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CNN BREAKING NEWS
Rice in Middle East; Armstrong's Race; Aiken Scrutinized; British Police Shoot Suspect
Aired July 22, 2005 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen in for Carol Costello today.
Good morning, everybody.
Coming up in the next 30 minutes, CNN learns Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice plans to take a detour. She's been meeting with officials in Israel, but will make a surprise trip to Lebanon. We'll explore that.
And he's still wearing the yellow jersey. Lance Armstrong is on the verge of winning the Tour De France for the seventh consecutive year. We go live to France and Paul Sherwen in just a few minutes.
But first, "Now in the News."
It'll be another day on Capitol Hill for Supreme Court nominee John Roberts. Roberts has been making courtesy calls on lawmakers who will ultimately vote on his nomination. So far, no one has come out against him, but concerns remain over his views on abortion.
A federal grand jury investigating the identity leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame is expected to meet today in Washington. A classified memo that clearly was marked as secret is the latest lead in the investigation.
And it's not only been hot in the desert, it is also quite windy. A heavy dust storm blew into the Phoenix area Thursday. At its height, you can see, well, but you can't hardly see.
Chad, what's up with this?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. It's known as a haboob. But...
NGUYEN: A who?
MYERS: A haboob, H-A-B-O-O-B.
MYERS: What happens is a thunderstorm is somewhere in Arizona and all of a sudden at the very end of the storm it collapses and all of the air falls to the ground. Well as the air falls to the ground, along with the end of the rain, it has to hit something and eventually it hits the ground. Can't go any farther down because the ground is in the way, so it has to go out. Like pouring a big bucket of water on the ground, the water doesn't stay in the middle, it goes out, and that's how that wind actually occurred.
NGUYEN: Yes, we'll see, that's been the case so far this year.
NGUYEN: Thank you.
MYERS: You're welcome.
NGUYEN: Condoleezza Rice has been on a difficult trouble- shooting mission. Washington wants the Israelis and Palestinians to coordinate an Israeli pullout from Gaza, but a flare-up of violence is threatening that.
Our John Vause is in Jerusalem, and he joins us now with the latest on this visit there.
Good morning -- John.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.
This is the third trip that Condoleezza Rice has made to this region since becoming Secretary of State in January. It was a last- minute decision to come here, added on to her trip to the Sudan. The decision was made because of the worsening violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians in recent weeks.
Now last night, the Secretary of State met with the Israeli Foreign Minister, Silvan Shalom. There was some reports and in fact she was proposing an international conference backed by the United States and Russia with the attendance of Arab nations to try and defuse the recent fighting.
Now senior State Department officials tell CNN they are aware of this proposed summit, but the idea is not coming from them. Ms. Rice is trying to get the Israelis and the Palestinians to renew their efforts, to coordinate the Gaza pullout. That will see more than 8,000 Jewish settlers and Israeli troops evacuated from the Gaza Strip in less than a month from now. The recent fighting, though, has meant that those talks have stalled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: I look forward to talking with both the Israelis and the Palestinians about the need for tight coordination and for rapid resolution of a number of key issues that are before the parties in advance of the disengagement. I also look forward to talking about the need to resist any efforts by terrorists to destroy this moment of hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Now this morning, Condoleezza Rice was flown by helicopter for a two-hour meeting with the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon at his ranch in the southern part of Israel. That meeting is now over. But on the agenda there, not only the coordination of the Gaza pullout, but also an Israeli request for hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. aid to help pay for the Gaza withdrawal.
Tomorrow, Secretary Rice will meet with Palestinian leaders. Their main area of concern, the continued growth of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
Now, last night, the Israeli Prime Minister said yet again that Israel will never give up those major settlement blocks in the West Bank -- Betty.
NGUYEN: John, there's a lot of issues on the table, it's a very touchy situation there. How much of the discussion dealing with Condoleezza Rice is going to be centering on preventing terrorists from dismantling this peace plan altogether?
VAUSE: Well the main concern that the Israeli government has when it comes to the Palestinian Authority is that the Palestinian Authority works to dismantle the terrorist infrastructures they call the groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Now that is a precondition, according to the Israelis, before they can get back into peace negotiations.
Now, so far the Palestinian Authority, President Mahmoud Abbas, has been trying to woo those militant groups, asking them to give up their weapons, trying to get them into the security services. The Israelis are saying that's not enough.
And the U.S. is agreeing with the Israeli side of this argument, saying that the Palestinian Authority must do more to rein in those militant groups and to disarm groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. That will be the message that Ms. Rice takes to the Palestinian Authority, President Mahmoud Abbas, when she meets with him in Ramallah tomorrow -- Betty.
NGUYEN: John Vause in Jerusalem, thank you for that update.
Now to Iraq, Saddam Hussein says his upcoming trial is a game. Saddam appeared in court Thursday in video of the hearing or in a video of that hearing. The ousted leader is critical of the proceedings and says he wants his attorney in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI PRESIDENT: I am detained and this is a game. I am detained by the Iraqi government, which is appointed by the Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Now the special tribunal has charged Saddam in connection with the 1982 series of executions following an assassination attempt.
Opening CNN's "Security Watch" for you now.
In New York, don't be surprised if a police officer comes up to you and says open up that backpack. Starting this morning, police will be doing random searches of bags and backpacks on the city's transit system. Authorities want to prevent any bombings like those seen recently in London.
And are you worried about what people might learn from your medical records? Under an extension of the Patriot Act, federal investigators would be allowed to search medical records and library records. The Senate has not yet voted on extending the act.
DEA agents arrested three Canadians they say built this 360-foot tunnel to allegedly smuggle drugs. Look at this, it comes up on the U.S. side into a living room, of all places, in a house in Lynden, Washington. U.S. officials say such tunnels could be used by terrorists. And they have been found on the U.S.-Mexican border. But this is the first one discovered linking Canada and the United States.
You want to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Still ahead here on DAYBREAK, New York commuters get ready to open their purses, bags and packages. It's a new antiterror move and it starts this morning.
Plus, his "American Idol" stardom has been sweet, but some say his charity work is hitting a sour note. We'll tell you what has people talking about Clay Aiken.
First, though, here's a look at what else is making news on this Friday morning.
NGUYEN: Got some "Health Headlines" for you on this Friday morning.
Here is something I bet that you didn't know. You are being exposed to fewer dangerous chemicals than you were back in the 1990s. That is according to the latest findings of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Now the CDC says our bodies contain lower levels of lead, byproducts from smoke and other dangerous environmental chemicals.
Well if you've got Type 1 diabetes, you might want to think twice about having a late-night glass of wine or a mixed drink. A recent study finds a small amount of alcohol may increase the risk of low blood sugar the following day.
And you can follow all the latest health news every Saturday and Sunday morning right here on CNN with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our senior medical correspondent. "HOUSE CALL" airs at 8:30 Eastern both mornings. We have your news, money, weather and sports. The time, 5:43 Eastern. Here is what's all new this morning.
Not as many riders today on London's Underground train system after bomb attempts on three trains and a bus. Police say the devices failed to go off and only one person was hurt.
The Washington-Boston Acela Express Train gets back on track this weekend. The high-speed service was halted in April after cracks were found in many of the train's brakes. Now limited service from New York to Washington did resume on July 11.
In money, uh-oh, the share price of Google will open below the $300 mark this morning. That is down a record high of more than $313 bucks a share, still not too bad. Apparently the quarterly profit report for the Web search engine company was not as strong as some Wall Street types had anticipated. But 300 bucks a share, that's still pretty good.
In culture, though, let's get to it, actor Brad Pitt is looking fine. You think? He turned out at an event to accept a check on behalf of a charity. Pitt was released, as you recall, from a hospital last week after a two-night stay for a mild case of viral meningitis.
And in sports, it looks like the National Hockey League is cranking back up. The league's 30 owners are expected to approve a new six-year deal approved by the players yesterday. The deal ends a lockout that canceled last season.
Chad, you've got to be happy about this.
MYERS: You know, not really.
MYERS: Because I don't care anymore.
NGUYEN: You're one of those, huh?
NGUYEN: It made you mad?
MYERS: I totally -- I turned in my season tickets, not going back.
We do have this just in that we want to tell you about right now. British media is reporting that a suspect has been shot by police at the Stockwell Subway Station. We don't know what type of suspect this person is, but according to British media, a suspect has been shot by police at the Stockwell Subway Station. As you recall, yesterday, explosives were found on three of the subway cars and on a double-decker bus. So all of this, we don't know if it's related, but this is what we're learning right now. We'll continue to follow up on it and bring you the latest as it becomes available to us.
Also, still to come here on DAYBREAK, good-bye Neverland. Wait until you hear what the King of Pop wants or where he wants to move.
And our e-mail "Question of the Day," mass transit security: will random bag checks make us safer? Let us know what you think, DAYBREAK@CNN.com.
NGUYEN: Well Texan Lance Armstrong is on track for his record seventh Tour De France title. Today is the 19th stage of the bike race that ends Sunday in Paris. Ivan Basso is second overall, 2:46 behind Armstrong. And Mickael Rasmussen is 3:46 behind.
But Paul Sherwen is the cycling commentator for much of the Outdoor Life Network, and he's been covering this race. And he joins us now from France to talk about this.
First thing, Paul, Lance Armstrong pretty much got this thing wrapped up, doesn't he?
PAUL SHERWEN, OUTDOOR LIFE NETWORK: Yes, there's only one person could beat Lance Armstrong between here and the race getting up to Paris and that's Lady Luck. And fortunately, she's been pretty much on his side since he started winning the tour back in 1999.
NGUYEN: So is it going to take something like a disastrous fall for Armstrong not to take home his seventh title?
SHERWEN: Yes, that's basically the only thing. I mean today is the final really dangerous day for Lance Armstrong. Again, it goes right through the Macise Von Trail (ph). And then tomorrow, I think Armstrong will be the big favorite to win the final time trial. It's a discipline that he's actually only been (INAUDIBLE) once since he started winning the Tour De France back in 1999.
And then hopefully for everybody who's turned up here in France, it should really be a parade of honor for him on the Champs Elysees on Sunday, although it will be a (INAUDIBLE) at about 35 miles an hour.
NGUYEN: But you know what, it's still a competition and there's still people wanting to win this. So are there any opportunities that lie ahead for his nearest competitors?
SHERWEN: Well only really today. Today is a very difficult day right through the Macise Von Trail. Again, it's very hot here in France, around about 35 degrees Celsius. And there are a couple of nasty climbs. But you know Armstrong has never, ever in this year's Tour De France shown any weakness at all. It will try because there is a big battle, you know, for second and third place and even sixth, seventh and eighth. So there are a lot of riders still in this race, like Ivan Basso, like Gandlerick (ph), who will go out and try and form the top 10 in the oval classification (ph). And if Armstrong has a weakness, it could change. But, like I said, you know this man Armstrong has not shown any weakness at all over the last 19 days of racing.
NGUYEN: Yes, he...
SHERWEN: And I think this should really be just a formality.
NGUYEN: He has been so phenomenal. And when we think about him retiring, who's going to take the lead here? Who's going to be the leader of the pack? Who's going to fill his shoes?
SHERWEN: Well, basically I would say the heir apparent would have to be Ivan Basso, the man who is lying in second place overall. He's attacked extremely well over these last few stages through the mountains.
And of course if you want to look to an American lad (ph), let's not forget there are two American riders in the top 10 overall. You've got Levi Leipheimer who rides (INAUDIBLE) and of course Floyd Landis, who both of those riders are in the top 10.
A new name to throw in would be Tom Danielson from Durango, Colorado, who is a member of Lance Armstrong's Discovery Channel team but not actually riding here at the tour. They felt that he was just a little bit too young.
NGUYEN: Well they'd have to do just quite a remarkable feat to do as much for the world of cycling as Lance Armstrong has. We will be watching it.
Paul Sherwen with Outdoor Life Network, thank you for that insight and your time today.
Well, for the first time, morning commuters in New York may under go bag checks before boarding trains and buses. City officials made that announcement following the second set of bombings in London.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg explains this new security measure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: He's going to institute some random searches of bags that people are carrying over the next few days. But I want to emphasize that there is still no threats to this city that have been explicitly made or to our subway or bus system. People should go ahead and feel comfortable in using it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: People carrying bags and packages onto subways and trains will be selected before they pass through the turnstiles. Those who refuse the police request will not be allowed to board at that stop. And officials insist officers will not engage in racial profiling. Four-and-a-half million passengers ride New York City subways on the average weekday. There are 468 subway stations in the system and 27 interconnected subway routes.
All right, time now to read some of our e-mail answers, which is all related to this -- Chad.
MYERS: Yes, it is.
And Brittany (ph) has a good one. She says I believe the random searches are very necessary. I can't believe they've waited so long. If people don't like it, they don't need to ride the subway. I'd be very appreciative of the extra security members.
Chris (ph) from Philadelphia has a different take. Of course random bag checks on mass transit will make us safer. It's not a matter of whether they pick the right random person, it's more important that the terrorists have an extra fear that they may be the one checked.
Zoe (ph) says, in short, no, bag checks will not make me feel safer. I feel it's a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Having security presence visible with bomb-sniffing dogs and the installation of video surveillance would help deter these extremists much better.
And from Lagrand (ph) in Utah, a random bag check would bring some level of security. But in some respects, I think it makes look like we're scared. I mean what do we do next, have metal detectors and make us take off our shoes before we go to the grocery store? I guess everything will have upsides and downsides.
And Jordan (ph) in Queens says I will go to jail before I let them search my bag. If they have probable cause, that's one thing. But we revolted against the British for this type of treatment. I refuse to give up my basic constitutional Fourth Amendment right so stupid people can feel safer.
NGUYEN: Stupid people, huh? Some strong reaction to this e-mail question.
NGUYEN: All right, we'll read some more a little bit later.
MYERS: All right.
NGUYEN: Thank you -- Chad.
MYERS: You're welcome.
NGUYEN: Just ahead on DAYBREAK, we go one-on-one live with former New York City Police Commissioner Howard Safir. What does he think of the random searches that begin today for commuters? And will it truly protect us from something like the London attacks? You want to stick around for that and so much more. You're watching DAYBREAK for this Friday morning.
NGUYEN: Yes, that's that legendary voice. In "Entertainment Headlines" for you this morning, Mariah Carey's "We Belong Together" CD is burning up the charts. Can you imagine? Listen to that great song. And the song has topped the U.S. Pop Singles Chart for four straight weeks now. It's held the top spot on the Billboard Hot 100 for eight nonconsecutive weeks. And it's also led the hot R&B Hip-Hop Songs Chart for nine weeks.
Grammy winning singer Ashanti has hit a sour note with a federal jury. It ruled that she breached a contract with her first producer and will have to pay up to the tune of $630,000.
And Michael Jackson may be about to beat it all the way to Berlin. His father tells a German newspaper the pop star has fallen in love with the city and wants to move there. It was in Berlin, if you remember, three years ago that Jackson dangled his baby from the railing of a four-floor hotel.
And "American Idol" runner-up Clay Aiken gets no vote of confidence from some people who are questioning how his nonprofit group is spending its donations.
Reporter Cullen Browder of CNN affiliate WRAL in Raleigh, North Carolina has the details.
CULLEN BROWDER, WRAL-TV REPORTER (voice-over): Clay Aiken made his name as a singing sensation on "American Idol." He used his name to raise awareness for children with disabilities when he cofounded The Bubel Aiken Foundation.
CLAY AIKEN, SINGER: Do you have any brothers or sisters, anything at all?
BROWDER: The nonprofit puts on specialized camps, like this, and doles out grants to other groups. But when these tax documents surfaced, critics...
NGUYEN: All right, we're going to have to break out of this story for just a moment because we have a developing story in London.
Let's go live now to Jennifer Eccleston with the latest on that.
Jennifer, what do you have?
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, Scotland Yard has just confirmed that an armed man, armed police, rather, have shot a male at the Stockwell Tube Station, which is south of London, a Tube station on the south bank of London, which is just one stop away from the Oval Tube Station, where, yesterday, we had word of those bombings, which was one of four bombings that happened throughout Central London.
What we know right now is that ambulance, an air ambulance has been called to the area. There was also a ground ambulance there and that shots were heard. British media were reporting a short while ago that it was a male that was shot at the station.
And now we have confirmed from Scotland Yard, from London's Metropolitan Police that indeed a male was shot. We don't know whether he has died. We don't know what the exact cause of the shooting was. But British media had reported earlier that he was suspected of being yet another bomber -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, you're saying that this person, this man has been shot. We know very little bit about the situation there, but was it down in the subway system? Was it on the way out of the system? What do you know about the circumstances as of where he was shot?
ECCLESTON: The details are sketchy. We don't have an exact confirmation from the Metropolitan Police Department where the exact location was.
But British media have been reporting that the incident took place in the actual Underground service itself. We can gather from that it did take place in the Tube, not outside in the public, but down in the Tube station. But, unfortunately, that's all we know right now, and that is, again, from British media reports.
The only thing we can confirm is that Scotland Yard did say that a man was shot. We don't know the circumstances surrounding that. And again, I must stress that this is from British media reports that he was suspected as being yet another bomber. And again, this station, Stockwell, it's in south London, it's just one stop away from the Oval Tube Station that was targeted yesterday -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Maybe we can put up a map to have folks better understand exactly where this is in relationship to the -- it's right to the left of the Oval Station that you see there at the bottom, middle portion of your screen.
And, Jennifer, now, when these explosions were found yesterday, of course an investigation is underway.
Is this system back up and running to where folks could get on it this morning?
ECCLESTON: Clearly, the stations that were affected yesterday are closed because they are still scenes of investigation. The police are still there trying to glean any evidence they can. The general tube system is still operating. Of course, a number of lines, especially the lines that were affected from the July 7 bombing, are still closed, and a number of them remain so today, including the additional ones that were affected yesterday, which was the Oval tube station; also, Warren Street and in parts of the tube line that went through Shepherd's Bush, which was also the scene of the other incident yesterday. I am hearing behind me -- I'm at the Oxford Circus tube station in Central London -- and we've been hearing recordings now advising people that the Stockwell tube station has also been closed. Naturally, one would expect that because there was this incident there, there was this shooting, and police will definitely be on the scene trying to gather more evidence and, of course, attending to the man who was shot. Whether or not he actually survived the shooting, we don't know.
But, again, I'll just recap, this took place in the Stockwell tube station south of London, just one stop away from the Oval tube station yesterday, which was affected by the unsuccessful bomb -- Betty.
NGUYEN: And as we learn more, I know information is just coming in, Jennifer, and you just did that recap, but do we know why this man was shot? Was he putting down some kind of a bag? Was he running from an area? What do you know about that?
ECCLESTON: Well, what I could tell you right now, and this is based on British media reports, we cannot independently confirm this, but the initial story was that the man who was on the scene was deemed to be a threat, that he was acting strangely, in an odd behavior. It was reported that he was suspected of carrying another bomb and this is why the police responded in such a way.
Again, we cannot confirm this. This is speculation at the time. But what we can confirm from the London Metropolitan Police is that there was an incident at the Stockwell tube station. He was, in fact -- a man was, in fact, shot. But, again, we do not know the specifics around why this gentleman was hit -- Betty.
NGUYEN: We're going to try to put up a map again just so that people understand, this Stockwell station is very near a station where one of the explosives were found yesterday, the Oval station. There you see the Oval. Obviously, the Stockwell is just to the south of that, you can see on this map right here. So very close by, although we understand the Stockwell station was up and running; although the Oval one was not.
Now, this is obviously -- this one shut down, the Stockwell now shut down. The Oval shut down because of the investigation.
What is this causing for commuters this morning? Obviously there's a lot of anxiety already, but then to hear that a man was shot coming out of one of these stations by police -- we don't know the connection, but it's got to cause some fear.
ECCLESTON: Oh, absolutely. I'm not quite sure that it's spread to the general public as of yet because it is such breaking news, such a new development. But in general, we've heard from quite a few people, quite a few commuters who are coming into Central London here at the Oxford Circus station. But there was a great deal of anxiety on the tube this morning and there was far less traffic than is normal for a busy rush hour this morning and coming into work, Central London, on a Friday morning, getting ready for the weekend. Far less people on the trains. Also, far less people on the buses. I don't know if you can see behind me, but all throughout the day there have just been dozens of buses going by which were virtually empty.
Many people, in fact, choosing to stay home today, perhaps because they were fearful or perhaps they just wanted to have a long weekend. But this is the new London, everybody is telling us, that this is -- they don't know if things will get back to normal and this may be the way they have to live, extra vigilance, always keeping an eye on who's sitting next to you, whether the package or the bag or the rucksack backpack belongs to that person, questioning people and pointing out to the police, as they've asked the general public to do so, if they've seen any suspicious activity.
Now, we don't know the events, the precise events surrounding the Stockwell tube incident. We don't know if the public were involved, whether they spotted a gentleman who was behaving erratically and then the police were called in. But this is the general feeling now across London, for those who have to travel on the tube system and on the buses, that there needs to be greater vigilance.
And the police are now calling on everybody who makes this commute to look out and provide them with any information that they think would be -- would give an indication that there is somebody behaving erratically on the tube or on the bus or, for that matter, any transport system here in the capital city -- Betty.
NGUYEN: And, Jennifer, it's not just London.
Here in the United States, New York is doing random bag checks. So there is -- there's a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety surrounding the London attacks.
But I have to ask you, with that being the case, Jennifer, if we can stay with you for just a moment, how are the checks being done there for folks getting on the tube? Is it like New York, where it's random?
ECCLESTON: It's random. There is a greater police presence now at a number of the tube stations around London, especially here in the center of London, which sees the most traffic. There will be spot checks. It's virtually impossible -- this is a massive, massive underground tube system, a massive transport system with trains, an underground system and with buses. So it is virtually impossible to secure the entire network.
And added to that, one of the tube lines travels out to Heathrow Airport, one of the busiest airports in the world. So you have a lot of people who are heading out to the airport with large luggage, with bags, with multiple bags. They take the tube. They leave their bags, when they enter the tube, on the side. So it is virtually impossible, without causing massive chaos, to check each and every bag.
So police now generally looking for telltale signs, spotting out people, making random checks. But it is a huge, huge challenge for the London police to actually monitor this huge facility -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, Jennifer Eccleston, we're going to let you go for a moment so that you can gather some information on this shooting that just took place.
Let me just recap briefly, for those of you just joining us this morning.
An armed police officer shot a man outside the Stockwell tube station in London this morning. It is one stop away from where explosives were found yesterday on another one of the subway cars there. Of course, three bombs were found yesterday on subways and one in a double-decker bus. Of course, we're continuing to follow all of this and we'll bring you the latest as soon as we get that information.
But back here in the U.S., speaking of subway systems, New York is dealing with some random searches for any passenger wanting to board the subway system there.
Let's get an update from CNN's Allan Chernoff, who is at a station at 72nd and Broadway.
How are the random checks going so far today, Allan?
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, it's still very early in the morning here in New York, a little bit before the rush hour, as you can see behind me. And, in fact, at this station, we simply don't have police present just yet.
But they are doing those random checks at various stations around New York City. They started last night. And this is something that New Yorkers really are going to have to adjust to, because, as you know, this is a city always in a rush. New Yorkers simply hate to wait.
But right now if the police come over, they're going to randomly check those bags. You're going to have to open up your bag. And they say they're going to be focusing mainly on larger bags, backpacks, for example, something that potentially could carry a bomb. They say they will probably not be checking pocketbooks. So, the ladies, perhaps, have a little less to be concerned about.
It's a real adjustment, as I said. And some New Yorkers are simply very upset about this, particularly the New York Civil Liberties Union, arguing that this is unconstitutional.
Remember, the Fourth Amendment protects Americans from unreasonable search and seizure. Now, what's unreasonable in this post-9/11 era, when we've had the bombings in London, in Madrid? Obviously people have to change their perspective on that. But nonetheless, some New Yorkers are resistant to this -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Allan, let me ask you this. You've got these random checks and, of course, many people understand the reasoning behind that. But at the same time, is there a fear of racial profiling when it comes to these random checks?
CHERNOFF: The police are saying they absolutely will not use racial profiling. They say it's going to be random, every 10 passengers or so, or some number to be used. Obviously, they'll also be looking at the size of a package that somebody is carrying. If that package is especially large, if it looks suspicious, they're clearly going to focus on that person.
So, the police right now saying they will not do any racial profiling. And clearly that would be the most sensitive issue in regards to this entire bag checking.
NGUYEN: All right, Allan in New York.
Thank you for that update.
We want to take you back to the story that we were just talking about, a man being shot outside one of the subway stations in London this morning.
We're going to dip in now to some media coverage, British media coverage, by ITN.
Let's take a listen to what they know.
SIR ALISTAIR BURNETT: , ITN NEWS ANCHOR: In the center of London, Vauxhall tube station, which is on the banks of the Thames, MI6 security intelligence headquarters; very, very close, as you can see on that map now, to Waterloo station, the southwest train's huge terminus in South London and also the Eurostar terminus, as well.
What happened, it seems, is that right there, where that picture is being highlighted, between those three locations is where whatever was happening this morning came to a dramatic end. It was there that a man, who is described by an eyewitness as being male and Asian, leapt onto the train with a backpack, a rucksack, call it what you will. He was being pursued by three plainclothes police officers, according to reports that are running on the Press Association. And they are quoting an eyewitness.
He was wrestled to the ground. He was shot five times and there are unconfirmed reports that he is now dead.
Now, we're also getting unconfirmed reports, completely away from the transport dimension of this story, that armed police are surrounding a mosque in East London. Now, we treat that with great caution, but it's coming to us, again, from sources, unconfirmed, I want to stress that. I have done all this morning, although Stockwell clearly has moved the temp up very significantly.
But we are receiving reports that armed police have now surrounded a mosque. It says they're in London. I believe it to be East London, I think is what I was being told just a moment ago. It is -- I'm just getting that confirmation now in my ear, as well.
Now, let us pause for breath. Still with me in the studio is Will Geddes, our security -- one of our security experts. I'm also delighted to have been joined now by another old friend of this program, Professor Michael Clark, a professor of defense studies at King's College, London.
I'm going to interrupt either of you when the need arises.
But let's come to you with some fresh thoughts, Michael.
You've had a chance to listen to what I've been able to report there and what you've heard colleagues reporting, as well.
This looks significant and polished.
MICHAEL CLARK, PROFESSOR DEFENSE STUDIES, KING'S COLLEGE: Yes.
Yesterday was some sort of bungled attack, but it was serious. And it's created the gold dust for terrorists, which is momentum, a sense that this is one of -- I mean for terrorists, one bomb is never enough. You have to create a sense that this is part of a campaign.
And whether what's happening today has been preplanned or whether it's just the momentum created that people then go out and try to do things, people who feel that they may have had a half-baked scheme in the pipeline, let's go and do it, that's what they've got.
And even if they haven't got that, they've got the sense of fear and anxiety, that there will be lots of false alarms. We know that. The IRA used to, you know, explode one genuine bomb in London every six or eight months and there were lots of false alarms in between.
In this case, I have to say, it does look ominous because whether these are imitative amateurs or part of an unfolding plot, the effect is more or less the same, that there are lots of genuine security problems. And here is somebody who apparently -- it may have been mistaken identity, but at least one person now is dead this morning, as far as we -- it is reported.
And this will obviously heighten the sense of anxiety. It begs lots of questions about our intelligence led policing, which, by and large, has worked pretty well until now; about the role of MI5 in relation to the police, because all of these people seem to be emerging from, as they say, under the radar. That's really quite worrying. And, of course, it begs questions about the safety of big cities.
I mean, London is a city of nine million people. Every day three million people come in and three million people leave again. There's no way you can screen all of that. You simply can't. You have to live with a certain level of risk. And these attacks, these events actually just increase that level of risk four or five fold for all of us.
Let me just remind people who may have just joined us a little before a quarter past 11, an hour ago, an episode began at Kennington tube station. Three tube stations on the northern line -- Kennington, Stockwell and then Vauxhall, there were police alerts. We reported initially that there was confirmation coming through that they had shut down those stations.
We then got reports coming through that there had been a shooting episode at Stockwell tube station. As you can see there at the bottom of your screen, witnesses telling us that police chased a man before opening fire. We now know for a fact that that man was shot five times. We believe that he was shot by plainclothes police officers.
Witness Mark Whitby has been saying that the train was standing at the railway station with its doors open when an Asian man ran on, pursued by three plainclothes officers. He tripped. He was pushed to the floor. One of the officers shot him five times.
Mr. Whitby says that the Asian man is now dead.
Now, as we get further reports, clearly, we will bring those to you immediately. Two underground lines have been closed. There is still an ongoing alert at Vauxhall underground station, which is the one closest to the center of London. The Kennington episode, which is right down there at the bottom left-hand side of your screen, has now passed. Stockwell is in the middle. Vauxhall is up at the top.
A man has been shot by armed police at that station that's now being highlighted, which is the intersection of the northern line and the Victoria line. Both of those are now closed down.
Will, let me bring you in again.
As I say, it is -- it's now moved on an hour. We were talking a little earlier, and then I'll come back to Mike in a moment, about, as it were, the strategic side of it. But you've got a few more snippets of information now.
Purely a tactical operational appraisal of what you think we've been looking at over the last hour?
WILL GEDDES, SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I think, again, until we actually determine the content of the rucksack, we're not going to know for certain exactly what has gone on. If I was to make a speculative assessment of what happened in a tactical sense, I would say that there was probably a surveillance team, supported by a response team, from SO13. The surveillance team could have either been, again, from anti-terrorism branch or it could have been branched or certainly associated to the security services. They could have perhaps been following a suspect from the beginning of today, or perhaps from yesterday, and then ultimately the response team was in support to be called in as of when.
When they engage in these types of operations, one has to be very, very, very concerned as to when you're going to do the interception, certainly if there is the potential for collateral damage with innocent civilians around.
BURNETT: I'm sorry.
I'm just putting my hand coming in across your picture, for which I apologize. But I was drawing attention to the pictures there.
It's interesting, is it not, that the pictures that we're getting up from Southwest London -- let me just remind you and everybody at home that, of course, these are live pictures. These are -- ah, these are pictures from earlier on. Fine. In which case I apologize for interrupting.
But police have stopped pictures coming out. That's, in itself, an interesting point. They've wanted us to shut down the use of CC-TV for the time being.
GEDDES: Yes, and they will want to start, obviously, monitoring it. There is always a probability that there could have been more than one person there.
GEDDES: That the individual did have some support unit, either an individual or others who were with them. Again, they're going to be wanting to review that material.
BURNETT: All right, let's go back down to Stockwell now and rejoin Sally Roberts, who also has a witness with her -- Sally.
SALLY ROBERTS, ITN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alistair.
I'm right near Stockwell station, about 50 meters away from the station itself. Police have cordoned it right off, those tube areas. But there's still some people around that were actually on the tube. I'm with one of them right now. His name is Chiang Chumin (ph). He was actually on the tube when it happened.
I'll just put him on to speak to you -- Alistair.
BURNETT: Thank you for joining us.
Just tell us exactly what you saw unfold whilst you were on that tube.
CHIANG CHUMIN: Yes, we were just boarding the train. But then we heard shootings. And then everybody was screaming and running out. So then we joined the stream and we ran out. And later we -- I met a witness who saw the shooting that, right happening right in front of him.
And he said he was sitting on the train, reading his newspaper. He said his -- he heard, he saw three plainclothes cops hotly pursuing an Asian looking man. Then entered the -- then that man came into the -- his car, his coach, the train, and fell to the ground. And then these three cops pushed him to the ground and shot him in the head, three gunshots. BURNETT: And how close were you to this? You were in the next carriage or further down in the carriage?
CHUMIN: We were further down in the carriage.
Could you hear the shots?
CHUMIN: Yes, but we heard the shots were (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BURNETT: How many shots did you hear?
CHUMIN: Oh, we heard quite some shots, you know, absolutely more than three. But that man said, you know, the police killed the man by three shots. Yes, he said boom, boom, boom, three shots right in front of me. That's what he told me.
BURNETT: Sure. And did the person that you were talking to who actually witnessed the episode, did he say to you that the man either fell to the ground or wrestled to the ground? Was he on the ground when he was shot? Did you get that information from your colleague?
CHUMIN: No, I've gathered the information from the witness.
CHUMIN: Yes, from the witness.
BURNETT: But did the witness say that the man was on the floor or was he still moving? Was he running when he was shot?
CHUMIN: No, he said -- I remember he said that man tumbled. Yes. And the police (UNINTELLIGIBLE) man, the plainclothes cops pushed him to the ground.
BURNETT: All right, well, thank you very much, indeed, for that information.
Would you be kind enough to put Sally back onto the telephone now?
CHUMIN: Yes, OK. Yes, yes.
BURNETT: Thank you.
BURNETT: Thanks for talking to us.
Are you there, Sally?
ROBERTS: Yes. Yes, Alistair, I'm here.
BURNETT: Well, Sally, brilliant.
Thank you very much, indeed for that absolutely extraordinary report of an eyewitness account there.
Tell us what's actually happening in and around the tube station area right now, Sally.
ROBERTS: OK. Well, I'm about 100 meters away from the tube station. I can see two ambulances and three police vans. There seem to be a lot of police milling around the entrance to the station. Then there's a cordon line with a couple more police carrying that. They're not allowing anyone past there.
But where I'm standing, there are quite a few people, locals that have come out of their houses, milling around, trying to find out what's going on.
There's an increasing media presence, as well. There was one photographer trying to take some photos of the tube station. He was asked to stop by the police. So it definitely seems that they're monitoring things particularly down here.
But overall, the atmosphere is quite calm. The overhead helicopters seem to have disappeared. But I'm sure we'll get some more information when we can.
BURNETT: All right, Sally, as soon as you do, you get right back to us and any other witnesses that you can gather up, as well, we'd be very happy to talk with them, as well.
ROBERTS: Yes, of course.
BURNETT: For the time being, thanks very much indeed.
Now, there is another story developing at the same time. I mentioned it about 10, 15 minutes ago to you. And that was that armed police were reported to be surrounding a mosque in East London.
Joining us on the line now is Mr. Sapal (ph). I don't know your first name, Mr. Sapal, for which I apologize.
But what are you seeing? What can you tell us of what is going on around this mosque in East London?
MR. SAPAL: Yes, well, basically they totally cordoned it off. There's no traffic or no sort of people out on the pavement itself, on either side of the mosque. It's totally cut off. There is a police presence. Obviously, there are police cars and so on. And people are obviously curious, not knowing what's exactly -- why has it happened.
And, in fact, we are not totally sure what's happened. But apparently it's something around the mosque.
BURNETT: And you're on the White Chapel Road, is that right?
MR. SAPAL: We are. We are actually in that cordoned off area. We are sort of within our premises at the moment. I've actually had a look outside and there are police vans, cars and so on. But generally it's sort of, you know, totally silent. There's nobody walking on the road.
BURNETT: And, Mr. Sapal, I know the White Chapel Road extremely well. There's an interesting mixture of -- there's lots of houses and flats there, but an awful lot of small businesses, shops and what have you.
MR. SAPAL: Absolutely. Absolutely.
BURNETT: Give us a sense of the scale of the political presence, Mr. Sapal, if you'd be so kind.
MR. SAPAL: I would say, in fact, as I'm speaking to you, I'm kind of looking outside. On toward Valance Road, there are about three or four officers, and obviously a number of vehicles. And similarly along the way, there's all policemen here or there.
Now, there's a, again, it seems to be more concentrated toward the mosque, but I wouldn't say there are hundreds and hundreds of police officers. There are certainly a few dozen.
BURNETT: All right, Mr. Sapal, we're grateful for that.
Thank you very much, indeed.
And do -- give us a call back again if that story develops.
MR. SAPAL: Absolutely.
BURNETT: We'd be grateful to hear from you again.
So that's Mr. Sapal...
NGUYEN: All right, you have been listening to ITV, British media, there.
Several developments out of London today.
As we just heard, armed police have surrounded a mosque in East London. We're trying to get some more information on that.
But right now we want to go back to that shooting outside a subway station in London, the Stockwell station.
And our investigative producer, Henry Schuster, is there and joins us by phone with the latest on what he knows -- Henry, what have you determined so far?
HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
The police have cordoned off this area. It would have been after 10:00 a.m., according to the Metropolitan Police. They do say that an unidentified male was shot by police. They're not giving out any more details than that. They're not relating it to yesterday's events or the events of two weeks ago.
However, I can tell you here they've got the area cordoned off. There are ambulances here. There are a number of members of the Metropolitan Police. They've pushed everybody back at least 200 yards away. We can see down to the Stockwell tube station.
I did talk to a couple of people just as they walked up and they said that they spoke with one young woman who was on the carriage who talked of seeing shots fired. Not much more detail than that. Apparently the woman was very distraught by what she saw.
Obviously, in London, unlike in most American cities, there -- the police are not armed, except for special armed response units. So the sight of seeing, you know, for anybody to witness something like that would be quite unusual.
Anyway, the area is heavily cordoned off. Right now it's mostly media and we're pushed far back.
It's quite calm here above ground. We don't know what's going on below ground. We have not seen the ambulance come away yet, so we don't know whether the -- what's happening to the person who was shot, whether anybody else was wounded or not.
NGUYEN: Henry, we've been listening to British media and they've provided some information. And I don't know if you know this just yet or if you verified it. But let's go through what we have learned so far this morning through British media.
We have learned that the man in question, this suspect who was shot, was of Asian descent and that he ran onto a train. But it's not known if he had a bag or not. There is some question as to whether this may have been a suicide bomber, because he had some heavy clothing on him.
Have you learned anything about that?
SCHUSTER: No. I have not been able to do that because the police at the scene are not talking. We're trying to get more from Scotland Yard.
What we do know is that there have been reports since the initial attacks on July 7th that there would be armed response units moving around London. Obviously, after yesterday's events, that would have been ratcheted up even more. One of the things that yesterday showed was that they had a better idea of what to look for.
So, if, indeed, it was somebody wearing heavy clothing, then that would obviously raise suspicions. Now, of course, again, it could be entirely unrelated. But when I got here, I got here by walking down past the Oval tube station, which was, of course, the site of one of yesterday's would-be attacks. And, you know, it's eerie almost, because there are very few people outside there anymore. There's no media anymore. You know, we -- it's just a mile down now, down at the Stockwell station (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
NGUYEN: Henry, and most stations are very close to each other. We're looking at a map of it right now. You are seeing...
SCHUSTER: They're about a mile away.
NGUYEN: OK, not that far away from the Oval station, in which the explosive was found yesterday.
Henry, we want you to stand by for just a moment.
We'll be coming back to you.
But we want to go now to CNN's Jennifer Eccleston, who is outside the Stockwell station surrounded by people, getting a feel of what people are saying, what they saw -- Jennifer, what do you know?
ECCLESTON: Well, actually, Betty, I'm outside of the Oxford Circus tube station, where we've been all morning monitoring the morning commute.
And what we had just a few moments ago was the reopening of the Oxford Circus tube station. Once I -- after I spoke to you earlier, giving you an update on the Stockwell tube station, we had the immediate closure of the Oxford Circus tube station, one of the biggest in London and one of the most expansive with a number of tube lines that run through this particular station.
The gates were closed. There was an emergency recording that was played, telling people to evacuate the station. Like I said, the gates were closed. People came streaming out and then they just waited around. There was a slight bit of anxiety. Nobody was giving us any information as to why this particular tube station was closed, although it is probably likely because one of the lines that has been closed, the Victoria line, runs through oxford station, Oxford Circus station. And that is probably why this particular station was closed.
We don't believe there was any specific incident here, but it was probably just a precautionary move to clear people out of the underground.
But as I said, right now, after a slight bit of chaos and a little bit of worry, people are now able to get back on the Oxford Circus tube station and go about their business -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, Jennifer, that is the Oxford Circus station there.
But let's talk a little bit about the Stockwell station. That's the breaking news this morning, where a man was shot. We don't know for sure, it hasn't been confirmed whether he is dead or alive, but this suspect was shot by British police this morning. We're hearing a number of varied reports.
Since we spoke with you last, what have you learned about this particular shooting?
ECCLESTON: Well, I think we're pretty much all on the same page about the information that's coming out of that particular tube line. That is on the Northern line, which is one of the north-south lines that runs through Central London. Stockwell is South London, just south of the Thames River. It is just one stop away from the Oval station. As we've been reporting, that was the site of one of the incidents yesterday, the attempted bombings on that line.
We understand that there are now numerous stops on the Northern line that have been taken out of service, that people are no longer allowed to travel on that line.
Now, the Stockwell tube, I'll just recap the incident you were talking about. Approximately 10:00 a.m. local time, we have reports now that armed British police shot an unidentified man. We understand that that happened in the tube station.
And what you heard earlier from eyewitness reports on our sister station ITN, that people on the tube heard a number of shots. Three to five shots were fired. And we understand from eyewitness accounts -- and, of course, this is on British media. We cannot independently confirm this. But a number of eyewitnesses have said that, indeed, that man, after he was shot, had died.
But, of course, London Metropolitan Police not confirming that. All they can confirm right now is that an unidentified male was shot at the Stockwell tube station. Again, that is on the Northern line in South London and just one stop away from the Oval tube station, which was the scene of yesterday's attempted bombings -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, Jennifer. Thank you so much for that.
I do want to remind our viewers who are just joining in on this Friday morning that there are a number of stories that we're following right now, these breaking developments.
One is the fact that armed police have surrounded a mosque in east London. We know very little bit -- very little about that. We're trying to gather information on that and bring you the latest.
But the other is what Jennifer was just talking about, this shooting that took place outside a London subway station. Or perhaps it may have even taken place inside. In fact, we are learning from witnesses that it took place inside one of the subway carriages at the Stockwell station.
It happened about 5:00 a.m. Eastern time, where police shot a man -- we are learning that his man may be of Asian descent -- inside the subway on a carriage there. We've spoken with some witnesses, or are learning information from witnesses.
Let's take a listen to what they are telling British media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for joining us. Just tell us exactly what you saw unfold whilst you were on that Tube.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we were just boarding the train, but then we heard shootings. And then so everybody was screaming, and they're running out.
So then we (INAUDIBLE) and we ran out. So later, I met a witness who saw the shooting happening right in front of him. And he said he was sitting on the train, reading a newspaper, (INAUDIBLE) heard and he saw three (INAUDIBLE) cops hotly pursuing an Asian-looking man.
Then that man came into his car, the train, and fell to the ground. And then the three cops pushed him to the ground and shot him in the head, three gunshots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how close were you to this? You were in the next carriage or further down the carriage?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were further down carriage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you hear the shots?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard the shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many shots did you hear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, we heard quite some shots, you know, absolutely more than three. But that man said, you know, the police are (INAUDIBLE) three shots. Yes, he said, (INAUDIBLE) three shots rapidly in front of me. That's what he told me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did the person that you were talking to who actually witnessed the episode, did he say to you that the man either fell to the ground or wrestled to the ground? Was he on the ground when he was shot? Did you get that information from your colleague?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I got information from the witness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. But did the witness say that the man was on the floor or was he still moving? Was he running when he was shot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he said -- he said that man tumble, yes. And the police (INAUDIBLE) pushed the man to the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Well, thank you very much, indeed, for that information. Would you be kind enough to put Sally back onto the phone...
NGUYEN: OK. That is what we are hearing from witnesses, according to British media. Now, we're also getting some wire reports from British media, as well.
And the witnesses tell these reporters -- and I'll quote -- it said it looked like the man was wearing padded clothing, not sure if he was carrying anything.
But here's the exact quote from a witness, talking to British media, saying, "They pushed him onto the floor and unloaded five shots into him. He is dead." Now, we have not confirmed those details just yet, but that is was we are learning from British media. Let's get a little bit closer to the scene now and go to CNN's investigative producer Henry Schuster. He is at that Stockwell station where all of this occurred.
Henry, what have you learned so far?
HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER: Betty, they've allowed us to move a little bit closer to the Tube station now. We're about less than 50 yards away. We can see police mulling around outside.
There's an emergency services ambulance, and there's several police vans here. Whatever action is taking place now, whether it's in terms of treating or treating any witnesses, it's all taking place below ground.
There has not been any police activity moving ambulances in or away in quite some time now, which leads us to believe that, whatever -- you know, there are reports that whoever they shot may be dead. They don't seem to be in any hurry, at least from what we can see above ground, to move anybody out to the hospital.
NGUYEN: So that may support those reports?
SCHUSTER: Yes. It's hard to say right now. Like I said, you know, above ground, there doesn't seem to be a sense of any urgency from the police. But, of course, as we can tell, whatever's taking place will be taking place near the platform to the Tube station.
NGUYEN: Henry, are witnesses standing around? Are they waiting to see what happens here? And have you been able to speak with any of them?
SCHUSTER: Most of the people that we've talked to were above ground when this happened. They were in the neighborhood. They talked to people below ground.
The witnesses who were in the carriage, we have not been able to reach any of those in the last several minutes. I think they've all been either taken away for questions by police or they've left the area. But we're working it right now.
NGUYEN: Of course, the Stockwell line is probably down because of this. We know the Oval line and several of the lines that were affected yesterday were down. But overall, the rest of the lines, are they up and running, or is everything really -- security beefed up on everything out there?
SCHUSTER: Well, from our vantage point, it's hard to tell. But there have certainly been at least intermittent closures. And I would suspect that periodically through the day. As you get more reports, possibly you get more scared of incidents, then they'll shut down more of the Tube.
NGUYEN: Henry, let me ask you this. This does not deal with the Stockwell situation at the station there. But we did learn from ITN, British media, that armed police have surrounded a mosque in east London. Do you know anything about that?
SCHUSTER: No, I don't. I do know that there is a mosque in east London. In fact, there's a story about it in today's "Christian Science Monitor," which has been a hotbed of radicalism.
Whether those guys are tied in directly or indirectly to anything that's happened, we just simply don't know. But that mosque is described in that article today. And it's a place where some of the more extremists -- where some of the more extremist elements meet.
And back to the situation there at the Stockwell station. Have you been able to speak with anyone around about just the heightened fear now? The second bombing, or the attempted bombing yesterday, and now you have this shooting today.
Don't know if this man who was shot by British police was suspected of being a suicide bomber, or having a bomb, bringing one on board. Are you sensing a heightened sense of fear there?
SCHUSTER: Well, right now, people are just trying to make sense of it at the moment. I mean, I think they're just trying to make sense of what's happened around here.
You know, last night, amazingly, the atmosphere on the street was that this was almost shrugged off. As you walked, even within two or three blocks of Warren Street, where one of the incidents took place yesterday, as night fell, we were walking past a number of pubs and restaurants. And there were thronged with people.
If this was -- I don't know whether this was a show of defiance, or a show of nonchalance, or because of the fact that nobody was injured in yesterday's attack that people were simply shrugging it off.
There was no sense of palpable fear last night, at least not on the streets in London. Now, whether today's shooting changes that, it'll take us a little while to get a sense of the people's mood.
NGUYEN: All right, Henry. We're going to ask you to stand by momentarily.
We're going to go now to CNN Jennifer Eccleston, who's going to bring us up-to-date on what she has learned so far -- Jennifer?
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, that's right, Betty. I'm standing outside of the Oxford Circuit Tube station, one of the major thoroughfares, and one of the biggest and one of the most expansive and busiest Tube stations in central London.
And as I've been reporting all morning, there's been a great deal of anxiety amongst commuters, amongst those who live and work in London, about the safety of traveling now on the rail network, not only just on the Tube, but on the overland trains, and also, indeed, on London buses, because they, too, have experienced terrorist attacks, as well.
But it's not just London residents who are living with this anxiety. As you know, this is one of the biggest tourists destinations in the world. It is also a very multicultural, multinational community, with many people across the world coming to live here.
And I'm just going to talk to one person who has come from Australia who just moved here on Sunday.
And it must be a great shock to come into this type of situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes, it is, a bit. It's a lot different than the last time I was here. But I guess, apart from yesterday, we've just been living life the way we would normally. Yesterday afternoon was, obviously, a distraction that we weren't expecting.
But today, we're back on the Tube. And that's the way we're going to get around. And we'll just keep on living life.
ECCLESTON: And you know, as myself, from an outsider's point of view, what do you make of how people are reacting, and this general sense, and the British are lauded for their sense of resolve and just going about their business?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, well, I -- that's all I've seen. I haven't seen anyone behaving very differently to how they would normally. But I don't have a lot to compare that with. I've only been here for a week.
But, yes, so far all week everyone seems to just be getting on with things and they're doing a good job.
ECCLESTON: Now, we've now learned that there was another incident at the Stockwell Tube station, which is on the northern line, just in south London. Police have shot an unidentified man. That just adds to...
ECCLESTON: That was today. It adds to the general sense of anxiety. Do you have any fears about actually traveling in transportation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to admit that on the Tube, just this morning, basically, the trip was a normal trip, but every now and then, I'd sort of think, you know, "What would I do now if a bomb was to go off?" or that sort of thing. So it is in my mind. And, yes.
ECCLESTON: I'm talking to a lot of people who have been traveling today, both tourist and Londoners, who say, "Perhaps if I'm not scared, it's my family members, and my spouses." And that must be going through your mind right now. What must your parents be thinking of, if you're here during this very, very dangerous time? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. And I'm traveling with my wife at the moment, you know? And part of my concern is for her safety, as well, obviously. And we'd just make we'd keep in touch with family at home and let them know everything's all right.
ECCLESTON: Thank you very much.
Well, there you have it. A little bit of perspective from someone who is a new resident to the United Kingdom, to London, really giving off a sense that, even those who don't live here, a little bit of nervousness, a little bit of trepidation about whether or not they should travel on the transport here, but also giving much credit to the British public for having a sense of resolve and getting on with their daily lives -- Betty?
NGUYEN: They are determined. And I guess you just have to. Jennifer, thank you for that.
We want to talk now about what all of this is doing to safety concerns here in the U.S. Let's go live now to CNN's Kimberly Osias, who's in Washington, D.C., at a subway system there.
Kimberly, are you seeing some beefed-up security, some heightened security?
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. As you can well imagine, Betty, certainly nerves are a little bit high after the most recent incident this morning.
I am outside Union Station here in the nation's capital. They will not allow us inside to shoot any video or to be present, for obvious security reasons.
Now, last evening, the Metro Transit Authority took the unique step of actually shutting things down for maintenance, for contract maintenance work, and they actually did a full security sweep with bomb-sniffing dogs and police looking throughout the cars and through the other areas, as well.
Now, this hasn't been done in quite some time. For the past two weeks, they have been on high alert, level orange. That is just underneath the red level, very, very high, indeed. There are some 700,000 passengers that travel on these metro systems each and every day, second in volume only to New York City.
And when you look about how many employees they have, there are about 10,000 employees, although they have ratcheted that up. They are working in concert with federal and local police. They say that it's still incredibly important for everybody, every citizen, to be extra vigilant and be an extra set of eyes right now.
NGUYEN: All right, Kimberly Osias in D.C. Thank you for that update on safety and security there.
We want to go now to ITV, which is a British media company, to learn what they are hearing from witnesses at that Stockwell station where the shooting took place this morning between British police and a man who was shot in a London subway station. Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) off the train. I didn't sort of sit around watching (INAUDIBLE) onto the platform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to cut in there, as I promised I would, if there was any clarification required. At the news conference is perhaps a slightly elaborate description of what you've just witnessed.
I think that I heard them say that that was Mark Whitby, who is one of the eyewitnesses that I was quoting from on the press association newswires a little earlier.
And if you can shut your eyes and imagine, there is Mr. Whitby surrounded by a lot of very eager journalists with their telephones and tape recorders, trying to persuade him to give his evidence, as it were, of what happened. And how intriguing that evidence was.
Mr. Whitby said that the Asian male leapt onto the train looking utterly horrified, but he also -- and bear in mind, he is just one eyewitness, but that is what he is -- the man had no rucksack, but there were police in hot pursuit.
He said it all happened in a split second. He ran off, he tripped. He was bundled to the floor, and then he was shot. Mr. Whitby reports that there were three plain-clothes policemen in pursuit of the man, and that then more and more police uniformed piled onto the station.
The man is now dead, and that has been confirmed by Scotland Yard. An eyewitness account there by Mark Whitby. More on it as it develops. We're going to take a short break. It's just a little after a quarter to twelve...
NGUYEN: All right. You've been listening to ITV, British media, detailing exactly what happened this morning about 5:00 a.m. Eastern time at the Stockwell subway station, where a man was shot and, according to British media, has now been determined to be dead.
Let's get the latest from a terrorism expert. Sajjan Gohel is with the Asia-Pacific Foundation.
You've been listening to what has been developing out of London. We talk about terrorism. We talk about being vigilant and spotting a possible terror suspects.
This man, from what we have learned so far, according to British media, did not have a backpack with him, although he may have been covered in heavy clothing. What does that tell you, as a terrorism expert?
SAJJAN GOHEL, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, it's certainly very worrying. We do know that the authorities in the U.K. don't always carry guns with them. The fact that they had one with them to day is probably the group of SO19. That's part of the metropolitan police that are specifically trained for counterterrorism incidents.
Now, the individual went on Stockwell station -- that's very close to Oval station -- that had a bomb attacked yesterday. And of course, this individual didn't necessarily need a rucksack. He could have easily had a belt attached to him with explosives, another form of suicide bomb attack. It's very unclear.
And of course, we only got one eyewitness testimony so far. But it is very worrying. It is very disturbing that these individuals are still out there, and possibly even planning new attacks.
The rules of the game have changed. We're now entering uncharted territory, where there's no set pattern in the type of attacks that have been planned. And this is, of course, a major challenge for the security forces.
NGUYEN: I think you're very right in saying the rules of the games have changed, because, as we're learning information from this incident, there is some talk that the man may be of Asian descent.
Does that surprise, South Asian descent? I guess not. I mean, we're learning -- well, if he were South Asian, perhaps not. But if he was East Asian, Southeast Asian, maybe.
GOHEL: Well, it's not so surprisingly that he's of probably South Asian descent. But I think that also needs to be qualified a bit further, because ultimately...
GOHEL: ... the individuals that were part of the July 7th attack were -- three of them were Pakistani origin and obviously Muslims. And this is probably very similar to that. It'd be very unlikely that someone, say, Indian or Chinese would be behind this, because, ultimately, we are looking at an Al Qaeda-type attack, people of Islamic origin or religion, and chances are that this is a similarity to that.
But the problem is that, when you say Asian, it becomes so generalized that the whole...
NGUYEN: You're thinking, perhaps, Southeast Asian when you just hear the word "Asian." But if that is, indeed, the case, which we haven't confirmed just yet, but if this person is of Southeast Asia, whether Chinese, Japanese, Korean, whatnot, does that show that the rules of the game have changed, and more and more people are coming onboard with this?
GOHEL: Well, we do now that Al Qaeda and its affiliates around the world are trying to recruit people who have converted to Islam. There have been a number of cases.
Look at the Virginia jihad cell of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, that was a Korean convert in Europe. Christian Darsansky (ph) was a German individual, blonde hair, blue eyes. He was part of the Debra Synagogue Block (ph), plus Al Qaeda attack-op to September the 11th.
So there are individuals that are being picked up. Of course, we can profile people. They may have looking out for Middle Eastern or Asian descent, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
We have to remember that they are looking for people that are willing to join their cause, and even converts, particularly people of Afro-Caribbean origin, like Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. There are all kinds of possibilities.
NGUYEN: And as we dissect all the events that have happened today in relation to this shooting today, would you see more and more people trying to take different methods? Because we have seen bags been placed on these carriages, and that, of course, being determined to be bombs.
But now, since that's what people are on the lookout for, are people having to get crafty, creative?
GOHEL: Well, that's the whole purpose of transnational terrorism, is that they constantly set new precedents, that they will constantly raise the stakes, they will plan new types of attacks using new tools in their armor for acts of terrorism.
There is no pattern that often repeats itself, whether you have individuals that wish to hijack a school in Beslan or blow up a nightclub in Bali, or in Casablanca, or attack a transportation system in Madrid or London, or even hijack planes and round them into buildings in New York and Washington.
These are different tactics, very disturbing elements. And as we're seeing, the terrorists are constantly changing their style, their nature, because the security forces are finding it very difficult to play a game of catch-up.
The terrorists set the agenda. That is very dangerous. It is, of course, very frightening. London itself has never experienced this, not even during the height of the Irish Republican Army's major attacks in the '80s and early-'90s.
This is very different. These people have an intention to kill. They embrace death, as much as you or I cherish life. And of course, we don't know if there are more cells out there.
NGUYEN: Right. Sajjan, let me ask you this one last question, though. Are you surprised that, not only were these explosives found yesterday, but we're seeing this man being shot outside a subway system today, that they're using the same methods on the same subway system?
GOHEL: It is very unusual. Because, ultimately, when you see follow-up attacks, they do like to go for different locations to confuse the authorities, because they know that the security forces would be monitoring the same transportation system.
The fact that they did it exactly two weeks after the July 7th attacks, again, is also surprising. But it shouldn't be totally surprising, because we know that they like to change their ideas. They don't follow a set pattern.
And, as I said in the beginning, the rules of the game have changed. We don't know how to predict their movies. They're now totally independent of what they decide, and that is what's so frightening, is that it could happen at the same time. It could be a totally different city, different form of attack. We're just playing a guessing game.
NGUYEN: Sajjan Gohel, Asia Pacific Foundation, a terrorism expert with them. We appreciate your insight and your time today. Thank you.
GOHEL: Thank you.
NGUYEN: Let's learn a little bit more on how to project against attacks. We are joined now by Howard Safir, a former New York police commissioner.
My first question to you is, as we just learned, the rules of the game are so different now. How do you go about protecting, especially when these methods of attack are unpredictable?
HOWARD SAFIR, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it's very difficult. And the fact is that mass transit is probably the biggest challenge for security forces around the world, and especially here in the United States.
When you think about the fact that 4 million people use the New York subway everyday, you have to have a layered and a tiered method of security. For instance, the random checking of backpacks and packages now in the New York subway is not operationally effective, but it raises the bar a little more for terrorists, so that there's one more hurdle that they have to go over.
NGUYEN: But random searches, we've gotten a lot of e-mail on this today. Viewers are talking about whether it's making them feel safer. And one pointed out, I though, was a very interesting point. It's like searching for a needle in a haystack. You're lucky if you come across the right person at the right time.
SAFIR: But that's not the issue. The issue is that terrorists want to succeed. And the more that you harden targets, and the more that you make it more difficult, with more layers of security, both random checking, technology, vigilance, training, then terrorists will probably pick other targets.
NGUYEN: Do you think it's going to make people feel safer, or is it going to raise the anxiety and the fear seeing these officers going through people's bags?
SAFIR: Well, the reality is we live in a very dangerous world. And anybody who thinks that what happened in London cannot happen in New York, or Los Angeles, or Atlanta is really deluding themselves. And so we have to take every possible method possible to make sure that people are safe. I think the use of random searches is a good thing, and we need to make sure that we use everything else, intelligent video, ballistic material.
We have to make sure that the public understands that, when they see something, they say it, not to be embarrassed, that it's better to be embarrassed than to have body counts.
NGUYEN: But does this also open the door for racial profiling and discrimination?
SAFIR: I think that whole racial profiling issue has been blown out of proportion. Security forces and law enforcement are not looking for racial profiling, they're looking for criminal profiling.
NGUYEN: Howard Safir, I'm going to have to interrupt you shortly. I'm sorry for this. But we want to go now to British television, who has a witness on the shooting there.
Let's take a listen.
MARK WHITBY, WITNESS: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, five shots.
QUESTION: What was going through your mind at that time?
WHITBY: It was quite surreal, really. I was thinking that I've hung around longer than I should, because (INAUDIBLE) but there was a sort of an elderly woman, sort of large-built. She was having a -- she couldn't move very fast. So I tried to usher her along, help her along go up the escalator.
As I was getting on the escalator, there must have been 15, 20 police coming down, all of them armed, submachine guns, pistols.
QUESTION: Was there any warning as to all of this?
WHITBY: Until I heard, "Get down, get out," it was enough.
QUESTION: And what's your name?
WHITBY: Mark Whitby.
QUESTION: What were you doing on the train...
QUESTION: Mark, was there any warning at all, or (INAUDIBLE)
WHITBY: Just happened like that. Literally, it was done in a few seconds.
QUESTION: What was the general feeling on the train? Was it panic, screaming?
WHITBY: You have absolute horror. People were sort of running, but in a sort of cowering and covering their heads, as the shots were going off. You could smell the (INAUDIBLE) as well.
QUESTION: And did you make your way up and (INAUDIBLE)
QUESTION: Did he look suspicious?
WHITBY: He wasn't carrying anything. I put him in his mid- to late-20s, quite sort of chubby built, with a baseball cap on. But he did have sort of quite a thick, padded jacket, which I thought was unusual for this sort of weather.
QUESTION: Did he have a rucksack with him?
WHITBY: Didn't see any rucksacks, at all.
WHITBY: No. He looked horrified, though. I caught the sight of his face for a split second. He looked absolutely horrified. And then he was on the floor and dead.
It was the northbound, yes. I was going opposite to London Bridge.
QUESTION: Do you work out there?
WHITBY: A split-second, literally. From the time I saw him run, until (INAUDIBLE) until the time he was sort of bundled to the floor and shot, it was less -- probably about a second.
QUESTION: And what was the atmosphere like on the train?
WHITBY: Just complete utter panic, horror. I wasn't that crowded, actually. It wasn't -- you know, once (INAUDIBLE) everyone had a seat, basically. But people were just getting up, and they were trying to run sort of in a coward way, with hands over their heads, just running as fast as they could.
QUESTION: What made you stay there? Why didn't you run out? What made you stay in the carriage?
WHITBY: I just don't know. I don't know. I saw the gun. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, people were panicking, and everybody was running, you know. I panicked, I have to say. And it was terrifying, because, you know, thinking about the bombings yesterday, you know, you don't know what's going to happen next. (INAUDIBLE) everybody was running, you just follow the stream, and you start running.
QUESTION: This witness you spoke to, he was on the train, was he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he was on the train. He was on the train reading his newspaper. Yes.
QUESTION: And did the three storm the train, or did the man start running out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were policemen, you know, standing at the (INAUDIBLE) sort of telling people where to go, "OK, this way." And I think they brought things under control fairly quickly.
QUESTION: How did you feel? What were you thinking? What was going through your head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't know. Just get to a safe place as soon as possible.
NGUYEN: So there you're hearing it from witnesses who saw what happened today when British police shot a man in a subway system. We're learning a lot more about that.
We've been speaking with Howard Safir, former New York police commissioner, about safety on the subways and how to keep the public safe with terrorism on the rise, it appears.
We want to thank you for your time today. Unfortunately, we are out of time. But your insight was very helpful to us.
But we are learning so many developments today. Just a recap, very briefly, one man was shot today in London on a subway station, the Stockwell station. We are learning through different sources, including British media, that that man is dead. More developments to come.
We have also learned that armed police have surrounded a mosque in east London. We still know very little about this, but on both situations, we have reporters on the scenes. We're making the phone calls. We're going to bring that to you as soon as we get it.
In the meantime, though, we want to toss it over to "AMERICAN MORNING," as they take up this rolling coverage.
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