Skip to main content
U.S. Edition


Return to Transcripts main page


President Rudy?; War in Iraq; Jeffrey Dahmer: One More Victim?; Freezing to Death; Tycoon Castaway

Aired February 5, 2007 - 23:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: He is a Republican with almost universal name recognition. Also unlike many others, if he runs he would be a candidate with baggage.
CNN's Candy Crowley investigates.


CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani has submitted a statement of his presidential candidacy to the Federal Election Commission, which sounds like more than it is.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: And today we just took another step toward, toward running for president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this a giant step?

GIULIANI: It's a big step. I don't know about giant step.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rudy for president.

CROWLEY: Well, it's a big -- make that, the giant question about Giuliani is not is he running. It's can he win. Can he even get to first base past the Republican primary?

The in your face, take no prisoners, 9/11 mayor of New York runs first in nationwide polls of Republicans.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R), MISSISSIPPI: The American people view him as a strong leader. But some of his positions on issues that obviously are going to come out, social issues, are going to be a problem for him, with a critical base within the Republican primary.

CROWLEY: The problems are as follows -- the twice divorced Giuliani is for gun licensing, abortion rights and gay unions, which in the Republican Party means you talk about something else.

GIULIANI: My record is a record of cutting taxes, reducing the size of government, significantly reducing crime, turning around welfare from welfare to work by hundreds of thousands of people. Essentially, what I think people would describe as a conservative, governing record.

CROWLEY: The problem is the base of the Republican Party is social conservatives. They are among the right of center Republicans most likely to vote in the primaries. They are against abortion, gay civil unions and gun control.

So no way, no how?

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR AT LARGE, HUMAN EVENTS: No. I do not believe that Rudy Giuliani can get the Republican nomination.

And if by some outside shot he actually gets it, which I don't believe would happen, he is the kind of Republican candidate who would, in fact, ignite a third party run by someone who I think could take away a significant chunk of the Republican Party base.

CROWLEY (on camera): Conservative critics think once Republicans learn of Giuliani's stand on the issues, his poll popularity will drop.

Camp Giuliani thinks once Republicans got their heads handed to them in last year's elections, it opened the way for a new kind of Republican presidential candidate, which certainly he would be.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.


COOPER: Well, he certainly would be that. Helping to size up a Giuliani candidacy and what it might face within the GOP and beyond, Joe Klein, "TIME" magazine columnist and author of "Politics Lost." Also Amy Holmes, political analyst and former speech writer for now retired Republican Senator Bill Frist.

We spoke earlier.


COOPER: So, Joe, can Giuliani shift the conversation away from issues that conservatives may disagree with him on to issues that they would support him on, tax cuts, smaller government, security issues?

JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE COLUMNIST: Well, I think the big issue is security. And as long as that remains front and center, this is a guy who has a great deal of credibility as a tough leader.

The more -- I think that the more threatened people feel as this primary process goes forward, the stronger the candidate Giuliani will be. Because what he brings to the table isn't his position on taxes and isn't his position on all those other issues. It's his leadership in New York on September 11th. People remember that. And those of us who are New Yorkers also remember that he was a pretty good mayor.

COOPER: Amy, what about that? Political Consultant Dick Morris wrote this today about Giuliani's chances in "The New York Post." He said, "Conversations with conservative activists also show a remarkable openness to supporting Giuliani -- a belief that he can overcome (perhaps finesse) his pro-choice, pro-gun-control, pro-gay- rights and pro-immigration positions."

Do you think he can overcome those positions? AMY HOLMES, FORMER FRIST SPEECHWRITER: I do. And I think that one of the advantages that he has going in over, say, McCain, is that Giuliani has the right enemies.

Let's remember back when he was mayor of New York. The groups lining up to oppose his conservative approach to fighting crime, cutting taxes and welfare reform were Al Sharpton, the ACLU. If those old enemies come back on the scene, I think Giuliani gets to sort of refurbish his identity as a conservative mayor.

COOPER: That's interesting.

Another, Joe, potential hurdle, I guess, for him is his personal life. And "Newsweek" wrote this. They said, "In the eyes of some Republicans, Giuliani is banking too heavily on his 9/11 performance to shield him from intense personal scrutiny. This could prove a fatal error."

I mean, is he vulnerable there?

KLEIN: Of course he's vulnerable. I mean, you know, the thing about presidential campaigns is that they last a heck of a long time.

COOPER: And everything gets out.

KLEIN: And everything gets out. And everything is chewed over 16 times. And there are going to be periods where Iraq and the security issue aren't front burner issues and there are going to be down times when his opponents are looking for issues. And he's going to have to defend his record on those things.

I mean, there are a whole slew of -- I mean, this is a guy in favor of rent control in New York, which is, you know, a kind of government control of the rental market, which is just anathema to Republicans. Someone's going to bring that up sooner or later.

But, as I said, if we really feel threatened by the terrorists, if there's God forbid another terrorist attack here, if things really go farther south in Iraq, which is a strong possibility, you know, those are his strengths.

COOPER: He has, Amy, tied himself very closely to the president on Iraq, supporting the president's new strategy.

HOLMES: Yes, he has. And he has said that he is in favor of the surge. And back in November in the elections, you know, he was a real workhorse for the Republican Party.

But I think that that will be rewarded. I think that his loyalty among party members will be seen as an advantage, as a good thing.

But at the end of the day, the surge is the commander in chief's military idea, not Rudolph Giuliani's. And let's remember, he's not in the Senate, so he doesn't need to be casting votes on any of these resolutions and he can keep a few steps back. And as for his personal life, I think that we've learned over the past, goodness, 12 years, the administration prior to the Bush administration, that those are issues that can be overcome. And in politics, you always have to ask the question, compared to what, compared to whom. And if his match-up is Hillary Clinton, I think the personal issues will, at least by her campaign, be try to keep that off the table.

KLEIN: Well, yeah, but there are two key factors here. One -- that we haven't mentioned. One is the stronger that the Democrats are looking in this race -- if it looks like they're going to have a bang- up candidate, the more Republicans will overlook differences in philosophy.

The other problem, though, that Giuliani faces is that the Republicans really are a kind of royalist party that believes in the next person in line getting the nomination.

And John McCain has made a very strong case and he's built up support within the party as the next person in line, just as George W. Bush was.


COOPER: We're going to have to -- go ahead, Amy.


HOLMES: He spent a lot of money in November, but there is still a lot of uneasiness among Republicans about Senator McCain.

COOPER: Joe Klein, Amy Holmes, thanks.

HOLMES: Thank you.

KLEIN: Thank you.


COOPER: A long anticipated showdown over Iraq between the White House and the Senate was supposed to happen today. Instead, a Senate resolution criticizing President Bush's troop buildup never made it to final vote.

The measure, which was co-sponsored by Democrat Carl Levin and Republican John Warner, was one of four competing draft resolutions that was up for consideration. Democrats and Republicans could not agree on what to do about any of them.

And with that, as the opening act, lawmakers are also gearing up to deal with the president's new war budget.

CNN's Tom Foreman, now crunches the numbers. We're talking about big numbers, too. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Grab your wallet. The president's new budget for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan calls for $142 billion tax dollars next year, not to mention $93 billion more this year. The tab so far is already over $350 billion, based on government records compiled and computed by a progressive think tank, the National Priorities Project.

Ken Pollock is with the Bookings Institution.

KEN POLLOCK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: On the other hand, one of the other great tragedies of Iraq is that the administration has mismanaged this war so badly, that it has wound up costing the taxpayer far more than it might have had things been handled otherwise.

FOREMAN: How much money has been spent on Iraq? The Priorities Project estimates it's enough to hire more than 6 million teachers, enough to build more than 700 new elementary schools in each state, 8 million police officers could be hired or 6 million cargo inspectors for ports or, we figure, every American driver could get free gasoline for a year.

In the complex world of government budgets, the total estimate can be fairly questioned, but it's a lot more than the White House once suggested.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today I'm sending the Congress a wartime supplemental appropriations request of $74.7 billion to fund needs directly arising from the Iraqi conflict and our global war against terror.

FOREMAN: Government investigators say billions have been lost to fraud, mismanagement or bad bookkeeping. And the spending won't end when the fighting does. American troops and equipment have held up well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I can see the cost of the war going up another 50 percent or maybe even doubling because of what we have to do to replace personnel, ammunition and equipment over a long period of time.

FOREMAN: It may seem crass to talk about the bill for the war while young Americans are still fighting. Their lives, of course, are priceless for their families, their friends, for all of us, really.

(Voice-over): But Washington is well aware that taxpayers are watching and that the president's request for next year will effectively cost every man, woman and child $473.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.


COOPER: There are far bigger items in the president's proposed budget than the $142 billion earmarked for Iraq and Afghanistan next year. Here's the raw data on that. The nearly $3 trillion budget includes about $700 billion for the Health and Human Services Department, $656 billion for the Social Security Administration. The Defense Department's basic budget request is $481 billion.

Paying for the war is one thing. Of course, supporting an enemy is another. You won't believe who was elected in Baghdad.

Sentenced to death and making the laws in Iraq. How did a terrorist who targeted America become a protected member of parliament?

One of the most famous child abductions. One of the most infamous serial killers. Tonight, the explosive new evidence.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a man, holding a little boy by one arm up in the air and the boy was struggling. And the little boy was saying, I don't want to go.


COOPER: That may link Jeffrey Dahmer to the murder of Adam Walsh. The new details next, on 360.


COOPER: At least 11 acts of mayhem today in Baghdad; 35 Iraqis killed, 25 of them dumped throughout the capital. Their bodies found. Sectarian shootouts, mortar attacks, several car bombings and a political assassination.

Yet, even with headlines like that each and every day, our next report stands out. It concerns one of those unintended side effects of democracy.

In this case, Iraqi voters electing a convicted killer, a man with American blood on his hands, elected to parliament. It is a CNN exclusive.

Michael Ware broke the story. We spoke earlier tonight.


MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After an extensive four-month investigation, CNN has learned that this man, Jamal Jafar Mohammed, an elected member of Iraq's parliament representing southern Babel Province was involved in the 1983 car bombings of the American and French embassies.

Indeed, according to U.S. military intelligence, he was one of the masterminds of the attack. According to court reports from the "TIME," he was sentenced to death in absentia. He escaped punishment, having fled the country. But according to Western intelligence, he was also involved in the hijacking of a Kuwaiti airliner in a bid to free others involved in the embassy bombings and is linked to the attempted assassination of a Kuwaiti prince.

His presence in the Iraqi parliament is now a source of rising tension between Baghdad and Washington. One reason, in parliament, he is immune from prosecution.

COOPER: Michael, this is obviously a potentially embarrassing situation for both the Iraqi and American governments. What have been their reactions so far?

WARE: Well, a U.S. embassy spokesman says American officials are actively pursuing Jamal Jafar Mohammed's case with their Iraqi counterparts.

U.S. military intelligence on the ground here in Iraq has approached the Iraqi government, claiming Jamal is actively supporting Shia insurgents now. And that he is a key agent for Iran's elite revolutionary guard corps, Quds Force, one of Tehran's special forces element, and assists their operations as a conduit for weapons and political influence.

Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki wants American intelligence now to share its information with Iraq's parliament, which could lift Jamal Jafar Mohammed's immunity from prosecution.

COOPER: And if he is...

WARE: Sitting in the Iraqi parliament right now is a man accused and convicted in Kuwait of blowing up an American embassy.

U.S. intelligence claims he still has ongoing links to Iranian intelligence and covert networks. What does this say to the world?

NOURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We don't want parliament to be a shelter for outlaws or wanted people. This is the government's view. But the parliament is responsible. I don't think parliament will accept having people like him or others.

COOPER: So if his immunity from prosecution is lifted, can then the United States or Iraq go to parliament and arrest him?

WARE: Well, that will be very difficult, even if that happens, Anderson. I mean, his current whereabouts are unknown. Indeed, senior Iraqis in the intelligence and security apparatus that we spoke to about this man fell silent at the mere mention of his name.

Now, for months, we attempted to contact him through parliament, through the prime minister's office, through his former political party, through the ruling Shia political alliance, of which he is currently a member, and through the paramilitary organization which he headed until shortly before the war.

But all of these attempts proved futile. There are rumors that he is already back in Iran -- Anderson.

COOPER: So, do you think the people who voted for him realized who he seems to be?

WARE: Well, certainly when the United States sponsored the December 15, 2005 elections and Iraqis voted for him for the -- and for the first time for a full and sovereign government, it's unlikely that many of those people knew precisely who he was, other than a political figure put up by this Iraqi Shia political alliance.

However, his true identity and background was no secret to many within this Shia political alliance. Indeed, he's the former commander of the Iranian-backed Badr organization, one of the foremost paramilitary outfits in this country.

Now, Prime Minister al-Maliki told me that this is an embarrassing problem, not only to his government, but to an American administration holding up the Iraqi parliament as a democratic model for the entire region.


Well, that was Michael Ware reporting from Baghdad. Embarrassing indeed.

Back here in the U.S., cold for decades, a child murder case may suddenly be heating up. We're talking about the search for who murdered this little boy, Adam Walsh. The search may be turning to serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer. All the angles, when 360 continues.


COOPER: It was one of the most infamous child murder cases. In 1981, Adam Walsh, son of "America's Most Wanted" John Walsh was abducted and murdered. He was just six years old. For more than a quarter of a century the case has gone unsolved. But tonight there are new reports that may link the crime to a notorious serial killer.

Patrick Fraser, from our Miami affiliate, WSVN, reports.


PATRICK FRASER, WSVN REPORTER (voice-over): In July 1981, a little boy was kidnapped from the Hollywood Mall. As South Florida searched for him, his family begged for him.


JOHN WALSH, FATHER OF ADAM WALSH: He's our only child. He's a beautiful little boy. And -- and we just want him back, more than anything.


FRASER: But John Walsh never got Adam back. Six weeks later, Adam's head was found in a canal near the Florida Turnpike. His body was never found.

Two years later, a miserable drifter named Ottis Toole twice confessed to killing Adam, and twice bragged, he made it up.


OTTIS TOOLE, MURDER SUSPECT: That Adam Walsh case isn't -- it ain't true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What isn't true?


TOOLE: I didn't -- I didn't do that case.


FRASER: Toole was never charged in Adam's murder. And, for 26 years, the search has gone on for answers.

ARTHUR JAY HARRIS, TRUE CRIME AUTHOR: I just spent a lot of time going through and seeing -- looking for mistakes, looking for clues.

FRASER: Crime reporter Art Harris has spent several years digging into the Adam Walsh case, and now has come to a conclusion.

Your conclusion? Who killed Adam Walsh?

HARRIS: I believe Adam Walsh's killer is Jeffrey Dahmer.

FRASER: Jeffrey Dahmer, one of the most infamous serial killers in American history, who admitted to murdering, beheading, and eating many of his 17 victims.

(On camera): But all Dahmer's victims were in Ohio or Wisconsin -- or were they?

You see, in 1981, Jeffrey Dahmer was living right here on Miami Beach, off 174th Street, 20 minutes from the mall where Adam was kidnapped. In fact, Dahmer may have been at the mall at the exact moment Adam was grabbed.

What have you done that proves Jeffrey Dahmer could have been the killer?

HARRIS: It starts with the two witnesses at the Hollywood Mall.

WILLIS MORGAN, EYEWITNESS: He looked at me. And, when I didn't answer him, he got this crazed look on his face.

FRASER (voice-over): One of those witnesses who says he saw Dahmer is Willis Morgan. He has never spoken on camera before about the person who confronted him as he stood in the Hollywood Mall the day Adam was kidnapped.

MORGAN: And then he came into the Radio Shack. And he came right up to me, about arm's length. I could have reached out and touched him. And he repeated, really loud, like he was standing 15 feet away, or even more, hi there. Nice day, isn't it?

FRASER: When Willis ignored the man, he walked away. Willis was suspicious, and followed him.

MORGAN: I followed him right to the toy department. I saw him walking into the toy department.

FRASER: The toy department at Sears was where Adam's mother had left him to play. Willis went to the Hollywood police to report his encounter, but they never interviewed him. And Willis didn't realize who he had seen for 10 years, until he saw a newspaper story about a serial killer being captured.

MORGAN: I was freaking out. I could hardly function. I -- I couldn't work the rest of the night.

FRASER: The face from that paper was Jeffrey Dahmer, the guy who confronted Willis, the guy he followed into the toy department.

MORGAN: Because I knew this was the guy.

FRASER (on camera): That's the guy you saw at the mall?

MORGAN: Oh, yes, absolutely.

BILL BOWEN, EYEWITNESS: That day, around noon, a little after...

FRASER (voice-over): Bill Bowen was walking into Sears about the same time Willis saw Dahmer go in there. Bowen, who has also never spoken on camera, saw a man and a little boy struggling.

BOWEN: The little boy was saying, I don't want to go. I'm not going. And he proceeded to take the little boy and literally throw him by one arm into a blue van. And then he sped off.

FRASER: Bill assumed it was a man and his younger brother. But, like Willis, he reported what he saw that day to Hollywood police. However, nothing came of it until 10 years later, when, like Willis, he saw a man's face in the newspaper.

BOWEN: That Sunday, in 1991, when the picture of Dahmer came out, it hit me like a baseball bat.

FRASER: Two witnesses who believe they saw Jeffrey Dahmer at the mall the day Adam was kidnapped.

And there's another link to Dahmer. The kidnapper left in a blue van. Dahmer worked at a sub shop, where they made deliveries. Harris' research revealed a startling fact about one of the delivery vans.

HARRIS: I learned that there's -- that one of the delivery vehicles where Jeffrey Dahmer worked was a blue van. FRASER: When Bill and Willis saw Dahmer's picture in 1991, they contacted Hollywood police. A detective went to Wisconsin and interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer, who denied killing Adam Walsh. Detectives believed him them and now.

CAPTAIN MARK SMITH, HOLLYWOOD, FLORIDA, POLICE: I'm convinced he didn't do it. I...

FRASER: Captain Mark Smith has reviewed every document in the Adam Walsh investigation, and is not swayed by the two witnesses who told us they saw Dahmer that day.

SMITH: There are people that saw -- say they saw Jeffrey Dahmer. There's more people that say they saw Ottis Toole.

FRASER: But former FBI agent Neil Purtell, who interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer about the Adam Walsh case, has a different conclusion.

NEIL PURTELL, FORMER FBI AGENT: I said, Jeffrey, tell me the truth.

He -- he looked away and said, honest to God, Neil, I didn't do Adam.

FRASER: Purtell said his years of experience told him Dahmer was lying about murdering Adam Walsh.

PURTELL: In interviewing him, I believe he's more than a possible suspect. He -- he -- he's much higher than that -- probably responsible, in my mind.

FRASER: John Walsh, Adam's father, thinks Ottis Toole is probably his son's killer. But he adds, he now wants the investigators to go talk to the two witnesses who think they saw Dahmer at the mall that day.

WALSH: I think the ball is back in Michael Satz's court, the Broward County prosecutor's court, to thoroughly look at this case. Even though it's a cold case, people have come forward who are claiming one thing, who are saying, we weren't taken seriously back 25, 26 years ago.

So, I think that they have to look at this case.

FRASER: Who murdered Adam Walsh? The sickening Ottis Toole? The cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, or someone else who's still out there?

SMITH: I don't have a good answer for you.

FRASER (on camera): Will this case ever be solved?

SMITH: I would like to think so.

FRASER (voice-over): Of course, there are two witnesses will never forget what they saw the day Adam disappeared. BOWEN: What looked like a very angry young man, holding a boy up in the air, violently, and throwing him into that van, and -- and speeding off.

MORGAN: I'm more than convinced. Oh, Jeffrey Dahmer, definitely.

FRASER: But, even if Willis is right, it's too late for a conviction. Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison.

HARRIS: It can be resolved, and it can be solved, too. But there won't ever be a trial, because he's dead.

FRASER: Twenty-six years ago, a wonderful little boy disappeared. Twenty-six years later, all we keep discovering are more questions. Did Dahmer do it?


COOPER: Certainly a lot of questions. Former FBI Agent Neil Purtell and Forensic Psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz both interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer.

They joined me earlier, along with True Crime Author Arthur J. Harris.


COOPER: Art, what to you is the most compelling evidence that Jeffrey Dahmer might have played a role in Adam Walsh's killing?

HARRIS: Well, the first thing is that he was here, that you have a man who, in Milwaukee, in 1991, was found with 11 severed heads in his apartment. And we have Adam with a severed head. That's all we ever found.

In 1978, three years before Adam was murdered, Dahmer, on his own admission, had killed a -- a man and severed his head. So, 15 minutes from the place where Adam was taken, you have to start -- you know, that's -- that's number one.

But, then, there's a whole -- there's a whole litany of evidence that's -- that has been collected that makes sense, that -- that says that this should be officially looked at.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, there's some compelling evidence there. It's circumstantial.

Is there doubt, in your mind, that Jeffrey Dahmer might have killed Adam Walsh?


COOPER: What gives you the greatest doubt?

DIETZ: Well, I think my skepticism -- and it's just that, skepticism, pending receipt of the evidence -- comes from Jeffrey Dahmer's preferences.

First of all, there was no time, to my knowledge, that he was attracted to a prepubescent child. He was interested in teenagers. He was interested in young adults.

Second, the thing about human physique that most attracted him sexually was muscular development, particularly well-developed biceps. So, it's as difficult for me to imagine him being attracted to Adam Walsh as it would be for me to see Ted Bundy attracted to JonBenet Ramsey. It doesn't fit.

COOPER: But his own father that said he -- he started out -- or that he was a pedophile, convicted child molester. I think, at one time, he -- he even went to prison for fondling a prepubescent child, a 13-year-old Laotian boy.

I mean, is there -- is there an evolution in these kind of crimes?

DIETZ: Well, I think there are some errors in your premise.

First of all, he -- he was never diagnosed as a pedophile. And having 12-year-old and 13-year-old victims does not make him a pedophile, because that's the age of puberty.

COOPER: So would he be a phebophile? Is that what it's called?

DIETZ: Yes, if you want to use the term. But his attraction was consistently to adolescents. That is, teenagers and young adult males, never to children under 12.

COOPER: Neil, you interviewed Dahmer, and I know during that conversation, you asked him about Adam Walsh. He told you, honest to God, I didn't do it. Did you believe him?

PURTELL: No. I was -- I wanted to. But I couldn't.


PURTELL: He just didn't seem sincere. First of all, he overemphasized. You know, honest to God.

And I told, Jeffrey, let's leave God out of this conversation. And he didn't want to talk about it anymore.

COOPER: Art, the state attorney in Broward County, Florida, said, and I quote, "The only thing that can be drawn from the circumstantial evidence pointing to Dahmer's possible involvement in the Adam Walsh murder are hunches and suspicions; but there's no concrete evidence that proves Dahmer committed the crime."

Do you think authorities in Florida ever really took Dahmer seriously as a suspect in the Walsh murder?

HARRIS: Not as seriously as they should have. They said at one point that, well, we're going to check it out. We're not going to let the serial killer be the word of your last judgment. And that's exactly what they did. When Dahmer said that he didn't do it, they didn't check out what the lies that -- of where Jeffrey had said he'd been in Miami.

I went and I talked to the people who knew him, and Dahmer's story fell apart at that point.

COOPER: Neil, what do you make of all of this? I mean, there seems to be this circumstantial evidence, two guys placing Dahmer at the mall that Adam Walsh was taken the day he disappeared. He had -- apparently had access to the blue van, as Art Harris has found out.

Does it pass the smell test to you? I mean, do you think there should be more investigation going on?

PURTELL: I think any time witnesses come forward, no matter what the circumstances, law enforcement has to follow the leads, has to resolve it. It's our obligation.


COOPER: Well, coming up, inside the mind of the serial killer. We'll see what the man who actually sat down with Jeffrey Dahmer have to say about any possible connection to Adam Walsh. That's next.

Plus this. Defending his legacy.


PETER HALMOS, OWNER OF LEGACY: When you say you're going to do something at the count of 10, you don't get to 11.


COOPER: A tycoon's battle against man, nature and the government. Keep one of the world's most expensive yachts from going under.


COOPER: Jeffrey Dahmer says he didn't kill Adam Walsh. Others are not so sure. We're taking a close look tonight at the possible connection between the serial killer and the unsolved child murder.

Forensic Psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz examined Dahmer and believes he had nothing to do with the Walsh abduction. But former FBI Agent Neil Purtell, who interrogated Dahmer; and Author Arthur Jay Harris say the new evidence is certainly worth looking into. Here's more of our conversation.


COOPER: Dr. Dietz, just so I'm clear, your -- your reluctance on this really is based on the 18 hours that you spent with him and an understanding of what his -- I don't know if it's a pathology -- I mean, I don't know what the correct clinical term to describe him, but basically on what he liked. A 6-year-old boy was not that?

DIETZ: Well, yes. The source of skepticism that I add to the equation, besides the length of time that's passed and the unreliance of eyewitness identification is that I think I do have some important information about Jeffrey Dahmer's sexual preferences and perversions, and they would not encompass Adam Walsh.

COOPER: You actually even had to watch movies, pornographic films with him so that he could describe to you what it was in particular that he found attractive, correct?

DIETZ: Yes, I handed him the remote so he could stop it and show me what he liked. He liked big shoulders, big biceps, slim hips, a slim waist.

COOPER: Bottom line, not children.

DIETZ: Right.

HARRIS: Can I go back to what Dr. Dietz had said regarding the preference?


HARRIS: Willis Morgan was clearly the target at Hollywood Mall. Willis Morgan did have that build. And there's a photograph of Willis in the early '80s that shows that he was -- Willis hates this -- but he was sort of like the Chippendale's dancer sort of thing.

Willis -- when Jeffrey Dahmer, the man we believe is Jeffrey Dahmer, was upset because Willis had turned him down, then Willis followed him through the mall, into Sears, into the toy department at Sears, which is where Mrs. Walsh had said she last left Adam just for a few minutes. And then it's very possible that Adam Walsh was just the child -- the person who was easily taken and wasn't his first preference.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, is that possible? I mean, does somebody, you know, failing the person they want, just kind of lash out or grab a target of opportunity to use...

DIETZ: Look, target switching can happen, but it would still have to be within the general range of preference to be of any interest. And let me remind you that Dahmer never did abduct any of his victims. That would be a completely different M.O. for him.

COOPER: He experimented, though, over time with different ways of getting his victims. Isn't that correct?

DIETZ: Yes, but it was generally seduction, bringing them back to his home for sex, for money, or drugging them.

COOPER: The point being he wanted people to stay with him?

DIETZ: Yes. COOPER: Neil, this case -- the Adam Walsh case, it's been so long unsolved. It's been a cold case. Do you think justice will ever be done?

PURTELL: Well, I think it will be done as long as law enforcement continues to pursue leads. That's our obligation. We -- if new information came on any case, even one we closed, I think it has to be examined against the facts that we now know at that particular time.

If we learn something new about a case where we've convicted somebody, we have an obligation to go back and re-examine it. It's -- it should never close, especially in an unsolved case.

COOPER: Neil, what was he like? I mean, in your time with him?

PURTELL: He was polite. Obviously, he was lonely, because he was on a segregation unit. He was not in general population at that point with other inmates. So he was -- he was adjusting to life in a prison.

COOPER: Dr. Deitz, you've interviewed a lot of people, I imagine, like him. How did you find him?

DIETZ: Actually, I found him one of the more forthcoming and likable serial killers I've ever dealt with. He did not have the usual arrogance. I didn't find him angry and hostile. He didn't really, as far as I could tell, try to charm me.

Yet he seemed to truly want to understand why he had done this, how he had become this kind of person. I saw my time with him as a kind joint exploration to understand the path he had taken and how he'd got there, and I sort of liked the guy.

COOPER: Fascinating.

Dr. Deitz, Art Harris and Neil Purtell. It's a fascinating discussion, guys. Thank you very much.

PURTELL: Thank you.

HARRIS: Thank you.


COOPER: Well, we'll continue to follow the story.

Now, to the severe weather. Arctic air driving temperatures well below zero in some places. We'll get a live report from one of the coldest spots next.

Plus, the tycoon castaway. One man's fight to save a multimillion dollar yacht, when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Firefighters today in Newark, New Jersey, bone chilling temperatures have shut down schools, closed roads, stopped trains in their tracks from the northern plains to upstate New York. At least four deaths are being blamed on the Arctic weather. It was 42 below in Embarrass, Minnesota. Negative 27 in Hayward, Wisconsin. Four below in Toledo, Ohio. And a relatively balmy 8 degrees in Trenton, New Jersey.

Mitch Weber from our affiliate WKOW in Madison, Wisconsin, joins us live.

Mitch, I hate to ask you this, but how cold is it there right now?

MITCH WEBER, WKOW REPORTER: You know, it's really cold. That's actually an understatement no matter how cold I told you it was because it is actually freezing. No matter how many layers you have on -- I have four layers on right now and it is cold. My face is going numb. Even breathing in the air, it just, it gives you chills.

On our thermometer behind us, it shows you about 10 below, but with the wind chill, it's 18 below.

Today is the coldest day that we've had in about a decade. With wind chills, it was negative 32 below.

The schools closed in the district. And, also, the Madison school district announced today that they were putting into play a new cold weather policy. Whenever the National Weather Service issues a chill advisory, that is when they are going to close schools.

It's been about 13 years since the schools have closed in Madison due to cold weather. And at that time, it was 70 below. So very, very cold in these parts.

COOPER: Mitch, I don't know -- I don't want to ask how you got this assignment, but I have a feeling the next time we call up and ask you to be on, you're going to be like, no way, are you crazy?

WEBER: Yes. Actually, let me show you something. It's a little experiment that we've been showing our viewers today.

When you have boiling water and it's this cold outside, watch what happens to the water when we throw it in the air. The water just vaporizes. And even some of the water droplets, even before they hit the ground, turn into ice. That is how cold it is outside.

Some of the fire calls that came in over the weekend, if it came in as a fire call, the dispatch would actually call out one of the bus systems in the Madison area to send over to that call, just in case they did have to evacuate a building, because it is too cold outside for people to be standing outside.

COOPER: Wow, unbelievable. And great demonstration.

Mitch, appreciate that. Thanks. I hope you get inside soon. Mitch Weber reporting for us tonight.

WEBER: Thank you.

COOPER: Now to another extreme weather story. We were there Friday night and now the National Weather Service says three tornadoes are responsible for killing at least 20 people in central Florida.

The storms also wrecked an estimated 1,500 homes and buildings. As people living in the towns hit by the tornadoes are slowly starting to put their lives back together.

Scientists are studying the storms, hoping to prevent future tragedies.

CNN Meteorologist Rob Marciano reports.


ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): The debris fields that litter a tornado's path may look chaotic. But to the trained eye, each piece tells the true story of the storm.

(On camera): Are we in the center of the vortex now?

JIM LEDUE, NOAA METEOROLOGIST: Literally in the center of the vortex at this point.

MARCIANO: Jim Ledue works in weather forensics, surveying damage to determine what happened and how.

LEDUE: I see confluence coming in, and debris coming into the northeast on the south side of the track, coming in from the northwest to the southeast here on the north side of the track. And so...

MARCIANO: Wedging in.

LEDUE: That little confluence -- there's about 28 different damage indicators that we look at.

MARCIANO: And what do those indicators tell you about this twister?

LEDUE: This one here, it was basically at least an EF-3.

MARCIANO (voice-over): A strong one with winds over 160 miles an hour.

(On camera): It's not so much the wind that's dangerous. It's the debris flying through that wind.

Look how this two-by-four was literally launched like a missile, impaling the side of this home. Now, on the other side of this wall, a woman was asleep as the tornado literally went overhead.

But there's researchers at Texas Tech that can actually replicate this event in their lab. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two, one...

MARCIANO: And the front side here completely almost surgical impact.


MARCIANO: But the back side just completely demolished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then even if you had brick veneer instead of the siding, the missile would behave exactly the same. It would go straight through.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Investigators like Ledue put the data to the test, analyzing the integrity of all sorts of structures.

LEDUE: This has a weak link right here. Notice the nails are sticking straight up out of there. That says to me that this was straight nailed from the bottom in a prefab.

MARCIANO (on camera): Nailing studs diagonally is better. Using L-braces would be best.

How much more money does it cost to put those straps on, to put those braces on?

LEDUE: It would probably cost on the order of maybe $150.

MARCIANO: That's it?


MARCIANO (voice-over): And when the ultimate cost could be your life, it's a small price to pay.

Rob Marciano, CNN, Deland, Florida.


COOPER: Terrible devastation.

From the final frontiers to behind bars, a NASA astronaut lands in some big trouble for a shocking crime.

And that's not the only strange story out of Florida tonight. We'll also have this.

Defending his legacy.


PETER HALMOS, OWNER OF LEGACY: When you say you're going to do something at the count of 10, you don't get to 11.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: A tycoon's battle against man, nature and the government. To keep one of the world's most expensive yachts from going under.


COOPER: Well, there's a new attraction in Florida that may be worth checking out, but only from a distance. A multimillion dollar yacht is stranded off the coast and keeping guard is its multimillion dollar owner. Now, to some the tycoon has gone way overboard, but to others, he's standing up for much more than a battered ship.

CNN's John Zarrella reports.


JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Peter Halmos says there's no question he would have fired to kill.

PETER HALMOS, OWNER OF LEGACY: Right there. I couldn't miss.

ZARRELLA: Halmos was alone, standing guard on his 158-foot, $16 million sailing yacht, "Legacy."

HALMOS: When you say you're going to do something at the count of 10, you don't get to 11.

ZARRELLA: Eight men approached the boat, ignoring Halmos's call to leave, as if he didn't exist.

HALMOS: When this came out and this went in, all of a sudden, I became visible.

COOPER: And the eight men left. Halmos believes they were rogue salvers, pirates, who had come to strip his vote. It wasn't the first or last time Halmos, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, by himself chased trouble away because "Legacy" can't get away.

Once one of the largest, most magnificent sailing yachts in the world, "Legacy" is a battered near wreck stuck in the sand not two miles off Key West.

(On camera): What goes through your mind when you approach "Legacy" like this?

HALMOS: It's like a knife to the heart.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): It has been here for more than 15 months, ever since Hurricane Wilma tore "Legacy" from its anchors, drove the boat into the shallows and almost killed Halmos, the crew and "Legacy's" captain, Ed Collins.

HALMOS: And then Ed -- Ed comes along and he says, hey, guys, I still have a cell signal. Anyone want to call home and say good-bye?

ZARRELLA: The crew shot these frightening images of tornadoes spawned by Wilma. Halmos and Collins believe as Wilma raged in the dead of night, other tornadoes grabbed "Legacy" and nearly sunk her to the bottom. Instead, she was left sitting nearly perfectly upright in the shallows.

HALMOS: I think that was the act of God. Hurricanes and all of that are the acts of nature.

ZARRELLA: Since that day, Halmos has kept watch over his "Legacy," but never thought he'd be here this long.

The problem, "Legacy" ran aground in a federally protected wildlife sanctuary.

(On camera): Peter Halmos fought for months with the federal government over how best to move "Legacy" without further damaging the sensitive environment. It is not going to be easy. At low tide "Legacy" sits sometimes in as little as a few inches of water.

(Voice-over): Halmos and the government agreed to a plan that calls for a series of narrow pools to be constructed around "Legacy," to refloat the boat and sail her off the flats.

And after "Legacy" has gone for repairs, Halmos says he's going to stay right here to start what Wilma interrupted.

HALMOS: I don't know what you'd call it. Probably call it fruitcakes.

ZARRELLA: Peter Halmos is going to hunt for treasure from Spanish gallions, ships that sank in hurricanes.

John Zarrella, CNN, on board the "Legacy."


COOPER: Wow, there you go. We'll see.

Up next, an astronaut love triangle. What police say a female shuttle crew member tried to do the woman who shared another astronaut's affection. A bizarre story, next.


COOPER: A quick look at some of the other stories we're following.

Randi Kaye has a 360 bulletin -- Randi.


New concern tonight over bird flu in two countries. First, Egypt where a teenager has died of the disease, the 12th human fatality there. The victims all had contact with sick or dead birds. And in Britain at Europe's biggest turkey farm, nearly 160,000 birds have been slaughtered. After 2,500 others died of bird flu. Health officials are urging people to stay calm. The company that runs the farm says none of the affected birds made it to market.

In Missouri, Michael Devlin is facing 71 new felony charges, most of them sex related. All of them connected with the disappearances of Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck. The boys were found last month and reunited with their families. If convicted, Michael Devlin could get life in prison.

To Boston now, and a $2 million apology. That is the amount a marketing company and Turner Broadcasting have agreed to pay to settle last week's bomb scare. Bomb squads were called in after blinking electronic light boards were found around the city. The devices were actually a promotion for a Cartoon Network" show. Turner is also the parent company of this network.

And out of Florida, a bizarre case involving an astronaut, Mission Specialist Lisa Marie Nowak. Tonight, she's behind bars, charged with attempted kidnapping and battery. Police say she attacked and tried to abduct, apparently -- both were apparently involved with another astronaut. And Anderson, we have not heard the last of this story. You can bet that.

COOPER: Yes, it's a bizarre case. Randi, thanks.

A reminder, we want you to help us keep them honest. If there's a wrong that needs to be made right in your community, go online, tell us about it,

"LARRY KING" is next. His guest is Miss U.S.A....


CNN TV E-mail Services CNN Mobile CNNAvantGo Ad Info About Us Preferences
© 2007 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines