Skip to main content
U.S. Edition
Search
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 

Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Kidney Transplant Fugitive Caught in Mexico; Troop Deadline; It's Official; Stop Snitchin'; How Stalkers Operate

Aired April 25, 2007 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SUSIAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... his sincerity. And he said to the judge, I promise to you, if you let me out of jail, I'll go to have these tests done and then I will donate my kidney.
Well, on the last day, when he was supposed to show up for test, he took off. They couldn't find him. And that was it.

And his son is now saying it's about time that his father was caught.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): They got him. Byron Perkins, nicknamed the most hated dad in America. Busted in Mexico, back in the U.S., in a heap of trouble.

A dad who cried in front of a judge who let him out of jail last year so he could donate a kidney for his son, Destin, a son who desperately needed a kidney to live.

Perkins fooled them all and took off running with his girlfriend.

It was only after CNN ran the story that tourists in Mexico recognized him and called police.

The couple had run up a hotel and bar bills and skipped out on those, too.

For over a year, the U.S. Marshals searched for the odd couple and finally caught up with them in Puerto Vallarta. Authorities say they spent time before that near Manzanillo.

Last fall we visited with Destin after he got a new kidney from an anonymous donor. Back then he said this about his dad, and his mom says nothing's changed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you could ever forgive him?

DESTIN PERKINS, SON OF ARRESTED FUGITIVE: Forgive him? Probably not. That's -- it's a pretty bad thing that he did to me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (on camera): You know, 15 people have been on that U.S. Marshals most wanted list. We checked that list tonight. They haven't updated it yet, but there had been a $25,000 reward for information leading to the arrest.

I don't know whether at this point that reward had anything to do with the capture, but the U.S. Marshals are crediting the Mexicos with their hard work in trying to track these people down.

And this is what a U.S. marshal said after escorting Perkins and his girlfriend through the airport just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE CHABARRIA, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Unfortunately for them they came back to a place where everyone was looking for them because they had been there last year.

They showed up at Puerto Vallarta, where Mexico law enforcement already had the information and they recognized them and they got them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Susan, for Destin, what's in his future? Obviously, he's going to try to put this behind him. He's 17 years old now. He's doing well. He's got a kidney. What is he planning for future?

CANDIOTTI: It's going to be tough for him certainly emotionally to get over with this. A trauma that who knows if he'll ever be able to fully recover. But, this is kind of interesting. He told me way in the beginning and he said it again tonight. He's always wanted to be a police officer. And in fact, recently he rode along with them. He'd like to specialize in, guess what? Catching fugitives -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right.

Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.

I spoke with Destin by phone earlier tonight. Let's listen to some of the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Destin, where were you when you heard that your dad had been apprehended?

DESTIN PERKINS, SON OF ARRESTED FUGITIVE (on the phone): I had just walked in the house, through the front door, and sat down, and the phone rang.

COOPER: What went through your mind?

PERKINS: It was shocking. I mean, it took a big lift off my shoulders. I mean, it's been -- it's been worrisome.

COOPER: Did you expect him to get caught?

PERKINS: Sooner or later. But, I mean, I didn't think it would turn out anything like this. I thought it would be more like them turning themselves in, or not -- I wasn't expecting it to be this soon, you know, but.

COOPER: He and his girlfriend have been returned to the United States. Do you want to see him?

PERKINS: There's a lot of anger between me and him right now. I mean, I would like to see him, just tell him what I think and just ask one question, why he did it.

COOPER: Why he did it. What do you think he would say?

PERKINS: It's kind of sad that -- that he would run out on me like that.

COOPER: You must have been angry.

PERKINS: Oh, yes, there was a lot of anger going on there between us. I mean, it was -- it was depressing. I mean, it really wasn't healthy on me at the time. I was 16 years old.

And to have to worry about this, I mean, it just wasn't healthy for me.

COOPER: I remember talking to your mom at the time. And I think it was a couple months later, and you were on dialysis. You were finally able to get with a kidney, correct?

PERKINS: Right. I got a kidney from San Diego, California. As of today, I'm doing fine, just fine. I mean, the kidney's working great.

COOPER: Well, that's fantastic.

Are you able to you -- I know you used to like to play football. And I heard -- your mom told me you used to ride dirt bikes. Are you able to do that stuff again?

PERKINS: Yes, but, I mean, I'm taking a lot of precaution right now. I mean, this is a very valuable thing I have got right now. I mean, I don't want to lose it.

COOPER: You said you would want to say some things to your dad. I don't want to pry. And, if you don't want to say, it's fine. But, if you want to say, what would you say to him?

PERKINS: I mean, I don't know how he could lay his head down at night just knowing that he ran away and left me up here to die like that.

And that's just one of my main questions, is why he did it and how he could do it.

COOPER: He also left -- I mean, your grandmother had posted bail for him, and he left her in the lurch as well. PERKINS: He's not only put me through a lot, but it's been a lot of strain on her. I mean, the time he's been gone, his father's died of cancer. I don't know if he's aware of that. But, I mean, he's gone.

COOPER: You know, you're 17. But how do you deal with something like this? How do you get over it, you know?

PERKINS: Well, it's basically the same way I have gotten myself through this whole kidney ordeal. I mean, you just got to look at things a positive way.

But I just tell myself every day, I mean, there's always somebody worse off than me.

COOPER: And do you want to see him back in jail?

PERKINS: That's where both of them deserve to be. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, the rest of their life. I mean, they both deserve to be behind bars.

COOPER: Well, Destin, I'm glad things are going well for you. And I'm glad you're -- you're with your family at your grandmother's house now. And I'm glad your dad is finally going to be facing justice.

Thanks so much -- thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us.

PERKINS: All right. Thanks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: There is a huge demand for kidneys, not just in the United States, but around the world. Here's the raw data on it.

In 2005, more than a half million people needed a new kidney; 66,000 or about 10 percent, received a transplant -- just 10 percent; 13,266 of those transplants were here in America.

Late tonight a Washington lawmaker has kicked the showdown over Iraq to a new level. House Democrats pushing through a bill to fund the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also setting a timetable for pulling combat forces out of Iraq by next April.

A Senate vote comes tomorrow and if it passes, a presidential veto is expected to follow. Tonight's vote came after a progress report from the top commander in Iraq.

More on that now from CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. commander in Iraq walked through the halls of the capitol hours before the House vote on a Democratic plan to start bringing troops home and delivered a mixed review of his mission.

GENERAL DAVID PETREAUS, U.S. COMMANDER IN IRAQ: We are actually ahead of where I wanted to be in some areas and probably behind where we might have hoped to be in some other areas.

BASH: He highlighted progress in Baghdad -- sectarian murders down by a third since January, but reported failures, too.

PETREAUS: The ability of al Qaeda to conduct horrific, sensational attacks obviously has represented a setback in -- is an area in which we are focusing considerable attention, as you might imagine.

BASH: Republicans were hoping General David Petreaus could help reshape the political battle lines over the war in a way his commander in chief has failed to do.

But the general refused to engage in what he called the mind field of legislative proposals.

PETREAUS: I am a soldier and I'm going to give a forthright assessment and that's all that I will provide. I'm not going to be pressured by political leaders of either party.

BASH: An attempt to change minds would have been mission impossible anyway.

Democrats emerged from their briefings arguing the general's behind closed doors assessment bolstered their argument a timetable for withdrawal will pressure the Iraqi government to take more responsibility.

REP. STENY HOYER (D), MAJORITY LEADER: General Petreaus specifically indicated that he is relating to the Iraqis that expectation of the American public.

BASH: Republicans walked out saying the Democrats' withdrawal deadlines would send a dangerous message to the enemy.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: What was said by the general and others is that that would not be helpful to his cause and, quite frankly, went on to say that it would be -- it would hurt the very cause that we seek to win there.

BASH (on camera): The general didn't completely avoid politics. He made a point of noting the divisive debate is being watched around the world and asked Congress to remember among those watching are military families here at home and the enemy in Iraq.

Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Given the sharp clash of opinion over what to do about Iraq, we wanted to look closer tonight at the facts on the ground.

So earlier, I spoke with CNN's Michael Ware, who has been in Iraq since before the war began.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Michael, you literally just got back from Iraq. You were recently embedded in Diyala Province.

How does the situation on the ground compare to what we're being told over here?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, having just arrived back in then United States today, Anderson, I'm struck by the almost delusional nature of the debate that's under way.

I mean, what we're hearing, in the wake of General Petraeus's briefing to Congress, I mean, it's so out of touch with what's actually happening on the ground. I mean, the truth is, America has a lot of tough decisions to make right now. It needs to define for itself what success really will be.

COOPER: We heard today, after meeting with General Petreaus, John Boehner, the House minority leader, said that -- he was saying, a lot of the sectarian violence is being backed by Iran, has been caused by Iran.

WARE: Old, old story. The sectarian...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: True?

WARE: Absolutely.

The sectarian violence is two things. One, it is the ultimate legacy of former al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Now, he was assassinated by the U.S. using a precision bomb that blew him up in a house. He said from the very beginning -- he wrote it: My plan is to create sectarian violence, a civil war, because that will feed al Qaeda's aims.

That also feeds Iran's aims. The more that these two halves of this society go to war, the more it feeds America's enemies.

And to hear American politicians talking about putting pressure on Maliki, a lame-duck prime minister who has no authority with his own people or his government, to force a reconciliation, that reconciliation is in nobody's interests.

COOPER: Well, if not Maliki, what are the other options? Are there other options?

WARE: A great question, Anderson.

The alternatives that are being considered are non-democratic. They point specifically to places like Pakistan and Egypt, where you have military strongmen with a quasi-democracy who first deliver security, and democracy comes after that. COOPER: Where does the so-called surge -- others say just escalation -- where does it stand? How is it going? Too soon to tell?

WARE: Oh, way too soon to tell.

But what I can tell you right now, that, in terms of Baghdad, if you want to look at it through a microscope, without looking at the rest of the country, the surge will have an impact.

But, at the end of the day, if America wants to win in Iraq, it would need to surge the whole country. But it can't. So what it's done, in Baghdad, you're seeing changes in the violence.

You hear these politicians saying, sectarian murders are down.

Yes, that's true, but at what cost? American deaths are up.

COOPER: Michael Ware, thanks.

WARE: Thanks, Anderson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Up next, Senator John McCain makes it official. He's seeking the White House, but he's behind in the polls and in the quest for campaign cash. The question now, can he get the mojo back?

Also tonight, these stories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER (voice-over): A deadly message. A sea of crime, even a killing and say nothing or else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was shot once in the back and twice in the back of the head. And was killed instantly.

COOPER: Stop snitchin'. The rappers who preach it, the companies that promote it, and the price people pay for speaking up.

Harassing phone calls, threatening e-mails and text messages. Stalking on college campuses and beyond. It happens more than you think.

RACHEL SOLOV, SAN DIEGO COUNTY DEPUTY D.A.: It changes everything about your life. You alter your routine. You start looking in your rearview mirror more often. You look around corners.

COOPER: But should you press charges?

360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": What do you make, Senator McCain, of the Attorney General Gonzales issue? Many of your fellow Republican members of the Senate have expressed the thought that he ought to leave. Should he?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'm very disappointed -- disappointed in his performance. I think loyalty to the president should enter into his calculations.

KING: Did you say you think Gonzales should leave?

MCCAIN: I think out of loyalty to the president, that that would probably be the best thing that he could do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER (on camera): That was John McCain earlier on "LARRY KING LIVE," just hours after confirming what everybody's known all along.

The 70-year-old Republican today officially announced he is running for his party's presidential nomination. But McCain also acknowledged he faces huge challenges as he tries to pump new life into what has been a troubled campaign.

Here's Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley in Manchester, New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unsteady in the first quarter of this year, John McCain is looking for terra firma, planting himself firmly atop his resume -- 25 years in Congress, 5 years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, an expert on military and defense affairs. I am not the youngest candidate in the race, he said, but I am the most experienced.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I know how to fight and I know how to make peace. I know who I am and what I want to do.

CROWLEY: In a speech, half practical and half pros, McCain sought a balance somewhere between the country's ills and its hopes, between supporting the war and criticizing its conduct, between not dissing the president and getting distance from an administration voters have turned on.

MCCAIN: They won't accept the government's failure to deliver bottled water to dehydrated babies or rescue the infirmed from a hospital with no electricity. They won't accept substandard care and indifference for our wounded veterans.

That's not good enough for America and it's not good enough for me.

CROWLEY: Consistently running second in national Republican polls and third in the money race, McCain often seems stuck in the middle between conservatives who think he's too much of a maverick to be trusted and moderates who wonder where the maverick went. His task is to define himself.

MCCAIN: When I'm president, I'll offer common sense, conservative and comprehensive solutions to these challenges. Congress will have other ideas and I'll listen to them.

CROWLEY: It is a long way from now until November of 2008, but there are only so many restarts a campaign can have. McCain strategists say they're not worried. It's a marathon, not a sprint, said one. But as a supporter put it, McCain needs to get in the game, show he actually wants to win this.

(on camera): In 2000 when McCain's insurgent campaign was the talk of the town, he said it was like catching lightning in a bottle. The question is whether he can catch it again.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Manchester, New Hampshire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And that is the question.

Coming up in the next hour, see John McCain's complete interview on "LARRY KING".

Ahead on 360, seeing murder, but saying nothing. It is a code of conduct that they're calling "stop snitching," spread by hip-hop, and many crimes go unsolved because of it.

We'll hear from the mother of a young man who was gunned down in plain sight, but no witnesses are talking.

Plus, Rosie O'Donnell's departure from "The View" and what arch enemy Donald Trump is saying about it, when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Last night we took a troubling look at the power of two words -- stop snitchin'. It is a slogan you hear all the time if you listen to rap or hip-hop. It is shorthand for a criminal code of silence. It tells kids they should never talk to cops about crime.

Tonight we dig deeper into the story, starting with the murder of Busta Rhymes's bodyguard.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Israel Ramirez, Izzy to his friends, had a great sense of humor. He loved to laugh. And he loved his three sons.

STEPHANIE HIRES, MOTHER OF ISRAEL RAMIREZ'S CHILD: He was a beautiful dad. And he's a missed dad. A very missed dad.

COOPER: One cold winter night last year, his life ended abruptly in a hail of bullets in front of this Brooklyn recording studio.

New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says at least 25 people saw the shooting, but nobody is talking.

RAY KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: None have cooperated with the police. So, we're at a standstill in this investigation.

People say, we didn't see it. We were looking the other way. Or they will say, frankly, ask Busta Rhymes. We have to work in this industry. So, he was there. Ask him.

COOPER: Israel Ramirez was a bodyguard to rap star Busta Rhymes, and he thought he was a close friend.

Rhymes was filming a music video with other big-name rappers that night. Kelly says Rhymes was standing right next to Ramirez when he was shot.

KELLY: You would like to think that any citizen, when a close friend, a confidant, is murdered right next to them, would give us some bit of information. He has given nothing. He has not cooperated with us at all.

COOPER: And that's happening in a growing number of murder cases across the country. Witnesses are refusing to come forward.

Part of it is fear of retribution and a longstanding distrust of the police in some inner-city communities. But Kelly and others also blame a big-money message that record companies are selling hard -- stop snitching, as in, don't talk to the cops, no matter what.

It's a message rappers preach to prove their tough ghetto roots and keep up their street cred. And the young fans are buying it up.

GEOFFREY CANADA, PRESIDENT & CEO, HARLEM CHILDREN'S ZONE, INC.: A lot of these people, they are millionaires. They're no longer in any hood at all. They are not rapping about something they have been through. They're saying anything they need to say to make money.

COOPER: Busta Rhymes did offer these words to his former bodyguard Izzy at the end of a music video.

BUSTA RHYMES, RAPPER: We just wanted to make sure that people seen this, so they know that you ain't die in vain.

Love you, and I miss you, homey. Hope we made you proud.

COOPER: But for Ramirez's former partner and the mother of one of his children, that's not nearly enough. She's still holding out hope that Rhymes or someone will speak up to help find Izzy's killer.

HIRES: I will never lose hope. I truly think something will come about one day because someone somewhere is actually going to just clear their own conscience, because they are going to have to.

COOPER: Until then, whoever shot Israel Ramirez is free to kill again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): Well, Stephanie Hires is Israel Ramirez's former girlfriend, the mother of his son, Styles Ramirez (ph).

I talked to her earlier today, along with the Reverend Al Sharpton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Stephanie, it's been more than a year since Izzy was shot and killed.

And, when you hear that there were some -- as many as 25 witnesses, and no one has come forward to -- to tell police what they saw, what do you think?

HIRES: I think it's a shame that so many people can actually sleep at night, and not be able to just tell what -- what happened, what took place.

I couldn't understand how the precinct could receive so many calls at one time, and no one's seen anything. No one gave any information, not even a picture, not even a written -- anything, just anything. You could have went into a magazine, cut out pieces of paper, and made up a letter and sent it out to the precinct -- not necessarily saying your name or how involved you were in the situation, just anything to help.

COOPER: You want justice for Izzy?

HIRES: Yes, I do. He deserved justice. He was doing a job. And he lost his life doing a job. And the person he was bodyguarding felt safe when he was around him. So, yes, justice needs to be served.

COOPER: Reverend Sharpton, does it surprise you that -- that no one has come forward to at least just, even anonymously, tell police what they saw?

REV. AL SHARPTON, FOUNDER, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: It alarms me.

I think that when we create a climate where people, in some code of nonsense, say that we are protecting murderers and thuggery and drug dealers, what was the fear of those in the past, before our time, and even when I was younger, that they didn't want to be misused by law enforcement, now that kind of fear is being manipulated and played on by those that have put our community under siege.

And I think that this is an incredible situation that must be fought and must be exposed. And this exploitation must stop.

COOPER: You know, Reverend Sharpton, I -- when we aired this piece last night -- and we talked about this with Geoffrey Canada a lot last night, and Russell Simmons -- I got a lot of e-mails from people saying, look, you don't understand, in American African communities, the historic distrust of the police.

And -- but this goes much beyond just historic and very reasonable distrust at times of the police. This is something, a message that is being marketed and manipulated.

SHARPTON: No, I think that there is genuine mistrust of the police. And I think that many people have that mistrust based on conduct.

But I think that, to submit and to succumb to saying, therefore, I'm going to become the silent protectors of those that will commit crimes against my community, is not the answer.

No one raises more questions than I do about police. The answer is to make the police departments operate fairly and even for everyone. The answer is not to tell criminals, you ain't got to worry about being brought to justice here, because the next step will be, when we fight police cases, then those that testify there are told, you shouldn't be talking.

COOPER: Well, Reverend Sharpton, what responsibility do these hip-hop artists -- do the -- and the record companies, these multi- billion dollar, multi-million dollar record companies that are behind them, what responsibility, what role should they play? Because they're the ones right now, you know, wearing the Stop Snitchin' T- shirts and calling each other snitches and telling -- you know, spreading this message?

SHARPTON: I think that when we look at these huge corporations that are benefiting from it, that are really exploiting our community, we've got to call them into accountability. Just like they stopped rap records that they felt were anti-police, now, we've got records where they're really making our communities victims.

Two of the icons in that world are Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. We haven't even resolved their murders. That cheapens the lives of all in our community, when people can just be murdered and people walk away like they didn't even kill a human being.

COOPER: Stephanie, for you, this isn't, you know, some political argument. This isn't some thing out there. This is very real. Your former partner, the father of your, you know, beautiful son, was shot to death, by all accounts, by police accounts, in front of Busta Rhymes, in front of some maybe as many as 25 other people.

What would you say to a Busta Rhymes who hasn't been willing to even tell police what he saw?

HIRES: I would like to know what can he tell my son when he wants to know what happened to his dad. I would like to know him as a dad what could -- what could someone tell your children if it happened to you? How can they feel? They have no one to call, no one to say daddy to, no one to run to, speak to, just to get a hug, just to say I love you.

COOPER: I hope someone comes forward and talks about what they see. I hope Busta Rhymes comes forward and at least tells police what he saw.

HIRES: I mean, you know, I sleep well at night. And I wake up with a smile. So it's OK.

COOPER: Stephanie, thanks.

HIRES: Thank you.

COOPER: Reverend Sharpton, appreciate you for being on the program. Thank you.

SHARPTON: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: On the radar tonight, your e-mails on this story. A lot of people weighing in on the log.

S.P. in Kentucky writes about Busta Rhymes, and Cameron and others, "Is there a 'conscientious' chip missing from their brain? What a bunch of lame selfish excuses for their belief in not being a "snitch" when someone else's life has been taken. May God have mercy on their sad souls."

From Karen in Boston, "Rap and hip hop are about honesty and truth." She asked. "Is it that we don't want to know the truth, and that we can't handle the truth, that we have created? When lyrics include bits about killing people isn't it obvious its time for us to start listening?"

And this from Eric in Denver, "There are plenty of upstanding African-American communities that would not tolerate this. However, nobody ever consults them."

As always, let us know what you think. Just go on to CNN.com/360blog, follow the links and state your case.

Up next, another frightening crime where the victims often feel helpless.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER (voice-over): Harassing phone calls, threatening e-mails and text messages. Stalking on college campuses and beyond. It happens more hand you think.

RACHEL SOLOV, SAN DIEGO COUNTY DEPUTY D.A.: It changes everything about your life. You alter your routine. You start looking in your rearview mirror more often. You look around corners.

COOPER: But should you press charges?

Also tonight, she's fading from "The View." What Rosie O'Donnell is saying about her departure and what her nemesis Donald Trump is saying now.

DONALD TRUMP: Rosie is a self-destructive loser. And ultimately, ABC got tired of it.

COOPER: And to borrow the Donald's line, did somebody tell Rosie, "you're fired?" Ahead on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER (on camera): New details tonight about the Virginia Tech massacre. Authorities say it took gunman Seung-Hui Cho just nine minutes to kill 30 of his victims in Norris Hall.

We now know there were many warning signs that Cho was not only unstable, but dangerous.

At least two women at the university said he stalked them.

This may surprise you, but stalking is a major problem on campuses across the country and sometimes it can have deadly results.

CNN's David Mattingly investigates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Early on a Monday morning, shots rang out in a campus building, leaving two people dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A male and a female. Their connection has not been confirmed with each other yet.

MATTINGLY: This killing did not happen at Virginia Tech, but some say the similarities are cause for alarm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And was the victim stalked? That's the rumor we're hearing from students.

MATTINGLY: 26-year-old Rebecca Griego (ph) worked at the University of Washington, when her ex-boyfriend turned stalker shot and killed her at her on-campus office, then killed himself.

It happened exactly two weeks before another accused stalker at Virginia Tech opened fire on classrooms and both killers exhibited behavior that experts say is frequently overlooked.

CONNIE KIRKLAND, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: It goes unnoticed for several reasons. I mean, one, very few stalking victims report the crimes to police. I think that the highest number I've seen is 17 percent.

MATTINGLY: A Justice Department report from six years ago revealed that the stalking of young women on college campuses is much more common than parents might want to hear.

In a six to nine month period, 13 percent of female students surveyed said they had been followed, watched, telephoned, written, or e-mailed by men in ways that seemed obsessive and made them fear for their safety. Some cases left lasting emotional harm. DR. TODD COX, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: That component of invoking fear in the individual is really at the core of the stalking that does have tremendous ramifications down the road for the individual.

MATTINGLY: Experts say women on college campuses can be more vulnerable for several reasons. Their movements and locations are predictable. All of it determined by class schedules. Personal information can also be easy to get.

KIRKLAND: Traditional stalking, which is the following, the telephone calling, the sending e-mails, has been augmented by all of the text messaging, all of the social networking sites that are on now where students have access to each other, so much more than they ever had had before.

MATTINGLY (on camera): And that goes for both women and men.

But if you look at overall statistics, women are much more likely to become victims. And stalkers much more likely to be men.

(voice-over): Seung-Hui Cho was reported to Virginia Tech campus police by two young women for stalking them in 2005. His roommates at the time say Cho collected personal information on the women.

Police examined phone and computer records to see if Cho may have had contact with the first murder victim, a woman who lived in a nearby dorm.

KIRKLAND: About 10 percent of all stalkers either attempt a sexual assault or commit a sexual assault on their stalking victim. Unfortunately, about 2 percent of stalking victims end as murder victims.

MATTINGLY: In the case of Rebecca Griego (ph), she was attempting to escape a violent relationship. She had even moved and obtained a protection order from the courts. None of this helped her, as her killer knew when and where to find her on campus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: David, did I just hear someone in your piece saying that most victims know their stalker?

MATTINGLY (on camera): That's correct. More than 60 percent of male victims and almost 80 percent of female victims know who their stalker is. And way more often than not, it is a former boyfriend or a girlfriend. Someone they know very, very well.

And these are cases that don't just last a matter of days or weeks. The typical stalker will pursue his victim for an average of one to two years.

So you can see how even if there is no physical violence, it can take a tremendous emotional toll on that victim.

COOPER: Yes. Very Scary.

David, thanks for that.

Stalking, it's not limited to college campuses, of course. It's a problem around the country. Up next, we're going to take a look at how you can determine whether someone is stalking you.

Plus, it had all the drama of a daytime soap opera, which it kind of was. Rosie O'Donnell, Barbara Walters and of course, Donald Trump, and a whole cast of characters. But now the curtain is coming down. Rosie is leaving "The View." We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We're talking about stalking tonight. Of course, it's not limited to colleges. According to the Department of Justice, this year alone more than 1 million women will be stalked in America. So how can they protect themselves?

Rachel Solov is the deputy D.A. in San Diego County, heads the sex crimes and stalking unit for the district attorney's office. We spoke earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Rachel, I was surprised to learn that a study in 2000 found 13 percent of college women say that they had been stalked in the previous seven months. Is there a reason that it seems so prevalent on college campuses?

RACHEL SOLOV, SAN DIEGO COUNTY DEPUTY D.A.: I think that some of that has to do with the fact we're dealing with people that are younger, that have less life experience, that don't deal with life experience in the ways that some older people do. Things seem to be a lot bigger of a deal.

I think also that in a situation like that, sometimes women of that age group have a hard time saying no and setting boundaries. And sometimes -- sometimes men in that age group have a difficult time understanding no.

COOPER: Anyone who has been on TV has people who stalk them at one time or another. I've got a woman who, you know, believes she has a relationship with me. And there's really nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. You know you can try to ignore them all you want, but if you like send one e-mail to say, look, please stop this, that just sparks it up again.

SOLOV: Right. And that's one thing that we actually recommend to our victims, whether they be male or female, is that they completely disengage. Is that they cut off all contact because what is happening in the stalker's mind is that negative contact is just as good as positive contact.

COOPER: You also say pressing charges is not always the best thing to do. We know Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech reportedly stalked two women. Both reported it, but ended up not pressing charges. You say you shouldn't necessarily press charges?

SOLOV: Yes, that's correct, because sometimes we can't lock someone up long enough under the current sentencing schemes. And as a management technique in managing the threat, sometimes prosecuting can aggravate the situation because if you think about it, what's going to happen is that victim's going to have to sit in court. They're going to have to engage by testifying. And so it just sets up another stage where the stalker continue to focus.

What we're not saying is don't report it. What we're saying is let people who are professionals and experts in the field make that decision as to what the best approach is.

COOPER: How do you know if someone is a stalker?

SOLOV: Some of that is the perception of the victim. Under California law in regards to anti-stalking, has to do with the course of conduct and a credible threat. And that threat can be implied by conduct.

Some examples of that are the inappropriate pursuit, the being told time and time again, back off. You know, here's the boundary. You keep crossing it. At a certain point that becomes a threat because the person is on notice that what he or she is doing is scaring the victim.

COOPER: So if someone out there thinks they are being stalked, what -- what do you advise that they do?

SOLOV: I advise that they go to law enforcement, they go to some sort of an expert, a professional, in the area of threat assessment because the first step is to start building the case. And one of that -- part of that is starting to document everything.

We advise them to tell people that are close to them about the situation so that if they notice anything weird or out of place, they can tell the victim so the victim can be prepared to deal with it.

COOPER: Can you ever really get rid of a stalker?

SOLOV: A lot of people do end up having to move. And a lot of times, even if we do send them to prison for three, four, five years, they get out and they continue to focus on the victim. And sometimes it just takes refocusing on another victim.

Unfortunately, this is a problem that just persists.

COOPER: And for the victim, the focus of the stalker, I mean, the effect is long lasting.

SOLOV: It can be a lifetime of effect. It's really a crime, a psychological terror. It changes everything about your life. You alter your routine. You start looking in your rearview mirror more often. You look around corners. Everything changes and there's always that fear that this person is going to come back.

COOPER: It's such a bizarre thing. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks.

SOLOV: My pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, tomorrow night on 360, a special in-depth report on the crimes that haunt us all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER (voice-over): Before their infamous murders, these killers were odd, but not obviously dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can happen anywhere in the nation.

COOPER: A college student, a housewife, a quiet, middle-aged guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In big towns, in small towns, in rural neighborhoods.

COOPER: So how did they all go unnoticed? Why weren't they stopped before they acted? Tomorrow night our special report, "Killers in our Midst."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER (on camera): That's tomorrow.

Still to come tonight, Rosie O'Donnell's wild year on "The View" and reaction to news that she's leaving. Yes, that means we're going to hear a little bit from the Donald. 360 next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Rosie O'Donnell is leaving "The View" in June. And though short, what a bumpy ride it was.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSIE O'DONNELL, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news. Did you hear this on CNN? It's breaking news.

COOPER (voice-over): For some, it may have been breaking news, but for us, well, not exactly. Rosie O'Donnell's announcement on "The View" this morning was met with either shock or a sigh of relief.

O'DONNELL: I have decided -- and we couldn't come to terms with my deal with ABC so next year, I'm not going to be on "The View".

COOPER: Her tenure on the daytime talk show was brief, but certainly memorable. She first took her seat at the table in September 2006. O'DONNELL: This is my first day on "The View." I'm in the Meredith chair, and it's exciting.

COOPER: The former standup comic was never what you'd call a shrinking violet. But no one seemed prepared for the deluge of controversy she'd come to court.

O'DONNELL: And I'm taking my medicine, so everything's fine.

COOPER: In just the last seven months, she'd pick fights with, well, just about everybody. She called fellow daytime Talk Show Host Kelly Ripa a homophobe, following this bit of banter.

KELLY RIPA, CO-HOST, ABC'S "LIVE WITH REGIS & KELLY": That's a no-no.

CLAY AIKEN, SINGER: Oh, I'm in trouble? I should just...

RIPA: No, I just don't -- I don't know where that hand's been, honey.

O'DONNELL: Now, listen, to me, that's a homophobic remark. If that was a straight man, if that was a cute man, if that was a guy that she, you know, didn't question his sexuality, she would have said a different thing.

COOPER: She also took on fundamentalist Christians.

O'DONNELL: Just one second. Radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam

COOPER: And shared her views about what happened on 9/11.

O'DONNELL: It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved.

COOPER: Oh, yes. She also offended Chinese Americans.

O'DONNELL: Well, you can imagine in China, it's like "ching chong, ching chong Danny DeVito. Ching chong chong, 'The View'. Ching chong."

COOPER: And she insulted the president.

O'DONNELL: You know, this administration, it's getting close to the end, people. Say the word, impeach.

COOPER: And then, of course, there was that feud with Donald Trump, painting an ugly picture of the man and his beauty pageant.

O'DONNELL: Everybody deserve a second chance, and I'm going to give her a second chance.

DONALD TRUMP, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER: Well, Rosie's a loser. She's always been a loser. I've always understood it. She failed with her magazine. She failed with her show. As you know, at the end it was doing very poorly in terms of the rating. Rosie is really somebody that -- she's unattractive in every sense of the word.

COOPER: "The View's" creator, Barbara Walters, has at times seemed embarrassed by O'Donnell. But today, she said this.

BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": I hoped that it would be more than one year, but we have had, to say the least, an interesting year.

COOPER: In the end, of course, it's the ratings that count. And Rosie's ravings have given "The View" a ratings rise. So Rosie may be gone, but not for good.

O'DONNELL: But it's not sad. Because I loved it here, and I love you guys. And I'm not going away. I'm just not going to be here everyday.

COOPER: Hold onto your hats. There's no telling where she'll turn up next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): She'll be back, no doubt. It is Rosie versus the Donald. And that's one big match-up that's not likely to go away even after she leaves "The View." In fact, she kind of brought this whole thing back I guess a couple days ago. She said something during a lunch. Anyway, the Donald has responded.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Her ratings were really good when she and I were going at it in January. Since then, her ratings have been falling precipitously. They've really been coming down quickly.

Now, Rosie's always been that way. Her last show was thrown off for ratings. And the fact is her ratings turned out to be bad, because people get tired of Rosie. They get tired of listening to her.

So you know, if you look at from a ratings standpoint, from a lot of other standpoints, I think ABC just made the decision, we don't want to put up with this abusive person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, just ahead tonight, powerful tornadoes strike in the night -- I had a little bit of an itch. We'll have the latest when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Let's take a look at the day's headlines with Tom Foreman. A 360 news and business bulletin -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Anderson. The White House says the president wants someone held accountable for the misinformation surrounding Pat Tillman's death.

According to Deputy Press Secretary Dana Perino, Mr. Bush did not know about the unusual circumstances of the death until after Tillman's funeral. Tillman was killed by friendly fire, but military officers had initially said he died in an ambush.

At the Texas border town of Eagle Pass, the search for tornado victims has ended. Twisters that hit the area last night killed at least 10 people and destroyed several buildings and homes in both Texas and Mexico. All residents on the Texas side have now been accounted for. At least 50 families are now homeless.

In business news, a better day on Wall Street, where 13 is a lucky number. For the first time ever, the Dow closed above the 13,000 mark, ending the day at 13089. A strong reading on the economy and upbeat earnings from Amazon.com fueled the Dow's bullish day. The NASDAQ and S&P also up.

And all you music lovers are still buying plenty of iPods. Apple today said its quarterly profits jumped 88 percent, smashing Wall Street expectations. iPod sales helped lead the way, with more than 10.5 million iPods being shipped out in the first three months of this year.

COOPER: Wow.

FOREMAN: So plug yours in, turn on your unrivaled slayer collection and call it a day -- Anderson.

COOPER: What's going to happen when that phone comes out? It's going to go crazy.

(CROSSTALK)

FOREMAN: Yes, I don't know how people feel about that though. I think some people think it's a great idea and some people think, look, you guys are great at what you do. Don't get into phones.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: We'll see.

FOREMAN: You'll have it. You have all...

COOPER: I would like to if I could. Anyway, we'll see.

FOREMAN: Of course you will. You will have it before anyone has it.

COOPER: All right, Tom. Thanks very much.

Don't miss the day's headlines with the 360 daily podcast -- iPod strictly optional. You can watch it on your computer at CNN.com/AC360podcast or go to iTunes, where it's already one of the top downloads in just our first few weeks. How about that?

And a reminder, be sure to watch "AMERICAN MORNING," starting at 6:00 a.m...

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com

CNN U.S.
CNN TV E-mail Services CNN Mobile CNNAvantGo Ad Info About Us Preferences
Search
© 2007 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by CNN.com
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines