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NANCY GRACE

Mother Abducts Own 10-Month-Old From Hospital

Aired May 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news, Amber Alert, Orange County, California, a 10-month-old baby boy stolen from a local children`s hospital, kidnapped right under the noses of doctors, nurses and staff, the baby`s two sisters also gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 10-month-old being treated for pneumonia was abducted from his hospital bed last night. Police are searching for the alleged abductor, mother of the child, Ida Torres, who does not have custody, according to court records. The 33-year-old Torres was in the area visiting the 10-month-old infant, along with her 5 and 11-year-old daughters who were also allegedly taken by Torres. Police have issued an Amber Alert and are concerned for the infant`s illness and his need for medication. Police say Torres and the three children may be in a rented 2008 silver Chrysler Sebring (ph) and are possibly headed to Kentucky.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: Colleagues and bosses at a Washington state social services go all out to help a female co-worker stricken with a malignant brain tumor, only six months to live. They prepare home-cooked meals, donate their own sick days, topping it off by forking over $21,000 of benefits. But then the Grim Reaper never shows up. Why? She fakes it! Wonder if a judge and jury will buy it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social worker Sandra D. Martinez (ph) told her co- workers she had brain cancer. She even furnished detailed doctors` notes instructing her employer about the importance of time off. Prosecutors say the only thing sick about Martinez was her plot to steal from the state and prey on the good will of co-workers, Martinez busted after leaving a forged note on a neighbor`s printer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) been printed out on my computer by accident, I would have thought it was for real. I really would have. I mean, the looks (ph) -- the way she had it typed up, that she had the heading from the hospital, she had the doctor`s name, the ID, doctor`s ID, everything on there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A trusted social worker now facing charges of theft. Even so, prosecutors say Martinez still refuses to speak with investigators.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight, Amber Alert, Orange County, California, a 10-month-old baby boy kidnapped right under the noses of doctors, nurses, staff and family at a local children`s hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Alert issued for a child abducted from a hospital. Police say infant boy was being treated for pneumonia at the hospital when he was kidnapped by the child`s mother, who does not have custody. The baby`s father was talking to hospital staff when the 10- month-old and his two siblings were allegedly taken by 33-year-old mom Ida Torres, who put the children into a rental car and fled. Police are searching for the vehicle, a silver 2008 Chrysler Sebring. Torres, who is a Kentucky resident, may be taking the children back to Kentucky, while authorities are desperately trying to return the children home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Jo Kwon, reporter and producer with KNX radio 1070. Jo, the breaking news in this case, as we go to air, the baby has been found. How was it taken out of the hospital to start with?

JO KWON, KNX 1070: Basically, the father was checking up on his 10- month-old baby, seeing how he was doing. And he was in another room, and the mother went into the hospital room, took the baby, the 5 and 11-year- old sisters, and basically walked right out, walked right through a hospital hall and waited, looks like, for an elevator and...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Why is that kidnapping? Why didn`t the mom have custody of the baby to start with?

KWON: Well, she actually lost custody of the babies in December. And the father kept -- got the primary custody of all the children.

KWON: Why -- do we know why she lost custody?

GRACE: You know, they haven`t said that. Tried to check on that, but we couldn`t get...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: What does the hospital have to say? What does the hospital have to say?

GRACE: The hospital is keeping very quiet about this. The DA actually took over the case, so they`re keeping very quiet about it.

GRACE: Man, I bet they are! We are taking your calls live tonight. A baby boy taken right out from under the noses of doctors, nurses, staff and family at the children`s hospital there in Orange County, California. The mom, who did not have custody, gets into the hospital and takes the baby and the two sisters straight out. Nobody apprehended them. Very, very disturbing.

Out to Tony York. He`s the president of the International Association for Health Care Security and Safety. What about it, Tony?

TONY YORK, INTL. ASSOC. FOR HEALTH CARE SECURITY AND SAFETY: Well, Nancy, when you think about security in a hospital environment, it is -- unless we were told that she is not without custody -- and we don`t -- you know, we can`t stop her from coming in. It`s a very difficult and challenging thing to think we can have that type of absolute security.

GRACE: So what security measures should be in place?

YORK: Well, what you`re typically going to find is a good control of access. We`re going to know who`s coming and going, but not always is it going to be found that we`re going to have that control through electronics. It`s a lot of times going to be the staff. But again, it`s no system. We`re not talking about just fool-proof security measures that are going to be in place in these kinds of situations, especially if we don`t know that there`s some type of restraining order or there`s some kind of custodial dispute that the family would have told us about.

GRACE: OK. To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Excuse me, everybody, but when my twins were in NICU, neonatal intensive care unit, they checked out even me, who was coming from the end -- the other end of the hospital, when I was still in hospital in a wheelchair and a hospital gown. They had to make sure it was me before I could go in and see my own two kids.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely, Nancy. In fact, you know, regular hospitals, the security sometimes seems to be lax. But when you have a children`s hospital like this, there`s got to be some kind of access and control point as you come off the elevator, going into the ward. And right there by the nurses` station, you know, there should be some kind of secure doors. But apparently there wasn`t in this. and I`m really surprised that there isn`t because it is specifically a children`s hospital.

GRACE: Joining us tonight, Tony Rauckackas, the Orange County district attorney. Thank you so much for being with us, Tony. It`s a real pleasure...

TONY RAUCKACKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My pleasure.

GRACE: ... to have you with us. What charges is she facing?

RAUCKACKAS: Well, she`s facing three counts of child abduction and one felony count of endangering the child. So it exposes her to a possible eight years in state prison.

GRACE: Do we know or can we state why she didn`t have custody of the baby boy to start with?

RAUCKACKAS: Well, I know that there was a hearing and it was contested and that she lost that hearing. The judge gave custody to the father of all three children. And then it was after that that she moved to Kentucky with her -- to live at least for a time with her cousin, who was with her, by the way, at the time of the kidnapping.

GRACE: Was he driving the car, he or she, the cousin?

RAUCKACKAS: No, I don`t think he was. At least, we don`t have any reason to believe he was. I think that she was driving, and you know, at one point, he was talking to the Orange police on the telephone, and that`s how they located them. The Orange police got in touch with the New Mexico authorities, the state police there, and kept him on the phone talking, talking about his whereabouts, and then the New Mexico state police made the detention.

GRACE: OK. Tony, that makes a lot of sense. My next question is, why wasn`t the cousin charged? But now I understand. If not for the cousin, we may not have the kids back tonight.

I want to go out to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, prosecutor, Atlanta, Georgia, Mickey Sherman, defense attorney and author, New York, Carmen St. George, defense attorney, New York.

Out to you, Mickey Sherman. What about it?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, she clearly committed a crime and she`s wrong, but it`s not exactly a situation where she`s selling children or she`s trying to do harm. These are her kids. Granted, she doesn`t have custody. But then again, you got to take into account this is not a stranger abduction. She wanted to see her kids. She`ll be punished. I don`t think she`s getting eight years. I don`t think she`s getting a year.

GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. So let me see Sherman`s face right now, please. So your defense to kidnapping and endangering the children is she didn`t try to sell the baby. OK.

SHERMAN: No. She wants to be with her kids.

GRACE: That`ll hold up in court.

SHERMAN: She wants to be with her kids. I mean, that`s in the good column, isn`t it?

GRACE: Yes, yes, but so do kidnappers. They want to be the with the kids, too, all right?

SHERMAN: No, but these are her kids. These are her kids.

GRACE: OK, let me get a different slant on this. Eleanor Dixon, from my experience -- and let`s see, how long have I been practicing law now, about 20-something years -- long story short, when a mom loses custody -- I`m not going to ask Rauckackas this because he would have to comment on the facts of his own case he`s going to be handling. Eleanor, the mother basically has to be dressed in a thong, lying on the courthouse steps shooting up heroin to lose custody of an infant baby, much less the two sisters. This mom does not have custody. It was contested in court. She lost custody of her own children. This is a kidnapping, Eleanor. This is just as serious as any other kidnapping.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: In fact, it`s almost more serious because she doesn`t have custody. And the statistics show that most of the child kidnappings are done by a non-custodial parent. And I`m not surprised that the defense is just saying, Oh, she just wanted to be with her children. She didn`t have that right.

GRACE: Carmen St. George, what`s your best defense?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, Nancy, there`s got to be more than meets the eye here. I think that there`s a reason that she contested. She had visitation. Maybe there`s a -- best interests of the child that she needed the children to be away from the father. We don`t know that information yet.

GRACE: Well, the court ruled that she would not have custody.

Back very quickly to Tony Rauckackas. He is the elected district attorney there in Orange County. What type of visitation did she have? Did she have unsupervised visitation?

RAUCKACKAS: She had visitation every other week. It was unsupervised, two days every other week, right.

GRACE: Two days every other week. We`re taking your -- go ahead, Tony.

RAUCKACKAS: There is one issue that is not being brought up, and that is that, you know, this child needed medication. And she left with -- she took the monitors off of the child in the hospital and didn`t take any medication or any of those kinds of precautions, so she just took a sick kid out of the hospital.

GRACE: Didn`t the baby have, was it bacterial or viral asthma?

RAUCKACKAS: Yes. Yes. Which is pneumonia.

GRACE: Whoa! Taking the baby without its medication, unhooking it from all of the tubes.

Out to the lines. Martha in Tennessee. Hi, Martha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re the best.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pray that God blesses you and your twins every day.

GRACE: Thank you very much. That means a lot to me. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know if they saw on surveillance camera her leaving with the kids from the hospital.

GRACE: Back to Jo Kwon with KNX radio 1070. Did they capture on the surveillance video?

KWON: Yes. Actually, the video you`re seeing is from the hospital surveillance video. She basically walked out one hallway and looks like she was even waiting for an elevator right there. And several hospital staff or possibly guests saw her leave.

GRACE: Incredible. Nancy in New York. Hi, Nancy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God bless your twins!~

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look great. You look great, by the way.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. Of course, you`re only seeing me from the nose up. But thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, all Nancys look great.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: I`ll remember that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Nancy.

GRACE: What do you think about this one?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, how was it that they left her alone with this child? Where was the father? Where was the doctors? Why was she left alone? And how did she take the baby out of the hospital?

GRACE: You know, it`s incredible, Tony Rauckackas. I can understand the father allowing her to have a few moments alone with the child. The child is there with viral asthma, viral pneumonia, actually. But how did she just walk out with the baby just unhooked from all of the tubes and the monitors?

RAUCKACKAS: Well, I talked to the father about that, and what he said was that he went out to talk to some hospital staff about paying the bill. And he left that particular floor, and when he got back, the room was empty.

GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. What was she thinking?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, at the most basic level, this mother did not know how to mother. And unhooking the child from the tubes, leaving without medication probably represents the type of neglect and abuse that led to losing the kids in the first place.

Mothers who lose their children become obsessed with getting the child back, but the obsession is like taking back stolen property. It`s not out of compassion for the child. For instance, it`s not getting sober or complying with mental health treatment or CPS so they can earn the child back. They want to steal the child back because they view the child as property.

GRACE: You are seeing video taken from a hospital security camera of this woman taking an infant baby and the two little sisters from the hospital, unhooking the baby from the monitors, from all of the medical help the child was receiving, and taking it.

Breaking news tonight, the baby has been recovered. To Jo Kwon. Where was she with the baby?

KWON: She was in Albuquerque, New Mexico, at a rest stop. The cousin had returned numerous messages to the police officers, and they finally found them at a rest stop in Albuquerque, New Mexico, with the two sisters and the baby.

GRACE: How was the baby, Allie (ph)?

RAUCKACKAS: Baby Allie is just fine, and the other two kids also don`t seem harmed at all.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, viral pneumonia -- explain to me the repercussions of taking a child away from the medical treatment.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, viral pneumonia in a kid that`s serious enough to require hospitalization is a big deal. Kids have small lungs. They`re at risk. They can`t express themselves. And oftentimes, they need help of a ventilator or some extra oxygen. So it`s a big concern in a kid.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sharon in Michigan. Hi, Sharon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Bless you and your children, and thank you for helping the victims.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is -- if she just went to the hospital to get the baby, how did she get the other two children and take off with them, as well?

GRACE: Take a look at this video. She`s got the two little girls following right along with her. Bethany, I`m sure -- Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst with us. Bethany, I`m sure that the two little girls knew in their mind, Dad, we live with Dad. What would lead them to go along with their mom?

MARSHALL: I have no doubt that these two little girls have a long history of trauma and neglect at the hands of the mother, and they probably felt very guilty and very confused. And this mom`s very manipulative. I mean, she got a cousin to comply. She waited until the hospital staff turned their backs. And she somehow made the dad of these parents feel guilty enough that she finagled their way back into the child`s life, so she is a very powerful woman, and hopefully, not to be underestimated from this point on.

GRACE: And we also know that she still had visitation every other week. She had visitation for a couple of days. I don`t know. What about it, Tony Rauckackas? Did the little girls just go along because she told them to?

RAUCKACKAS: Well, I think so. They were at the hospital, of course, with their father. And you know, when he left for a few minutes, they were there with their mother and she took them out.

GRACE: To Mike in New York. Hi, Mike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. Great show.

GRACE: Thank you, love. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, why wouldn`t she be allowed to wear an ID bracelet?

GRACE: Interesting. To Tony Rauckackas. He is the elected district attorney there in Orange County. Why no ID bracelet? And a question. Don`t they have any sensors that alarm when someone from the hospital leaves?

RAUCKACKAS: Well, you know, those are good questions, and we haven`t really gone back to CHOC to look at their security.

GRACE: You know, Tony, when I was in the hospital with the twins, I think I had about five bracelets on. And the twins had theirs on their ankles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. Now, with babies, as any other disease, you always want to have a doctor monitoring them. And he was in only the second day of treatment, so he could have been in grave danger had they not found him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have found the 10-month-old baby abducted from his hospital bed last night. Police detained 33-year-old mom Ida Torres in Albuquerque, New Mexico, after receiving a phone call from Torres`s cousin telling them where they were headed. Torres was charged this afternoon with three felony counts of child abduction and one felony count of child endangerment. She`s facing up to eight years behind bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A baby boy kidnapped right from under the noses of doctors, nurses and hospital staff at Children`s Hospital, Orange County, California. As we go to air tonight, the baby has just been rescued. With it, the non-custodial mom. She did not have custody. She lost custody of the baby. She took the baby and the two sisters with her. There is the video there at the hospital of walking right to the elevator and leaving.

Back out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. You know, I distinctly recall -- as I said, in a hospital gown, I think I was wearing two or three of them at the time, in a wheelchair. I had been there 50 times. I would have to hold up the bracelet and confirm who I was before I could see my own two twins that were in intensive care. Now, why weren`t these children -- this little baby, with viral pneumonia, why was he not protected the way my twins were?

BROOKS: That`s a great question. And I tell you, they have a lot of explaining to do at that hospital, Nancy. It sounds like they have no layers of security whatsoever. And a lot of times, when you come into a hospital initially, you have some security there. You may even have to sign in. And then when you come the floor, you go through a nurses` station and have to sign in there again. There should be some kind of a security, but it looks like there was nothing.

GRACE: For children in general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have ended an Amber Alert after authorities located a 10-month-old infant boy and his two siblings at a rest stop in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The mother of the children is now in custody and faces eight years in prison on counts of felony child abduction and child endangerment. Thirty-three-year-old Ida Torres will face extradition proceedings in New Mexico, while the three children are now in state custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the surveillance video, it showed a man walking with her, who was believed to be her cousin. And the DA had been calling the cousin repeatedly. The police had been. And finally today, around lunchtime, the cousin returned the phone call. And from there, they found them at a rest stop in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Linda in Pennsylvania. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love seeing the pictures of the twins when you put them on.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got two other things. Where are our children safe? They can`t be in the hospital. They can`t be at school. They can`t be at college. And my second thing is, this hospital -- this baby was so sick, it had monitors and stuff on him. What happened when she disconnected those monitors that the nurses` station didn`t know that?

GRACE: Interesting question. To Tony York. He is the president of the International Association for Health Care Security and Safety. Aren`t those monitors supposed to be hooked up to something?

YORK: Yes. They`re going to be to a central control panel. And typically, you`re going to have a nurse who`s going to be in the general vicinity, but you can`t say for certain that she`s not going to be involved or he`s going to be involved with something else. But I don`t know how quick the response was, but I would have to imagine it was quite rapid.

GRACE: Well, we see them waiting on the elevator, going down the hall, and finally leaving. That`s kind of a slow response.

Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. And when we come back: Co- workers prepare home-cooked meals, donate sick leave, fork over 21,000 bucks in benefits because she has a brain tumor. But the Grim Reaper never shows up. Why? She was faking it!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When Sandra Martinez told co-workers she suffered from malignant brain tumors, people went out of their way to show support. Some even donated their sick days so she could take paid time off. Former neighbor Peggy Townsell also offered to help.

But then Peggy checked her computer and found a doctor`s letter Martinez apparently made up that stated she might only have six months to live. Peggy called Martinez`s employer, DSHS in Arlington. Prosecutors say there were several fake doctors` notes.

Martinez took more than $21,000 in paid sick leave. Martinez now faces first-degree theft charges for taking advantage of people who just wanted to help out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state of Washington, the taxpayers, are out their money, and this is unspeakable. We don`t -- I have no patience for that. So, we want to hold this person accountable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: She told co-workers she had an aggressive form of brain cancer, several tumors, as a matter of fact. Co-workers pitched in. They gave it their all. They made home-cooked meals for her. They even gave her their hard-earned time off, paid time off, plus benefits to the tune of $21,000. But then the grim reaper never showed up. Why? She faked the whole thing and she did it for months on end.

Out to Taylor Millard with Metro Networks. What happened?

TAYLOR MILLARD, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, it`s a really strange case with -- what happened was this woman, Sandra Martinez, decided to forge at least five doctors` notes to get paid sick leave and work half days and land certain duties within the Smoky Point Social Services Office, which is where she was working.

She basically said she had brain cancer, and for about a four- to five- to six-month period, she wrote fake doctors` letters from at least -- from at least four to five doctors detailing, you know, hey, I need this off, hey, I need -- here is what`s going on, and she got extra sick days and sick leave and it`s a really odd case.

GRACE: Out to special guest Detective Peter Barrett from the Arlington Police Department.

Detective, thank you for being with us. How did authorities find out about the scam?

DET. PETER BARRETT, ARLINGTON POLICE DEPT.: Well, authorities -- we were initially tipped off by DHSH themselves. They were contacted by Sandra`s neighbor, Miss Townsell, and Miss Townsell basically discovered on her printer, which Miss Martinez had used on several occasions, a letter with the University of Washington Medical Center logo, letterhead on top, and that letter outlined a brain tumor that was basically causing her inevitable death with several months to live, essentially.

GRACE: Now, let me get it straight. In one of these letters, Detective, she writes about herself that she has some blood vessels, have hemorrhaged around the brain, and she has gone into a coma. Then very quickly, she writes she`s out of the coma, and she can come back to work, but she needs half days off on Friday.

Didn`t that ring a bell of alarm to anybody?

P. BARRETT: Well, I think.

GRACE: She comes out of a coma and goes straight to work?

P. BARRETT: I think initially where this whole thing started was that they had every reason to believe Miss Martinez. I think over time they essentially were led on and led on and led on, and this was one of the final straws. It had been ramping up in suspicion, and they did finally reach the point like this where it was discovered.

GRACE: Katherine Barrett, freelance reporter joining us out of Seattle, what more can you tell us?

KATHERINE BARRETT, FREELANCE REPORTER: Well, it certainly takes playing hokey to a whole new level, Nancy. I think it was that letter about being in a coma with the burst blood vessels that was what really sealed it for her neighbor, who then went to her employer, the Department of Health and Social Services of the state of Washington. The state of Washington then went to the Arlington Police, and upon further investigation they say these letters were all cooked up, forged letterhead.

The University of Washington Medical Center has said in the court documents that it is not their letterhead. None of the doctors she named had ever worked there. But a very elaborate ploy to get out of a job.

GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. To Donna in Indiana, hi, Donna.

DONNA, INDIANA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering. My father had brain cancer, and he lost his hair in radiation, and he used to come home with marks where they would radiate the next day, and a bunch of medicine. Didn`t anybody notice that she didn`t have tons of medicine? Because I know when you have cancer, they give you all kinds of medicine.

GRACE: To Taylor Millard with Metro Networks, did anyone notice that she looked perfectly healthy?

MILLARD: Not that I`ve heard of. And, of course, they`re -- obviously this is the something that the detective can answer better, but there are ways to fake looking sick, you know, shaving head and pretending to act ill. But from what I`ve heard, no one really suspected how she looked. Of course, if you`re not in the office that much, no one can.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, you know, this is so wrong on so many levels. I hardly even know where to start. But Bethany, let me take a stab at it. Regarding the co-workers.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": OK.

GRACE: . when you snow someone is ill, I find it very rare that someone would question their illness because they happen to look good on a certain day.

MARSHALL: And even social services, she`s a social worker, because of all the HIPPA laws, they may have been reluctant to contact the doctor. But you know, she was doing something called malingering. It`s when someone makes up or grossly exaggerates a physical illness for external incentive, so you know, it`s like you make up an illness so you don`t have to go into the army, to evade prosecution, to avoid work, for financial gain.

But often like Munchausen by Proxy where the mother makes the child sick for secondary gains of being a part of the medal system, these people get a lot of rewards from all the attention they receive, like she had all of her neighbors cooking for her because she was sad that she was too sick to cook. She got a lot of attention from this.

GRACE: Hey, Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, when a cop gets a case like that, how do you start to fill out a police report? I mean, what do you put? Theft of home-cooked meals?

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I tell you, Nancy, in a case like this, I mean, the neighbor, she made the whole thing up, and you know, she -- I hope the neighbors, I hope the neighbors -- her co-workers, get the leave back. But this case, it`s basically sealed on her. And apparently I hear that she`s also not cooperating with officials.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins, if she had had the illness she claimed to have, aggressive tumors of the brain, malignant, what would her symptoms have been, outward, outward symptoms that co-workers would have identified.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, they would be soft symptoms, not hard symptoms. Symptoms like fatigue or generalized malaise. But you know, one in eight Medicare beneficiaries in the United States claim disability.

You pretty much need to have a broken bone or a CAT scan of an abnormality to prove it and there is a long series of papers that need to be filled out. Doctors respect HIPPA. They do not put confidential medical information in there.

GRACE: Could you very quickly, and remember, we are not MDs, we`re just JDs. When you say HIPPA, what are you talking about?

MAKARY: Well, the Health Information Privacy Act which says that doctors cannot release any information that`s confidential.

GRACE: Got it, got it, got it. Let go back out to the lines. Hold on. Jess in California. Hi, Jess.

JESS, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hello, Nancy. First of all, bless your family and your twins. They`re so adorable.

GRACE: Thank you. I think I`ve got some pictures coming up in just a few moments. Go ahead, dear. What`s your question?

JESS: Yes, this is a very personal subject for me because my own mother died from breast cancer at the age of 10, so I saw this happening from the first day she was diagnosed. And I just have a question to her, like how can she live a lie every day, not knowing that she`s, you know -- not only fooling her boss but fooling herself.

And if she lived with somebody, wouldn`t they not notice that all these people caring for her? And if she does, you know, go to jail, even if she does get released, do you think she`ll ever, like, be able to go back to a job, or will it be just permanently on her record?

GRACE: You know, Jess, I know that you`ve watched this show many times, and one of our best lawyers, one of the best lawyers in New York, Sandy Schiff, has been battling cancer. And I`ve seen her many, many times during that. And it is very obvious that she has been ill. And my heart goes out to you about your mom.

Very quickly, Detective Barrett, before we go to break, is there any way the co-workers can get their money back?

P. BARRETT: Well, hopefully the court process will sort that out as far as restitution goes. But it`s certainly something that they`re interested in.

GRACE: All that paid time off, right down the tubes, trying to help a woman that faked cancer. We`re taking your calls live. But right now, we salute our troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) from Ft. Sill, Oklahoma and I`d like just to salute the troops at Camp Buka, Iraq, from 313th 76th Brigade out of Ft. Sill, Oklahoma. I`d also like to salute my husband, Staff Sergeant Joel Arthurton. It`s his fourth time to Iraq and we`d like to say that we love you, we miss you, and we can`t wait for your return. Hope to see you soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GRACE: All right. Be careful what you wish for because you will surely get it. You asked for the photos and here they are.

Here is John David on his first stroller ride in New York City and there is little Lucy. She was actually happy with that little hat on. And there they are, there they are on their first stroller ride to a park in New York City. Little Lucy - oh, John David`s second attempt at food. That`s organic carrots. No, organic squash. There he is, loving it. And finally, little Lucy, looking at the camera.

Everybody, as you know, we are bringing you a story about a woman, a social services worker, who faked brain cancer to the tune of $21,000. Co- workers bringing her home-cooked meals, donating her their own hard-earned sick leave. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When social worker Sandra Dee Martinez announced to co-workers she had brain cancer, her co-workers rallied around her, donating sick days, cooking meals. Martinez even used $21,000 worth of sick leave. There was just one problem -- Martinez was allegedly lying about having brain cancer. The whole story was a scam.

Now prosecutors charging Martinez with theft that could land the disgraced social worker behind bars for two decades.

PEGGY TOWNSELL, SANDRA MARTINEZ`S NEIGHBOR: If it wouldn`t have been printed out on my computer by accident, I wouldn`t have thought it wasn`t for real. I really wouldn`t. I mean the -- looks the way she had it typed up. She had the heading from the hospital, she had the doctor`s name, the ID -- doctor`s ID, everything on there.

On a daily basis, we would pretty much feed her every day because she was too sick to cook. I mean it was just something God would have wanted us to do, is help somebody because, you know, they needed help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Well, maybe God wants you to be a state`s witness now because this lady is headed for jail. Faking a malignant brain tumor, she basically, according to cops, robbed the company of $21,000 in benefits, had her friends and co-workers lining up to cook her home-prepared meals, even donating their hard-earned sick leave so she could take more time off.

Let`s go to the lawyers. Eleanor Dixon, Mickey Sherman, Carmen St. George. Eleanor, what charges is she looking at?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, obviously, theft by taking. Theft of the services, theft of the money, the sick leave time. She could face up to 10 years on this and probably deserves each and every year. Of course, I just know what the defense is going to say, Nancy. You know what they`re going to say - mental illness.

GRACE: They`ll say she is sick in the head, right, Mickey?

DIXON: Right.

GRACE: Right?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": No, I disagree. She`s not sick in the head. She ripped off the state for $21,000.

GRACE: So what`s her defense?

SHERMAN: The defense is that she`s probably a first offender. It`s more of an obnoxious crime than it is a serious crime. It`s just getting all the sick off.

GRACE: Are you such a big-shot lawyer now that $21,000 isn`t serious anymore?

SHERMAN: No, no.

GRACE: When did that happen?

SHERMAN: It`s -- no. It`s a lot of money, especially in -- the state of Washington. Don`t forget, she`s a social worker, OK? I mean, I don`t know, you know, it`s bizarre.

GRACE: I don`t know. At this juncture, I think I would check out her CV, her resume and see if she really went to college.

SHERMAN: You can`t blame -- you got to blame Microsoft Word and Photoshop because they enabled her.

GRACE: Right. It`s their fault.

SHERMAN: Exactly.

GRACE: To Carmen St. George, got anything better than suing Microsoft? You know, if she put the same amount of time and energy into her job or her own career as she did into faking, she`d probably be running for president right now.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, Nancy, you`re going to love this, because we`re in agreement. It`s egregious conduct. But -- did anybody take a look at these notes that she wrote? They have misspellings, they`re poorly written. I mean where is the Department of Social Services in terms of looking and investigating into why their employees really taking off?

GRACE: Carmen, Carmen, Carmen, don`t try to turn the table with me and blame them for not spell-checking, all right? And that brings me to another issue, Eleanor Dixon. What about the crime of forgery?

DIXON: Well, it could be that especially if she forged the doctor`s name. And I`m wondering if she even got any prescriptions or anything along those lines. There could be some additional charges.

GRACE: Oh, excellent, excellent thought.

Out to Detective Peter Barrett with the Arlington Police Department, any way that this woman was actually getting any type of medication under false pretenses? And have you guys taken a look at her computer at work or at home? I wonder if she actually, like, Googled or Yahooed this illness so she could come up with the symptoms.

P. BARRETT: Well, we haven`t done a lot of those things. I can`t go into details exactly on what we have because it has not gone to trial yet, so some of those details we`re still keeping down. As far as the forgeries and stuff like that, that is certainly something that we`ve considered and pursued.

GRACE: Yes, on the other hand, weren`t a lot of these doctors fake doctors or are they doctors in different jurisdictions, Detective?

P. BARRETT: Again, what we`ve found out through the investigation was that the University of Washington Medical Center said that none of those doctors -- none of those names were for legitimate doctors that had ever worked for them.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Megan in Canada, hi, Megan.

MEGAN, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

MEGAN: I`ve been suffering from cancer for 4 1/2 year, and I just want to know what kind of mental illness could somebody be suffering from for something -- for faking something so awful?

GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, is there any legitimate illness that you could think of that would justify this?

MARSHALL: No, no. I mean, malingering is a syndrome. Really the strongest correlation is between that and anti-social personality disorder where the person is sort of callous, breaks the rules in society and lacks regard.

Really how I think about this woman is a manipulative, regressed, crying, whiny little baby who steals care from other people and coerces it rather than leaning on others and developing appropriate dependencies.

GRACE: Well, what`s interesting to me is that I consider this worse than blind theft, like a burglary, goes to somebody`s home and you steal things. Here, she knew her co-workers. She knew her neighbors that she was taking advantage of.

Out to the lines, Christine in New York. Hi, Christine.

CHRISTINE, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?

CHRISTINE: I`m disgusted with this woman. My sister has brain cancer. She had surgery last year. They didn`t get it all and how could anybody not know she had cancer. My sister`s head was huge. She has a huge scar just to show, you know -- you know something`s wrong with her by looking at her, and not to mention -- I mean she lost her job, she had no benefits, and she was taking so much medicine.

How could something know -- not know this woman was faking it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Before we go back to your calls, I want to take note that today is the National Peace Officers Memorial Day. 181 officers made the ultimate sacrifice in 2007. Thank you does not express how we feel about you and your families.

I want to answer Christine in New York`s call. To Bethany Marshall, the suffering that cancer patients go through and then to fake this illness to get job benefits makes it even worse.

MARSHALL: It`s so terrible because basically, inserting herself into the role of a sick person, a person with cancer, she played on the sympathies of others. It`s like stealing from a charity.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sue in Pennsylvania, hi, Sue.

SUE, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just saw the pictures of your twins. They`re gorgeous.

GRACE: Thank you.

SUE: My question is, to the agency that she worked for, will there be any kind of compensation in terms of reimbursing the employees.

GRACE: Good question.

SUE: . who gave up their sick time and vacation time?

GRACE: To Taylor Millard with Metro Networks, do you think any of those employees will get their time -- their vacation and sick time back?

MILLARD: That`s up to the -- that`s up to the Social Services Department and the government of Washington to determine that as well as probably the -- probably the Snohomish County.

GRACE: Right.

To Katherine Barrett, any idea whether those co-workers will get their time back that they donate?

K. BARRETT: That they donated? Well, it may come down to a discretionary decision that the state has to make to make them whole again, but it will probably also depend on the outcome in court.

GRACE: Thank you to Katharine Barrett and Taylor Millard. I`m sure this is one case that you reported on you`ll never forget.

Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Jonathan Dozier, 30 years old, Chesapeake, Virginia, killed, Iraq. A sniper team leader, comes from a family with a long military tradition, quiet, caring, loved outdoors. Leaves behind parents Karl and Martha, sister Jennifer and 1-year-old daughter, Emma.

Jonathan Dozier, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END