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INSIDE AFRICA

Kenya Peace Talks; Political Cartoonist Speaks on Kenya's Recent Troubles

Aired March 6, 2008 - 12:30:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FEMI OKE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Femi Oke. Welcome to INSIDE AFRICA, your weekly window to the continent. On the program this week -- from bitter adversaries to partners. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan gets Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga to sign a power- sharing agreement. But will it work? Also ahead, we hear from Kenyan political cartoonist Gado about his work and the impact Kenya's recent problems have had on his cartoons.
The power-sharing deal between Kenyan's president and top opposition leader is raising hopes that the worst is finally over for Kenya. The agreement creates a prime minister position, which opposition leader Raila Odinga is expected to fill. David McKenzie sat down with Odinga to discuss the way forward.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Odinga, thank you so much for joining us. There were two days of negotiations, and then they were suspended, and then just 48 hours after you had a deal. What pushed it through?

RAILA ODINGA, KENYAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I was actually -- put it down to the finesse of Dr. Kofi Annan as an accomplished diplomat. I think he used all the tricks in the book to achieve these results. But it's true that the talks were dead in this. He decided to suspend them and to take them a notch higher, involving the principals.

MCKENZIE: Why did the government concede on this? There was no sign that they were going to concede on a quick resolution to a constitution. What was the single thing that -- that convinced them that they had to do this now?

ODINGA: There are vested interests who felt that the resolution would somehow shortchange them. And they're the ones who are putting a lot of (inaudible). President Kibaki alone, without his people, of course, sees things very differently. And it didn't take much persuasion from the other for him to see that this was the only way for it. And if that's (inaudible) that he exercised statesmanship and refused to be dragged in the opposite direction by those forces.

MCKENZIE: How do you expect to work with President Kibaki after you accused him of stealing this election?

ODINGA: Well, after the fiasco which was caused by the electoral commission, which has been appointed solely by the one side, there was of course a lot of acrimony (ph), anger and protests by our supporters because they felt that they cheated. But that does not stop this (inaudible) from sitting to talk together.

What we've done is to make a compromise so that the country can move forward. (inaudible) stalemate, and the country could not move at all. We, our supporters, some of them, believe that we have given a raw deal, that it was better no bread than half the loaf. But we're saying that (inaudible) able to carry out reforms that this country needed.

I think that we can work together. I think that the release of a sizable (ph) element on the other side, which is much more accommodating, much more realistic, which combining together with forces on the other side can drive this agenda forward.

MCKENZIE: How do you heal from the ground up?

ODINGA: People are hurting. Quite a number have been displaced. Many have lost relatives. Many have lost their jobs, others their houses and (inaudible). I want them to know that there is a future here, that Kenya is greater than all of us. I think there's hope that we can work together for the benefit of this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: Up next, the U.S. government calls Kenya's agreement a poster step forward. We'll check in with U.S. State Department correspondent Zain Verjee, who covered the violent political crisis on the ground. Also ahead, Kenyan political cartoonist Gado gives us his take on recent events in Kenya.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making headlines in Africa this week. A Nigerian tribunal has upheld last year's disputed presidential election results. The panel says the case, filed by opposition leaders, was, quote, "plagued by a lack of evidence". International observers called the election that brought Umaru Yar'Adua to power deeply flawed. Opposition members say they'll appeal the ruling.

Starting May 1st, the South African government will allow elephants to be culled for the first time in 13 years. The environment minister says culling has become necessary to control the ever growing elephant population. But promise is, there will be no wholesale slaughter. The ban was enacted in 1995 when South Africa's elephant population was about 8,000. There are now more than 20,000 elephants. Animal rights activists are threatening to launch international tourism boycotts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: Hello again. You're watching INSIDE AFRICA. The U.S. government is hailing the power-sharing deal between Kenya's president and top opposition leader. The assistant U.S. secretary of state for African affairs says and I quote, "We are very excited. We believe this is a critical step towards the legitimate governance of the country." End of quote.

U.S. State Department correspondent Zain Verjee covered Kenya's violent political crisis for several weeks. She also happens to be Kenyan, so she knows the country very well. We got her perspective on the new power- sharing deal between President Kibaki and Raila Odinga.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAIN VERJEE, U.S. STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: My sense really is that it's the international pressure brought back here on this difficult situation that really made the breakthrough. I think former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan deserves a huge amount of credit for leading Kenyan leaders up to this point. It was a very difficult situation, Femi. He was constantly frustrated. It was an uphill struggle, but he made it clear: I'm not leaving until there is a deal.

Now, he was helped by the United States and other western governments that backed him, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice herself over the last few days increasing the pressure, and the U.S. rhetoric saying you have to make a deal and there is absolutely no excuse to delay.

I think also that Kenyans themselves, the civil society, the Kenyan people have put a huge amount of pressure on this situation. So I think to an extent, this was an African solution for an African problem, but international pressure and international fear that this could deteriorate further did help.

OKE: So, Kenya is going to get a coalition government. Will that work?

VERJEE: Well, it's difficult to say, but the hope is, is that because there is a process, that it can work.

Now, Raila Odinga and Mwai Kibaki have made deals before. They've made a coalition -- deals for coalition government in the past, and they've not worked. So that there is a lot of mistrust, there is a lot of bad blood and animosity between the two sides. There is, though, the chance that it would work, Femi, because there is real power sharing here. Raila Odinga does have executive powers under this deal, and he can't be fired by the president.

OKE: If you look at the pictures that we've seen this week of Raila Odinga, Kofi Annan, President Kibaki all together, agreeing, it's an amazing picture. What's the mood that you've picked up from Kenyans back home?

VERJEE: Well, it is amazing. And Kenyans back home, and Kenyans here, myself included, are heaving a huge sigh of relief just by seeing the two of them sit together, being amicable and signing something that vital to the country's future.

I think people are still said, though, Femi, still really upset and in disbelief as to what's been happening since the December elections. The economy has been in free fall. There has been no investment in the country. People are really hurting, you know, in terms of even tourism, which is a key source of income for many Kenyans. There is so much poverty in the country that Kenyans today are just saying we hope that Raila Odinga and Mwai Kibaki can work this out and work together, because they really need it.

OKE: There always seems to be some kind of drama on the lead-up to a Kenyan election, but this one was out of all proportion. But if you look back at past elections and how long it's taken for Kenya to get back on its feet, back to normality again, for the economy to kick back in, what do you estimate that time span will be? Have we done so much damage that it could be a year, two years?

VERJEE: I think it could be that much. Many Kenyans that I've spoken to, both in business as well as in the tourism sector, say that it would take at least one to two years for Kenya to recover from this. I mean, we have a really ugly image out there now. You know, so, there is a perception problem as well, and the leaders are going to work very -- have to work very hard to be able to rebuild that, to bring people back to our country and to give Kenyans themselves the same kind of pride that used to exist.

OKE: And on a personal note, because we have that wonderful insight that you have from talking about your home, talking about home politics. If you look back at the last two months, how do you sum that up, Zain?

VERJEE: Really devastating on a personal level, because Kenya is a country that I've been so proud of. My family has lived there for more than 100 years. That's really all we know. And to see it go up in flames in front of our eyes and turn on the TV and talk to people, there was just a certain disbelief that this was actually happening.

At the same time, I'm really confident, Femi, that -- the Kenyan people are resilient and positive. It's going to take a very long time to heal these sorts of wounds, if at all, but I think that Kenyans want that to happen. I think that we'll also probably a little bit, you know, putting our heads in the sand and not really facing major issues between tribes that existed, and preferred to look the other way.

So, this has really forced it, and the thing is that if this agreement is actually carried through, there will be major land reforms that will redistribute the inequalities that many believe have existed.

So, it's very sad for all of us, but we're just very relieved that that power sharing deal has finally been struck.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: That was CNN's Zain Verjee.

Coming up on INSIDE AFRICA, how well can a government led by former bitter rivals function? I'll ask a political scientist, who has been keeping his eye on Kenya.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making business news in Africa this week. South Africa had announced a plan to ration electricity to cope with its energy crisis. Under the plan, commercial users will have to cut consumption by 5 to 20 percent. Private customers will have to cut their usage by 10 percent. The crisis has already forced major gold mining companies to scale back production.

Eskom, the state-owned electricity company, recently received a multibillion-dollar government loan to build more power plants, but they're not expected to come online before 2011.

And Zimbabwe's Central Bank may soon have to print new currency again. The country's soaring annual inflation rate has reached 100,000 percent, according to government figures from January. The official annual inflation rate stood at 66,000 percent a month earlier. Food and fuel shortages helped drive prices even higher.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: You're watching INSIDE AFRICA. Welcome back.

Now, not everyone is optimistic that the new power-sharing agreement between Kenya's president and top opposition leader will succeed in the long term. Our next guest falls into that category. Patrick Basham is the founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with the Cato Institute.

PATRICK BASHAM, DEMOCRACY INSTITUTE: I think this coalition government, this agreement that's been signed, represents the triumph of hope over experience. There's a reason there was a, you know, there was a government party and an opposition party that had very different platforms. They don't agree on very much. So, what has happened now in Kenya is there's been a suspension of reality, and, as with all grand coalition agreements such as this, both sides have pretended that they actually don't have these fundamental disagreements.

And as important as the disagreements, perhaps more important than the disagreements that are held by President Kibaki and who we presume to be the next prime minister, Raila Odinga, are the disagreements -- to put it politely -- held by their supporters. I mean, this violence hasn't come from out of the blue. It comes from historical grievances. It comes from very recent grievances. There's literally hatred between many of their respective supporters.

OKE: One of the issues that resurfaced in the last couple of weeks, and, in fact, it's an ongoing issue in Kenyan politics, is land reform. Can an issue like land reform be solved with the coalition government, perhaps?

BASHAM: In a word, no. The problem with coalition governments, especially such grand coalitions as this one in Kenya, is that they rarely, if ever, reach agreement on any of the major issues. They may reach agreement on minor, relatively trivial issues, but there tends to be simply a stand-off and a stalemate in terms of true reform.

What happens as a result of that is that the voters on both sides get very frustrated, because they begin to appreciate that they're not being presented with a choice anymore between government and opposition. Both major players, in this case, two major parties, are actually in the same government. So I think there's -- there's a democratic loss. You could say it's antidemocratic, in a sense, these kinds of arrangements, because the government is no longer held accountable.

OKE: What would you do with this situation then? How would you solve it?

BASHAM: Well, your question suggests that the problem is solvable. And I think that it is unlikely in the short to medium term that this problem can be solved, because we're not just talking about political differences. We're talking about differences that have their roots both in economics -- you touched on land reform -- but also, you know, in tribal disputes and grievances.

And so, I think the best one could hope for, realistically, is a dampening of violence and a commitment on both sides to engage in the kind of campaigning and electioneering next time that would see a vote take place that both sides and the international community could agree was as free and fair as was reasonably -- as could be reasonably expected in Kenya at this time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: And that was Patrick Basham, director of the Democracy Institute.

Now, after the break, Kenyan cartoonist Gado gives us his thoughts on the unrest that swept over his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GADO, CARTOONIST: I think one -- the job of any cartoonist is to provoke thoughts, is to discuss issues, and it's not necessarily about what is wrong and what is right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OKE: Good to see you again. You're watching INSIDE AFRICA.

The work of Kenyan political cartoonist Gado is well known to newspaper readers throughout his country. Naturally, Kenya's political crisis has been a recurring theme in his recent work. I had a chance to speak with him on the very day the power-sharing agreement was signed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GADO: It has been a very difficult time, I suppose, to everybody, and also to myself as a commentator. Because normally, as a cartoonist, you draw all these crises from afar, and it's always sometimes very easy. Because, you know, yes, you read and you follow news, and you know, there's a problem in Darfur and there's a problem in Somali, and I've always commented on these issues, and sometimes arrogantly so. But, you know, this time around, I was also caught, you know, as part of the crisis, and so it was very difficult.

OKE: Let's set the scene for one of your cartoons. I love this one. This one is with Odinga and President Kibaki having a discussion, and underneath them having a discussion is President Kibaki holding some puppet strings with the judges on the end of the puppet strings.

GADO: It wasn't actually published in the newspaper, I think because of the tensions, which were -- that were around at that particular time. My editors felt that probably we, you know, let's -- let's not put it out there. But it was published on my Web site.

There was also, you know, because of what happened, there was an issue of just, you know, the media itself, you know, censoring quite a lot of things. I think editors felt that sometimes it's, you know, they -- they didn't want to publish their particular articles for right reasons.

So I personally -- I think I was also a bit frustrated. Some of my cartoons were never published.

I must emphasize, you know, some of these cartoons I did because at that particular time nobody, you know, thought that we'll get to where we are today. And so, I did a cartoon about Kibaki's, you know, surname (ph) as a lame duck president the very day he was -- he was sworn in. I think it was withdrawn probably the last minute. But it appeared, you know, on the net. And so it went around, and so that was one -- probably the very first. And it was, I think, it was published in the newspaper in London, in "The Guardian" of London.

OKE: The two main political players in Kenya right now, Raila Odinga, President Kibaki -- how are they to draw? How do you like to draw these pictures?

GADO: They're gorgeous. Most of the time, I think the two -- I don't need any references to draw them. I always, you know, sort of like I've drawn them for so long that I always, you know, like have them with me in my head, and it's very easy to draw them, especially President Kibaki. Because he's -- he's fun to draw. His eyes -- and because he's bald- headed, so it's very easy to identify him.

Most of the time, it's also his posture. You know, he has this in a way a little bit laid-back kind of posture. And so that's always easy in my cartoons. You know, you can always, you know, always see how you -- how you draw him.

And with Raila, it's -- because he's more energetic and more forthright, and, you know, more talkative of the two, I also draw him with all these flamboyant and, you know, shots and, you know, African attires. And so people can always, you know, identify him as that, you know, that's Raila.

OKE: Have you met either of those two politicians?

GADO: No. I normally try to avoid politicians. I -- I -- and I find them quite interesting. You know, so most of the time I don't really have, you know, any burning desire to -- to meet them. But I always enjoy sort of like watching them.

OKE: How nervous do you make your editors feel? What's your relationship with them?

GADO: It's an interesting relation I have, because most of the time they feel that I'm insensitive and that -- some of the cartoons are very strong and -- but that doesn't -- doesn't concern me, because I think one of the job of any editorial cartoonist is to provoke thoughts. It's to discuss issues, and it's not necessarily about what is wrong and what is right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OKE: And that was Kenyan political cartoonist Gado, who instantly at the end of our chat said it was a shame I wasn't a politician, as I had a great face for caricature. So he picked up his pen, and two minutes later, I'm a cartoon. Hey, I'm just lips and hair.

I don't look like that, do I?

Be sure to watch INSIDE AFRICA next week as we'll be on assignment in Lagos, Nigeria. We'll bring you that special we've been promising on the explosion of mobile phone use around the continent. I'm Femi Oke.

Until the next time, take care.

END

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