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Public Statements Made by Casey, Cindy Anthony; Madonna Dating Young Mode, A-Rod Admits to Using Performance-Enhancing Drugs

Aired February 9, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, stunning twists in the Caylee Anthony case. As preparations are under way for tomorrow`s huge public memorial service for the murdered child, Caylee`s grandmother publishing a moving eulogy. In her first public comment since little Caylee`s remains were identified, Cindy writes that Caylee`s life will not have ended without a purpose.

Certain people are reportedly banned from attending tomorrow`s service. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla says he`s one of them. We`ll tell you why.

Meanwhile, someone from Casey`s past surfaces with a shocking observation. An old childhood friend is quoted as saying she, Casey, and another friend used to bury their dead pets in the same place and in the same way as Caylee was buried. We`ll have the chilling details and get your thoughts. Give us a call.

Plus, inside the mysterious mind and messy house of octo-mom Nadya Suleman. Even her own mother is now telling Radar Online she`s incapable and the house is a dump. It`s all raised more questions about the famous single mother`s ability to care for her family of 14.

And the Material Girl`s own personal Jesus? Madonna reportedly has a new 22-year-old model boyfriend named Jesus. It`s all sparking the gratuitous use of the word "cougar." How is Yankee slugger A-Rod handling that? He`d been linked to Madonna. But he`s got bigger issues tonight: a steroid controversy.

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight right off the top as we count down the hours to little Caylee Anthony`s public memorial service. Casey Anthony awaiting trial for her daughter`s murder makes her first public statement. Her attorney, Jose Baez, read that statement just a little while ago. It included this shocker.


JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: "I allowed my parents to be in charge of the funeral for Caylee. I told them I wanted her buried in a casket and I wanted there to be a gravestone so that I can go visit her. I asked them if there could only be a private -- I asked them if there could only be a private funeral for just the family. I know they cremated her."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. Casey says she wanted to bury Caylee but Cindy and George cremated the toddler. Then, in the same statement read by Baez, Casey expressed her disapproval of tomorrow`s memorial service.


BAEZ: "I still don`t want a public event with cameras and everybody around for Caylee`s service. But I can`t stop my parents -- but I can`t stop my parents from doing what they want. I truly hope that it will help them."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this one-two punch from Casey a sign of a deepening riff within the Anthony family? Plus, Cindy releases a written eulogy to her murdered granddaughter, saying the slain toddler`s life did not end without a purpose. Quote, "Caylee Marie Anthony now has her angel wings and will be watching over so many other children."

But there`s a twist that some say flies in the face of the healing nature of this public memorial. Cindy included restrictions. The family is requesting that those with only the purist of hearts and truly honorable intentions attend the service for their beloved child.

Apparently, that does not include bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, who claims he has been disinvited by Cindy herself. Why the restrictions? Is it because Padilla has publicly stated he thinks Casey Anthony is little Caylee`s killer? And jail officials now reveal that Casey has not requested -- not requested -- to watch tomorrow`s memorial service.

So much to discuss. And of course, I want to hear from you. Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

But first, my expert panel: Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist; Joe Navarro, former FBI agent and profiler; and Adam Longo, a reporter with CNN affiliate WKMG.

Adam, what is the very latest?

ADAM LONGO, REPORTER, WKMH: Yes, Jane, news under way on two fronts tonight. First, I`m standing in front of the First Baptist Church of Orlando, as we`ve mentioned repeatedly, about a mile from the Orange County Jail, where Casey Anthony is. This is where the service is going to be held tomorrow. Doors apparently opening at 9 a.m. in the morning.

They can seat 5,000 people in the worship center here, but to tell you the truth, no one really has a clue about how many people are going to be showing up.

Despite that, security is tight for tomorrow. Metal detectors will be in place. No one will be allowed bags, backpacks, purses, cell phones.

Just in the past few minutes, I was inside. The Anthony family private investigator, Dominic Casey, is in there right now going over security with some of the church staff right now, Jane.

There`s also that huge news that -- the statement coming out from Casey Anthony through her attorney, Jose Baez. A couple of bombshells dropped on us earlier this afternoon, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, yes. And we`re going to review them right now, because these are shockers, people, from Jose Baez today, reading a statement from Casey Anthony. You`ve got to listen to this.


BAEZ: "I allowed my parents to be in charge of the funeral for Caylee. I told them that I wanted her buried in a casket. And I wanted there to be a gravestone so I can go and visit her. I asked them if there could only be a private -- I asked them if there could only be a private funeral for just the family. I know they cremated her."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle, is this a symptom of a deeper problem with this family? They always seem to be fighting.

Cindy and Casey have fought. They fought when Casey wanted to give this child up for adoption when she was still pregnant with her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: They fought about how to raise the child. They fought about Casey`s behavior. And now even in this child`s death on the eve of this memorial that should really be about healing and love and community and all these good feelings, these powerful, positive energy, you have Casey Anthony kind of raining on this parade.

GOLLAND: Well, it`s interesting. I think -- I think it`s Casey Anthony raining on the parade, but there`s also, it shows, again, as you`ve said, this rift in the family that prior to even little Caylee going missing, obviously this family was highly dysfunctional and in high conflict.

So, again, they`re going to continue to do exactly what they do, which is to be in conflict, not be able to manage situations, even at this point that is so publicly. They couldn`t manage things privately, and they certainly can`t manage them publicly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling, you are a criminal defense attorney. Why is Jose Baez participating in this? I have not heard many occasions where a defense attorney reads a statement on a street corner from an incarcerated defendant, especially on the eve of a memorial.

If she`s so opposed, should he have not said to her, "Chill out. This is an important day for your parents. We don`t want to ruin it for them. Don`t say anything. And if you are going to release a statement, I`m not going to read it for you"?

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I am concerned. There comes a time, when you are the criminal defense attorney, when you must be focused on the upcoming trial that will take place at some time. You`re not a publicist. You`re not an advertising guy. You are a trial lawyer.

And to put that statement out there -- you know, I know there`s a lot that -- a lot of things said that are going to infuriate people, but as a trial lawyer, what I`m troubled by is the part of her statement that he read out loud that she thinks about Caylee every second, every minute. She misses her.

Let me tell you something. If she chooses to take the stand, and even if she doesn`t, we are now inviting the prosecutors to talk about did she - - was she missing her every second and every minute while her body was decomposing and she was disco dancing? And if she takes the stand, she will be eviscerated on cross-examination.

Again, this statement takes away the ability for her to testify. She cannot testify. And as a defense attorney, you have to question, do you want to be a participant in taking that constitutional right away from your client?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe Navarro, there`s a practical solution here. They could have found a middle ground. In other words, she wanted a formal burial in a casket. The family, we just found out -- and that`s a big shocker -- cremated the toddler. But you can take cremated remains and bury them and give them a headstone.

So it`s almost like this -- this rift didn`t have to happen. They could have both had their way, in a sense.

JOE NAVARRO, FORMER FBI AGENT AND PROFILER: Yes. As -- as you`ve said, this is a perennial basket-case of individuals fighting each other. They`re fighting each other at this time when they really should be thinking about the child.

This rift is -- is going to play out tomorrow. This is going to be high theater. There`s going to be a lot of perception management going on. And it`s going to play out during the trial.

And what we`re going to see over and over again is a family that`s dysfunctional, a mother who is narcissistically very serene, seemingly untouched at times by the events that have been taking place.

And, you know, you wonder why wasn`t all of this effort vectored into, you know, Caylee, into finding Caylee and into solving this case from -- from the -- from the get-go?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, also in the statement that Baez read today from Casey, we see Casey is somewhat ruefully admitting, hey, parents are still in charge. Listen to this.


BAEZ: "I still don`t want a public event with cameras and everybody around for Caylee`s service. But I can`t stop my parents -- but I can`t stop my parents from doing what they want. I truly hope that it will help them."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling, could this hurt with the jury pool, listening to the fact that this young woman behind bars doesn`t want a public memorial, even though the entire nation has become emotionally invested in this case? And this community in Orlando certainly needs something like this to -- to heal.

FINDLING: I think what`s imperative is that you mentioned the jury pool. Whether or not they -- 30 percent of them, 70 percent of them, 5 percent of them treat it that way, if it`s just one, that`s just not good.

You`ve got to at some point remember you`re not marketing Coca-Cola or Bounty paper towels. You`re getting ready for a criminal jury trial where your client is looking at spending the rest of her life in jail.

It`s enough with the statements. Whatever she says to her attorney is part of their conversation. It`s bad enough that we all have to hear what she says to her parents in private. But now to take these statements and perhaps alienate people -- because certainly you`re not making any friends with these statements.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, yes.

FINDLING: You`re just alienating a certain group of people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a battle of wills playing out before the public at the worst possible time for this particular defendant.

All right. Don`t forget. Nancy Grace is up at 8 p.m. Eastern. She will have the very latest on plans for Caylee Anthony`s memorial service.

And we are just getting started right here on ISSUES. Lots, and I mean lots, of shocking new details to sort through in the Caylee Anthony case. Do you have a question or comment for our expert panel? Give us a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

But first, here is Casey Anthony`s attorney today delivering stunning news about little Caylee`s remains.


BAEZ: "I allowed my parents to be in charge of the funeral for Caylee. I told them that I wanted her buried in a casket. And I wanted there to be a gravestone so I can go and visit her. I asked them if there could only be a private -- I asked them if there could only be a private funeral for just the family. I know they cremated her."




BRAD CONWAY, ATTORNEY FOR ANTHONY FAMILY: "I don`t want anybody disrupting this little girl`s service. That`s the most important thing that -- that I`ve got to emphasize. She deserves dignity and respect, and she`s going to get it."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s Brad Conway, echoing what his client, Cindy Anthony, wrote in her eulogy to Caylee, that only those with the purist of hearts may attend tomorrow`s memorial service.

I want to hear what you think about all of this. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Back with my fantastic panel, and the phone lines are lighting up.

Melanie in Massachusetts, question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: I have a thought about the memorial service tomorrow.


CALLER: I`m JUST hoping that a lot of people that do go, you know, are respectful, even though they`re upset with the grandparents, are respectful because it is for Caylee. And they really didn`t have to do this.

I know a lot of people like on the -- in the paper today, a lot of the comments are -- you know, they`re really slamming the grandparents. I just hope tomorrow that everyone is respectful and nice, because it is for Caylee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t agree with you more. I certainly think that these grandparents are victims, and they need to have compassion. And this memorial service is for the community, but it`s also for them.

Adam Longo, you are there at the church. What are you hearing in terms of how this is going to unfold?

LONGO: Right. Well, we see with big events like this somebody could use this easily as a stage to make a scene.

We do know that security is very tight here. They`re not letting people in with cell phones, purses, backpacks. As you heard Brad Conway say, he doesn`t want any disruptions.

Unfortunately, we have heard that the group who we`ve heard a lot about nationally that protests soldiers` funerals, the Westboro Baptist Church, apparently, there`s talk that a few members of that church may be here.

And also, you talk about those with the purist of hearts aren`t invited by Cindy Anthony. Apparently, that includes Leonard Padilla. He`s telling us that he`s going to have his own little prayer vigil service over in East Orange County where the remains were found. He`s going to be joined by Richard Grund (ph) and several other people, where they`re going to have a prayer service over there at the exact same time as this service is going on at 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. Well, let`s hope it doesn`t turn into a giant circus. And that hate-mongering group you mentioned, I think we`re going to try to ignore them. Because really, they are just insinuating themselves to try to get attention.

Now, you talk about Leonard Padilla. In her eulogy, Cindy says, as we`ve mentioned, only those with the purist of hearts may attend. Now we hear, as you just heard from the reporter, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla disinvited, reportedly, by Cindy. That`s what he says. Why? Maybe it`s because of statements like this. Take a listen.


LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Caylee beyond a reasonable doubt is deceased. The FBI knows it, Orange County knows it, Cindy and George know it, and most of all, Casey, the perpetrator of her death, knows it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Golland, what do you make of the reports that he has been disinvited? Is -- purest of hearts, I understand that, but pure of heart doesn`t necessarily mean that you have to believe that Casey Anthony is innocent.

GOLLAND: Right. I mean, I think I can understand Cindy trying to sort of contain what seems absolutely uncontainable at this point. So I think the memorial service, as you have said, Jane, yourself, really should be about, you know, compassion for the family and for -- and for -- and for little Caylee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But see, what`s interesting is that both mother and daughter are putting sort of a spin on that by making these statements.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So while we certainly want it to be just simply about compassion and no controversy, we`re not creating the controversy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The controversy comes to us via these statements. And we have to analyze them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it does shed light on the psychology not just of Casey but also of Cindy Anthony.

GOLLAND: Oh, I have to say -- I mean, the other flip side of this is also how controlling, in many ways, Cindy Anthony is. And, again, I think what, at least, has been said even prior to little Caylee going missing in the summer was this very contentious relationship between mother and daughter vying for the attention of little Caylee and, again, controlling even Casey wanting the child or not wanting the child.

So again, my -- my understanding of this is, again, a truly dysfunctional family that should have sought help much further ago, you know?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we say that with all the compassion that we have for them, and we do. They`ve gone through hell.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know how -- we have no clue as to how we would handle a situation like this. We might handle it even worse.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s another controversy that is a shocker. And I`ve got to get you your reaction to this. We`re going to get to the phones, too.

KioMarie Torres Cruz, Casey`s childhood friend, told the "National Enquirer" that she, Casey, and another friend buried childhood pets when they were barely teenagers in the very same spot and in the very same manner as little Caylee`s remains were found.

Quote, "We put the hamster in a plastic Ziploc bag and put that inside a paper bag. On the paper bag, we drew five or six hearts as signs of love and wrote, `We will miss you, Sage`."

It`s just too much of a coincidence. The place, the hearts, the bags. It all adds up.

Drew Findling, as you recall, little Caylee`s remains were found in a hamper and then wrapped again in a garbage bag. The heart sticker was placed on the duct tape that was over the child`s mouth. How incriminating -- if this is true, how incriminating is it?

FINDLING: I think it`s total garbage. And I think this is talking about the purest of hearts. The entire world has descended upon Orlando, Florida, in the quest to find this little girl. And then, when she`s found, to try to determine who`s responsible for her death.

And in the -- more than the 11th hour, all of a sudden somebody comes with information, not to prosecutors, not to the FBI, not to local police...


FINDLING: ... but to the "National Enquirer," waving cash.


FINDLING: It`s a joke. It will be thrown in the garbage can.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, all.

We`re going to have a lot more on Caylee Anthony in just a couple of minutes. Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news from the sports world. Baseball`s biggest star, Alex Rodriguez, admits to taking performance-enhancing drugs. Here is part of the ESPN interview.


ALEX RODRIGUEZ, PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER, NEW YORK YANKEES: I was young. I was stupid. I was naive. And I wanted to prove to everyone that, you know, I was worth -- you know, being one of the greatest players of -- of all time. And I did -- I did take a banned substance. And, you know, for that I`m very sorry and deeply regretful.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody`s wondering how this will affect his Hall of Fame chances. But I want to know how it`s affecting his love life.

You may remember A-Rod was paying secret late-night visits to Madonna`s New York penthouse back in July. He left his wife and kids reportedly -- reportedly to be with the Material Girl. Madonna and Guy Ritchie also split up.

But now Madonna`s been spotted with a hot male model named Jesus. This is true. She`s seen here leaving with her apparent new boyfriend. I want to get a look at that picture. Oh, yes. OK. This photo from The two recently met, apparently on a steamy photo shoot for "W" magazine. Seems steroids are no match for Madonna`s cougar power.

Joining me now, Brooke Anderson, co-host of HLN`s "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."

Brooke, wow. Of course, we want to do the girl talk. We want to talk about the relationship aspect. Two marriages seem to have been torn apart by the A-Rod/Madonna affair. Is it over this soon, and what is going on between Madonna and Jesus? And I can`t believe I just asked that.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": You know, I`m in disbelief that I`m talking about this, too, today Jane.

And I do want to say that A-Rod nor Madonna ever admitted being romantically involved with one another. They denied, denied, denied having that sort of relationship, said that they were just friends. But, you`re right: A-Rod did split from his wife; Madonna did split from her husband. So was it more than a mere coincidence? We may never know.

And in terms of Madonna with this new guy, 22 years old, we don`t know if they`re an item or if it was just something for this steamy photo shoot they did together for "W" magazine. This guy could be Mr. Right. He could be Mr. Right Now. He could be just a model at a photo shoot.

And have you seen the pictures that are coming out in "W" magazine?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have. I wish we could show them, but we`re not able to show them. But they`re -- they`re pretty steamy.

ANDERSON: Woo! They are racy. They are racy. And you`ve got Madonna. She`s 50 years old. And you`ve got this model, who`s 22. And some people say, "Oh, Madonna is having a mid-life crisis."

But others are saying, "No, this is Madonna saying, don`t count me out. I still look good. I can do what I want to do." And here she is being outrageous, trying to garner attention. And she`s a master at marketing herself.

And you know, a lot of people say this is a bad day for A-Rod with the steroid scandal...


ANDERSON: ... and now with Madonna and this "W" magazine photo shoot.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We only have a couple of questions, Brooke, so I want to ask you a yes or no question.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Madonna officially a cougar?

ANDERSON: That`s a good question. Sure, why not?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, OK. We`ll take it. Brooke, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

And don`t forget: you can catch Brooke Anderson on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" at 11 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.

Coming up, the octuplet mess. Octo-mom speaking out. You won`t believe what she`s saying. And the Caylee Anthony case.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More Caylee Anthony shockers surface a day before the slain toddler`s major memorial service. Now one of Casey`s childhood friends is reportedly revealing some shocking similarities between how Caylee`s remains were discovered and how they buried their dead pets as kids.

And she gave birth to octuplets and a whole mess of controversy. Tonight, as the single mother known around the world as octo-mom talks about caring for 14 babies, her mother is slamming her for having so many kids. You will not believe what octo-grandma has to say.

We`ll have all the details as "ISSUES" continues right now.

The very latest on the controversial octuplet births in just a moment.

First, today`s stunning twists in the Caylee Anthony murder case: the first public statement from Casey in jail, and awaiting trial for killing her daughter. In it we find out that Caylee was cremated. And it seems Casey is fuming at her parents, George and Cindy, for not heeding her wishes to bury Caylee in a casket.

Back with me, my fantastic panel: Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist and Joe Navarro, former FBI agent and profiler.

Phone lines lighting up. Marvella in Ohio, you`ve been very patient. Your question or thought, ma`am.

MARVELLA FROM OHIO: I was wondering given the financial status of the family, who is paying for the services of the funeral home? They can be quite costly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you know, this is absolutely fascinating, Joe Navarro. We are told that anonymous donors are paying for the cost of this memorial. And that`s not the only anonymous donors. We`ve also heard in the past that an anonymous family from Connecticut is paying for the defense team`s PR. We don`t know who is paying for the high-profile defense experts. What`s going on here, do you think?

JOE NAVARRO, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, I think in all situations like this, you`re always going to have people coming forth to donate money to help out; people who really feel for -- for the victim.

But I`ll tell you, and in this case in particular, I can see why they`re bringing out the spin doctors and the people to do some perception management because, you know, everything that we see about the -- you know, Caylee`s mother is -- is so suspicious that they`re going to have to work overtime to clean this act up before trial because this is just one of those cases that the jury is going to look at her and it will be like Scott Peterson. There`s just not going to be much sympathy there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to read what Cindy wrote because she wrote a eulogy for Caylee saying that she did not die without a purpose. Quote, "Caylee`s life may have been short-lived on this earth, but her life will not have ended without a purpose. She will be sadly missed but never forgotten. Caylee Marie Anthony now has her angel wings and will be watching over so many other children. Because of this outpouring of compassion, the family will continue to honor Caylee`s memory by establishing the Caylee Marie Anthony foundation. The foundation`s purpose will be to continue to generate awareness for missing children and to establish programs to assist in the well-being of those children in need of comfort and support during these difficult and stressful times."

And I have to applaud Cindy for thinking of others during this time where she could be certainly justified in being very self-centered and being in her own group. She`s trying to make something positive come out of this hellish nightmare. We got to applaud her for that.

Karen in Alabama, question or thought, ma`am.

KAREN FROM ALABAMA: I have a question. I know that everybody thinking that Caylee is guilty, but being the mother of -- I`m sorry -- Casey. Being the mother of Caylee, doesn`t she have any rights to decide how she gets buried or anything like that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Drew Findling, what do you say about that? Because apparently she gave the power to her parents, and now she`s like, "Hey, I`m not pleased with their decisions."

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, the child`s no longer living and she did, you know, kind of bequeathed that responsibility to the parents. She stated, you know, that she -- this is not what she wanted, but she acknowledges that she did give them that responsibility.

You know, Jane, I also want to comment that -- you know, you talked about Cindy and Cindy having compassion. And, you know, listen, I bleed constitutional blue right here, but I must tell you we`re not really getting a message out of this case. And I feel for Cindy, but the message we already know.

And as much as I believe in everything that`s in me that Casey deserves to be defended under the constitution, there`s a separate issue, and that`s the lessons we learn here. But we already know that lesson and that lesson is if your child is missing, you have to report that immediately.

Unfortunately, we didn`t learn anything here. We just learned something that we all already knew.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, I think we`ve learned so many lessons, but perhaps it`s more thrown a spotlight on dysfunctionality. And I think that the main thing is to -- to establish healthy communication between parent and child. I think that would be one of the main lessons.

Let me go back to this Kia Marie Cruz story that was in the "National Enquirer." Because having covered other big cases, the "National Enquirer" has broken stories and just because it was in the "National Enquirer" doesn`t necessarily mean it`s it`s not true.

If it is true and they did bury their pets in that same location using a similar pattern of double wrapping with the heart insignia, how damaging could that be, Drew? I know you think, well, this comes out at a weird time, but if you look back on the O.J. Simpson case, there were prosecution witnesses who were literally taken off the prosecution witness list that were crucial witnesses, giving crucial pieces of information.

For example, the person who says they saw O.J. Simpson near the scene of the murder, because that person sold their story could not be on the witness list. So if this is true, by going on the "National Enquirer," it kind of undermines the very -- the very story she`s trying to tell.

FINDLING: Well, it does. And the law takes care of that; the rules of evidence, whether they by federal or the state of Florida, we`re talking about similarity. That`s what it`s called, similar transactions. And you`re not going to be able to admit something that happened a couple of decades ago to pet animals to a case that`s contemporary in nature that involves somebody`s child. It`s just not going to be admitted.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t understand that. Because if it speaks to her modus operandi and she did this in the very same spot -- and it`s an if -- but if she did this in the very same spot, in the very same manner and it involves a living creature that died, to me it`s extraordinarily incriminating.

Maybe Joe, weigh in on this. Do think that -- let`s say -- I don`t believe that it`s completely irrelevant at all.

NAVARRO: No. Well, one thing I would do is I would take this individual and I would have them describe with particularity -- maybe even draw the item and the similarity of it and at least make an effort to introduce it. I think the prosecutor will make an effort to introduce it; whether or not the judge will do that, that`s his right and his privilege.

But it does go to show that maybe this is -- this individual`s attempt at showing some sort of kindness towards something that has passed away. Now, whether or not that gets introduced, that`s something else.

FINDLING: I think things are going too well for the prosecution in this case to start leaning on the "National Enquirer" for assistance in investigation. It`s too great a risk to run. I don`t think they`re going to do it. I think they`ll run as far away from this sleazy little article.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I think it`s possibly a bad idea to do that because that was exactly the thinking during the O.J. Simpson case when they decided not to call this person who literally alleged that she saw Simpson driving near the murder scene. Dropped that person from the witness list saying, we don`t need that person because we have such an overwhelming case. Well, we all know that O.J. Simpson was acquitted in the criminal trial.

NAVARRO: Well, the difference is did that person get a paycheck? Because I can assure you the "National Enquirer" wrote a nice check to the witness that pops up months and months after they were needed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. This woman, Michelle, is reportedly the same woman who had told cops a long time ago, "Look in that area. We used to hang out there."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it`s not like -- maybe she`s frustrated because they -- they obviously didn`t find the body. There was a meter reader, as we all know, who famously found the child`s body, who also tried to get the police to look there.

GOLLAND: I also think it`s curious about the -- the heart sticker on the tape of the -- of little Caylee`s mouth. And if that is true, that also shows psychologically that whoever did commit the murder was somehow connected and trying to express love to the dead child. So, again --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In a child-like way.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The very way that an immature person who had done that previously with animals --

FINDLING: It also shows that she`s trying to position herself like everybody else, you know, for her book. What`s it going to be? Casey Anthony, the early years -- it happens in every single case. And that`s just what`s happening here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so interesting because I don`t really think just because she told it to the "National Enquirer" automatically makes it not true. Information has no conscience. If it`s true, it`s true. It doesn`t matter who she told it to. She might have had that information and made a misjudgment to tell them because if she does take the stand and she`s going to be cross-examined about the fact that she told the "National Enquirer" and quite possibly or probably sold her story. We don`t know that either.

NAVARRO: Nancy, you also don`t want to overwhelm --


GOLLAND: Yes, you are, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t want to overwhelm the jury, but I don`t think this is overwhelming the jury. Who said it was going to overwhelm the jury?

NAVARRO: One of the things that happens, a prosecutor has to decide what -- how much information can I give to the jury that will convince them. And you don`t want to -- there`s no need to bring in everything into a case. I -- you know, in all the cases I`ve been involved in, we rarely introduced everything.

FINDLING: She will never take the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just thought that was pretty, pretty fascinating. Joe, Drew, Michelle, thank you so much for your insights.

QUICK REMINDER: Nancy Grace is up next. She`s going to have the very latest on the shocking development in the Caylee Anthony case. You don`t want to miss it.

And next here on "ISSUES" I will have an update on Nadya Suleman, that woman who just gave birth to octuplets even though she already has six kids at home that she can barely afford. What the heck was she thinking? Was she thinking? Was the octo-mom getting the money to pay for all those fertility drugs? If so, where and from whom?

1-877-JVM-SAYS; that`s 1-877-586-7297; let me know what you think about this woman, next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More fall-out from the octo-mom interview. I`ll have in just a moment the shocking highlights.

But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.

Hard to believe it`s been almost a month since Chesley Sullenberger III, better known as Sully, safely landed a commercial jet in New York`s Hudson River, saving all 155 people on board. Way to go, Sully.

Today, a fitting ending to the miracle on the Hudson: Sully and the entire flight crew were given keys to New York City by Mayor Michael Bloomberg. The mayor presented the keys to Sully and four other members of the crew of US Airways flight 1549.

Too often we throw around the word "hero" these days. It`s good to see what a true American hero looks like -- heroes all. No mugging for the cameras, no ulterior motives, just a group of ordinary people who acted selflessly and very efficiently under extraordinary pressure. Congrats.

Let`s turn now to the astonishing and bizarre story of octo-mom Nadya Suleman. There is outrage over her decision to add eight babies to a brood of six. According to her own mother, she cannot support them on her own.

Tonight, a California State Medical Board is investigating the doctor who made this happen, at least the last one -- there`s discrepancy. We`ll get to it in a moment.

Plus, the grandmother of these 14 babies is slamming her daughter, saying she cannot afford or handle all of this. Octo-mom Nadya in another installment of her interview with NBC`s Ann Curry claimed past reproductive problems made her go ahead with fertility treatment once again. Listen.


ANN CURRY, NBC ANCHOR: You`re saying, what you did, for the first time was wrong. That you should only do one or two -- one or two at a time.

NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS` MOM: Taking my -- taking my history into consideration, it was very appropriate.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, the 33-year-old single mom and her 14 kids will soon be living with octo-grandma in this cramped three-bedroom home. The angry grandma complained to


ANGELA SULEMAN, NADYA`S MOTHER: She really, really has no idea what she`s doing to her children and to me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have so much to discuss and more stunning video. I want to hear from you. Give me a holler -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1- 877-586-7297.

First, let`s get straight to my expert panel: Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist; Robert Stillman, fertility specialist; and Pete Demetriou, veteran Los Angeles reporter at KFWB News 980. Pete, what is the very latest?

PETE DEMETRIOU, KFWB NEWS 980: The latest on this is that the interview continues. Let`s get away from the mom for a second. Go to the kids. That`s one of the important parts of this story.

No news is good news in this case. The hospital is saying that they`ll have an update on their conditions roughly on Wednesday. As far as we know, the kids are still gaining weight, breathing on their own. There are no obvious medical problems.

As to the actually identity of the clinic that was involved, it was apparently West Coast IVF Clinic. This is apparently located in Beverly Hills.

But the key is, who was the doctor who actually did the implantations? A local television station here has video of one of the doctors there and Nadya from three years ago. There`s no indication he, in fact, was the doctor who did this. Those are part of the issues.

The other thing that comes up as you`ve already alluded to the interview that Angela Suleman gave to radaronline indicating that in some ways the daughter wasn`t quite aware of what she was doing or how she was doing it.

The contradictions here are rather interesting. She says one doctor did all 14 implantations. The mother says, wait a minute, she disagreed. It was a second doctor, and she was angry at him. This actually happened here. There`s a question on the medical board itself. There`s question about how long that`s going to take to actually do a full investigation. That could take a couple of months to really complete.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Pete, you hit the nail on the head. I want to go to Dr. Stillman with this. We`re getting this discrepancy. Octo-mom says one doctor did all 14, which of course sparked a lot of outrage because of ethical questions. But now the mother is saying, "No. I went with my husband and begged one doctor, begged them not to implant any more embryos in this woman. And that my daughter found another doctor."

The way we read it and it`s very confusing, it could be anywhere from one to three doctors involved in all of this. What is your take on all of this?

DR. ROBERT STILLMAN, FERTILITY SPECIALIST: Well, the -- we wish that none of the doctors had participated in something that`s turned out to be such a vast aberration from the norm. And we`re glad the kids are doing well. But the field of reproductive medicine with thousands of embryologists and nurses and physicians, having made great strides in minimizing the risks of multiple pregnancy, have this as a cloud over their heads.

Again, we`re happy for the kids that they`re doing well. What the ethics of the clinic are in doing all these transfers, I think, is something we`ll be discussing in the next few minutes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I have to tell you the grandmother spoke out to She had some choice words for her own daughter. This is wild. Take a listen to this.


A. SULEMAN: To have them all is unconscionable to me. She really, really has no idea what she`s doing to her children and to me.

How she`s going to cope, I really don`t know. I`m really tired of taking care those six. I need her to really think of what she`s going do and how she`s going to provide for these -- all these children.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at these cramped quarters, as scene on According to that grandma, there`s one big bed with two cribs in the master bedroom. The other bedroom has a bed and a crib. The third room has bunk beds. You get the idea.

They can hardly fit the six kids in there; now they`re going to have to fit 14 kids. Michelle Golland, is this a form of child abuse, just based on overcrowding?

GOLLAND: Jane, this is so disturbing to me as a mental health professional. And really at this point and I`m so glad to hear the doctor regarding the infertility --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, we`re going to take a break. Back with your -- finish your thought and phone calls on bizarre octo-mom in a moment. Don`t go anywhere.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re back talking about Nadya Suleman`s outrageous decision to add eight babies to her already large, by any standards, brood of six.

The phone lines are light up. Brenda, West Virginia; question or thought, ma`am?

BRENDA FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Yes, I would like to know whose financing the financial part to take care of her six kids plus these? She`s getting money from somewhere and I would like to know where it is coming from.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to go back to Pete on that and I would like to point out that experts say just to deliver these children and care for them while they`re in the hospital costs anywhere between $1.5 to $3 million, Pete.

DEMETRIOU: Well, you`re talking about the total amount of money on this. The question would be whatever deals are being cut in addition to whatever happened with NBC.

Now, keep in mind, normally news organizations don`t pay for interviews. But the real function is here whether it was the news division that actually arranged for this or whether it was the, quote, "entertainment division" of NBC that may have put someone there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But isn`t it the bigger issue, Pete, that she might get a reality show that would be a long-running reality show or a book deal?

DEMETRIOUS: That`s entirely possible, yes. She could do that. She could get anything. But the question is also marketability here. The contradictions between her story and what her mother`s saying about it is, in my mind, hurting her marketability. People are saying, wait a second. There`s problem here with what we`re getting in the way of information.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right. You`re absolutely right. I talked to somebody in the book industry who said her price is dropping.

GOLLAND: Well, and I have to -- and I have to say, my concern is about the health and the welfare of the children. And whether or not she`s going to have money via book deal or anything, to me at this point, there should be an investigation opened for child services. I mean truthfully.


GOLLAND: I as a mental health professional am seriously concerned and there`s a lot of topic on how she`s going do this physically and emotionally and financially. But truthfully we have now her one biggest support saying I don`t want anything to do with it. I mean I really think L.A. County Children Services needs do an investigation right now on the children at home, the six of them.

And those eight babies should not be brought into that home unless it is shown by this family whether with friends or family or the church or a book deal or I don`t care what that they can actually physically and financially care for these children. We have laws against neglect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that would a true, true tragedy all the way around. If not only are these children are born prematurely that they`re then taken away from their mother. This would be a Shakespearean tragedy - -

GOLLAND: I would not be surprised, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it may be what has to happen. Thank you for those insights.

We have to go. We`re out of time. But we`re going to talk about this more soon.

I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell and you are watching "ISSUES" on HLN.