Return to Transcripts main page


More Revealed on Mind of Jaycee`s Alleged Rapist

Aired September 8, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, bone-chilling new details in the Jaycee Dugard case. Turns out this monster has allegedly used captivity and bondage in the past. The storage unit he kept one of his victims in was set up like a theater, complete with stage lights, porno magazines and a projector.

Meanwhile, parole officers who stopped by to check on this guy never uncovered the house of horrors right in his backyard. How is that possible? This one case has sparked new demands for a complete and total overhaul of the parole system.

And an NFL superstar`s accuse of choking MTV star Tila Tequila. This isn`t some reality TV stunt either. The MySpace diva, who weighs 100 pounds soaking wet, claims linebacker Shawne Merriman choked her when she tried to leave his house, but Merriman claims he was just trying to stop her from driving drunk. So who do you believe?

Also, was Ronald Cummings arguing with his then-girlfriend the night his daughter disappeared? New information pouring in on the search for little Haleigh Cummings. We`re getting eyewitness testimony from people who saw Ronald and his girlfriend Misty the very day little Haleigh vanished.

And what about claims that someone overheard Misty allegedly talking about bad stuff she`d gotten from a drug dealer?

Plus, never-before-seen pictures of Caylee Anthony. Showing this beautiful little girl before her unthinkable nightmare began. And as Casey`s defense team, panicked by side shows like the Zanny the nanny case and the check signing trial, they`re now fighting to have the civil case thrown out. Is this so they can focus on the murder trial?

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Horrifying new revelations tonight about the sexual obsessions that drove Phillip Garrido`s violent crime spree. Years before he allegedly snatched little Jaycee Dugard, Garrido`s personal war on females already had a sick theme: drugs and bondage.

He told a psychiatrist in 1977 that LSD fueled his sexual powers. He also described images he used to heighten his arousal. He said, quote, "There has been a type of bondage pictures: women in handcuffs, chained," end quote.

When he kidnapped Katie Hall in 1996, he bound her with handcuffs and a leather strap and took four hits of LSD. She says Garrido raped her for more than five hours. Listen.


KATIE HALL, VICTIM OF PHILLIP GARRIDO: Phillip went out to answer the door. And he came back in, and he said, "It`s the heat. Am I going to have to tie you up or are you going to be good?"

And I said, "No, I`ve been good. I`ll be good. Don`t tie me up."

And so he went back out with the receipt. And I sat there for a minute, and I thought, if there`s a policeman out there, I have to try.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Authorities say just one hour before kidnapping Hall, Garrido tried to abduct another woman. She escaped by jumping out of a moving car with Garrido`s handcuffs still attached to her wrists. The officer who represented him that day had this to say.


DAN DEMARANVILLE, RETIRED POLICE DETECTIVE: He`s sick. He`s not stupid. But he`s not crazy. He`s sick. He should have been neutered when he got out of federal prison. That would have stopped all this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is such outrage over this case, it`s sparking moves to redo the whole parole system. But I have to ask, would any of the proposed changes really have made any difference in this particular case? We`re going to debate it.

Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: forensic psychologist Brian Russell; former New York City police detective Tom Ruskin; Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and WABC talk radio host; criminal defense attorney, Darren Kavinoky as well.

You know, I have to start with the shrink on this one. Brian Russell, let`s start with the very uncomfortable subject of bondage. The fact is, bondage is a very common fetish that is often practiced as a game between consenting adults. But what happens when there is no consent? Does it immediately cross the line into violation and violence, and thereby, become a crime?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there`s sort of a sex and power continuum, Jane. For adults, sex with other adults is one of our most primal survival-based desires. And so having somebody else be willing to submit to us is sort of within the normal realm of what`s sort of -- on the mild end of the continuum sexually exciting to a lot of people.

It`s when you get down to the other end of the continuum, where somebody has to have -- they have to be forcing themselves on someone or inflicting pain on someone in order to get aroused. That is sexual sadism. It`s profoundly disordered.

But here`s what it doesn`t do, and this applies to pedophilia also. This is what everybody needs to understand about the sexual disorders, these paraphilias. They don`t force anybody to do anything. The desire is the wanting this perverted stuff. But to do -- go out and actually act on it, actually fulfill those fantasies, that is a psychopathic choice to inflict harm on somebody else for one`s own pleasure.

These people`s desires to do these perverted things they want to do are no stronger than our normal viewers watching us right now, desires for normal sexual behavior with other adults. It`s just that they choose not to restrain themselves as the rest of us do to the appropriate time, place, and manner to have sex. And they go out, and they force what they want out of other people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren Kavinoky, you are not only a criminal defense attorney, but you`re also an interventionist. You have done interventions on many, many addicts. Is there is an addictive component to this bondage in the sense that you would need to do something more intense to get the same result and, therefore, it`s progressive like addiction?

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s exactly right. It is progressive. There are tolerances to certain kinds of behavior. And people that engage in this kind of behavior are constantly upping the ante in looking for new and more powerful thrills.

And of course, in the way that you framed your question, Jane, about this being unconsensual bondage, of course that`s not OK under any circumstances and becomes criminal.

RUSSELL: Exactly. Absolutely right, Jane. And these people typically escalate over time, which is why we have got to stop letting them out. And if we ever are going to let them out, then we can`t do it until we`ve got a monitoring system that is good enough to make the kind of thing that happened to Jaycee Dugard impossible. And until we can guarantee that, they`ve got to stay in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The big question: how many more girls and women might Garrido have victimized? Now we`re learning Jaycee Dugard`s childhood friend is convinced the Garridos targeted her just a week before they snatched Jaycee. Listen to this new information.


AMELIA EDWARDS, JAYCEE`S CHILDHOOD CLASSMATE: I remember hearing the tire tracks pull onto the dirt road behind me, and freaked me out. And I remember walking faster. Hearing the tires go faster. And that made me even more scared. And so then I ran home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She barely got away. But did more girls fall victim to Garrido? Police still looking for Ilene Misheloff and Michaela Garecht. Two girls abducted in the late 1980s. Their abductions have several similarities to Jaycee`s.

Curtis Sliwa, this is horrific, because it is all so preventable. In a second, we`re going to get to the many mistakes that were made in this case.

But when you look at the potential that this guy may have done so many other crimes, given the time that he was out, it really makes it exponential in terms of the mistake that was made in letting this guy out.

CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Oh, no question. And in `72 remember he had raped a 14-year-old who wouldn`t testify. So he was cut loose. And obviously he just kept ratcheting up.

Now I don`t know about all the psychobabble I just heard. I like the cop who initially busted him in South Lake Tahoe, who said, "If you can`t keep your rocket in your pocket, if you misuse it, you should use it -- lose it." Castration should have been this guy`s cure a long, long time ago when he was in Leavenworth and we were even thinking of paroling him back into society.

Because, Jane, he was wanting this. He was telling us of these controlled urges. So I don`t want to leave it to the shrinks or the psychobabblists. I know you snip it and they can`t use it anymore.


KAVINOKY: Yes, we`ve got this one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, hold on, hold on.

KAVINOKY: Hang on, you`ve got a problem with the Constitution here and this whole little notion of cruel and unusual punishment. And while I appreciate what...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What you are talking about, Darren? I love you, but they let him out 40 years early.

KAVINOKY: Well, look, but -- look, we lock people up for what they do, not necessarily what we think they may do in the future or what we fear that they`re going to do.


KAVINOKY: We lock them up for the acts that they actually commit.


KAVINOKY: And the idea of castrating the guy just seems a little bit excessive to me. That`s all that I`m saying.

RUSSELL: It wouldn`t have necessarily stopped it. It really wouldn`t. There`s a -- like I said, there`s a power component to this stuff that the castration wouldn`t stop. Which is why you`ve got to keep them away from the rest of us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robin Sachs, you are the former sex crimes prosecutor, and you`re the author of "Predators and Child Molesters." I`m not suggesting -- although chemical castration sometimes, when you look at the horrific nature of these crimes, if they are going to let them out 40 years early, then I`d say chemical castration is the way to go.

But I`d say the best way to deal with it is just keep them in however many years you sentence them to. What drives me insane is that it doesn`t matter what you sentence somebody to, they never serve the amount of time. So it`s like it`s nonsense. You say somebody`s going away for 50 years, and they get out in ten years. Why do they do that?

ROBIN SACHS, FORMER SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Jane, you`re absolutely right. It`s a total miscarriage of justice what`s going on here in this case, and I don`t know if castration is necessarily the answer. I tend to think that isn`t necessarily the answer. Then they`ll just go digitally penetrate with their fingers. They`ll use their mouth or find some other way to sexually abuse.

But the idea in this case is that it`s not just a problem with the laws, which may have been a problem back in the early `70s, which aren`t so much the case now. But the bigger problem is that this went beyond just the few little missteps, beyond a few little missteps. This was a cluster on top of cluster on top of error on top of error at the loss of the Dugard family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and we`re going to go through, when we come back, the litany of errors. In fact, we have to break it up, because there`s so many errors we have to put it in three or four different segments. Because we couldn`t add them all up. We`d be here for 45 minutes talking about all the errors if I just read them from beginning to end.

More on this horrific monster and this house of horrors in just a bit.

We`re taking your calls on this story: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. What do you think about this? Should the laws be changed?

Also, reality star Tila Tequila says she was choked by NFL star superstar Shawne Merriman. But the 265-pound linebacker claims he was just trying to stop her from driving drunk. What really happened? Somebody`s not telling the truth.

But first, more of these gruesome details in the Dugard case, including a look inside of this monster`s hideous, disgusting, revolting past.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1972 case, certainly indicates that he is a predator, somebody who wants to prey on younger girls.

I think we have a long way to go. I think there`s a lot more to be looked at. And it would not surprise me at all if more victims were located.






PROBYN: On Pineyard Boulevard, my daughter was just kidnapped. On top of the hill, it was a gray Ford. A man and a woman in the car.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Jaycee Dugard`s stepdad, calling 911 after witnessing her abduction. Absolutely chilling.

Phillip Garrido would never had been on the streets, had it not been for the countless mistakes by law enforcement and the entire California corrections system.

Now back to my expert panel and the phone lines lighting up.

Mary, Rhode Island, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks for calling.

CALLER: I know that no one from the parole board went in the back and checked up on what he was doing in the yard, but wouldn`t that town have any building inspectors, zoning ordinances, that could have checked on all of the garbage and tents that were back there?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent, excellent thought. Tom Ruskin?

TOM RUSKIN, FORMER NYPD POLICE DETECTIVE: Yes, they probably do. But what`s screwed up here was probation and parole. They should have been through the house. They should have looked through. They don`t need a search warrant. What people don`t know is probation and parole do not need a search warrant to come in your house and look through it.

Had he walked into the house, had he searched the house, had he gone into the back yard, he would had seen it. And probably a year into his probation parole, had been back in jail, and Jaycee would had been freed.

You know, law enforcement screwed up here. And even when the sheriff was called four years before she was freed, they didn`t search the backyard either. Even though the complaints were that kids and a woman were living in that back yard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, let`s go over it. Law enforcement made so many mistakes in dealing with Phillip Garrido we actually have to break it down for you.

1972 rape charges against Garrido were dropped because his alleged 14- year-old victim would not testify, but police say he kidnapped and drugged her and a friend. Couldn`t he have been prosecuted on something?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another huge oops. Investigators admit the case file in that first file, lost. Couldn`t find about it. They didn`t know about it until the girl called in the wake of this whole scandal and said, "Guess what? He raped me."

Then in 1998 Garrido was paroled after serving just 11 years of a 50- year rape sentence. When he violated parole in California after that, officials in Nevada should have been informed so they could have locked him up again. Never inform. They were never told that there was a parole violation.

In 2006, somebody called 911, as you just heard Tom Ruskin say, to report children living in tents and sheds behind Phillip Garrido`s home. Police went to the home, but they did not check the back yard.

Authorities went to Garrido`s house, in fact, more than two dozen times without discovering Jaycee and her daughters living in sheds in the back yard.

Curtis Sliwa, when you hear that litany, it`s enough to make your head explode.

SLIWA: Oh, Jane, but think of it. Three times a month he had to report to the parole officer or the parole officer had to do an on-site visit? What was the parole officer coming over for, a cup of coffee and a cannoli? Didn`t he think, "Let me look from the back yard. Gee, boy, this looks like something special. What`s that tarpolin? How come you have a subdivision back there?"

My God. Scrape the barnacles off of their backside. And remember, this was an agent who only had 40 cases. So he can`t claim that he was overburdened, because he had only the worst of the worst. And you would think if you`re dealing with the worst of the worst, you`re going to check them for belly button lint under an electron microscope.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robin Sachs, you`re the former sex crimes prosecutor. What kind of training do these parole officers get? Do they any kind of, like, "Here`s how detective work is. Here`s psychology so that -- here`s - - look at the past crimes. And you can try to see what he might do in the future"? Any of that?

SACHS: Absolutely. Not only does parole have training on how to be able to search a house day or night, with or without a warrant, but they also have the key red flags to look for when you`re looking at a sex offender.

And perhaps the greatest tragedy that`s yet to come from this case that no one`s talked about quite yet is the fact that this weakens the perception of the sex registration for every victim out there. All the people who are out there who are being -- who proposed to do away with the search registry are pointing to this case to say how is the registry helping anybody? And this, frankly is giving those people some legs to stand on. And is a disgrace to the California justice system.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, because of this...

KAVINOKY: Jane, and the fact of the matter is, and there`s pending legislation now that is to address this problem. That because of budget crunches and understaffing and things of that nature, there`s a certain segment of the parole population that`s probably over-managed. And there`s a huge segment that`s under-managed under-investigated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Darren, I want to get to this...

KAVINOKY: There`s so many dropped balls. What are you doing (ph)?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... because there`s a litany of mistakes in this case. There`s been an uproar of calls for change in California`s parole system. Yesterday, just yesterday a prison reform bill passed California`s assembly. Now, here`s how that proposed law aims to fix this mess.

Reduce the number of parolees per officer from about 100 to about 45 parolees. So less of a case load. Reduce the number of state prisoners by 40,000 with deportation and other methods. And finally, all inmates leaving on prison or on parole for a minimum of one year.

Guess what? I do not think any of those remedies would have done a single thing, Tom Ruskin, in this particular situation. Nada.

RUSKIN: I -- I am so glad you called on me. It`s from -- law enforcement in the beginning messed this case up. What they didn`t do is Phillip Garrido was wearing a leg thing on his -- on his leg, a monitoring device. They didn`t look and see who came within this close of Jaycee the day she got abducted? He only lived 200 miles away.

Why they didn`t search that radius for known sexual offenders and visit them and go through with their probation and parole officer. She may have -- she may have been discovered within the first month. Not to mention he owned the same type of car that she was abducted with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Russell, do these parole officers -- we`ve only got a couple of seconds -- need to get training in psychology so they can get inside these guys` heads?

RUSSELL: Absolutely. You made an excellent, excellent point. They need to know what I`m always saying, that these guys typically don`t get better. They typically do it again, and they typically escalate. So we`ve got to do better psychological training on what to look for.

I hate to be, you know, too tough on the law enforcement case.


RUSSELL: I don`t the cop to commit suicide over it, but we`ve got to learn.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang in. We`ve got another segment coming up. Head- spinning new details in the Haleigh Cummings case, too. Some eyewitnesses claim Haleigh`s dad and his then-girlfriend were fighting the day this little girl vanished. What were they fighting about?

But first, we`re going to have more on his -- this monster, Phillip Garrido.



DEEPAL KARUNARATNE, GARRIDO BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: She is a very, very beautiful person. I believe she`s a beautiful person from outside and inside both. She`s very pretty and very intelligent. Very polite and kind. Nice and professional.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And there was no indication in all of your dealings with her that anything was amiss?

KARUNARATNE: No, never. I have never seen anything, any red flag. And she has never indicated anything.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels, what really makes my head spin is that that gentleman, and many others, knew that Jaycee was there working in Phillip Garrido`s printing business. She went by the name Alyssa, which was undoubtedly the name that he gave her at some point, but they never -- they talked to her and she was on e-mail.

And yet how come the parole officer never found out that this person, that all the neighbors and the business associates knew about, existed?

SLIWA: Well, not only that, they had the print shop right there on the grounds. It`s like they`re running a business right there. You figure the parole officer would say, "Hey, maybe I need some new business cards. You know, the taxpayers are paying for this." And he`d walk over there and have a conversation.

It just seems that law enforcement, all they were doing were filling out paperwork, Jane, and just showing that they were at the site, that they were following up on their job. They weren`t taking a personal interest.

Now you look at this predator. You say this is an enemy of society. We ought to be on top of this guy 24/7, 3-6-5. Not let him breathe. Remember, he was making songs with some other guy, some other gavone, in which he was talking about his love of children and how he wanted to have sex with them. And this guy wasn`t even reporting it. You`ve got to say to yourself...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Russell, Brian Russell, not only that but we`ve talked to people who said that he used to run around singing "Like a Virgin," the Madonna song, almost as if he`s taunting people to figure this out.

Now, listen, we all have problems with government bureaucrats. A lot of them do outstanding work, but if you ever call the government agency and gotten anybody on the phone when you call or you get a busy signal? That`s what I get, a busy signal. Is there a certain level of bureaucratic incompetence that invades these massive institutions like the parole department, where people know they`re not accountable. They just fill out forms. They go to work, and they really don`t care.

RUSSELL: Absolutely. And you just reported one of the provisions in the California reform bill, is that we`re going to cut the caseload for these parole officers from 100 down to 45. Think about that, Jane. Forty- five. That`s still less than one hour a week allocatable to each parolee.

Curtis is right: we`ve got to be on top of these guys all the time. And less than one hour a week is not going to cut it.

KAVINOKY: There`s one fundamental problem, if I may, Jane, and that`s this. We lock people up for taking the actions, but that`s really the symptom. It`s not the underlying problem.

The problem is we`re doing precious little to deal with people`s belief systems, their thoughts that they can commit crimes and get away with it. Or these fundamental, psychological behavioral problems. That`s where we need to focus our energies. And we can`t act surprised when people engage in recidivist criminal behavior when we`re not doing anything to address the reasons that they go and...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, Robin. You get the last word, Robin Sachs.

RUSKIN: ... and keep them in jail.

SACHS: I am jumping out of my chair right now because I think that Darren just said on national television to prosecute people for their criminal thoughts. I want everyone to play this back in court and remind him of this statement.

KAVINOKY: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe we should focus on drug addiction, because this guy was an LSD, an acid head. And if we had put him in a treatment program and spent the money on treating him when he was a teenager, perhaps he wouldn`t -- we wouldn`t have had to spend all this money and lose all these poor children.

RUSKIN: I have one better: let`s just keep in jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll be right back. Tila Tequila.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was Ronald Cummings arguing with his then-girlfriend the night his daughter disappeared? New information pouring in on the search for little Haleigh Cummings, including eyewitness testimony from people who saw Ronald and his then-girlfriend Misty, the very day Haleigh vanished.

Plus, never before seen pictures of little Caylee Anthony showing this beautiful child before her unthinkable nightmare began. And is Casey`s defense team panicked by sideshows like the Zanny the nanny case and the check signing trial?

NFL star, Shawne Merriman arrested after his girlfriend, reality TV`s Tila Tequila claims he choked her. Tila Tequila says the San Diego charger grabbed her neck and wouldn`t let her leave his house.

Now, look at this girl. She is teensy tiny. There she is. The guy is a linebacker. But Merriman insists he did not attack Tila Tequila. He says he just tried to stop her from driving drunk.

Now TMZ has this photo of them at a club on the night of the incident and it`s no secret, Tila partied it up on her MTV show, a shot at love.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys ready to party?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are things going to fall apart?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re losing control.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be with you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a shot at love.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doesn`t seem like very sober behavior to me, does it? Get this -- Tila says despite her nickname and all of that you just saw she doesn`t drink alcohol.

She went to the hospital that night but reportedly had no visible injuries. How`s that possible when she`s 4`11" and he towers over her. One thing`s for sure, somebody is lying somewhere.

Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky; prosecutor Robin Sax; and psychologist Brian Russell.

Let`s start with the attorney who has worked interventionist, my dear friend Darren Kavinoky. Darren, this battle is getting more and more heated. I would have to say, at the very least, somebody involved in this is addicted to drama.

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, indeed. I think there`s more than a little. There`s more than enough to go around and I hope when Ms. Tequila did make it to the hospital that somebody took some kind of a forensic sample so that we can see whether or not there was any alcohol percolating through her system.

As you mentioned at the top of the show I do have quite a bit of experience in the intervention world and perhaps this is a case that`s crying out for one. Although if what Merriman says is true, we`re all going to owe him a big apology at the end of this since he was trying to keep an intoxicated person off of the roadway if that turns out to be the truth, that`s certainly a laudable goal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and don`t mess with Tila Tequila because she`s got 243,000 followers on Twitter and she`s the tweeting queen. However you say that. You know that`s a dangerous word to mix up. So I better -- I better be careful.

I will just stick with the word tweet. She`s a tweeter; she`s the top tweeter.

Tila says there was no way she was drinking because she`s allergic to alcohol, people. Tila reportedly tweeted "I`m allergic to alcohol. That`s how I got the name Tila Tequila, because of the irony. I can`t drink."

But a club owner claims he spotted Tila that night taking shots and sipping straight from a vodka bottle. So somebody`s got it wrong. The question is, who?

Check out this clip from her MTV show, exhibit B.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve just got to toss it into the cup. And when it goes into the cup, drink the beer.

I`ve really enjoyed spending the day in the life of Tila Tequila. And I`m looking forward to many more a days in the life of Tila Tequila.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Okay, now, does that look like somebody who`s allergic to alcohol?

I mean, Brian Russell, this is bizarre. Either she`s a great actress or the club owner who said he saw her swirling a vodka says, quote, "Sounds like she`s allergic to the truth."

BRIAN RUSSELL, PSYCHOLOGIST: There`s a couple of interesting angles. One thing you mentioned is this twitter angle. Number one thing topic that I get asked to speak on is to how law enforcement officers can identify people like Garrido but you know what the number two topic is?

The number 2 topic is to speak to employers and lawyers and judges about how texting, twittering, Myspace, Facebook, all of this is sort of the new face of defamation and sexual harassment in this country. Because if this guy didn`t do anything but try to keep a drunk woman off the street there are some probably seriously defamatory stuff in some those tweets.

You also mentioned addiction to drama. And that exists; we have a name for it. It is called borderline personality disorder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, Tila we`re not calling you a borderline personality. Please do not sic your 243,000 followers on me with your tweets.

Robin Sax, what I find very bizarre about this whole thing, if she is in fact allergic to alcohol, why she`s so obsessed with it? Why is her name Tila Tequila? Why does she talk about a shot at love? Why is every piece of video that we`re seeing here about alcohol consumption?

ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR: As I prosecutor, I am hiding out if I am watching this videotape, just in case, and pretty quickly. Because it is never good when your impeachment comes vis-a-vis or it comes vis-a- vis the statement online, on TV, from the bartender who was there that night.

There are some serious credibility problems and I would think some serious charging problems from the prosecution`s angle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I don`t have any idea who is telling the truth. We have to say very, very specifically that Shawne Merriman says he did not do anything to this woman. He`s hired an attorney. He says he was simply trying to do this girl a favor, not let her leave the house drunk so that she would pull a Nicole Richie and end up driving the wrong way down the freeway.

She says, "I don`t drink and he choked me." So we don`t know who is telling the truth but as funny as this might seem it is actually two very serious issues, Brian Russell. And what it is, is the issue of domestic violence and the issue of addiction and alcohol abuse. That`s why this is a big story is that it touches on these two issues that are so dominant in our culture.

RUSSELL: Yes and as you and are always noting I think we`re on the same page on this. If this is not true, if this guy did not abuse this woman in any way then all this does is a disservice to all of the women out there who truly are in abusive situations.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are right.

RUSSELL: And don`t make reports because they`re thinking look, nobody`s going to believe me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re so right.

KAVINOKY: And on the defense side -- yes that is absolutely right -- and on the defense side, I can`t tell you the number of cases where I`ve seen men who were actually innocent of what they were accused of. Yet they were on the receiving end of these kind of charges that are used to get leverage in child custody cases, that may be used to get your name out there in the media, perhaps. There can be all kinds of ulterior motives to level these kinds of false charges.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know. We have to leave it right there.

This is not the way I want my name in the media. Sometimes just spelling your name right is not enough especially when it`s Tila Tequila. Thank you, fantastic panel.

It`s national recovery month and if you`re in recovery you`re invited to A&E`s recovery rally and march over the Brooklyn Bridge. I`m going to be your mistress of ceremonies. Join me and 10,000 other sober people, Saturday, September 12th.

I talk about my struggle to get sober in my new autobiography which is called "I Want." I write about how everything in my life changed after I put down my last drink more than 14 years. It`s a shocker all right. You won`t believe some of the things that changed.

To order my book, just go to and look for the order section. If you`re battling drugs, booze, sugar or food or know somebody who is, this book could really help you.

Head turning new developments in the case of missing 6-year-opened Haleigh Cummings: could new clues finally help investigators get a break in this case?

Cops from Satsuma, Florida, went all the way to Massachusetts to question a couple in connection with little Haleigh`s disappearance. Guess who that couple was? Haleigh`s stepmom, Misty`s brother and his wife.

Now we already know Ron was very upset with Misty herself after his daughter went missing on her watch.



911 OPERATOR: Ok. Sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.

CUMMINGS: I need somebody to (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: Ok. Can I talk to her?

CUMMINGS: How the (BLEEP) can you let my daughter get stolen (BLEEP)?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did Ron and Misty also have a huge fight before little Haleigh went missing? And did Misty fail a new polygraph test?

We have the answers for you straight out to my dear friend, investigative journalist, Art Harris. You`ve been knee-deep into this investigation. You`ve go some new information. What is the very latest.

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Jane, is reporting that Ron and Misty in fact had a terrible fight the night before Ron got home from work at 8:30 p.m., my sources tell me, he phoned Misty and they were fighting on the phone about her wanting to go baby-sit a relative`s children.

She wanted to go; Ron didn`t want her to go. Then he tried to reach her after that. She didn`t pick up her phone until 3:15 a.m.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. Now, just clarify for me because we`ve all heard that 911 call of him coming home. And she`s sort of in the background. And he screams, "I don`t know what she`s wearing." When was that argument in relation to that 911 call?

HARRIS: Back up one night, Jane. You remember that Misty came home on Sunday night after a three-day party.


HARRIS: With White Boy Greg Page and some other party friends. I`ve interviewed and have their interviews on my Web site She comes home. They make up, I`m told. But they`re up all night talking on Sunday night.

He oversleeps, in fact. They get up in a hurry. Try to race Haleigh to school. And then later they come back, take a couple of hours of a nap that morning. And then he goes off to work after she picks up Haleigh at the bus stop.

Coming back home, he leaves. And that night, they start calling each other. He calls her at 8:30 and then he can`t reach her after that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what -- we only have a couple of seconds. What`s the significance of that argument?

HARRIS: This is in the crucial time window when investigators don`t know exactly what Misty did. And that`s why they put out the public plea for anyone who may have seen her away from the trailer to come forward.

This is an unknown right now. She has failed polygraph tests and a voice stress test discussing these stories.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank you again, Art Harris, investigative journalist, great work as always. Come back soon. Thank you.

Coming up, cops find a boy who vanished nearly two years ago hidden behind a wall at his grandmother`s house. Why is he being kept from his own mother now?

Then, brand-new, adorable pictures of Caylee Anthony released. What role, if any, could they play in Casey`s trial? We want to hear from you; 1-877-JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297. Call me about Casey.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More drama in the Casey Anthony murder case: we`re going to tell you why a judge delayed a civil suit against the alleged daughter-killer but first "Top of the Block" tonight.

A young boy kidnapped by his mom two years ago during a nasty custody battle has been found. You will not believe where. Cops say Ricky Chekevdia has been kept hidden in his grandmother`s house since 2007 locked in secret rooms behind walls, forced to live in the crawl space between the floors, anything to keep him from being found.

The mom, allegedly behind it all, claims she hasn`t done anything wrong. Hello? Is she that delusional?

The court has ordered that little Ricky remain in state custody while he undergoes counseling. Meantime, the boy`s dad has been granted visitation. The judge`s ultimate goal from this morning`s hearing, reunite this little boy -- how cute is he -- with his papa.

The boy`s mom not allowed to see her son, at least not until the next court hearing. Let`s just hope she uses this time to get some much-needed psychiatric help. You know, lady, there are other saner ways to deal with a nasty custody battle than hiding your kid in the wall.

By doing what she allegedly did, she proved her husband`s case for him. Good job, way to go. That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."

Turning now to the latest blow to Casey Anthony`s defense: just hours ago a judge delivered bad news to Jose Baez and the rest of the Casey team when he refused to dismiss the defamation suit brought by Zenaida Gonzalez at least for now.

Zenaida says Casey ruined her life by using her name in creating this twisted tale about kidnapping poor little Caylee. This on the heels of a prosecution evidence dump that includes adorable new photos of the murdered child taken by grandpa George Anthony with his cell phone. Will these heartbreaking images have an impact on perspective jurors?

Meantime, more unflattering and I mean unflattering audio from interviews between investigators and the associated bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla. Listen to what Tracy Mclaughlin said about a very flirtatious Casey on the day Casey was sprung from the slammer last August.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rob is driving her and he is doing this little - - he`s driving, he takes his sunglasses off and looks through the rearview mirror and they`re talking. And she takes her sunglass off.

The next morning she`s going, "I put on eye make up today for when we play the sunglass game. And it`s just all fun and games for her."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Casey, your daughter was officially missing at that point and you`re playing the dating game? Huh, so much it talk about. I want to know what you at home think. Give me a holler.

Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: the one and only Curtis Sliwa, founder of Guardian Angels; Brian Russell, attorney and forensic psychologist; Robin sax, prosecutor and author of "Predators and Child Molesters;" and Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney, a.k.a., "The Voice of Reason."

Darren, let`s go big picture here. We`re talking check fraud, defamation, and there`s also the murder trial. Could Casey`s defense team really handle all of this at the same time?

KAVINOKY: Yes, if we`re going big picture here, Jane, I don`t think they care about anything other than the murder trial. I mean there`s not exactly a deep pocket to go after with Casey Anthony. Presumably she could avoid all of this by filing bankruptcy even if she does get tagged with some kind of an adverse judgment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What you are talking about?

KAVINOKY: Their focus better be -- their focus better be that they`re just defending this murder case and the rest of this stuff, who cares.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but what did you mean by that she could just declare bankruptcy? I mean, she`s charged with check fraud. Isn`t that a criminal offense and she`s going to go to trial for that?

KAVINOKY: Well, that part, sure. But let`s say she does get convicted for check fraud, what kind of penalty or punishment is she going to be look at while she`s been in jail all of this time? I`m sure...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh you mean because she`s broke?


KAVINOKY: No, I`m talking about because of the time that she`s now spending in custody, that check fraud is the least of her worries. She`s getting credit while she`s in custody pending any kind of trial on that case. It`s not a concern.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok now I get it.

All right, how bad do these interviews with Leonard Padilla`s associate Tracy Mclaughlin make Casey look? Listen to what she told cops about Casey`s attitude. Judge for yourself.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, you want to know something really sick. She had me put a watch around my ankle. I have a picture of it. I would have a monitor too.

I said, "They have a hair sample and they have the band that shows decomposition but they`re not sure if it`s yours or Caylee`s." And she said, "I`m alive." And I said, "I know."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, Curtis Sliwa, that is horrifying. You know they found a hair and they said it showed one Anthony family member was deceased. And she said, well, "I`m alive."

CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Let me tell you something, you are talking about real sickolas here. And this woman on trial and those pictures of that darling little baby girl, that smile, and you say to yourself, "How could you?

I mean, if I were a juror I would have to recuse myself. I`d have to say no. I want to fire up old sparky. I want to put her in stark state penitentiary and I want to juice her in the caboose.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at these photos, Robin Sax. Look how adorable they are. Are they going to be presented to the jurors?

SAX: Oh, you betcha. They will be presented in front of the jury; these and many more that I have a feeling will dribble out over time.

And I have to take issue with the voice of reason, Darren Kavinoky. I think that while everything does point to the murder trial the civil trial, Zanny the nanny`s defamation suit directly plays into the murder trial because if that evidence gets in in the form of prior testimony that`s prior testimony to impeach and could be very useful for the prosecution.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were challenged.

KAVINOKY: Yes. Robin loves to throw down the gauntlet and challenge the voice of reason.

Here`s my point, is that all of these other ancillary -- these other ancillary matters, they pale in -- I hear the background music. You`re cutting me off here?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what... Hang on. Hang on.

SAX: Saved by the bell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there, we`re going to have more on the Casey Anthony trial right after the break.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just found a human skull on Suburban Drive in the woods by the school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you. I told you Ray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I told you she was there. It`s a child`s skull with duct tape across the mouth.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was a police dispatch tape from December 11th, 2008, the very day little Caylee`s skeletal remains were found. That call was placed by a utility worker and his dispatcher in the field.

Here`s the story with that duct tape. Channel 6 in Orlando reports one of the prosecutors discovered that that tape you`re looking at there, found with the body and on the gas can in the Anthony home, was an extremely rare brand of industrial fire-resistant tape. Get this. Statistically the odds that that same tape would be on the body and on the gas can -- that that was a coincidence -- 250,000 to 1.

And Robin Sax, you`re the prosecutor. How are they going to take that astounding piece of evidence? Because that to me seems like a really hard piece of evidence, not a bunch of gobbledygook. How are they going to present that to the jury effectively?

SAX: It`s certainly not -- you can`t call that a coincidence. All you have to do is lay that evidence out and throw it up in the air and wait for a defense attorney to try to do something with that because I think if a defense attorney does, you lose all sorts of credibility if you try to mess with those odds.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, game, set, match if the duct tape found on the body is the same as the duct tape found on a gas can that belonged to the Anthonys and that duct tape turns out to be extremely rare?

SLIWA: There she goes. There goes the case. I mean, anybody sitting there as a juror would have to say what is the likelihood of that?

And then notice, the person on trial herself is -- there`s so much baby mama drama involved with this woman that you`re looking at her and you`re saying, gee, what a despicable human being you are. You`re like a three-eyed cousin fornicator. I just can`t believe that you lived the kind of life you did.

And all of a sudden I think collectively the jury just says down she goes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, we`ve got some more. Did Casey slip up? Bodyguard Tracy Mclaughlin says Casey talked to her about chloroform before investigators ever discovered the link between chloroform and this case.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I bring up GHB elements, have you ever heard of it. I`ve used it before. I know a lot about it if they call it a date rape drug now. So I brought that up and asked her if she`d ever heard of it. And she says, "Oh yeah." But I mean if I would have said have you ever heard of LMSQP, she would have said yes. That tells you she agreed with everything.

And I said, "It`s in a liquid form and you can take cap and you take a little bit too much and you`re out. And she said like roofies. And I said yes, or ether. And she said or chloroform.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren Kavinoky, Tracy says she thought it was mindless chitchat. But then traces of chloroform turned up in Casey`s trunk and it can be used as a knockout drug. Tracy also says she was there when Casey learned there were signed of decomposition in the air in her trunk. Get this. Instead of breaking down Casey said, quote, "A lot of people have access to that car," end quote.

KAVINOKY: Well, as far as this witness is concerned, this sounds like a fun person to cross-examine when they are talking already about their understanding about GHB and their knowledge of drugs and their dealing in the drug trade. That`s great stuff for cross-examination.

The rest of that stuff you mentioned, Jane, not good facts for the defense, obviously.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to leave it right there. Thank you, fantastic panel.

And click on Pre-order your copy of my new book, "I Want."