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Alleged Killers Caught in Newark Murders; Interview with Murdered Student's Father; Are Parents to Blame for Violence of Children?

Aired August 9, 2007 - 20:00   ET


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, there's two big stories that we're following for you and we've got some pictures to show you.
First of all, for first time, the money shot. Actually being able to go inside the mine. Gary Tuchman is able to do that for you. By the way as we show you those pictures, we should tell you it's possible during this hour we're going to find out if those miners are alive or dead.

Now I want to show you these pictures from the Philippines. This is a giant concrete wall that fell on a house and there's been a rescue effort, and they're actually trying to lift the people out and try to extricate them from that very difficult situation.

All this and a whole lot more right here, OUT IN THE OPEN.

Good kids, college bound, shot here execution style. Today the main suspect walks up to this mayor and turns himself in.


MAYOR CORY BOOKER (D), NEWARK: I want the killers off the streets of the city of Newark.


SANCHEZ: Here's the victim's father. Who does he blame? Parents.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you raise your kids up, you teach them right and a wrong.


SANCHEZ: He joins us with a gut-wrenching message.

Also, why are 10 million people searching for this video? We see animal rescues all the time, but this is an animal rescue by animals.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never seen anything like this.


SANCHEZ: This is wild. You'll see it OUT IN THE OPEN.

Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. As we begin this newscast, we're being told now that this could happen at any moment, so we're standing by for any major developments out in the Utah mine cave-in. As soon as that announcement comes in, we're going to be going live to Utah, sharing with you what that report is coming back with.

We are going to begin tonight with a story that could be a made- for-television movie, but this is real. It's about students, three of them, killed execution style. Tonight the key suspect is turning himself in, not to police mind you, but to a city's mayor. Our lead reporter tonight from Newark is CNN's Deborah Feyerick.


DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The day began with the news of a stunning arrest in the brutal murders of three college students.

BOOKER: That individual is a 15-year-old male who as a result of the of person's age, we are not releasing the person's age.

FEYERICK: Police would not say what the teen's role was in the killings. But just as the morning press conference was wrapping up, Newark's Mayor Cory Booker got word of a crucial break in the case. The key suspect, a man whose identity had just made public, was ready to surrender. Not just to anyone, but the mayor himself. The handoff at police headquarters under tight security.

BOOKER: He said nothing. We put him in handcuffs and we walked the individual into the office. I personally helped the detective to sit him down and I left.

FEYERICK: 28-year-old Jose Carranza from South America is charged with three counts of murder, one count attempted murder, robbery and weapons offenses. The 15-year-old who prosecutors want to try as an adult faces the same charges. Police will not say who pulled the trigger and how many, though they continue searching for other suspects. The murder of these promising students has rocked this city.

(on camera): This is where the four friends came face to face with the shooter. The four friends had came here late Saturday to hang out, talk, listen to music. Two men, police say, were already here. But then more started to come. The friends knew they were in trouble. They knew they were in trouble. One of the girls tried to run. She was shot. She managed to survived. But the other three were walked down these steps to this wall. They were lined up and shot, execution style. The wall has now been painted over.

(voice-over): The lone survivor, Natasha Aerial, has been under sedation following surgery to remove the bullet in her jaw. Police say she helped identify Carranza and the 15-year-old from a picture line-up. A fingerprint on a beer bottle and ballistic evidence found at the school yard also helped identify the two in custody.

BOOKER: I don't think words can describe the level of emotion I feel about this individual and all the individuals involved and what they've done to these families; what they've done, allegedly done.


FEYERICK: Now if a 15-year-old has a criminal history, it is under seal, so nobody knows what that is. But Jose Carranza, he was actually out on bail, $150,000, facing an indictment -- 31 counts, both of sexual assault and endangering the welfare of a minor. Rick?

SANCHEZ: Deborah Feyerick, following that story for us from Newark.

We felt like we had to do more on this story. The pain of losing a child is unimaginable, but it makes different people react really in different ways. One of the murdered students is Dashon Harvey. His father James has reacted by putting the blame where he is convinced it belongs in this case. What he says with cameras gathered around him actually may surprise you.


JAMES HARVEY, SON MURDERED: It's on you guys. It's on the parents of the city of Newark or whoever you are in the world. It's on the parents. When you raise your kids up, you teach them right from wrong.


SANCHEZ: We were taken aback by that statement that he made in that news conference, so just today we asked him to join us. Mr. Harvey, thanks so much for being with us, sir.

HARVEY: Yes, I appreciate you having me.

SANCHEZ: Well you know, the viewers maybe should know that you and I have had several conversations throughout the course of the day. But publicly let me say just on behalf of all of us at CNN, that we offer you our condolences.

HARVEY: I appreciate that, I appreciate that very much so.

SANCHEZ: It was an interesting statement you made about holding parents responsible for this. You don't usually hear that from someone who has just lost a child. Why did you say that?

HARVEY: Because the fabric of our society starts at home. You as a parent, when you are not bringing your kid up properly, that's when we have crime and things like that in our neighborhood. That's where it starts.

SANCHEZ: What specifically are these parents not doing right?

HARVEY: Spending time for them, OK, being there for them. OK when he comes from school, even if you are not there, calling him, making sure he does his homework.

On weekends, take him to the movies, take him to Chuck E' Cheese. Do events with him. If he's got a football game, try to attend. If you can't go this week, go next week. Just being there for your child and knowing what your child is doing at all hours of the day and night.

SANCHEZ: Tell us about Dashon because from every single thing that we have heard, he was just a great kid.

HARVEY: He was a wonderful kid. I seen in him the things that I didn't have in me. You know, he was my guiding light. He was doing things that I had never done. He went to Disney World three or four times. He's been to Belize. He has traveled in 20 years more than I did in 41 years. It's a blessing for him to have lived the life he lived. Unfortunately, it was so short, but he did live a good life.

SANCHEZ: Are you angry about this?

HARVEY: It upsets me. Of it's beyond anger. It's an outrage. It's a cry for help. What is going on in our society that children are actually being involved in murders? What is a 15-year-old hanging out in a school yard that type of evening? Where is the parent? Do you know where your child is, really? The blame does not fall on Mr. Booker nor the police department. It falls on the parents.

SANCHEZ: If these suspects are indeed responsible for the death of your son, and you had an opportunity to talk to them right now, what would you say to them?

HARVEY: My most important thing would be why would you do something like this? Why? To innocent kids that meant no harm to you, wasn't armed with anything, and for you to just approach them and to take their lives out just like that. I'm pretty sure they would have gave you what they had, and you could have walked away.

SANCHEZ: It sounds like from the description of the crime scene, that he really didn't have a chance. In fact, the word execution style has been used to describe his murder.


SANCHEZ: What do you think about when you hear that?

HARVEY: That brings into question of the mentality of the animals that would do such a thing. Automatically, one bullet to the back of the head like a firing squad -- judge, jury and execution.

That's the drama -- the senseless murder of three college kids out having a good time, and for someone to come along in the middle of the night and just take their lives like that is senseless.

SANCHEZ: I can only imagine how much you miss Dashon. You must miss him a lot.

HARVEY: Yes, I do. I can't sleep. I haven't eaten properly in a week or so. And what's getting me through it is the love from my family, people calling me with their blessings.

SANCHEZ: James Harvey, our thanks to you sir, once again.

HARVEY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So what about this idea of the real fault lying with the parents as you just heard Mr. Harvey say to me? Joining us now, Joseph DelGrosso is the president of the Newark Teachers Union. He's been following the story extremely close. William Pollack is a psychologist and the director of the Centers for Young Men and Women at Harvard Medical School. He's also an expert on the issue of young people and violence.

It's an interesting theme that he raises, isn't it William? The idea that really it's we the parents who are letting these kids down all over the nation. Is he right?

WILLIAM POLLACK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, he's right when he is talking about all parents, when he's talking about society. I don't know about the particular parents, maybe they are letting them down. But when kids are connected to caring, loving parents and to caring, loving teachers and preachers and mentors, they are much less likely to engage in these violent acts.

SANCHEZ: Well look, we used to be more of an agricultural society. We've changed over the time. We're so techno-driven now that it seems that there's not a lot of personal contact between kids and their parents. Is that something that's going to be really a huge problem for us down the line if these things continue?

POLLACK: Well, it's not just kids and their parents, but kids and responsible adults, teachers too. We have research to show that boys and girls who have one parent at home who loves them are four times more likely to do well and not engage in violence. And if there is one person in school who cares about them and understands them, four times again -- a 16-times protective factor that our society isn't spending its money on, to provide protection.

SANCHEZ: All right, let's talk about where society is spending its money. I guarantee you, Mr. DelGrosso, and I don't know this for sure because I don't know Newark, but I guarantee you that the number of police officers on that end picking up the kids after they become criminals is much, much greater than the number of people that your city has to try to get to the kids before they become criminals. I bet you if I go to many of your schools and your parks, I won't see that many recreation directions there. Do you see think that's a problem?

JOSEPH DELGROSSO, NEWARK TEACHERS UNION: Yes, I do. I think that collectively as a society and a city here, if we don't engage the children, then we are the failures. We put up billboards about eight months ago with a plea saying help wanted.

We were not forecasting the future, we were merely telling society and this city that looking at the crime rate, we didn't see that there was going to be a drop in it. In fact, we predicted that there would be a spike in it. And the help wanted plea is still out there.

SANCHEZ: But here's my point. And I really want to talk specifics about this because it seems to me when I went yesterday to that field, that school where this horrible murder took place, I basically saw an empty playground. I didn't see any adults around there at the time.

Why not take some of the great police officers who are great people in your community and communities all over this country, take away their guns, take away their badge, give them a whistle and a coach's hat and have them work with these kids. They have got nobody if their parents work two jobs as mine did when I was growing up. Right?

DELGROSSO: Well, you know, you are right. I grew up here in the city of Newark. When I was a child, I spent a lot of time at the playground. There were adequate recreation programs that took place. The play grounds were open until 9:00.

SANCHEZ: But not today.

DELGROSSO: We played under the lights. No, we don't and I have to say.

SANCHEZ: Mr. Pollack, go ahead and finish off because I'm told we're down to 20 seconds.

POLLACK: OK, it's about connection, connection, connection. In our study of schools, when there's a safety officer without a gun who connects to the kids, plays with them, talks to them and they're trusted with him and we have after-school programs, violence goes down 50 percent.

SANCHEZ: Joseph DelGrosso, William Pollack, I think we may have hit on something here. You were going to finish, you've got five seconds to do so, Mr. DelGrosso. Go ahead.

DELGROSSO: Yes, I hope that we do engage the community. I think that we need more activists, and I'm surely hoping that the next time that we talk about this, it will be because crime in this city has gone down.

SANCHEZ: Well said, sir. We appreciate both your time for being with us tonight.

Next up, that Utah mine where a drill should be breaking through to those six trapped miners. We are told at any time. In fact, we are getting indications there may be a major announcement coming from right there at the scene. We have got a lot of boots on the ground there. So as soon as there is any hint of information, we're going to take you there right away. You'll hear it here first. Also, we're going to take you inside the mine itself. Unbelievable pictures of the damage from the cave-in and the rescue efforts like perhaps we've never seen before.

Also, another debate for a gay audience. What are Democrats thinking? What are Republicans thinking that they will do about it? We are going to be right back.


SANCHEZ: There you see the picture, it's set up for you now. At any moment now, we understand there is going to be a news conference coming from there, telling us exactly what the fate of those miners may be. In fact, we want to come out here if we could now.

We have been getting dramatic images from this throughout the day. There you see part of the mine, there you see of course Mr. Murray, and there you see him again talking to some of the reporters, as he's been doing diligently throughout the day.

We are expecting -- and we need to underscore this again -- that they may be telling us whether those trapped miners are in fact dead or alive, whether they have been able to get air, whether they have been able to get food or water to them. They are trying to do this of course using that smaller drill bore.

By this morning, the drill we were told was 300 feet from the men. The drill was expected to break through sometime late today. Things have been pushed back somewhat.

Let's do this now for you. Let's try to get the very latest. Ted Rowlands, standing by there. He's joining us now. Ted, how close would you say they are at this point from being able to provide any kind of definitive answers?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, they have just provided some answers to family members.

We are at the school where family members have been getting briefed every day. And we are just now seeing people leaving this briefing including people representing Senator Orrin Hatch who was in there. We saw the governor of Utah just leave within the last couple of minutes.

So presumably, families have just been notified. We did see one family in the back of a police car actually leaving here, and they seemed to be getting escorted up towards the mine. What that means, we don't know.

But clearly this was a day full of tension because this was the day that the families might find out if indeed there was life in the mine. The two-inch drill was supposed to be at the spot, the cavern, where these miners are supposed to be, where they believe these miners are.

That two-inch drill should be there by now. And mine officials may now know whether there are signs of life. The family has just been briefed. It's unclear what they have been told.

Not all of the family members have left, but as I told you, as we're sitting here, we are starting to see the first stream of cars leaving that briefing. We should get an update up at the top of the hill at the command post within the next half-hour or so. That's about how long it would take to get up there and begin what would be the media briefing. But potentially news about what the miners fate at any minute coming down and the families may already know.

SANCHEZ: This may be an obvious question to you, Ted, but is there anything you were able to tell just from their body language as you watched some of them walk out?

ROWLANDS: Yeah, we have been trying to -- you know what, if you turn the camera here. This is Bob Murray here, the president of Murray Energy. He is just arriving here to presumably give the latest briefing. This briefing was supposed to start about an hour ago with the family. There's Mr. Murray now to brief the families.

SANCHEZ: In the truck? OK.

MURRAY: That was Mr. Murray driving by right now driving that truck. So we don't know. We are still in the dark. The question you asked, could we read the body language? We couldn't. They didn't seem overly excited, or there was not a lot of despair in the family that was in the back of that car. Now you see Mr. Murray turning around and go the other way.

SANCHEZ: We're just going to kind of stay with you here for a little bit and watch this thing develop because with Mr. Murray.

ROWLANDS: So Mr. Murray, that black SUV, that Toyota Sequoia is Mr. Murray's driving it and now he is headed up the mine. He is headed up towards the mine and driving himself. Why he was a little late to this news conference, we don't know. But he's obviously heading up there. And like I said, we did see a family, what appeared to be a family in the back of a squad car heading up toward the mine. That's all we can tell you at this point.

SANCHEZ: But just to be clear, so our viewers kind of get a better read on this, many of them who haven't been following this story all day long. We are talking about a drill that's going to go down that might provide them an opportunity to either provide them A, sustenance or possibly even get a camera down there just to see what's there, right? That's all we're talking about at this point. It wouldn't be to actually get them out.

ROWLANDS: No, there would be no way to get them out. This is a two-inch hole we're talking about. But this would be potentially news that there is life or potentially some other news. But we just don't know what it is.

The bottom line is here for four days these families have been waiting for something and this was going to be the day. According to the latest update on the drill's progress into the mine, the drill should be there by now. Whether or not the drill hit, whether or not they have been able to establish communication, we don't know.

We should know within the next few minutes because we are expecting a briefing at the command center. The families have already been briefed. We're expecting the media and the nation to be briefed within the next few minutes as Mr. Murray makes his way up to the top of the hill.

SANCHEZ: As a matter of fact, just from all the commotion that we see behind you. Good job hanging in there, by the way, Ted. We can tell just from the commotion that something is going on. We expect it could happen very closely.

Let's do this. Just to prepare ourselves, we are going to go to a break. In the meantime, we also want to tell you that during the night, our Gary Tuchman actually went into the mine and brought back some unbelievable video, that's something like you've never seen before, especially when something happened down there that may surprise you. Stay with us, we'll have the update. Gary's report as well, we'll be right back.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We are going to be sharing some new information that we have been receiving that we will be sharing regarding what's going on with that mine collapse rescue.

As a matter of fact, we want to start with this. These were the names that were just handed to me a little while ago that we can finally nail down in this case. Let's start with Kerry Allred. That was the first time given to us. These are for the first time being released from the last hour, so the names of some of the miners that have been trapped down there. And this doesn't include all of them, by the way. We have four names and three pictures to show you.

Let's go to the second one, this is Carlos Payan. Carlos Payan's picture is released also by the mining company moments ago. There he is. We have Manuel Sanchez. We told you about Manuel Sanchez yesterday, and there is one more name, by the way. We don't have a picture to match it. And that would be Brandon Phillips. So those are four new names that we can share with you at this point.

Well now even as the drilling goes on above the mine, crews are deep inside, trying to work 24 hours a day. As some of the pictures that you've been seeing behind me show, what the images are like there inside the area where the crews are working. They're obviously desperately trying to find those six trapped miners. What's it like in there? Well our Gary Tuchman actually got a look at the world that normally only miners ever see. He went deep inside and what he found was at times there is also the unexpected. Watch Gary's report.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We entered the Crandall Canyon Mine with the same tunnel the six trapped workers went through. A three-mile journey in a small truck that would take about a half hour in utter darkness. We passed rescue workers and their vehicles on the way to our ultimate destination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there is where the rescue efforts is going on. TUCHMAN: This is as far as we could go. This is where the mine collapsed. The six trapped miners are believed to be tantalizingly close, but with tons of coal separating them from us, this was an unusual opportunity to see how much work rescue workers still have. You're looking at the effort to drill into the coal and rock to rescue the six men. The machine is called a continuing mining vehicle. It has a spinning drum in the front of it with blades. It cuts into the coal, rock and other debris that is mixed in from the mine collapse and then deposits it on a back of what's known as a shuttle car, which can transport 12 tons of coal at a time. The coal is sent on a conveyor belt outside the mine and the process continues over and over and over again, far below the surface of the earth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the damage is here, we're about 2,000 feet deep.

TUCHMAN: But the process had to stop for almost two days because of seismic activity that has shaken up the mine and made it too dangerous for rescue workers. The work to get to the miners originally began at a different point of the mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had this cleaned up 310 feet. The machinery is still in there.

TUCHMAN: But another shift in the earth caused another partial collapse and the cleared area filled with coal again.

(on camera): Frankly, it's very eerie standing here knowing that 2,000 feet behind me and maybe less are the six trapped miners. It's cold, it's dark, it's foreboding. A claustrophobic could never cut it in here. There's a steady wind blowing, the ceilings are low. We're 30 minutes away from the nearest exit. In normal times, it's very stressful. But right now, there's a lot of tension. Nevertheless, the rescue workers, the people who normally work in the mine are calm because they have a job to do.

(voice-over): And take a look at what happens to our camera shot while we're in the mine. We hear a boom that shakes the mine and startles the workers and especially us. The owner says it's another seismic event. One more and we evacuate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the coal breaks away and lays there, we call that sluffage.

TUCHMAN: But there are no more. We do see other damage to the mine walls caused by the initial collapse. But it's the feverish work to rescue six men dead or alive that stays in our minds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This rubble could extend -- well, we know it goes 300 feet because we were up there, but it may go another 100 feet and stop and we can just walk up to the men or they may be right there.

TUCHMAN: Wishful thinking, perhaps, but it's keeping these rescue workers going. Gary Tuchman, CNN, in the Crandall County Mine, Utah.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: Amazing report. We're getting information there may be some activity going on at the mine, so let's take you back there. This time, it's Ed Lavandera who is following developments. Eddie, what you got? What can you share with us?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well right here, we are as close as we can get to where the mine is. This is the area where Bob Murray, the owner of the mine, and various mining officials have been holding briefs throughout the day.

We are told about 6:30 local time that this late afternoon briefing would happen. There have been some cars that have pulled up, as you may see behind me.

We are waiting for that to start happening at any second now. However, we haven't seen Bob Murray arrive here. I reached out to one of the family members of one of the trapped members a short while ago. They haven't heard any new updates. Although many of the family members, if there is any update, have been in that meeting just about 10 miles away from where we are here at the entrance to the mine.

And so many of the family members had gone to that meeting to hear the latest and get the latest information on how that drilling was going. Remember the anxiety and the anticipation here is to find out how that 2-1/2 inch drilled hole, if that has reached the area it needed to reach to establish communications.

And, of course, this has always been a big if throughout the day and it's very possible that that hole completely misses its mark and they'll have to wait on the 8-inch hole, which is still being worked on. But that won't happen until sometime tomorrow.

So, you know, we're anxiously awaiting the update on this. That we were told around noon today that it would take about six hours for that smaller hole to reach the point where it need to go down, about 1,870 feet. And so, presumably, if everything had kept in motion and kept going the way it needed to and there weren't any problems, of course you know, machinery can break down and that can cause delays, and that sort of thing. So, presuming everything went smoothly, that drill bit should have reached that area where they want it to reach.

Now we're just anticipating and looking to hear the word if indeed that hole reached the cavity where they suspect these miners are trapped and of course, what will happen then is they will drop -- they say they've got the camera, the microphone equipment, everything ready to go, and after that it would only take a few short minutes to drop that through the hole. And what will happen is is that camera and that microphone will start letting out a beeping sound, if you will, and you can imagine where these guys are, it's incredibly dark, so they won't see a camera drop in where they are. It'll drop off a beeping sound. They'll know to huddle around that and if they are alive, and they can talk and they're in any kind of condition to talk, they will be able to start communicating with that, and they'll be able to let these miners know that they are on their way.

Bob Murray has also said that all of this drilling, if they are alive, they should have been able to hear it coming toward them. So, you know, and at some point they'll also be able to send in machinery and microphones that will let them -- the miners try to communicate with them. So, very anxious moments right here for many of these family members waiting to hear word -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Hey Ed, presuming that they already have answers, one would imagine they probably would sit down, just out of respect and courtesy and tell the family first before they brief news reporters like ourselves, right?

LAVANDERA: Oh, absolutely. And that's the way it's been going the last several days. Bob Murray and company officials, they go to the school where the families have been gathering. They give them the briefings first and then Mr. Murray returns here to where we are and essentially gives everyone who's been following this story so closely, the update.

And of course, if things are moving as quickly or slowly as they might be at this point -- it's hard to say -- this is a very fluid situation, as you might imagine and people are -- if there is bad news, that might take a little bit of time. Actually, just looking over here to the side, Bob Murray has just arrived, so we anticipate he will be stepping up to the microphones here shortly -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Arrived in what form? Is he still in his car, is he walking around, because that might give us some answers as to whether we should hang tight before and see if he's going to brief the media. What can you tell us before we go to a break here -- Ed.

LAVANDERA: You can see him right behind me stepping out of his car. He's been driving himself around where we -- between the school and this mine location and going up to mine. So, he is just stepping out of the car, right now. And it's about a 25 to 30-foot walk to where the microphones will be.

Now, whether or not -- he's not necessarily going in that direction, but obviously he's talking to some folks there, and getting miked up to go to over to the podium. So, I think it'll just be a few moments before he does that.

And of course, as I mentioned, Rick, he had been going down and speaking with the family members and spending some time with them as have various officials from across the state, the governor, the senator, here from Utah as also been meeting with these families, so you know, I'm trying to detect a little bit from his body language what he might be read to...

SANCHEZ: Yeah, but you know, it's always tough to do that because you know, it puts us in a situation where we're trying to read people and you know, you're just as easily wrong as you are right. So, let's just do this. Let's just stay with this, Ed, if you can with us here -- go ahead, Ed, you were going to say?

LAVANDERA: No, no, I'm sorry, I was just going to explain that basically there's an R.V. here that the sheriff's department has set up. So, he's gone around it. You'll be able to see him from our other vantage point, here, shortly.

SANCHEZ: Now, who's briefing him? Who's bringing the information to him from what they've been able to decipher from this drilling project that they have been -- going there -- Ed.

Reporter: I've gotten the sense from him and hearing him talk that he's been involved in getting close up to where the mine location, where that digging is going through. So, obviously, that is on top of the mountain surface where they continue to work their way down and there are teams there who are passing along the necessary information to him.

And, obviously, as you've seen Gary Tuchman reporting over the last 24 hours, he you know, had been taking people into the underground part of the mine, where that heavy-duty work is really going on and that is the work that will take them a week to actually physically take them out, whether or not they're alive or they're dead. But of course, all hope, right now, hinging on this 2-1/2 inch hole, and hoping that it gets close and will at least start providing some answers for some incredibly anxious families that are awaiting word.

SANCHEZ: Hey Ed...

LAVANDERA: I wasn't able to detect any kind of body language from him. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, let's do this. Just from a programming note for our viewers. We're going to go ahead and try to sneak in a break, here. You're going to there. We're going to stay with this picture. Should anything happen, we'll dump out of the break, we'll come back, we'll bring you this briefing as it happens here as to the fate of these miners that have been trapped there since Monday. We're going to be right back. We will bring this as it happened. Once again, stay with us.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here OUT IN THE OPEN, bringing you the very latest information. We expect now that there might be some new information coming to us. At least all signs seem to be pointing in that direction. We saw Robert Murray coming out just moments ago they usually go inside that particular vehicle you see right there -- that might be him coming. Let's check in with Ed Lavandera and he'll kind of bring us up to date just before Mr. Murray starts to talk.

Ed, what do you know?

LAVANDERA: Hi Rick, I think Mr. Murray will expand on this, but we're hearing word that that smaller drill is going a little smaller slower than expected and it now looks like it'll be closer to midnight or early Friday morning by the time they get any kind of answers. So, as we've been mentioning, you know, all of this is very fluid and it just depends on how this drill works and based on what we're being told by some officials and a quick little readout here from what Mr. Murray might be reading from, that that process is taking a little bit longer...

SANCHEZ: Well Ed, let me stop -- Ed, let me just stop you right there. If that's the case, what are the chances, from experts that you've spoken to out there, that these guys would still be alive?

LAVANDERA: Well, Mr. Murray has been saying there is enough oxygen and water to keep them alive for a decent amount of time. All of that, of course, can change, as well. But right now he seemed very confident that as these two smaller drills were coming in from the surface of the mountain top, that they can get closer to him and they will continue to be able to work toward...

SANCHEZ: Ed, let's listen in. Let's listen it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...I know that we have done that. I just came back from a meeting with the families, and it was a very positive meeting. Again, we had two miners that are family members, these individuals are experienced miners. One's father is trapped underground and the other miner's brother is trapped underground. One of these miners is an active member of a mine rescue team, so they're very knowledgeable about mining and mine safety and mine rescue. They have been very instrumental in meeting with the families and helping communicate to them the rescue activity.

They've been underground to see the operation, and they've also been on the surface to see the drilling operation. The presentation that we had this evening, the majority of that presentation was presented by those two individuals. I think it has been worth a million dollars to the families to have that participation and involvement, and also the media that we took underground to take pictures and also the pictures up at the drill rig.

We've shown those pictures to the families and again, the saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. It's helped them understand what we are doing, the resources that we've pulled together, here, the plan, the details of the technology that we're using. And I think it's been good, it's helped us come together as a team and to be unified.

Certainly we've had the county, the sheriff, supporting us in every way and back up and assistance and helicopters and transporting equipment. The state, the governor of this state, has assisted in many ways in providing services and support. The mine operator, the personnel, the equipment, the people working underground, tremendous effort is being put forth. And the Federal Mine Health and Safety Administration, MSHA, we have approximately 50 people here on site that are Mine Safety and Health professionals. Technical experts out of our Pittsburgh center that are experts in ground control, mine ventilation, the listening devices, all of the different technology that we're bringing together, here. A lot of these experts are coming from the Federal Mine Health and Safety Administration.

So, I feel positive that we've got a strong team and we have a tremendous amount of resources, here. And at this time I would like to introduce another member of the team, an individual that has worked hard to advance Mine Health and Safety. He cares about miners and he cares about their families, Senator Orrin Hatch.

SEN ORRIN HATCH, UTAH: I'm very grateful to the state and federal leaders who have come here to help us with this very serious problem. You can't get any better. Mr. Stickler here and Mr. Strickland and the others, the 50 others that here from the -- from MSHA, it's a class act and class group. And we're very grateful to all of them. And we in Utahans feel very deeply about this. Grateful to our governor and for the work that he's doing in getting our folks in the state who are some of the best in the world here.

And we're grateful that the efforts have been going forth in a way that seems to be arriving at a conclusion some time in the next 24 hours, and certainly we hope maybe earlier.

And I'm grateful to be here. Our hopes, our faith and our prayers are with these miners and their families. We know this is a terrifically difficult thing. Through most of my life I've had some contact with miners. And I have to say that we're proud of our miners. We're proud of these people who provide the energy for our country. I'm proud of our federal workers and our leaders like Mr. Stricker, here, soft-spoken, but very, very knowledgeable, willing to go in those mines themselves, willing to do the things that really need to be done.

And above all, I'm proud of the rescue workers that are risking their lives to get in under very difficult circumstances with these seismic events and doing the job and helping our people. We're grateful for all of you and we're grateful to be here and we will do everything we possibly can to help.

GOV JIM HUNTSMAN, UTAH: I want to thank Senator Hatch for being here, for his leadership and his friendship. And I too want to pay tribute to Richard Stickler for his professionalism of his teams, for the hard work and the very critical oversight that is occurring, here.

I just want to say very quickly that I had a chance as governor of this great state today to attend mass service with some of the great families that are right down the road awaiting word on their loved ones.

And it was one of these situations under the leadership of Bishop Wester of the Catholic Diocese where all boundaries seemed to fall. It didn't much matter what language was spoken or one's ethnicity. Everyone came together as one with a strong sense of hope and optimism which always must be kept alive.

I just really want to take this opportunity to thank a couple of people. There is an event that is playing out right now. There is a C-17 Air Force plane on its way to Salt Lake. The call was made earlier today to the state of Mississippi. And I want to thank Governor Haley Barber for his kindness in releasing the C-17 cargo plane. That turnaround, based on what the experts have told me, was done with unprecedented speed and alacrity.

The C-17 left Mississippi, it landed in Kansas where it's now picking up a truck which was driving -- otherwise would have been here in two or three days, with some of the most sophisticated high- resolution camera technology that is available in the United States. The plane left Kansas...

SANCHEZ: All right, that's Governor Huntsman of Utah. He's one of two politicians -- prominent politicians, of course, long time Senator Orrin Hatch, you saw there moments ago, as well. The governor is explaining a new process they're going to use where they're going to have one of those C-17, much like a C-130 bring in some cargo. We'll get more specifics on what the new plan is in just a moment as we stay on top of this breaking news story for you here.

Again, we've got Ted Rowlands on the ground, we've got Ed Lavandera, we've got more crews, we've got some experts lined up. If anything at all develops on this story, we'll be all over it for you. Stay with us, we'll be right back.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're following breaking news, now. There's an expected development now in the case of those six miners that have been trapped underground for a major part of this week. We've got Ed Lavandera, we've got Ted Rowlands, but standing by following this story for us.

We heard from Ed Lavandera, just moments ago, in fact, the progress of that small drill, isn't going as fast as they expected. Let's go to Ted, now, so see what he's been able to learn.

Ted, I think you might have some new information for us? Is that right?

ROWLANDS: Yeah, we just talked to Al Davis from the safety organization, the Mine Safety and Health Association and he just got out of that briefing and said it's good news, the drill hole is getting very close, we're very hopeful, but, "it's not time to be relieved just yet." So, it sounds as though they are not there with the 2-1/2 inch hole, but they are very, very close. And he said the families are very hopeful and all in all still upbeat. So, the news they were hoping for, they haven't gotten it yet. It looks like an extension of this excruciating wait to find out whether or not there is life inside that mine.

SANCHEZ: So really, I mean, those viewers who are now joining us and haven't really been involved in the particulars of this story, as we watch, once again, some of the first pictures and identifications we've seen of some of these miners. There, you have Manuel Sanchez, we told you about him yesterday. The other two, Kerry Allred, Carlos Payan and Brandon Phillips.

The idea is that there may still a chamber down there, really like an enclosed cave underground where these miners may be. And hopefully with this small drill they'll go down there and either using a camera or a listening device or ping device, they'll be able to somehow identify whether or not they're there. Right? Is that what they're trying to do? ROWLANDS: Basically, looking, yes, for signs of life with this very small hole. They also have another hole that's being drilled that should be there sometime tomorrow, much larger hole 5-5/8. They'll be able to actually put a camera in there for sure and get a better view, a 360 view, but for right now, this is what these families were hoping for, was some news, some sign of life inside that mine. They're going to have to wait a little bit longer, according to Al Davis.

SANCHEZ: Ted, I'm just going to interrupt you because we understand Robert Murray's at the microphone, now. Let's go ahead and dip into him a little bit and find out what he's saying.

ROBERT MURRAY, MURRAY ENERGY: Grief has befallen the families of these fine American citizens, the trapped miners. Grief had befallen the families of these trapped miners to which we have exhausted every possible effort to administer to their every need and make their trauma as minimal as possible.

I learned something else in this four days so far, it's about you, it's about the media. Some of you out here have been out here as long as I have. You look better than I do, but I know, maybe the people on the other side of the camera don't know, but I've seen the dedication out of some real professionals out of here, and while I don't have a hat, it goes off to you.

You have really stayed with this and that is one of the reasons why I arranged for you to go underground last night and to go up on the mountain and get your pictures. I will arrange for my cameraman to go underground tonight and take more pictures. I would appreciate if would you just let him go alone this time. It's much simpler and I've not cleared it with the Mine Safety and Health Administration. And I'm going to continue to focus on the recovery. I need to focus more there. Things are happening very rapidly now, and I am spending a little bit less time with the families, and I'll be spending a little bit less time here.

I'll be available in each meeting to answer your questions, but I need to be with the people who are actually conducting the recovery and making sure that all of our decision and recommendations are the best that we can make. At this time I'll turn the meeting over to Rob Moore.

SANCHEZ: Robert Murray, there, CEO of the company, obviously very affected by this. He's been dealing with this for quite sometime, now. He takes this all very personally. It's more than just a business for him. Took our own Gary Tuchman and a few others, last night, underground to show them exactly what these caves look like. And now says, as you heard, that he's going to be getting or providing some more video, but he really does seem to be breaking down almost, having a real tough time just talking to reporters without his voice cracking.

By the way, those are some of the pictures that we had from last night from the scene. Let's check back in with Ed Lavandera when we come back in just a little bit. In fact, there's Ed, now. Ed, what do you got for us? I was told you might have some new information.

LAVANDERA: Hi Rick, just to kind of give a sense, if anyone's been following in great detail, the numbers that they're dealing with here. Let's just break down the drilling that that 2-1/2 inch hole has to go through. We were told earlier today that it needed to travel about 1,869 feet, as of 6:30 Mountain Time, 8:30 Eastern, that drill had gone about 1,730 feet, so it still has almost about 140 feet left to go. That is the latest number that we've gotten, that's from about 6:30, about 25 minutes ago...

SANCHEZ: Ed, how long would that take. Ed. Ed, how long would that distance take given the rate they've been going at now? Obviously, we don't want, you know, anything precise, but you've been following the story for awhile, what's your best guess and what are the experts telling you?

LAVANDERA: Well, at about noon they had about 400 left to go, and they had said that that would take about six hours. So, clearly there might be, you know, some tough material to go here -- some tough rocks to go though, and all of this could change at any moment.

So, you know, this last 140 feet, and the release here, talking about how they hope -- this 2-1/2 hole drill can only go straight down. It's hard for them to control. So, that's why there's also a little bit of hesitation to get overly optimistic about this situation, because if this -- it is very possible that this drill misses the cavity area where they suspect these miners are. The wider one, the eight-inch drill, they have the ability to navigate it a little bit, so if the feel like, you know, they're off, they need to go to the right or the north or south or whatever, they can navigate that one a little bit better.

SANCHEZ: Hey Ed, there's something we just caught, here. In fact, one of our producers just mentioned to me that they were parsing the words that Mr. Murray was using, and at one part he referred to this not as a "rescue," but as a "recovery." You and I, from covering these things, know that usually when they use the word "recovery" that means that there may be some fatalities down there. It's very different from trying to rescue people. Was that a slip of the tongue? Is there anything you, following this, can read into that? Or should we not make a big deal out of it?

LAVANDERA: You know, after having spent a good portion of yesterday afternoon with these families, I think, that are going through this. I'm not even going to get into the game of going through that because I know from what many of these families have -- or some of these family members have told me -- and Manuel Sanchez's family had told me -- that one of the hardest things through all of this is they're alive one moment, they're dead the next, they're alive one moment, they're dead the next, and that roller coaster really takes its toll. So, we'll give, perhaps, Mr. Murray the benefit of the doubt, right now. He told us earlier today that he was losing his voice, clearly a man who is very tired. And you know, and maybe, you know, he just said what he said and you know, it's kind of a dangerous game to get into.

SANCHEZ: I think we get it. I mean, he's obviously very stressed out about everything that he's been going through here, and it's a very personal thing for him. This is a man who began as a miner, started this company, has obviously had his ups and downs in the past and his battles both with politicians and members of the media.

Trying get a sense now, if we can, Ed, of what the timing is going to be on this, given the explanation you were giving us a little while ago, it sounds like this going to be more of something that's going to take several hours, maybe even pushing it into part of tomorrow morning, wee, early part of the morning, right?

LAVANDERA: Right, it's almost 7:00 here, Mountain Time, 9:00 Eastern, and we're told that sometime around midnight Mountain Time, 2:00 a.m. Eastern Time where they anticipate the rest of that 140 feet will have been dug through and perhaps they'll have a better indication then.

Hey, by the way, we're looking at pictures now, that we at CNN have been showing throughout the course of the day. That's actually where Mr. Murray took our own Gary Tuchman inside. How far is that, just to get some perspective, here? How far is that underground area from where the miners are? Do you know, Ed, more or less, again?

LAVANDERA: You know, it is -- you know, the numbers escape me off the top of my head. I apologize, but that is that area that is completely separate from these two drill holes that are being done on top of the mountain. That's the really nitty-gritty work that being under done -- done underground, pardon me, and that is the area from which these miners will eventually be brought out alive or dead and, but that will take -- that's what will take some time. Mr. Murray has been saying that that is very dangerous, very treacherous work, it's very slow work. That will take some time into next week and that's why these two drill holes are being done through the top of the mountain are so crucial, not only to establish communication, but that food and water, as well.

SANCHEZ: We're just going to have to wait and see. We thank so much, not only you, Ed Lavandera, for hanging in there, you know, Gary Tuchman has been out there, as well, following the story. I understand he didn't get a lot of sleep last night, and Ted Rowlands, as well.

As we live you, if we can, Will, let's go ahead and put up the pictures of some of these miners who are down there. We just received those as we were going on the air, today. We'll go though them one more time.

There's Carlos Payan; Kerry Allred, 58 years old; Sanchez and Phillips. We'll see you in just a little bit. LARRY KING LIVE starts right now.