Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Four Sought in Atlanta Jewelry Store Heist

Aired June 4, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, imagine strolling through your favorite mall, Macy`s, Burami (ph), B.B. (ph), Gap, Gymboree (ph), Cheesecake Factory, when a gang of masked men armed to the hilt storm the mall commando-style, honing in on a boutique jewelry store. The heist to the tune of over a quarter million dollars has left an upscale community frozen with fear. Tonight, grainy surveillance video emerges as police search for clues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four suspects wearing military-style fatigues with their faces covered enter the Crown Jewelry store like it was a commando raid. One suspect leaps over counters. Another carries a long-barreled gun and points it at the store owner. Another climbs over the counter and grabs the store owner by the neck, pointing a handgun into his face. Then it`s a smash and grab. Display cases are shattered using fists and weapons, and within minutes, those cases are cleaned out of the first things they can grab. The video is very telling, telling police they need to get these guys off the street as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: The term "working mom" takes on a whole new meaning after a Long Beach soccer mom caught red-handed selling heroin out of her high-powered SUV, her 3 and 6-year-old sons in the car with her. Guess it was "Take your child to work day." I`m sure the judge will appreciate that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have we got here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is $10,810.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s money that was stashed all over accused drug dealer Adino Rodriquez`s (ph) two-bedroom apartment. Long Beach narcotics officers say they also found black tar heroin in a baggie hidden in a baby`s shoe. Police are revealing today that they have the 35-year- old mother of eight on surveillance tape selling heroin out of the family car with two of her youngest in the back seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one particular incident or day that we were watching her, she pulled up in her car, and when she pulled up in her car, she had two little boys with her in the back seat. They were I think 3 and 5 years old. They didn`t have the carseats or seatbelts on, which is a concern, but moreso was the fact that when she pulled up, she reached right across their face and handed some heroin to the operator that was working this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. A gang of masked men armed to the hilt storm an upscale mall commando-style, honing in on a boutique jewelry store. Tonight, grainy surveillance video emerges as police search for clues. It`s a quarter million-dollar heist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe the suspects had cased Crown Jewelers before their heist, and they came into the store heavily armed, at first subduing or intimidating the workers, then going at the glass. They had planned for most everything, but did not apparently bring a hammer to break the cases, and that turned out to be their only delay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like an action-packed movie, it went down so fast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cobb County police say the four suspects were in the store for less than a couple of minutes. They ran out through the mall with their loot and into the parking lot at the north end of the mall. A getaway vehicle was standing at the curb, motor running, a fifth suspect in the driver`s seat. Police are still trying to locate that white 2003 to 2005 four-door Pontiac Bonneville.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say had this heavily-armed group met up with a police officer, a deadly shootout in or near the crowded mall could easily have erupted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Mothers with children, families strolling that mall. It all took place early in the morning, not long after the mall opened its doors for business. Take a look, all of this caught on surveillance video. The problem is, the perpetrators are disguised and armed to the hilt.

Straight out to Eric Jens with WLBB Newsradio. What happened?

ERIC JENS, WLBB NEWSRADIO: Well, thank you, Nancy. It`s pretty much exactly as you described it here. Those four masked gunmen entered the store about 10:30 in the morning on Monday. Then they quickly start smashing the place up and grabbing what they can. Probably less than five minutes, they`ve already made their exit out a separate exit to the mall, and they`re gone.

GRACE: You know, it seems to me -- out to Chris McGoey, security expert joining us from San Bernardino, California -- is it possible this was an inside deal?

CHRIS MCGOEY, SECURITY EXPERT: No question about it. They had some inside information, certainly cased the location, had planned the best time. They planned their escape routes. They planned that there`s going to be video surveillance and tried to anticipate everything.

GRACE: And back to Eric Jens with WLBB Newsradio. This is a pretty upscale mall. I mean, you`ve got Macy`s. You`ve got Burami, Victoria`s Secret, Cheesecake Family -- Cheesecake Factory, the Gap. I`m very disturbed about the response of mall security.

JENS: Right, Nancy. And so is the owner of this store. He was kind of questioning, Where was mall security at this point? Apparently, according to him, there was one mall security officer nearby, and he claims he was hid because he was afraid he was going to get shot in the ordeal.

GRACE: He hid. What about the other mall security?

JENS: They were not on the scene at the time they came. But like I said, it was three minutes in which they had to respond, and by then, they were already out the door.

GRACE: To Dr. Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining us tonight. What does this do to a community, when there is a mall that before this had been considered to be safe and secure? There are a lot of families shopping there, a lot of moms, children, and now this. Take a look at this.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, I have to tell you that this whole community will be up in arms over this and I`m sure will be very frightened because you do count on the fact that there is mall security, and this is traumatic for the whole entire people that are there.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Atlanta, Holly Hughes. Along with her, defense attorney Renee Rockwell and Joe Lawless, defense attorney and author out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction. Holly, what type of charges are they looking at?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Nancy, they`re looking at a whole host of charges. First of all, you`ve got armed robbery. You`ve got all the firearm charges that go with it, possession of firearm during commission of felony, possession of firearm by a convicted felon, if any of these perpetrators have prior felony convictions. You have kidnapping if they moved those employees even just half an inch. You`re talking about the slightest (INAUDIBLE) Nancy. That`s going to be a kidnapping charge. You`ve got aggravated assault for pointing the weapons. If, in fact, they hit any of these people -- and you see the one perp diving over the counter -- you`re talking about a battery charge on these guys. They are looking at a whole host of criminal charges.

GRACE: Another thing -- back to Eric Jens with WLBB Newsradio. They apparently knew where the real stuff was, where the most expensive items were. And that`s exactly what they honed in on.

JENS: Exactly. According to store management there, they had some less expensive jewelry in the store. They went straight for the expensive stuff. They knew right where to find it. They got it into some sacks quickly, using that intimidation factor to keep everybody on the floor, and they made their escape with minimal amount of notice as possible.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to Chris McGoey, security expert joining us out of California. Chris, as a shopper in the mall, what are you supposed to do when this happens and you`re right there?

MCGOEY: Well, you certainly don`t want to fight or try to intervene. You want to make yourself as small as possible, get out of the way, get down on the ground...

GRACE: Oh, hold on! Hold on! You`re telling me to, quote, "make yourself as small as possible." I`ve been trying to do that for about 20 years. How do you do it on the floor of a mall?

MCGOEY: You get down on the ground or you get out of harm`s way. Get a barrier between you and them. And don`t try to be a hero.

GRACE: You know -- to Eric Jens with WLBB Newsradio -- that`s the best this upscale mall has to offer, a security fleet that ran when this went down in a boutique jewelry store?

JENS: This doesn`t happen every Monday morning, especially not at a mall like you described here, so perhaps they just weren`t prepared for something like this to happen and they`re doing their best to respond at this time.

GRACE: OK. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Go back to Eric Jens. Let`s take a look at Eric Jens. What did you just say? They`re doing the best they can at this time?

JENS: They`re doing the best they can to respond at this time. Obviously, there`s things they might have done differently had they anticipated...

GRACE: Like not run?

JENS: ... that these people were coming.

GRACE: Like not run?

JENS: The case has been turned over to Cobb County authorities at this time, and they`re going into more details as far as, you know, where these people may have come from, who they are, whether, in fact, they had any connection to the store prior to this incident.

GRACE: Eric, how many security guards were on duty when this happened?

JENS: Throughout the mall, I believe there was more than one, of course, but there was only one in the vicinity, and of course, his actions don`t appear to be one of stepping forward.

GRACE: Are security agents within the mall armed?

JENS: Yes, they do have, I believe...

GRACE: So he`s armed and he ran?

JENS: He hid, I guess. And I don`t know exactly...

GRACE: He hid?

JENS: ... what was going through his mind at the time.

GRACE: Is that supposed to be better than running, he hid? Where did he hide?

JENS: Just around the corner, from what I understand.

GRACE: Just out of curiosity.

JENS: I don`t know as to the extent of what his actions were, whether he was trying to phone in additional help. But the store manager is none to happy with the action that was taken at the time this was going on.

GRACE: I guess not. Over a quarter million dollar heist.

Out to the lines. Nina in California. Hi, Nina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How`re you, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) congratulations on your twins. I`m a mother of twins, too, so -- we are strong women. I wanted to know, are there any cameras outside? Are there gas stations outside of the mall that maybe caught the robbers?

GRACE: Excellent question. Eric Jens, what do we know?

JENS: We do have some still photo shots of the vehicle as it`s leaving the parking lot and moving through the area. Beyond that, there`s nothing else to go on.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Travis in Tennessee. Hi, Travis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy. I was just wondering, how much do these security guards actually get paid? And if they are armed, you know, it can`t be worth fighting off these guys.

GRACE: Excellent question. What do we know, Eric, about the caliber of the security guards there?

JENS: It is of minimal strength, I guess, and when you`re looking at an opposing force of four individuals, one of them that appears to have a machine gun, there`s going to be some pause for the concern...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

JENS: ... for the safety of everybody there.

GRACE: One of these guys, one of the perps, has a machine gun?

JENS: If you look at the one who just crossed the screen...

GRACE: I think I just saw that.

JENS: Yes, that`s...

GRACE: A machine gun?

JENS: That`s what it appears to be. Now, that`s not confirmed, of course, at this point, but that`s certainly an intimidating weapon nonetheless.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Regina in Michigan. Hi, Regina.

GRACE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question? What would you do if you walked into Victoria`s Secret and saw this going down?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hide!

GRACE: Well, you`d be right there with the security guard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, since they went to the most expensive stuff, did it sound like an inside job, or had they been casing the store for a while?

GRACE: You know, Regina, that was my first question. But to know exactly where the most expensive stuff is, over a quarter million-dollar heist, it seems to me they would have to know more than just browsing through the store, unless they`re all expert jewelers that could determine real stuff from fakes.

What about it? Out to Renee Rockwell and Joe Lawless. Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, first of all, I want to disagree with you with this security guard. Had he engaged with these guys and they returned fire, then you have a lawsuit when all the other...

GRACE: That`s what you`re worried about?

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy...

GRACE: You`re worried about a lawsuit?

ROCKWELL: A lawsuit (INAUDIBLE) other shoppers are going to get killed. These are not guys that you want to engage with. This is a property loss. This is what insurance is for. And you just need to...

GRACE: Well, I`ve got one question for you, Renee...

ROCKWELL: ... these guys...

GRACE: I`ve got one question for you. You say that`s a property loss, insurance is for -- what`s the security guard for? Can you tell me that?

ROCKWELL: Not to...

GRACE: Can`t they at least -- at least write down a tag number?

ROCKWELL: Nancy-...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Throw me a bone here, Renee! Help me out!

ROCKWELL: Maybe write down tags, but you don`t engage...

GRACE: Do something! Don`t hide...

ROCKWELL: ... with these guys.

GRACE: ... behind the trashcan! Why do they arm them?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, you don`t engage with these guys, not when you have other shoppers around.

GRACE: Well, maybe...

(CROSSTALK)

ROCKWELL: ... dead bodies lying around.

GRACE: Maybe you don`t. Maybe you don`t engage because you`re not an armed security guard. But they`re supposed to engage and stop crime, or at least stop fleeing felons. Joe Lawless, I guess you agree with Renee.

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, not necessarily. I`m not sure where I would have engaged them, but if he has a gun and he`s there, he`s got an obligation or he shouldn`t be there with a gun in the first place. I think he might have been trying to choose his spot. I don`t know what I would have done. I`m a card-carrying coward. But if you`re there, you see people waving around firearms, you`ve got to do something, whether you like it or not.

GRACE: You know, I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health joining us from Johns Hopkins. A machine gun? One round from a machine gun -- what kind of damage would that do?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, you could easily even kill more than one person with a single round. I mean, weapons are commonly used in many of these traumas (ph) now because they`re so easily accessible. So that`s a big problem right now, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Angie in Wisconsin. Hi, Angie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if they have past surveillance that they`ve looked at, if they have -- you know, can identify, like, maybe the bodies, how tall they are and thin?

GRACE: All they apparently got on the past surveillance is the security fleet walking around, having pretzels from Auntie Annie`s (ph) Pretzels Factory. Eric Jens, have they looked at the old video?

JENS: That`s something that Cobb County authorities are going through right now is all the video that they have at their discretion. But of course, just like this one, it`s not very descriptive in terms of coming up with an identity for these potential suspects.

GRACE: You know, I find it highly ironic that on the back of their sweatshirts, it says "Security." What I`m wondering -- to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author -- is whether anybody within the store was tipped off. Did they know what was going to happen? I don`t see anybody fighting back.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Right, Nancy. I think one of the things they`re going to look at is, does somebody have a girlfriend in the store? Because a lot of times, you have the boyfriend say to the girl, Hey, you work at a jewelry store. What can we take out of that place? So they`re going to be checking out those employees. Hey, they even might have to check out the security guard because security guards are very poorly paid. They`re not trained at all. Maybe they`re his buddies that came in and he`s on the other side of the mall, saying, I`ll be there and you go there. So they`re even going to have to talk to him to find out if he was involved.

GRACE: You know, isn`t it the truth, Holly Hughes, prosecutor joining us out of Atlanta, how many times I`ll look at somebody`s book-in and their rap sheet, it says, Employment, security.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Security!

HUGHES: You know what, Nancy? That`s the most...

GRACE: On their rap sheet!

HUGHES: ... frightening thing in the world. You`re absolutely right.

GRACE: They have a job in security! And they`re felons!

HUGHES: That`s exactly right. I know. It`s absolutely frightening to me that they don`t run background checks on these people, yet they`re going to give them a gun and let them protect the rest of us. I`ve seen it as much as you have, friend, and I got to tell you, it scares me.

GRACE: What do you see in this scenario, Holly Hughes?

HUGHES: Well, I got to tell you, what I see is somebody who`s absolutely cased this joint before, Nancy. They have gone in there, whether it`s an inside job and someone has said to them, This is what you need -- these guys planned this down. They wore "security" so that when they went running through the mall, nobody would stop them. They would think they were responding to something else. They were armed with guns. They knew exactly where to go. They went there in record time, smashed that thing, those glass things, got the jewelry and got back out without anybody interfering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like an action-packed movie, it went down so fast. And I`m turning around to see how it`s going down, and they go in and out. Man, they had this thing down to a science. So they did their homework and they did it right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Check out this brazen daylight robbery at an Atlanta-area jewelry store. At least four armed men disguised as security guards storm into a store Monday morning. They forced employees to the ground and smashed the tops of display cases to grab the jewels. The robbers quickly got away. They dropped some of the jewelry as they were running out of the mall exit. Police say because these robbers were so bold, they are concerned that they just might strike again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Yes, they don`t look scared at all. Long story short, imagine wandering through your favorite mall. And this is an upscale mall there in the Atlanta area, shops like Macy`s, B.B., Burami, Cheesecake Factory, the Gap -- a lot of jewelry stores. Soon after the front doors were opened, this gang comes barreling in commando-style, hones in on a boutique jewelry store, and the rest is caught on video. The heist over a quarter million dollars.

What`s more concerning to me is the machine gun or the machine guns that this bunch was carrying.

Out to the lines. Pam in Texas. Hi, Pam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love you and love your show. I just wonder why, if this is a boutique high-dollar jewelry store, they didn`t have their own security off-duty policeman. I`m in Dallas, and every high- dollar boutique store we have like that with jewelry, we have at least two. Every time I go in, I notice they have at least two. And they`re off-duty policemen with guns in their holsters. I`m just wondering why that jewelry store -- you would think maybe the insurance company would require that of them.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Holly Hughes, Renee Rockwell, Joe Lawless. Out to Joe Lawless. Any liability on the part of security -- excuse me -- on the part of the jewelry store for not having security in the store?

LAWLESS: Well, if any of the patrons of the store were there and were hurt, there might be. But then the other question this raised, if you had security there and they did engage the perpetrators and these guys had automatic weapons and somebody got hurt, you could nail them on mistaken judgment. I mean, as tough as you want to be on the security guards, if four guys walk in and they have guns out, I don`t care if they have them on their hips or not, they`ve basically got the drop on them.

GRACE: Yes. That`s not my question. My question is, Could the jewelry store be held liable for not having adequate security, Renee?

LAWLESS: To who?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, liable to who, to themselves? They`re the ones that lost.

GRACE: Well, for one thing, to the employees there in the jewelry store. Think, ding, ding, they`re victims, too.

ROCKWELL: OK, but -- no, I don`t see it at all, Nancy, because...

GRACE: OK, what about it Holly?

HUGHES: Unfortunately, I have to agree with the defense attorneys on this one, and you know that`s (INAUDIBLE) But no, there`s no liability. They are the victims. And when you go to work somewhere, you`re basically assuming the risk. I mean, there was mall security. They relied on it to their detriment, unfortunately.

GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on. You do not assume a risk just because you go to a job. However, an intervening criminal act may very well negate any civil responsibility. Do you agree with that, Joe Lawless?

LAWLESS: Yes, I do. I agree with you. How unusual.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four people raiding a jewelry store in a mall. This is near Atlanta. One of them points a long-barreled gun at the owner. And then they smash cases, take off running through the mall. Police are still looking for those suspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four were dressed in black or blue. At least one had a shirt emblazoned with "Security" written on the back. They were masked but obviously knew there would be plenty of witnesses in and around the mall. As the four workers (ph) spent just minutes inside, a getaway driver moved this white Pontiac Bonneville down to a Cumberland Mall exit and was waiting for the group as it exited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like an action-packed movie, it went down so fast. And I`m turning around to see how it`s going down, and they go in and out. Man, they had this thing down to a science. So they did their homework and they did it right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To the tune of over a quarter million dollars. But what is more disturbing -- this is an upscale community, low in crime, a very nice mall, stores like Macy`s, Victoria`s Secret, Gymboree for children, a Cheesecake Factor, B.B.`s clothes -- stunning. And the security guards there at the mall took off running. I don`t know how that can instill a sense of safety in the mall-goers.

Our to Laurie in New York. Hi, Laurie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi. I`m your number one fan, and I love you!

GRACE: Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should have run for president. But anyway, I juts wanted to ask you if the security guard, since he ironically just ran off, was he questioned extensively by the police? And if so, what was the outcome of that?

GRACE: Interesting question. Eric Jens with WLBB Newsradio -- just because he hid behind the trashcan doesn`t necessarily mean he`s part of the heist.

JENS: Well, that`s right, Nancy. And again, we don`t know the details of what`s being discussed now, but he has been working with Cobb County police department in this case (INAUDIBLE) compiling information.

GRACE: Everybody, when we come back: Let`s go pick the kids up from school. We`ll stop for ice cream. And then we`ll sell some black tar heroin. That`s right, a Long Beach soccer mom busted for selling heroin out of her high-powered SUV, her 3-year-old and 6-year-old sons in the car with her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Long Beach police say a tip led them to make two undercover heroin buys from 36-year-old Enedina Cardona Rodriquez. She lives at this apartment building on Cherry Avenue along with her eight children.

In one of the videotaped drug sales at a different location, Rodriquez allegedly showed up with two of her kids in tow, ages 3 and 5. All of Rodriguez`s children are now in protective custody.

When police searched Rodriguez`s apartment, they found $10,000 in cash hidden in clothes and a fanny pack. They also found black tar heroin.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Sitting right on her dresser, which was maybe two and a half feet tall, was a baby shoe with a plastic bag containing heroin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: How does a soccer mom Enedina Rodriquez, age 36, manage to get into the heroin business selling black tar heroin out of her SUV with the two kids, 3-year-old and 6-year-old sons, in the SUV?

Out to Jo Kwon with KNX Radio, what happened?

JO KWON, PRODUCER, KNX RADIO: Well, she had been undercover surveillance for two weeks. Got tipped off from another arrest and basically they followed her around and she would take her kids around as if running to errands to, like, go to the bank and she would do drug deals and in between, pick up her kids, go get ice cream, do another drug deal, and you know, cops were covering her and following her for two weeks and they`ve caught her.

GRACE: To Tracy Manzer, police and crime reporter joining us out of Long Beach, California -- she`s with "The Long Beach Press-Telegram."

Tracy, thank you for being with us. How long has the soccer mom been under surveillance?

TRACY MANZER, POLICE & CRIME REPORTER, LONG BEACH PRESS-TELEGRAM: Police began their investigation in mid-May and the first transactions that they videotaped were on May 19th. They also videotaped transactions that she made on the 27th of May and the 28th of May.

GRACE: So this time she had a 3-year-old and a 6-year-old with her. Is it true that one of her customers walked up to the car to buy the black tar heroin, said something to the baby and the baby held up three fingers? He actually asked the baby how old are you? And so she walk talking to the junkie?

MANZER: Yes, the customer commented on how cute the boys were and how big the boys were. And she asked the boy what their names were and they were kind of shy and quiet and their mom said, "Tell her your names," so the boys told her her name and then the little 3-year-old held out his hand and three fingers to show her how old he was.

GRACE: Like you want a junkie to know your kids` names?

MANZER: It`s part of what really disturbed police about this case. Because they were so close, they were actually between her and the person buying the drugs and that they that she, obviously, had no qualms about involving the children in the transaction.

GRACE: Do we know, Tracy, what she`s doing with all the money is?

MANZER: I have no idea. She was living in a very small apartment in a very, you know, middle class neighborhood. There`s a fairly high crime rate in the area. So she wasn`t living a flashy life style by any means but she had a lot of cash in that apartment.

GRACE: She was keeping it low key.

Out to you, Pat Brown, criminal profiler. What does it mean?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": It means these kids are a cover for her. I mean she`s found some real usefulness for all these children. She`s just a soccer mom. She can do drop them at school. She could take them shopping and everybody thinks she`s normal.

And a lot of people who commit crimes actually spend time to dress up children, taking them to doctors, and making sure they get to school because that makes them think, first of all, I`m a decent person and secondly, that no one`s going to suspect me.

GRACE: To Jo Kwon of KNX Radio, joining us out of L.A. -- Jo, didn`t some of the neighbors actually think that she was a young mom that was a waitress? Because they would see her leaving wearing an apron kind of -- and a dress and then she would come back late in the evening?

KWON: That`s right. They would see her wearing an apron, coming back at 2:00 a.m. Very restaurant hours or a bar kind of hours, and they did think she was just a hard working mother with seven kids living with her.

GRACE: Yes, she was hard working all right. The black tar heroin business takes a lot of time and effort.

Tracy Manzer with "Long Beach Press & Telegram" -- Tracy, do we have any idea who the dealer is?

MANZER: No. Police are still investigating that. But there was no information as to who her connection was.

GRACE: And Tracy, what do we know about whether the heroin found in the home was within access of the children? The other children.

MANZER: It most definitely was. It was tucked inside of a little baby -- white little baby tennis shoe and it was on top of her dresser that was -- couldn`t have been more than two feet, two and a half feet tall in her bedroom.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Wendy in Virginia. Hi, Wendy.

WENDY, VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on your babies.

GRACE: Thank you.

WENDY: So my question is, OK, if she put the drugs in the children`s shoes, could they not get her for child endangerment or even attempted murder?

GRACE: Excellent question. What are the charges, Tracy?

MANZER: There are 16 criminal charges filed, four of them felonies in connection with the drugs. Twelve of them are misdemeanor child endangerment charges and the children are all in protective custody.

GRACE: Back out to the lines -- we are taking your calls live. To Harold in Alabama. Hi, dear.

HAROLD, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hey, how are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question?

HAROLD: OK. I love your show. Well, I want to know about the kids. Are they with their grandparents or are they in custody? Or where the kids are, that`s what I want to know.

GRACE: For all I know tonight, they`re working in a meth lab, Harold.

Let`s find out. What about it, Jo Kwon?

KWON: They are actually with Child Protective Services -- Los Angeles County Child Protective Services.

GRACE: Now that -- here are the ages of the children. She has an 18- year-old that does not live in the home. Apparently, she left a 16-year- old in charge and, Tracy, when police went to her home, she was nowhere to be found. Where was she?

MANZER: She apparently was on her way back from a town called Charlock in northern California. She had left around 3:00 a.m. in the morning and it took police over two -- close to two hours of negotiating with her for her to finally turn herself in.

They made it clear they had her children and that she needed to come home. She sent two different sets of friends. She also sent a cousin before she finally relented and came to the home.

GRACE: So even knowing the cops had her children, she wouldn`t come in?

MANZER: No. It took them quite a while to get her to finally show up.

GRACE: OK. To Sandy in Washington. Hi, Sandy.

SANDY, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

SANDY: Oh, I just wanted to know, you guys hinted on the fact that maybe she was a waitress, also? Did she have another job?

GRACE: Interesting question. Do we know, Jo Kwon? Did she have another job or was this it?

KWON: As far as I know, I mean, the police followed her for two weeks and basically she would go between running errands, picking up the kids and doing deals, so as far as the surveillance one, it didn`t look like she had another job.

GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychologist, how do you compartmentalize to the point where you can take your kids along with you when you`re selling black tar heroin out of your SUV?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, that`s what a criminal mentality is all about, Nancy. This is not the kind of mother that you can relate to. It`s not like you at all. It`s somebody who`s only thinking about herself. And to -- she is a criminal. This is her life.

And so, these kids really are not -- she doesn`t have attachment. It`s much more they`re a decoy so she can do what she needs to do.

GRACE: Tracy, do we have any idea that she herself is an addict?

MANZER: No. Police said nothing about that.

GRACE: So this was clearly a business venture. A 36-year-old soccer mom busted selling black tar heroin out of her SUV.

Out to the lines, Kimberly in Maryland. Hi, Kimberly.

KIMBERLY, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

KIMBERLY: I want to know, were there any, like, family members or babysitters taking care of her kids when they weren`t with her? And if so, do they have any idea that she was drug dealing?

GRACE: That evening, Jo Kwon, nobody was home except the children, correct?

KWON: That is correct. She left the 16-year-old son, the oldest son, at home watching the kids and as far as the sergeants can tell, there weren`t any other adult people watching the children or any other adult figures within the home.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, joining us from Johns Hopkins -- Dr. Makary, if, for instance, the 6-year-old or the 3-year-old had ingested black tar heroin, what would have happened?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, actually, because it`s ingested, it`s safe. But I`ll tell you, kids commonly take it because heron`s laced with starch, sugar or ironically baby formula.

GRACE: Everybody, at your request, I`m going to show you some pictures we just took of the twins.

Here I am with John David. This is an emergency feeding on 56th Street right in front of God and everybody. That`s little Lucy. And there they are on their 7-month birthday. And today, they are in walkers.

There`s some organic sweet potatoes going down. Didn`t like them too much. And there`s little Lucy with her first taste of sweet potatoes at age 7 months and here they are watching their Baby Einstein Galileo.

I hope you like them. I`ll be posting them on the Web tonight.

And now, as always, we salute our troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONDA ABLE, SALUTING HUSBAND PCF. FIRST CLASS WILLIAM ABLE: I want to send out a big hey you all to Private First Class William Able of the 101st Airborne.

Hello from all your friends in Mississippi and your mom and dad. We`re so proud of you that mere words can`t express. We pray every day for God to watch over you and return you to us safe.

I`m in Tennessee right now. It`s your brave and beautiful Ronda and your amazing children. They have a message for you, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love you, daddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A mother is accused of taking two of her kids with her to sell heroin and police in Long Beach, California say she left five of her other children alone for at least 12 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our officers searched her apartment and, yes, that`s what they found. $10,000 in cash and heroin stuffed inside a baby`s shoe.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: One particular incident or day that we were watching her, she pulled up in her car and when she pulled up in her car she had two little boys with her in the backseat. They were, I think, 3 and 5 years old.

They didn`t have their car seats or seat belts on which is a concern. But more so was the fact that when she pulled up she reached right across their face and handed some heroin to the operative that was working this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m surprised. I don`t know -- I don`t think she would do that. She was a good mom. So I`m very surprised.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live.

A 36-year-old soccer mom busted for selling black tar heroin out of her SUV. And along for the ride, her 3 and 6-year-old little boys.

Now nobody can tell me that you can eat heroin at age 3 and not have serious, serious health repercussions.

Out to the lines Alana in Kentucky. Hi, dear.

ALANA, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question?

ALANA: I wanted to know, where`s the father or fathers of all of these children?

GRACE: Excellent question. To Tracy Manzer, police and crime reporter with "Long Beach Press Telegram" -- hi, Tracy. Where`s the dad?

MANZER: We have no idea. There were no fathers or father who came forward during the two hours that I was out there with the police department when they were serving the warrant and trying to get in contact with the mother. There were no fathers that appeared in court today for her hearing in court.

GRACE: So how long, Tracy, do police believe that this mom has been dealing black tar heroin?

MANZER: Well, that`s one thing that they did not share with me. All they shared with me is that they launched their investigation when they were tipped to her about mid-May and that they had had her under surveillance for a little over two weeks.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Holly Hughes, Renee Rockwell, Joe Lawless.

Holly Hughes, I don`t think a judge is going to take kindly to her bringing in the kids to work day.

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Yes -- hardly, Nancy. And the thing that`s most frightening to me is she is encouraging the children to identify themselves and tell their ages.

I mean, these people are crazy. They can rip you off. You know you always hear about drug deals gone wrong. What if they have a gun with them? They want to take the drugs, they want to take money, and they`re just going to shoot you and you`re taking your kids with you?

This woman needs some serious help, Nancy. This is ridiculous.

GRACE: You know, to Renee Rock well, when a defendant would bring their children to court, it would actually almost make me be more lenient in my recommendation to the judge.

But in this case, forget about that. It would make me throw the book at her.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy.

GRACE: . for dragging the kids along.

ROCKWELL: But, Nancy, but I hate to send you through the roof. This girl is not going to get any jail time if she does not have a record and you know it. That`s what`s sad about our system.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don`t know -- I don`t know anything about what you`re talking about. All right? To me, this equals jail time but my concern is I`m between a rock and a hard spot, Joe Lawless, because what`s going to happen to the children? Not that she`s mother of the year but what`s going to happen to all of them?

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": Nancy, you`ve known me for a long time. I am often asked who I could or couldn`t represent. And when I see what this woman exposed her children to, I want nothing to do with her as a defense lawyer.

If I`m the judge, she`s going away for a long time. Those children are going to be wards of the state. It`s the unfortunate reality of this case. But what this woman did and what she exposed those children to, I don`t think -- not only I think it`s just illegal, I think it`s immoral. I think she should pay the stiffest penalty out there.

GRACE: To Liz in Connecticut, hi, Liz.

LIZ, CONNECTICUT: Hi, Nancy. My question is, do we know if the mother has any psychological problems or mental illness?

GRACE: Hmm. She was handling a pretty high volume of heroin sales. That makes it difficult, Jo Kwon, for me to believe that she was mentally unstable.

KWON: Yes. As far as what the sergeant told me, the D.A.s, they don`t have any record of that. The only prior any kind of record is that she was arrested on a separate drug arrest but whether she was charged or not, they couldn`t confirm that.

GRACE: Do we know what the arrest was?

KWON: They said it was drug related but they didn`t confirm or deny that she was charged.

GRACE: Huh. When was that?

KWON: They would not tell me that, as well. I tried to find out.

GRACE: Do we know, Tracy Manzer, if there had been any DFAC, Department of Family and Children Services action on this woman in the past?

MANZER: The Department of Children Services will not discuss prior cases and will not discuss prior investigations but they made it clear that the hearing that is scheduled for tomorrow will be devoted largely to deciding what to do with the kids. The kids are all in a foster home right now.

GRACE: Are they together?

MANZER: They are all together. And DCFS has very committed to trying to keep all the children together so the first thing they tried to do.

GRACE: Seem it`s hard to do. Seven.

MANZER: . is find a suitable relative.

GRACE: Going to be hard to take seven (INAUDIBLE) together.

MANZER: If they can`t find a suitable relative, then they`ll put them in a foster home.

GRACE: It will really be hard to keep that many children together.

Out to the lines, Vivian in Kentucky. Hi, Vivian.

VIVIAN, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering if the police questioned the children at all and did they reveal any information?

GRACE: What about that, Joe Lawless? Is it OK to question children under these circumstances?

LAWLESS: Well, the children aren`t suspects in the case. They`re witnesses. I would imagine the police talked to some of them. I think when you start getting down to the younger ones, they`d probably avoid it. There might be a court appointed conservator to sit with them.

GRACE: Right.

LAWLESS: But I don`t know how much you`re going to get out of the kids.

GRACE: So I think -- and I`m translating that into common speak, the answer is yes.

LAWLESS: Sorry, guardian. Yes.

GRACE: OK. Floyd in Pennsylvania, hi, Floyd.

FLOYD, PENNSYLVANIA: How are you doing? I love your show, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

FLOYD: All right. Do you know maybe if this was gang related?

GRACE: What about it, Tracy? Gang related?

MANZER: I didn`t see anything when I was at the home and with the police when they were serving the warrant and they have not made any connection to any gang.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I`m surprised. I don`t -- I don`t think she was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To headline prime`s glen beck, hi, friend.

GLENN BECK, HOST, GLENN BECK SHOW: No more callers, please. We do have a winner. At least I think we do. I hope we do. I swear to you I don`t think this election will ever end.

Barack Obama seems to have locked up the Democratic nomination but Hillary Clinton has yet to withdraw from the race. She`s hanging on like a pit bull.

We`ll bring you a review of Obama`s speech that I don`t think you`re going to get any place else. Then Obama is really and anti-Semitic Iran. Something a kosher but maybe it`s just me.

And then Jeff Foxworthy will be here to talk about a new book he has coming out. We`ll tell you all about it next.

GRACE: Back out to the lines, Crystal in Texas. Hi, Crystal.

CRYSTAL, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CRYSTAL: I`m wondering. What is wrong with her?

GRACE: What`s wrong with her?

CRYSTAL: I have three kids of my own. Yes. What is wrong with her? I mean, my husband, he works at Wal-Mart. OK? And we don`t do this crap. I mean, is she OK?

GRACE: You know what? My first question was that. What is wrong with her? Let`s put it in more technical terms to Caryn Stark. What is wrong with her?

STARK: It`s anti-social personality combined with narcissism, Nancy. It`s a personality disorder. She knows the difference between right and wrong but she can`t help herself.

GRACE: OK. Maybe Joe can`t help her with that.

Judy in Texas, what`s your question, dear?

JUDY, TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. Thanks. Congratulations on your husband and two kids.

GRACE: Thank you.

JUDY: I was wondering, when the police went in to investigate the house, did they find sufficient food and clothes?

GRACE: Good question. Tracy, was she taking care of them at all quickly?

MANZER: The house was very nice and very tidy. Had a lot of religious paraphernalias.

GRACE: OK.

MANZER: It was a typical home.

GRACE: Well, say, on the story, she`s in court tomorrow.

But let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Matthew Straughter, 27, St. Charles, Missouri, killed Iraq. Four generations of his family serving, a combat engineer specialist, awarded the National Defense Service medal, Army Service ribbon, Iraq campaign medal. Loved watching his kids play ball, e-mails with friends.

Leaves behind sister Catherine, brother Andrew, both serving in Iraq, grieving widow Thelma and five children.

Matthew Straughter, American hero.

Thanks you to our guests but most of all thank you to you. And tonight a special good night from Georgia friends of the show joining us, Kitty, Kaye, Ken, Tom, Lyn, Stephanie, Amy and lee. Aren`t they beautiful?

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.

END