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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Questions Abound in Kidnapping Case
Aired August 31, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, jaw-dropping new information in the Jaycee Dugard case. For 18 years, the woman who went by Alyssa lived in abominable, grotesque conditions. Cops say she bore two daughters to her captor, but she also held a job. For outsiders, her life appeared normal. How is that possible? We`re going to dissect Jaycee`s incomprehensible double life, living under horrifying circumstances and apparently never trying to escape her sex predator captor.
Then, file charges, already. That`s the message from Michael Jackson`s dad, demanding somebody pay for his famous son`s death. But who? Last week, the pop star`s death was ruled a homicide. Does that mean cops are any closer to naming a suspect? Meanwhile, family and friends celebrated Michael Jackson`s birthday in Las Vegas, where the King of Pop finally got a star. We`ll have all the details on the Sin City tribute.
Plus, a celebrity deejay with a known history of drug abuse found dead in his New York apartment. Detectives say it`s to early to know exactly how DJ AM died, but cops say the pile of drug paraphernalia scattered around could be a pretty clear indicator. But wait a second. Wasn`t Adam Goldstein drug-free? He`s openly talked about his past addictions to crack and Ecstasy. Did his recent plane crash lead him to another drug addiction? We`re digging deep on this one. A personal side to this story you`ll only get on ISSUES.
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, head-spinning details emerge about the double life Jaycee Dugard was forced to live for 18 long years. How did the 29-year-old woman, abducted at age 11, raise a family, work for her captor`s business, and pass for normal all the time?
Police say a convicted rapist, Phillip Garrido, kidnapped Jaycee back in 1991. Garrido and his wife have pleaded not guilty to 29 felony counts in connection with this horrific kidnapping.
For 18 years, Jaycee, along with the two daughters she had after allegedly being raped by Garrido, were forced to live in a compound of tents and shacks in his backyard. Despite that, they appeared to many of those who came in contact with them to be living a normal existence. How is that possible?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHEYVONNE MOLINO, GARRIDO BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: They made it seem like these little girls were, like, living like wolves or jungle kids in the backyard, you know, dungeon. Perhaps that is it, but they didn`t give the visual to me. They were -- they were polite; they were well-mannered.
(END VIDEO CLIP_
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That neighbor and others had no clue as to what was going on.
Where the heck were the parole agents in charge of this ex-con? You will not believe their explanation.
Jaycee worked for Phillip Garrido`s printing business, e-mailing and meeting clients. Why didn`t she say something? Was she brainwashed? Was she brought up on lies? Probably.
Meantime, Jaycee Dugard and her two daughters reunited with her long- lost family last week. Her stepdad spoke out about it on Good Morning America" this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL PROBYN, JAYCEE`S STEPFATHER: I believe the National Center of Missing Children are helping her. And they have psychologists, and they`re kind of like coaching her. And she`s just going minute by minute. So that tells you something, you know.
But she said the girls are very smart. You know, Jaycee is talking -- you know, talking to my daughter, and they`re bonding. And it`s going slowly, but it`s going OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How will this woman and her two teenaged daughters overcome all of this?
Straight out to my awesome expert panel: Pat Brown, criminal profiler and CEO of Pat Brown Criminal Profiling Agency; Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist; Tom Ruskin, former NYPD detective, investigator and president of CMP Protective and Investigative Services; Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; and my old buddy, CNN correspondent Dan Simon in Antioch, California, at the Garrido compound.
Dan, you have been on top of this story from the very start. What is the very latest?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the very latest, Jane, is that CNN has confirmed that authorities, local police, looking at the suspect, Phillip Garrido, in connection with the abduction of another young girl in California, that one also taking place a long time ago, in 1988.
Marisa -- Michaela Garecht, abducted on the streets of Hayward, California, a town also in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area. What we can tell you, that according to Hayward police, there are similarities between the abduction of Michaela Garecht and the abduction of Jaycee Dugard. They`re saying that it basically happened around the same time of day, and the way it was carried out was similar.
Even more chilling, Jane, we are told that the sketch of the suspect in that case -- and again, this happened November 19, 1988 -- the sketch of the suspect looks remarkably similar to Phillip Garrido.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that is so disturbing. And this case has taken another disturbing turn, as cops search for a link between Garrido and the murder of several prostitutes in the early 1990s. What else was he capable of?
His own father says he was out of his mind and told the "New York Post," quote, "He was a sex addict. That was his problem." And, quote, "I believe my son killed the prostitutes."
So Dan Simon, what do we know about that? Because apparently Garrido worked at an industrial park near where several women`s bodies were dumped. What`s the latest in that investigation?
SIMON: Well, we know that investigators have been poring over Phillip Garrido`s house over the last several days. They had cadaver dogs outside the house, also looking at a neighbor`s property. He was the caretaker for that property, apparently for a couple of years.
And in terms of what evidence they may have gathered, police being tight-lipped about that. All they`re saying is that they`re looking at Garrido in connection with some cold cases that took place back in the 1990s. And now, as I just told you, a bit earlier, just a second ago, also looking at him in terms of the -- another child abduction, that one in 1988, another young girl.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And just to absolutely clarify that, that young child never seen or heard from again?
SIMON: Never seen or heard from again. Apparently, from what we`re being told, her parents, looking at this Jaycee Dugard case, and this is giving them some renewed hope. The girl was 9 years old when she was abducted. Jaycee was 11. But the fact that Jaycee was found and found alive, giving that family, obviously, some renewed hope, Jane.
This is mind-boggling, Pat Brown. It`s like we`re scratching the tip of the iceberg. And we are afraid to even imagine what could be underneath that iceberg in terms of criminality of this one individual.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Absolutely. First of all, his father, Jane, saying he`s a sex addict is garbage. Sex addict simply means "I don`t want to have sex in a moral and ethical, or legal manner, so I`m going to blame my choices on that."
This man was a cold-blooded psychopath who chose to kidnap -- chose to kidnap, rape and torture women and little children. That`s how evil this guy was. This is not a sex addiction. This is psychopathy to the nth degree.
And it is very frightening that this other little girl has not been found around anyplace. So where did she go? She`s obviously not with him right now, so that`s concerning.
And prostitutes, absolutely. Why not? Why shouldn`t he do that, as well?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what makes me crazy, Tom Ruskin, is that he was on parole for years and years and years, visited regularly by his parole officer...
TOM RUSKIN, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and the undersecretary of the Department of Corrections and Rehab, Scott Curtin (ph)h, says his parole agent acted appropriately in supervising this ex-con. Quote, "The agent did all due diligence. It`s really the perpetrator in this crime that concealed this for 18 years." Hello. That`s what perpetrators do is conceal.
The first rape he was convicted of, he kept the woman in a storage locker. What did they have in the back yard here? Shacks, which is a close cousin of storage lockers. It`s incomprehensible to me that year -- month after month, year after year, a parole agent never goes in to see what the heck is in those tents and storage lockers?
RUSKIN: Forget about that. What people don`t know is parole officers don`t need search warrants to go through someone`s house to look for contraband. So as he`s going through someone`s house to look for the contraband, if he walks into the back yard, just to see what`s there, he would have been alerted years and years and years before.
What`s even more disturbing, Jane, is the fact that this man was convicted of the same crime that he`s now charged with. He was given a 50- year sentence. Fifty years, 5-0. And he`s out. And he`s -- and no one`s watching him as a registered sex offender, as a parolee, and as a man who police were alerted to years and years and years before. He fell through the cracks, and I think it`s disgusting.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think he did fall through the cracks. You know why?
WEINTRAUB: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) This is an indictment of the system, Jane.
WEINTRAUB: And it really -- we need to rewrite and revamp these laws, because they`re so over-broad, they are encompassing and treating people who are a lonely guy looking on his computer at pornography pictures, they treat him and label him the sex offender.
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: No, no. That`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we debate this issue, I want to say what`s so astounding to me about this is the detective in the first case said that he admitted Garrido told him, "I can only enjoy sex when it`s forced. Forcible sex is the only sex I can enjoy."
And despite all that, the parole officers go there, and they see this tent sitting in the backyard with all these tents and shacks, and they never look to see maybe if he hid somebody in there to have forcible sex?
WEINTRAUB: ... narrow down the supervision.
RUSKIN: ... in the first place. But the whole thing about the...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne -- Jayne Weintraub, what?
WEINTRAUB: We need to narrow down the supervision so that when somebody do time, afterwards the supervisor at least is only for the violent criminals such as this, because they otherwise, they can`t, and they don`t have the money to supervise 1,000 people. But what they do have the money to supervise and they should train people to do is supervise the 50 that really present a danger.
RUSKIN: He didn`t do his job.
WEINTRAUB: Looking at the computer is not a threat.
ARCHER: No, but they do have a difference -- they have three tiers of sex offenders: tier one, tier two and tier three. And that is specifically to be able to weed out the ones who are of a more minor nature and the more severe ones. So maybe we need to get a tier four or a tier five in there, as well, for a violent sex offender. I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
ARCHER: But the system is there in place...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang on. Hang on, panel.
RUSKIN: We don`t need different tiers.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank my buddy Dan Simon for stopping by and giving us the very latest. Great to see you, Dan. Great work on this story.
We`re going to have more on Jaycee in just a bit. We are also taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Call me about this.
Michael Jackson`s dad Joe demanding somebody be charged in his son`s death. We`ll discuss the latest in the investigation. But what are we learning about Jaycee`s two daughters? The young girl that called a convicted sex predator daddy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To these children, he`s their father. You can`t suddenly go from dad to Satan, to this evil person. So that`s going to be very sensitive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLISON JACOBS, UC BERKELEY POLICE DEPARTMENT: When I come in contact with them, just something went off. It`s like something`s up with these kids. You just -- you really couldn`t pinpoint it. It was like something that you would, you know, see in a movie or on TV or something like that, where these kids were just so robotic and they`re just not, like, acting how normal 11- and 15-, 14-year-olds would act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s one of the heroes in this case, Allison Jacobs, the UC Berkeley Police Department. She noticed something wrong when this family was behaving robotically. Nobody else seemed to pick up on it, just her and one of the other people that she was working with just two weeks ago.
Jaycee Dugard`s two kids went to a birthday party. Get this: nobody saw any signs of anything amiss, even though these kids lived in tents in the back yard of their accused rapist, their abducted father`s home.
Now, Dr. D (ph), these kids were described as normal, for example, fans of Hannah Montana, but they never went to school, never went to the doctor. How could they appear so normal?
ARCHER: Because normal is the life you`re living at the time. So they were going through their life, and to them, they were normal. They didn`t know that there was a big difference. They may have thought, well, some kids go to school and we don`t. But at the end of the day, that`s how their normal was defined, and so that was what their life was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Phones lighting up on this one. Elizabeth, Texas, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: I was wondering if Jaycee maybe has given (UNINTELLIGIBLE) more than two children and if she had any sons, if her abductor may have taken them from her at birth and maybe abandoned them or something else. And also, if they have done property searches of any lots, vacant lots that he may have owned in the past or currently.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know they`re searching every lot that he is associated with and owns. The property where these women were found and neighboring properties, as well.
Pat Brown, what about this idea of possible male progeny?
BROWN: Boy, does she have a good point, because you take a look at this girl. And she had two children, then what happened? We have a lot of years that she could have had more children after that, so the question is did he leave her alone at that point? Did they use a lot of good birth control? Or were there other children?
So there`s going to be some interviewing being done by the police and a lot of other checking around to see what really happened in those years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the -- one of the most shocking parts of this story, Jaycee Dugard was not hiding. She was working for her captor`s printing business and, as one former client explains, she was very good at her job.
BROWN: And we`re looking at a lot of behind closed doors...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very professional, very nice. You know, she spoke well, came across as just a genuine nice person. Didn`t -- didn`t see anything that was weird or like she was looking over her shoulder or nothing. Just -- she seemed normal person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tom Ruskin, some people are wondering why didn`t she reach out for help. Well, guess what? She`s got two children and would probably be in fear for their lives. How do these sociopaths, psychos work when they`re trying to intimidate somebody to prevent them from seeking help?
RUSKIN: Not only that, Jane, but there`s a thing called the Stockholm Syndrome. And you have to worry about, as a cop, when you`re dealing with hostage situation over a prolonged period of time, the person starts identifying with her captor. That may have taken place here, and it may be playing part in it.
Plus, as you bring up very smartly, the kids are being hold hostage. So she`s scared. So she has to do what her captor says, and she became used to this lifestyle.
ARCHER: Well, we have to point out that this is very important, that what she did worked. She survived. This is a guy who may have killed other women, so we should not judge her by the fact that, yes, she might have bonded with her captor, no doubt. But in the end, it`s all about survival.
That`s what Stockholm Syndrome is about, too. You bond with your captor, because you think if you bond with them, they will bond with you. And they will show you favor. So in the end, this works for her.
RUSKIN: Dr. Dale is right on mark.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. Let`s not judge this woman. She did survive. And now we`re hearing that this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of other victims who may well be deceased. So we have to actually hand it to this woman for surviving all these years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Authorities say this super-creep, Phillip Garrido, raped Jaycee Dugard and fathered her two daughters during her 18-year abduction and hostage. But these kids, Starlet, who is 15 and Angel, who`s 11, apparently never knew their mother`s secret.
Jaycee`s stepfather, Carl Probyn, told the "The New York Post," quote, "They had no idea that Jaycee was kidnapped. They just found out." He went on to say they`re upset that their daddy`s in jail.
So this blows my mind, Pat Brown, because how do you tell these kids the story of their conception without victimizing them all over again?
BROWN: That is a huge problem, because we have to look at what their lives were. Twenty-four hours a day for all of these years, this was their life. It was normal for them, even if it was closed in.
They were schooled. They weren`t schooled in a school, but they were home schooled. Obviously, some -- the girls weren`t that stupid, so they obviously were reading. They were playing. They were watching television. They were having a lot of fun sometimes at home, and having a life together.
So this is their life, the only one they know. So you can`t just go in there and say, "Your whole life has been worthless and horrible and rotten," because then you`re discrediting the children, too, saying, you know, what does that make you, then?
So you have to be very careful to say, "Not all of your life was bad. Some of your life was very, very good. It`s just there were some unfortunate things that also occurred, and we`re going to have to work with those."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Archer. Dr. Archer, weigh in.
ARCHER: If you were the mother, this is what you say to your children. "Look, I was held captive, and I did not tell you because I wanted to protect your life. Now that we are free, I want to tell you exactly what was going on during that period of time." That`s how you start it. And then you explain it.
RUSKIN: The other problem, the other thing that`s going to happen is...
BROWN: The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children are guiding them through this. And if anybody can get this family through it, boy, that organization will.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We...
RUSKIN: The other thing that we have to look for...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to look at everything, all the previous cases --and there have been horrific previous cases with parallels to this -- and use all that information to try and make this the smoothest transition, as this woman and the two teenaged girls are reunited with Jaycee`s biological mother. They are together tonight, and we pray that they are healed.
More on Jaycee in just a bit.
Coming up, family and friends as Michael Jackson celebrates what would have been the pop star`s 51st birthday. We`re going to tell you how.
Then, what`s next for the mom who`s free after 18 years of incomprehensible captivity? We`ll talk about it next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY PROBYN, MOTHER OF JAYCEE DUGARD: She`s pretty, young, innocent child and you may like her, but we love her, too, and it`s time that she comes home to her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor young woman. That was Jaycee Dugard`s mother 18 years ago, pleading for her precious 11-year-old daughter to come home safely.
Miraculously, Jaycee, now 29 years old, just reunited with her mom last week, but what was it like to try to recover from 18 years of being a hostage and that kind of abuse?
Phone lines lighting up. Suzanne, Oklahoma, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I`m calling about Mrs. Garrido. I`m wondering about her motivation and what psychology is at play.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I agree with you 100 percent. What a sicko. Dr. Dale Archer?
ARCHER: Well, I think that, from what I`ve read recently, that she was abusing the child also, so she could have had her own sickness. I think that Phillip probably was psychotic and...
BROWN: Not psychotic.
ARCHER: I think he was psychotic. This is a guy that`s talking about controlling music with his mind and talking with angels. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the neighbor said he was psychotic when she called 911 and the cop didn`t go into the back yard, unfortunately, to check it out when the neighbor called 911 and said, "There`s a psycho sex addict with children living in the backyard in tents.: The cop shows up and doesn`t go inside.
BROWN: Don`t take way the psychopathicness of this. Some people don`t realize that you can be psychopathic for most of your life and have psychotic incidents that come in with it, as well.
But totally psychopathic, because he planned very carefully everything he did. He had enough reality in his head to make choices and plan things and hide things for a very, very many years. So he`s not totally psychotic.
ARCHER: Pat, Pat, there`s a big difference between being psychotic and using the insanity defense. We`re not...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait, wait. I want to get to him, because I want everybody at home to hear this guy`s voice and decide for themselves just how psycho he is. Phillip Garrido spoke to reporters last week. Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS GARRIDO, ACCUSED OF ABDUCTING JAYCEE DUGARD: The last several, several years, is I`ve completely turned my life around, and you`re going to find the most powerful story coming from the witness, from the victim. You wait. If you take this a step at a time, you`re going to fall over backyards and in the end, you`re going to find the most powerful heart-warming story and something that needs to be understood. That`s about as far as I can go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, you`ve dealt with a lot of criminals as a defense attorney. Heartwarming story? What? My head`s going to explode here.
WEINTRAUB: Yes. I mean, you can hear the depraved demeanor, and I`m sure Dr. Dale will address that.
The first thing as a defense attorney that you need to do, obviously, is call in true psychiatrists who can unravel this man and see and diagnose properly what is wrong with him. What went wrong with him in this situation, because as a defense attorney, you don`t just make things up, contrary to what people think. You have to go by what the experts tell you, and you have to listen and evaluate it. And then, then you decide what to do in compliment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tom Ruskin, I`m giving you the last 20 seconds.
RUSKIN: It`s -- this whole case is so inconceivable, you wouldn`t believe it unless you had seen it. It`s inconceivable to me, and I go back to the 50 years. How he`s out after a 50-year sentence, after serving just a portion of it, is beyond me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I agree. We`re going to have to leave it right there. Thank you, fantastic panel.
Coming up, manslaughter charges in the Michael Jackson homicide case. What does it mean? The latest jaw dropper from TMZ. You don`t want to miss this one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: File charges, already. That`s the message from Michael Jackson`s dad, demanding that somebody pay for his famous son`s death, but who?
Last week, the pop star`s death was ruled a homicide. Does that mean cops are any closer to naming a suspect? Meanwhile, family and friends celebrated Michael Jackson`s birthday in Las Vegas, where the King of Pop finally got a star. We`ll have all the details on the Sin City tribute.
Plus, a celebrity deejay with a known history of drug abuse found dead in his New York apartment. Cops say it`s too early to know exactly how DJ AM died, but detectives say the pile of drug paraphernalia found scattered around could be a pretty clear indicator.
But wait a second. Wasn`t Adam Goldstein drug-free? He`s openly talked about his past addictions to crack and Ecstasy. Did his recent plane crash lead him to another drug addiction? We`re digging deep on this one. A personal side to this story you`ll only get on ISSUES.
Tonight: a stunning revelation about the Michael Jackson death probe fueling speculation about Dr. Conrad Murray`s fate days after Michael Jackson`s death is ruled a homicide. The "Los Angeles Times" is quoting sources familiar with the investigation who stress that a manslaughter prosecution is not -- I repeat, not -- inevitable. They cite Jackson`s well-known history of drug use and his health problems.
This is a position staked out by Dr. Murray`s own attorney, Ed Chernoff, two weeks ago. He told "The Times" when Dr. Murray first took the gig as Jackson`s personal physician he was quote, "not aware of any specific requirements regarding medications or any addictions that Jackson was suffering from," end quote.
This morning, on NBC`s "Today" Michael`s father, Joe Jackson, did more to fan the flames of a wider dragnet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want someone to pay?
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: Well, someone should pay, not just someone, but all of them should pay that`s involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the doctors?
JACKSON: I didn`t say doctors. Anybody else that`s involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody that`s involved should pay?
JACKSON: That`s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who`s he hinting at? As for what Dr. Murray`s attorney thinks of what Joe had to say on "Today" we asked and they told us quote, "we have no knowledge of this at this point," end quote.
Meantime, a shocker from TMZ about this adorable child who is now a 24-year-old man: we will tell you what possible connection this person may have to Michael Jackson. So much to get to.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend and former Jackson spokesman; Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist; and Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition" and of course amazing fill-in host right here on ISSUES.
Jim, what is the very latest on this investigation? A lot of people are wondering, are charges ever going to be filed against anyone?
JIM MORET, ATTORNEY & CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": I think charges will be filed. If you listen to Dr. Conrad Murray`s lawyer, he was quoted in the British tabloid today saying basically what we thought might happen, and that is Jackson did it.
We heard from Conrad Murray`s attorney according to the "News of the World" that Dr. Conrad Murray set up an IV with 25 milligrams of Propofol because Michael Jackson had asked for it. Then Dr. Murray leaves the room and then Michael Jackson turns up that IV and that`s what killed him.
The problem with that kind of defense is that Dr. Murray admits that he gives the Propofol, which he shouldn`t have given in the first place. He admits he walks out of the room, which he shouldn`t have done if he had given him Propofol. So I don`t know that that`s a great defense.
And I think that one of the problems is you start beating up and tearing down Michael Jackson himself. And if in fact Michael Jackson was asking for specific drugs by name, then you know or should know that he`s an addict and it`s a crime to give drugs to a known addict. So I think there are some problems with this line of defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, cause of death we now know, acute Propofol intoxication; manner of death, homicide. Everybody`s wondering where the charges -- hypothetically speaking -- would it be possible that this time lag could be explained by some effort to reach a plea deal, given the complexities of this case, the fact that Jackson was an addict, the fact that there was a cocktail found in his system. And who knows exactly where all the drugs he had around him came from or who ordered them. Could there be a plea deal being negotiated as we speak, hypothetically?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there could be. I`ll tell you what I`m sure there will be is a civil suit and I`m sure that there, you know, is check-off for negligent, yes, grossly negligent, yes. Will he have his license revoked, yes? Is this criminal? Is this manslaughter, rising to the level of reckless disregard which the death could have been foreseen? That`s the kicker in any homicide (INAUDIBLE) across the country.
As a defense lawyer, the answer is obvious. The small amounts that he was giving Michael Jackson were not lethal. They may have become lethal because of all the other things that Michael Jackson was taking that this doctor did not know about.
Should he have? What else can he do but ask Michael Jackson? Ask the patient. When the patient lies or manipulates, that`s a problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why you`re a defense attorney, Jayne Weintraub.
WEINTRAUB: You don`t convict this doctor for that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good defense attorney language there. Joe Jackson never fails to make his share of perplexing statements during TV interviews.
This morning`s today show appearance was no exception.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you angry?
JACKSON: No, I`m not angry. I`m mad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you mad about?
JACKSON: I`m mad about because I didn`t know all this was going on. That`s what I`m mad about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t know Michael had a problem with these medications?
JACKSON: I didn`t know he was taking that type of medication.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Firpo Carr, when Joe Jackson says he wants everybody involved to pay, should we take him literally, meaning that he would like some kind of financial settlement and have people pay up in a wrongful death suit? And could that hypothetically include the person or the corporation that may have contracted Dr. Murray, namely, the promoters of the concert?
FIRPO CARR, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND & FORMER SPOKESPERSON: Absolutely. We`re talking about AEG; that`s who he`s talking about. He`s also talking about the three people that Conrad Murray spoke with at 11:00 or after 11:00.
We would recall call that actually this man had his cell phone with him and he spoke to three different people. Who were those people? Why did he call them?
So Joe Jackson I`m sure thinks that hey, these people are culpable as well. He wants biblical justice. He wants come-uppance. He wants...
WEINTRAUB: He wants money.
CARR: He wants just desserts. It`s more than money. If you lost a son, I don`t care who you are, even Joe Jackson, if you lost a child, you`re going to want more than money. So I resent that statement.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I think what you`re talking about is the fact that 90 minutes elapsed between the time Dr. Murray told cops that he found Jackson not breathing and until the time 911 was called. And I think that a crucial factor will be who was he on the phone with?
But hold on a second. There`s another big story here. A few minutes ago, we showed you two photos of an adorable child. Now, here`s the supposed connection to Michael Jackson. TMZ, which posted these photos, is reporting that Prince Michael Malaki Jet Jackson, yes, that`s his name, who is now 24, has come out of the woodwork to claim he is Michael Jackson`s third son.
According to documents the young man has requested a DNA test to prove it. The mother is listed as Zirlene Dixon. And TMZ also said Michael Jackson`s family has pressured the young man to keep quiet.
Firpo, do you know anything about this child?
CARR: Anything that Michael Jackson did, any supposed or alleged dalliances that he had was news to me because of course, as I said, I was one time cast as his spiritual advisor and I`m sure after he went and did anything that he is alleged to have done, he would not come to quote, unquote, "His spiritual advisor and say hey, listen, I got my swerve on last night."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got my swerve on.
Jim Moret, you have been covering this so long, we have all read the Jackson biographies that are this vague. This is a new one. I didn`t know anything about this young man.
MORET: I never heard of getting your swerve on so I`m learning something new.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I like it. I`m going to use it.
MORET: I`ll tell you something, this estate has $400 million in debt but it may still have assets of $200 million, which gives you $200 million reasons to say you`re related to Michael Jackson. Who are we kidding? Let`s face it, there will be people coming out for the next ten years saying that they`re related to Michael Jackson.
The problem is, look, I really believe that there are two separate tracks on this investigation. There`s one into what killed Michael Jackson, but I think the California attorney general is taking a wider view and looking at abuses with prescription drugs, all this doctor shopping, all of these aliases. And I think you`re going to have criminal charges potentially in both areas.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then Drew Findling, you also have the DEA investigation and you`ve got these reports which Dr. Klein`s attorney denies that claim that they`re in the affidavit, actually, that he wrote prescriptions to himself for a whole bunch of drugs. Again, he says he didn`t do that but we could have various levels of charges and some of them could be from the DEA.
DREW FINDLING, ATLANTA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I think you`re going to see in the long run that`s going to be to me, the most serious part of the case. I don`t think you can underestimate what Jayne said and that is that this is more of a civil case than a criminal case.
If this were John Doe, there wouldn`t be a criminal case but because of the celebrity status of this and the weirdness of being treated at his home, there`s a criminal investigation.
The bigger problem is the federal part of the case. That is the distribution and unorganized and at-will way in which these drugs were distributed. That`s going to call for the DEA and the enormous subpoena power of a federal grand jury. That`s where heads are going to roll. It`s not going to be as sexy but that`s where heads are going to roll in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, excellent panel.
Coming up, Chris Brown breaks his silence. The singer sat down with Larry King in his very first interview since the February attack against Rihanna.
And could another tragedy have been avoided? DJ AM found dead in his apartment days ago. Police sources claiming drug paraphernalia at the scene. We will talk about the life and death of this very talented young man.
We want to hear from you about this. Give us a call. 1-877-JVM SAYS; 1-877-586-7297. We`re talking addiction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. People across America are grappling with addiction and I`m one of them. In my new book, "I Want," I reveal details of my own personal battle with alcoholism and how I finally got sober more than 14 years ago.
It`s a recovery memoir due out this fall. You can pre-order your copy right now. Just click on cnn.com/jane and look for the pre-order section.
If you know someone with a substance abuse problem or an eating disorder this book will help you cope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The death of DJ AM came as a shock to everyone. Was this another celebrity relapse turned drug overdose? We`ll analyze that in a minute but first, "Top of the Block."
In his first interview since he attacked Rihanna back in February, Chris Brown speaking out about the subject with CNN`s Larry King. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS BROWN, R&B SINGER: I`m in shock because first of all, that`s not who I am as a person and that`s not who I pride myself on being. So I just, when I look at like the police report or hear about the police report, I don`t know what to think. I just don`t know what to think.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: You remember doing it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The rest of that interview airs Wednesday night on "Larry King Live." Some of the details in the police report state that Brown pushed Rihanna`s head into the car window and repeatedly punched her while he was driving.
Additionally, a probation officer`s report claims there were two prior altercations between the couple. In June, Brown pleaded guilty to felony assault. He was sentenced last week to five years probation, a year of domestic violence counseling, and 180 days of community labor. The two singers were also ordered to stay away from each other. Good idea.
DJ AM found dead in his New York City apartment. Is this yet another case of a Hollywood star losing the battle to drug addiction?
Cops found celebrity deejay Adam Goldstein shirtless and in sweatpants lying face down on his bed. The cause of death still unknown, but according to reports, his body was surrounded by crack cocaine and a pipe. Prescription pill bottles were allegedly found in his kitchen.
The popular Hollywood deejay has always been open about his struggles with drug abuse. He said he was sober for 11 years and he was in the process of filming a reality show designed to help addicts get clean. He spoke about the power of addiction in this chilling interview with "MTV News" just last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DJ AM: It`s been tough, you know? I`m like on the borderline of seeing people in their disease that I used to be in, but I have to know why I`m there, you know. And there`s no better way for me to remember how low my bottom was than to see someone else at their bottom and offer them a chance out of it.
It`s necessary, I think, for the family to realize ok, this is actually what`s happening behind that bedroom door. This is, you know, I may find them dead if I don`t do something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. This was somebody trying to help others break away from addiction, but apparently, he couldn`t save himself. So what triggered this apparent relapse? Could it be connected to the plane crash he survived last year?
Straight out to my amazing expert panel: Dr. Reef Karim, addiction specialist; and psychiatrist, Dr. Dale Archer; and Mike Walters with TMZ.
Mike, you`ve been on top of this tragic story. What is the very latest?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Well, we`ll start Jane with we`re told it absolutely is connected to that crash. It`s the most ironic thing. It`s unbelievable that this guy survives the plane crash, a fiery plane crash, where he has horrible burns. He actually has post-traumatic stress disorder of some sort, and then he`s taking anti-anxiety medication because he`s a deejay, world-renowned, and has to fly from L.A. to Vegas to New York to do these gigs.
So he gets on medication so that he can fly because obviously, he has anxiety to fly after that crash. And as any addict knows, any drug, especially benzos like Xanax and things they give you like that nature can get you right back into addiction.
We`re told that`s exactly what happened in this case. He admitted to being addicted to crack cocaine but getting back on this medication, because of this crash, he fell back into the addiction. He was found with crack cocaine, several bottles of prescriptions, we`re told stuff like Xanax and anti-anxiety medication.
But I got to tell you from experience, and I`ll leave it with this, I saw DJ AM live several times. It is a huge loss for all of the community, deejay community, club scene. And it`s very, very unbelievable, we`re talking about death of another young celebrity because of prescription medication and drugs in their bloodstream at the end of their life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is rough. Dr. Karim, it`s true and I say this as a recovering alcoholic, you have to be vigilant if you have some kind of medical issue that forces you to take mood-altering substances. That can trigger the craving and re-inspire, reactivate the disease.
DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Reactivate is right, Jane, absolutely. This has absolutely rocked the sober community.
DJ AM was a pillar in the sober community, helping so many other addicts. His speaking meetings were packed. His shares were really well received. He helped so many people. And for him to have this kind of thing happen and this tragedy has just rocked the community.
Here`s the deal. Addiction is a chronic relapsing illness. It doesn`t go away. All these people that talk about cures, forget the cures.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a joke.
KARIM: I know. This is about managing the disease. You have the disease when you`re an addict. You manage it. You get into the sober community, you get the support network, you do service.
If you need to be on meds that are non-addictive, you get on the meds. You do what you have to do. It`s like it goes into hibernation -- it`s like a bear that`s in hibernation. When you wake up that bear, when you wake him out of hibernation and you give him Xanax, you give him Valium or you give him Vicodin, you light up your limbic system. As you said very well Jane, you reactivate that system.
Suddenly you`re not just craving the Xanax or the Valium. You`re craving the drugs you used to do when you were using.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. And DJ AM had a long battle with drug abuse. At one point he called himself a fat crackhead who was lucky to be alive. Those are his words.
He hit bottom when he tried to kill himself. It didn`t go off. He decided to change. And he said he stayed clean for more than 11 years.
Let`s listen to him weeks before his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DJ AM: I always find every single addict that I`ve met I`ve bonded with. You know, I speak addict. I am one. And they -- you know, for the first time see someone who`s sober, who made it out. You know, once I told them, like I know what it`s like to be that obsessed with getting high and feel like you can never stop.
And I know your biggest secret, that you think that you can`t go through life without using something.
And right away they kind of, you know -- everyone at least that I`ve met so far has had that feeling and identified with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Every addict and recovering alcoholic, as I am, knows all we have is today. I`m 14 1/2 years sober. It doesn`t matter. There`s no time. It`s a daily reprieve, as Dr. Reef says. There is no cure. You can`t go back to being a cucumber when you`re a pickle.
We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fired up. All in ten minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was DJ AM Performing with Travis Barker at the MTV Video Music Awards. Adam "DJ AM" Goldstein found dead in his New York City apartment on Friday. Very, very sad, sad case.
Phone lines lighting up. Donna in Kansas, your questions or thoughts.
DONNA, KANSAS: Oh, yes. I...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Donna? Okay, Donna. Go ahead.
DONNA: Oh. I -- thank you for taking my call. I watch your show often. I really love you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
DONNA: Also, you know, I`m a recovering alcoholic, an addict, and I have had 10 1/2 years sober. And then I had a relapse and went into crack cocaine.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I`m so sorry to hear that. Are you back now?
DONNA: I`m back. I have about 2 1/2 years.
But it is -- crack cocaine, it was just -- it gets in your head. And you know, you wanted -- I sometimes will talk to young people about alcoholism and drug abuse and abuse to do with women.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Donna, I want to congratulate you on your newfound sobriety. You`re back. That`s the important point.
Dr. Dale Archer, she has a good point. Crack cocaine is a very hard one to kick.
ARCHER: That`s true, Jane. But I think that any excuse will do for an addict to relapse.
And what an addict has to ask themselves when they face a stress, and this can be a minor stress like the break-up of a short-term relationship or a horrific plane crash. They have to ask themselves, is this the excuse that I`m going to use to justify my relapsing into my addiction?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me jump in here and say this is not just an excuse. Last September DJ AM and Travis Barker, the drummer for Blink-182, were the only survivors of a devastating plane crash. They escaped as the plane burst into flames, and both were badly burned and in critical condition, Dr. Reef.
KARIM: Yes. This is not an excuse. This is a brain disease that also has psychological impact and has impact on their social setting.
Here we`re talking about an acute stressor of the plane crash, possibly a fear of flying, prescription pills added on to that, and the pain and the medications associated with the pain. There are absolutely psychological implications here.
But let`s be honest, this is a big, big deal, between medicine and psychology and mental health and ...
ARCHER: There`s no doubt.
KARIM: ... and anybody who is an addict, who has medical problems, needs to have an addiction doctor involved or has to have a medical doctor who understands the disease of addiction.
ARCHER: But doctor, you have to understand that at the end of the day every addict is responsible for their own health, their own life, and their own addiction.
And I agree, it is a brain disease, and absolutely, it needs to be treated medically. But that does not in any way, shape, or form shirk the personal responsibility...
KARIM: But don`t ever call it an excuse. I`m teaching you the lingo of addiction. You`re doing an injustice to the world of addiction if you`re going to call it...
ARCHER: If you`re going to take personal responsibility seriously then you can call it whatever you want...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what. We`re out of time because it`s such an important subject. But we`re going to bring you all back because we need to keep talking about addiction. It`s one of the biggest problems in America. Thank you.
Remember, click on cnn.com and preorder your copy of my new book.
You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.