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Michael Jackson's Doctor Speaks Out; Milwaukee Mayor Beaten; Jenny Sanford Speaks Out About Husband's Affair
Aired August 18, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Now, many of you yesterday were shocked when you saw right here for the first time that video that we showed you during an interview that I was doing with our senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, of a man who had an AR-15 rifle with him just outside where the president was speaking. This was at an event in Phoenix.
There's the picture again. He's right outside where the president of the United States is speaking, President Obama inside, this man outside.
What's interesting about this is, we now learn he was one of about 12 protesters who were packing near the president. In this video, we noticed that he was being interviewed. And you see that man conducting that interview right there? His name is Ernest Hancock. He's the host of an online radio show, "Declare Your Independence With Ernest Hancock."
Mr. Hancock is good enough to join us now.
Mr. Hancock, how are you, sir?
ERNEST HANCOCK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I am fine. Thanks, Mr. Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: Is that you in that video that we were watching right there?
HANCOCK: I am not seeing the video, but I would imagine so. Yes, I was there. And I interviewed the gentlemen named Chris. This morning, for two hours, we had him on my radio show.
And I am also broadcast under a public broadcasting network. So, a lot of people heard it.
SANCHEZ: Good for you. Good for you.
Let's listen to some of that interview, by the way, that you were doing yesterday now that we have been able to get it on the Internet. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCK: Is it your advocacy that by having guns here, we are probably all safer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely, absolutely.
HANCOCK: You know, one thing, do you -- how often -- and you ride a motorcycle. So, when you when you travel and such -- I never even notice -- are you usually armed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am almost always armed. Sometimes, like, when I take a shower, I set it down on the sink.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other than that, I'm pretty much armed at all times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it would insane not to be. It's a dangerous -- it is a dangerous world we live in. I can't carry a cop around with me. So...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There is a lot of -- go ahead and come back to me, Dan, if you can.
A lot of levity there, obviously. Nothing wrong with that. Did you know him? Did you just happen to come across him when you...
HANCOCK: Oh, no, no, no. I have known Chris for, oh, probably two years. He has been part of the "lovolution" that has swept the country around Dr. Paul's campaign.
And it started in Arizona. And, in fact, I'm the one that came up with the logo, the love logo.
HANCOCK: And what happened was, it brought out an entire new generation. I'm a libertarian activist from 15, 20 years ago.
HANCOCK: And what happened is, is they are always worried about where is the next generation coming from? Do they understand what's going on? Do they know what the real issues are?
And this gentlemen, Chris, does.
SANCHEZ: But, issues aside, you know, I have got to tell you, it seems to me, when we reported this yesterday, that this was just a guy out there who happened to coming of his own volition to this place. HANCOCK: It was.
SANCHEZ: And you happened to be a reporter who happened to go over there and interview him. And the more we look into this, the more it appears that this was really planned, that it was almost a...
HANCOCK: Oh, it was more planned than you think.
HANCOCK: We worked with the Phoenix Police Department. We talked to them. They came down to our studio Friday. They have a squad they used to call a confrontation prevention squad. Now they call it community service.
But we have gone to this for 15 years with them. And we said, look, we are going to come down. I'm going to do the radio show live. We are going to be broadcasting it. And I am going to have a firearm. I had a .9-millimeter on myself.
SANCHEZ: Well, as a matter of fact, I think I can show that.
SANCHEZ: Let's show the video now.
Dan, if you have it, this is Chris before the interview backstage, if you will. Let's listen to this.
All right, there is Chris back stage. And he's showing off his gun. He's preparing for his debut to go out there before he's interviewed by you.
Now, there is something else interesting. Freeze it right there. That's you, right?
I -- we have got video of Chris, like -- we are calling it backstage. We don't know where this is. You could take us through that. And then we see you walking by him with the microphone. This is prior to you going out there and interviewing him. And it does look like you have like what looks like a .38 or something in your pocket.
HANCOCK: It's a .9-millimeter Baretta.
SANCHEZ: Nine millimeter? Thank you for that.
So, what are you guys doing back there?
HANCOCK: We're getting ready to go. We didn't even know -- it was Thursday that I called and talked to Al Ramirez. He's the representative of the Phoenix Police Department. SANCHEZ: Yes.
HANCOCK: And we were discussing -- we had been around this rhetoric that was building up around William Kostric that did this in New Hampshire. And we knew from this 15 years ago from Janet Napolitano was U.S. assistant attorney that prosecuted the Viper Militia out of Arizona and how that was generated into something it wasn't.
So, I talked to Al. And I said, look, we know where this is going. So, we want to make sure that we come down, we be peaceful, we demonstrate the right of the people to carry their firearms and the Phoenix Police Department's protecting of our right.
They knew that this was in their best interests. They wanted to help. They assigned him to me. He never was more than four or five feet away from me. And we had law enforcement around there to protect our rights to carry our firearms at this protest.
SANCHEZ: Wait. Wait. Wait. You just said they assigned him to you?
HANCOCK: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: This man was -- that African-American gentleman was assigned to you?
HANCOCK: No, no, no , no, no, the police officer.
SANCHEZ: Oh, a police officer was assigned to you?
HANCOCK: Yes. Yes.
SANCHEZ: Oh, I see.
You know the problem I have got with this? And maybe I'm wrong. Money I'm looking at this wrong. But a lot of people are going to look at this and they are going to say, this was a publicity stunt. You weren't really a reporter who came across a guy who you were interviewing out there, as we all thought?
HANCOCK: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You knew him. He knew him (sic).
HANCOCK: Absolutely. Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: The whole thing was planned.
HANCOCK: Absolutely. You guys are so easy.
(LAUGHTER) HANCOCK: What we wanted to do was to make sure that people around the country knew that law enforcement in Phoenix Arizona protects our rights.
They weren't upset. And they are the ones standing a few feet away from us. Oftentimes, the citizenry are better armed than law enforcement. They need us on their side.
SANCHEZ: But isn't there something terribly disingenuous about putting people on like that, and isn't there also something a little bit dangerous about playing these kind of games with what I imagine...
HANCOCK: Oh, it's not a game. No, we know what we were up against.
SANCHEZ: Well, what are you up against? You were the only one there with weapons. What are you up against? You were the only one there with weapons. Ladies with brooms?
HANCOCK: Oh, no, no, no, we are up against a tyrannical government that will rob the next generation as long as they can get away with it.
If you listen -- you go to FreedomsPhoenix.com, the top story is the interview I had with this young man.
HANCOCK: And I gave him every opportunity to explain himself.
And, quite simply, he understands that his generation is going to be plundered until there is nothing left to plunder. And his message was, is that, when you do that, at some point, there will be resistance.
SANCHEZ: You mean Chris? The interview you're talking about is the interview you did with this guy, Chris?
HANCOCK: Yes, yes.
SANCHEZ: Where is he, by the way?
HANCOCK: Hiding from you.
SANCHEZ: But it looked like through the entire interview, he was laughing and joking? And he really wasn't taking this whole thing...
HANCOCK: Yes. We are all friends. We are having a good time. And the event was more peaceful. The police officers, they understand that too, when you have these people coming in by the busloads there to create a scandal. And we keep them peaceful.
SANCHEZ: I don't have any problem at all with you having 1,000 guns if you want to have 1,000 guns. And I believe in your cause and I believe in the fact that you are a libertarian.
The only thing I am questioning is whether you have to do it in such a disingenuous way, by having a fake...
HANCOCK: What was disingenuous?
SANCHEZ: I'm not finished. You're having a fake interview with a fake guest...
HANCOCK: Oh, no, it was real. It went out live.
SANCHEZ: ... under fake circumstances, pretending that you're interviewing some guy you don't even know. And we have got video of you in backroom actually planning the whole thing.
HANCOCK: Oh, no, we made it very clear that we knew each other on I. When you -- even the clip that you played.
SANCHEZ: All right.
HANCOCK: I see him all the time. Is he wearing a firearm all the times I see him? This is not a secret.
SANCHEZ: All right, does he believe this stuff, by the way?
HANCOCK: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: He does? OK.
I am not saying he doesn't. It's just because of the way he answered the questions. And he was laughing and seeming like he was...
HANCOCK: If you are not having fun advocating for freedom, you are doing it wrong.
SANCHEZ: OK. All right. Well, you know what? I have enjoyed the interview. And I am glad you came on. I am glad that we had a chance to talk about this.
God bless you. Appreciate it.
HANCOCK: You bet. Thank you. SANCHEZ: All right.
When we come back, we have got this new video that has come in that I want to share with you. Again, it's a video of the doctor who was the last person to be with Michael Jackson, apparently had been with him trying to revive him when he died. There has been a lot of heat out on him coming in from law enforcement.
And now we understand -- there it is. There is the video now. We are trying to make sure we get clearance on this. This is the first time he has spoken since the major heat as described by one of our correspondents has been on him.
We are going to take a quick break now. When we come back, we will let you see this in its entirety, because I have just been told that we have got clearance on this. Stay with us. We will be right back.
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
You saw that interview I did just moments ago. We have just now gotten a Secret Service guy lined up. And the former Secret Service agent, he is going to take us through this conversation about whether people with guns should be that close to the president. And he's also going to react to what we were just talking about there.
Before we do that, though -- that's in the next block -- let me tell you what we are going to do right now.
I have got Ted Rowlands standing by.
Ted, are you up?
Give me Ted's shot, if you have got it. There is Ted. The reason we have got Ted on is because Ted knows as much as anybody about this situation with this doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, who was apparently the last person to see Michael Jackson alive. He was trying to resuscitate him when Michael Jackson died.
Is it safe it say that this video we are going to see shows a man who is right now in a lot of heat and probably could legitimately be fearing that he could be indicted?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely. This is a guy that is at the center of this investigation. This is a guy who has had his hour searched, he's had his clinic searched multiple times. And a lot of people are saying a lot of nasty things about it.
And, according to his lawyers, he released this statement about an hour-and-a-half ago on you. And they sent the link to his patients, who they claim have been calling every day looking for updates on his well-being wishing him well.
Just imagine yourself at the center of this investigation, of all investigations.
ROWLANDS: And it is playing out in the media on a daily basis. He says he can't return phone calls, et cetera, et cetera.
This is the first time we have heard from this guy from the very beginning. We haven't heard at all -- we haven't heard his voice until now.
SANCHEZ: Let's do this. Let's you and I listen to this together. Viewers will be hearing it for the first time as well. And then I'm going to get your reaction to it.
So, here now is Dr. Conrad Murray for the first time since the -- to quote you, the heat has been on. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, PERSONAL PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I want to thank all of my patients and friends who have sent such kind e- mails, letters and messages to let me know of your support and prayers for me and my family.
Because of all that is going on, I am afraid to return phone calls or use my e-mail. Therefore, I recorded this video to let all of you know that I have been receiving your messages. I have not been able to thank you personally, which, as you know, is not normal for me.
Your messages give me strength and courage and keep me going. They mean the world to me.
Please, don't worry. As long as I keep God in my heart and you in my life, I will be fine. I have done all I could do. I told the truth, and I have faith the truth will prevail.
God bless you. And thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, there is his message. You have got to take a man at his word.
What do you think, Ted?
ROWLANDS: Well, you know, all along, his lawyers have said that this is a man who has told the truth.
And as the leaks have come out in this investigation, it seems as though he did. He did admit, apparently, that he gave Michael Jackson Diprivan in his home. And he has apparently given investigators all of his side of the story. Now, he could still be criminally liable for Michael Jackson's death. But from his standpoint and his attorneys' standpoint, they have done everything they can to help this investigation. And then you heard it there, too.
Apparently, they taped this last Wednesday in Houston. And they just decided to release it a few hours ago. I asked, is it because you think there is an arrest coming here? Is this sort of a goodbye or a -- something to be on the record before something big? And they said, no, no, no, it's just the timing has nothing to do with the investigation.
SANCHEZ: Well, it is funny. He said he was almost apologetic for not being able to return phone calls or return e-mails. He almost sounded like he's a man in hiding right now, and this was his one opportunity to get his message out.
As far as I know, this is the first time we have even heard from him on the record at all. Let me ask you this. What do your sources say he could possibly be charged with? What's he actually even being investigated for ? Is he a target of the investigation of this point? Is he a suspect? Is he a focus? What is he?
ROWLANDS: Well, you know, since Richard Jewell back in the day, we don't use the term suspect for anybody.
ROWLANDS: But, clearly, he is the center of this investigation. And the investigation has led them repeatedly back to Conrad Murray, because he was the doctor there for giving care when Michael Jackson died.
And he did apparently give him Diprivan, which is normally only used in a hospital setting. And he's giving it in this person's home. What is he looking at as potential charges? Obviously, he didn't try to kill Michael Jackson by any stretch.
ROWLANDS: But maybe negligent homicide. Liken it to someone who -- not even a drunk driver, but somebody who accidentally kills somebody with a vehicle and is negligent, maybe on the phone or something like that, those lines. Is he looking at years and years in jail? No.
But is he looking at possible jail time if convicted, if arrested? Absolutely. So, it is serious business. And according to his lawyers, he has been a prisoner in his home really since this happened. He is afraid to go out.
And his family, they live in Las Vegas. So, it is interesting. If you take a step back and you look at it from his standpoint, then you watch that video, it's like, wow, this guy is under a lot of heat, obviously. SANCHEZ: And to be fair, he deserves the benefit of the doubt and we will give him any opportunity. And I am sure you would say the same thing. If he wants to say more about his point of view on this, we certainly would invite him to come on and talk about that. Until he is formally charged, he is, like the rest of us, an innocent man.
SANCHEZ: Just to be on the record with that.
Thanks so much, Ted. We appreciate it.
ROWLANDS: You bet.
SANCHEZ: All right, here is a bigger question about the guns at political rallies topic that we picked up at the beginning of the show. Should the Secret Service create a no-gun zone around the president when he travels, just like they do right now with a no-fly zone? I am going to ask a Secret Service agent, retired, about that.
And then later, a 600-pound man who wants his insurance to pay for his gastric bypass, and you have been going nuts tweeting me about this all day long. It has really hit a nerve.
Also, remember the after-show. We do it every day at 4:00 right here on CNN.com/live. Stay with us. We will be right back.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting. We are getting a lot of tweets on this question that we have been asking. Go ahead and take that one, if you would, Robert. I just caught it right now just getting ready to go on the air.
Alicia is following up on the question that we asked a little while ago. "A gun zone, yes. There are so many more guns and crazies out there than back when other presidents -- when other attempts" -- pardon me -- "were made on other presidents."
That's an interesting question, because the question that we are posing is, there is already a no-fly zone. When the president travels, you are not allowed to put a plane or helicopter up in his airspace. Should the Secret Service start thinking about doing a no- gun zone when the president travels as well, especially when -- show those pictures, if you would.
Look at these pictures from Phoenix yesterday. That's that one guy carrying this AR-15. But we understand from our sources that there may have been as many as 11, maybe 12 other people out there who were carrying. The guy who is interviewing him, right there, that reporter who is talking to him, he is carrying a gun.
Apparently, this was all -- this radio host I should say is carrying a gun. Thanks, Angie. And, in fact, this was all a spoof, so to speak. It was planned. He just told us on the air. It was their way of getting their message out about guns, which is all fine and good. It's their right to do so.
Joining me now is Joseph Petro. He's a former member of the United States Secret Service. And he's good enough to join us.
What do you think of that idea? I have been tossing about that idea with some of the folks who watch our shows throughout the course of the day. And I am just wondering, if they have a no-fly zone around the president, should they think if this thing gets any worse, about having a no-gun zone around the president when he travels?
JOSEPH PETRO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Well, Rick, first of all, thanks for inviting me to the show.
SANCHEZ: My pleasure.
PETRO: I think there's quite a distinction between airplanes and weapons. An airplane -- a no-fly zone has a very good purpose, because an airplane could penetrate a zone at any time.
These people, these foolish stunts that are taking place around the country at presidential events really don't present any direct threat to the president. They are very far away from wherever the president is. And the Secret Service knows how to set up the perimeters to prevent anything from happening to him.
PETRO: But, in reality, what they are doing is creating a very dangerous environment. And I think it is irresponsible. And I think it should be unacceptable to -- to Americans to allow these -- these kind of activities to take place.
SANCHEZ: Well, this guy told me that the Phoenix police were in on it and that he cleared everything with them and that they knew what he was doing, and that it was really more of a protest show that was planned by them. What do you make of that?
PETRO: Well, you used the word. It was a show. And I think -- I don't know what the Phoenix Police Department did or didn't do.
But the dangerous environment that is created is really a problem for law enforcement generally. And what would concern me if I were in the Secret Service today is that these kinds of activities taking place around presidential events really is a distraction. And it is tough enough to protect the president. And they have a tough enough job.
And they really depend on local law enforcement to help them protect the president. And if the police officers have to go out and start dealing with these foolish gun nuts with exposed weapons in public crowds, they are being taken away from an activity that is much more important, and that is to keep our president safe and to keep the public safe.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. In all your years as a member of the Secret Service, have you ever seen a situation where, according to our reports, as many -- anywhere between 10 to 12 people yesterday were walking around this venue where the president was inside and they were packing? Have you ever seen a situation like that before?
PETRO: No, I have never seen or heard of anything quite like that.
And I think it's -- I think all of us should be concerned about this. What's the next step? They are going to ride around in pickup trucks with automatic weapons? It will be like Somalia. This is a -- we are a democratic country. We should be better than this.
PETRO: What's the point of them carrying these weapons? It's intimidation. And so why should we tolerate that? It shouldn't be allowed.
SANCHEZ: Well, it's free speech. It's political.
PETRO: It's free speech, but it is also...
SANCHEZ: And the point they're going to make is, we have got a right to come out here and show everybody that we are for the Constitution, which gives us the right to bear arms.
PETRO: It is probably also not against the law to bring a can of gasoline and a match into an event. But is that a good idea? No.
Having exposed weapons in public events -- and it is not just presidential events -- I would say this at any public event -- is just not -- particularly where people are disagreeing. It is just -- it's really a formula for disaster.
SANCHEZ: Politically, how much hay -- Patricia Murphy, let me bring you in to this conversation.
Particularly, how much hay can the president make about this without essentially giving more fodder to the other side? Almost that conversation we have all the time. When you make somebody a big deal, then you kind of martyr them, you know?
PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICSDAILY.COM: Yes. There is really nothing the president needs or can say about this. It really speaks for is itself.
I think, though, that what these protesters are doing, they're well within their rights. We know it was legal. I think it was responsible for them to tell the police they were going to be there, so that they wouldn't be surprised by this. But it hurts the argument for the other protesters there who have their own legitimate concerns about health care. It was a health care protest. This takes the attention away from that and it kind of lumps the entire movement in as crazy.
And it is not crazy to be worried about health care. To me, it is crazy to bring a gun to an event where the president is going to be. It is legal. But, as the Secret Service agent said, it's a terrible idea. It is like smoking in bed. You are just asking for something bad to happen.
SANCHEZ: What do you think the strategy should be for Secret Service if they start to see this becoming a pattern, especially now that it is making headlines in lot of newscasts like my own?
PETRO: Well, I can't speak for the Secret Service. But I think if this becomes a continuing problem, they may have to extend the perimeters.
But, again, I don't think the...
SANCHEZ: What does that mean? Define that for us, extend the perimeters.
PETRO: Well, they might -- instead of 100 yards, maybe it is half-a-mile. I don't know. But you could probably do that.
But I am not sure that the Secret Service views this as a particular problem at that moment for the president. I think it's a problem for us as citizens to see this kind of activity taking place at public events.
SANCHEZ: By the way, you just said something that I find curious. Jurisdictionally speaking, does the Secret Service have the right to set its boundaries, so to speak? And at what point would someone say it's an infringement if they might?
PETRO: Well, I don't know where that point is.
They certainly have a right to set up a perimeter around the president and prevents weapons from getting into that perimeter.
SANCHEZ: Inside or outside?
PETRO: Well, with inside the perimeter. Outside the perimeter, as long as they don't present a danger to the president, people have a right to do that. Whether that is a good idea or not is another question.
SANCHEZ: It is an interesting conversation. I'm so glad we had you to talk about this.
Murph, thanks so much for joining us. I will be talking to you in a little bit as well. MURPHY: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff.
All right, he tried to intervene in a dispute on the street. Did you hear about this? He ended up beaten over the head with a lead pipe. And this isn't just anybody. He is the mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And now the family of the perpetrator is saying he should have just minded his own business and he wouldn't have gotten hit over the head with a pipe. He has lost his teeth. He was taken to the hospital. He is not in a good way.
Also, this story. The wife of South Carolina's governor, even after he very publicly cheated on her, now Jenny Sanford is talking about their relationship and how they were never quite really in love, talks about his addiction and talks about his mistress for the first time. Wow. That's next. And remember the after-show at 4:00 on CNN.com/live. Stay with us. We will be right back.
SANCHEZ: Well, look who is now gracing the pages of "Vogue" magazine. Why? It's the first lady of South Carolina. It's Ms. Jenny Sanford.
In the latest issue, she says that she feels sorry for her husband's Argentine mistress, describing the governor's affair as an addiction. She's says, quote, "Over the course of both pastoral and marriage counseling, it became clear to me that he was just obsessed with going to see this women."
Quote, "I've learned that these affairs are almost like an addiction to alcohol or pornography. They just can't break away from them."
Really, like alcohol or pornography? Isn't that what any person that cheats wants their spouse to believe? It wasn't me, honey. It was my addiction.
I can't wait to read the tweets on this one. I know we'll be getting tons of them in just a little bit.
And wait, there's more. She goes on to tell "Vogue" "Everybody would like an escape sometimes. I would like somebody 5,000 miles away that I could e-mail. It's not exclusive to men, but I know that isn't realistic," she says, stop quote.
Well, maybe we should get her a twitter account. I talk to about 1,000 people every day who are about 5,000 miles away from me. She describes, by the way, her relationship with her husband this way, "We weren't madly in love, but we were compatible and good friends." Wow.
Next, from a governor who got in trouble in Argentina to a mayor who got in trouble at the state fair, and it has cost him his front teeth, and a whole lot more.
SANCHEZ: We have gotten so many posts already and so many e- mails on Jenny Sanford, some of you being just downright mean to her, others saying, you go, girl.
Let me show you a couple of these real quick. Look at this one. "Jenny Sanford should have kept her mouth shut. Like Palin, she is an embarrassment to the post-Eisenhower era women everywhere."
That is interesting. That is not a very nice thing to say about someone. But then we have a couple up here at the top -- let me see if I can find them for you real quick -- that are actually quite nice.
Everybody commented on the fact that she is physically very attractive. And this one says, "Go ahead, Miss Jenny Sanford, I admire you greatly."
And we have a Facebook one as well. This is David Ramirez right there in the middle that says, "I don't believe addictions. They are simply choices."
Well, I think most people, Mr. Ramirez, would agree with you.
What would you do if you saw you a man threatening to beat up a woman and a one-year-old baby? "Threatening" to beat up the woman is an important word there. Would you step in and try and break it up? That's exactly what the mayor of Milwaukee did, and for that he was beaten to a pulp with a lead pipe.
This is an amazing story, especially when you consider it's the major of one of the biggest cities in the country.
Here is CNN's Erica Hill.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Until this weekend, most of the questions surrounding Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett's future had to do with whether he was planning a run for governor. That all changed after the mayor was attacked late Saturday night while trying to help a woman and her granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My granddaughter's father just tried to pull her out of the car, broke my cell phone, threatened to shoot us and to shoot himself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is he right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He ran down Orchard Street. There were some people from the fair that were walking past. And I jumped out of the car and I shouted for them to call 911.
HILL: One of the people who heard the woman's car was Mayor Barrett, heading to the call after spending the evening with his family at the Wisconsin state fair. But he didn't make it home that night. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a beating on 88th and Orchard. There was some guy arguing with his girlfriend. And my uncle just tried to step in and the guy took a stick to him and hit him over the head and he's bleeding all over the place. We need an ambulance.
HILL: That bleeding man was Mayor Barrett.
JOHN , MILWAUKIE MAYOR'S BROTHER: Tom stepped up and did the right thing. He called 911 and tried to calm the situation for the grandmother and her grandchild. As a result of his actions, Tom was attacked and struck repeatedly with a metal object.
HILL: An emotional John Barrett on Sunday outside the hospital where the mayor was being treated.
On Monday, he gave CNN more details about the attack and how his brother ended up laying on the street in a pool of brother.
BARRETT: The individual, after he knocked the phone off and he stomps on the phone and says, you are not calling. He says, I have a gun, and I'm not afraid to shoot everybody here. And then Tom's kids start to cry. So Tom says to my sister, get the kids out of here.
HILL: But the mayor stayed and took a punch in the gut that doubled him over. He came up swinging and shattered his hand.
When it was all over, the mayor had also lost some teeth, had to have plastic surgery for cuts on his face, and, according to his brother, also stitches on the back of his head. Tonight, the mayor is home recovering.
And a 20-year-old suspect arrested on Sunday is behind bars. The little girl's grandmother tells CNN, they are both fine, while John Barrett is both proud and relieved.
SANCHEZ: WTMJ is reporting tonight that the family of the suspect says the mayor should not have gotten involved. That's the family speaking. And the family adds that if it had been anyone else who had stepped in but the mayor, the suspect would not have been arrested.
Before you go to break there Dan, let's go to the twitter board. The tweets continue to flow in about that story we read you moments ago about Jenny Sanford. People are always hard on women in situations like this, and this is no different.
"Ms Sanford, save it for Oprah and the book." "Miss Sanford airing her private laundry in the media is sad. I don't want to follow their marital problems. I don't care." Wow.
Then this is coming up -- does the White House have a message clarity problem when it comes to health care, specifically, the public option. Given what they have been saying over the last 72 hours, it would certainly seem so.
I have asked for a White House rep. I hope to grill him on this. It will be good for him and me and all of us. And hopefully, it will clear things up.
The water knee deep, but that didn't stop this cameraman from almost getting swept away. It makes our "fotos" segment, as in pictures.
And everybody loves the "fotos" segment today. Did you hear about the guy who ripped off $130 million in credit cards -- pardon me. I misspoke -- 130 million credit cards, not dollars in credit cards -- ripped off 130 million credit cards? You will.
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
A Latino conservative is responding to the story we just read you about Miss Jenny Sanford. And here is what the Latino conservative says. "I have to try that one on my wife -- quote, honey, I cheated because I have an addiction. Sure. That's going to work, laugh out loud."
Speaking of Latinos, we call this section "las fotos del dia." It is my part in helping America speak the Spanish. "Fotos" of course means "photos," "pictures," and "del dia" means "of the day."
Numero Uno, take a look at this pictures. It is one of the most iconic photos from the Spanish Civil War. The photographer is Robert Capa. He is a master photojournalist who covered five different wars.
Guess what? A Spanish newspaper now says this is a fake. The paper says the "foto" was staged.
Numero dos, not a fake. A television cameraman in Taiwan tries to cross a flood-swollen river. No, don't do it. The man now has a real deep appreciation for his helpers because they pull him out of there, not to mention a real deep appreciation for knee-deep water.
And numero tres. This man weighs 600 pounds, he has health insurance, and he wanted them to pay for his gastric bypass. They said, no, we won't do it. He has a website now asking for help and support.
Do you think insurance should pay for this guy's gastric bypass? Go to my blog at CNN.com/ricksanchez or twitter me and let me know. All day long we have been getting tweets on this story. And it's kind of pretty mixed.
Up next, I'm going to grill the White House on their public option or no public option. Which is it, guys? That's next.
SANCHEZ: Joining me now deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton. Mr. Burton, good to see you, sir.
BILL BURTON, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Hey, Rick, how are you doing?
SANCHEZ: I'm confused, that's how I'm doing. I am trying to figure out what you guys are trying to say over there at the White House.
BURTON: Let me help you out.
SANCHEZ: Well, is there a public option or is there not a public option? I heard back in July the president said he wouldn't sign anything that didn't have a public option. Then I heard him over the weekend saying it really didn't matter if it did or didn't.
Then I heard Kathleen Sebelius Sunday saying it sounds like we might have to do it without it. Then this morning Linda Douglass said, no, the president really wants a public option.
Which is it?
BURTON: OK, let me do two things here.
BURTON: First, I am going to say, what's most important to the president here, if we are going to fix health care in the country, if we are going to bring down costs and if we're going to increase competition, what we need to do is have a plan that does those things.
And unless we get something in place that helps bring down costs, we are not going to help to stabilize the economy. We are not going to be able to make sure that Americans aren't losing their health insurance. We are not going to be able to make sure that businesses aren't in worse shape and the federal government isn't going to be able to fix its deficit problem.
Now, what the president has said and what the folks in his administration has said, I just sent all these quotes to Ed Henry, so I can send them to you too, is that the most important part is choice, competition, bringing down cost.
But -- and he thinks that the best way to do that is a public option. And -- but he is, of course, going to sit there and listen to other ideas that people have to say.
SANCHEZ: So you are basically telling me that the president is willing to live with a plan that's passed without the public option if that's what it takes to pass it?
BURTON: What I am telling you is exactly what the administration has said, which is that the president thinks that in order to bring down costs and give people more choices, the best way to do it is a public option. But he is, of course, willing to listen to other ideas. SANCHEZ: Here is your problem politically. I have spoken today to Republicans and Democrats today. I have spoken to Democrats who say, I am not going to vote for this thing if it doesn't have a public option in it. And I have talked to Republicans who say, I'm not going to vote for this thing if it does have the public option in it.
So, you know, you are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. How are you going to get out of that hole?
BURTON: Nobody ever said health care reform was going to be easy, right? This is why we have been able to make more progress...
SANCHEZ: You have that part right, Bill.
BURTON: We have figured that out, that's for sure.
But we have been able to make more progress than anyone else over the course of the last six decades because the president has been willing to listen to folks from the Democratic and Republican Party, to people from the hospital association and the doctor association, people in the pharmaceutical industry.
And we have been able to get all these voices to the table, and the president has listened to them all. And we have been able to get a lot of concessions. Hospitals are on board. Doctors are on board, nurses. Even the AARP has said that they are looking for some kind of health care reform, which is exactly what the president is working towards.
SANCHEZ: So, for the record, the president still believes that the best way to deal with this is with a public option. That's correct, what I just said?
BURTON: Yes, that's correct.
BURTON: But the president thinks that the point isn't just any specific piece of legislation. The point is finding a way that we can bring down costs and increase choices and competition for the American people.
SANCHEZ: But it sounds like you are also saying it is not a deal-breaker.
BURTON: Well, what I am saying is that the president, and this is his way, this is how he has dealt with any range of issue, he is willing to bring as many people to the table as possible, listen to all the ideas that they have, and come up with the best possible solution that works for everybody.
SANCHEZ: All right, one final thing. Are you a little uncomfortable about what happened yesterday in Phoenix as a man who works for a man who goes out there in public every other day that there were, according to our count, as many as 10 or 12 people with weapons, some of them with what are described by some as assault rifles?
BURTON: Look, Rick, my view is that every state has different laws as it pertains to carrying guns, and there's a long tradition in this country of states having their own laws. And our feeling is that as long as people are following the laws and being safe, it is certainly well within their rights to do so.
There is a long tradition of intense political debate, and the president thinks that people ought to come and express their opinions, whatever they are, whether they agree with them or disagree with them. He's not going to go out there and start stepping on people's rights.
SANCHEZ: Did the president know about those 10 or 12 people out there who had guns when he was speaking?
BURTON: I haven't talked to him about it, so I don't know. And I want to make sure that folks know that these weren't folks who were inside the event. Those people were outside.
SANCHEZ: That's correct, nor have we said that. They were outside the event where the president was.
Bill Burton, always a pleasure, thanks for -- you know, hey, thanks for taking the heat on this. There is a lot of confusion on this issue, man.
BURTON: Rick, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: Send me that e-mail, all right?
BURTON: OK, will do.
SANCHEZ: All right, appreciate it.
All right. Who is that? Oh, no. Please, Dan, take that off. Come on. Dan. I can't believe you guys are doing to me again.
All right, look, there is an explanation behind this, OK. And this is all about a Republican senator in Texas, it's not about me. I don't know why they are showing me, but now that we showed it I have to explain to you, and I will, after the break.
SANCHEZ: Check your local listings, everybody. Tom DeLay, the former house majority leader, is going to be appearing on "Dancing with the Stars" this fall. Not a joke. Cross my heart and hope to spit. I'm told he has been practicing all summer long.
How's that image in your head of Tom DeLay dancing doing right about now? Yes, mine, too. We can help. Here's a video clip, magically.
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SANCHEZ: Oh, my god. He's got a big head, that guy.
All right, that was us messing around. All right, fine. If I make fun of him, I got to make fun of me, right? Is that what you're telling me? That's what my staff wants me to do?
So my staff, this is before -- my staff in Atlanta did this. I am going to share something with you. This is my staff in New York. This is about eight months ago or something like that.
They wanted me to fill for five seconds at the end of the show before I tossed to Larry King. So, I was going to -- five seconds, right, maybe ten seconds at the most.
Well, they goofed up their timing, somebody messed up their back- timing, as they call it in this business, and suddenly five seconds turned into an eternity. And I was -- well, let's watch it together.
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SANCHEZ: All right. They are actually getting out early. That thing lasted for about 55 seconds while everybody in the control room laughed. And, yes, I felt like a buffoon, but nonetheless, hey, you can't laugh at yourself, who are you going to laugh at, right?
Albert Gonzalez -- why am I tell bug Albert Gonzalez? In the world of cybercrime, this is one bad dude, and also a bit of a genius, too.
What he was able to do to 150 million -- pardon me, 130 million credit cards is remarkable. No one's ever done anything like this, and that's why he is now under arrest. We'll be back.
SANCHEZ: Welcome back, I'm Rick Sanchez, here at the world headquarters of CNN in Atlanta.
What do you do when you have been charged with the largest ever case of identity theft in the history of the United States? Try and top yourself, of course.
That is the charge being leveled at a computer hacker. His name is Albert Gonzalez. This guy lives in Miami, Florida, my hometown. Authorities says he is responsible for stealing -- are you ready for this? You are not going to believe this number. He stole the information from 130 million credit cards.
I will give you that number again in case you are shaking your head -- 130 million credit cards. I mean, that is a big step up from his previous record that he also held after he stole the information on about 40 million accounts last year.
But Gonzalez wasn't any old cybercriminal. This is now one of the -- he was one of the good guys. He used to work for the government trying to stop this sort of thing. And then I guess somewhere along the line he became a bad guy, a hacker.
Kevin Poulson is joining us now. He works for "Wired" magazine. Kevin, 130 million credit cards. I mean, that is mind-boggling. How do you do something like that?
KEVIN POULSON, SENIOR EDITOR, WIRED.COM: Well, first, to set the record straight, he was never actually one of the good guys. He was busted a few years back for a smaller-scale fraud operation, and then he cut a deal with the secret service and became an informant.
SANCHEZ: So he went bad guy, good guy, back to bad guy?
POULSON: Well, as far as we know, he was always a bad guy. But like a lot of bad guys, he cooperated at one point. He was basically a snitch. And then as he was finishing up his role as an informant, then he started launching a whole new crime wave.
SANCHEZ: You know what this does though? It makes me think this is easier than a lot of us think, and that really, in the end, many of us are very, very vulnerable.
I'm going to hold you over. We are going to go to CNN.com/live. So, it is a three-screen experience. Some people will be watching Wolf while they are also with their laptop watching our conversation or listening as well, and some are going to be on their BlackBerrys, as well.
So let's go to CNN.com/live.
Wolf Blitzer now with "The Situation Room." Here it is. Wolf, take it away.