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Still No Winner Projected in Indiana; Sen. Barack Obama Can Claim North Carolina; Obama Addresses Supporters in North Carolina

Aired May 6, 2008 - 21:00   ET


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We have not been able to project a winner yet in Indiana, although we do show that she remains ahead in the actual vote that is coming in. We're waiting for some more counties to start reporting before we can project a winner in Indiana.
We don't know how much longer that will take. But at some point tonight, Hillary Clinton will be speaking to her supporters in Indiana, as well and Indianapolis. Once she starts speaking, we'll go there live, as well.

A night -- a very important night, two important states that we've been watching. North Carolina going for Barack Obama. Indiana still up in the air -- too early for us to project a winner, although she does remain ahead of the actual votes that are being tallied. We'll go back to those two headquarters once they start speaking.

Campbell Brown is still here with the best political panel on television.

What a night. A lot of passion out there. And it looks -- assuming she does stay, manage to hold onto the lead in Indiana -- that this will be what they call that split decision, which will set the stage next week for West Virginia.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I know. And let's talk about that, moving forward.

Give me kind of a look ahead, you guys, and tell me what you expect over the next couple of weeks.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think conventional wisdom, Campbell, is that they could split these remaining six contests. That she wins West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico; that Barack Obama wins Oregon, South Dakota and Montana.

So, as John King has shown you on his map, that doesn't really move the ball a lot for her.

BROWN: We know we're going to hear her talk a lot about Florida and Michigan over the next couple of weeks.


BROWN: But beyond that, do you think the debate is going to change at all? And by that, I mean what they're focusing on. For example, the last couple of weeks it's been all about the gas tax -- her push that we're going to get a break from the gas tax over the course of the summer. And that really seemed to resonate for her, you know, constituency, if you want to call it that, those working class voters.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Perhaps it did, perhaps it didn't. I mean her margin -- if you think Indiana is demographically somewhat similar to Pennsylvania and Ohio, it looks like she will do slightly worse in Indiana than she did in Pennsylvania and Ohio. So maybe the gas tax thing didn't work that well.

I give her credit for raising an actual issue. This isn't about somebody's minister or somebody somebody knew 30 years ago. She had a policy proposal that she raised and it was the focus of the debate. Good for her.

BROWN: Let me throw this back at you, though. This is one from our exit polls tonight on the economy -- still the top issue for most people. And the people who said that they are hurting economically went for her -- well, the majority of them did.

TOOBIN: That's her constituency -- older, poorer people who have a problem with how the economy is going have been her core supporters and they remain her core supporters. I don't see any dramatic change in the dynamic coming up in any way. I think we know who's generally supporting which candidate.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I wouldn't be surprised, going into West Virginia, if you see this whole issue of poverty sort of take center stage as well, in terms of comparing what's happening in that state to what's happening inner cities across the country, as well. Education is also one of the issues.

West Virginia, when you begin to think about Reverend Jackson's campaign in '84 and '88, he sort of talked about Appalachia, trying to connect the dots between what people had -- what's happening in that kind of state and the inner city. That's going to be a key, as well.

And so I think coming out of tonight, if Obama wins in North Carolina and she wins Indiana, depending upon the margin, I think you're going to see him begin to fashion a more economic message targeting the general campaign. She's going to stay dead on in terms of pushing it as far as she can.

BROWN: More of a populist message, maybe...

MARTIN: Well, no...

BROWN: ...because that's -- that's what she has done, certainly.

MARTIN: Well, look, you can say populist. You can say let's channel John Edwards if you want to. I think he will not be as populist, I think, as she has been. He'll still stick with this whole notion of let's -- let's change Washington, let's simply not just throw stuff out there until they get you excited.

Now, will it connect?


BORGER: Well...

MARTIN: One doesn't know. She's strong on that area. He's not. He still wins the nomination. If he goes up against John McCain, it's different story. He may be like a populist next to John McCain come November.

BORGER: But he needs...

BROWN: But, you know, the gas tax thing reflective...


BROWN: ...don't you think, of sort of their broader themes -- her being the populist -- or trying to be right now -- and him sort of being the truth teller, making a more sophisticated argument that may not sell as well with the...

BORGER: Right.

BROWN: ...with the people who wanted to hear I feel your pain.

BORGER: You know, the original argument that he started out with -- change -- is a wonderful argument and it clearly caught on. Hillary Clinton then became the candidate of change, also, as did John McCain, I might add.

But in a bad economy, when people feel threatened, the notion of change is kind of somewhere up there. And what they want to know is how are they going to survive. And so that argument works.

And the mark of a good candidate is being able to adjust and turn around a little bit and adjust your argument. And I think we're going to see him doing that. And I think we should have seen him doing that a little bit earlier than he did. But he was diverted...

TOOBIN: But I think it's also...

BORGER: ...because of Reverend Wright and everything else.

TOOBIN: It's also worth -- the saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

MARTIN: Right.

TOOBIN: I mean he is winning so far. He appears to be heading toward the nomination. The idea that he should somehow retool his message now strikes me as preposterous.

BORGER: No, no, no. Not -- not change his message in a way...

MARTIN: Well, he...

BORGER: But he needs to put some meat on the bones. He needs to do that a little bit.

TOOBIN: I think, actually, you know, there have been policy proposals all along. But the core message is change, a different kind of politics. And I think he's going to live or die with that, because that's who he is.

MARTIN: And when you say change, I mean you can't talk about how you change the direction of the economy. Look, I agree with Gloria to a certain extent. His goal is, look, after tonight, you know you've got to split the states up. His focus is going to be, I think, more of John McCain and less Hillary Clinton.


MARTIN: She has to do more work to get the nomination than him.

BROWN: All right guys, listen, we want to go check in now with John King, because it's been about an hour-and-a-half since the polls closed. We have still not able to call Indiana. We're still waiting on some numbers to come in.

John, explain to us what's going on in Indiana right now.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, as we look at the map of Indiana, most of the light blue is Senator Clinton. So it certainly advantaged Clinton over the swath of the state.

But the reason we have not called it -- and let's first give you the bottom line. Almost 70 percent of the vote in. Senator Clinton is holding a 53 percent to 47 percent lead. But that margin has come down a little bit as the votes have come in.

And here's the missing link at the moment. And I want to pull this down a little bit to make this significant point.

Here's Chicago. These are suburbs of Chicago and very close communities to Chicago in Lake County, Indiana. You have Gary, Indiana; Hammond Indiana -- a significant African-American population in Gary and throughout this county, a county that is expected to go for Barack Obama. We have nothing. Zero votes counted in there yet. So, we want to see that, because it is a place -- one of the most Democratic counties in the state, second only to down here in Marion, in terms of the number of Democrats available.

So Barack Obama is expected to do well here. We have no votes yet so we don't know the turnout. We don't know the margin, based on an early count. So we're being cautious waiting for their votes.

Over here, too, in LaPorte County, it's a smaller county, only about 2 percent of the state population. But it is a Democratic county, as well. It votes Democrat in the general election. No votes there. And we want to see -- and, again, if you look at this margin statewide, Senator Clinton has a 42 plus 10, so a 52,000 vote margin. We're still waiting for a sizable amount of the vote, still 27 percent of the vote not in in Marion County, which is Indianapolis, the biggest population center in the State of Indiana. And, as you can see, Barack Obama is beating Senator Clinton there, 66 percent to 34 percent.

So more votes to make up in this area here. As we pull out the map, Senator Clinton is winning in most of the rural counties. But I just want to pop on a couple randomly to make the point that they are very small. They're not population centers. And in most of the areas where Senator Clinton is doing well, this is what you see when you look at the bottom line -- a hundred percent of the vote counted.

So in most of the areas where we expect Senator Clinton to do well, the vote is in, Campbell. In places where we expect Obama to do well, still counting votes here, still waiting for votes up here. And if there's one surprise of the night -- or at least a battleground in an area where both candidates had a constituency base that has been with them in the past, this is St. Joseph County, South Bend, the home of University of Notre Dame. Obama does well with college students. Senator Clinton has done remarkably well with Catholics out on this campaign. In St. Joseph County, Indiana, advantage Obama -- a small advantage, but an advantage nonetheless.

And as every campaign looks for little things to talk about going forward, you can bet the Obama campaign will say see, we may have a problem with Catholics, but we have a reason to be optimistic and we can build from here -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, John, thanks very much.

John is going to continue to crunch these numbers over there and see what's going on.

We'll watch these counties that have not yet started to report in Indiana. And hopefully, at some point, we'll be able to project a winner in Indiana.

Right now, it seems to be tightening a little bit, but Hillary Clinton remains on top based on the actual votes that are coming in, though, once again, we have not been able to project a winner in Indiana.

A very different situation in North Carolina. When the polls closed there at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, almost two hours or so ago, we immediately projected Barack Obama would be the winner based on the exit poll numbers that we had received. A very decisive win for Barack Obama in North Carolina.

These are live pictures you're seeing now from Obama headquarters in Raleigh, North Carolina, because momentarily, the Democratic presidential frontrunner will be speaking to his supporters, as he always does on the nights of these major contests.

Hillary Clinton will be speaking to her supporters in Indianapolis at some point later, presumably after the results show whether or not she is the winner in Indiana tonight. We'll be watching all of this very, very closely, both of these speeches. These candidates also know, they want to speak at prime time, especially on the East Coast. A lot of people are watching television right now. This is a good chance for them to have themselves -- to introduce themselves to potential voters out there, not only remaining Democratic primary voters, but also voters down in November, as well, assuming one of these two Democrats -- and we have to assume that -- is the Democratic presidential nominee.

There you see Barack Obama and his wife Michelle walking into the building in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Anderson Cooper is watching this, together with the best political team on television -- welcome, Anderson.

We've got still a lot of stuff to do tonight before this night is over with.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, many, many hours, yes.

As you watch Barack Obama and Michelle Obama come out, Gloria, what do you think moving forward?

And earlier with Campbell, you were talking a little bit about retooling his campaign or changing any kind of a message.

What do you think he talks about tonight?

What do you think he talks about moving forward?

BORGER: I don't think he does that tonight. I think he -- I think he talks about change. He talks about coming back. He talks about having had a rough couple of months, but that the campaign is going to endure and heading toward the nomination.

I think he probably -- well, Indiana hasn't been decided, or I'll he would have congratulated Senator Clinton on Indiana, once it gets decided. But I...

COOPER: Does he continue to do -- I mean we've seen a number of smaller campaign events in the last week or so...

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: ...him meeting individually with people, him meeting with very small groups of people.



COOPER: We've seen Michelle Obama out on the campaign trail with him for the first time in quite a while. Their daughters were out on the campaign trail.

Is there more of that, of trying to reintroduce Barack Obama to the public?

MARTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. He has to reframe who he is. I mean he understands that he cannot allow other folks to do that. But I think, also, what you're probably going to hear tonight is that, look, we weathered the storms. We see the divisions in America. This proved tonight that we can get over our divisions.

COOPER: Barack Obama is about to begin speaking.

Let's listen in.




OBAMA: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

OBAMA: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you, North Carolina.

Thank you. Thank you.


OBAMA: Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.


OBAMA: Thank you, everybody.

Thank you. Thank you.


Thank you.

Thank you, North Carolina.


OBAMA: Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

I love you back. I truly do.


OBAMA: I want to thank Kim Winns (ph) for that wonderful introduction, to the outstanding members of the North Carolina Congressional delegation, who supported me through thick and thin... (APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: ...the dean, Representative David Price and his wife, Lisa.


OBAMA: Congressman Mel Watt, Congressman G.K. Butterfield.

Thank you so much.


OBAMA: To James Oblinger, chancellor of North Carolina State University...


OBAMA: Wolf pack (ph).


OBAMA: To the state, county and local elected officials in attendance, to the North Carolina Democratic Party, and, most of all, to my North Carolina volunteers, who worked so hard...


OBAMA: This is your victory.


OBAMA: You know, there were those who were saying that North Carolina would be a game changer in this election. But today, what North Carolina decided is that the only game that needs changing is the one in Washington, D.C.


OBAMA: I want to start by congratulating Senator Clinton on what appears to be her victory in the great state of Indiana. I want to thank all the people -- I want to thank all the wonderful people of Indiana who worked so hard on our behalf.


OBAMA: The people in Indiana could not be finer. They worked tirelessly. And I will always be grateful to them.

I want to thank, of course, the people of North Carolina.


OBAMA: I want to thank them for giving us a victory in a big state.


OBAMA: In a swing state, in a state where we will compete to win if I am the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.


OBAMA: You know, when this campaign began, Washington didn't give us too much of a chance. But because you came out in the bitter cold and knocked on doors and enlisted your friends and neighbors in this cause, because you stood up to the cynics and the doubters and the naysayers when were up and when were down...


OBAMA: ...because you still believe that this is our moment and our time to change America, tonight we stand less than 200 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination for president of the United States.


OBAMA: More importantly, because of you, we've seen that it's possible to overcome the politics of division and the politics of distraction; that it's possible to overcome the same old negative attacks that are always about scoring points and never about solving our problems. We've seen that the American people aren't looking for more spin, they're looking for honest answers about the challenges we face. That's what you've accomplished in this campaign and that's how, together, we intend to change this country.


OBAMA: This has been one of the longest, most closely fought contests in American history. And that's partly because we have such a formidable opponent in Senator Hillary Clinton. Tonight...


OBAMA: Tonight, many of the pundits have suggested that this party is inalterably divided, that Senator Clinton's supporters will not support me and that my supporters would not support her. Well, I am here tonight to tell you that I don't believe it. Yes...


OBAMA: Yes, there have been bruised feelings on both sides. Yes, each side desperately wants their candidate to win. But, ultimately, this race is not about Hillary Clinton. It's not about Barack Obama. It's not about John McCain. This election is about you, the American people.


OBAMA: It's about whether we will have a president and a party that can lead us toward a brighter future. This primary season may not be over, but when it is, we will have to remember who we are as Democrats, that we are the party of Jefferson and Jackson, of Roosevelt and Kennedy. And that we are at our best when we lead with principle, when we lead with conviction, when we summon an entire nation to a common purpose and a higher purpose.


OBAMA: This fall, we intend to march forward as one Democratic Party united by a common vision for this country, because we all agree that at this defining moment in our history -- a moment when we are facing two wars, an economy in turmoil, a planet in peril, a dream that feels like it's slipping away for too many Americans, we can't afford to give John McCain the chance to serve out George Bush's third term. We need change in America. And that's why we will be united in November.


UNIDENTIFIED SUPPORTERS: Yes we can! Yes, we can! Yes we can! Yes, we can! Yes we can! Yes, we can! Yes we can! Yes, we can! Yes we can!

OBAMA: The woman I met in Indiana who had just lost her job, lost her pension, lost her health insurance when the plant where she had worked her entire life closed down, she can't afford four more years of tax breaks for corporations like the one that shipped her jobs overseas. She needs us to give tax breaks to companies that create good jobs right here in the United States of America. She can't afford four more years of tax breaks for CEOs like the one who walked away from her company with a multimillion dollar bonus. She needs middle class tax relief of the sort I've proposed -- relief that will help her pay the skyrocketing price of groceries and gas and college tuition. And that's why I'm running for president of the United States of America.


OBAMA: The college student I met in Iowa who works the night shift after a full day of classes and still can't pay the medical bills for a sister who is ill. She can't afford four more years of a health care plan that only takes care of the healthy and wealthy, that allows insurance companies to discriminate and deny coverage to those Americans who need it most. She needs us to stand up to those insurance companies and pass a plan that lowers every family's premiums and gives every uninsured American the same kind of coverage that members of Congress gives themselves. That's why I'm running for president of the United States of America.


OBAMA: The mother...

UNIDENTIFIED SUPPORTERS: Yes, we can! Yes, we can!

OBAMA: The mother in Wisconsin who gave me a bracelet inscribed with the name of the son she lost in Iraq, the families who pray for their loved ones to come home, the heroes on their third and fourth and fifth tour of duty -- they can't afford four more years of a war that should have never been authorized and should have never been waged. They can't afford...


OBAMA: ...four more years of our veterans returning to broken down barracks and substandard care and they don't want to see homeless veterans on the streets. They don't want to see veterans waiting years to get disability payments or having to travel for hours and miles just to get treatment. They need us to end a war that isn't making us safer. They need us to treat them with the care and respect they deserve. That's why I'm running for president.


OBAMA: The man -- the man I met in Pennsylvania who lost his job, but can't even afford the gas to drive around and look for a new one. He can't afford four more years of an energy policy written by the oil companies and for the oil companies, a policy that's not only keeping gas at record prices, but funding both sides of the war on terror and destroying our planet. He doesn't need four more years of Washington policies that sound good but don't solve the problem. He needs us to take a permanent holiday from our addiction from oil by making the automakers raise their fuel standards corporations...


OBAMA: ...corporations pay for the pollution and oil companies invest their record profits in a clean energy future. That's the change we need. That's why I'm running for president of the United States of America.


OBAMA: The people that I've met in small towns and big cities across this country understand that government can't solve all our problems, and we don't expect it to. We believe in hard work. We believe in personal responsibility and self-reliance. But we also believe that we have a larger responsibility to one another as Americans, that America is a place, that America is the place where you can make it if you try. That no matter how much money you start with or where you come from or who your parents are, opportunity is yours if you're willing to reach for it and work for it. If the idea...


OBAMA: It's the idea that while there are few guarantees in life, you should be able to count on a job that pays the bills, health care for when you need it, a pension when you retire and education for your children that will allow them to fulfill their God-given potential. That's the America we believe in. That's the America that we know.

(APPLAUSE) OBAMA: This is the country that gave my grandfather a chance to go to college on the G.I. Bill when he came home from World War II, a country that gave him and my grandmother the chance to buy their first home with a loan from the FHA. This is the country that made it possible for my mother, a single parent who had to go on food stamps at one point, to send my sister and me to the best schools in the country on scholarships.

This is the country that allowed my father-in-law, a shift worker, a city worker at a water filtration plant in Chicago, to provide for his wife and two children on a single salary.

Now, there's a man who was diagnosed at the age of 30 with multiple sclerosis, who relied on a walker to get himself to work. And yet every day, he went and he labored and he sent my wife and her brother to one of the best colleges in the nation. And when he talked about his job, he expressed that it was important not just because it gave him a paycheck, but because it described his dignity, his self- worth, his self-respect. It was an America that didn't just reward wealth, but it rewarded work and the workers who created it. That's the America I love. That's the America you love.


OBAMA: That's the America that we are fighting for in this election.


OBAMA: Somewhere along the line, between all the bickering and the influence pedaling and the game playing of the last few decades, Washington and Wall Street have lost touch with these core values, these American values. And while I honor John McCain's service to his country, his ideas for America are out of touch with these core values.


OBAMA: His plans for the future, of continuing a war that has not made us safer, of continuing George Bush's economic policies that he claims have made great progress, these are nothing more than the failed policies of the past. His plan to win in November appears to come from the very same play book that his side used time after time in election after election.

Yes, we know what's coming. I'm not naive. We've already seen it -- the same names and labels they always pin on everyone who doesn't agree with all their ideas. The same efforts to distract from the issues that affect our lives by pouncing on every gaffe and association and fake controversy in the hopes that the media will play along. The attempts to play on our fears and exploit our differences, to turn us against each other for political gain, to slice and dice this country into red states and blue states...


OBAMA: collar and white collar, white, black, brown, young, old, rich, poor.


OBAMA: This is the race we expect, no matter whether it's myself or Senator Clinton who is the nominee. The question then is not what kind of campaign they will run, it's what kind of campaign we will run.


OBAMA: It's what we will do to make this year different. You see, I didn't get into this race thinking that I could avoid this kind of politics. But I am running for president because this is the time to end it.


OBAMA: We will...


OBAMA: We will end it -- we will end it this time not because I'm perfect. I think we know at this phase of the campaign that I am not. We will end this not by duplicating the same tactics and the same strategies as the other side, because that will lead us down the same path of polarization and of gridlock.

We will end it by telling the truth.


OBAMA: We will end it by telling the truth forcefully, repeatedly, confidently and by trusting that the American people will embrace the need for change, even if it's coming from an imperfect messenger. Because that's how we've -- that's -- because that's how we've always changed this country -- not from the top down, but from the bottom up.


OBAMA: When you, the American people, decide that the stakes are too high and the challenges are too great, the other side can label and name call all they want, but I trust the American people to recognize that it is not surrender to end the war in Iraq so that we can rebuild our military and go after al Qaeda's leaders.

I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness but wisdom to talk not just to our friends but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did and Kennedy did and Truman did. I trust the American people to realize that while we don't need big government, we do need a government that stands up for families who are being tricked out of their homes by Wall Street predators, a government who stands up for the middle class by giving them a tax break, a government that insures that no American will ever lose their life savings just because their child gets sick. Security and opportunity, compassion and prosperity aren't liberal values. They're not conservative values. They are American values and that is what we're fighting for in this election.

Most of all, I trust the American people's desire to no longer be defined by differences, because no matter where I've been in this country, whether it was in the corn fields of Iowa or the textile mills of the Carolinas, the streets of San Antonio or the foothills of Georgia, I found that while we may have different stories, we hold common hopes. We may not look the same or come from the same place, but we want to move in the same direction, towards a better future for our children and our grand-children.

That's why I'm in this race. I love this country too much to see it divided and distracted at this critical moment in history. I believe in our ability to perfect this nation, because it's the only reason I'm standing here today.

I know the promise of America because I've lived it. Michelle has lived it. You have lived it. It is the light of opportunity that led my father across an ocean. It's the founding ideals that the flag draped over my father's coffin stand for. It is life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's the simple truth I learned all those years ago when I worked in the shadow of all those shuttered steel mills on the south side of the Chicago; that in this country, justice can be won against the greatest odds. Hope can find its way back from the darkest of the corners. And when we are told that we cannot bring about the change that we seek, we answer with one voice: Yes, we can.

So -- so, North Carolina and America, don't ever forget that this election is not about me or any candidate. Don't ever forget that this campaign is about you. It's about your hopes. It's about your dreams. It's about your struggles. It's about your aspirations. It is about securing your portion of the American dream.

Don't ever forget that we have a choice in this country, that we can choose not to be divided, that we can choose not to be afraid, that we can still choose this moment to finally come together and solve the problems we've talked about all those other years in all those other elections.

This time can be different than all the rest. This time we can face down those who say our road is too long, that our climb is too steep, that we can no longer achieve the change that we seek. This is our time to answer the call that so many generations of Americans have answered before, by insisting that by hard work and by sacrifice, the American dream will endure.

Thank you. Thank you, North Carolina. May God bless you and the United States of America. Thank you. Thank you.

COOPER: Barack Obama, you have been listening to him speaking in North Carolina where he has won the primary. The race in Indiana, actually, seems to be tightening up right now. Hillary Clinton ahead with 52 percent, Barack Obama 48 percent; 73 percent of precincts reporting. John King, as you listen to that speech, there's a lot of new wording in the speech, a lot of new message. How do you see that speech?

KING: It was a candidate who clearly has his confidence back. It was a candidate who clearly believes this is over. Yes, there are more contests to go, but North Carolina was not the game changer Senator Clinton needed in the view of the Obama campaign. He was talking very much like a general election candidate, talking to those who voted against him, saying we may not look alike; we may not be the same color, but we share the same hopes. Reaching out to the people who have not voted for him and talking about the general election, how much he loves this country.

Talking about the flag. Essentially serving notice, this is the first speech of the general election. You Republicans want to come after me? Let's go.

COOPER: He said, in fact, during this speech, Gloria Borger, we know what's coming. We know the attacks that are coming against us.

BORGER: Right and he was trying to inoculate himself against many of those attacks in the speech. I totally agree with John. I think this was almost like an acceptance speech. He was telling us about his biography more. When you talk to people in the campaign lately they say, you know, what Barack Obama has to do is talk more about who he is and where he came from and why he loves this country and why he owes everything to this country. And that is exactly what we heard tonight.

And he also said that he is an imperfect messenger. And it's clear that that was sort of a nod to the folks who disagree with him about how he handled the Reverend Wright controversy, about his comments about a bitter people in rural America clinging to guns. He said, you know, I'm not perfect but I love this country too much to give up the fight.

COOPER: Roland Martin, you've heard a lot of these speeches. This speech was different?

MARTIN: Absolutely different.

The top portion of the speech was totally about economics. But I also got he was speaking directly to those disaffected Democrats by saying, you had better vote your interest come November. He kept harping on this whole issue of -- he made the point that we don't need big government, sort of reminded me of Bill Clinton in 1992 saying, the era of big government is over. He said we have to have government that stands up for families.

But he kept talking about, again, put your differences aside. You cannot have John McCain giving George Bush a third term. So it was very clear he was bringing an economic message to those voters, saying you need to be with us as Democrats if you want to see America change in November. COOPER: We should also point out to our viewers, we are expecting Hillary Clinton to be speaking in Indianapolis. We will bring that to you live, as well.

Jeffrey Toobin, it was also interesting -- I want to hear your thoughts. It was also interesting just the stage craft of the whole event. The last time, the fact that they had three young guys with Abercrombie and Fitch shirts in the back got a lot of play. This was basically all white women, and if that message wasn't lost on anybody, there was a sign saying "Women for Obama."

TOOBIN: And middle age women, somewhat older women.

COOPER: I wanted you to be the one saying that.

TOOBIN: I'm sorry. But fine looking middle aged women, who are --


BORGER: Keep going, Jeff.

TOOBIN: Right. On another subject, I'd like to just inject a note; it seems like there's a lot of Obama triumphalism here tonight. He hasn't won the nomination yet. I think there might be some people here who think that this was a little bit too much of a general election speech. One point that we have not perhaps emphasized enough is that the super delegates can vote for whoever they want and they can change their mind. So Hillary Clinton's -- yes, her window is getting smaller, but she's not lost this race yet. And I think it is important to emphasize that on a night where she may well win Indiana and she's going to pick up a bunch of delegates.

KING: He is right. Jeff is absolutely right and the Clintons don't know the word quit. It is not in their lexicon. However, you look at that Indiana margin right now, 52-48, still a quarter of the vote to come in. The vote that is out is in places that Obama is expected to do well. He would have to have phenomenal math to pull it out, but he is likely to get closer. And so what Hillary Clinton lost tonight is not only the state of North Carolina and a big margin in Indiana, she lost part of her big argument to super delegates, which is that this guy is weak and getting weaker as the race goes on.

Jeff is absolutely right and some people will say, whoa buddy, not yet. But the fact is that Barack Obama has reason to have his confidence back tonight because the psychology of the race is convincing the super delegates to take it away from Barack Obama essentially. And nothing happened tonight to give Hillary Clinton more ammunition than that argument.

BORGER: Also, I think what we're going to have to look at is raising money from here on. It is going to be very difficult for her. After her Pennsylvania win, she raised 10 million dollars on the Internet in a night. That was money that fueled her to go on. And I think they're going to be needing a lot of money to compete in the upcoming six contests. And it's hard to raise money if people don't think you can win.

TOOBIN: If I can simply add, she said she raised 10 million dollars the next day. Those figures have not been released yet. A note of skepticism on that.

MARTIN: He had to give this kind of speech to move beyond the last three weeks. He has to target John McCain. He has to make Senator Hillary Clinton secondary. I know he hasn't won it yet, but he has to put more of his emphasis on McCain. That's what the speech did.

COOPER: Seeing the speech on television is one thing. Actually hearing it in the auditorium is something else. Candy Crowley was there.

Candy, how did it play there? What are your thoughts?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it always plays well when you have your supporters and a lot of these are people who have knocked on doors for past several months. Look, this was a convention speech tonight. This was his argument to the super delegates; here's how I can win. Here's what this is about. This is a turning of the page. This is a new -- to use that horrible word -- a new paradigm. This is what the country is about.

And the other thing about it is that this was an expansion of what he's been saying on the trail since the Reverend Wright kind of returned to the scene, and that is do you want to know who I am? Do you want to know what's inside me? And he ticks it off. This is what we have heard on the campaign trail; I am the son of a woman who was on food stamps. I am the grandson of a man who went to college on the G.I. Bill. This is who I am. I love this country.

You would be surprised, Anderson, how many times in these town hall meetings, he gets asked about the patriotism. He gets asked about the flag pin issue. So this is Barack Obama reintroducing himself after really six weeks of other people redefining him. It's what he's been doing on the ground here in North Carolina and in Indiana and it's what he's doing tonight to a much broader national audience. This was definitely a super delegate speech.

COOPER: Candy, you have been hearing a lot of speeches. Is it relatively new for him to be talking about America so much, to be talking about the flags, to be ending each speech with "God Bless America?" Is that part of the normal stump speech or is this something that's evolved recently?

CROWLEY: It's not been recently. There's been more of it. I will say that. There's been a heavier emphasis. What they knew they had to do watching the reoccurrence of Reverend Wright, if you will, is they knew they had to come back and have him define himself again. He's talking a good deal more about where he came from and his background. He is sort of spinning off a remark that he almost has had from the beginning, which is, listen, that a guy named Barack Obama can get this far tells you something about the American dream. But now he expands on what that American dream is. So it's a much more expanded version of what he used to do. That much is true. And he's much more about those meat and potato issues, if you will, about school loans. He talks about how he just only -- not that long ago that he got rid of his student loans. So it's an attempt to say I am not this exotic person that you seem to think I am, that some have questions about. I am one of you. I know what your hopes are because they were my hopes. I'm living the American dream. I want to give it back to you.

So it's been a kind of a snowball sort of thing for him. He has talked about it before, but now he talks about it much more extensively and this tonight, obviously, the length of this speech was the longest I have heard him talk about these things.

COOPER: Candy Crowley reporting from the scene where Barack Obama has just given a speech in North Carolina, thanking all his supporters and moving on. This race no doubt goes on no matter what happens in Indiana. We're watching the race very closely in Indiana right now. It is getting tighter.

Let's go to Wolf Blitzer for the latest on that.

BLITZER: Anderson, thanks very much.

Let's take a closer look right now in Indiana right now. Barack Obama in his speech just a few moments ago suggested that Hillary Clinton appeared to be on the verge of winning in Indiana. She hasn't done it yet. We have not been able to project a winner in Indiana; 75 percent of the precincts have reported. Senator Clinton's gap has narrowed somewhat; 52 percent for Hillary Clinton to 48 percent for Barack Obama.

We're going to be taking a much closer look to see when's going on in Indiana right now. Once again, three quarters of the precincts have reported, 488,000 votes for Clinton, 449,000 for Barack Obama. What, about 40,000 votes or so difference right now. John King is standing by. We're going to go there shortly to take a close look to see what's going on.

You can, by the way, go to and you can see what's happening online, as well, see those counties report the information. Here you can see the counties in Indiana right now. The light blue are counties where Hillary Clinton is ahead. The darker blue where Barack Obama is ahead. The uncolored counties where the numbers haven't started to come in yet.

And you take a look all the way to the northwestern part of the state, on the border with Illinois, not far from Chicago, that's an area that Barack Obama is expected to do very well in. We'll see when those numbers come in if he can narrow that gap, 52-48 percent right now. Remember, you can see what's going on.

We're standing by to hear from Hillary Clinton. She's in Indianapolis. She is getting ready to address her supporters. We'll of course bring you her remarks live. All that and a lot more coming up from the CNN Election Center right after this.


BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN Election Center. Barack Obama the winner in North Carolina tonight decisively. Still too earl for us to be able to project a winner in Indiana. This race seems to be tightening right now. John King is watching this about as closely as anyone. You know, for hours now, we have been saying we can't project a winner, even when Hillary Clinton was ahead by, what, 15, almost 20 points. It's now narrowed to four points, 52 to 48 percent, with 78 percent of the precincts reporting.

KING: In a word, Wolf, wow. Indiana has tightened up a quite bit. You see through the swathe of the state, the light blue is Senator Clinton. She's winning most of the state, but Barack Obama is doing well in the population centers. Marion County is where Indianapolis is, 14 percent of the state population. Almost fully counted there, 94 percent of the vote in. But look at that, 67 percent to 33 percent.

Remember that. He is likely, if that margin holds, to cut into her lead a little bit more. What does he need to do? Look, moving as we go, up to 78 percent now. And he needs -- that's less than 35,000 votes, fewer than 35,000 votes. And one of the places he can get those votes, Wolf, is right here, Lake County, very close to Chicago, where they know Barack Obama well. A significant African-American population in the city of Gary and throughout Lake County. It is a solid Democratic county, one of the few Democratic counties in Indiana. Again, eight percent of the state population.

If turnout is high here, and Barack Obama wins by a good margin in this area, again, close to his home base in Chicago, that is a place where he could narrow the gap significantly.

Over here in Laporte County, it's much smaller, but this is another Democratic county, a place Barack Obama is going to have to get. He's winning over here in Catholic St. Joseph County. Senator Clinton won this county. Barack Obama needs to get big numbers here and we have no votes here. This is why we've been so cautious all night long, because that is a critical Democratic base area right here. Should be a good place for Barack Obama.

And if you go through the rest of this, just for point of reference, these are the smaller, rural counties where Senator Clinton is winning and winning by big margins. But look, they're not very populous, 4,000 votes, 4,600 votes, and the vote is in, 100 percent of the vote in in this county, 95 percent in in this small rural county.

Let's just keep ticking around, 100 percent of the vote in here. As you go through the smaller, rural areas where Senator Clinton is winning by big margins, almost all of her vote is counted, Wolf. So we're going to watch Bloomington, the college town; IU is down here. Pretty small, two percent. But with almost a quarter of the percent of the vote in, look at that, there's a place where Barack Obama can make up several hundred if not a few thousands of votes in there if those margins continue. So we're waiting for the full count here. We're waiting for the full count here. And the biggest outstanding vote is right up here in the northwestern corner, again, an African-American base, close to Barack Obama's home base of Chicago. If nothing else, he has a very good opportunity to shrink that lead. A big win for Barack Obama in North Carolina. But it looks like it will be a very close state here in Indiana.

He has a mathematical chance. He needs about 55 percent, our analysts say, of the outstanding vote to win the state, to come up with this big upset. If nothing else, Barack Obama making Indiana closer than many people thought it would be.

BLITZER: It's fascinating too to see how this unfolds. Our viewers, by the way, can do this at home. They can go to and follow these results coming county by county in Indiana, where the race has become pretty dramatic and explains why for the past couple of hours, we have not been able to project a winner in Indiana. We'll watch it closely with you. Seventy eight percent now reporting, 52 percent for Clinton, 48 percent for Obama, about 30,000 vote difference. We'll see what's going on.

We'll take another quick break. Much more of our coverage coming up. Remember, we're also waiting to hear from Hillary Clinton. She is getting ready to speak to her supporters in Indianapolis. We have heard from Barack Obama. Once Hillary Clinton starts speaking, you are going to hear her remarks, as well.

We'll be right back.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody.

Indiana's still too close to call, but that doesn't mean we can't take a closer look at some of our exit polls. Bill Schneider is helping me out on this evening. Rush Limbaugh, as you well know, told his listeners that they should vote for Hillary Clinton. It's one of the questions on the exit poll we were able to take a look at. What did you see?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we had Republicans who could vote in the Democratic primary in Indiana. Anyone can vote in the primary. How did they vote? Well, they voted for Hillary Clinton, just the way Rush told them to, not by a very big margin, however; 53 percent for Clinton, 45 for Obama, two percent for other candidates. So, yes, they voted for Hillary Clinton. But you know what? They were only 11 percent of the voters.

O'BRIEN: Not very many of them.

SCHNEIDER: That's right.

O'BRIEN: In fact, far more independents who could also vote in this. How did they vote? SCHNEIDER: The independent voters far outnumbered the Republicans and they voted just the opposite, 53 percent for Barack Obama, 47 percent for Hillary Clinton. And they mattered more than the Republicans did because they were 23 percent of the voters. The Republicans were only 11. So the independents who came out to vote for Obama trumped the Republicans who voted the way -- most of them voted the way Rush Limbaugh told them to.

O'BRIEN: Trumped them by a lot?

SCHNEIDER: A lot, a lot more voters.

O'BRIEN: Bill Schneider, thank you very much. Let's throw it back to Anderson Cooper. Anderson?

COOPER: Soledad, thanks very much. We are here. We have a couple new members of our panel. David Gergen joins us, as well as Leslie Sanchez, a Republican strategist. Also, by remote, we -- who do we have? Lanny Davis is joining us, a Hillary Clinton supporter. Lanny, thanks for being with us.

Lanny, let me start off with you. We haven't heard from you tonight. Your take on Barack Obama's speech earlier?

LANNY DAVIS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: You haven't heard from me tonight. And I'm not sure -- I'm not sure you want to hear from me tonight but --

COOPER: We heard from Paul Begala. This is your big chance.

DAVIS: Well, actually, I don't think we heard very much from Paul Begala. We did here an awful --

COOPER: All part of the conspiracy against Hillary Clinton I suppose.

DAVIS: Right. So that's why I'm not sure I have very much to say, other than I'm proud of my candidate. I think that she has once again reminded people, if she wins in Indiana, that she's going ahead of certainly Barack Obama. Predicted he would win Indiana. Not one person on your panel said that tonight. And she also believes that we should follow the rules.

And Barack Obama is going to have to explain why he opposed allowing Michigan and Florida to revote to follow the rules. And we, Clinton supporters, still believe that Senator Clinton is speaking to the economic issues of blue collar voters, and that's why she is still carrying the Democratic party's base that every candidate has to carry.

Having said that, I was very inspired by Senator Obama's speech. I think he won a great victory in North Carolina. I'm very proud of the way he reached out to the entire country and certainly his graciousness towards Senator Clinton and those of us who support Senator Clinton. And I do admire Senator Obama a great deal. I do believe Senator Clinton would be the better president. COOPER: Jamal Simmons, Obama supporter, just want to give you a chance to respond.

JAMAL SIMMONS, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Sure. I know Lanny's a little agitated but it's going to be a good night for Clintons in North Carolina, it looks like -- I mean in Indiana, it looks like. I think when you look at Barack Obama's speech tonight in North Carolina, what he showed is that he is really brining it together.

He used some great language. He said I trust the American people. He used that refrain over and over again. He talked about the America I love. He talked about that over and over again. He talked about the flag that was draped over his grand-father's coffin. It was a very patriotic speech.

COOPER: Clearly a response, you think, to the last several weeks of criticism against Barack Obama.

SIMMONS: Maybe it's a response to the last several weeks, maybe it's just who Barack Obama is and this is the moment where he feels like he's actually moving into the general election, and he's going to give back to these themes that have been taken away from him by events. Some of them were in his control. Some of them were out of his control. But I think now we're seeing the Barack Obama that we're going to see in the fall.

And some people have talked about this earlier, that he's no longer this transcendent candidate. I think when you get Barack Obama out of this primary, when he's no longer battling Democrat on Democrat in this campaign, I think you're going to see him take this campaign back to that level of elevation where we saw it before. I think people respond to that. We've seen that already right now with the numbers we just saw with Independents, 53 percent of Independents going with Barack Obama.