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NANCY GRACE

Murray Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter in Jackson Death

Aired February 8, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson. Bring down the hammer! As we go to air, Jackson`s live-in Caribbean doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, formally charged with killing music superstar Michael Jackson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the Michael Jackson homicide case. Just minutes ago, his doctor, Conrad Murray, arrived at court in Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Los Angeles district attorney, after six months of investigating this, has come up with the strategy of charging Dr. Murray with just this one count of involuntary manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he just pleaded not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A not guilty plea is entered, denial of all special allegations (INAUDIBLE) should they exist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a powerful picture. He was given drug after drug after drug. But I think what`s also going to be important is he had given Propofol to him before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Dr. Murray is convicted of that charge, he`s facing a maximum sentence of four years in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray is going to be remanded into the custody of the sheriff`s department, and bail in this particular case is going to be set at $75,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emotions are running high. Not only have family members shown up, there in the court, we have Joe, Katherine, La Toya, Jermaine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today the district attorney`s office filed one felony count of involuntary manslaughter against Dr. Conrad Murray in connection with last summer`s death of Michael Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson. As we go to air, Jackson`s live-in Caribbean doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, in an L.A. courtroom charged with killing music superstar Michael Jackson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told the truth, and I have faith the truth will prevail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s doctor, Conrad Murray, surrenders to police, a highly anticipated arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The L.A. County district attorney`s office officially charged Murray with one count of involuntary manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today the district attorney`s office filed one felony count of involuntary manslaughter against Dr. Conrad Murray in connection with last summer`s death of Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With that, in the event of a conviction, it would be four years maximum in state prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family was hoping that it would be higher, maybe a murder two charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may not under any circumstances use any anesthetic agent, such as specifically Propofol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t worry. As long as I keep God in my heart and you in my life, I will be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In California and the state of Texas, your practice is going to be restricted in this area. You may not under any circumstances use any anesthetic agents, such as specifically Propofol. You`re not to be using that. You`re not to prescribe that. You`re not to have it in any manner whatsoever. Do you understand that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. It`s been a long time coming, but today in an L.A. courtroom, the man charged with killing -- and I`m quoting from the formal charges -- killing superstar Michael Jackson.

Straight out to Kevin Frazier with "Entertainment Tonight," in court today, standing by there in L.A. at the courthouse. Kevin, what happened?

KEVIN FRAZIER, "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT": You know what, Nancy? Conrad Murray arrived here really ready to face the music. He walked through hundreds of Michael Jackson fans and reporters, some even yelling "murderer." And once he got into the courtroom, he faced off with the Jackson family. But let`s not call it a face-off because not once did he look over at the Jackson family. There was Katherine Jackson, Michael`s father, Joe, brothers Randy, Jackie, Jermaine and Tito, and also his sister, La Toya.

Now, the interesting part of the day came when it got to the bail part of the hearing. And the prosecution wanted the bail set at $300,000. They considered Conrad Murray a flight risk. The defense said it should stay at $25,000. Now, Judge Keith L. Schwartz set it at $75,000. When he did that, Jermaine Jackson looked down at me and he said, B.S. The Jackson family was not happy with the fact that bail was set at $75,000. They felt it should be set much higher. And they want real justice to come out of this, just as many of the Jackson fans who were standing outside. Conrad Murray...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on.

FRAZIER: ... very quiet...

GRACE: They want real justice? Has anybody told them Conrad Murray is only charged with involuntary manslaughter? That is the lowest possible charge. In fact, in a lot of jurisdictions, you can get straight probation for involuntary manslaughter. Now, this is a doctor that by all accounts hooked Michael Jackson up to one of the most powerful sedatives that there is, Propofol, and left him unattended until he died. He lay there in his bed and died with an IV stuck up his arm.

FRAZIER: Well, Nancy, that`s one of...

GRACE: Why involuntary manslaughter?

FRAZIER: ... the reasons why the Jackson family is upset. That`s one of the reasons why the Jackson family`s upset. They feel the same way. They don`t think it should be involuntary manslaughter. But of course, Conrad Murray`s team says, Listen, this was an accident. And they say that they`re going to present evidence that will show that...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait! Wait, wait, wait, wait! Unleash the lawyers.

FRAZIER: Go ahead.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Tonight with me, Robin Sax, former prosecutor, set to be in that courtroom today until the Jackson entourage took her seat, Raymond Giudice, veteran defense attorney, Atlanta, Alex Sanchez, renowned defense attorney, New York, and special guest Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe Jackson, joining us out of L.A.

Listen, this is what I`d always say when I would talk to a jury about a crime being an accident, Raymond Giudice. Let`s just say, for instance, Was it an accident? You went there that day and you ignored, you disregarded every protocol you learned in medical school. Was it an accident you hooked him up? Was it an accident you left him there for hours upon hours while you chatted away with your girlfriend on the cell phone? Was that an accident? Was it an accident that you never checked on him? Was it an accident you waited until you call 911?

Take a look at it, Raymond Giudice. You`re the defense attorney. Where`s the accident?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it seems like the district attorney`s office thinks there`s an accident. They`re the ones that charged him.

GRACE: No, I`m asking you. I`m asking you, Ray.

GIUDICE: All right, here`s what the accident is. The accident is that this doctor had no idea of all the chemicals that were in Michael Jackson`s body from God knows how many other doctors, how much abuse of these medicines he had taken. He had no idea that the Propofol would mix with those medicines. And I think the state can`t show causation. That`s why there`s no malice.

GRACE: Put Giudice up. Put him up!

GIUDICE: Put me up.

GRACE: This was his live-in doctor. He had seen Jackson`s body. He saw all those track marks on him. He knew the state of his health. Don`t tell me he didn`t know. Try to do a little better, Alex Sanchez, than Giudice did.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, the district attorney and the grand jury heard all of this evidence. And after six months of hearing all this evidence, those are the charges they returned. So all those statements you made a little while ago about accident here and all the negligent behavior, the grand jury heard it...

GRACE: Alex...

SANCHEZ: ... they made a decision and decided to charge him with one single count.

GRACE: Alex, Alex, Alex, I appreciate your reiteration as a historian. But I asked you about how this could possibly, in light of the facts, be an accident. Robin Sax?

ROBIN SAX, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all, this was not even a grand jury hearing. This case was filed by complaint. It`s going to preliminary hearing. So this wasn`t even a box of grand jurors deciding. This was a safety move by the L.A. DA`s office. They wanted to make sure they could charge. They only charged one count, the least amount of charges that are possible. And frankly, I think they`re scared to lose.

GRACE: You know what? You can`t go into it that way, Brian Oxman. I mean, you`ve tried enough cases. Brian Oxman, the day that you`re afraid you`re going to lose and that affects your strategic decisions at trial, you need to hang it up. You need to go hang it up and go do something else, you know, find another vocation. Teach, be a researcher, but don`t get in the courtroom if you`re afraid.

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: Absolutely right, Nancy. I listen to this and I hear people who are gunshy, people who can`t look at the facts. Take a look at what this case is. A doctor repeatedly administered an anesthesia drug like it was sleep-eeze, a sleep medication to put him to sleep. Ridiculous!

GRACE: Where did this guy go to medical school? Brian, where did he go to medical school?

OXMAN: He apparently went to medical school at a foreign school. I`m not sure of his background, Nancy. But I do know, in this case, it is beyond the standards of the state of California. The California medical board just announced in the last few minutes that they are going to be suspending his license during the pendency of this. And I was thinking, would I take my children...

GRACE: Well, they`re just now suspending his license?

OXMAN: Yes.

GRACE: I thought that was a done deal.

OXMAN: No, just now.

GRACE: No! He`s had the...

OXMAN: Just now, Nancy.

GRACE: He has had the ability to sedate people since Jackson died? Now, hold on!

OXMAN: Yes, he did.

GRACE: Oxman, don`t let`s you and I get too cozy about this because I never said Michael Jackson did not commit child molestation, OK?

OXMAN: I hear you, Nancy.

GRACE: That`s not what this is about.

OXMAN: You and I have disagreed on this. But the facts are the facts here.

GRACE: That doesn`t make this right.

OXMAN: Correctamundo!

GRACE: OK, everybody, I got in my hand -- it`s apparently Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. He got out in 1999. That`s all I know about his education.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Michelle in Illinois. Hi, Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Yes, I`m with you all the way, Nancy. This is just total outrage in my book.

GRACE: Ridiculous!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- you know, he was so negligent. And what`s it going to take for these guys to start pulling these doctors` licenses? They`re out there killing people like Michael Jackson, and the rest of us don`t have a hope.

GRACE: Well, you know, Michelle...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to us they can`t do nothing to these guys!

GRACE: I don`t think -- I don`t think pulling his license is enough. Of course, he wasn`t afraid to turn himself in. Why should he be? He`s looking square in the eyes of straight probation! I`m surprised he didn`t skip and dance into the courthouse!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Conrad Murray was one of the last people to see Michael Jackson alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN Murray gave Jackson the anesthetic Propofol within 24 hours of his death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Propofol is a sedative, one that is very tricky to use, can be extraordinarily dangerous, leading to respiratory depression, possibly respiratory arrest and death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an extremely dangerous drug. It`s normally administered only in a hospital setting, with ventilation equipment available in case something goes wrong with the patient.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can this drug kill you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shuts down really the whole brain. It really puts you sort of into a medically-induced coma, that possibly causing either the heart to unable to regulate itself or causing an arrest of the heart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson asked for this, begged for this, wanted this, said, I`m going to be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was April of 2009 that he asked me for the drug. And he went in detail to say, Once one drop hits my vein with the IV, he said, I go to sleep right away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After an incredibly long investigation, today in court Michael Jackson`s Caribbean doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray. He`s charged with killing the music icon Michael Jackson.

But now the other shoe drops and we learn that under the charge the California prosecutors have chosen, this case could actually result in nothing but straight probation, not one day behind bars. We are taking your calls live.

Back to you, Kevin Frazier with "Entertainment Tonight," joining us. He`s there at the L.A. Courthouse. Kevin, how do all these people find out what`s going to happen in court, that Conrad Murray is going to be coming in, the alleged killer of Michael Jackson? How do they know to show up and start heckling?

FRAZIER: Well, Michael Jackson fans always seem to be in the know. And they were out here in full force, signs and everything, Nancy. You`ve experienced what Michael Jackson fans are like. And they were very upset, along with the family, and they wanted justice served.

The other point I want to make here, Nancy, is that in the court today, the prosecution did mention that they are seeking to revoke Conrad Murray`s license in the state of California, but he is allowed to practice in other states. You heard the judge`s warning about staying away from strong anesthesia. But he can still write prescriptions. He`s a cardiologist. And as the judge said...

GRACE: Kevin Frazier...

FRAZIER: ... if you have to give a prescription for...

GRACE: Kevin, Kevin, Kevin...

FRAZIER: ... Lipitor, you can do. Yes?

GRACE: I don`t care because when he took his oath, the Hippocratic oath, he swore to administer medicine and the practice of medicine judiciously. And what did he do? He doped up Michael Jackson until he was a zombie...

FRAZIER: Nancy, we actually...

GRACE: ... and let him die!

FRAZIER: ... agree here.

GRACE: Come on!

FRAZIER: Nancy, we actually agree here. We actually agree here, Nancy. No, we`re not disagreeing. I think it is ridiculous he`s allowed to still practice medicine. I was shocked when that happened, and when the judge said that in the courtroom, I was very, very surprised.

GRACE: And the other thing -- out to you, Jean Casarez -- Kevin Frazier with "Entertainment Tonight" joining us at the courthouse, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session. The prosecutor says they want his license. Oh, boo-hoo! If he were a convicted felon, that would have a lot more impact than losing his license in California.

JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: That`s right. And California -- he doesn`t practice medicine in California, so we`ll see if the other states follow suit.

You know, Nancy, the coroner`s report was released just minutes ago. It`s 52 pages. But what it does diagram, Nancy, is not only all the medication bottles that were on the nightstand that were in full view of anyone, including the physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, but the vials, the intravenous vials of not only Propofol, Nancy, but Lidocaine, Midazolam, and many others. And Nancy, you cannot administer those vials to yourself of liquid. They are intravenous. They are done by a physician.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, I`m very intrigued. I`m very curious about what that room looked like, the room where Michael Jackson died under the influence of Propofol, knocked out cold. It`s my understanding, when the cops got there or when the medical examiner detectives got there, you could still see the indentation where Michael Jackson had been lying. There was a blue pad for him to urinate on on the bed. So they expected him -- Conrad Murray anticipated him to be out for many hours, so they had it set up for him to wet the bed.

There were many, many bottles open of Propofol, which is completely against, in contradiction, of all protocol regarding Propofol. And you could see residue amounts in all of these bottles. What else do you know about this room? I know it was not his regular bedroom.

CASAREZ: There was something else, Nancy, that on first blush, you say, What does this have to do with anything? But on second thought, it may have to do with a lot. There was a bottle that was sealed, according to the coroner`s report, of urine. And that goes along with what you`re saying because that can go to the issue of knowledge, the knowledge on the part of now the defendant that Michael Jackson was going to be out, was going to be out for a long time. And it can go toward what prosecutors will say is criminal responsibility.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Emily in Georgia. Hi, Emily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is -- it`s more of a -- it`s a comment.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t understand why the prosecution -- I am weak and sickened to my stomach about this. The prosecution should have went to second degree. They should have gone for it. I don`t understand, Nancy. Maybe you can help me out.

GRACE: Emily, here`s the thing. Here`s the thing, Emily. I hate to disappoint you, but I can`t help you out because I think they were wrong. Here`s the trial strategy that many of us believe should have employed. Charge it with the highest count you can, and then give the jury lesser included charges to choose from. What about it, Robin Sax?

SAX: Absolutely. And that is standard protocol for the Los Angeles county DA`s office, is to start from the top and then plead down or to give alternatives. So this is unusual. You`ve got it dead on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Fire paramedic 33. What is the nature of your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we have -- we have a gentleman here that needs help, and he`s not breathing. He`s not breathing, and we need to -- we`re trying to pump him, and he`s not -- he`s not breathing, sir.

911 OPERATOR: Was -- anybody witness what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.

911 OPERATOR: OK. We`re on our way. We`re on our way. I`m just passing these questions on to my paramedics while they`re on the way there, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. He`s pumping. He`s pumping his chest, but he`s not responding to anything, sir. Please...

911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. We`re on our way. We`re less than a mile away and we`ll be there shortly.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Back to Kevin Frazier with "Entertainment Tonight." He`s been in the courtroom all day long. He`s joining us right now from the courthouse there in L.A. So Kevin Frazier, while the defense was eh-eh-eh about their bond, he`s already gone. He`s made bond. He`s high-tailed it out of the courtroom.

FRAZIER: Conrad Murray is going back to either Las Vegas or Houston to continue practicing medicine. And you know, one of the concerns about the bond, the bail for Conrad Murray, was that, you know, he`s had trouble meeting his child support payments, and they feel that if he can`t take care of that obligation, then that shows that he might just skip town because he`s not worried about paying child support, so maybe he`s not worried about sticking around and becomes a flight risk.

GRACE: So you`re telling me, Kevin Frazier, that the man who is now charged formally with killing Michael Jackson is also a deadbeat dad?

FRAZIER: Well, he claims he can`t make any money...

GRACE: I don`t...

FRAZIER: ... that he`s lost his ability...

GRACE: I didn`t ask you that.

FRAZIER: ... to earn an income now. And because...

GRACE: I didn`t ask you what...

FRAZIER: No, but...

GRACE: Please stop. I didn`t ask you...

FRAZIER: But I`m going to tell you. Hold on. I`m going to tell you.

GRACE: ... what he claimed.

FRAZIER: OK.

GRACE: I asked you, is he not paying his child support?

FRAZIER: Right now, he`s not paying his child support. He made a deal with one of the mothers of one of his children to kind of reduce the little bit of payment he was making to her. But he says he can`t support his children right now because he`s not able to make a living.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michael Jackson`s sudden death at age 50. Sources are telling CNN the singer`s arms were riddled with marks and the veins had collapsed. Both characteristics that experts say you find in people who use IV drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pure Diprivan can be pumped through an IV line just like this with precision dosing through a pump. Or you can regulate it with your hand. Like this. Give too much and you can kill the person. Stop breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diprivan, when you use it in the OR, you need oxygen to be administered to monitor your vitals and to keep basically your heart beating.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dr. Conrad Murray was one of the last people to see Michael Jackson alive. But how did he get to the singer`s side in the first place?

The two met in Las Vegas in 2006 when Dr. Murray treated one of Jackson`s children on the recommendation of a Jackson bodyguard. Murray became Jackson`s personal physician in May and explained his leave to current patients as a, quote, "once in a lifetime opportunity."

An opportunity with a salary of $150,000 a month plus travel, hotel and per diem expenses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Dr. Murray was not a doctor first. He was a friend first. They were close personal friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: $150,000 a month? To stand by and chat on the cell phone with a girlfriend while he let Michael Jackson die?

We are taking your calls live. Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what more can you tell me?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, we got a glimpse in this autopsy report of the condition of Michael Jackson`s body at the time of his death.

Now interesting, it says that he had no history of heart problems. Also describes puncture marks on his arms, his wrists, on his chest, on his neck. They also say that his hair was thin. He was wearing a wig.

But, Nancy, there are no other injuries, no other striking abnormalities in here that would point to another cause of death.

GRACE: Well, Ellie, what about those puncture marks? What were their origins?

JOSTAD: Well, the autopsy doesn`t explain that, Nancy, but it does say that he`s got puncture wounds on his right shoulder, both arms, both ankles. Some of these from injections he was given in order to resuscitate him but some pre-existing from the looks of this.

Bruises on his body. A discolored mark on his chest. All kinds of other things like gauze taped on his nose and also some indications that he was suffering from vitiligo. The condition he said he long had. That was the reason why he looked so white, looked so much lighter than he had previously. They say he did have prominent splotches on his body.

GRACE: I`m interested in that external urine catheter. And the reason I`m interested -- let`s go out to Dr. Panchali Dhar, board certified anesthesiologist, author of "Before the Scalpel: What Everyone Needs to Know about Anesthesia." Dr. Dhar is joining us from New York.

Doctor, thank you for being with us as always. Doctor, the fact that he had an external catheter that there was a bottle of urine there beside him, that they had a blue plastic mat underneath him. Specifically for the purpose for him to wet the bed.

To me that said that this doctor knew Michael Jackson was going to be down for the count for quite some time.

DR. PANCHALI DHAR, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED ANESTHESIOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE THE SCALPEL": Absolutely. What he was trying to do is keep Michael Jackson knocked out for hours. And the bladder fills. You have to urinate somehow. So he put a catheter in Michael Jackson.

Now that urine is gold because a lot of the drugs that he was taking are probably in that urine sample. So you can find out what medications Michael was on just by examining that urine. So that could be substantial evidence right there.

GRACE: Dr. Dhar, anesthesiology is obviously your specialty. What do you make of this?

DHAR: Well, anesthesia is a highly-trained specialist and anesthesiologist who`s an M.D. and they go through rigorous training for four, five, six years just to learn how to use these medications.

Let`s look at the propofol one more time. This is the medication we`re talking about. It is not only a sedative, but in some doses it`s a complete general anesthetic where you`re completely unconscious, you`re not breathing and you need a trained person, an M.D. or trained anesthesia provider supporting your respiration.

Now if Conrad Murray is looking the other way, chatting on the phone, Michael Jackson stops breathing, and eventually oxygen levels go down to zero, his heart stops. Conrad Murray turns around and is wondering, gee, is Michael Jackson pale and white because of bleaching or because he`s dead?

It took him a little while to figure that one out. So he starts the chest compressions all wrong and he doesn`t even have the right equipment to resuscitate him.

GRACE: And it`s my understanding, to you, Jean Casarez, that Conrad Murray actually was in the other room. He wasn`t even sitting there with Michael Jackson during this.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": By his own words he was in the other room. He admitted that after he gave him the propofol he left -- he left to go to the bathroom. Then he said he came back. Of course that is inconsistent with the phone records that describe him being on the phone for 43 minutes.

But, Nancy, this autopsy report that just came down, some brand-new stuff in this autopsy report, that propofol along with numerous other drugs that were liquid or you would inject in nature were found in his blood, his urine, his liver tissue, his vitreous humor. And his stomach content, Nancy, had propofol.

GRACE: And to you, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert. A lot of people say it`s some sort of defense. Well, Michael Jackson begged for it. He wanted the drugs. He paid the doctor to administer him drugs.

So what? If someone comes up to you and asks you to do something illegal, even offers to pay you $1 million or more a year, that doesn`t mean that makes it OK.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "TOXIC PEOPLE": You`re absolutely right, Nancy. I mean, that is just unacceptable. And he should have had the professionalism to say, no, Michael, I can`t do it. If you have sleep problems let`s work on some other ways to help you, not do what he did.

And you see this irresponsibility in his behavior. With his children he`s negligent in terms of making payments. And now he`s also obviously negligent with what he did with Michael.

GRACE: Look -- look at him, Lillian. This is your expertise. Looking at people. Their body language. He is not worried.

GLASS: Yes.

GRACE: Why should he be worried?

GLASS: No. No. He`s arrogant. Look at that posture.

GRACE: He looks like.

GLASS: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. You called it.

GRACE: The worst thing that he thinks may happen to him is he may not be able to practice medicine in California. So what? That certainly hasn`t stopped him before.

GLASS: That`s right.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To carol in California, hi, Carol.

CAROL, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. At this moment I feel absolutely sick to even to be called a Californian. And I feel that the judicial system in Los Angeles is ridiculous, it`s negligent.

And I just want to be a voice for a second to -- for instance, to Michael`s children. Because my father was killed in an accident when I was 12 and he was 42. In recent years I lost my three younger brothers.

And I`m here to tell you that when those little children lie in their beds at night thinking of their father they believe that they can die from the pain in their chest. The same for his siblings. As far as Michael`s mother she will never, ever be free from that pain until the day she is dead.

And I`m just -- I`m wondering how can they pamper this man, Murray? I can`t even call him doctor. Do you suppose he was exempt from the Hippocratic Oath?

GRACE: No. He is not exempt from the Hippocratic Oath, but I like you have tried every way imaginable to understand, to comprehend, to get my mind around the weakest charges possible under the statute in this case.

She mentioned -- Carol in California mentioned Michael Jackson`s children and whether you think Jackson was a good father, a bad father, an absentee father, a doting father, he`s the only father they had.

Take a listen to what they just said. We`ve just received this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S SON: We are proud to be here to accept this reward on behalf of our father, Michael Jackson. First of all we`d like to thank God for watching over us for these past several months and our grandma and grandpa for their love and support.

We would also -- we`d also like to thank the fans, our father loved you so much because you were always there for him.

Our father was always concerned about the planet and humanity. Through all his hard work and dedication he has helped through many charities and donated to all of them. We`d also -- through all his songs his message was simple. Love.

We will continue to spread his message and help the world. Thank you. We love you, Daddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Those were Jackson`s children. They made their first public appearance on the Grammys. That was since Jackson`s funeral, of course. And that`s from CBS and the National Academy of Recording Artists.

We are taking your calls. The charge is in in the death of Michael Jackson. Many court watchers across the country completely shocked by the weak charges against the doctor who let Michael Jackson die. According to the prosecutor.

As we go to break, on a happy note, happy anniversary to Connecticut friends, Stanley and Henrietta Oaks. Together since 1947. Sixty-two years together.

Active in their South Campbellsville Baptist Church. They love their two children, three grandchildren, three great-grandchildren.

Well, you`ve certainly beat the odds. Happy anniversary, Stanley and Henrietta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s a mystery. Michael Jackson`s sudden death at age 50. What killed him? Sources are telling CNN the singer`s arms were riddled with marks and the veins had collapsed. Both characteristics that experts say you`d find in people who use IV drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pure Diprivan can be pumped through an IV line just like this with precision dosing through a pump. Or you can regulate it with your hand. Like this. Give too much and you can kill the person. Stop breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diprivan, when you use it in the OR, you need oxygen to be administered to monitor your vitals and to keep basically your heart beating.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michael Jackson may have taken more than 10 Xanax pills a day. Now a 2004 police document says Jackson asked some employees to get the prescription sedative Xanax under their name.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: People start off taking a few and they take more and more and they build up tolerance. If you stop taking it the withdrawal is just awful. People can have tremors, they can even have seizures. They get the shakes. They can have sweats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Mark Harold, former police officer, joining us from the Atlanta PD, now in New York.

Mark, thank you for being with us. Mark, it seems to me they had an abundance of evidence. The charges came down today. They could not under the law be any weaker. What went wrong?

MARK HAROLD, FORMER POLICE OFFICER, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I`m not sure. This is -- there`s a lot of evidence but it`s the same type of evidence. It`s basically what drugs were in Mike Jackson? What kind of things -- the doctor is the main witness and they basically must know and thought they could get to malice. They basically didn`t think they could go to first or second degree.

GRACE: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Are you forgetting about voluntary manslaughter? That doesn`t require malice.

HAROLD: Well, voluntary manslaughter you need that heat of passion, you need that reaction. So I`m not sure voluntary manslaughter goes here. Usually that`s something like, you come in, you find your wife in bed with somebody and you shoot them real quick in the heat of passion.

GRACE: That is one example of voluntary manslaughter. It is not the only example of voluntary manslaughter.

Unleash the lawyers. Robin Sax, Raymond Giudice, Alex Sanchez, Brian Oxman.

How, Robin Sax, could this fit under a greater charge?

ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR OF "PREDATORS & CHILD MOLESTERS": Well, the malice here that you could see for a second-degree murder would be in a -- from a couple of things.

First of all, you could see the mouth is being shown and the fact that this is beyond just negligent disregard. The negligent disregard was giving him the propofol to begin with. But the malice is shown in the "I know you shouldn`t have this. You have the track lines on you. I`ve walked away in the other room. I don`t give a darn one way or another.

That is a "I dare care if you die." That`s what brings it up and pushes it up a notch.

GRACE: Well put. What about it, Raymond?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, if this is the best case the state has after all these months Murray`s lawyer ought to pick 12. There`s no downside. If a jury convicts him he`ll probably get straight probation anyway. He`s going to lose his license. I`d roll the dice. I`d be emboldened. Their case is weak and these charges reflect it, Nancy.

GRACE: I don`t think their case is weak. I think the charges are weak.

And, Alex Sanchez, I recall in my youth I had a defense attorney say in jury selection vor dire, I`ll take the first 12. And not wanting to look like I mistrusted the first 12 I said, OK, in front of the jury pool.

It was a bank robbery case and I`m sad to report that I got a convicted bank robber on the jury. All right? So I don`t know about rolling the dice and throwing 12 in the box. I managed to eke out a conviction on that one. But it`s not that simple, Alex Sanchez.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, let me tell you something, Nancy. I think it would be -- would have been irresponsible and even unethical if the prosecution had charged him with higher charges such as murder in the first degree. Just for the sole purpose of trying to negotiate down to, let`s say, manslaughter.

GRACE: That`s not the point, Alex.

SANCHEZ: So I think that was appropriate.

GRACE: Nobody said that.

SANCHEZ: . what the prosecution had done.

GRACE: Nobody suggested that that was what the course of action should have been.

SANCHEZ: But everybody suggesting that he should have been charged with much higher crimes including yourself. And I disagree with that.

GRACE: Alex.

SANCHEZ: The prosecution made a decision.

GRACE: You are taking it completely out of context. What Robin Sax and I both said is that there is evidence here to charge with a greater crime and allow the jury, for them to be the trier of fact and not the prosecutor.

SANCHEZ: It doesn`t appear that there is enough evidence.

GRACE: Well, that says you.

SANCHEZ: Otherwise the prosecution would have done so.

GRACE: That says you. But not says me.

SANCHEZ: But since.

GRACE: What about it, Brian Oxman?

SANCHEZ: Says the prosecution.

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: Nancy, this is a second-degree murder case. It is overwhelmingly a second-degree murder case. This man has propofol in his vitreous humor, in his eyes. It`s leaked into his eyes. He has it in his stomach content. What is he doing, drinking the propofol? I mean come on.

GRACE: He had propofol in his eyes?

OXMAN: He has it in the vitreous humor of his eyes. He has -- acute propofol intoxication. This is one of the worst cases that I could possibly imagine. To say that the prosecution evidence is weak, it is overwhelming here that there is malice implied from the recklessness with which this drug was administered to Michael Jackson. And I will put that up against any 12 people anywhere, any time.

GRACE: Is that true, Jean Casarez, that he had it in the vitreous? His body was swimming in propofol?

CASAREZ: That`s right. That is -- that was just released today with the autopsy report.

Nancy, here`s something everybody is forgetting. And you and I can relate to this from our "CourtTV" days. And I`ll say the news, you can say the views, but the fact is do you remember the Robert Blake case in Los Angeles? High-profile, Robert Blake, charged with murder. Out and out acquittal of Robert Blake in that Los Angeles courthouse.

Then you had Phil Specter, the first trial it was a hung jury. They had to re-try him again. They barely got a conviction in that case.

But, Nancy, that`s what`s come out recently out of high-profile cases from L.A. Now, you can give your analysis on it.

GRACE: Well put. That`s my analysis. To Maria in California, hi, Maria.

MARIA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, how are you, Nancy?

(CROSSTALK)

MARIA: This is Maria from California.

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

MARIA: The reason that I`m calling is because I think that the family should be also blamed, too. They should have done an intervention and not let him be by himself all the time. I know this doctor did very wrong but I think the family should have stick together and do something about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today, the district attorney`s office filed one felony count of involuntary manslaughter against Dr. Conrad Murray in connection with last summer`s death of Michael Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Reagan in Missouri, hi, Reagan.

REAGAN, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: Hi, Nancy. I -- my question is, if Michael Jackson had no history of heart problems and had no health-related reasons to be treated by Dr. Murray, then this displays a total lack of personal responsibility on Michael Jackson`s part in this case. He was obviously.

GRACE: Well, here`s the thing, Reagan. When you`re a dope addict and you go to a reputable doctor and you say, could you stick a needle in my arm and put me out for, say, I don`t know, three or four days at a time? Most doctors would say no. You need to go to rehab.

It`s not the dope addict`s fault that they want dope, all right? Call me crazy, but that`s my understanding of medicine. Of course, I`m a JD, not an MD.

Back to you, Kevin Frasier. What now? And how did the family respond?

KEVIN FRAZIER, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT, IN COURT TODAY: You know, the family is upset and, by the way, we heard a caller say earlier that this family should have done something. They did try to intervene several times but you just said, an addict can kind of cordoned themselves off and stay away from the family.

That`s kind of what Michael did. The family tried to intervene. They were always concerned about him and they always wanted to help out.

By the way, Conrad Murray -- seven children, two marriages, three different women have had those children.

GRACE: And you won`t say it, but you said he`s not making his child support payments so, to me, that says deadbeat dad.

FRAZIER: He can`t.

GRACE: I don`t care if he can`t or won`t.

FRAZIER: Well, he can`t because.

GRACE: But he`s not making them.

FRAZIER: Right.

GRACE: That`s what every father says in front of a judge, there won`t be child support. I can`t. That`s what they all say, Kevin Frazier.

Kathy in Texas, hi, Kathy.

KATHY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hey. I just -- what I don`t understand is -- I grew up with Michael Jackson. I`m 61. The same age. And Michael Jackson put his whole and 115 percent trust in this doctor and he paid this doctor a whole lot of money to make sure that he was safe.

And I don`t understand -- I live 45 miles north of Houston and on the news one night, they showed Conrad Murray sitting -- opening up his office in Houston and it made me absolutely sick. I just don`t understand.

I don`t understand how a doctor can do this and then go to another state and open up an office and.

GRACE: Kathy, I can only hope that the medical board in Texas is listening tonight.

Everyone, charges in the Michael Jackson case, such as they are, have come down.

Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Dustin Workman II, 19, Greenwood, Nebraska, killed, Iraq, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved writing poetry, rock music. Favorite band Disturbed. Dreamed of being a cop.

Leaves behind parents Valerie and Dustin Senior, brother Cory, sisters Courtney and Krista.

Dustin Workman II, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you and a special goodnight from Georgia friends, Joan and Jackie. Joan also known as Coach.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END