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NANCY GRACE

BTK Suspect in a Court of Law; Teenager Charged With Killing Sister, Nephew Was Allegedly Molested

Aired April 19, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, "Bind, Torture, Kill," the BTK killer, who police say is responsible for at least ten brutal murders, he outsmarted police for over 20 years. Today, Dennis Rader is in a court of law.
And a man who lived -- listen -- a man who lived in his married girlfriend`s closet, tonight he is facing murder charges after the husband was found beaten to death.

And remember Tracey Dyess, the teenager charged with setting her house on fire, killing little sister and a nephew? She will be tried as an adult. Tonight, stunning allegations that she was molested by her stepfather for years.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Imagine waking up in the middle of the night, hearing something, and then finding an intruder hiding in your closet. Then as it turns out, he`s been living there for a solid month. And he`s your spouse`s lover. Well, obviously, there`s no good ending to this story, but think murder one.

And she`s sweet 17. Instead of going to the prom, she`s facing trial for setting her house on fire and killing her little sister and nephew.

But first, the suspect in the BTK serial killings, Dennis Rader, in court today. Ten dead bodies that is we know of.

Tonight, in Memphis, Jeff Davis, whose mother was allegedly murdered by the BTK killer; in San Francisco, defense attorney Daniel Horowitz; in New York, defense attorney Richard Herman; and also with us, therapist Caryn Stark.

But first to McPherson, Kansas, and KAKE-TV reporter Larry Hatteberg.

Larry, it`s good to see you again, friend. Bring me up-to-date.

LARRY HATTEBERG, REPORTER, KAKE-TV: And good to be here. Well, what happened today, it was a very brief time for alleged serial killer Dennis Rader in court today. He made his real first court appearance where he actually appeared in the courtroom.

And to really the surprise of everyone, he waived his preliminary hearing. Everybody thought that they would go ahead today with the preliminary hearing. But apparently, Dennis Rader told his attorneys this morning, before they went into court, that he wanted to waive that preliminary hearing.

So once they got in court, the defense attorneys got up and told the judge they wanted to waive the preliminary. And that surprised everybody in the courtroom. And they asked for a continuance then on the arraignment. The arraignment will now take place in two weeks. So we don`t yet know how he will plead, either guilty or not guilty. That remains to be seen.

GRACE: So, Larry, if the preliminary hearing had gone forward today, would he have been arraigned today? In other words, time for him to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty? Would that have happened today?

HATTEBERG: Well, the experts who have been following this case say the arraignment would have probably taken -- rather the preliminary hearing would have probably taken anywhere from four to seven days with the arraignment following after that.

GRACE: OK.

HATTEBERG: So we`re not exactly sure how long it would have taken, but that didn`t happen today.

GRACE: You know what? We are showing video right now, flashback to the time of the murders.

And I`m going to go to a very special guest with us tonight, Jeff Davis. He`s joining us from Memphis, Tennessee. And his mother allegedly killed by the BTK killer.

Jeff, I know it`s got tear you up to see video like this.

JEFF DAVIS, MOTHER WAS ALLEGEDLY KILLED BY BTK KILLER: Well, yes. Of course, I have had 14 years to prepare for this. But every time they show her being pulled up out of the ravine and show the house and everything, you know, it`s kind of pulls the scab off.

GRACE: What were the circumstances around your mom`s death?

DAVIS: She had been reported to us by the sheriff`s office as missing from her home. Her home had been entered and gone through in various fashions. And she was -- the missing part was the most disconcerting.

And what little time I spent in law enforcement, that pretty well let me conclude that she`s out, she`s gone, she is missing, she is dead. But we didn`t find out for 13 days after that.

GRACE: That must have been horrible, 13 days of not knowing.

To KAKE-TV`s Larry Hatteberg. Larry, what were the similarities in the murders? I mean, how would this guy, Dennis Rader -- crazy, look at him.

Renee, yes, thank you.

Look at this guy. He looks like your typical park ranger or your municipal cop. He doesn`t look so good in the orange jumpsuit, of course. But the thing is, what`s so unusual is this guy looks like your mild- mannered next-door neighbor. This is BTK, for Pete`s sake, a serial killer.

HATTEBERG: Right. And that, Nancy, is exactly the scariest part, because he was the guy next door. As one of the investigators and the former police chief said, who have worked this case for many, many years, you could be sleeping with this guy and not have known it was BTK. He really had the Jekyll-Hyde personality.

He was going to the movies with us. He was going to the mall with us. And he was living next door to us. And I think that`s the thing that terrifies Kansans, is he was one of us, and he was right next door. And you`re right. He looked like everybody else. And there was no way to tell that this man, this alleged murderer, was BTK.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Larry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE IN BTK KILLER TRIAL: Sir, you understand, if you waive a preliminary hearing you will give up the right you have to require the state to bring witnesses to court to show that there was probable cause to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ten counts of murder in the first-degree have been committed, have probable cause to believe you committed those felonies?

DENNIS RADER, ALLEGED BTK KILLER: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Rader chose to waive the preliminary hearing, allowing the court to find the probable cause existed, that the crimes have been committed, those ten homicides spanning those 30 years, and that probable cause existed that he committed those crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Defense attorney Richard Herman, why waive the preliminary hearing? Usually defense attorneys love that. It`s all on the state. The defense doesn`t have to put anything up, and they can go on a fishing expedition with the state`s witnesses, get a preview of the trial. Why waive it?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you are 100 percent right there. This defense attorney, he seems like he`s...

GRACE: Hold on, wait on a minute. I`m not used to that coming from Richard Herman. OK, go ahead.

HERMAN: Well, look, we need -- you know defense attorneys love those preliminary hearings.

GRACE: Yes.

HERMAN: You get a taste of the case. You get to see what it`s all about. This defense attorney seems to be drinking a little bit too much Jesus Juice these days. I understand he`s going to enter a plea of not guilty, from reports I`ve read. He`s waiving an insanity defense.

And I mean, it`s incredible. He is ready to -- he`s going to go to trial in this case, and he`s not going to make a motion for change of venue.

GRACE: Well, wait a minute. To Daniel Horowitz, Daniel, what difference is it to him? He is not going to get the death penalty regardless of what happens. He could take a plea to life or he can go to trial and get life.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly.

GRACE: I mean, so really, Daniel, it`s half dozen, six in the other.

HOROWITZ: Right. Nancy, the attack on the defense attorney is totally wrong. Both Mr. Rader and the attorney waived preliminary hearing for two very good reasons. First, genuine compassion for the victim. Rader is a Jekyll and Hyde, Nancy. We know what the evil side is...

GRACE: I can`t believe you said that, but go on.

HOROWITZ: It`s a fact. And there`s a good part to him. He wants to spare his family, and so does the attorney. Also, what good does it do to parade all this gruesome horror that the public just revels in it? It does nothing for Rader. Look...

GRACE: But you know what, Daniel? Daniel, you know how much I hate to interrupt you, but the person that reveled in this is the killer. If you don`t believe me, let`s go to Larry Hatteberg.

Larry, the circumstances of these peoples` death -- remember the little girl, just the family member that was killed, was hung by BTK after being sexually assaulted?

HATTEBERG: Right.

GRACE: I mean, this guy does not have pity for his victims. Describe the circumstances of these deaths, Larry.

HATTEBERG: Well, all of these deaths were horrible. They were ritual-type of killings. And his name, of course, BTK, bind, torture, kill, that`s exactly what he did.

And in many cases, he would take pictures of his victim. We understand sometimes...

GRACE: Oh, god.

HATTEBERG: ... he would take a picture before he killed them and then take another picture after he killed them. I mean, this guy was the real deal. He was very serious about what he did.

But the thing that he liked the most was publicity. He loves the publicity. He loved seeing his name on television. He loved reading about himself in the newspaper and in the news magazines. And you have to remember that BTK lived for the publicity.

And I remember in one letter that he wrote to us way back in the 1970s, he said, quote, "How many more people do I have to kill before I get my name in the paper?" This is how much he wanted the publicity.

GRACE: Once again, we need a shrink.

Caryn Stark, for a guy that loves the limelight so much, I find it very unusual that he didn`t want to go through with the prelim today.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think part of that, Nancy, because he really does need to be in the limelight -- is that he wants to spare the family. I think that that`s a good point. However...

GRACE: Caryn, he does not want to spare the family. He hung a little girl after sexually assaulting her.

STARK: And I all know all those...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Before-and-after pictures?

STARK: I know, all those details, which is why this is surprising and has to be about his family, Nancy, because this guy...

GRACE: His family?

STARK: Yes, his family.

GRACE: OK.

STARK: Because this guy really, really would go out of his way to get in touch with the authorities to relive his crimes by giving details to them of what he`d done, which is not unusual at all for a serial killer.

GRACE: And of course, the way this guy got caught is by sending cops and media yet another missive, including the driver`s license of a victim from over 20 years ago. It`s like waving a red flag, "Come get me." Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORMAN WILLIAMS, WICHITA CHIEF OF POLICE: At approximately 12:15 p.m. on Friday, February 25, 2005, the serial killer known as BTK was arrested in Park City, Kansas. Dennis L. Rader has been arrested in connection with ten homicides that span 31 years in the city of Wichita and Sedgwick County.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN RELFORD, SON OF BTK VICTIM: I let the BTK in my house. He asked where my mother was, where my parents were. My mom was sick in bed. So immediately he starts pulling down the blinds, turns off the TV, reaches in his shoulder holster and pulls out a pistol.

After that, he took a rope and tied one of the doors shut at the doorknob, turned to the sink, pushed the bed up against the other door, stripped my mother, taped her hands behind her back, put a plastic bag over her head and rope tied her around her neck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is the adult son of one of the murder victims.

Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

Bind, torture, kill -- it`s not from some horror novel. It`s the name this man gave himself. Forget the name he wants us to know him by, BTK. This is Dennis Rader. And he is facing trial for ten brutal murders.

You know, Larry Hatteberg, to call him BTK Killer plays right into his ego. I don`t even think we should call him BTK, because he gets some kind of a weird pleasure out of being known as almost super-human. I mean, the way these ladies died, the way that little girl died, is an outrage. Could you explain to me how this guy is not facing the death penalty?

HATTEBERG: Well, he is not facing the death penalty because the death penalty in Kansas was not instituted until 1994 and all of his murders occurred prior to 1994. So he is not eligible for the death penalty. He can get life in prison but not the death penalty at this point.

GRACE: What was the common factor amongst all the victims, Larry?

HATTEBERG: Well, you know, that`s the interesting thing. And the police have searched, and searched, and searched for some commonality between all the victims. And they can`t find anything other than, after the Otero family -- and the Otero family was the first family that he killed, a family of four -- after that, it was all women. So the only thing that`s really in common is that they were all women.

Now, police investigators to this point, and many observers, believe that most of these killings were absolutely random. We don`t know, without talking to Dennis Rader himself, whether he drove down the street and he said, "She`s next. We don`t know if he did that.

It appears that they were all random. So he may have done just that.

GRACE: To Jeff Davis, whose mother killed, allegedly, by Dennis Rader, who calls himself the BTK Killer. How has the murder of your mom -- we`re coming up on Mother`s Day in May. How has the murder affected your life?

DAVIS: Well, probably the same as every other person who`s left in the wake of this human abomination`s actions. They`re scarred emotionally.

In my case, it was a big factor, in my marriage breaking up. It caused me about five years of just sustenance living where I really didn`t care whether I saw another day or not. It had a profound impact on both my kids, because they were impressionable. So now that he`s given them the pleasure of being second-generation victims.

What this animal and his ilk do to society is pretty insidious, because you don`t really see it. You see the victims. You see their faces. You know what happened to them physically. But the ripple effect that carries out a long ways across a lot of people is that they have major psychological issues. Some of them lose their faith. Some of them become alcoholics.

There`s just an untold count of casualties, vicarious injuries, that occur to those of us who are left behind. And in any event, however we begin to recover or recuperate, the damage is done. It`s done forever. And all we do is just try to deal with it.

GRACE: You know, Jeff, while you were talking, I was thinking about my own mom and, obviously, I`m a grown woman. Do you know what she did the last time I was at home visiting? She put a $20 bill in my back.

DAVIS: Yes.

GRACE: And I`m just thinking about what you were saying, how even as your life goes on, the things you miss.

DAVIS: Right, just little things like that. Yes, exactly.

You know, she had certain ways she would refer to me. She called me, "Hon." I don`t think she was an Elvis fan, but seemed to like that term. And she, you know, she`d always remind me to do things that I was going to do anyway, like wear my seat belt and, you know, use my head.

So, yes, those things you miss. And it makes you detest and despise those social deviants like this. I don`t call him a person. I`m going to de-personify him. I`m going to be a little less gracious than your other guest, because I`m looking at it from a little different perspective than they are.

And I`m going to call him what I think he is. And I think he is the lowest order of evolution of social sewage that we have in our society. And he doesn`t even deserve to be referred to as a man or a human. He is a mockery of mankind. He is a defamation of humanity. So I`ll refer to him in the neutral third person, it.

GRACE: And Jeff, as I say good night, it`s not just the murder. It`s not just the murder. It`s the method of the murder...

DAVIS: Oh, yes.

GRACE: ... the seeming enjoyment of torturing people.

DAVIS: Oh, yes. And I think it reflects -- if he did have a humanity, it reflects his sick, pathetic, impotent, want-to-be, nothing, loser identity that he spent those 30 years pursuing his own little twisted psychosexual fantasy.

And the women and children that he killed were nothing more than objects of his perverted little fantasies and whatever went on in that broken-down building of a mind that runs his body was pursuing.

And everything he did, it was even more driven by power than it was any kind of sexual overtones. He enjoyed every last minute of looking in their eyes and seeing the fear and the final resignation that they knew they were going to die. And that made him God. And that`s what he subsisted on for 30 years.

GRACE: Jeff Davis, I really respect you for being able to speak to the public tonight about your mom and what you`ve lived through. It`s just been hell, your marriage, now your children suffering from what this guy did to your mom.

But I want to thank you more than anything for speaking out tonight, Jeff. Thank you.

DAVIS: OK. Thanks, Nancy.

GRACE: We`re going to go to break.

And as we go to break, let`s go to "Trial Tracking": The prosecution in the Michael Jackson child sex trial expects to rest its case by the end of next week. It`s been nine weeks of bizarre, graphic testimony about his alleged behavior with his teenaged accuser, a little boy.

The mother of Jackson`s accuser finished her testimony today after a five long days on the witness stand. Jackson`s defense lawyer, Tom Mesereau, worked in one more strike against her credibility by challenging her account of a `98 altercation with security guards at a JC Penney department store. She says her family and she were badly beaten during that incident.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA FREEMAN, HUSBAND ALLEGEDLY KILLED BY LOVER: I was in the other room, just with my hands over my head, just in absolute fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you call the police?

FREEMAN: No, ma`am, I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not?

FREEMAN: I was absolutely terrified of what was going on. If he could have done this to my husband, I`m not sure what he was going to do to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, let`s just clear that up, Ms. Freeman. He was sleeping with you, not with your husband.

Now, if you heard your husband, your spouse, getting beaten to death in the next room, would you call police? Would you call 911? Would you try to attack the attacker? Or would you, like Ms. Freeman, just put the pillow over your head and try to get a good night`s sleep?

Tonight in Nashville, "The Tennessean" regional editor, Aldrin Brown.

Welcome, Mr. Brown. Thank you for being with us. Have you ever heard anything like this in your life?

ALDRIN BROWN, REGIONAL EDITOR, "THE TENNESSEAN": This is certainly an unusual case.

GRACE: Well, you are putting perfume on the pig, sir, because from my understanding, the perpetrator, the "alleged" perpetrator lived in his married lover`s closet for about a month and then he`s now on trial for bludgeoning her husband to death. And she just said she hid under a pillow. Is this right? Is this correct?

BROWN: That is what she said. And certainly, that`s -- I should say that Mr. Rocha-Perez, the alleged killer here, has denied that he lived continuously in that closet. Police have indicated that they found a foam mat on the floor of the two-foot-by-eight-foot closet. And she says that he has been living there for the better part of a month, certainly.

GRACE: Well, Aldrin, when we get back -- Aldrin is the regional editor of "The Tennessean" -- the fact that he didn`t live in the closet continuously is not much of a defense, sir.

I`ll be right back with you. What a story. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I hope the state doesn`t (INAUDIBLE) here to testify.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve asked several times before I`ve needed an attorney.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police say a 44-year-old man was murdered when he discovered his wife`s lover living in the closet.

Let me quickly go to Aldrin Brown, who is the regional editor at "The Tennessean."

Aldrin, I kind of jumped the gun on this. I went immediately to this wife`s fantastic story, that she hid under the pillow while her husband was getting beaten to death in the bathroom. Tell me what this case is all about.

BROWN: Well, the case is about a man who came home and, as you`ve said Nancy, surprised his wife`s lover. And, mind you, this is all according to Martha Freeman, who is the only one who has made any statements about this, as far as we know, to police or publicly yesterday during the court hearing.

Jeffrey Freeman surprised his wife`s lover. He came out, said that he was going to go walk the dog, and that he wanted this man out of his home before he returned. Instead of leaving, the man brandished a shotgun that he picked up from the bedroom, ordered Mr. Freeman into the bathroom and -- or dragged Mr. Freeman into the bathroom, depending on what account, and bludgeoned him to death and possibly strangled him according to the testimony of some detectives.

Again, I should reiterate, all of this is the testimony of Martha Freeman, Jeffrey Freeman`s wife. And there are a lot of questions about the credibility of that.

GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact -- Elizabeth (ph), do we have that sound bite from the judge?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Rocha-Perez did whatever he wanted to do in the house, as far as eating or watching TV or playing video games.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeff told me...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. Hold on. Elizabeth, I`m out here, dear. That was the wife. When you dig up the judge, that`s typically an old guy sitting on the bench in a black dress. Let me know.

But Aldrin Brown, back to you. The judge was even skeptical of the wife`s testimony.

BROWN: It was very unusual in my experience to hear a judge make the sorts of statement that is this judge made from the bench yesterday during a preliminary hearing.

He stopped the hearing and indicated that he was concerned that she was making statements that were incriminating. He indicated to no one in particular, as best I could tell, that he hoped that the state was not taking what Ms. Freeman said as the truth, because he sure wasn`t and indicated at one point that he expected that she could be charged in this case and, in fact, that maybe she should be charged in this case.

GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, they took a break in court and she came back and took the Fifth Amendment.

Daniel Horowitz, you`re a defense attorney. If this woman were your client, would you be feeling the heat about right now? I mean, the judge basically said, ma`am, you need the stop talking because you`re in trouble. And she leaves and comes back and takes the fifth and stops testifying.

HOROWITZ: Nancy, this person`s story is so incredible.

What husband comes home, finds a man in the closet and says, OK, I`m going to walk the dog.

GRACE: Walk the dog.

HOROWITZ: Right there, you know it`s crazy. Then this business about the shotgun, but instead of shooting him, he beats him in the bathroom.

This seems like either a fight between two guys over a woman who doesn`t deserve it or maybe, maybe this wife set up her husband. Maybe she`s a Svengali behind all of this. But I`d be worried if I represented her.

GRACE: It`s interesting that you said that, because -- the setting up the husband part, because, you know, every Sunday night, this victim, Jeffrey Freeman, would call his mom. But that Sunday night, well in advance, she calls the mom, her mother-in-law, and says, my husband, he took some cough syrup and has gone to sleep, so he won`t be calling tonight.

And, lo and behold, that night, later on, according to her, he gets bludgeoned to death by her lover, who`s been living in the closet.

Caryn Stark, give us a shrink job on this, please.

STARK: Well, first of all, Nancy, I do want to add that the judge I believe said that, this is so bizarre. He volunteered himself that it`s a bizarre case. We are talking about a woman who`s bipolar and is telling this story.

they are private investigators, this woman and her husband, and they check out people`s backgrounds. So, they look for skeletons in people`s closets for future employees. And here they have somebody in their own closet.

GRACE: Literally in their closet.

STARK: Yes, in the closet.

GRACE: Well, another issue, Richard Herman, I think that we`re looking at an indictment with co-indictees, co-defendants, because there`s no way this woman didn`t know what was going on. What would you advise at this juncture, Stockholm syndrome to pretend she was brainwashed?

HERMAN: You know, Nancy, it`s not a plus when the judge tells you to stop talking; you might be indicted. That`s a very bad sign if you are testifying. She is going down. She is going to get indicted. This story is preposterous.

Everyone knows it. And when it`s this preposterous, it`s because it is a lie. She`s going down. But, Nancy, you better check your closet tonight and make sure Michael Jackson is not in there. I`ll tell you that.

GRACE: Hey. All of my closets, ever since we started the Michael Jackson case, are totally open.

HERMAN: I know that.

GRACE: I`m not even -- I don`t want to see what`s in there when I get home.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Aldrin Brown, question to you, my famous words. Do you guys have the death penalty in your jurisdiction?

BROWN: We do have the death penalty here in the state of Tennessee.

GRACE: Has there been any talk of these two facing the death penalty? It`s obviously -- if all these facts are true, it`s obviously premeditated.

BROWN: It is a little premature at this point. We don`t have any information from the district attorney`s office about how they plan to proceed.

GRACE: What about e-mail, Aldrin? Are they checking this woman`s e- mail?

BROWN: They are, indeed. She apparently sent some e-mails to some friends where she described -- I heard one of your other guests indicate that she was bipolar. She was taking bipolar medication. She indicated that she was manic depressive, that she and her husband had split for about six months and she had been living at a motel and that they`d recently reconciled.

This is according to some e-mails in early February.

GRACE: Well, you just told me what the defense is going to be.

You know it, Daniel Horowitz. Bipolar. I was on my medication and it`s the devil. It made me commit murder. There you have it. That`s her defense.

(CROSSTALK)

HOROWITZ: Spousal abuse, throw that in also.

GRACE: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And, in retrospect, now that I think about it, I was a battered woman. That`s what she is going to argue.

HOROWITZ: That`s what I think.

But the good news for the prosecution side is that a jail cell -- well, actually, a jail cell is bigger than a closet. So, his lifestyle is improving.

GRACE: Well, let me go back to you, Aldrin Brown. How did this guy live -- although you`re contesting the full month continuously. Aldrin Brown, Aldrin is the regional editor with "The Tennessean."

How did this guy get away with living in the closet for about a month and how was he finally detected?

BROWN: Well, he was -- it`s -- as you indicated, it is unclear. He denies that he was living there continuously, only that Mrs. Freeman would go and pick him regularly when she wanted to see him.

Mrs. Freeman testified yesterday that he lived in the closet. As I indicated, there was a foam mat on the floor of that closet. She said that, while her husband was at home, he remained in that closet. When her husband was away at work working long hours, that Mr. Rocha-Perez has free rein of the house and he would play video games and watch television.

GRACE: I`ve got a funny feeling that`s not all he did, Aldrin.

What did Jeffrey Freeman do for a living?

BROWN: Mrs. and Mr. Freeman operated a private investigation firm in the city of Brentwood. It`s a suburb of Nashville.

GRACE: So, it was their own firm?

BROWN: I`m sorry? Could you repeat that?

GRACE: They worked in their own firm, their own P.I. firm?

BROWN: That is correct.

GRACE: And it took hearing this guy snoring in the closet for a P.I. to figure out there was another man in the house? Something -- two and two is not equaling four in this story. I`m just telling you. We`re not getting the whole story here, Aldrin.

BROWN: You know, there are a lot of people who are questioning the credibility of Mrs. Freeman. At this point, we don`t know everything that the police know.

And obviously, the judge is perplexed as to why she hasn`t been implicated in this case.

GRACE: We`re taking a quick break, everyone. This story proves that the truth is in fact stranger than fiction.

Please stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was not my place to go into that home. Martha was scared. I didn`t -- we didn`t know if the person was still in there. And I felt that was not my place to go do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA RUSH, NEIGHBOR: Well, about 2:00 in the morning, I heard somebody hollering outside the window of our bedroom. And I looked out and the house across the street was just in flames. It was horrifying. I can`t imagine losing my children to a fire like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

A 17-year-old girl should be preparing for the junior, senior prom, maybe filling out college applications. Not so in this case. This young girl, Tracey Dyess, is going to be tried as an adult for the murder by arson of not only her little sister, but her little nephew that was being raised as her brother.

Take a look at these two children. On the other side of the scales of lady justice is her allegation, Tracey Dyess, that her stepfather had been molesting her for years. And now, as it turns out, found in the stepfather`s bedroom in a safe were naked photos of this girl, his stepdaughter, photos of her engaged in sex acts.

Here`s a shot of him. He, of course, didn`t die in the fire.

Hey, Elizabeth, can you show me a shot of Tracey Dyess? A lot of you thought we were showing a picture of a boy last time. She apparently cut off her hair.

And, of course, Caryn Stark, when a woman cuts -- a girl cuts off her hair, this -- like this, it`s a telltale sign. This often happens after women are raped.

STARK: And they don`t want their femininity, Nancy. What they`re trying to do is identify with the aggressor. And men have power. So they`re taking away the feminine and they`re introducing the masculine to try and take away the abuse.

GRACE: Let me go to "The Des Moines Register" reporter. Joining us, Juli Probasco-Sowers.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Juli, could you brings us up to date, friend?

JULI PROBASCO-SOWERS, "THE DES MOINES REGISTER": Well, the judge just yesterday ruled that she should be tried as an adult, and even though her attorney argued that, because of the abuse and the way she was brought up, played a huge role in this, because he wanted to see her tried in juvenile court.

GRACE: Yes. Yes.

I`m going to go very quickly -- now, I`m having a hard time hearing Juli -- to the Cass County district attorney. Dan Feistner is with us.

Welcome, sir.

You had told us earlier that she was going to be tried most likely as an adult. That is not unusual. You are looking at a double murder charge here of two little children. She is 17. That -- under those circumstances, people are normally treated as an adult. What is the major opposition to you treating her as an adult and trying her in adult court?

DAN FEISTNER, CASS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The major opposition?

GRACE: Yes.

FEISTNER: Well, I think some information had come out about how she was treated and the duration of time that it had occurred and whether or not those might be mitigating factors, coupled with her age. However, because the Iowa code requires that I charge her as an adult given the fact she`s over 16, I didn`t have any choice. The state didn`t have a choice in this matter but to charge her as such.

GRACE: Let me ask you, Dan Feistner, what can you tell me about these photos that were found in the safe in the home?

FEISTNER: Information had been provided to the state through the defendant in this matter, Tracey Dyess. She was interviewed after the fire. She was interviewed by the Division of Criminal Investigations, along with the Cass County sheriff in the presence of her attorney. Information was gathered from her, which...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The photos, the photos, the photos. Were there photos in a safe?

FEISTNER: This information came from Tracey Dyess in an interview. She gave specific information about photos and other items found in a safe. A search warrant was obtained and law enforcement officials went to the house and found photos, which she specifically stated were there and where she stated they would be.

GRACE: Thank you.

Let me go to Greg Steensland. He is Dyess` defense attorney.

Greg, I never had any doubt that your client was going to be tried as an adult, but this is a huge, huge defense strategy, to use these -- was it 65 photos of your client?

GREG STEENSLAND, ATTORNEY FOR TRACEY DYESS: Yes. There were 65 photos depicting various nudity and sex acts.

GRACE: With the stepfather?

STEENSLAND: Yes.

GRACE: You know, what I don`t understand, Greg -- now, has the stepfather been charged with anything?

STEENSLAND: Yes. He`s been charged with 10 counts of sexual abuse against my client, Tracey.

GRACE: Well, what will your defense be?

STEENSLAND: Well, we`re looking at all defenses.

Primarily, we are looking at two different tactics. And I have to develop things a little further, but I`m looking at justification by defense of self and others. And I`m looking at mental health defenses, which would include diminished capacity and legal insanity.

GRACE: You know, when I think of what this girl went through, I`m wondering, where was her mother during all of this? I`m understanding now that the mother, her natural, her biological mother, has come forward and stated her girl had been molested for years. Can you explain that to me, Greg?

STEENSLAND: Can I explain it to you in terms that...

GRACE: Well, is that true?

STEENSLAND: Yes. That is exactly what she told the court. I put her on the stand as a witness at the hearing on my motion to have the case transferred to juvenile court.

And she acknowledged that Tracey`s been abused since she was about 4 years old.

GRACE: Including by her husband?

STEENSLAND: Are you talking about Brian Street? We are talking about several different persons here. It wasn`t always the same person.

GRACE: Yes, I know. This mom was a bigamist. But I`m talking about the stepfather.

STEENSLAND: Yes, by him, yes.

GRACE: You know, I`ve got to ask you, the district attorney, Dan Feistner, have you considered charging the mom with anything? She let a girl be abused for 14 years? The girl finally burned the house down and these two children have been murdered?

FEISTNER: Right.

The state has considered that, but it`s one thing to consider it and another thing to have probable, sufficient cause to charge her in this matter.

GRACE: Yes.

FEISTNER: I`m not stating that the state is not going to charge her. We have considered that matter. We`re aware of her bigamy.

GRACE: Yes.

FEISTNER: We`re also aware of these. And we take it very seriously. We do have a statute of limitations we are working with. But...

GRACE: Well, let me tell you something, Dan. The first thing I would do -- and I know my mom would do it, too -- your husband has got a safe. I would look straight in it and I would find out what he`s hiding from me. She had to know those photos of her daughter were in that safe.

We have got to take a break. Everyone will be right back.

Now to tonight`s all-points bulletin. FBI and law enforcement across this country looking for Roberto Ramirez, wanted for the January 2005 murder of a Chicago woman found bludgeoned to death in her apartment. Ramirez charged with murder one. An arrest warrant was issued. It charged him with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.

Take a look. Ramirez, 24 years old, 5`8``, between 160 and 200 pounds, brown eyes, black hair. Police consider him armed and dangerous. If you have any information on Roberto Ramirez, please call the FBI, 312- 431-1333.

Local news next for some of you. We`ll be right back.

And, remember, live coverage of the Jackson trial tomorrow, Court TV, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people.

Take a look at Diana Alagha. She went missing not even 3 years old. She is now 11, blonde hair, blue eyes, from the San Diego area. Any information on Diana Alagha, please call the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children, 1-800-THE-LOST. Please help us.

Welcome back, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace.

Before we say good night, I want to go back to my lawyers.

Daniel Horowitz, final thoughts?

HOROWITZ: Dan Feistner, prosecutor of Tracey, think about your job. It is to do justice, not just to prosecute. She deserves compassion. Do not treat her like a regular murderer. Give her some hope in life. Be kind to her.

GRACE: Daniel Horowitz, for once, I agree with you.

Richard Herman, final thoughts?

HERMAN: Nancy, one of the ripple effects -- one of the themes you touched on tonight were the ripple effect of these crimes and the impact on our families, all three cases just devastating, really.

GRACE: You know, right as we head into Mother`s Day.

Caryn Stark, what this -- I`m not negating what happened to the children. It`s horrible. But look what`s happened to her. What do you think?

STARK: I think that the abuse that she suffered, Nancy, clearly made her suffer from depersonalization. That happens to abused kids, where they separate from what happened. She couldn`t tell -- this had been going on since she was 4 years old, supposedly.

So, with a family with no morality, there`s a breakdown of boundaries. You really have to empathize with her and understand that she didn`t know it.

GRACE: Can you imagine your father having pictures of you and him having sex locked in the safe?

STARK: And he`s not the only one, and the mother did know it. The mother knew it.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The mother knew.

Everyone, we are saying good night. I want to thank all of my guests, but my biggest thank you, as always, is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home.

Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. I hope to see you right here tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern.

And I forgot to tell you something last night. Happy birthday, daddy.

Good night, friend.

END


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