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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Crime Scene Evidence Examined in Nevaeh`s Murder; Police Search for Mother, Sex Offender
Aired June 10, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, to catch a killer. The murder of 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan is priority No. 1 for Michigan cops. They are putting thousands of other cases on the back burner to find justice for little Nevaeh.
Also, new details emerge on burial plans for the adorable child. As her mother`s two sex-offender friends head back to prison to finish their long sentences.
Then another mother possibly endangers her young daughter by befriending a convicted sex offender. Three-year-old Haylee Donathan, last seen two weeks ago with her mom and her mom`s boyfriend, Robby Potter, convicted of sexual battery and recently released from prison. Cops now furiously hunting for the couple, hoping to safely recover the young girl.
Plus, beautiful Tracy Ocasio, missing now for two weeks. A torrent of new hits as cop expand the search into nearby woods and ponds. The man last seen with Tracy is person of interest James Hataway, behind bars on drug charges. Does he hold the answers?
Then, a grandmother gets tasered after a routine traffic violation. Cops claim the senior citizen became violent, but I`ll show you the shocking video and let you be the judge.
Plus, an outrageous claim in the David Carradine sex death. TMZ reports the star went on a sex toy shopping spree just three weeks before his naked, bound body was found dead. Will this factor into the investigation?
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. Has it happened again? A national alert issued for a 3-year-old girl. Ohio police believe Haylee Donathan is in grave danger. They are calling on law enforcement across the country to be on the lookout for this child, her mom, and her mom`s companion who is, yes, a convicted sex offender. I`ll have the very latest on this fast-breaking story in just minutes.
But first, new clues in the hunt for the monster, the cretin, who murdered 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan. Remnants of a fire and a partially- burned latex surgical glove reportedly found at the crime scene. This is very new stuff.
Both items discovered by the very same man who sat for hours unknowingly, fishing on top of the shallow grave where little Nevaeh`s body was hidden beneath a layer of quick-dry cement before he discovered that he was atop a grave with quick dry cement. That fisherman finally chips away accidentally at the cement and then discovered her badly-decomposed remains.
Did the little girl`s calculating and yet careless killer try to destroy evidence with that fire? Crime-lab technicians in Michigan are furiously analyzing all this evidence, including a cigarette butt and also beer can reportedly found with the remains. Those items could contain valuable saliva and DNA specimens, et cetera, that could lead cops to the child`s murderer. We hope.
A big question, will they get a match to those two sex-offender friends of the mother of the dead child, who are persons of interest? Meantime, Nevaeh`s family begins the gut-wrenching chore of preparing to bury their precious child. Her great aunt speaking out about the hunt for little Nevaeh`s killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANA LAWSON, NEVAEH`S GREAT AUNT: I hope and pray to God that whoever did this will either turn theirselves in and -- or I hope and pray to God that they find whatever they need to look for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As for the two sex offenders, both pals of Nevaeh`s mom Jennifer, they are at the state prison to finish off long prison sentences. They admitted they violated their parole by hanging out with the child, a child who is now dead. Are they still under suspicion in Nevaeh`s murder? Cops waiting on the DNA and possible prints from the beer can, the cigarette butt and the latex glove to either clear them or accuse them.
Straight out to my fantastic panel: Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels; Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; David Schwartz, criminal defense attorney and former New York prosecutor; Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; and Dave Murray, special assignments editor with the "Toledo Blade."
Dave, you have been tracking this case. What is the very latest?
DAVE MURRAY, SPECIAL ASSIGNMENTS EDITOR, "TOLEDO BLADE" (via phone): Well, Jane, the family of Nevaeh gets ready to bury their little girl and, you`re right, police are pouring over lots of evidence. They reported that they found a latex -- partially-burned latex glove at the scene of the shallow grave.
The fisherman pointed this out to our reporters, and they also pointed it out to the police. They`ve -- they`ve seized the glove and all of the evidence. And you can imagine the number of police officers that are looking at this and others, trying to find the killer.
But the aunt`s suggestion that she hopes this guy turns himself in, or whoever the perpetrator is, is unrealistic. By using the glove it`s clear that he or she was very premeditated in what they were doing. They did not want to leave any tracks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, absolutely. Curtis Sliwa, when you`re mixing quick-dry cement -- I`ve actually, believe it or not, done that once. You know it sticks to your hand very easily. So you want to wear latex gloves so that the cement doesn`t stick. So then they take off the latex glove that`s partially burned. They`re trying to destroy the evidence of the glove in the fire.
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Oh, no question. But, you know, my first question to Jane would be either of the two guys who violated patrol, the sex deviants, have any of them ever had work in the field of cement? You know, pouring it, laying it, swashing it out? I mean, I would say immediately it`s got to be somebody who`s kind of used to using quick drying cement or cement in general. That might be a clue right there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Dave Murray. Because my understanding is at least one of the criminologists who`s been commenting on this case for HLN suggested that George Kennedy might have had a history of working with cement.
MURRAY: Jane, we don`t know that. But I can tell you that this is very low-tech. You don`t need to know how to work with cement to know what to do. You can buy what`s called ready-mix concrete mix anywhere, at any Home Depot, at any Lowe`s any hardware store. It`s just a bag. And all they did -- this was not mixed up and poured on the little girl. This is - - they opened the bag and dumped it on top of her. That`s -- that`s what our reporters have found and that`s what the police have said. It`s very easy to do. You do not have to have a construction background.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s recap and review the crime scene where Nevaeh`s decomposed remains were discovered, ground zero for investigators. You see them there, collecting forensic evidence. Tonight studying reports that an empty beer can, a cigarette butt, remnants of a fire, a partially-burned latex surgical glove all found at the scene, along with the cement, the quick-dry cement covering the body.
You know, that is a heck of a lot of evidence, Jayne Weintraub, left behind that can really allow us to create almost a profile of what might have gone on there.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. But I do also think, Jayne, that you`re correct. If George Kennedy does have a history of working with cement, I think that`s going to be a little closer scrutiny for George Kennedy.
But I do want to comment regarding the whole issue of sex offenders. And what I keep saying on these shows is we need to conserve the resources that we have with limited funds and economy dictates...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you say? What do you say?
WEINTRAUB: To really use the money -- we need to track the people that we think are really dangerous. Not every single sex offender is dangerous. What we need to do is look at what the activity is that they`ve done, what they`re convicted of, and we need to really track those people. Because we don`t have enough resources in any county or state to track every sex offender and that`s why these things keep happening.
DAVID SCHWARTZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I agree 100 percent. We have 600,000 registered sex offenders in this country and only about 50, 60, 70,000 of them are really dangerous sex offenders. We`ve totally watered down the sex offender statute in every jurisdiction in this country.
And what has happened? We`ve lost track. We`re trying to track all 600,000 of them. We`ve watered down the resources. That was a great point. This is the exact problem that we`re having here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. Let me say this in English. You`re saying that somebody who is, let`s say, 18 and has consensual sex with a minor who is, let`s say, 16, is put -- and they were boyfriend and girlfriend...
SCHWARTZ: That`s correct, Jane. Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... is put in the same category as somebody who had sex with a 4-year-old and sent to the slammer?
WEINTRAUB: Yes. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there`s tiers. There`s tier one, tier two, tier three.
SCHWARTZ: Everything is relative in life. Exactly, Jane. I agree. How about the person that rubbed up against someone on a subway? Now they`re sex offenders. There are people that are sex offenders that were caught urinating in public. This is ridiculous.
REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That may be. But what does that have to do here? Here, we think we have two people. Now we don`t know, Jane. We`re going to say, of course, they`re innocent until proven guilty, but we have cigarette butts and an empty beer can.
Let`s home the DNA of those items will match someone`s DNA. And let`s hope. Of course we hope there`s a confession. Of course. But I mean, we do have evidence there.
But in this case, these two -- if it`s one of these two men or both of them, they just got out of jail. There`s not even time to track that.
WEINTRAUB: They`re back in jail.
WOODLAND: Now they are. I`m saying they had just gotten out prior to this incident.
SCHWARTZ: What it means, to answer your question, Rebecca, it means, where was the parole officer, if it is one of these two people? Why was -- why was Kennedy allowed to be near this girl in the first place?
SLIWA: Oh, please. Please.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, every time we hear a case like this, we always find out that this person was on parole or probation, and somehow nobody ever checks. And they`re violating all the rules under the sun, which these two guys were, and they admitted it. That`s why they`re going back to finish off their sentences. They weren`t supposed to have contact with kids. They were in Nevaeh`s life. They weren`t supposed to be near a park. The apartment that this woman lives at it is right across -- I mean, the list goes on and on. Where are the parole officers, Curtis?
SLIWA: Jane -- Jane, I know -- I know many parole officers. They`re overwhelmed with caseloads. They do do checks, but it`s spot checks. And, by the way, this guy who was claiming, hey, we only got to worry about 50 to 60,000 of 600,000 sex offenders, I`ll tell you what, maybe we`ll put him on home incarceration in your house. You can expose him to your wife and kids. Are you out of your mind?
SCHWARTZ: I`m not out of my mind.
SLIWA: That is not all statutory rape cases.
SCHWARTZ: You`re not listening.
SLIWA: Oh, please.
SCHWARTZ: There are 60,000 rapists, dangerous sex offenders out there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the problem. It`s not an either, or. Sometimes they start slow and they work up to more serious crimes.
Sit tight. Sit tight. More on the hunt for Nevaeh`s killer in a minute. Do you think all this evidence we`re hearing about, from a beer can to the latex glove, will provide the prints or the DNA that will lead to the killer? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Let me know.
Then, this one is crazy. A great-grandma tasered by a cop after a routine traffic stop. She was going 50 miles above the speed limit. What? Wait until you see and hear this jaw-dropping video.
But, first, Nevaeh Buchanan`s murder given top priority by Michigan cop. Here`s Nevaeh`s uncle showing how even the worst tragedy can somehow bring out the best out in people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BUCHANAN, NEVAEH`S UNCLE: So a lot of -- a lot of sadness inside, but at the same time, I`m happy for all the help our family has gotten. So I just wanted to let everyone know, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY WATSON, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: And I`ll be there, and I`ll and hung up. I`m worried to death about her. I don`t know whether they`re dead or alive. I`m scared that something`s happened to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the grandmother of little Haylee Donathan, the 3-year-old child last seen with her mom and her mom`s sex offender boyfriend. We will have a lot more on that story in a second.
But, first, back to another mother who may have endangered her daughter by bringing sex offenders into that child`s life. That 5-year-old child, little Nevaeh, is now dead. Tonight, remnants of a fire, a partially-burned latex surgical glove, a cigarette butt, a beer can, all critical pieces of evidence that could lead cops to the cretin who killed 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan.
Back with my panel. Phone lines lighting up. Susan, Missouri, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: My prayers and thoughts go out to the family, but I find it highly suspicious that a killer that`s going to encase a child`s body in cement would leave his DNA behind. And I think maybe he could have planted the cigarette by -- and the beer can for evidence. That he could have got out of a trash can or whatever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you should be a defense attorney, because that`s exactly what the defense attorney...
WEINTRAUB: And I want to object.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Who`s objecting? Jayne Weintraub?
WEINTRAUB: Of course.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I think that`s what the defense attorneys say whenever the DNA matches up: "Oh, well, it was a conspiracy, and they took my DNA and they brought it to the scene."
You know, Jennifer Buchanan, Nevaeh`s mom, had a close relationship with convicted sex offender George Kennedy. Here`s what she said right after her child disappeared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER BUCHANAN, MOTHER OF NEVAEH: I feel that it really doesn`t matter. Not all offenders re-offend. No one ever knows if a person is a sex offender or not unless they are labeled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
J. BUCHANAN: Anybody could be a sex offender.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Then she finally changed her tune this past Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. BUCHANAN: I`m pretty sure that probably someone associated with George or his girlfriend or a few other -- I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she finally comes to her senses, Curtis Sliwa, after initially defending this person of interest in the case who was, some say, her former boyfriend.
SLIWA: What was this? The Stockholm Syndrome? She felt like she was indebted to this guy just because they had the urge to merge at the parole officer`s? This is absolutely nuts. What she exposed her daughter to, and it took like a full week for her to have an epiphany, a stigmata, and realize, hey, it may be this guy. It may be his girlfriend. It may be some of their associates?
WEINTRAUB: Maybe she thought she was going to get arrested. Don`t you think she feels bad enough?
But isn`t it a wake-up call to some parents? I mean, that`s what the message should be here. Instead of convicting her and annihilating her already, we be delivering the message as responsible people that it isn`t the way it used to be.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the -- no, no, no, sex offenders have always been dangerous. The fact is that she is the cautionary tale.
WEINTRAUB: You could ride your bike when you were 5 outside (ph).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What not to do as a parent. Don`t let your kid play outside unsupervised.
WEINTRAUB: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t let sex offenders into your life. She said, you know, people deserve a second chance, and that`s not how you give a second chance to anyone.
I mean, if these two guys had nothing to do with this case at all and they simply showed bad judgment, being on parole and getting involved with this mother and the child, she`s ruined their lives, too. They`re going away for, respectively, 13 years and possibly 35 years more in jail.
WEINTRAUB: Absolutely, Jane. But what I was saying...
SCHWARTZ: That`s their own doing, though.
WEINTRAUB: What I was trying to say -- more vigilant. Parents need to be watching their kids more.
SCHWARTZ: Have to use some common sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re the former prosecutor. Take it.
SCHWARTZ: Well, no, obviously parents have to show common sense on who they allow to hang out with their children. Certainly, they are responsible for their own actions. They are going away to jail for 13 years and 12 years because of their own actions, because of their own violation of the parole.
The question is, are they the perpetrators of this horrible crime?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dave Murray, you`ve been tracking this case as a reporter. If they are not -- if they don`t match up to any of the DNA or any of the prints, then police are back to square one. What happened to that green box-style van that was reportedly spotted in the parking lot of the elementary school where Nevaeh was last seen? We in fact -- there are some of the possibilities of this van.
The sheriff`s department said they got numerous calls about a green van, which could be similar to a Chevy Astro or Ford Windstar.
MURRAY: I don`t blame the cops for this. All of these leads have come down to nothing. They may never find out who did this, which I know no one wants to hear. But the green van, the silver van, the white van, no one has come forward with it. No one knows.
Both of these sex offenders are back in prison now. By the way, they`re not going to be there for 13 years. They were only in prison for a year or more for the actual rape. You think they`re going to keep in jail for 13 years for a parole violation? I think not.
WEINTRAUB: And one of their parole was up in July.
MURRAY: Yes, I better this out in six months, maybe a year. They may stay in jail for a year but they will be out again. The problem is, these guys have alibis and if these guy`s allegations are no good, they would have been arrested a long time ago.
The real fear that we have here, and I live in the county, is that there`s a sicko out there, not these guys in jail, and he may do this again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. OK. That is scary, frightening stuff. Thank you to my excellent panel. We`re going to stay on top of the story.
Moving to another missing girl whose mom was cavorting with a convicted sex offender. The 3-year-old and her mom last seen two weeks ago with the mom`s sex offender boyfriend. The latest on that search.
And an elderly woman tasered by a cop after going 50 miles over the speed limit. You will not believe this confrontation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the "Spotlight" tonight, a national alert. Authorities in Ohio racing to find an adorable 3-year-old girl. They believe she`s danger from a sexual predator, who is -- you guess it -- a friend of a mother. Has this happened again?
Little Haylee Donathan -- yes, another Haylee; that is so strange -- was last seen with her mom and her mom`s sex offender boyfriend Robby Potter more than two weeks ago. Potter is a tier 3 sex offender, the worst of the worst. He recently got out of prison after being convicted of sexual battery of two minors. The victims` ages -- are you sitting down? - - 11 and 12.
Cops believe Mom and Potter are together. Possibly went to Arizona or Colorado on a little road trip.
Little Haylee`s grandma fears for their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Everybody is just sick and worried to death about them. Don`t know if they are dead or alive. And scared that something has happened to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor woman is going through hell, too.
Police have no issued two warrants for Potter`s arrest. What is wrong, America? Why are these moms bringing sex offenders into their child`s lives and placing them in life-threatening situations?
Joining me on the phone, Michael Nolting, news director at WMRM-AM out of Ohio.
Mike, what is the very latest?
MICHAEL NOLTING, NEWS DIRECTOR, WMRM: Well, I can tell you right now that today the northern Ohio violent fugitive task force did make three arrests in the city of Mansfield. It is not exactly known what the connection is, but authorities are saying that there is a connection at this hour.
Mr. Potter was released from prison on the 28th. It was then that he and Candace got together with the child. They spent that night at the Hickory Grove Campground here in Marion County. I spoke with the manager of the campground. And she told me that Candace did all the checking in at the camp site and checked in as just two adults and did not acknowledge the young child being with the group.
From there, they left on the 29th, and officials do believe that they are headed to Arizona. Not really sure what the connection is there, but for some reason officials here do believe that.
We do know that they`re driving a 1988 dark blue pickup truck, and the license number of that truck is Q-645916.
And the law enforcement continues to place their focus on the life of 3-year-old Haylee Donathan. That is they`re focused -- they`re trying to get this little girl out of harm`s way if, in fact, she is, which there is reasonable reason to discern -- to assume that she is. And at that point, I think officials want to sort out why this all happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This guy is a scary guy. He`s also on federal probation for bank robbery. How did the mother meet this cretin? Where did they hook up? And why did they decide to go on this sicko road trip?
NOLTING: I`m hearing initial reports from Richland county officials that say that two of the arrests that were made today could be the paternal father of Haylee and Candace Watson`s brother. Or that would be Haylee`s uncle. And now, that has not -- that has been confirmed by Richland County authorities. However, the connection and the why has not yet been determined.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. Well, listen, excellent reporting. We`re going to stay on top of this one, too. Thank you, Michael.
Cops expanding their search for Tracy Ocasio, who disappeared. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) speak to me next.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A grandmother gets tasered after a routine traffic stop. Cops claim the senior citizen became violent but I`ll show you the shocking video and let you be the judge.
Plus, an outrageous claim in the David Carradine sex death. TMZ reports the star went on a sex shopping spree just three weeks before his naked bound body was found dead in a Thailand hotel. Will this factor into the investigation?
Breaking developments tonight in the frightening and terrifying disappearance of 27-year-old Tracy Ocasio, the frantic search continues. Police in Florida scour the woods with 10 dogs in an area where James Hataway -- the only person of interest in this case has been known to illegally dump things. Hataway insists he`s innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s Tracy?
JAMES HATAWAY, LAST PERSON SEEN WITH OCASIO: I`m innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened the last night with her?
HATAWAY: She left; I hung out with her father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The beautiful jewelry maker vanished after a night out almost two weeks ago. This surveillance footage -- take a look at it - - captured the last known image of Tracy. We`re about to see it, where she is leaving the bar with 28-year-old Hataway. There is Hataway, by all accounts -- there she is with a cap -- by all accounts Hataway is a very, very dangerous man.
Hataway has just been charged with allegedly attacking another woman last year in a neighboring county. Listen to that woman explain that terrifying attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He came up behind me and he started slamming my head down on the sidewalk. I started screaming and then he took his hand and took both fingers and put them in my mouth and tried to snap my neck again. And I`m screaming, "Somebody please help me; he`s going to kill me." And two people walked outside, thank God, and saved my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She also was giving him a ride home from the bar. Tonight, Tracy`s parents take the desperate search into their own hands, canvassing areas known to be out of the way dumping grounds. The anxiety is almost too much to bear.
Tonight I am very privilege to be joined by Tracy`s parents, Joe and Liz Ocasio as well as Tracy`s very, very close friend, perhaps best friend, Emily Hamilton. Also joining us, criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky, plus, Bianca Prieto, a criminal justice reporter from the "Orlando Sentinel."
First, Joe and Liz thank you so much for joining us. I can`t even imagine what you are going through right now; two weeks of waiting, searching for your daughter.
Liz, I understand that this stress has actually impacted your health. Tell us about that.
LIZ OCASIO, TRACY OCASIO`S MOTHER: Yes -- it -- I was already on blood pressure medication and it`s made me increase my dosage. It puts your blood pressure up, all the tension and all the stress.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you have to go to the hospital?
L. OCASIO: Yes, I had to go there to get them to adjust it, and make sure that everything was ok.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God. Joe, I understand you have basically taken this matter into your own hands. You are doing your own searches. Where are you searching and why?
JOE OCASIO, TRACY OCASIO`S FATHER: Well, we have knowledge -- we have had knowledge of the areas the police are searching and, one, I needed some therapy, I needed to get out. And two, I needed to look right behind them. At the time we did not want the public to know but a meeting with the detectives tonight, they reviewed all of the different areas. And we`re going to be making that available to the media so we can have more exposure on those areas and begin a large search by the public to see if can get help to find our daughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe, I hear your voice -- I hear your voice quivering and I cannot even imagine what you`re experiencing. For those who have no understanding of it, how would you describe the hideous, torturous waiting game that you -- you`re feeling?
J. OCASIO: It`s a living nightmare. It`s just -- you can`t sleep, you think about her all the time. When you go to bed at night and you close your eyes, all -- what I can see is my daughter. I can`t shut down my brain from it. It`s just -- you just live it, you eat it, you -- it`s a living nightmare. I don`t know how else to explain it. It`s been tough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I admire your courage to do the searches and to come on this show to keep this story out there as authorities search for your daughter.
Let`s take a closer look at the surveillance video. Tracy went to the Tap Room Bar to watch the Magic Game. She was walking around and then seen living right there with James Hataway.
Now, Emily, you are one of her very best friends. You talk to her every day. What do you know about her connection to this man, James Hataway? And I understand she met him a couple of weeks ago at this very same bar.
Was that her, hang out that bar? I mean, did you go there with her often? Did she go there with a friend? Tell us everything you know.
EMILY HAMILTON, TRACY OCASIO`S BEST FRIEND: The Tap Room was big place for sporting events to go and watch them. Tracy was very fond of that place. It was very close to where I live. She knew everybody there.
So the guy that police now have in custody, I know that she had ran into him the week before just from what I`ve heard through the investigation. That`s all. I`ve never heard her talk about or mention this guy before this came out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the reporter Bianca Prieto with the "Orlando Sentinel." I understand that you were actually really tracking with your own eyes the search today that authorities are doing for this woman. Tell us what you know and what you`ve seen.
BIANCA PRIETO, CRIMINAL JUSTICE REPORTER (via telephone): That`s right. I was out at the search site this afternoon where police had their cadaver dogs and some of the different Sheriff`s office around Central Florida.
This is a dumping area for people in the area. There are sofas and tires and old TVs so there are quite a bit of junk that the cops and the cadaver dogs are having to search through.
Like I said, this is a known dumping ground for people in the area, especially for Jimmy Hataway. He worked as person who would clear lakes and ponds behind houses so people could have nice areas and beach areas. And he would gather that stuff up and clear the ponds and pack them and throw them in the back of a truck and then go and dump them there free of charge.
The cops don`t have any specific information that Jimmy was there or that Tracy was there around the time that she went missing. However, they want to search the area thoroughly to make sure that they`re covering all their bases.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, James Hataway reportedly being investigated in six separate cases now including another missing person`s case. This time it`s a former best friend of his Christopher George who went missing back in February.
In the wake of Tracy`s disappearance, detectives have now antes-up the search for the man you are looking out on you`re screen right there. They spent two hours Monday dredging a local pond. Christopher`s car by the way was found badly damaged after apparently hitting a tree.
Now authorities wonder if that was really a car accident at all. They now suspect it could have been staged to cover up his murder. Police records show Hataway was in the vicinity of that car wreck but he hasn`t been named a suspect in that male buddy`s disappearance or in Tracy`s disappearance for that matter.
But Darren Kavinoky, you`re the criminal defense attorney. Isn`t it a little fishy when two people associated with one individual go missing?
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it absolutely is, Jane. And let me say as a parent, as a human being, my heart and my thoughts and prayers go out to this entire family. What a horrible tragedy to endure.
And my hope, as a criminal defense lawyer, is simply this. Remember that a defense lawyer`s function is really about government prosecution, quality control. And if this person Hataway is the person that did it, that -- that caused any harm to befall their daughter, that I hope the police and investigators make sure to observe all the rules of evidence so that whoever it is that`s responsible for any harm to her is brought to justice and punished to the full extent of the law.
Certainly any other kinds of suspicious activity could be introduced in a criminal case against Hataway regarding this situation but obviously there`s a lot more detail that needs to be uncovered first.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Joe and Liz Ocasio, Joe what`s really so upsetting is that the woman who says she was attacked by him a year ago was also giving him a ride home from a bar. There is that commonality there. Does that just chill you?
J. OCASIO: Absolutely. I mean, it`s just the similarities of what`s going on about this man, you know they scared you, because it makes you think that something -- that he`s done something.
Again, there`s no proof that -- no evidence that he`s done something, but everything comes right back to Jim Hataway, either knowing something or possibly being involved with what happened to our daughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And to make matters worst another friend says that he`s foul-tempered skinhead. Oh, boy.
Joe and Liz Ocasio, our thoughts and prayers are with you. We`re going to stay on top of the story. We`re going to do everything we can to get your daughter back. Thank you so much.
J. OCASIO: Thank you.
L. OCASIO: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An elderly woman tasered in Texas. Should the cops be punished? I will show you the video and let you be the judge.
And in the wake of David Carradine`s mysterious death, even more outrageous reports emerge about his sex life. This time it`s about lots of sex toys. Could all of these claims affect the investigation into his death? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, I want to hear what you think about David Carradine`s death. That`s 1-877-586-7297; sound off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: New reports that David Carradine went on a sex toy shopping spree shortly before his death. Will that affect the investigation?
First, "Top of the Block" tonight.
This is an unbelievable story. A great-grandmother tasered during a routine traffic stop in Texas; 72-year-old Kathryn Winkfein was pulled over for speeding just 15 miles an hour over the limit. When she refused to sign the ticket, Deputy Chris Bieze brought the elderly woman out of the car; there things quickly deteriorated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHRY WINKFEIN, TASERED BY POLICE: Give the [bleep] thing and I`ll sign.
DEPUTY CHRIS BIEZE, POLICE OFFICER: Get over here now.
WINKFEIN: Give it to me and I`ll sign it. Oh, oh. You`re going to shove me?
WINKFEIN: You`re going to shove a 72-year-old woman?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You can hear her say she would sign the ticket but by then the officer wouldn`t let her so the senior citizen became even more combative. Bieze the officer warned her at least five times she would be tasered. Here is what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIEZE: And put your hands behind your back.
WINKFEIN: I`m getting back in my car. No. I`m getting back in my car.
BIEZE: Put your hands behind your back or you`re going to be tased again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What the heck. Darren Kavinoky, back with me for some quick analysis; does this grandma -- actually she`s a great grandma -- have a winnable lawsuit on her hands?
KAVINOKY: Yes, this is from the -- be careful what you wish for because you just might just get it, Jane. You know, when you beg the officer to tase you, you can`t be too surprised that he does.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can be very surprised that he does. I think this is absolutely outrageous.
I mean, give me a break, tasers are only supposed to be used when you feel your life is in danger or somebody else`s life is danger.
So she sassed him. She`s a sassy grandmother. That`s no excuse to be tasered. I don`t care what anybody says I don`t agree with it.
KAVINOKY: I would rather be on her side of the lawsuit but the police agency is coming out and defending their actions, saying that what they did was a reasonable use of force in light of the circumstances. They even defended the shove saying that that was necessary to get her out of the traffic lanes which, candidly, I`m not buying that one either.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, listen she survived all these years without that officer`s help and hasn`t been mowed down by a car. So the idea that he tasered her to somehow save her life from the traffic, I don`t buy that either. I think this is absolutely outrageous.
I think it`s just the sense of entitlement, that if somebody insults you -- which I don`t believe in insulting cops, I think it`s a bad idea and I`ve never done it myself -- but she`s a 72-year-old great grandmother and you don`t taser her for being a foul-mouthed sass.
KAVINOKY: Right and of course, they`ve charged her with a resisting arrest which if she is convicted could be a problem for her prevailing in a civil lawsuit. So we`ll have to stay tuned and see how that criminal case turns out, too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ll say to this officer, pick on somebody your own size and your own age. Darren, thank you.
Turning now to new and more shocking details regarding David Carradine`s obsession with bondage; how do they factor into his disturbing death? TMZ reporting Carradine went on a shopping spree at a sex shop in Los Angeles just weeks before his death. He was a regular as Susie`s Delight and stocked up on women`s lingerie, stockings, bondage toys and videos.
Now, normally I would certainly say, Hey, that`s his business, nobody needs to know about that. However, Carradine`s bizarre and tragic death hanging bound by his neck, wrists and genitals naked is why it could be relevant to the investigation as to how and why he died. It could be weeks before we get the autopsy results back from Thailand.
But today, the "New York Post" reporting a second autopsy performed by forensic specialist -- the very famous Dr. Michael Baden will show that cause of death is auto-erotic asphyxiation. That`s from Dr. Baden; the family`s side.
But in a sick twist, somebody is hawking five pictures of Carradine`s sliced up, naked body on a Thai autopsy table. That is truly one of the sickest things I`ve ever heard.
This, after the naked photo of him hanging published on the front page of a Thai newspaper. I thought that was grotesque enough. That new development of the autopsy photo was even worse.
Plus, Carradine`s third ex-wife, Gail Jensen, who joins me in moments, spoke with RadarOnline where you can see more of their wedding pictures. And she said she suspects foul play. She has an interesting theory. Will these reported autopsy findings change her mind?
Straight to my expert panel: Ken Seeley, interventionist and author of the fabulous new boo, "Face It and Fix It;" Mike Walters, assignment manager for TMZ; and joining me by phone, Gail Jensen, David Carradine`s ex-wife who was with him for 15 years.
Gail thank you for joining us. I know that the stress of all of this has got to be getting to you. I know everybody in the world has been trying to talk to you. We thank you for taking the time to talk to us.
GAIL JENSEN, DAVID CARRADINE`S THIRD EX-WIFE: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, how are you doing, Gail?
JENSEN: Well, I`ll tell you what. Listen. Please forgive me, but I can`t do this anymore.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s just say...
JENSEN: David was the love of my life now and forever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You think he was murdered though.
JENSEN: Our bond was the truth and love and faith and all of the buff. He believed in dreams. He believed in dreams. And he was a fabulous human being. I just can`t listen to this anymore because he was a fabulous husband. I know that he was full of Kung Fu and faith.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he was murdered.
JENSEN: And I`m telling you Jane, don`t ask me any weird stories because he believes in brothers and sisters and children and he did so many wonderful things for everybody. Just let him rest in peace.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. I think he`s a great actor and, as I said, I don`t think it`s anybody`s business but the relevancy only comes into question because of the manner of his death.
I understood that you felt that it could have been foul play and you had a theory involving Bruce Lee. Tell us about that.
JENSEN: Well, I did -- not regarding Bruce Lee. It was about the fact that during the time of "Kung Fu" like in `72, `73, Bruce Lee really wanted the part. And David came off of a show in Broadway where he played (INAUDIBLE) on Broadway and they brought him in to audition. And he was a brilliant actor and Bruce could not quite speak that much great English.
And there was a big thing going on about the fact that he was an American playing a Chinese. And Bruce Lee went back to Bangkok and Thailand and that`s where he worked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So basically you`re saying that you feel that the supporters of Bruce Lee might have been out to target David Carradine out of this jealousy?
JENSEN: Well, might have or might have or I don`t know, I just think it`s foul play or misplay. It`s a horrible thing. However, Jane, give me a break, I have had enough of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`m going to give you a break right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know what`s really -- and thank you for joining us and good luck to you.
JENSEN: You know what, Jane?
JENSEN: Let him rest in peace. He was a great guy, he was a fabulous actor. And I just think that something went awry and I don`t think any of this stuff -- I have not seen the photos or anything and I don`t want to see them. Whatever happens...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think anybody should be allowed to see them. And in a moment when we come back from the break talk to TMZ about these horrifying developments where Thai newspapers are actually publicizing the naked photos.
More analysis of this bizarre story; it gets weirder and weirder. We`re going to talk to the experts in just a moment.
Stay right there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, David Carradine`s tragic death: did his lifelong obsession with bondage lead him to an accidental death?
Mike Walters, TMZ, what do you know?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: You know what? We found out today that he actually liked to frequent a place called "Susie`s Delight" that was near where he lived.
And an interesting thing about that, obviously, is that he did have every piece of bondage that they had in the store, including ropes, cuffs, all kinds of stuff like that. And he even had order that he had ordered and unfortunately never got to pick up including DVDs and all kinds of stuff because unfortunately he passed away.
Like you said, this is interesting because I think it`s still on the table whether or not this is a sexual act gone wrong, whether there`s somebody else involved, whether it`s foul play. And I think all things are leading toward this was a horrible accident. And, of course, the life insurance stuff, whether or not this was suicide or an accident.
So I think the sex shop stuff and the shopping spree does lead toward he likes that kind of stuff, he was into it and every month he visited this place.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken Seeley, you`re the interventionist, is bondage an addiction and is it progressive like all other addictions?
KEN SEELEY, INTERVENTIONIST: It absolutely is, Jane. And my point in all of this is I agree with Gail. Let him rest in peace.
If you see these type of symptoms happening, that`s when you call in a professional like myself regarding addiction and with alcoholism, sex addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, have you ever done a bondage intervention?
SEELEY: Sexual addiction, yes, I have.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, really? Wow.
So you do interventions not just on alcohol and drugs, but you will actually do an intervention on a sex addiction? That`s fascinating to me.
SEELEY: All the time. And the only reason why people don`t hear about them is because they are much more private than drugs and alcohol. They don`t want that broadcasted all over the media. So these are private situations, but they`re illnesses that need treatment. They`re illnesses that need medical attention.
And so the key is, if you see these behaviors prior, get them the help that they need. Get them before it gets to this point if that is what killed him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what do you think Mike Walters -- we have about 15 seconds -- of all these conspiracy theories, that Bruce Lee was somehow involved -- fans of Bruce Lee. He, obviously, died in 1973.
WALTERS: Jane, that was in the `70s. I mean, I don`t think -- if there was foul play, it`s not going to have to do with Kung Fu or Bruce Lee or the movies. I think it could be -- they`re going to investigate it. But that`s also why we did the story and looked into the sex shop thing. We`re trying to figure out what happened here. It`s unfortunate so we`ll figure it out as soon as we can.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to leave it right there. Thank you fabulous panel.
Before we go, here`s one for the road. The latest in the Phil Specter mug shot collection. Take a look at that. Last week, he started his 19- year sentence for murder. Phil, welcome to the big house.
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