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INSIDE AFRICA
Charles Taylor Defends Himself at Special Court for Sierra Leone
Aired July 18, 2009 - 19:30:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM CLANCY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to INSIDE AFRICA. I'm Jim Clancy. Isha Sesay is on assignment. Straight ahead in the program, Charles Taylor defending himself before the special court for Sierra Leone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES TAYLOR, FORMER LIBERIAN PRESIDENT: This whole case is a case of deceit, deception, lies.
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CLANCY: What was the reaction to that from Sierra Leone? We'll hear it. Also, what could this trial mean for current African leaders? And U.S. President Barack Obama answering some questions in Africa, using new media to do it.
At one time, Charles Taylor was among the most feared leaders in all of Africa. Now he is a witness in his own defense at his war crimes trial in the Hague. The former Liberian president is on trial for crimes committed in neighboring Sierra Leone. He insists he is completely innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAYLOR: I'm not guilty of all of these charges, not even minute part of these charges. I cannot understand how some of these people were brought to the point, and they are just -- I stand corrected on this -- to tell some of the lies that I have heard sitting over there. It's I guess what you lawyers call -- you know, what your, lawyers, call incredulous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Taylor, charged with 11 counts including murder, conscripting child soldiers and mutilation. Prosecutors say he armed the rebels in neighboring Sierra Leone and he got paid in so-called "blood diamonds," fueling one of the most vicious civil wars in modern times. That charge was the subject of a key exchange inside the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COURENAY GRIFFITHS, LEAD DEFENSE COUNSEL: Mr. Taylor, did you ever deal in diamonds with the RUF in return for arms?
TAYLOR: Never. There is not one human who believes in the truth can say that I, Charles Ghankay Taylor, dealt with the RUF or anyone in the RUF taking diamonds for arms or taking diamonds for anything. None.
GRIFFITHS: I'll ask you very directly, Mr. Taylor. Based on the evidence called by the prosecution, and I'm speaking loudly because I have been told that my voice is very faint. Were you regularly receiving mayonnaise jars full of diamonds from the RUF?
TAYLOR: Never, ever did I receive whether it is mayonnaise or coffee or whatever jar. Never receive any diamonds from the RUF. It's a lie. It's a diabolical lie. Never.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: One of the brutal hallmarks of this conflict in Sierra Leone was the widespread amputation of civilians' limbs. Adults couldn't be found to do it, children were made to heck the limbs of other children, women, even infants. Thousands of people were mutilated or killed.
Zainab Bangura is Sierra Leone's foreign minister. We asked her to give us her impressions of Taylor's testimony, and the impact this trial could have around Africa.
ZAINAB BANGURA, FOREIGN MIN., SIERRA LEONE: The crimes that Mr. Taylor is charged with relate not to his direct personal involvement in the commission of the crimes, but to his contribution as the individual who'd be at the great responsibility in facilitating the commission of the crimes. We know that he actually did that, encouraged and condone the RUF, as well as benefited from the war. More or less, he was the main sponsor of the RUF. These are all well-known and acknowledged facts about Mr. Charles Taylor, so it's a bit of a surprise for us in Sierra Leone to hear what he's saying.
CLANCY: What message, Zainab Bangura, does this send to other African leaders?
BANGURA: Well, it's for people to understand that you cannot support rebel movements. You cannot kill your own people. I mean what he did to us and he did to Liberia is something that will ever remain with us. Inasmuch as we have put the war behind us, but we paid a very heavy price. And that is the message that we want everyone to understand, that the period of impunity is over in Africa. When you commit the crime that Mr. Taylor is alleged to have committed, you're bound to pay the price.
CLANCY: Sierra Leone's foreign minister Zainab Bangura there. Well, a verdict in this Taylor case is not expected to come out of that special court for at least a year.
Meantime, U.S. President Barack Obama answering your questions, taking comments from all around Africa. We're going to have a sample of what he had to say. Stay with INSIDE AFRICA.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Welcome back to INSIDE AFRICA. You know, we want to follow up on the stories that we told you about last week, about U.S. President Barack Obama's visit to Ghana. The White House at that time asked people all over Africa to send Mr. Obama their questions and comments using a text message and a cell phone, or to use Twitter or Facebook. Well, now the president is home, he has responded, we understand to a few of those questions on his White House Web site. Let's take a look and check out what he had to say.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The third question was selected by Peter Kimani (ph) of "The Standard," Nairobi, Kenya. "What is your plan to promote and implement trade between Africa and the USA beyond AGOA?" From Sylvian Mabia Saluseki (ph) of South Africa.
Well, Sylvian, I think that one of the principles that I want to bring to the U.S.-Africa relationship is that economic development in Africa is not just going to be based on dribbles of foreign aid, but rather it's going to be based on how do we build capacity within Africa.
Now, as I've said before, part of that is up to Africa, and improving governance, improving respect for rule of law and property rights, all of which can encourage investment, encourage young people or talent to invest his entrepreneurs. That is going to make the biggest difference. But changing our trade policies effectively is also going to be important. So I want to find ways that we can further open up trade relationships between the United States and African countries. We want to wherever we can provide the kinds of access to the U.S. global markets that can really make a difference.
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CLANCY: Now, White House told us all of the questions were actually selected by three African journalists from different countries around the continent. You know, Mr. Obama was able to do some sightseeing while he was in Ghana. He toured a harrowing landmark of the Atlantic slave trade, the Cape Coast Castle. CNN's Anderson Cooper was there with him.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think what happened here still has resonance in America? That the slave experience still has something that should be talked about, and should be remembered, and should be present in everyday life?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that the experience of slavery is -- is like the experience of Holocaust. I think it's one of those things that you don't forget about. I think it's important that -- in the way we think about it, in the way it's taught, is not one in which there is simply a victim and a victimizer and that's the end of the story. I think the way it has to be thought about, the reason it's relevant is because whether it's what's happening in Darfur, or what's happening in the Congo, or what's happening in too many places around the world, the capacity for cruelty still exists, the capacity for discrimination still exists, the capacity to think about people who are different not just on the basis of race, but on the basis of religion or the basis of sexual orientation or gender still exists.
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CLANCY: If you remember, opportunity was one of the key themes of the president's address to the Ghanaian parliament. We recently spoke to Nigerian Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka about the Obama trip, and he made a very interesting point about opportunity in Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLE SOYINKA, NIGERIAN NOBEL LAUREATE: One of the saddest songs that have come out of Africa in recent times was the one that was -- that hit the airways in Kenya shortly after Obama's election, and it went thus, that it's easier for a Luo to become -- that's a minority tribe of Africa, of course, Kenya -- for a Luo to become president of the United States than to be the president of Kenya. Now, that in itself is a -- is a very shaming commentary on power, the whole manipulation of power on the African continent.
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CLANCY: Wole Soyinka there, and he's always good, of course, for giving us something to really think about.
As most people know, Kenya is the land of Barack Obama's father, corruption persistent problem there. And we're going to hear the finance minister's take on it. Stay with INSIDE AFRICA.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: You're watching INSIDE AFRICA. Welcome back, everyone. You know, Transparency International has hung a rather unflattering superlative on the nation of Kenya. The corruption watchdog's latest bribery index lists Kenya as the most corrupt country in East Africa. Kenyan finance minister, Uhuru Kenyatta, recently sat down for an interview with CNN's David McKenzie to discuss the effect of his government's less than pristine reputation on both aid and development.
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UHURU KENYATTA, KENYAN FINANCE MINISTER: Development is primarily the responsibility of the government and its people, and for us to hear in Kenya, over the last five years, an excess of 90 percent of our budget has been financed through domestic resources. So I do agree with the fact that we need to create a greater level of self-dependence. However, like I'm saying, some of the challenges that we face are such that in order to accelerate that pace of development, to accelerate the pace of development and to -- to be able to deliver services, aid development assistance, especially in terms of infrastructure development, for energy, for roads, bridges and hospitals and schools is, indeed, a valuable contributor, a valuable contributor, but it shouldn't be the only basis on which Africa will develop.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: DFID, the British government, they are saying they won't fund specific ministries because of corruption issues in Kenya. What is your response to that? Do you think that is a helpful, a carrot-and-stick approach?
KENYATTA: I -- Let's put it this way. Corruption is -- is a vice that we have to deal with. And I think we are dealing with it. And as Kenya, I think, we have made tremendous progress.
MCKENZIE: From their perspective, they're seeing the political problems in the country, they're seeing Transparency International now saying Kenya is the most corrupt country in East Africa. Can you really expect them to give millions of dollars to programs in Kenya if they feel that that money might not be well spent?
KENYATTA: Now, the question is this, even when we get some of those indices, what are we really talking about? Are we talking about corruption in the particular development programs that they are investing in, or are we talking in many instances about petty corruption? Those kinds of programs don't need to be stopped because there is a policeman or a judge that was bribed yesterday, and you can actually physically see that those programs are ongoing. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCKENZIE: But I don't think the developmental agencies are withholding funding necessarily because of a policeman taking a bribe. They're withholding funding, they say, because of political instability and a lack of reform in the grand structures of the government. Should that be affecting aid -- assistance to Kenya?
KENYATTA: I want to, again, be very clear, because when we say that there is a lack of commitment on reform, we are actually in the process of all those reforms that they keep talking about, but like I'm saying, it's not a question of issues that can -- that can materialize overnight. It's part of a process, it's part of a process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Now, noteworthy here, Bloomberg News Agency telling us that starting next year Kenya will be seeking $1 billion a year in loans from the World Bank for transportation and energy projects.
Well, now let's take a quick look at some of the stories that are making news around the continent.
The president of Somalia's beleaguered transitional government is calling on Somalis living in the United States to stop sending their young men back to his country to fight alongside Islamist rebels. In this exclusive footage obtained by CNN, government and African Union forces battle to retake a key part of Mogadishu from rebel fighters. Meantime, a U.S. grand jury indicted two young Minnesota men for allegedly recruiting Somali immigrants to fight for the insurgency.
In South Africa, about 70,000 construction workers are back on the job building stadiums and other projects for the 2010 World Cup. Labor unions agreed to a 12 percent pay hike ending a tense week-long strike.
And it's time once again to celebrate Nelson Mandela's birthday and legacy. The Nelson Mandela Foundation and the 46664 Campaign have teamed up to make Mandela Day an annual event in the global movement for good. The former South African president takes the message encouraging supporters to create a better world by volunteering in their communities.
NELSON MANDELA, FMR. SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: Mandela Day is not a holiday, but a day devoted to service.
CLANCY: His wife, Graca Machel says he's still very active at the age of 91.
GRACA MACHEL, WIFE OF NELSON MANDELA: He's still very, very healthy, and he keeps himself busy. He comes to his office and he does the kind of work which the charities want him to do, and of course, they protect him, not overburden him. But he keeps the routines which makes him feel that despite age, he still can carry on his work.
CLANCY: 46664 refers to Mr. Mandela's inmate number when he was a political prisoner during the apartheid era.
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CLANCY: A young student from South Africa is back at home now planning his own future after studying at the U.S. boarding school. What he and his American classmates learned together might surprise you.
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CLANCY: Welcome back, everyone, to my favorite program on CNN, INSIDE AFRICA. Here's a great story for you. A promising young South African recently had a chance to learn about the United States of America from the inside. Gadaffi Nkosi just graduated from the Piney Wood School in the U.S. state of Mississippi, in the deep South. The experience taught him -- better abandon all your preconceived notions. As Soledad O'Brien reports, his American peers in the classroom learned about the same lesson about Africa.
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SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gadaffi Nkosi feels at home on the rural Mississippi campus of the Piney Wood school, but this primarily African American boarding school is a world away from the impoverished South African village he grew up in. His mother still lives there.
ALETTA SIBONGILE NKOSI, GADAFFI'S MOTHER: I don't know how Gadaffi came out of this, because if you can look every -- some of the kids at this age, they've been distraught by drugs and all those things.
O'BRIEN: Like many of the international students here, Gadaffi came to the school with expectations about the United States.
GADAFFI NKOSI, PINEY WOODS STUDENT: When I was at home, one thing that I saw the United States to be was a paradise. This is a place where you go in, and anything, you know, is delivered to you almost like in a gold place.
O'BRIEN: But on community service trips, he's seen that life for some Americans is surprisingly familiar.
NKOSI: We had a lot of people that were illiterate, places where you could see, you know, were vandalized by poverty, places, you know, where HIV/AIDS is so common. Those are the three things that, you know, are currently affecting South Africa.
O'BRIEN: He also had expectations about African Americans.
NKOSI: The media when I was back home, you know, portrayed an image to me about African Americans that made it seem as if they were these aggressive people, they did nothing constructive with their lives except occupy prison space.
O'BRIEN: School president Reginald Nichols says it's a common misperception.
REGINALD NICHOLS: Because if you see "Cops" or one of those shows, you go, OK, everybody is like that.
O'BRIEN: The stereotyping goes both ways.
CYDNEY SMITH, PINEY WOODS STUDENT: I thought that Africans were, like, uncivilized tribes, and you just think of like the jungle, and you remember "The Lion King" from your childhood pretty much.
O'BRIEN: Cydney Smith now credits her African roommate with motivating her to work harder.
SMITH: I learned from Sandee (ph) and a lot of my African friends that I need to take these opportunities because they're not always going to be around.
O'BRIEN: Nichols says learning about each other is the most important lesson these students will walk away with.
NICHOLS: That's why I like having the mix of students here, because here they're getting an opportunity to dialogue, and to create U.N., United Nations here.
NKOSI: You have to, you know, try to find common ground with other people, you know. It never hurts, you know, to get out of your comfort zone and reach out to another person, and learn from them. Because there is so many things that you can learn from each other.
O'BRIEN: Soledad O'Brien, CNN, reporting.
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CLANCY: Well, sometimes the most important lessons can't be found in a textbook, that's for sure. Nkosi has some big plans for the future. He tells us he intends to be the president of South Africa one day. Dream big, Nkosi.
That has to do it for this edition of INSIDE AFRICA. You know, you can follow us on Twitter, twitter.com/CNN/InsideAfrica. Be sure to tune in next week as Robyn Curnow hosts this show from Durban, South Africa, site of the 2009 CNN multi choice African Journalist Awards. Thanks for watching.
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