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New Photos of Casey Anthony Released; Could Mystery Man Shed Light on Missing Girl?

Aired March 24, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we will show you the scandalous new party photos of Casey Anthony, leaked just one day before two private eyes are set to be deposed in the civil case against her. How will Casey`s legal teams react?

And we`ll have expert analysis of Casey`s damning cell phone records the day Caylee went missing. Casey said she was at work, but cell phone tracking indicates she was hanging around her patient`s house and at several remote looks the next day. Was she scouting places to dump her daughter`s body?

Then stunning news in the search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Authorities reportedly investigating a mysterious man known as Greg. He is alleged to have been with Misty the very night Haleigh vanished. Could this be a massive break in the case?

And intense closing arguments in the Phil Specter murder retrial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man who was fueled by alcohol ignites into what has been described as a demonic maniac.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charged in the 2003 shooting death of beautiful actress Lana Clarkson, Specter portrayed by the prosecution as a sadistic celebrity bent on torturing women. Today the defense responds. I`ll show you their closing arguments.

Plus, Octomom says, "Thanks, but no thanks" to free child care from Angels in Waiting. But did she fire them because of a grudge over famed attorney Gloria Allred, who first paired Suleman with the non-profit? We`ll play the bizarre 911 call that could shed light on Suleman`s decision.

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, shocking new evidence in the case against Casey Anthony. Just released, raunchy, and I mean raunchy new photos of Casey Anthony which show the alleged murder`s very wild side, and I mean very.

The pictures, released on RadarOnline show Casey Anthony sharing a passionate kiss with another young woman before jumping on a guy for a quick lap dance. The images are from 2006, when little Caylee was just 14 months old.

Can these revealing photos be used against her in the murder trial? And could these photos, exclusive to entertainment outlet RadarOnline, come up in tomorrow`s court hearing?

Casey will be back in court tomorrow to hear her attorneys argue about any book or movie deal they may or may not have made. Could any deals influence the case or be a conflict of interest for her defense attorney?

Plus, we will track Casey Anthony`s cell phone records from the very day investigators say little Caylee Anthony was murdered, June 16. Casey told her dad, George Anthony, she went to work that day, but the records tell a much different story. Casey hung around the Anthony home for hours. Just what was she doing during that uninterrupted time?

Meanwhile, the Zenaida Gonzalez defamation case against Casey heats up. Two private eyes who have worked with the Anthony family, Dominic Casey and James Hoover, set to be deposed tomorrow. What will their testimony reveal?

So many issues, but first, my fantastic panel: Mark Nejame, former attorney for George and Cindy Anthony; Drew Findling, and Atlanta criminal defense attorney; Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator; and Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney. Plus, and do we need one tonight, Terry Lyle, psychologist.

Terry, we have to start with you. Let`s get a psychological analysis of these shocking new photos showing Casey first making out with a young woman and then giving a young man a lap dance at the very same party? Would you agree that this is kind of indiscriminate hyper-sexuality that has a somewhat manic quality to it?

TERRY LYLE, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think you`re probably pretty close to that, because what happens is, I mean, you`re seeing something in her life that obviously wasn`t manifested to, possibly, even her parents and others around her that knew that side of her.

I guess the question comes up as, you know, what kind of a parent was she and the responsibility thing that we talked about on other shows really comes up here, not being around, you know, her daughter and out partying and acting like, you know, a 22-, 23-year-old girl. But yet the responsibility issue I think is something that`s really going to have to be looked at.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I guess I was looking more at underneath all this manic behavior, what is going from a psychological standpoint? Is there anger? Is there acting out because of discomfort?

Let me say that this was 2006. About a year later, Casey told a friend she thought she was having a nervous breakdown. Do you see in these photos a person who is headed, perhaps, toward a nervous breakdown?

LYLE: Well, I don`t know about a nervous breakdown, but obviously, she`s running away from her responsibilities in her life. So many times, people that feel, you know, that kind of pressure under stress run away to try to hide and sometimes take on another lifestyle that hardly anybody else knows about. And that`s kind of what it looks like, that she`s kind of living this duality of life, because she`s running from possibly, you know, her mom situation and her own daughter`s situation. And, you know, now we`re seeing that side of her exposed even more so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Double life, toxic secrets, always at the center of very sad, tragic situations.

Let`s take another look at the racy photos of Casey released today on RadarOnline. Specifically, these pictures show a very wild side of Casey. In this one she`s kissing another young woman, nothing wrong with that, but this is a wild party situation where moments later she appears to be giving a man a lap dance. So at this point, her little daughter is 14 months old. That`s the issue here.

Rebecca Rose Woodland, can these photos be introduced as evidence in the criminal case, given that a motive could be that she wanted to party; she didn`t want the responsibility of being a parent to a toddler?

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I think it`s quite a stretch, Jane, to show photos of one night where she may have had a babysitter. The baby may have been with her parents.

Is she wild in these photos? Arguably, yes, but that doesn`t mean that she`s a bad mother; nor does it mean that she killed her child. That`s the -- the prosecution would have to prove the prejudicial value versus the importance to the case, and I think it will be very difficult for the prosecution to say this is more important than prejudicial to the defendant, if I were her attorney.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, this is not the first time we`ve seen photos like this. We`ve seen wild photos of her partying over and over again. Is there a cumulative effect here where somebody could say, ultimately, "Yes, this is relevant?"

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, no, there really isn`t, because another characteristic you have to look at is whether or not it indicates a bent of mind, that is a disposition to harbor away and kill your child. And clearly, going out partying has nothing to do with harboring away and killing your child.

Now, the flip side is, first of all, it`s completely irrelevant. It won`t be admitted. But let`s say it is admitted, and let`s say that the defense says, "Sure, admit it. The reason why they may admit it is, `Hey, look, when her child was alive, she certainly went out and partied. She made out with girls. She made out with guys. She lap danced, and she had no reason to secret away her child and kill her child, because she had just as much fun when her child was alive." So that`s something the defense may come back with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a very interesting tack that you`re taking there, and maybe -- maybe they`ll use that if these do get entered, but I agree. I think the chance of them being entered into evidence is remote.

The cell phone records released as part of all this new evidence could be, however, particularly damaging to the defense. They will undoubtedly get in. They show Casey`s location on the very day she may have killed. Plus, very important following day information. Let`s analyze this.

The cell records show that on Monday, June 16, the last day Caylee was seen alive, and the day that little Caylee may have been killed, Casey stayed in the area of her parents` home until 4 p.m. although her dad George stated she left at noon to go to work. Of course, we later learned she didn`t have a job to go to.

Later that same day, Casey was spotted at a Blockbuster video, and records show she spent the night at her boyfriend`s, Anthony Lazarro`s, apartment. No Caylee anywhere.

Tuesday afternoon, the 17th, things start to get really fishy. Casey returned to her parent`s home at about 2 p.m. At 2:45, Casey drove around the area of the Orlando International Airport. At about 4:30 p.m. Casey drove around the remote area surrounding the University of Central Florida before finally returning to her boyfriend`s apartment for the night. Wow!

I`d like to get the analysis of Steve Kardian. You`re a criminal investigator. Does it look like -- can the prosecution argue, "Hey, she killed the child and she was looking for a place to dump the body"?

STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: That`s something that I`m sure they`re seriously looking at. I mean, they did a historical recovery of her phone records, and it`s kind of like using your credit card, Jane. Every time you use it, you`re going to receive information that`s going to show the number dialed. You`re going to see the date and time, and you`re going to show the tower and the sector that that tower is hit on. So you can follow it around all day as long as she keeps using that cell phone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but I guess what I`m saying, and maybe I`ll go back to Rebecca Rose Woodland on this. It does seem very odd the day after little Caylee was last seen that, suddenly, Casey Anthony is driving around these remote areas? For what reason?

WOODLAND: I don`t know. I mean, we will find out, if these -- of course, these records will be admitted. And there may be a possibility that there is a reason. I don`t know that they`ll put her on the stand, so we may never hear the reason.

But again, that`s all circumstantial. Well, she drove around. Maybe she was just taking a ride. Maybe these are places she goes regularly. Maybe she stopped by to get a coffee somewhere. I mean, there are always reasonable excuses for behavior.


FINDLING: I don`t want to grade anybody`s paper, but this has been a theme of mine consistently when you and I talk about this case. and that is I would agree with the last statement, but for this is not a defense team that has remained silent and is waiting to give us their extensive theory at trial. They`ve been talking to the media constantly, and they`ve married themselves to the absolutely ridiculous statement that their client has made. These statements are stupid. That`s what they are. They`re stupid.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re talking about Zanny took the baby?

FINDLING: Exactly. Exactly. And looking for a job at Universal Studios. These statements are ridiculous. And the defense have married themselves to those statements. So as long as they remain married, and it`s probably too late, unless the defense team changes. They are relevant and they`re damning the cell phone records that showed the towers. They`re damning them.

There would not have been -- I repeat, there would not have been -- but for the defense has married themselves to all of the ridiculous statements that Casey has made.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mark Nejame, I know that you can`t really talk about the specifics of the case, but do you feel in general that any particular defense has been decided on or is essentially, we`re going to have to wait and see what happens in the courtroom because we could be in for a big surprise?

MARK NEJAME, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR ANTHONYS: Yes, I mean, your last -- excuse me, your last panelist hit it on the head. They have made these statements repeatedly. The defense team of which I was never a part of, but they made these statements repeatedly, and they`re somewhat stuck with them. It wouldn`t surprise me if they switch it out at the last second, attempting to catch the prosecution off guard. But they`re going to -- some of these statements they`ve been making are very damning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, more analysis from my expert panel in just moments. Stunning new reports in the Haleigh Cummings disappearance. Authorities reportedly investigating a man who was with Misty Croslin the night Haleigh vanished. Is this the big break everybody`s been waiting for?

But first, scandalous new pictures bolster Casey Anthony`s party girl image. Does that mean she`s guilty of murder, however? Her defense team doesn`t think so.


JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: We feel our client`s innocent, and we want to her to have her day in court. She wants her day in court, and I know that`s a hard thing for everyone to believe here, but she is innocent.




BAEZ: I want to state for the record and be clear, I have absolutely no book deals or no entertainment deals or any contingency fees of the kind with anyone, and any implication of that is just simply a false rumor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, back in January denying any rumors of book or movie deals. We will see what he has to say tomorrow when he and Casey are back in court to discuss any possible entertainment deals.

I am back with my expert panel. I want to go back out to Mark Nejame, who was George and Cindy Anthony`s attorney, no longer.

You were making an excellent point about the defense possibly locking themselves in. You just saw Jose Baez. He is talking a lot. Do you think that, overall, that has been a mistake?

NEJAME: I wouldn`t have done it. I don`t know why one would talk so much and get yourself stuck in a certain position, particularly when it appears, apparently, he`s got a client that has said many, many things that clearly are not factually correct.

Circumstantial evidence case. The state`s going to run a timeline on this, and they`re going to show all the inconsistencies. And without an eyewitness, and without a confession, all of these inconsistencies are going to be very, very harmful to anybody who`s made them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Drew Findling, getting back to your point, because I think it is a crucial point. The idea that they`ve locked themselves into Zanny the nanny, even though it looks like some of the discovery could -- and the things that the defense is looking for, that they might be trying to pin it on someone else. That they might be -- oh, the ex- boyfriend this and ex-boyfriend that.

Do they really have that maneuvering room if they`ve all said Zanny took the baby?

FINDLING: I don`t think they do. You know, this case started, the original charge, the original indictment was charges that were for neglectful parenting. And all of this behavior is consistent with neglectful parenting. You can be a neglectful parent and take a hit on the case there and not necessarily be a murderer. And they could have left the statements where they were.

You know, when you represent celebrities and you work with real P.R. firms from Manhattan, the one thing they tell you, because as a lawyer, you know, Jane, you want to do press conferences when they win. The one thing P.R. firms tell you is great job done. Keep your mouth shut. Go away. You earned your fee. Now disappear, Mr. Findling.

And that`s what lawyers have to do, because at some point, even though jurors would be reminded at trial, they`re constantly being reminded about the nanny. They`re constantly being reminded about the nanny. And you get locked in with it, and it doesn`t go away. And it`s not going to leave jurors. Whether they`re in Florida or they`re in Utah, they`re stuck with it. Unless they change defense teams that say we`re the new people on the block, but I don`t see that happening.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unless the defense seeks mitigating pain (ph). The only thing they`re getting out of it is publicity, which brings us to tomorrow.

Tomorrow is a big day in the civil case against Casey Anthony. Attorneys for Zenaida Gonzalez, the woman who claims her livelihood was destroyed when her name was associated with Caylee`s disappearance, set to depose two men who have been private investigators for the Anthony family: Dominic Casey and James Hoover.

Now, the investigators were hired to search for Caylee at the time of her disappearance. Dominic Casey even searched the very same woods where little Caylee`s remains were later found. He said he went there after getting a tip from a psychic and after hearing one of Casey`s friends say they used to hang out there as kids.

But Rebecca Rose Woodland, would the attorneys for Zenaida Gonzalez be grilling these two about whether anybody else led them there, since they worked for the Anthonys?

I want to say, I`m not saying the Anthonys knew the child`s body was there. I have absolutely no evidence or knowledge of that, but it is quite a coincidence that they were videotaping in the very area where little Caylee`s remains were later found, and they happened to be private eyes working with the Anthony family.

WOODLAND: It is a coincidence. Apparently, they have reasonable excuses, that someone told them that`s where she hung out.

Where -- what I think the question is, once her friend told you where they hung out, what connected that to make you think that`s where the body would be? That`s the big question. Why did you think that then? Did you have any speculation about the mother?

And a psychic, well, I guess that can be confirmed. What psychic, where and when did they talk to her? This kind of -- that`s basic information. I think some of the other information is, well, why did they lead to that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to jump ahead because we`ve to get to the next thing. Big day in court tomorrow. Casey Anthony expected back in court. Prosecutors expected to argue that Casey and company, her attorneys, need to explain where they got the money to afford this dream team. And we`ll show you some pictures of the dream team, just a really, really powerful team of defense attorneys and experts.

So Drew Findling, what -- Jose Baez says he`s not making any deals at all. He`s not making deals, period. Yet, the prosecution is claiming he`s managing Casey Anthony`s assets. Is there any possible conflict there?

FINDLING: Well, the conflict would be if the motivation to go to trial, for example, were not to prove the client`s innocence, but rather because that would -- that would increase the value of a book or increase the value of a movie. If you compromise, if you compromise your motivation, then you have a conflict and that`s the issue.

Now that being said, I think this is really none of the prosecution`s business.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`ll see what happens tomorrow. We`re going to cover it. I want to thank my excellent panel.

Huge developments in the disappearance of Haleigh Cummings. Cops reportedly investigating a man who was with Misty the same night Haleigh vanished. I will have an update.

An in an odd twist, Octomom does a 180 and rejects free child care from Angels in Waiting. I will play you the 911 call that could shed light on her decision, next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the spotlight tonight, the desperate search for Haleigh Cummings. Stunning news about Misty Croslin, the child bride of Haleigh`s father, Ron. Did Misty`s actions on the very night that little Haleigh vanished have anything to do with this tragedy or everything to do with it?

More possible inconsistencies in Misty`s story starting to surface. Now a mystery man named Greg is reportedly in the picture. Was Misty with Greg on the night of Haleigh`s abduction? A lot of questions tonight.

Who better to answer them than T.J. Hart, program and news director of WSKY-FM 97.3, who joins me by phone?

T.J., tell us all about this guy, Greg. How did we learn about him? What`s his story?

T.J. HART, WSKY-FM: Well, Greg was a person who came up in conversation with an interview I conducted with William Colbert Straubs (ph). He`s a bondsman/bounty hunter and investigating the case, he claims on his own, in the Satsuma area on his own search for Haleigh Cummings.

And he told me that in a conversation with Ron on the night that they were to re-enact the evening of the disappearance of the young girl, that he had known that Misty perhaps had shared company with a young man named Greg and that he had been -- she had possibly been with him a week before the disappearance and possibly again the night of the disappearance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, how is it possible that this private eye/bounty hunter comes up with this information when he had small armies or even large armies of investigators and FBI and all sorts of law enforcement poring over this case for the last six weeks?

HART: Very good question, Jane. And the answer is quite simple. The private investigator is not bound by the U.S. Constitution nor is it bound by any other laws that protect privacy that also govern our police and investigative units throughout the United States all of the way down to your hometown. He can question anybody, and he can reveal information at will.

And he doesn`t have to ask anybody for a search warrant. He does face possible trespass, should he be messing around, but he doesn`t also have to advise anybody of their rights. So we`re working with two different sets of powers here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess what I`m asking is did the cops know about this Greg? Does he really exist? Could this be another fiction and another wild goose chase?

HART: Actually, we have it confirmed through Putnam County Sheriff`s Office. The contact had been made with this young man named Greg, but they`re not going any further in saying anything about this, other than it is an ongoing investigation. So we do have some confirmation that things are moving at least in that direction and probably in several others.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, does this dove tail in any way with what little Ron Jr. said about the person who he claimed he saw abduct little Haleigh?

HART: It could, but that is up to speculation at this point, and I`m not willing to speculate. I`m just getting a report on facts that this moment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, where is this guy? If he exists, if this guy Greg was there that night, if he could be a crucial aspect to this case, I would assume that cops have done everything in their power to track him down. Has he been interviewed?

HART: He`s a local person, and he has been contacted. So we`re going on the assumption that he has been interviewed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is he considered a person of interest? Yes or no.

HART: This is what the police are saying. I can`t tell you that today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Say that again.

HART: Those were the exact words today when I got off the phone with them, "We cannot tell you that today."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it. T.J., please come back soon. Love your reporting.

Switching gears, Octomom Nadya Suleman, after accepting Angels in Waiting`s free offer, she now does a 180 and opts out. More chaos next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Octo-mom does a 180 and rejects free child care from "Angels in Waiting," but did she fire them because of a grudge against famed attorney Gloria Allred who first paired Suleman with a non-profit.

And intense closing arguments to the Phil Spector murder retrial charged in the 2003 shooting death of stunning actress Lana Clarkson. Spector portrayed by the prosecution as a demonic maniac bent on torturing women. I`ll have the dramatic details.

The latest on the octo-circus and ringmaster, Nadya Suleman, in just moment. But first, Casey Anthony due back in court tomorrow; a hearing scheduled to explore any possible conflicts of interest that may develop if the defense has any book or movie deals in the works.

I am back with my fantastic criminal defense attorney Drew Findling.

Drew, we have been looking at these photos; these shocking new photos that have just been released by Radar Online. Here you see Casey Anthony back in 2006 making out with a young woman and here you see at the same party apparently just moments later, Casey Anthony giving a young man a lap dance.

Certainly the defense could not be behind the release of these photos because these could potentially hurt her with the potential jury pool out there. This would probably be something that would come from a friend who was at this party who took the photos.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This was probably from somebody that`s trying to profit. We live in a lotto mentality and it doesn`t make a difference what case we`re talking about; the criminal case and then the civil case against Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson and this.

There`s a lot of mentality out there when people have these pictures there`s always people willing to pay. And nobody is thinking when that it`s going to compromise a jury pool for her because it will. Because they are inadmissible and this isn`t a custody battle where a picture like this is relevant.

Nevertheless, this is now going to take probably another three or four days in jury selection, just about these pictures alone. So somebody`s profiting, but the people in the state of Florida we paying a little bit with taxes for how many jurors they`ll go through.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there`s a big disconnect between the prosecution and the defense. The prosecution is going to court tomorrow and Casey is going to be there and saying hey, we think the defense is making deals, and the defense, Jose Baez saying we`re not making deals. Somebody`s wrong.

FINDLING: Well, the prosecution really needs to be careful, and I`ve said this over and over again. This case is so good, I do not understand why they`re playing games with situations like this, why they`re creating 6th and 14th amendment issues on the right to counsel.

They are bordering on legal issues they need to stay away from because that`s the kind of issue that can blow up in their face. Three years from right now if they get Baez removed and you have the right to choose your own counsel. They need to stay away from it unless -- unless they have hard documents proving otherwise, they need to stay away.

Now, if they have hard documents, Jane, a different ball game.


Thank you so much, Drew. By the way, Casey Anthony back in court tomorrow. Here on ISSUES we will be all over it, so watch tomorrow.

Tonight, backlash over octo-mom`s shocking decision to fire "Angels in Waiting;" the mother of 14 who has already raised questions about whether she can handle six is now saying no, thank you, to free round the clock child care. Is she putting her clan of kids at risk just because she has a grudge against attorney Gloria Allred who brokered the arrangements with "Angels in Waiting?"

Take a listen to this, it`s a 911 call placed by Suleman`s private nanny on March 17th, the very day Nadya brought the first two babies home from the hospital. Listen.


NANNY: Yes, I`d like to have somebody removed from the home that I`m at right now.

OPERATOR: Who is it?

NANNY: Gloria Allred.

OPERATOR: Ok, do they live there?

NANNY: No, they`re just --

OTHER CALLER: -- wanting that person removed, they need to --

NANNY: Yes, this is the home of Nadya Suleman and she`s just kind of being a nuisance.


NANNY: She`s not authorized to be here.

OPERATOR: Who are you?

NANNY: I`m a nanny. I`m her nanny.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what is next for the octo-family? Who will care for these kids?

Back with me criminal defense attorney, Drew Findling; Terry Lyles, clinical psychologist; and also joining me and thrilled to have HLN`s very own A.J. Hammer host of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."

A.J., what do we know about the stunning decision by Nadya Suleman to nix "Angels in Waiting" and how does it involve Dr. Phil and famed attorney Gloria Allred.

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, HLN`S "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Well, we know my head is about to explode, Jane. And I can`t believe this. I mean, what`s going on here? Free care and specialized in dealing with all these kids, something like $180,000 a month in value and apparently -- apparently Nadya Suleman has this problem as you mentioned with famed attorney Gloria Allred who brought "Angels in Waiting" to the table.

She represents "Angels in Waiting" and she says here, let me hook you up with this organization so you can get all the free care and the kids will be taken care of. Well, as we heard in that 911 call, Nadya doesn`t even want Gloria Allred in the house.

And now she`s saying basically through her attorney and spokesperson that because Gloria Allred was filing a complaint with Child Protective Services before she accepted the free care from Angels in Waiting she can`t get past that and she`s got a problem with it.

And now remember, two weeks ago, Dr. Phil had a big summit on his show we got Gloria together with Nadya and "Angels in Waiting" and got everybody to sit down and for Nadya to actually agree yes, the kid comes first.

Well, guess what, apparently, she decided not first enough to keep that free care on. And now she`s going to somehow be hiring her own nannies, go figure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe because she can afford it, A.J. We all saw had the paparazzi swarm outside octo-mom`s house a week ago when she brought the first two babies home.

Check out this video -- you`ve got to watch carefully of Nadya inside her house. As I was watching this video of Nadya, make her way up the stairs, I noticed something very interesting.

Take a closer look. There is a mob of media inside the house, too. So Terry Lyles, apparently one nurse from Angels in Waiting reportedly filed a complaint with Child Services saying there are too many people in the house. Isn`t she right?

TERRY LYLES, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, absolutely. I think what you have is octo-mom being an attention-seeking person. She`s seeking this attention and having nannies paid for as was just mentioned. That`s too much calmness and some people create drama.

I mean, come on, she had these eight children knowing that she was going have these eight children. That`s not normal thinking in the way that I look at it especially not in this economy.


LYLES: There`s something wrong with that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s part two of the 911 call placed by octo-mom`s private nanny in order to have attorney Gloria Allred removed from Suleman`s home. Listen.


OPERATOR: Why is she there?

NANNY: She just walked in and they really don`t want her in the home.

OPERATOR: And you`ve asked her to leave and she`s refusing?

NANNY: Yes, they`ve asked her to leave already.

OPERATOR: Who has asked her? Is Nadya there?

NANNY: No, she`s not here yet, but she`s getting ready to come home.

OPERATOR: Ok. I`ll send someone over as soon as I can.

NANNY: Thank you so much.


OPERATOR: Bye-bye.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: As A.J. mentioned Gloria Allred had previously filed a complaint with Child Protective Services when Nadya Suleman simply refused to deal with "Angels in Waiting" and eventually she came around.

So to me, Drew Findling, that`s no reason to be angry at Gloria Allred. Gloria Allred is fighting for the rights of these kids. Her concern is for the very children that belong to Nadya Suleman.

FINDLING: You know as many times as I`ve debated on TV with Gloria, she really stepped up. Now, that being said, with regard to Nadya are we dealing with somebody normal? We`re dealing with somebody that`s far from normal.

Now, I want to say one thing and that is I feel for these eight children. I feel for these 14 children but Gloria needs to tuck that money and that support away because in the weeks since these children were born so many young children that have been injured in car accidents, parents have been killed all over this country are waiting for "Angels" to come help them.

I hope that this money will be made available to people that welcome it and aren`t part of what I talked about a few minutes ago, the lotto mentality because that`s what Nadya is all about, this is all about her and how this is going to make her rich and profitable.

This isn`t about love of children. If anybody thinks that -- then I have well, there`s a lot of property buyer in the country.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, A.J. Hammer, you saw that video of -- at the bottom of the stairs...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...a whole bunch of media there. Who are those people and are they paying to be there?

HAMMER: Yes, I don`t really understand exactly how the situation is working out. We are getting no official word in terms of who is being paid. But I`m also thinking Dr. Phil has got to be feeling kind of like a chump right now, don`t you think?

I mean, he did this show, and he had her on and got her tons of exposure which she seems to love. She said all of the right things and people were offering her free stuff left and right and then she goes and does this.

Well, she is taping a show reportedly with Dr. Phil today and we`re going to see that tomorrow and actually get to the bottom of some of this and hopefully it doesn`t make any sense at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well A.J., could this be another part of this drama though, on Dr. Phil with "Angels in Waiting" making charges that there are too many people there. And then Nadya defending herself and Dr. Phil coming in and saying settle down, everybody and try to bring them back together. I mean, do you think maybe she could be convinced to change her mind?

HAMMER: Yes, we could hope at this point but I agree with what your guest said about "Angels in Waiting" has other people they can be servicing and dealing with. It`s kind of you`re damned if you do and you`re damned if you don`t situation because again, these eight children, the 14 children all together really are who should come first. I kind of think Dr. Phil needs to move on.


HAMMER: And Jane, I don`t want to get too kumbaya on you, but with what`s happening with our economy, there are a lot of blue collar families around this country that have six, seven, eight kids with two unemployed parents right now. And boy I`d love for Dr. Phil to go settle in and have a rap session with those families because he wouldn`t need to spend more than five seconds to hook up with Gloria Allred.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And maybe people have to think about responsible parenting and that this woman that we`re look at right now is really an example of how not to parent in the 21st century...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... when we have millions of kids, literally, dying of starvation and malnutrition and who are orphaned around the world and if you love kids so much and you`re imitating Angelina Jolie, adopt a couple of kids.

Drew, A.J., Terry, thank you so very much. Come back soon.

From pseudo-celebrity Nadya Suleman to sadistic celebrity Phil Spector; at least that`s how prosecutors describe him, defense closing arguments continue today, in Phil Spector`s outrageous murder retrial. I will have the shocking details, but first, here is the prosecution laying in to Spector yesterday.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man who was fueled by alcohol, confronted by a loss of control ignites; ignites into what has been described as a demonic maniac.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Intense courtroom drama as jurors hear closing arguments in Phil Spector`s murder retrial. I will have an update momentarily, but first "Top of the Block" tonight.

36-year-old Nancy Moyer has been missing for almost three weeks. The Washington State mother of two was last seen March 6th after dropping off a co-worker from work. In a very troubling sign, when she was reported missing her credit cards, driver`s license and car were all at her home.

Intensive searches with bloodhounds and cadaver dogs have come up empty. Cops have no suspects and are conducting their investigation as a homicide. Moyer is separated from her husband who has been questioned but is not considered a suspect.

The family offering a $55,000 reward for information leading to her return. We will have much more on this story tomorrow right here on ISSUES. That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."

A seismic moment today in the Phil Spector murder retrial. Intense -- and I mean intense -- closing arguments reached a fever pitch as Spector`s defense fired back at prosecutors` verbal onslaught.

Music mogul Phil Spector charged in the 2003 -- that`s right, more than six years ago, 2003 -- shooting death of beautiful actress Lana Clarkson. He was portrayed by the prosecution as a maniac who had threatened five women with guns over the decades, a sadistic celebrity bent on torturing women. Lana was described as a lamb entering the lion`s den.


TRUC DO, LOS ANGELES DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Lana did not know very much about Phil Spector. She knew very little. She did not know the real Phil Spector.

She did not know that behind that VIP was a very dangerous man. A man who believed that all women are [ bleep ] and deserved a bullet in their head. A man who was fueled by alcohol, confronted by a loss of control ignites, ignites into what has been described as a demonic maniac of impulsive rage, impulsive anger and impulsive violence.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now that`s a closing argument. Clarkson died just hours after she met Spector at the House of Blues in west Hollywood. Spector claims she shot herself because she was depressed. Prosecutors say he shot her after a romantic encounter went awry.

Clarkson was found dead at Spector`s California castle -- that`s right, he lives in a castle, people. She had a gun shot wound through the roof of her mouth.

Last time jurors deadlocked on a murder conviction and a lesser charge, involuntary manslaughter on the table for this trial.

Joining me now -- fantastic panel: Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; and somebody I`m very, very fond of, Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels; plus, John Baird reporter with KNX 1070 news radio in Los Angeles.

John, let`s start with you. What`s the very latest on these closing arguments?

JOHN, REPORTER KNX 1070 NEWS RADIO: This morning Phil showed up in his suit and his wig. He went into the court and he basically sat and looked straight ahead. He was very quiet. He didn`t look at the jury.

His attorney began final arguments today. He said it seems like Phil did this; it looks like Phil did this. But I think he`s innocent, and I ask you to be objective. And he says that the prosecution has not proven this case.

These arguments could go on today and it`s possible that the jury could end up getting this case tomorrow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Curtis Sliwa, what makes me sick to my stomach is that he has never spent a night in jail. This happened more than six years ago. In the original trial the defense actually blamed the victim and came up with a very elaborate and colorful way of saying that she was suicidal.

I mean, who goes to a stranger`s house to commit suicide? I just met you, I`m going go to your house and commit suicide, but yet two jurors bought it.

CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Well, you know, it`s interesting, the most probably fascinating part of the testimony was the chauffeur. Chauffeurs are like priests, rabbis, lawyers and shrinks. They know everything that goes on with the freaky-deaky (ph) mindset of their clients.

And here was the chauffeur that came forward and said, "Hey, if Phil Spector came running out of the house. I saw the woman she was sitting on the chair bloody and Phil said I think I killed her." And then the defense attorney does the spin and say, "He`s suffering from post traumatic shock. He has no idea in terms of what his memory is and his primary language is Portuguese, so he probably didn`t even understand English."

He was good enough to drive Phil Spector around but not good enough to understand English instructions and he`s the guy who first called 911 so that the police could be summoned. And yet the defense completely tried to dismiss him as a verifiable witness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not only that, they said the fountain was too loud for him to have heard Phil Spector. It`s absolutely crazy.

Prosecutors painted a picture for the jury of Phil Spector`s world, a very strange world indeed. A world that has different rules than most of us live in. Let`s listen.


DO: It is a world where money and fame buys you the VIP treatment, gets you behind the velvet rope and has everyone at your beck and call. It is a world where you are treated golden by everyone. It is Phil Spector`s world.

It is a world where a woman who calls 911 from a hotel to report that she`s been assaulted with a gun is quietly put on a train to leave town because her assailant is a VIP at that hotel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not just a VIP at that hotel, a VIP In general. Again, he never spent a night in jail.

This is Lana Clarkson, an actress who was in "Barbarian Queen," a woman who was very much loved by her friends. The defense did get in the last trial, a turncoat friend to say that she was depressed named a "pumpkin pie." John, was that turncoat friend in this trial, too?

BAIRD: That, I don`t know. I wasn`t in the courtroom today. One of my colleagues was in there, listening to the final arguments which are going to continue, by the way, throughout the rest of the day and possibly into tomorrow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to tell you that I know that the family of Lana Clarkson has waited a long time for justice. They have sat here as they lost their beautiful daughter who was a struggling but yet a very, very free-spirited and according to most reports, happy, young woman who worked very hard. And they had to wait for six years for justice.

And we`ll see if they get it. This week, we`re going to stay on top of this case.

Much more on these intense closing arguments in the Phil Spector murder retrial. Here he is sporting a much different hair-do entering court for the first murder trial.



DO: Lana just happened to be the sixth woman who got the bullet. Lana`s is a murder that was waiting to happen in Phil Spector`s world of conscious disregard for human life. That is what this case is about.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Five women testified that Phil Spector in the past had pulled guns on them. The commonality was when they tried to leave his presence.

Rebecca Rose Woodland, he faces up to 18 years if he gets second degree. But here`s what I`m worried about, if he gets involuntary manslaughter it only carries two to four. What are the criteria for those two?

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Jane, the problem in this case is the first trial was a miscarriage of justice in my opinion. I`m fully -- I`m constitutional. You are innocent until proven guilty. In that first trial, to me he was proven guilty of murder.

So now he`s only facing two years of involuntary manslaughter because we had two people who held out ands there was a mistrial. To believe that she would put a gun in her own mouth in the house of a man she doesn`t know because she was depressed is absolutely ridiculous. And I think it`s unfortunate that he`s only facing the time he`s facing now, quite frankly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, unless he gets the 18 years, right?

WOODLAND: Well, 18 years is better than nothing. But I do believe in the first case that I believe murder was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, we have a double standard in this country, one for the rich and one for the poor. Once again this guy`s never spent a night in jail. He`s been living in his castle the entire time. He got bailed out before he even had to sleep overnight.

SLIWA: He got the Bernie Madoff treatment as all freakazoids, jetsetters and trendoids get in Hollywood. Now because Phil Spector originally was from the streets, there he would be considered crazy he`d be on his way back to vacaville (ph) for the criminally insane, but when you are rich, wealthy and from Hollyweird you`re considered eccentric. It`s almost like you are given license to do this.

Meantime, actresses and actors, 98 percent of them are not working in their field of endeavor. They`re always depressed because they`re not stars and starlets yet. So what is this defense attorney talking about? This is absolute nonsense. This guy deserves the juice in his caboose in San Quentin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it. Thank you, Curtis.

Absolutely. If being an unemployed actor is the definition depression, there are a very, very number of depressed people in Hollywood, California. As we all know most of the waiters in Hollywood, California, are actors and they need to be respected.

It`s a tough profession. This is really a Hollywood tragedy. You know the starlet past her prime meets the crazy recluse past his prime, yikes.

Thank you to my fabulous panel for joining me tonight. Come back soon. I want to see you again, Curtis.

I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell and you`re watching ISSUES on HLN.