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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Encore: Toxic Secrets and Celebrity Addiction
Aired November 27, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, toxic secrets and celebrity addiction, a special presentation of ISSUES. We`re shining the spotlight on our addict nation. Hooked on drugs, alcohol, power, and even babies.
First, we`ll go inside the horrifying deaths of Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith. Did their tragic use of prescription drugs cost them their lives? One was ruled an accidental death, the other a homicide, but they were both found with a deadly cocktail of prescription drugs in their system. Was there anything anyone could have done to prevent these deaths? Or were these superstars determined to do it their way?
Addicted to fame. Nadya Suleman and Jon Gosselin can`t seem to get enough attention. Jon has eight kids, Nadya 14, but every time we see them, it seems they`re either angling for a new reality show or airing their dirty laundry. Are these people victims of the paparazzi or addicted to publicity?
A special presentation of ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an avalanche of jaw-dropping celebrity addiction scandals.
2009, shocking and tragic details unraveled before our eyes. We witnessed the downfall and even the death of the rich, famous and infamous. No story more shocking than Michael Jackson`s sudden death at age 50, and none more scandalous. Michael Jackson was an addict and guess what? He told us so more than 17 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, POP STAR: I remain out of the country undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication. This medication was initially prescribed to soothe the excruciating pain that I was suffering after recent reconstructive surgery on my scalp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Among the most unforgettable images, home video of the ambulance call to Michael Jackson`s rented mansion on July 25, 2009. Just the day before, Jackson appeared fine. In fact, he was rehearsing for his final comeback tour. But was he healthy enough to handle the physically grueling workouts or was he too emaciated and frail? And what role did addiction play? We may never get all the answers.
We do know that the coroner ruled his death a homicide. The cause: acute Propofol intoxication. A deadly dose of a powerful surgical knockout drug, plus a cocktail of other sedatives were found in his system.
But ultimately, who is to blame for bringing on Jackson`s untimely death? Law enforcement claims Michael`s personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, admitted he gave Jackson that toxic cocktail, but what about Jackson`s handlers, his family, his friends, and the array of other doctors who cared for him? Did they enable a decades-long addiction to painkillers and sedatives? We will try to get to the bottom of the King of Pop`s downward spiral in our first big issue of the hour, celebrity addict enablers.
Meantime, M.J. is not the only fallen star on tonight`s addiction special. Anna Nicole Smith died of, quote, "acute combined drug intoxication." Her companion/lawyer and two doctors charged with conspiring to furnish Anna, a known addict, with prescriptions.
And then, there`s David Hasselhoff from the red carpet to the floor of his Las Vegas home. In 2007, he was videotaped in an apparent drunken stupor by his own teenaged daughter. It seemed the whole world watched as the Hoff battled the bottle.
But addictions come in many forms: alcohol, drugs, fame, sex. Over the next hour, we will investigate the most jaw-dropping celebrity addiction scandals of 2009.
Straight out to my fabulous, and I mean fabulous, expert panel: Mark Eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Firpo Carr, former Jackson family spokesperson and Jackson family friend; Ken Sealy, interventionist and author of "Face It and Fix It"; Amy Palmer, senior editor of "InTouch Weekly"; and Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist.
Dr. Archer, was Michael Jackson ultimately cornered by an untimely combination of -- let`s see -- addiction, insomnia and pressures to perform, to sing and dance like a young pop star at the age of 50?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think you can put all those into the equation, Jane. But I really think for him, the addiction was absolutely primary.
And in the video clip you showed, he hit the nail on the head. He was a narcotic painkiller addict. These are the most addictive drugs on the planet. And his story is so typical. He started out needing the med, but then he ended up needing the high more than he needed the pain relief. And that started a downward spiral, which ultimately led to his death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our first big issue, celebrity addict enablers. Michael Jackson reportedly had an abundance of them. But these people were not apparently among them. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URI GELLER, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I screamed at him, and I used the words, "Michael, if you continue this, you will die."
CHERILYN LEE, NURSE WHO CLAIMS SHE TREATED JACKSON: He said, "Can you find me a doctor? I don`t care how much money they want. I don`t care what it is they want. I want this drug."
I said, "Michael, this is something serious. You don`t want to take this. You just don`t want to take this."
DEEPAK CHOPRA, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I said, "What the heck do you want a narcotic prescription for?" And then suddenly dawned on me that he was already taking these and that he had probably a number of doctors who were giving him these prescriptions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael, of course, had the financial means to get what he wanted. CNN`s Dr. Sanjay Gupta reported that during a European tour, Michael traveled with his own mini clinic, complete with an I.V. drip and two physicians, one of whom was an anesthesiologist.
Amy Palmer, the question: when celebrities addicts are determined to get drugs, do they have the money, the power, the clout to get them, no matter what? Is it almost impossible to say no to a celebrity addict?
AMY PALMER, SENIOR EDITOR, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": You better believe it. Michael Jackson was a money-making machine.
And let me tell you something. The people around him, the people who enabled him to have this addiction and to allow it to continue knew that. Michael Jackson paid their salaries, so what are they going to say to him, "No, I can`t do it"? They would have been gone, and Michael Jackson would have found someone else to get him those drugs.
Now, I got to tell you something. I went to see Michael Jackson, the movie, "This is It," and I was totally blown away. After hearing all the talk of Michael Jackson weak and feeble, addicted, in a wheelchair, I literally almost fell off my chair. He demonstrated extraordinary coordination, amazing singing and dancing skills, unbelievable endurance.
Firpo Carr, you`re the family friend. How is it possible that this incredible performance could have been given by a man so weak and on drugs? This just doesn`t jive with the concept of an out-of-it addict. You and I were both at the Jackson trial together. We saw Jackson many times, looking like he was in a fog, let`s face it. So how can you explain these two totally opposite Michael Jacksons?
FIRPO CARR, FRIEND OF JACKSONS: Well, if you ask Joe Jackson, he had a body double in the movie, if you ask him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No way.
CARR: I`m not saying that -- I`m not saying that that is the case, but if you ask Joe Jackson, that`s what he would say.
Now, here`s what I would say about that. First of all, I think we should speak to Michael`s character. He became dependent on drugs because of pain. He did not use it recreationally prior to that. In fact, he didn`t take drugs at all.
So to put him in the class of an addict, someone who uses is -- uses it recreationally, and who uses it just to get high for the feeling I think would be unfair, because that would speak to his character.
His character is such that he is a man who depends on his spirituality. He was a vegetarian for the most part. He was a healthy person.
Now, was he strong enough to do all of those shows? Absolutely not. Not 50. If you saw that show, if you saw that -- I did not see it, I`m boycotting it. I`m not saying anyone else should, but I`m boycotting...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You should see it because I saw it, and I got to tell you -- I don`t know who else saw it. I`m sure Amy Palmer. Did you see it?
PALMER: Yes, I did. I saw it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s no way that that was a body double. No way.
CARR: Do you think that -- do you think that he could do that 50 of times? Do you think he could do 50 of those?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I watched it with my eye to see if it was a body double, because his dad had already made that claim. And you`re seeing his face and you`re seeing him dancing with his face, with the dancers in the background. He`s doing moves that would be hard for a 15-year-old to do, Amy Palmer.
PALMER: Yes. I mean, Michael Jackson in this movie is at the top of his game. It really shows why he is the superstar, why he is the King of Pop. And that`s why it`s so alarming that Michael Jackson needed drugs to get through that rehearsal or those shows.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane -- Jane...
ARCHER: Jane, it`s not alarming that he needed drugs, and his character had nothing to do with it. This is how individuals get hooked on these drugs. They do have real pain. But they end up with a real addiction because the high and the euphoria is something they crave more than the pain relief.
EIGLARSH: Jane, let me jump in here, Jane. Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, hold on.
EIGLARSH: Let me jump in here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jump in.
EIGLARSH: Let me first -- let me say this. First of all, a lot of the addicts start off innocently enough, using opiates. One of the problems with using opiates, I found from my clients and from my personal stories I`ve seen, the opiates then create pain in the body. It`s such an evil drug that then they need the opiates for pain. The opiates are actually causing a lot of that pain.
And it doesn`t mean that they`re lying down in the gutter. What`s great about your show is you`re letting the world know that there are functioning addicts out there. They can walk around. They can talk. They can dance, but they`re still addicts, which means they`re powerless to control their addiction. They need help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me rewind to 1984. That was the pivotal day in Michael Jackson`s life, when there was this horrific accident during a commercial shoot for Pepsi. Just a caution, this video from "Us Weekly" is graphic.
Now, without a doubt, the pain must have been unimaginable. With 20/20 hindsight, it`s believed that this first triggered his addiction. Take a look at this. Watch very closely. There he is dancing. Poof, the explosion and then you see his hair is on fire, literally, and he keeps dancing. That`s what`s so amazing about it.
But can`t this be a teachable moment, Ken Sealy? I mean, what are the first signs that somebody`s getting hooked on pain meds after the legitimate need to use them for medical reasons has come and gone?
KEN SEALY, INTERVENTIONIST: This is what I see all the time, Jane, is what happens is trauma happens like this, and then all of a sudden, they stop getting their medication, because it`s not necessary, so they start doctor shopping. They start looking. And all the addict behaviors is happening.
And I think with some of your other guests, that they`re hearing that there`s a judgment on addiction. There`s no judgment. Addiction is not prejudiced. It hits all walks of life.
What we need to get through to people is that you have to take action. As you`ve shown at the beginning of your show, people have seen all these red flags throughout his life but we don`t take action. You have to get a professional involved. You have to take the action to help save their lives, because you don`t have that day. You don`t have the privilege of the day of when they`re going to die. He looked great.
CARR: Family and friends have done that. Family and friends have tried to help him, sir. And to make that presupposition that they did not, I think, is reckless. The family tried to help him, as I`ve mentioned many times.
SEALY: The question is to what extent?
CARR: Randy even went down to Mexico. I beg your pardon?
EIGLARSH: The question is -- the question is to what extent. When you`re dealing with life or death...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. One at a time.
CARR: Let me answer that question.
EIGLARSH: When you`re dealing with life or death and intervention is necessary. Granted, the person won`t get help unless they want it. But those are still back and kind of held back, they now have to deal with it.
CARR: Right. But you don`t know that that`s the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Firpo, isn`t it true that they tried to do interventions and he locked them out?
CARR: Thank you. Absolutely. They`ve tried numerous times. They`ve had numerous family meetings, trying to help him, and if he said, "No, I don`t want your help," please believe me, as an adult, he can`t -- they cannot just bum rush him and say, "You`re going to get it anyway, whether you like it or not."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
CARR: So to judge...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to move on.
EIGLARSH: I disagree with that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to move on -- because OK. Let me move on. Because we want to cover another major case, and that is the case of Anna Nicole Smith.
Two years after she died, Anna Nicole Smith`s tragic downward spiral played out in the legal system. Here she is in a very disturbing video shot just six months before she died. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, MODEL: Other part?
I`m good. I can`t. I`m not.
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE`S LAWYER/COMPANION: Because of your baby?
SMITH: My baby`s over there sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your other...
STERN: Your baby down there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your baby down here.
STERN: That one.
SMITH: I think I just had a little gas.
STERN: Say it again.
SMITH: I think I`m just -- I think I`m having some gas trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So sad. Six months later, she was dead. The medical examiner said her death was due to, quote, "combined drug intoxication." In addition to a lethal dose of the powerful sleep drug chloral hydrate, there were at least eight other drugs in her system, Ken Sealy, sedatives, muscle relaxants, anti-anxiety meds, none of them illegal.
Prescription drug abuse is a massive, massive problem in this country, is it not, Ken Sealy?
SEALY: Absolutely. It`s one of the leading addictions in this country right now, prescription meds. So many people are dying from it.
And here, once again, we`ve seen the red flags. Not only did the family and friends, but all of us seen the red flags six months in that video. I`m so glad you showed that. And yet nobody took action on helping her.
And I`m not saying that the family didn`t try. I`m saying that you have to continue to try and don`t stop trying, period, until you get through.
CARR: How do you know...
SEALY: There is a way to get through.
CARR: How do you know that didn`t happen?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I will say this. I will say this. When an addict doesn`t want to get sober, and I`ve seen it myself, no matter what you do, interventions and everything, if they do not want to get sober, it is impossible to take them there.
CARR: Thank you.
EIGLARSH: That`s correct, Jane, but...
EIGLARSH: Then the family and friends` behavior needs to change, and the addict needs to know, "We will no longer enable you." And again, the difference between enabling and helping is enabling is you`re doing something for someone that they could and should be doing on their own. Helping is they can`t do it.
CARR: That`s a presupposition that they`re enabling them. I mean, how can you say that? Here`s what I say about character.
EIGLARSH: Look at Howard Stern. Look at Howard Stern.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa. Let`s leave Howard Stern out of it.
CARR: Let me finish.
EIGLARSH: OK, Howard K. Stern.
CARR: As far -- as far as the character of the person is concerned and the motivation, just think of this real quick illustration. And that is, you hear that a young teenager, gang banger, his pants down below his - - his you know what. And guess what? He pushes an old lady down the middle of the street. Is it really that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. I know we could talk about this all night, and we are.
CARR: What is the motivation?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Coming up, we`re shining the spotlight on fame addiction. Every time you turn on the TV, there they are, Jon Gosselin and the Octomom. Are these two addicted to fame?
But first, you know, this guy just by looking at him, wait until you hear what radio talk show host and former child star, Danny Bonaduce, has to say about using and abusing booze, next.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former "Bay Watch" hunk David Hasselhoff took a hard fall from Grace in 2007 when videotape of him in an apparent drunken stupor went public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dad, you need to promise me you`re not going to get alcohol tonight, OK?
DAVID HASSELHOFF, ACTOR: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Promise me you`re not going to get alcohol tonight. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because if you get alcohol tonight, you`re fired from your show tomorrow, and the doctor`s coming over here in the morning to check your alcohol level. And if you have any alcohol in your system, you`re going to be fired from the show. Tomorrow. You hear me? No alcohol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That video shot by his teenaged daughter, reportedly in an effort to help her dad sober up for good.
Hasselhoff has been in and out of rehab for years. Sadly, he recently compared himself to Amy Winehouse.
My next guest knows all too well the roller coaster ride of addiction to alcohol and rehab, Danny Bonaduce.
Thanks for joining us. You grew up as a child star on "The Partridge Family," currently a talk show host on 94.1, WYSP in Philadelphia.
Danny, David Hasselhoff has acknowledged his long-running battle with booze. Do you relate? And what`s going on with you in that department right now?
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I relate in the sense that, of course, I`ve battled getting on and off the wagon. It`s just that I am 5`6", and when I fall of the wagon, nobody really notices. When David Hasselhoff is 6`8" tall, it takes him 45 minutes to actually fall off a wagon. It makes a thunderous bang, and we all turn and look what happened. So he`s just a more interesting character.
But watching David Hasselhoff continually fall off the wagon has stopped being appealing to me and just become embarrassing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, obviously, when you get sober, you would think your aim is to stay sober, and then when you no longer are sober, you`ve slipped. But I was sort of shocked to hear recently that you say you have begun drinking again, because you were talking about your sobriety at one point. What went on there?
BONADUCE: At one point, I was sober. At this current point, I`m sober. Through no fault of my own, by the way. I was just running late.
The fact of the matter is, and I think you`ll know this quote very well, there`s two schools of thought in psychology and psychiatry. There`s Einstein, there`s Freud and then there`s Jung. And Carl Jung said that the definition of insanity is continuing the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Well, if every time I fell off the wagon, you take that literally, I would fall off the wagon once and it would hurt my head. And I would fall off the wagon again, and it would hurt. And I`d fall off the wagon again. I just decided why would I ever get on the wagon again?
BONADUCE: Some people can ride it; some people cannot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, that`s -- that`s very dangerous, though, Danny, because it`s a fatal disease.
BONADUCE: I don`t necessarily adhere to that school of thought.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a progressive disease.
BONADUCE: I don`t necessarily agree with you, Jane. I know that you believe that you suffer from a deadly disease. But at the height of my fame and popularity -- you called me an ex-child star -- I used to, in exchange for my incredible lack of talent, I would do tours of children`s hospitals. And when you`ve seen as many 8 year olds dying of cancer as I have, that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know if that relates to what we`re talking about.
BONADUCE: We`re talking about a deadly disease.
BONADUCE: You want to tell that 8-year-old with no hair that you`ve got the same problems they do?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, Danny, we`re going to come back to you. This is interesting stuff. Hang in there.
We`re switching gears from drug addiction to fame addiction. Nadya Suleman and Jon Gosselin cannot stay away from the cameras. So are they just desperate for attention? Or are they actually addicted to fame?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back to our special on celebrity scandal and addiction. Has infamous father of eight, Jon Gosselin, been on a fame binge? The last several months, he`s paraded around with his young girlfriend as his nasty divorce from Kate plays out in the tabloids. Some feel he is addicted to celebrity and the attention it brings, even when it`s negative attention.
Exhibit A, he was more than willing to go on TV and get a well- deserved smack-down from HLN`s own Nancy Grace. Here they are, facing off on "The Insider."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: You talk the talk, but you don`t walk the walk. With one 22-year-old after the next, while she`s at home with the children, and say you want to work it out.
JON GOSSELIN, REALITY TV STAR: I know I was passive. I know I was an avoider.
GRACE: Why is it always about you? Why are we talking about you? She asked you about your children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he`s an important part of the children.
GRACE: Can he even speak without you piping in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Way to go, Nancy. Oh, boy.
The days of "Jon and Kate Plus 8" are over, and so is their marriage. So what will Jon do once the cameras are gone? Will he do everything he can to stay in the spotlight?
I want to welcome back my fantastic panel. Let`s start with Amy Palmer, senior editor, "InTouch Weekly." You deal with so many celebrities. Is fame a real addiction, do you think?
PALMER: Yes, I actually think it is a real addiction, and Jon Gosselin is the perfect example. The guy cannot make a move without calling the press to come there with cameras. It`s unbelievable.
I mean, he says that he wants to redeem himself and become a better person and father, yet he has to do that in the public eye. He invited cameras to a conference with Rabbi Shmuley on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and charged people to come in and hear him say, "I want to be better. Listen, I didn`t ask for this." It`s absolutely insanity, Jane. So he is perfect -- yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon actually was recently busted trying to get what you might call a hit of attention. Here he is with paparazzi, reading them his e-mails from his estranged wife. Got to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOSSELIN: I just got an e-mail from Kate saying she doesn`t want to see me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says she doesn`t want to see you? May we see it?
GOSSELIN: Hold on one second. She wants to change custody. "I would appreciate if you would pick them up at the bus stop tomorrow at 4 and stay until 6." That`s ridiculous. I`m going to stay longer than that. I don`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was supposed to be a joint day because it`s a birthday?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was for all...
GOSSELIN: All holidays, birthdays, whatever, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you end up dealing with this when (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
GOSSELIN: Doesn`t matter. It`s joint share. It`s a signed-off day. I can stay as long as I want, and I will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, can fame addiction be as dangerous, even deadly, as drug addiction?
ARCHER: Absolutely. And we know now that all addictions are really linked, Jane, through a brain chemical called dopamine. And it`s a disregulation in the system. It doesn`t matter whether it`s alcohol, drugs, Internet, video games, shopping, sex or fame.
And of course, fame also comprises money and power. And you lump it all together and you have a classic case in Jon Gosselin of a narcissistic personality disorder. Every bit as deadly as, say, a Bernie Madoff.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, the thing is that when you take away the fame, if you don`t have a valid identity, independent of the fame, underneath that, that`s when you`re really in trouble, because you say, "Who am I? Why am I here?"
Coming up, when the mother of six gave birth to octuplets, she gained international attention. Is Octomom Nadya Suleman bonkers for babies, or is she addicted to them?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Toxic secrets and celebrity addiction: a special presentation of ISSUES. We`re shining the spotlight on our addict nation; hooked on drugs, alcohol, power, and even babies.
We`ll investigate Mackenzie Phillips` shocking claims that she had consensual sex with her famous father for ten years. Phillips battled drugs and admitted trying cocaine for the very first time when she was just 11 years old.
We`ll look at the impact of drugs, alcohol, addiction.
Welcome back to our special on celebrity scandal and addiction.
Can you be addicted to having babies? Well, look at octo-mom, Nadya Suleman. The pseudo-celebrity appears obsessed with procreating as well as the fame that comes with it. The birth of her octuplets gave her a whopping total of 14 kids.
She shows all the hallmarks of addiction. Bingeing, going overboard, then that classic addict`s remorse. Don`t believe me? Check out this clip from RadarOnline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: I still miss it. I screwed up my life; I screwed up my kids` life. I have to put on this strong facade and I have to pretend like I don`t regret it. I can`t regret it now because I love them, they`re here. What was I thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very, very good question. Every one of her 14 kids was conceived through fertility treatments, so no surprise, they live in a completely chaotic home.
Listen to the utter calamity captured on Fox`s Octo-mom special.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CLIP OF NADYA SULEMAN`S 14 CHILDREN)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. I`m getting dizzy just looking at that.
Here`s my big issue. Could somebody be addicted to having babies and if the answer is yes, what can they do about it?
Ken, what`s your take on that? We say addiction can apply to any substance, if you`re using it for the wrong reasons. Ever heard of addiction to procreating?
KEN SEELEY, INTERVENTIONIST: You just showed it, Jane. You showed how she was remorseful after doing the act and that`s exactly what addicts do. They get remorseful after the fact.
And the important part that you`re showing here today is that, you know, addictions take all kinds of forms. All addictions are similar with the behaviors of the addict. They`re self-centered, self-motivated and the key is that they get treatment for them.
I know some of the top leading treatment facilities right now, what they`re doing when somebody checks into treatment, they`re doing an assessment on these cross-addictions to see if there`s anything else that they`re addicted to so they can treat that at the time after they treat their alcoholism, their drug addiction, they could treat their fame addiction, their work addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or their food addiction; that`s another big one in this country...
SEELEY: Food addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: With obesity threatening to surpass smoking as the nation`s number one preventable killer.
It doesn`t really matter what substance you`re using. It`s that you`re using a substance for the wrong reasons in order to escape painful feelings in order to stuff painful feelings.
Is octo-mom trying to undo some past trauma by having all these babies? She says she always hated being an only child and had a difficult relationship with her mom. They aired some of their dirty laundry on RadarOnline. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF NADYA SULEMAN: I felt sorry for them.
N. SULEMAN: Because they`re healthy, I`m thriving?
A. SULEMAN: No. Because there are so many and how are you going to be able to provide for them? Fourteen, think about it, Nadya. 14.
N. SULEMAN: I have to let go of my need to control everything and I have to accept the help that`s been offered.
A. SULEMAN: I hope you`ll get help. I really hope so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark Eiglarsh, do you think having a ton of babies is the way to cope with a tough childhood? Isn`t that the kind of problem you work out with a therapist?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is so sad. I have three children. I find it difficult to give them the quality time that each one needs.
We`re not just talking about food. We`re not just talking about shelter. We`re talking about exchange of ideas, comfort, building self- esteem; I don`t know that it`s possible for the best parent to do that with 14 kids. Forget about her, a procreating bunny of, you know, with whacky intentions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I got to turn to another celebrity scandal. Married TV sports anchor Steve Phillips, an admitted sex addict. After "The New York Post" broke the story of his affair with a 22-year-old production assistant at ESPN, Phillips came clean. He was fired by the network and promptly checked himself into rehab for sex addiction.
Listen to Brooke Hundley, the young production assistant and paramour on ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE HUNDLEY, HAD AFFAIR WITH MARRIED SPORTS ANCHOR: I was in a situation where I felt like if I didn`t do what was asked of me, then everything I had worked for, for the past six years, everything I had done to establish myself as a successful media professional, could be gone like that.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, isn`t this a classic example of how an addiction really takes down other people around you? I mean, this has become a mess, his wife`s divorcing him, he`s got kids who have been impacted by this. This young woman came under criticism for her actions as a result of this affair.
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Yes. No doubt about it, Jane.
And we have to look at his history. This is not the first time that he had this type of involvement. I mean, he was actually sued for sexual harassment when he was general manager of the Mets. So this has followed him but I cannot give Brooke Hundley a pass on this, either, because there were e-mail messages that she had written stating that she was going to get to the top no matter what. So I think they both got entangled in his addiction, but I think that there`s equal blame to go around in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken Seeley, what is sex addiction? You know, it`s a natural human craving to have intimate relations with somebody else, but when does it cross the line into addictive behavior?
SEELEY: Well, it`s just like food addiction. It`s a natural craving that we have, but yet you take it and you cross that line. You know, you do things that are going to cause the aftermath that we`re seeing in this situation.
We see the things with the eating disorders, either the anorexia or bulimia, and the aftermath, the drug addiction, it`s all the same thing. It`s when the addict crosses that line and they cross the line of addiction, it becomes fatal and people die from this.
The aftermath is fatal, period. I don`t care what addiction it is, because if it`s gambling, the number one with gambling addiction is suicide, because of the way they feel after the fact.
Well, Amy Palmer, it`s especially complicated with a celebrity, because we know this in Hollywood with movie stars, there are people constantly approaching them trying to have sex, which is not a problem that most of us face.
AMY PALMER, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, that`s true. When you`re in the spotlight, you`re going to have more opportunity, which is why it`s so important when you become famous, that you have to be centered in your core and know who you are and understand boundaries.
It`s really the responsibility of the celebrity to say no, I am the person who`s responsible for my life and you can`t enter it because I know what can happen. And unfortunately, that doesn`t happen all the time, especially when celebrities are so narcissistic and they crave attention, which is why they enter the spotlight in the first place.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. In other words, you can be in places that make you vulnerable to an addiction if you`re a food addict, if you`re in a fast food joint, if you`re a movie star hanging out with a bunch of young ladies at a club, those are entering dangerous territory, slippery slope.
Up next, Mackenzie Phillips` shocking admission that for ten years, she had consensual sex, she says, with her famous father. Phillips battled drugs and admitted trying cocaine for the first time when she was just 11 years old.
We will look at the effects of all those drugs.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sickening secrets revealed in an explosive tell-all written by former TV star, Mackenzie Phillips. She says she had sex with her own father, rock legend John Phillips.
In her memoir, "One Day at a Time" Mackenzie writes her dad pulled her in a frightening world of drugs and forbidden sex at 19. She says she woke up from a drug-induced haze to find herself having sex with her dad. Mackenzie exposed all her dark secrets to the public on Oprah.
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MACKENZIE PHILLIPS DAUGHTER OF SINGER JOHN PHILLIPS: I woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. Your father is supposed to protect you. Your father is supposed to protect you, not (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The book`s title, "High on Arrival" is based on a song John wrote and dedicated to Mackenzie. The chilling lyrics, "She`s just 14, there isn`t much she hasn`t seen. She`s always too high on arrival."
As her drug addiction spiraled out of control, Mackenzie says the relationship became consensual. Mackenzie Phillips has been in and out of rehab and jail. Did her father`s alleged abuse fuel her drug use?
Joining me tonight: a very special guest, Jodie Sweetin, former star of the hit TV show "Full House" and proud recovering addict.
Jodie, there are those who are saying ah-ha, now we know why Mackenzie felt so compelled to do drugs, to escape the pain of this alleged incest. What`s your take on that? Do you think addiction feeds off emotional pain and emotional distress?
JODIE SWEETIN, FORMER STAR, "FULL HOUSE": You know, I think it does. I think it`s a really vicious cycle. I know for myself, you know, you get into this habit of, you know, doing things that don`t exactly help your self-esteem. Then in trying to stop feeling, you know, you get high and then you get high and you feel bad about getting high. And so you go into this depression.
And then to try and make yourself not feel anything about it, you continue doing the drugs and it sort of repeats itself and repeats itself until you can really stop any of that behavior and really deal with the underlying feelings and emotions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My big issue tonight, drug cred. Does a history of drug abuse hurt your credibility?
Some of Mackenzie`s show biz family members say you cannot trust an addict, period, end of story. Mackenzie says hey, they`re in denial.
Mackenzie tells Oprah it really happened with her dad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: I know for a fact that I am the only daughter that this happened to. And I don`t know why he chose me to visit his demons upon. I don`t know that. I wish that he were here, still alive.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Would you have told the story if you were alive?
PHILLIPS: That, I don`t know about. Probably.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sister Chynna says she believes Mackenzie but stepmom Michelle Phillips says, "you lie". Quote, "take with a grain of salt anything said by someone who had a needle in their arm for 35 years," end quote.
Now, remember John Phillips is not alive to defend himself. Mackenzie says she`s sober but her history of drug use, I believe, has damaged her credibility.
Jodie, you admitted you spoke at a university about overcoming drug addiction and that even as you were speaking, you were coming off a cocaine bender and using the speaking fee you got to pay for your habit.
SWEETIN: Yes. You know, like I said, I did a lot of things that I wish I could take back, you know, that I wish hadn`t happened in some of the cycle of my addiction. And you know, I have come out and I don`t expect anyone to automatically trust anything that I say. You know, whether or not I have had a history of addiction or not.
But you know, I understand people`s trepidation with trusting someone who has, you know, a history of addiction or a history of lying. And you know, the only thing that you can really say is you know what, I only have -- I just got 11 months sober. The past 11 months...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations. Congratulations. That`s excellent.
SWEETIN: Thank you. Thank you.
And I worked really hard and I try not to -- I do the right thing for myself now. I do the right thing because I know it`s the right thing to do, and not to -- I don`t do it so that anyone else will give me credit or anyone else will think better of me. I do it just because it`s the right thing now and I try and just be honest every day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I applaud you. And I want to bring Danny Bonaduce into this conversation because this is a really startling contrast, perhaps.
Danny, you had been clean and sober and then you admit that you started drinking again, and you`re saying basically you`re tired of slipping and so why bother. So how do you contrast your experience with Jodie`s and mine, for that matter, I have been sober 14 1/2 years.
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Congratulations to both of you.
Well, here`s how I justify it. I justify it by first of all, being correct at least for me, but I congratulate Jodie on 11 months sober.
SWEETIN: Thank you.
BONADUCE: Didn`t I meet you in rehab five years ago?
BONADUCE: So what happens is this vicious cycle goes on and on with people, and they completely do things that lower their self-esteem. I got tired of doing things that lowered my self-esteem so I just figured my place in life and stayed there and I`m quite comfortable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, do you get drunk?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. But isn`t that a problem? I mean, because with addicts, we can`t just have a couple of drinks.
Listen, if I could have a couple of drinks, I would have a couple of drinks. What happened with me is that when I had the first drink, I would develop a craving that completely overwhelmed my mind, and my mind would align with my addiction and justify any behavior that it took to get that alcohol.
So I was not in control. I was a zombie. And I couldn`t stop. So then I would have six drinks and I could potentially knock on wood, thank God I didn`t hurt anybody, or myself physically, but I was a ticking time bomb, you know, a loaded gun, whatever cliche you want to use, Jodie.
BONADUCE: That was a perfect example, though. At three drinks, I`m tall. At four drinks, I can dance. At five drinks, I`m Zac Efron.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are not Zac Efron, dude.
BONADUCE: Right. When I wake up in the morning, I`m a 50-year-old man with red hair and flesh like a Sharpay. Why wouldn`t I reach for the bottle of Zac Efron again?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen, we`re going to continue this discussion in a moment because we`re talking about perhaps the most important subject in America today.
Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: I said we`re going to need to talk about what happened in Florida. We need to talk about how -- and I used the word rape for want of a better word -- how you raped me. And he said raped you? Don`t you mean when we made love?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Mackenzie Phillips expressing her experience with fame, alleged incest and recovery. We`re talking about addiction with two people who have grappled with it: Danny Bonaduce and Jodie Sweetin.
Jodie Sweetin you have written a very courageous memoir and it is called "Unsweetined." In which you document your addiction and your recovery.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about the journey its starts with drinking at a young age, and then goes to pot, coke and then crystal meth.
SWEETIN: Yes, you know I had my first drink when I was 14. And from the beginning, it was pretty clear that I was not able to drink like a normal person, like you talk about that. You know the phenomenon of craving, once I had one, 1,000 wasn`t enough.
And you know, I continued drinking throughout high school. I`m drinking before school, drinking at school. Still managed to get good grades, went to college.
I had a period of time in the beginning of college where I quit drinking and I quit using for a little over two years. And then when I went back to drinking, I somehow found myself getting into crystal meth just by people that I was around. And found that actually easier to hide than the drinking. I was married to a police officer at the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You actually went to an opening or a premier and you were doing crystal meth...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... right after going on the red carpet?
SWEETIN: Right, I mean, you know at that point in my using it, it had gotten to an all day, every day around the clock sort of thing. And it really wasn`t about getting high anymore as much as maintaining the ability to function. I mean, I had gotten that deep into my addiction.
And then, when it came out that I had gone to rehab and stuff, you know, I was sort of outed by different, I believe it was "The Globe" or something like that by a tabloid.
And I decided to admit to having gone to rehab and admit to the crystal meth use. But I really was at a point where I was doing any of the work and really willing to get sober at that point.
And you know -- like Danny talked about, I was up and down for a long time. And I was speaking about having gotten my life together. And I really wasn`t at a point where my life was together at all. And you know it took getting to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was the final bottom? Why is it that one bottom is finally that one where you can actually quit? Because obviously, Danny is grappling with that; so many people grapple with that.
SWEETIN: It took for -- for me it took the willingness to really get honest with myself. And a big part of that you know, I have a daughter who is now 19 months old. And I just -- I started seeing myself become the mom that I was always afraid of.
I was adopted at a very early age and had a biological history in my family of addiction and alcoholism. And that fear of becoming that sort of parent, I just saw the thing starting to happen, again. I hadn`t used any drugs, but I was drinking again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You broke the cycle.
SWEETIN: I did, and you know I hope I did. I like, you know and I`m sure you understand as you know, I have today, I have the past 11 months. I don`t try to say...
MITCHELL: All we have is today.
SWEETIN: Right, I try and not say for the rest of my life everything is going to be better. But I try every day to remind myself, that if I can just do it today. I can really do it the other day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a perfect way to end this special addiction. Thank you both so much for joining me.
SWEETIN: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if you are grappling with an addiction, check out my book, "I Want". It`s my story of recovery and you can check it out at CNN.com/Jane.
You`re watching ISSUES.