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CNN: SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT
Inside the Fort Hood Shooting
Aired November 7, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Muslim. Medical doctor. Military man. The three public faces of Nidal Malik Hasan. But underneath his measured calm, perhaps the perfect storm.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: She was lying in a pool of blood with about three or four people trying to help her.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: Attacking another soldier, it's just ridiculous. I don't understand it.
LEMON: Who is this U.S. soldier accused of mass murder? A quiet, devout Muslim? Or a man who came to believe in jihad, holy war? This is a CNN special investigations report "INSIDE THE FORT HOOD SHOOTINGS."
And good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon in Atlanta.
What happened at Fort Hood, Thursday, stunned this country. Twelve soldiers and one civilian cut down. The man accused of killing them an army major. Soldiers would seek out Major Nidal Hasan once they were back stateside to talk about the horrors of war. This time the military psychiatrist is accused of creating horrors of his own. CNN's David Mattingly is at Fort Hood.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The homes of Killeen, Texas, began to empty as deployment orders roll in. Among those with marching orders, 21-year-old Keara Bono and 39-year-old Nidal Hasan. One, a military wife ready to go.
STEVE BONO, FATHER OF SPC. KEARA BONO: She wasn't scared, that's what I think about her. She never once said why am I doing this? She was gung ho.
MATTINGLY: The other, a military psychiatrist who wants out.
MOHAMMAD HASAN, MAJOR. HASAN'S COUSIN (through translator): There was racism toward him because he is a Muslim, because he is an Arab, because he prays. He decided to leave the army for good and hire a lawyer to do that.
MATTINGLY: And one former soldier, Kimberly Munley, now a civilian police officer at Fort Hood is determined to keep the peace on and off the military post.
ERIN HOUSTON, NEIGHBOR OF OFC. KIMBERLY MUNLEY: A lot of us on this neighborhood were single military moms, you know, alone. Our husbands were deployed so having her in the neighborhood, you know, really made us feel more safe.
MATTINGLY: The fates of all three, now on a collision course set for Fort Hood, Texas.
Thursday morning, November 5th, Major Nidal Hasan enters this convenience store at 6:20. The store owner says he usually orders coffee and hash browns. In this surveillance video obtained by CNN, he is seen carrying a beverage and dressed in traditional Arab garb. The night before Major Hasan had cleaned out his apartment, handing out frozen vegetables and furniture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He gave me the steamer.
MATTINGLY: And on this morning, the Koran to a next door neighbor, Patriciaa Bhia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he gave me all those things I said, wow, he should be real like into God, you know?
MATTINGLY: Then four hours later -- (SIRENS)
SPC. FRANCISCO DE LA SERNA, U.S. ARMY MEDIC: I was in there reading a magazine, and all of a sudden I heard a couple of gunshots go off. And you get that, you know, half second of disbelief before you hear, you know, ensuing gunshots afterwards. And that's when everyone in that area just scattered. They all ran sprinting, you know, to whatever cover they could. Some people ran to their cars. Some people ran to, you know, the wood line.
MATTINGLY: Inside the soldier readiness facility according to witnesses a man on a rampage. With a pistol that holds 20 rounds, gunning down those preparing to deploy. Specialist Keara Bono, who's just arrived on the military post for her deployment takes a shot to the shoulder, another bullet grazes her head. She still manages a frantic phone call to her husband.
BONO: When she called him, he could hear guns and hear her crying, and then the phone went dead.
MATTINGLY (on camera): At that very moment, Sgt. Kimberly Munley is just a few blocks away. She is alone and driving. She's taking her police car to the garage for service. So when the frantic 911 calls come in, she's the first to respond.
CHUCK MEDLEY, FORT HOOD DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY SERVICES: As you can imagine, there were, you know, people running, screaming, there were some wounded. You know, it was quite chaotic.
MATTINGLY: Munley follows the sounds of the gun fire, turns a corner and then authorities say she comes face-to-face with Major Nidal Hasan. He has left the building and is outside shooting at a wounded soldier who is trying to escape. Munley fires twice, Hasan turns and fires back.
(on camera): Who went down first?
MUDLEY: She did.
MATTINGLY: Munley is wounded in the wrist, but continues to fire.
How do you keep shooting after you've been shot in the wrist?
MUDLEY: Her description of it was she wasn't particularly worried about that wound. She described it as just a scratch.
MATTINGLY: That's when another officer arrived and opens fire. When the shooting is over, Munley is wounded in both legs and bleeding badly.
Spec. Francisco De la Serna is one of the first medics on the scene.
SPEC. FRANCISCO DE LA SERNA, MEDIC: She was lying in a pool of blood so I grabbed a tourniquet out of my bag, put it around her leg, and tie it down until the bleeding stopped. But it was definitely a very life-threatening injury. You can bleed out very, very quickly from an injury like that.
MATTINGLY: But the medic's work is not done. He then begins treating the prime suspect. Hasan has been shot four times.
DE LA SERNA: He wouldn't answer any of my questions. You know, I was trying to get an answer. You know, what's your name? Do you have any allergies? Any medical problems?
MATTINGLY: Inside more victims of the rampage dead and wounded.
DE LA SERNA: The scene was complete chaos. There are people screaming, crying, there is blood everywhere. All I can smell is urine and blood.
MATTINGLY: The shooting lasts just ten minutes leaving 13 dead and 38 wounded. Amazingly specialist Keara Bono is among the survivors.
BONO: I'm blessed that my daughter is OK. My hearts go out more to the people who have lost loved ones. I mean, I feel extremely grateful to be standing here with a smile on my face and not coming here to visit a dead soldier.
MATTINGLY: The violence is over. But the morning has just begun.
LT. GENERAL BOB CONE, U.S. ARMY: It is a terrible tragedy. It is stunning. As I've been at the scene, soldiers and family members and many of the great civilians who work here are absolutely devastated.
MATTINGLY: There is praise for the neighborhood watchdog who put her life on the line. And endless questions about the disgruntled psychiatrist accused of bringing so much harm.
As an investigation looks for answers, a military community so accustomed to losses on the field of battle must now deal with the pain inflicted by one of its own. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it happens in your own backyard, it is a shocking thing.
Dear God, have mercy on those people.
MATTINGLY: And tonight the army releasing the names of the 13 who were killed in this rampage, ten men, three women, most of the men in their 20s, the youngest, Don, was just 19.
LEMON: David Mattingly. Thank you, David.
Major Nidal Hasan, devout, isolated and angry now hailed as a hero by the radical Muslim fringe who heavily recruit people just like him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love Osama Bin Laden. I love him like I can't begin to tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Who are these radicalizers, and who is the real Nidal Hasan?
We are digging into his past, including some never before seen video from his high school years next.
LEMON: What we're hearing about Nidal Hasan, we've heard about plenty of murder suspects -- a nice guy, a quiet outsider known by few before he allegedly pulled the trigger.
LEMON (voice-over): For five years, this was the spiritual home of Nidal Hasan. An army doctor, he came to this Maryland mosque almost daily to pray, often still in his fatigues. Many recognized him and yet few here say they really knew Hasan at all.
Dr. Asif Qadri was one of the few to ever really connect to Hasan.
DR. ASIF QADRI: He was so soft and gentle.
LEMON: Quiet, gentle and now a man accused of slaughtering 13 people in the worst massacre to ever occur on a U.S. military base.
QADRI: You could never think this would be a person who had something boiling inside or something was wrong, you know. Never.
LEMON: Days after the rampage, Hasan remains an enigma, a little known loaner. His life story begins in Virginia. His parents were Palestinian immigrants who owned this grocery store in Roanoke. He is the eldest of three boys.
JAMES JORDAN, HASAN'S HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE: We shared a class together. AP, advanced placement history class.
LEMON: James Jordan remembers him from high school. Here Jordan watches the Nidal he knew when they were briefly friends who would cruise town in Nisan's car.
JORDAN: He was studious, quiet. He is sort of unassuming. He was pretty much concerned with his studies, and I got the impression that he helped his family out with the restaurant, with the family business. That and studying was how he spent his time.
LEMON: But even the studious Hasan broke out of his shell occasionally. Listen as you get a chance to hear his voice, a teenage kid trying to tell a joke in Arabic during history class.
MAJOR NIDAL HASAN: (SPEAKING ARABIC)
LEMON: Hasan seemed to leave few other impressions at Fleming High School in Roanoke, a yearbook picture, but no sports, activities or clubs, no favorite teachers or life-long friends.
With his parents now dead, their business is now sold, little trace of the Hasan Family remains in Roanoke. A cousin in Ramallah, Mohammad Hasan remembers a man who had few connections even to family.
M. HASAN (through translator): He likes to do everything by himself. Up to this day, he was living by himself. He was even a bit distant from his siblings.
LEMON: And when his parents objected to his plans to join the army out of high school, cousin Nadir Hasan says Nidal did it anyway. By his late 20s, Hasan's path was coming clear. He graduated with honors in biochemistry from Virginia Tech, accepted an Army Commission, studied at the military's medical school and buried both of his parents.
Hasan was becoming a doctor and his cousins say growing more devout in his faith. But it was a tense time to be a Muslim in America. After 9/11 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, relatives say Hasan felt a growing conflict and a gathering rage as a Muslim in the military.
Anderson Cooper spoke to a soldier who went to medical school with Hasan, and said Hasan was vocal about his anger.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER (via telephone): He was very outspoken opponent of the war on terror. And even equated the American war on terror with a war on Islam. Those views were a large part of his personality for the entire year. And he would routinely get into discussions and arguments with people.
LEMON: For Hasan, it may have been a perfect storm. A deepening faith a growing anger, a sense of discrimination and the horror stories he told relatives he was hearing at work. By 2003, Hasan was posted to Walter Reed Army Medical Center as an intern, resident, then physician. Hasan counseled veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. But there were some problems. The Associated Press reports that Hasan required counseling and extra supervision as an intern, and that he once received a poor evaluation for his work. Still, Hasan stayed at Walter Reed for six years. For Nidal Hasan there was work and the mosque.
IMAM FAIZUL KHAN, MUSLIM COMMUNITY CENTER: I'm totally shocked and horrified.
LEMON: Imam Faizul Khan presided over the mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring.
KHAN: Well, I knew him pretty well. You know, we conversed sometimes in a daily basis. We'll talk about religion.
LEMON: One of Hasan's few personal requests, he asked Khan to help him find a wife.
KHAN: He was looking for obviously a Muslim woman. She must complete hijab covering and then she must pray five times per day. Those are some of the conditions he wanted.
LEMON: Hasan did not find a mate, but in May he received a promotion to the rank of major. Still he told his cousin, he was treated unfairly.
M. HASAN (through translator): He was a major in the army, and other majors wouldn't treat him equally as a major should be treated. They would say, yes, you are a major in the U.S. army, but you are still an Arab, a Muslim. He was bothered by that a lot. He wasn't respected as he should have been.
LEMON: In a written statement sent to CNN, the army insists "Diversity is the strength of our Armed Forces in today's arm. The U.S. Army and the Department of Defense have strong policies in place prohibiting harassment based on gender, ethnicity, race, et cetera."
In July, Hasan was posted to sprawling Fort Hood in Texas to continue his work. But the problems persisted. The manager of Hasan's apartment complex says Hasan's car was vandalized and a Muslim bumper sticker destroyed by a fellow solder. Val Finnell told Anderson Cooper that Hasan made himself a target.
DR. VAL FINNELL, FORMER CLASSMATE OF MAJ. HASAN (via telephone): Hasan made it a point to be very vocal in his beliefs. He was very extreme in his views. And since he was a military officer, you know, he was questioned about those things. So he sort of brought the criticism upon himself.
LEMON: Recently Hasan had apparently started airing his positions online. In a blog entry attributed to him, Hasan compared suicide bombers on GIs diving on grenades to save others. The Associated Press reports that posts like these had drawn the attention of law enforcement officials. Others saw Hasan quite differently. KHAN: He was an ordinary peace-loving American citizen. It never occurred to me that a person like him would go to that extreme.
LEMON: James Jordan can't believe it was the same young man he once knew.
JORDAN: And when I knew him, he was just like me. That's the scary part about it. Somewhere along the way, along those 20 years, something changed him.
LEMON: And we are learning now that Nidal Hasan has been taken off the ventilator and is now breathing on his own. So some say he held extreme anti-war views, was a ticking time bomb. It leaves us to wonder was enough attention paid to other soldiers' concerns about Major Hasan.
Tom Fuentes joins us tonight, and he is the former assistant director of the FBI's official international operations.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight, sir.
The FBI was investigating Nidal Malik Hasan six months ago. So can we say that any of this slipped through the cracks? If so, if it did, how did it?
TOM FUENTES, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS: Well, Don, I don't think we can say that yet. It's unclear exactly how much information the FBI had about him, and whether or not the Web site and the blogging that he did was identified directly back to him and had enough information for the authorities to fully investigate. So that's still unclear at this time.
LEMON: Mr. Fuentes, what are you hearing, if anything, about the initial investigation at this point?
FUENTES: Well, they are in the very tedious phase of getting the records from the Internet Service Providers from the phone companies, from credit card companies, the banks and analyzing those records, trying to determine who he was in contact with, what kind of communications he may have had with others about possible intentions to do this act.
LEMON: Was there a lapse in security, and who is to blame for this, if so?
FUENTES: I don't know how you could call it a lapse of security. I heard reports yesterday where people said that the base should be locked down. Other bases would be locked down. If that was the situation, he would have been locked in the base not out of the base. So someone that's -- this is a small city with 40,000 soldiers and another 20,000 family members and other civilians. So the idea of being able to lock everybody down at all times, I just can't see how that could be possible. LEMON: Do you think that base is across the nation, across America need to step up their security efforts to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again. And if so, how do they do it?
FUENTES: I don't think they can do it. I think if somebody has this kind of action in their head, and they are high-ranking, trusted officer with access to the base like he would have, you're going to have a hard time ever being able to stop something like that.
And if anything, you know, I think the base authorities demonstrated very competent response. We had police officers responding to the scene in three minutes or less and engaging with him directly to prevent greater loss of life. So I think that it's hard to criticize the base, the base management or the base police officers in their actions there. I can't see how much more security they could have than that.
LEMON: Let's talk now about the FBI. As a former assistant director, should the FBI or will the FBI need to do anything differently from this point?
FUENTES: Well, the FBI aggressively investigates cases like this and have been criticized, in fact, in many circles for being too aggressive. That if allegations are made that someone is posing a threat or making threatening comments, whether publicly or on the Internet, that the FBI should allow them to express themselves. And so there is quite a threshold that has to be crossed before the FBI can really initiate a full investigation.
You saw Drew Griffin's piece where you have people standing in front of the 96th street mosque in New York calling the president of the United States a scumbag and Americans murderers for being in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they are freely expressing themselves. And, of course, you know, they may not be operational but who know who becomes inspired hearing those words.
LEMON: And Mr. Fuentes, I want to ask you this because just before I introduced you, we heard that Nidal Hasan is off of a respirator and breathing on his own.
So what's the next step in this investigation, and how soon before we get some information from him about what really happened here?
FUENTES: Well, that will be up to him and the doctors. First of all, if he is going to be on continuing treatment, medication, he has to be in a position where he can mentally, freely waive his rights and agree to talk to investigators. So he's going to have to be very stable medically in order to make a knowing waiver of his rights, and then and it's up to him if he even wants to. So he doesn't have to talk to investigators even at such time as he is medically able to do it.
LEMON: Tom Fuentes, thank you.
FUENTES: You're welcome.
LEMON: When we come back, an Arab-American who served his country, but feels his country betrayed him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was called terrorist. I was called a lot of names. You get to the point, enough is enough. I don't want to live here no more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There are more than two million troops in the U.S. Armed Forces, but only 9,000 or so identify themselves as Muslim. Many tell us they love serving in the military and are treated with the same respect as anybody else. But when the Pentagon's diversity training and equal opportunity rules fail, the consequences can be devastating.
LEMON: Graduation day for Adam Ghatani.
PRIVATE ADAM GHATANI: I was proud to wear a uniform. I felt now I am an American. I'm a real, pure, pure American
LEMON: Adam Ghatani grew up in Morocco. At age 20, he came to the U.S. as a tourist. He fell in love with the country and a woman, and Adam Ghatani became a citizen. He drove a taxi, worked in retail, and eventually opened a small meat market. But in 2007, Adam Ghatani's life took a major turn. The U.S. was sending more troops to Iraq. The Army desperately needed more interpreters.
GHATANI: They were looking for people who speaks Arabic. As soon as I see it I jump right away and did it.
LEMON: Ghatani enlisted at age 40.
GHATANI: Because I love this country, that's number one. Second thing, I want to fight and I want everybody to know there are Muslims who are not terrorists.
LEMON: After basic training, he deployed in the surge only to find he was reviled by many Iraqis.
GHATANI: They hate us. They hate us. As translator, I tell you the truth, they hate us, because to their eyes we are the traitor, we are no good. We help the Americans.
LEMON: Ghatani was assigned to a Special Forces commando team.
GHATANI: We've been attacked with mortars. We've been attacked with rockets. We've been exposed to a lot of things. Yes. Absolutely.
LEMON: There were some in the group whose dedication to American values was inspiring.
GHATANI: I have a lot of respect for them. They were very respectful. They are very, very good people.
LEMON: But before long, Ghatani says he was fighting a second war with other men in his unit.
GHATANI: I was called terrorist. I was called a lot of names. I was made fun of. They assault my prophet Mohammed. They say "F" word. "F" prophet Mohammed. I cannot more say it. And "F" your Allah.
LEMON: Ghatani says the ridicule was relentless. Complete with this pamphlet and his team's office.
GHATANI: They said Private Adam Ghatani was born the son of the monkey, breeded (ph) in the streets of Morocco in the summer of 1942.
LEMON: It continues with a string of cultural insults and anti-gay slurs.
HATANI: A lot of people has this paper, and I look at it and I was shocked. I just have tears in my eyes and I say is that what I - I deserve?
LEMON: Over time, he became despondent and saw no way out.
HATANI: You get to the point enough is enough. I don't want to live here no more. Too many times I was felt to do stupid things. I - I - too many times I was just get a grenade and blow up everybody and blow up myself, and I feel that too many times too. That's bad because I get to the point that is - is I was betrayed by my own - my own people. I was betrayed by - by the people I fought for, the people I won with to fight for the country.
LEMON: An army record describes Hatani's translation work as indispensable. But after seven months, he came home with PTSD, posttraumatic stress disorder. Hatani filed a formal complaint with the Army and the response left him stunned. Numerous soldiers from outside the detachment do not substantiate your claims. No witnesses stated you were singled out for harassment. The only thing that happened to the men in Hatani's unit, they were to attend a refresher course on the Army's Equal Opportunity Policy.
HATANI: As much as I - I want to be a pure American, as much as they push me down or they make me look like I don't belong in this country anymore. What's all I did, they make me feel like, you know what, you outsider.
LEMON: Even so, Hatani has no sympathy for Major Nidal Malik Hasan at Fort Hood, only for his victims.
HATANI: What he did, I disagree with him 100 percent. They shouldn't do what he did. They are innocent people who he killed and he shouldn't do what he did.
LEMON: The Army says one of its strengths is the diversity of its men and women. A spokesman told us that training emphasizes tolerance of diverse backgrounds. Even so, Adam Hatani regrets his decision to enlist. HATANI: If I knew what I knew now, I would never go, no.
LEMON: Today, Hatani says he spends much of his time as a shut-in, unable to work, fighting depression and anxiety. There's a battalion of pills to keep the enemy at bay.
Coming up, a radical Islamic group praising the attack on Fort Hood...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) democracy!
LEMON: ... and preaching hate on the streets of New York.
LEMON: Our other top stories tonight, vigorous debate on Capitol Hill over health care. A Democrat-backed bill is about to come before the full House in a rare Saturday night vote. Passage is so important to the White House that President Obama went to the Hill today to urge Democrats to make it happen.
CNN's Brianna Keilar watching the debate on Capitol Hill. Brianna, where do we stand right now?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, we're in a countdown to what is going to be a very close vote and we're expecting here in the next hour or two. Democrats, as you know, have a big majority in the House, 258 votes and since they are not relying on any Republican support here, they have to hang on to 218 of their Democrats.
Let me tell you, it's looking like a squeaker, looking like there's not going to be many votes to - to spare. But Speaker Pelosi said on the floor a short time ago, Democrats will pass health care reform tonight. We'll be watching to see if that does happen, Don.
LEMON: Thank you, Brianna. We'll continue to follow the debate, and when they get to the vote, we will bring that to you live.
"INSIDE THE FORT HOOD SHOOTINGS" a CNN Special Investigation continues in a moment.
LEMON: Another possible motive for the Fort Hood killings is perhaps the most frightening, that alleged killer Nidal Hasan, an American citizen, could have turned to violence against his comrades because of religion or ideology. And there are people who approve and try to justify such motives.
We turn now to CNN Investigative Unit Correspondent Drew Griffin. And Drew, you know, what you're about to report is - it may surprise and disgust many Americans about faith here.
DREW GRIFFIN, SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: But it's an interesting and honest discussion of some of the battles that law enforcement and the rest of our communities, including the Muslim community, have to deal with. There are people out there actually applauding the actions of this shooter, celebrating this attack.
We should stress we don't know if Nidal Hasan became radicalized Muslim or whether he was even influenced by the language of hate that thrives on the internet, but there are groups in this country that do applaud Osama Bin Laden, want to convert Americans to wage war on their country. One of them is in New York.
Take a look at this. This is the Revolution Muslim website. Hours after the shooting it's congratulating an officer and a gentleman, sending a get well wish. "We love you," to the man accused of murdering these soldiers. Their message is in stark contrast to what mainstream Muslims believe, but they are not hard to find.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice-over): For 20 years the Muslim faithful have been drawn to this gleaming mosque in the heart of New York. It is time for afternoon prayers. American Muslims and Muslims from overseas, as many as 4,000, visit here every day. They come to praise Allah, give thanks and to pray for peace.
Imam Shamsi Ali preaches against terror here, against the violence that right now sweeps many Muslim countries. But just outside the gates to his mosque, radical Muslims are preaching a very different view.
GRIFFIN (on camera): How big a threat are these people who come here, who maybe here today and trying to reach your congregation?
IMAM SHAMSI ALI, MUSLIM PREACHER: Islam is about peace. Islam is about moderation. Islam is about friendship. Islam opposes any kind of hatred against anybody.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): These are the brothers of Revolution Muslim.
YOUNES ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, "REVOLUTION MUSLIM": We tell you Muslims to rise up.
GRIFFIN: They are recruiting just outside New York's 96th Street mosque.
MOHAMMED: The Koran commands us to disavow and make hatred and enmity between democracy, between nationalism, between secularism and that you see Obama as the enemy he really is, that you see the United States as the enemy it really is.
GRIFFIN: Yousef Al Khattab, a Jew who lived in Israel and abruptly converted to Islam, and Younes Abdullah Mohammed, also a convert, both born and raised in the United States, a country whose way of life they say they hate. And if you are not a Muslim, they count you as a disbeliever. Their mission, to terrorize you.
MOHAMMED: We're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers and this is a religion, like I said...
GRIFFIN (on camera): You're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers? MOHAMMED: And the Koran says very clearly in the Arabic language, (SPEAKING IN ARABIC). This means terrorize them. It's a command from Allah.
GRIFFIN: So you're commanded...
MOHAMMED: It says terrorize them with...
GRIFFIN: ... to terrorize anybody who doesn't believe.
MOHAMMED: It doesn't mean - you define terrorism as going and killing an innocent civilian. That's what you're...
GRIFFIN: How do you...?
MOHAMMED: I define terrorism as making them fearful so that they think twice before they go rape your mother or kill your brother or go into your land and try to steal your resources.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): It is that Jihadist version of Islam which allows them to conclude the killing of American soldiers overseas is justified, that the attack on 9/11 was also justified and that an attack on almost any American is justified.
MOHAMMED: Americans will always be a target and those units will (ph) - until America changes its nature in the international arena.
GRIFFIN: In separate and disturbing interviews, both look to one man as the true living model of Islam - Osama Bin Laden.
YOUSEF AL KHATTAB, "REVOLUTION MUSLIM": I love Osama Bin Laden. I will love him - I love him, like I - I can't begin to tell you because I haven't seen that he's really done anything wrong from the Shariah. I love him like more than - more than I love myself.
GRIFFIN: What they want is US forces to be defeated, for a Muslim holy land stretching from China to Rome. And, yes, they yearn for the day Israel will vanish.
GRIFFIN (on camera): So you would like Israel to be bombed, Jews to...
KHATTAB: I - well, I think that's - do you think that's a rational comeback to what I'm...
GRIFFIN: I'm asking you.
KHATTAB: I would like to see Israel wiped off the map. I would like to see a mushroom cloud over it. But, before that, I'd like to seem the people guided and I'd like them to go back to their original countries, where they're from.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): They may seem crazy to you, but you are not their target audience. The FBI has assigned agents to watch them, to monitor their website and, perhaps more importantly, watch those who are viewing and listening, like Bryant Neil Vinas, a young New Yorker who has pled guilty in a plot to blow up the Long Island Railroad. He met with and admired Khattab.
KHATTAB: I just knew that he was a good Muslim brother and that was it.
GRIFFIN: Khattab claims friendship with Tarek Mehanna and Daniel Maldonado. Maldonado arrested and pled guilty in Texas to receiving military training with Somali terrorists. Mehanna was just indicted in Boston, conspiring to provide material support to terrorists.
The Revolution Muslim partners say they do not fight themselves and do not incite others to fight. But make no mistake, they want you to become a Muslim. They want Americans to die.
KHATTAB: I would not do it myself. That's what I said. Is Obama a murderer, a tyrant, a scumbag? Absolutely, he is. If they killed him, would I shed a tear? Absolutely, I would not. Would I say - would I incite his murder? That not what we - we don't preach that.
GRIFFIN: The mosques have tried to prevent that kind of hatred from being preached by calling police, but there is little police or even the FBI can do to stop these radicalizers. They are protects by legal rights given in a country they detest.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GRIFFIN: And Don, law enforcement sources that we've talked to say they know their constitutional rights. They walk right up to that line of protection under the free speech amendment and they stop short of crossing it and all law enforcement can do is watch.
LEMON: Yes. And as he said, it's a right that's guaranteed here and that is sort of the problem, the issue that comes with this. Drew Griffin, we appreciate it. Thank you so much for that fascinating report.
You know, it is true, he had never rolled through a hostile city, fearing IEDs with every bump, picked up body parts after a blast or shocked and awed a city full of people, but Nidal Hasan knew well the trauma of war. Psychiatrists and PTSD, next.
LEMON: So you would hope that mental health professionals would be mentally healthy themselves, but like soldiers, military psychiatrists are not supermen and the horrors they hear can take a serious toll.
So joining us tonight from New York is clinical psychologist Dr. Dale Archer. Thank you, sir, for joining us. Did Nidal Hasan suffer from PTSD even though he had not gone off to war? Is that possible?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: No. It's really not possible. You have to understand that PTSD has to been an event that you experience, a very traumatic event. And actually, there is evidence that brain chemistry changes during this event in certain individuals where it's imprinted indelibly forever and there's an emotion associated with this which triggers the condition. You cannot get PTSD from reading a book or from hearing a story, even repeated stories over and over.
LEMON: So we've been hearing, I think it's called second tier PTSD. Then if that - if he couldn't get PTSD from not going to war, then how did he get to this point?
ARCHER: Well, you know, second-tier PTSD is controversial and my personal view here is that he was suffering from depression and I think it'd been there for quite a while because he had patient complaints against him. He had been written up. He had been assigned to therapy and then he'd been transferred out of Walter Reed.
The big issue I have here is where were the superiors? Where were the people that were overseeing the work he did? And how do you take an individual who was not doing well and put them in the stressful environment of counseling soldiers with PTSD? That is a big, big problem and I worry about the soldiers that received help from him and whether they actually got the best help that they could have.
LEMON: All right. So you say depression, not PTSD. There are some who say that maybe he was part of some sort of cell or that this was some sort of terrorist activity. Because you think he suffered from depression, and I would imagine some degree of his mental health obviously was not in balance, that he was susceptible to some sort of radicalism or - or teachings, doctor?
ARCHER: Well, typically when you have a depressed individual, they feel hopeless. They feel miserable. Their mind is racing, their heart is pounding. They feel anxious. They feel exhausted yet they can't sleep. And they reach a point where they say if I have to feel this way for the rest of my life, I'd be better off dead.
Now, in this particular case, I think he probably did have thoughts of suicide at one point but then as things progressed I think he took this anger and focused it on the army, on the government, on the soldiers that teased him and a plan began to form and I think at that point he latched on to the radical version of Islam to justify what he then did.
LEMON: OK. So listen, you know, we - and this is just what we're hearing from neighbors, from people who were there. Law enforcement has come out now and says we have to wait and see until we can - wait until the investigation is complete to figure out exactly then what is going on. And here is what I have to say. We can go through everything about, you know, about psychiatry and all of this mental health, sometimes people just snap, doctor.
ARCHER: Absolutely. They do just snap. But we have a psychiatric diagnosis for that, and usually when they snap it is either in a depressed fashion or a psychotic fashion. There's no evidence here that he was psychotic, but based on the long-term poor performance by this individual I just suspect that there was something going on with him. And of course, everyone has a stress threshold. I think for him when he got the deployment orders, that - that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
LEMON: OK. Having worked with patients who are depressed, worked with patients who have PTSD - we're hearing that he has - he is off the ventilator tonight. How do patients like this usually respond to law enforcement? Are they cooperative in these cases?
ARCHER: Well, I think in this particular case he probably is going to be cooperative because I think that in his mind what he did was an honorable thing. So I think he will open up and talk about it.
LEMON: Clinical psychiatrist Dr. Dale Archer. Thank you, sir.
ARCHER: Thank you.
LEMON: When we return, remembering the fallen of Fort Hood.
LEMON: Well, we know deployments are a fact of life, so military families are used to goodbyes. But the families of the Fort Hood shooting victims never could have imagined their loved ones leaving - not this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): They were husbands and sons, daughters, a mother to be - the fallen of Fort Hood. Thirteen lives lost, their loved ones left only to grieve and wonder why.
SHERYL PEARSON, FORT HOOD VICTIM'S MOTHER: This was just amazing to me. It still doesn't seem real to me. I don't - I don't know. I'm still wondering what happened.
LEMON: Sheryl Pearson was stunned by her son Michael's death. The private first class from Bolingbrook, Illinois, was just 22. He left a nowhere job to join the military and see the world.
PEARSON: He wanted to serve his country. He wanted to get an education. He wanted to travel and he just wanted to do something with his life.
LEMON: Specialist Jason Dean Hunt answered the call of duty fresh out of high school. He had survived a stint in Iraq. He didn't survive the rampage at Fort Hood. At the time of his death, Hunt had only been married for two months. His sister Leila Willingham recalled Hunt as loving and selfless.
LEILA WILLINGHAM, FORT HOOD VICTIM'S SISTER: He's always been a hero even before this and I think - I think he's even more so just because he wasn't overseas, killed in combat. I think he was - I think he did jump in front of a bullet for somebody.
LEMON: Juan Velez was proud when his daughter Francheska enlisted in the Army. He was especially proud of her service in Iraq, although it did cause him many sleepless nights.
JUAN VELEZ, FORT HOOD VICTIM'S FATHER: Because she was going over there, so, you know, it's war. You know, many things can happen, you know. So I was very scared. LEMON: That's why Velez was relieved when his daughter returned to the US. She was pregnant and she was coming home to Chicago early. He thought the worry was finally behind him until a lieutenant colonel came to break the news. Francheska was dead.
VELEZ: For me, it was like a slap in my face because I supported my - I supported my daughter to join the Army. I supported her to go to Iraq, fight for her country, for our freedom and I don't understand is that she didn't die in Iraq. She got back home safe and she died in the base by a hand of a - supposedly a soldier. For me, he wasn't a soldier.
LEMON: Francheska Velez, Jason Dean Hunt and Michael Pearson - three of 13 men and women thrust into harm's way at home.