under the Friday night lights in Riverside, California, this team is making history for the first time in the history of the California School for the Deaf in Riverside. The school's football team is playing as league champion. Maybe you didn't notice when the quarterback didn't call for the snap or when the cheerleaders signed to the fans. If you didn't, these players and their coaches have succeeded because they don't want you to see them as deaf football players, but as football players who are deaf.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deaf and the hearing the same, you know. We just can't hear, you know. We can play football.
BUCKLEY: And play it well. This is what a perfectly executed play looks and sounds like to them. The Cubs of Riverside went into this playoff game with a 9-1 record...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You belong where you're at.
BUCKLEY: ...under head coach Len Gonzalez.
LEN GONZALES, HEAD COACH (through translator): When I arrived here, I told the players to stop feeling sorry for themselves. I can't beat hearing schools, you know. They're too strong for us. He says, no, you're equal. You know you have equal opportunities. You have eyes. You know the only thing you can't do is hear.
BUCKLEY: They don't hear the whistle. They simply stop when the play is over. There's no cadence. Players go when the ball is snapped. Coaches communicate by signing.
(on camera): They insist on receiving no special treatment, but they do ask the referees to clearly use hand signals on the field.
(voice-over): Referees oblige the deaf coaches. Opposing teams regularly underestimate the deaf players.
GARY SIDANSKY, CORNERBACK (through translator): I think at first they react like, we're nothing. We're handicapped. We can't do anything. But after the game, they realize that we can play football.
BUCKLEY: Tackle William Albright articulates what he and his teammates hope to gain this season. Read his lips.
WILLIAM ALBRIGHT, TACKLE (through translator): Respect.
BUCKLEY: On this night, they got it. Scoring more points in a playoff game than any in the school's history, 27. But in the end, it wasn't enough. They lost. Still, their journey from boys who didn't believe in themselves to young men who made it to the playoffs is one for the history books.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Riverside, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: In some cases it doesn't matter whether you win or lose.
That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next, "THE CAPITAL GANG." And then at 8:00 Eastern on "CNN PRESENTS: COMPANY TOWN." And at 9:00, "LARRY KING" and Larry's guest tonight is Prince Albert of Monaco. And of course, I'm going to be back at 10:00 Eastern tonight for the controversy over the JFK assassination video game. I'm talking with its maker.
But right now, here's what's happening in the news. Stay right there, "CAPITAL GANG" in just a moment, but first, here's what's happening right now in the news.
The Secret Service has no comment on a Columbian official's statement that Marxist rebels targeted President Bush for assassination.
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