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CNN SATURDAY NIGHT

Are Iraqi Elections Going to Be Delayed?; Search for bin Laden in Western Pakistan Called Off

Aired November 27, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN SATURDAY NIGHT. Fighting to stay January elections in Iraq. The latest on the political forces who want to delay those elections and why. And fighting what they say was a rigged presidential election in the Ukraine. They got a boost from their parliament today. That may not be enough. And thousands evacuated from a famous New York City store on this first holiday shopping weekend. Shoppers were sent to the hospital.
These stories and a lot more next on CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

Good evening, I'm Carol Lin from the CNN Center in Atlanta. Terror in the family. Our Nic Robertson spent some time with the man whose brother-in-law is one of the most notorious men in the world. I'm talking about Osama bin Laden. And the video game that lets you take aim at a president. Shocking, yes. I talked with the creator of the game based on the assassination of President Kennedy. Also, the best and the worst on what's on TV this holiday season, what to watch and what to watch out for.

Up first tonight, though, a nation of 25 million people occupied by foreign troops without a president and torn by a savage insurgency that brings violence to soldiers and civilians alike. Now despite all of that, Iraq's highest official says he is determined to hold legitimate elections in January as planned.

So we ask is that possible in Iraq's current climate? As Karl Penhaul reports, the answer lies with the Iraqi people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "My details are correct, and I'm ready for the election," says the man in the TV ad, telling Iraqis how to register for January 30th elections. Campaign posters are popping up around Baghdad, a reminder this will be the first free vote in more than 50 years. But not everybody has election fever. Adnan Pachachi, a former coalition ally, and ex-president of the Iraqi Government Council wants to postpone the ballot.

ADNAN PACHACHI, FORMER PRESIDENT, IRAQI GOVERNMENT COUNCIL: First of all, it's to ensure the widest participation possible. I said that no part of Iraq, no area of Iraq will be left out from the particular process. And the second one is to give a chance for improvement in the security situation.

PENHAUL: At a meeting Friday, 15 major religious and secular political organizations backed his stance, including the two main Kurdish parties.

(on camera): Any delay could prove tricky. The United Nations Security Council Resolution set the deadline for a vote no later than January 31st, and leaders of Iraq Shiia Muslim majority have been pushing for elections at the earliest opportunity.

(voice-over): At a weekend press conference, government officials seemed determined to proceed as planned.

ABDUL HUSSEIN AL HINDAWI, ELECTORAL COMMISSION: I don't want to get involved in this issue because it's not my field. But up until now, there are discussions going on and the prime minister, he wants to have the election at the same time. He doesn't want to postpone it.

PENHAUL: Violence has spiked in parts of Iraq since the start of November, but the independent Electoral Commission believes the January timetable is still realistic.

"There are some areas in the country with security problems," he says, "but there are 72 days left to the elections and with the continuing effort to improve security, most of the country should be able to take part."

Aside the cause for the postponement, some Sunni Muslim parties and clerics are urging their supporters to boycott the polls together until coalition armies leave Iraq for good. Insurgent gunmen seem to be backing that demand with fire power.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: I mean, the appearance of legitimate elections really was supposed to boil down to security. So consider what's happening far north of Baghdad in Mosul, a disturbing and gruesome mystery that's getting even more so.

Over the past eight days, U.S. troops have found the remains of at least 57 people, all of them men, some of them Iraqi soldiers, but some of them decapitated. Why they were killed or who killed them still remains unknown.

There's been no official statement from Baghdad, although it's believed insurgents in Mosul are bent on killing anyone cooperating with the coalition.

Now one Iraqi city that must start again from absolutely nothing is Falluja. Once an insurgent stronghold, utterly destroyed in the U.S. led assault to put down the resistance there.

Now incredibly, some families rode out the offensive and are only now seeing the first trickle of international aid. Our Kianne Sadeq rode in with the humanitarian convoy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KIANNE SADEQ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There used to be a sign here, welcome to Falluja. No more. This is the last military checkpoint before you get into what had become Iraq's most dangerous city.

We zigzagged through aboard a Red Crescent aid truck, one of about a dozen in the first independent humanitarian convoy since the assault on Falluja ended.

And then into the city itself, as we drive through the deserted streets, scenes of complete destruction on all sides. The peace here is fragile. And the convoy's in a hurry. Red Crescent volunteers empty food, blankets, and medicine at a building they've taken over for a distribution center.

This Red Crescent ambulance driver announces our arrival and calls out for civilians to come out and get help. But Iraqi soldiers here seem to be surprised to see the aid workers. A family appears at the gate of a house, only to be pushed back inside. We follow the volunteers inside.

Dahan Ahmed feels helpless. "Falluja is destroyed. There's nothing left," Dahan tells us. Ahmed's daughter Sara has been sheltering in this house for the last 10 days. She says, "We wanted to protect our home, but it's not here anymore."

Several families crowded in this house during the fighting with little food, no running water, no electricity. Outside, Marine commanders tell us it's still dangerous. Two Marines were killed in Falluja Friday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's still a number of small insurgent groups, who we are tracking down.

SADEQ: But civilians here are beginning warily to step out of their homes. It's still too early to tell how many civilians need help and how many may have died.

The task of building this city is huge, but Dr. Saeed Ismail Haki of the Red Crescent seems hopeful.

SAEED ISMAIL HAKI, DR., RED CRESCENT: We're starting the process of healing, rehabilitation. And our takes on - you can blow a house in less than five seconds, but build a new house, you need months. So we're going to rehabilitate this town.

SADEQ: The needy are ferried back to the distribution center. And one family is evacuated to Baghdad. The women and children are sick. Dr. Haki puts the little girl into the ambulance and promises he'll be back with more help tomorrow.

Kianne Sadeq, CNN, Falluja.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now in the Ukraine, they had an election. And it is now disputed. Two men claiming to be president met face to face and accomplished absolutely nothing in that meeting. So Kiev streets are still filled with protesters who then heard that parliament declared last week's election invalid and passed a no confidence measure against the electoral commission that said it was valid.

Now the parliament's gesture is only symbolic, but it gave fuel to the opposition who's fired up for Ukraine's supreme court review. The court convenes on Monday. And it's pretty amazing that in such a tense, uncertain time, that thousands pack the streets without violence so far. Officials wonder how long that's going to be the case.

Well now, a more than two year manhunt ends in western Pakistan. Osama bin Laden is not hiding there. That is according to a Pakistani army commander, who declared that his troops have scoured every inch of south Waziristan, long believed to be bin Laden's safe haven. Pakistan is calling off the search there. It's dangerous for its troops to keep searching there, but they are still searching for remnants of al Qaeda and the Taliban in other border regions.

Here in the United States and Washington, the Secret Service is refusing to confirm or deny a report that President Bush was the target of an assassination plot this week in South America.

Now a Colombian official says Marxist rebels hatched a plan to kill the president during his four hour long visit to Colombia Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORGE ALBERTO ORIBE, COLOMBIAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): When we found out President Bush was coming, we immediately activated all the alerts to be prepared. Later we found out through informants and various sources that different groups of the FARC had been instructed by the rebel leadership to attack President Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: No incidents occurred during the president's visit to Colombia, and no evidence supporting an alleged plot has actually surfaced.

To New York now though, where holiday shopping turned to pandemonium today inside one of New York's flagship toy stores. Someone apparently let loose with a can of pepper spray.

CNN's Alina Cho has the stinging details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Holiday shoppers like this woman struggled to stay on her feet. Chrissy Wells was inside the Toys R Us store when she sensed something was wrong.

CHRISSY WELLS, SHOPPER: Well, we were shopping and we started smelling something like a rotten egg. And then we heard somebody say something about pepper spray. And then everybody was coughing and sneezing, choking.

CHO: Authorities say someone released the pepper spray inside an elevator at the toy store's flagship. Buyer officials say it likely was not an accident.

MIKE MEYERS, FDNY: The odds are that someone just used a handheld canister like a woman was attached to her keychain in case she was attacked.

CHO: Soon shoppers started feeling sick.

RALPH NODICA, SHOPPER: We all started coughing at the same time.

CHO: And thousands streamed out of the store.

MEYERS: Nobody was panicked. Everyone evacuated in a calm and orderly manner. And some people were actually upset that they had to leave their shopping.

CHO: Officials say all of the injuries were minor, though some shoppers say New York City, post 9/11...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm concerned because of terrorism.

CHO: Others were more upset at the timing of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's terrible, especially during this time of the year, Christmas time.

CHO: Especially on one of the busiest shopping days of the year in the tourist haven that is Times Square.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Total shame that you can even think that this should be that's done in such a beautiful city.

CHO: Authorities are reviewing store surveillance tape to see who may have done it, while shoppers back at it, minus one unwanted break.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, in Beverly Hills, a different kind of holiday shopping scene. Straight ahead, we're going to pick out a few items for the rich and famous. And you might even see someone you recognize in that story.

Also, making a game out of a presidential assassination. That is our hot topic tonight. You are going to meet the creator of the new Internet game that puts the gun in your hands when JFK's motorcade goes by.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGIC JOHNSON, FMR. L.A. LAKER: The most important thing is this. Just because I'm doing well doesn't mean they're going to do well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And still speaking out 13 years later, tonight, Magic Johnson's latest message on HIV and AIDS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Try to kill President Kennedy, that is the object of a new video game that came out this week on the 41st anniversary of J.F.K.'s assassination. For about $10, anyone, including kids, can download "J.F.K. Reloaded" on the Internet.

Now the makers of the game say it's educational. Is it? That's tonight's hot topic. In a minute, you're going to hear from one of the people behind "J.F.K. Reloaded" and a congresswoman who has worked to protect children from violent video games. She is outraged by it.

But first, ITN's Nasaneen Mushiri (ph) shows us what the controversy is all about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The final moments of President John F. Kennedy's life. The years experts have argued over whether he was killed by lone gunman Lee Harvey Oswald.

Now the Scottish makers of a new video game say they can disprove all the conspiracy theories. Around side cams, players can recreate the moment. Points are only rewarded if the three shots accurately match the official version of events. The game's outraged -- the Kennedy family have called it "despicable." Senator Ted Kennedy wouldn't comment to reporters, but said the memory of both his brothers is still very much with him.

SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: A day doesn't go past where I don't think about my brothers. They're an inspiration for me and they have been for their family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The producers have defended a video game and say it encourages youngsters to take an interest in history.

KIRK EWING, VIDEO GAME PRODUCER: This is an opportunity for us to reignite passion in history and give people an opportunity to see a unique insight into the assassination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the first unconfirmed reports say the president was hit in the head.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It remains to be seen if its customers really want to learn about history or are more interested in the violent nature of the game.

Nasaneen Mushiri (ph), ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: Well, earlier, I talked to Kirk Ewing. You saw him in that piece, the managing director of the company that developed "J.F.K Reloaded" and a congresswoman, Betty McCollum about the game.

First, I asked Mr. Ewing to explain the concept behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIRK EWING, TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT LTD.: It's a documentary that uses video game technology in order to take people back to the scene in Dealey Plaza in 1963 and actually be there and witness it for themselves.

LIN: All right, but you're saying it's for historical purposes or investigative purposes, but you have -- it's an Internet game that's downloaded for a fee. So it's a money making operation. And you even have special effects that the player can choose from, for example, a blood spattering special effect. Why -- how does that play into investigative historical work?

EWING: Well, I think that's completely inappropriate use of language. It's not a blood spattering effect. What we do, as we recreate the factual effect that happened in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to John F. Kennedy. What we've also done is give people an option to turn those off, so that they can view it without that.

LIN: But the fact that it does exist, and that you so graphically show the path of the bullets through J.F.K.'s body, why is that necessary?

EWING: We've employed techniques that are used in common place and other television shows, such as "C.S.I." in America. And really, what we believe is this is a unique way of using video game technology to take people into this event.

I mean, I think this all part of the misunderstanding, that because it's a video game tech, that basically its trivializing what we believe is an incredibly serious and world changing event.

LIN: Congresswoman, what was your reaction when you heard about this video game or documentary, what have you?

REP. BETTY MCCOLLUM (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I was extraordinarily disappointed that someone would make a first person shooter game involving such a tragic event in American history, and that is the assassination of a president. Many of us were alive. I was alive when it happened. It was a very tragic time in our country.

And this is a video game. At the beginning, when you go onto the Internet to download it, it talks about ruling out the conspiracy theories and other things, but it also talks about killing the president of the United States. The technology's available. It's good technology, but I believe in this particular instance, using it as a first person game for children and for people to assassinate the president of the United States is of very poor past. LIN: So -- but the techniques that Kirk is talking about were actually used by the investigation into the death of J.F.K. So -- and all of that information is easily accessible to the public, including children, school children learning about the event.

MCCOLLUM: Well, we're talking about in -- I don't know if you had a chance to listen or interact with the downloaded game at all, but you're behind -- you're a first person shooter. So you're actually behind a gun. And you can hear Lee Harvey Oswald breathe.

Now that is not what forensic scientists do when they're using computing imaging and modeling to prove or disprove theories. So this isn't a documentary. It's a game. And it puts you in the place of being a first person shooter. In other words, the killer of John F. Kennedy.

LIN: Kirk, so do you think that this game should come with a warning label or restrictions to minors?

EWING: Well, I would just like to question the congresswoman's agenda. I mean, we actually have an advisory warning at the start of this. This is not a game or anything like that for children. This is obviously an adult product, trying to make a serious point.

And I would ask the congresswoman if she feels that strongly about what we've done, how does she feel about this game that's out "America's Army?" Now this is a game, sponsored by the Pentagon, designed to train teenagers how to kill using the most sophisticated weapons available.

LIN: What are you talking about there?

EWING: This is up to the second reality gaming. With the current situation in Iraq, how is that...

LIN: Well, you're making a political statement about the war in Iraq.

EWING: ...more appropriate than what we are doing?

LIN: But that's very different than what we're talking about. We're talking about.

EWING: I'm sorry, congresswoman, it's not.

LIN: You're talking to Carol at the CNN Center.

EWING: No, it's not. Sorry, Carol.

LIN: You are running a commercial enterprise. I mean, you stand to make a profit. And you hope to make a profit from this game or documentary, right?

EWING: Well, I'm sorry, the Pentagon have decided to release a free killing simulation game, called "America's Army." It's aimed at teenagers... LIN: Sir, that's not what we're talking about. Congresswoman, let me let you have the last word here.

MCCOLLUM: Well, video technology's wonderful. And children should, and adults should be able to play age appropriate games. I'm doing this today to let parents know that if they do hear their children talking about this game in particular, they need to become actively involved and discuss their children, the appropriateness of playing a game in which an American citizen would be reenacting as a first person shooter the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

LIN: All right, on that note, Congresswoman Betty McCollum, thank you very much. Kirk Ewing, thank you very much for calling in.

EWING: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: All right, so is it a violent video game or a reenactment of history? That leads us to our last call question. Is there any redeeming value to the J.F.K. video game? Give us a call at 1-800- 807-2620.

We've got a story about family ties creating a cause for concern, you might say. Up next in the spotlight, a bin Laden family member speaks out on his relationship with the world's most wanted terrorist. Also...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The support's just wonderful. Moves me to tears. There's been a lot of beautiful things happening in the neighborhood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: We're going to show you how a whole community rallied and brought Christmas early for a dying neighbor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: A look around the nation right now. Federal loans to Florida small businesses ravaged by four recent hurricanes will approach $1.5 billion. And that is more than the entire region borrowed in the past 15 years.

Now look at this. This is a mess. The Coast Guard and environmental contractors are trying to assess the damage done to the Delaware River near Philadelphia. Friday night, 30,000 gallons of crude oil leaked out of a tanker. A 10 mile stretch of the river is closed. The Coast Guard says the spill is contained, but will take days to clean up.

And were you one of these people out shopping? Well, if so, you contributed to an $8 billion retail day, more than last year, according to the agencies who track these sorts of things. The day after Thanksgiving was getting competition lately from the Saturday before Christmas.

All right, from the business of the holidays now, to the real meaning of the season, lest we forget or least we'd like to think it's about family and fellowship and sharing. A story now of the community in upstate New York, one that joined hands and joined hearts for a neighbor and for Christmas.

Here's Mark Mulholland of our Albany affiliate WNYT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA ROWICH: Speechless that there's snow at my house.

MARK MULHOLLAND, WNYT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fifty-three old Sara Rowich returned from a doctor's appointment to find snow at her house and only her house.

ROWICH: And how did it get here? Do you know?

MULHOLLAND: The snow was the latest in a series of gestures by neighbors to make Sara smile in the final stages of her life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eight years ago, my mom was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. And at the time, she had surgery to remove that, and was able to go into remission. And we thought that cancer was gone from our lives.

MULHOLLAND: But in February, the cancer returned. And this time, surgery and chemotherapy couldn't stop it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now she is home on hospice care. And we're looking at about a month, if that.

MULHOLLAND: In her remaining days, Sara's friends and neighbors are doing whatever they can to make every moment count. Once they heard that Sara loves Christmas, especially the decorating and the anticipation, they circulated a letter, asking people to decorate early.

Many like Mary Gorham, who has never met Sara, were delighted to help out.

MARY GORHAM, NEIGHBOR: I really, really admire her a great deal.

MULHOLLAND: And the Rowich family says the feelings are mutual.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's been an incredible outpouring of love. And having snow just helps us get through a very difficult time.

MULHOLLAND: In addition to the snow and decorations, carolers sang "Silent Night" to the Rowiches. ROWICH: The support's just wonderful. Moves me to tears. There have been a lot of beautiful things happening in the neighborhood. And so incredibly beautiful and so incredibly sad at the same time. It's a real Christmas miracle.

MULHOLLAND: For CNN, I'm Mark Mulholland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Taking a look at the headlines tonight and tomorrow now. Free at last. U.S. Army Sergeant Charles Jenkins was released from jail in Japan today, ending the longest U.S. desertion case on record. Jenkins served 25 days for deserting his unit in 1965 and defecting to North Korea.

Mourning in Wisconsin. Funeral services were held today for three hunters who were killed in a bizarre shootout last weekend. Six people in all were killed. The suspect is in custody.

And captured in China, a 21-year old man is in custody in connection with a grisly killing at a school dormitory. Police say a man wielding a knife slashed eight students to death as they slept Thursday. Four other people were wounded.

All right, we're going to switch gears now to a growing epidemic that is threatening people of every color and class. I'm talking about AIDS. Many people think AIDS in America is under control, but it is not.

Our medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta will have a prime-time special tomorrow on AIDS. His special includes a candid interview with Magic Johnson. And we've got a preview tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAGIC JOHNSON, HIV POSITIVE: Just like they're sitting there in that audience thinking it can't happen to them, I was sitting there with the Lakers thinking it can't -- it couldn't happen to me. I thought I was invincible.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: But what is the real story, though? What is the story that you tell them?

JOHNSON: Well, the real story is that I had unprotected sex.

Because of the HIV virus that I have attained, I will have to retire from the Lakers.

The worst moment in all of this was driving from that doctor's office to my house to tell my wife I was HIV positive...not knowing whether she was going to stay or not. You know, because I told her I would understand if she wanted to leave.

So I think that was the toughest moment. And then when she told me that we're going to beat this together, I just...(sigh.)

I take my medicine twice a day, whether it's...

GUPTA: How many pills?

JOHNSON: Four.

GUPTA: Because you look so good, what is your diet like?

JOHNSON: My diet is chicken and fish. Make sure that I get a lot of vegetables, a lot of fruit. I'm a big fruit and vegetable man anyway and also a lot of rest. And so, that's the key. I may be up early, but I'm to bed early, too.

GUPTA: What is that you say about your -- you know, the lifestyle that you're alluding to, to young people to get them to understand there's still a problem.

JOHNSON: the most important thing is this. Just because I'm doing well doesn't mean they're going to do well if they get HIV. Because we have to remember something, a lot of people have died since I announced. So this is not -- this disease is not going anywhere. And it's a tough disease to deal with.

So when I hit them with that, the room goes quiet. And I said the medicine is working in me, but because our bodies are different, it may not work in you.

I want to be here for a long time. So I'm going to do everything I have to do to be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Sanjay's compelling look at the changing face of AIDS, "RU Positive" airs tomorrow night. It begins in our regular time slot, 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN, followed by "CNN SUNDAY NIGHT".

Now 'tis the season where no expense is spared for those we love. Up next, we are heading to Beverly Hills, where it didn't mean a thing if ain't got that bling.

And get ready for some of your favorite holiday television specials. Up next, we'll find out what's hot this season for the whole family.

And don't forget our last call question. Is there any redeeming value to the J.F.K. video game? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In the spotlight tonight, terrorism. In particular, the roots of terrorism that run often deeply through entire families.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson met a relative and one time best friend of Osama bin Laden, a man who chose a different path. But nevertheless lives in the shadow of the world's most wanted terrorist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he shows off the day's catch at his seafood restaurant, there is little about Jamal Halifa that gives away his ambiguous past.

But this 47-year old Saudi was once Osama bin Laden's best friend.

JAMAL HALIFA, OSAMA'S FORMER BEST FRIEND: Ten years we are together. When we were in the university and after that always we are together. We live in one house.

ROBERTSON: Together seeking out and finding a brand of Islam that propelled them to a holy war against the Soviet army in Afghanistan.

HALIFA: He is the one who suggested that if I will marry his sister. I told him Osama, we are going to die and you are talking about marriage. So let's go first and if I come alive, we will do it. So I came alive.

ROBERTSON: He did marry bin Laden's sister, but today says he has nothing to do with his brother-in-law.

HALIFA: I am the first one who stood up in front of Osama and told him, Osama, you are doing something wrong. You are going to the wrong direction.

ROBERTSON: Halifa shows photos that back up his claim his role in the Afghan jihad was logistics, setting up Islamic schools in neighboring Pakistan. He says he had a ringside seat to witness the creation of al Qaeda.

HALIFA: So I saw him starting to group the Arabs in one place and start to let them go and fight by themselves, become like a function. They are doing their own war.

ROBERTSON: As the Afghan war against the Soviet occupation raged, he says bin Laden's military commander and others were already selecting recruits for al Qaeda's global campaign.

Bin Laden, he says, became a figurehead leader.

HALIFA: He is a wealthy man. He has very good connections. Many people really love Osama.

ROBERTSON: Charismatic, but disorganized, says Halifa. So much so, that while Halifa believes bin Laden is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, he doesn't think Osama actually organized them.

HALIFA: He cannot organize anything. I am the one who is leading. I am the one who is leading him in the prayer. I am the one who is leading if we go for outing, for picnic, for riding horses.

ROBERTSON: Exactly when and where Halifa chose a different path from Osama bin Laden is open to question. From the Afghan jihad, Halifa moved to the Philippines, setting up another Islamic charity, opening more religious schools, eventually triggering an investigation by Philippine authorities, who believed he was on a mission for bin Laden.

COL. BODGIE MENDOZA, PHILIPPINE NATIONAL POLICE: In 1994 up to 1995, my unit placed Mohammed Jalal Halifa on five investigation of surveillance.

ROBERTSON: Mendoza believed Halifa was running front companies, whose real mission was to recruit and train fighters for the Islamic Abu-Sayef insurgence.

When Ramzi Yousef, the 1993 World Trade Center bomber, bungled a bomb making session, setting fire to a Manila apartment, police retrieved Halifa's business card from the ruins.

ROBERTSON: Did you ever meet Ramzi Yousef or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?

HALIFA: Never. I don't know them.

ROBERTSON: Halifa is passionate in his own defense.

HALIFA: I have very, very full confidence that nobody can prove all these allegations.

NAWAF OBAIB, SAUDI NATL. SECURITY CONSULTANT: As of today, you know, Mr. Halifa does not present any security threat to any government.

ROBERTSON: Today, Halifa is surprised to see how his brother-in- law has aged in his latest video. He has urged bin Laden to end anti- Western attacks in Saudi Arabia.

HALIFA: Please, come out, tell those people to stop. You are the one who can tell that and you are the one who can stop it.

ROBERTSON: Did he listen to you?

HALIFA: Of course, not at all.

ROBERTSON: Fisher of men or fish salesman now. Whatever the truth, Halifa has insights about bin Laden few others can claim.

How has he managed to avoid being captured for so long?

HALIFA: Who is going to capture him and where? Ten years, the Russians did not capture even one leader of the Afghan mujahadeen with the full forces everywhere. So I think it is a little bit of difficult.

ROBERTSON: Nic Robertson, CNN, Jedda, Saudi Arabia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Family ties in the spotlight. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Tis the season to be shopping. And if spending is what you do best, world famous Rodeo Drive is offering a few suggestions on how to do it just right.

CNN'S Miguel Marquez shows us what's hot on the list of holiday bling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Beverly Hills...

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's where the high end meets the higher end. And it's part Rodeo Drive with its decadent decorations, crystal chandeliers hanging like street lights. Beverly Hills is retail nirvana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to head over there and do some damage over there.

MICHAEL ROBINSON, BEVERLY HILLS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Beverly Hills has a reputation for the bling, bling. So we aren't going to run away from that. We're embracing it.

MARQUEZ: The Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce is embracing bling with a top 10 gift list.

ROBINSON: You have to find it only in Beverly Hills.

MARQUEZ: On the list, a $5,000 Ferrari surf board made to order by the Italian sports car manufacturer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't state that you could go faster, but I guarantee it'll make you look a lot better on the waves.

MARQUEZ: On the list, low end, high calories cookies and cream cake filled with an orgy of caramel, marshmallow, chocolate and fudge. On a list high end, a one of a kind reproduction of 100 year old Russian candelabra, 13 feet of bacara crystal for $1.6 million.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a beautiful entry, it would be magnificent.

MARQUEZ: So exclusive it's not on the list and shown only by appointment, a naturally pink diamond, 10.3 million carats for $2 million.

(on camera): If you really want to show your love or just impress somebody a lot, you can always buy them a Ferrari 360 Spider for $245,000.

(voice-over): The 400 horsepower eight cylinder engine is for those who need to get from zero to 60 in 4.6 seconds. You can get one at Beverly Hills Classic Cars of course.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, welcome to Beverly Hills.

MARQUEZ: To help you find the perfect gift or just the right lunch spots is the latest in shopping overdrive, the holiday concierge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I shall refer all of our fabulous shoppers.

MARQUEZ: She does her referring, while rolling down Rodeo Drive on a Segue, which is of course, for sale.

(on camera): For $4500, you can always get a Segue.

ROSEANNE BARR, CELEBRITY: I think this thing that you don't have to move your ass one inch is like awesome.

MARQUEZ: So Roseanne Barr wants a Segue, but she wants something else even more.

BARR: Having people that love you and care about you is the best gift at all. And it doesn't cost a dime.

MARQUEZ: Happy holidays and have a great time.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, Beverly Hills, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, spending time with the family in front of the television, that's another topic. Up next, we're going to preview some of the hottest programs for the whole family this holiday season, including some classics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Some of our fondest holiday memories aren't even real. They're what we've actually seen on the big screen or the small one this time of year. "Miracle on 34th Street" or "Charlie Brown's Christmas" are just a couple of examples.

And here to talk about what's hot and new this holiday season is Melissa Grego, news editor for "Television Week."

Happy holidays, Melissa.

MELISSA GREGO, NEWS EDITOR, "TELEVISION WEEK": Thank you so much. Happy holidays to you.

LIN: Let's talk about what's new. I mean, what's a holiday season without Jim Carrey?

GREGO: What's a holiday season -- you know, between Thanksgiving and New Year's, in addition to all the parades and football that you're always going to see, you're going to see a lot of animated classics. You'll see lots of classic theatricals, like "Miracle on 34th Street" and shows like that, "How the Grinch Who Stole Christmas." But you're also going to see a number of takes on TV movies. You'll also see some reality specials, like the "Nick and Jessica Special" on ABC.

LIN: "The Nick and Jessica Special" on ABC. As we're watching clips of the Grinch here, Jim Carrey -- I don't think he could be any better cast.

GREGO: The Grinch?

LIN: Yes.

GREGO: Absolutely. Absolutely. And casting is key. And when it comes to holiday classics or shows and movies that become holiday classics, it's all about character. Whether it's an original character, or a new take on a classic figure, you know...

LIN: Right.

GREGO: ...whether it's a new take on, you know, Kris Kringle or Santa Claus or the Grinch...

LIN: Right.

GREGO: ...that's absolutely key.

LIN: So you brought up Nick and Jessica, because you know, you've seen the tabloids, right?

GREGO: I'm sorry. Can you say that again?

LIN: I said you brought up Nick and Jessica, right, Jessica Simpson we're talking about and her husband, Nick Lacher. And you know, in the tabloids, there's this whole like scandal about whether he was with this stripper, and whether they're living apart now. So you know, I don't how much of a holiday family special that's really going to be.

GREGO: Well, honestly, I think a special like that in a lot of ways, while it is, you know, starring the latest, hottest next big thing, and while the stars of that show may be, you know, followed in the tabloids, just that's -- it's a matter of, you know, how popular they are.

LIN: Right.

GREGO: Audiences today really are interested in...

LIN: But that's kind of a flash in the pant, compared to Charlie Brown, right?

GREGO: They are, but a show like that, at the same time, is somewhat of a throw back. It's a variety special that, you know, really recalls, you know, images of Sonny and Cher or Donnie and Marie, which really were, you know, classic forms.

So in a way, while the stars might be in the tabloids, the form really is somewhat of a classic form.

LIN: Yes. Because you know, you think about Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer, the animation.

GREGO: Exactly.

LIN: I mean, that has been around for -- I don't know how long. I mean...

GREGO: Actually 40 years. This is the...

LIN: 40 years.

GREGO: This is its 40th year. And you know, it's a great example of a holiday classic on TV. You know, holiday classic really is something that has broad enduring appeal. It's got, you know, oftentimes a fantastic element that really taps into that magical feeling that we, you know, somehow seem to get during the holidays.

LIN: Right.

GREGO: And it's really -- it's just something that, you know, oftentimes has feel good themes, things like that. And honestly, when it comes to things like the "Nick and Jessica Special," I think they'll continue to focus on, you know, feel good and family themes.

LIN: Right. Although I will guarantee you, we are not going to be seeing Jessica Simpson and Nick Lacher in 40 years.

GREGO: Well, you know, I'm sure that they're hoping. I doubt that they're betting.

LIN: All right. The demographics are moving that way, at least. So what to avoid, do you think, Melissa? I mean what would you say don't even waste your time on?

GREGO: I'm so sorry, can you say that again?

LIN: What should we avoid and not even waste our time on?

GREGO: You know, from here to now, there's actually -- there are so many good things to watch. I don't think there's too much to worry about as far as things to avoid, inappropriate.

So this really is the time -- one of those times of year in TV where the television business can really bring viewers together.

LIN: All right.

GREGO: There are so many of those shows that we share a common experience. Like you mention, Rudolph...

LIN: OK.

GREGO: ...Frosty. And you know, I think there are a lot of things that there are so many things to pick. LIN: Good deal.

GREGO: Yes, absolutely.

LIN: All right, thanks very much, Melissa Grego. You have a great holiday.

GREGO: Thank you. You, too.

LIN: Melissa Grego with "Television Week."

That's all the time we have for this evening. And speaking of watching, we're so glad that you did with us. And we want to hear your responses to our last call question. And we were talking about that controversial video game. Is there any redeeming value to the J.F.K. video game? Here's what you had to say. Have a great night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: No, there is no redeeming value to teaching children how to assassinate a president.

CALLER: Of course there's a redeeming value to a J.F.K. video game. It's equivalent to any other video game we have out there.

CALLER: I think it's very inappropriate for this game to be on the market or even to be downloaded. It gives us game designers who actually want to design games for the future for better purposes a bad name.

CALLER: There's absolutely no educational value in this game at all. Are you kidding me?

CALLER: No, there is no redeeming value to it, unless you call money a redeeming value. But don't forget what love of money is.

CALLER: Absolutely not. I think it's the worse example we can set for these children that are killing people in the schools.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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