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Community Searches for Answers in Teen`s Murder

Aired March 4, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, ISSUES is searching for justice. An all-American girl raped and murdered in broad daylight, her body buried in a shallow grave. Beautiful Chelsea King was guilty of nothing more than going for a jog. Now she is dead. The war on women has claimed another victim.

Once again, a registered sex offender is charged. He brutally, sexually attacked a 13-year-old girl just ten years ago. So why in the hell was in this guy out of prison in the first place?

Tonight we`re looking for answers. How many more women have to die before we rise up against junk justice? America`s women and children shouldn`t have to live in fear. Moms and dads shouldn`t have to worry if their precious child could be next.

This is an ISSUES call to action. We can`t continue to treat these brutal murders as business as usual. Women must break free from their psychological burkas, join together, and demand freedom from fear!

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, outrage sweeps the nation in the wake of the murder of 17-year-old Chelsea King. A 230-pound monster is accused of raping and killing this beautiful, straight-A student.

Chelsea was attacked while jogging last Thursday. Accused killer rapist, 30-year-old John Gardner III is a convicted sex offender. Tonight, cops say he may be linked to a total of -- are you ready for this? -- seven women or girls. Cops say he may be linked to seven females. Five of those incidents happened after he was released from prison in 2005.

Potential victims are coming out of the woodwork. New reports tonight about an attempted abduction at gunpoint of a 16-year-old girl last October. She was walking less than four miles from John Gardner`s house in Lake Elsinore. Check out this really chilling composite sketch from that attack. It bears a striking resemblance to Gardner.

Cops have now towed away a black sedan, often seen parked outside Gardner`s mother`s home. Last Thursday, the very day Chelsea disappeared jogging, cops say a black sedan followed a 13-year-old girl as she left school near where Chelsea vanished. Cops want to know tonight, was he trolling for victims that fateful day?

Gardner`s mom`s house is a short distance from where Chelsea vanished and from where she turned up dead. John Gardner was reportedly staying with his mother. That house has now become ground zero for community outrage. Yesterday, graffiti found scrolled on the garage door: "Chelsea`s blood is on you. Move out."

Later two men painting over the vandalism were confronted by an angry member of the community who just couldn`t hold back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see the sympathy you have for her! I can see it in your eyes! Yes, you`re in this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) neighborhood. Get out of here!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer, can you get them to step away from us? They`re bugging us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), because you`re scum, because you`re sitting there protecting somebody who killed an innocent girl!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s hard to blame him for boiling over. But my big issue tonight is that we need to take our anger and channel it into a solution. Let`s harness our collective outrage into a new movement. Tonight, here on ISSUES we are calling that new movement Freedom from Fear. And we`re going to tell you at home how you can get involved.

And I`m taking your calls. What`s your solution in this new movement, Freedom from Fear? Our number: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 877-586-7297.

Tonight, we have an extraordinary panel of experts. And we`re also very honored to be talking exclusively tonight with Sheila Welch, the grandmother of a precious girl named Amber who disappeared in the very same area in February of 2009, a disappearance cops say could be linked to John Gardner. But we begin with Lynn Stuart, reporter with HLN affiliate XETV in San Diego.

Lynn, what is the very latest?

LYNN STUART, REPORTER, XETV: Well, Jane right now, John Gardner III remains in solitary confinement here in the Central Jail in San Diego. And the D.A., well, the district attorney isn`t really saying very much, because they`re holding their cards very close to the vest, because they don`t want to do anything that would interfere with their case.

But today one of the things that we looked into is that initial plea agreement, when he pled guilty to those initial charges of molesting the 13-year-old. There`s something we didn`t even know, that during that case, he had been charged also with molesting another child, a 14-year-old. But that charge was dropped in that case. They were telling us that, initially the child said it was consensual. She had known him for all of a week and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How can you have anything consensual with a 14-year- old?

STUART: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a contradiction in terms. A 14-year-old cannot consent to anything sexual. They barely know the facts of life at that age. Continue.

STUART: Well, and unfortunately, this 14-year-old was the avenue that the 13-year-old actually met John Gardner, which makes is even more infuriating. Actually, the 14-year-old thought that she was having some sort of a relationship with -- with John Gardner, and then he picked up this 14-year-old and the 13-year-old and then took that 13-year-old back to his mother`s home, the home again in question that had the graffiti on it yesterday from, apparently, some neighbors who were outraged.


STUART: So that`s how they met initially. He molested one girl, and then it was an avenue to the next girl, according to court documents.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s hard to keep track. Good report, Lynn.

But Dr. Mark Kalish, you`re a psychiatrist who works closely with the psychiatrist Dr. Matthew Carroll (ph), who had recommended the maximum for John Gardner back in 2000 when he molested that 13-year-old girl.

Doctor Carroll (ph) said right here in this report I`m holding in my hands, "It`s unlikely the defendant will be amenable to treatment. There is no known treatment for an individual that sexually assaults girls and does not admit to it. The fact that the defendant takes no responsibility whatsoever for his actions makes him an extremely poor candidate for any sexual offender treatment."

Basically he`s saying you can`t cure this guy. They let him go after five years -- Doctor.

DR. MARK KALISH, PSYCHIATRIST: Unbelievable. Looking at the pre- sentencing memorandum, there were red flags all over the place. You have the prior incident with this 14-year-old, where even the defense attorney talks about he fondled her breasts and rubbed her vaginal area.

Then he goes on in support of what a good guy this fellow is, that he does community service by driving neighbors` children to the beach.


KALISH: Another red flag. And it just keeps going on and on. The -- talking about this being a consensual act between this 14-year-old is unbelievable. These should have all been red flags to the district attorney. It certainly was to Dr. Carroll (ph)...


KALISH: ... who did a thorough and smart evaluation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doctor, more junk justice after the break. We`re going to talk in 60 seconds to Sheila Welch, Amber Dubois`s grandmother.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say John Gardner could also be linked to the disappearance of 14-year-old Amber Dubois. She vanished over a year ago in nearby Escondido, just seven and a half miles from where Chelsea vanished.

Again, I`m honored tonight to be joined exclusively by Amber`s maternal grandmother, Sheila Welch, who is also a trial lawyer.

Thank you so much for being part of this dialogue, Sheila. I`d like to play a clip of Amber`s dad, sending out a message to her on NBC this morning.


MAURICE DUBOIS, FATHER OF AMBER DUBOIS: Amber, if you can hear me, sweetheart, please keep in mind that your family loves you so much. Stay strong. Stay faithful. And please believe that we are going to find you one day. We`ll have you back home with us.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sheila, what does your gut tell you about a possible link between this suspect, John Gardner, and your granddaughter`s disappearance?

SHEILA WELCH, GRANDMOTHER OF AMBER DUBOIS: Well, I think the main thing is that it`s taken so long to even determine that there might be a link. This was a man that we knew of a year ago, that we begged and pleaded for the local police to investigate. And it`s a sad tale of woe to suddenly find a year later that he`s been active and continues to be active until the recent apprehension by the San Diego sheriff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me jump in here, Sheila. I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You`re saying that you begged authorities to investigate this particular individual?

WELCH: We had a list, as anyone can get from the Internet, of persons that we were concerned with. And my daughter in particularly, she was absolutely horrified that the police had not done a thorough examination of every one of the people, especially those who live within three miles of the home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is junk justice, Sheila.

WELCH: This is junk justice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s junk justice!

WELCH: And you`re absolutely right when you say that there is wonderful technology in the world today that is not being used by the police. And I was absolutely appalled to find out that the techniques used to find missing children are Neanderthal. They don`t use any of the really wonderful technological things that are available today for searching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. And I want to give you some stats and then get your reaction.

We need to use these high-tech tools to track these predators. Think about it. How is it, America, that we can track a package from California to New York, and know exactly where that package is, at all times, but we cannot keep track of a 230-pound predator roaming from town to town in California?

The state department of justice Web site says there are 63,000 registered sex offenders in California. Get this. Five out of every six offenders are not compliant. Five out of every six registered sex offenders in California do not have an address or they are simply MIA. This is way worse than the national average, where only one out of every six sex offenders are not compliant.

And that`s bad enough. You know, John Gardner was living with his mom when he allegedly raped and murdered Chelsea. He reportedly wore a tracking device until 2008. Why did he stop wearing it? Because he had finished parole. So what?

It`s interesting that all the attacks he`s currently being investigated for happened after he got rid of that tracking device, Wendy Murphy.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. You know, some people will say, Jane, we shouldn`t use GPS tracking devices for these guys, because they don`t really stop the guy from killing and raping. You can still kill and rape while wearing one.

But you know what studies show? That guys who wear these bracelets, guys who know they`re being tracked, worry about getting caught, because that`s all they care about is raping more, and getting more victims. So the only way to do that is to not get caught.

If you put bracelet on, they think about getting caught, and some of them actually restrain themselves.


MURPHY: Let me give you a little news flash about why California is so horribly. You want to hear this?


MURPHY: The California -- the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault is opposed to registries, is opposed to mandatory punishment. That`s one of the reasons California is such a mess.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We are just getting started.


MURPHY: ... are not even doing their job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is an issues call to action. How many more women have to die before we change our junk justice system? We`re taking your calls on this. What`s your solution: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Jean in Kansas, hang on. We`re going to get to you right after the break.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prevention, prevention. Jane, you mentioned it. You know, and there`s a more basic way to prevent and make the community aware, and that is through mailings. Just like you mail the water bill, just like they mail your property tax, they should mail to citizens the information, letting them know that a sexual predator is in their community.




BONNIE DUMANIS, SAN DIEGO COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We know that this has rocked San Diego. It has rocked all of us. And as we move forward, we need to move forward and wrap our arms around this family. And begin the process of bringing this defendant through the justice system and holding him accountable for the death of Chelsea.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And how about preventing these things from happening in the first place, by giving them the proper penalties in the first place?

The horrific murder of Chelsea has rocked all of us, but imagine the depths of despair Chelsea`s parents are feeling tonight. This has got to be like a surreal nightmare. Her dad spoke at a memorial vigil for Chelsea Tuesday night. This from NBC.


DUBOIS: One of the nicknames that I have always called my daughter is my angel. She is my angel forever.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane in Kansas, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: What I`m thinking should happen is you`re putting the picture of this guy that did this up on TV. I think you should try to find the picture of either the prosecuting attorney or the judge who allowed him to go five years ago, and put his picture up there.


CALLER: Show who did that. I would just like to...



EIGLARSH: Jane, Jane, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s a great idea. And we`re going to work on it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re getting to work on that, Jane from Kansas. Go ahead.

MURPHY: I`ll give you his name. I`ll give you his name.

EIGLARSH: Jane, can I address this, because they`re really taking a beating by you. And the easiest thing for me to do so is to sit here, say nothing and go with the pack.

But here`s the reality. First of all, the maximum possible sentence at the time was 11 years. Also...



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa! Let him finish.

EIGLARSH: At the time, it was -- at the time it was 11. Prosecutors cannot give the maximum sentence on every case. Can I finish, please? Having been in the criminal justice system for 20 years, you have monsters like this. But you have monsters throughout the system. And if you gave everybody the max, the system would shut down.

MURPHY: OK. Can I -- can I jump in?


EIGLARSH: If you give him 11 years, if you give him 11 years, then that`s the max. Then that`s an ultimatum. It`s a declaration of war.

MURPHY: It was 30!

EIGLARSH: It`s not a plea bargain.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say a couple of things here. No. 1, you have a point that our system is overloaded. You know why? We`re throwing in a lot of people to prison for nonviolent drug offenses.

EIGLARSH: That I agree with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Which we should really get rid of. We should either legalize drugs, which I believe in, or at the very least, give people who have drug problems treatment. You don`t solve addiction by locking someone up.

EIGLARSH: Absolutely. Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Then we have a lot of space left for cretins like this.

And one of the reasons that you`re saying he could have gotten the max in ten years -- Wendy, I think you know this, he could have gotten 30 years if they had actually charged him with attempted murder, assault, attempted rape. But they didn`t.

EIGLARSH: There`s a reason why they didn`t. Hold on!

MURPHY: Now wait. Now you let me respond. You let me respond.

He was originally charged with serious crimes that he faced 30 years on. The prosecutor, Paul Finst (ph), who by the way, now represents accused rapists as a defense attorney 00 I`m not saying he shouldn`t, but let`s keep that in mind. He gave him a double discount. He dumped a bunch of the charges so the max was no longer 30, and by getting rid of the serious charges, that`s what created the max of almost 11.

Then he gave him another discount by letting him plead to five. So you don`t think he deserves to take heat for this? It`s all about him.

And one of the things we need to do, you want to rise up, you want a revolution? People should mobilize about who they`re electing as district attorneys, and start voting for prosecutors who won`t give out discounts. We have never done that in this country.

EIGLARSH: I can`t -- I can`t yell as loud as Wendy Murphy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s have a dialogue. Hey, guess what? Here`s the other thing.

EIGLARSH: Yes. I can`t yell as loud as she can, and we are all very emotional, because this was a tragedy. I`m a father. This is a horrible thing to take place.

However, each case has a certain level of evidence. Not every case is perfect. For Wendy Murphy to suggest that she knew the significance of evidence in the case, and to suggest that this guy -- this prosecutor, along with the judge, somehow threw in the towel and gave this guy...

MURPHY: The expert said he was a danger who would rape again. You...

EIGLARSH: Another expert...

MURPHY: ... when the expert says he will rape again.

EIGLARSH: Wendy, there was another -- there was another expert.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it! Everybody stay right where you are. We`re going to get some answers. We`re demanding change.

Chelsea King, guilty of nothing more than going for a jog. Now she`s dead. If things don`t change, whose daughter will be next?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see the sympathy you have for her! I can see it in your eyes. Yes, you`re in this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) neighborhood. Get out of here!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer, can you get them to step away from us? They`re bugging us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re scum, because you`re sitting there protecting somebody who`s killed an innocent girl!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is a lot of rage against John Gardner. Somebody painted a chilling warning on the suspect`s mother`s garage door. They wrote, "Chelsea`s blood is on you. Move out!" And two men came and painted over those words. And as you just heard, there was an altercation, an ugly altercation outside the suspect`s mother`s home.

Here is my big issue. Let us take that rage and channel it into something positive, so that we can achieve freedom from fear. OK? That`s the most important freedom of all. Freedom of speech and religion and all of the other freedoms mean nothing if we are living paralyzed with fear, afraid that our daughters and our sons won`t come home from school because they`ve been kidnapped. We need to get our most basic freedom back, the freedom from fear.

Nancy in California, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Yes, ma`am. I was thinking we start -- we need to start giving our kids more proactive ways of doing things, such as not running with partners, not letting them out after dark. Even a run with a dog. Or anything. Maybe wearing emergency buttons or something.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. Michelle Sigona, I thought I heard Michelle Sigona trying to jump in there.

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No, it was actually Dr. Robi Ludwig.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Robi Ludwig.

LUDWIG: Yes. Well, here`s -- here`s what we know. And some of the studies reveal then, when we actually catch a sex offender, it`s not like it`s the first time that they`ve ever done something as horrendous as this horrible sexual act. Very often, the people who are caught have at least three previous sexual acts that they have not been caught for.

So if we don`t have enough room in the prisons, or judges want to let these people go and they`re not amenable to treatment, let`s consider chemical castration, or actual castration to reduce their tendency to have this compulsion. If the court system can`t do anything about it, then let`s call a spade a spade and -- and up the ante a bit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, you know what?

LUDWIG: What do you think, Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am a humane person, and I never really want to talk about violence to another human being, but at this point...

LUDWIG: This is not about a human being. You know, these are like rabid animals.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please don`t call him an animal! OK.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: When he goes across that line, and is you do this kind of horrific thing, we have to stop feeling sorry for them. They should have zero rights at that point, except for the brave (UNINTELLIGIBLE).


BROWN: They do not need -- rehabilitation, forget it. They don`t deserve rehabilitation. They won`t accept rehabilitation, and they won`t be rehabilitated. Why do we waste our time? Let`s rehabilitate -- how about those victims who never get any attention?

You know, Sister Prejean, who goes huggy, huggy, kissy, kissy at the - - in the prisons, poor little death penalty guys that are going to their deaths, where was she when the victim was being tortured and raped on that path? Where was she with that family, to be with them, to help them through their suffering? No, she`s over there kissing up to the prisoners, who don`t deserve our love and caring. They have become nonhuman.

MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Two quick points. First point is, is that I firmly believe, and this is my own personal belief, is that if you harm a child, and you are a convicted sex offender, you should be put behind bars for life. I agree with you on that, no parole. No. 1.

No. 2, to be active in your own communities, folks. You can get out there, be the head of your community. You can start pulling off these predators.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to be all in the movement. Hang on. More after the break.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, we`re looking for answers. How many more women have to die before we rise up against junk justice? America`s women and children shouldn`t have to live in fear. Moms and dads shouldn`t have to worry if their precious child could be next.

This is an ISSUES call to action. We can`t continue to treat these brutal murders as "business as usual". Women must break free from their scroll burqas, join together and demand freedom from fear.

Tonight, outrage over the murder of beautiful 17-year-old Chelsea King; the straight-A student, long-distance runner and musician, and wonderful daughter went for a run in the park and never returned.


SHERIFF WILLIAM GORE, SAN DIEGO COUNTY, CA: The body was found in an area shortly -- or not far from where we had previously discovered a piece of evidence, a shoe. It was about 15 -- 10 to 15 feet away from a tributary that leads down to the lake. And it was covered in a shallow grave.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The sex offender who allegedly killed Chelsea was connected, say cops, by semen found in the victim`s underwear. Cops are also saying tonight that this same predator -- and he is a convicted sex offender -- is being investigated in a total of seven attacks on women and girls. Seven attacks.

Why wasn`t this predator stopped? Why was he given five years in 2000 for pummeling and molesting a 13-year-old girl?

People are angry. Phone lines lit up. Cheryl, North Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am.

CHERYL, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): First, Jane, I think you are fantastic for advocating for kids.


CHERYL: I really, really do. My daughter, who is a special needs daughter at the age of 16 was raped and it took us a year-and-a-half to find out by the lie detector test that he did molest and rape my daughter. And he only served three years, Jane. Only three years. They did not charge him with rape and just charged him for molesting a child. And he was 40 years old.


CHERYL: And then I found out through the lie detector test that he has molested 10-year-olds and little boys.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m so sorry, Cheryl. And we`re going to try to use your story to make a change. And Cheryl, watch our show, because we are going to be giving people at home a way to get involved in our "Freedom from Fear" movement, through Internet, through Facebook we are creating a movement. We`ve got to gather together and get strong to have a nonpolitical TEA party movement that demands a change to our junk justice system.

Lynn Stuart, reporter in San Diego. We have been debating why the prosecutor didn`t demand and prosecute John Gardner to the fullest extent of the law back in 2000. Your thoughts.

LYNN STUART, REPORTER, XETV SAN DIEGO: Well, Jane, today we gave the case -- all the paperwork that was in the file to a criminal attorney. He`s been in the business for three decades and he is baffled, as well. He looked at all of the documents, of course, not everything available to the case is in there.

But he said just looking even the charges they dropped, that Gardner could have spent eight years in jail if they just would have not allowed him to serve the terms concurrently. They said as well they dropped some of the most serious -- more serious of the charge, the forcible rape charge.

You can see in the documents, it says that Gardner actually hit the girl so hard that she thinks she blacked out. So he wasn`t just molesting her, he was beating her as well. But you never see that when you look at his evidence on the Internet, saying that he was a child molester, that he also actually was very forcible with her.

And when we looked at the documents, the attorney said that the - - at the time the prosecutor -- prosecutor, rather, was David Hendren (ph) and he is now the chief of the sex crimes and stalking unit here with the district attorney`s office in San Diego. And they said he made a compelling argument that Gardner was the type of person who would actually offend again and was dangerous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s the thing that doesn`t make any sense. And I`ll go back to Dr. Mark Kalish for this. This document that is filled with the horrific attack where he pummels this 13-year-old girl, lying on top of her, his erect self rubbing against her, to the point where she ran off with one shoe and threw up at a neighbor`s house because she was so upset, this document was created by the prosecutor. It`s the people sentencing memorandum.

They`re the ones who gathered all of the information. But apparently, they weren`t reading their own report, doctor.

DR. MARK KALISH, PSYCHIATRIST: It`s a mystery. Looking at the defense`s own psychiatrist, he writes, "The patient, Mr. Gardner, also remains preoccupied with the crime against females." He writes, "Judgment and insight into the current psychiatric problems are considered impaired."

This is no mystery. The red flags are everywhere. They did the expedient thing, to get a conviction without going to trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To save money. And this is what -- sometimes it`s -- I know that the prosecutor said it was to spare the 13-year-old victim --

KALISH: Come on --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- the trauma of testifying.

KALISH: We have trauma therapists. We have victims` advocates. We have social workers. They would have been there to help this child through trial. They never even tried. They never considered it.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Jane, can I say something about that?


MURPHY: Can I say something about this? You want to talk about revolutionary ideas and ways of making the system more accountable, one thing we need to do, and I read about this in my book is stop saying, "We are giving the guy a discount to save the child from the burden of testifying."

The research shows that we should be encouraging and sometimes even, yes, forcing children to testify, because those kids, the studies are out there, do better in the long run than the ones we save from the trauma of the system. Those kids don`t do so well.

How do you think that little girl feels right now that the D.A. is blaming her, saving her from testifying, and enable this guy to get out and rape and kill again? How do you think that child feels?


MURPHY: She feels terrible. And it`s not her fault, it`s the D.A.`s fault; shame on him for blaming her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, it`s an important point to point out Jane, that the judge is ultimately the one that sentences these people, so while the prosecutor made his case, the judge could at any time say, "You know what? I`m going to give this guy the maximum. I`m going to give him 10. I`m going to give him 30, or this is going to trial."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it. We want to say that we called the prosecutor and he wouldn`t comment. This is what really burns me up. And I call it going from junk justice to seesaw justice.

The very same justice system that was so lenient on this monster reached the opposite extreme in the case of the Scott Sisters. 15 years ago, ok? And this is a Mississippi case. They were convicted of stealing $11. And they were both sentenced to life in prison.

Three young males involved in the robbery, took a plea bargain. And they got just ten months. Again, we are talking $11. No criminal history. Nobody was hurt. And the Scott sisters are locked up for life -- for their entire lives.

And this guy is convicted of pummeling and molesting a 13-year- old girl, and basically shattering her life, and he gets five years? Oh, explain that Mark Eiglarsh.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I can and here`s how I`ll define it. You know, Aristotle defined justice as like cases being treated alike. We know for a fact that that doesn`t happen. There are miscarriages of justice in our system. And all I`ll tell you is that the prosecutor in this particular case, who none of us have heard from, has his reasons as to why he thought the case had either some challenges or this was a fair sentence. So blame the judge --

MURPHY: No, he doesn`t have it. Stop making excuses for him, Mark.

EIGLARSH: Well you don`t know. We haven`t heard from him.


MURPHY: No, you don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.

EIGLARSH: We have rarely --

MURPHY: Stop making excuses for him. He has no reason. If he had a reason --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Ok.

EIGLARSH: We need to make this a big conspiracy, as if somehow now that he`s defending them, somehow at the time he wanted to see someone go out and rape and kill again is not being realistic. I just don`t think that that`s fair.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen -- let me just say -- let me say something.


MURPHY: It`s his fault, Mark. Stop defending him. It is not defensible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to Tony in Oregon, because I think he is going to yell or she is going to yell. Is Tony a guy or a girl?

TONY, OREGON (via telephone): Hey, it is a guy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey. What`s your question?

TONY: Well, one doctor was right. Chemical castration on a monster like him would be nice, but I know the judges, and all of the -- you know, the human rights people won`t agree with it. But I think with a monster like that, it needs to be done.

There`s no -- there should be no justice for a guy like that.

EIGLARSH: The predators still have fingers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There they go again.

Listen, cut -- ok. I have to say that all of this is very difficult, and we`re trying to come up with solutions, and it`s a tough subject. But we`re talking about important stuff -- very important stuff.

America needs to deal with this.

Stay with us. We are just getting started.

Thousands of sex offenders roaming the streets; the courts have no idea where they are. There`s a lot of people responsible. The system is broken. How many more women and girls have to die before we change this junk justice? Ok?

We`re talking solutions. We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM- SAYS.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We need a movement like a non-political TEA party movement so that it doesn`t matter -- Republican, Democrat -- let`s rise. People who care about protecting their children and their loved ones need to come together and say, "we`ve got to fix this criminal justice system" because this is happening all over America, every single day.

UM1: But -- just what Jane is talking about, has been what people are talking about on the streets. We`ve talked to thousands of people who have come out to search who have made that very point. Some people are saying they should be castrated, sex offenders. Other people saying they should be micro chipped.

There were protesters out in front of the courthouse today. And a real sense of anger -- not only despair and sadness about what happened, but a sense of anger that this didn`t need to happen. How does our society allow this to happen?



KRISTEN SPIELER, DEPUTY DA, SAN DIEGO CO., CA: The first count is murder. Attached to that count is the special allegation that the murder was committed during the commission or attempted commission of a rape. The second count he has been charged with is assault with intent to commit rape.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charges filed against John Gardner III in the rape and murder of beautiful 17-year-old Chelsea King. But law enforcement is looking at Gardner -- I lost my seven sign. Here it is -- in connection with possibly seven attacks on women and girls. Seven attacks.

Now, despite the similarities, the mother of Amber Dubois, the young girl who went missing in California last year isn`t so sure that John Gardner took Amber. Listen to this.


CARRIE MCGONIGLE, AMBER DUBOIS` MOTHER: I need closure one way or another for that and (INAUDIBLE) closure itself -- and not that we want to bury our daughter, but we need some closure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, does it feel like to you that John Gardner might have abducted your daughter?

MCGONIGLE: No. But I don`t know if that`s just denial or if that`s - - it`s probably just denial. But I don`t -- I don`t see it, that he did it. I think someone -- I think a different sex offender.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think somebody else may have done it?

MCGONIGLE: Yes. He seems a little sloppy in his -- in what he does.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sheila, the woman just speaking there, is your adult daughter. You are the grandmother of missing Amber Dubois, along with being a trial lawyer. What do you make of the fact that your daughter doesn`t think that John Gardner is responsible for your granddaughter`s disappearance?

SHEILA WELCH, GRANDDAUGHTER AMBER VANISHED FEBRUARY 2009: Well, I have to agree with my daughter. I really don`t think this man is responsible. But I certainly want the investigation to continue because we want to know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So but why -- why wouldn`t he be -- I mean, the police are saying they are seriously investigating him. We don`t know for sure one way or the other. But it was seven and a half miles away where Amber disappeared from where Chelsea disappeared. There`s -- there`s other stuff that has led police to look at him.

WELCH: And if I knew the other stuff, I might change my opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, similar age.

WELCH: That`s true. On the other hand, you see this man is a murderer. And --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alleged. Alleged, we have to say alleged.

WELCH: Oh yes, we have to say alleged but only in court. As far as I`m concerned right now, this man is a murderer. And we have some wonderful volunteers that have spent almost a year searching for Amber, every single week. And we believe that if, in fact, she has been attacked here, we would have found -- unfortunately, found her body by now.

So we retain the hope that sadly, she has been taken in one of the sexual deviant groups of people that sell young girls. And I believe - - in fact, Jane, I think you spoke to this up in Portland recently.


WELCH: That it`s become a huge dilemma in the United States. People like to think its other countries. But it`s here in the United States. I believe a $44 billion industry in taking and selling young girls.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re absolutely right. And I did attend that northwest conference against child trafficking. And I understand your hope, that Amber is somehow alive and was trafficked. But investigators believe that she has a lot of similarities to Chelsea.

Now, let`s ask this question. Did Chelsea`s killer have a type? Listen to this from NBC.


CLINT VAN ZANDT, NBC CRIME ANALYST: This appears to be a preferential predator, someone with a lengthy -- at least perhaps a ten- year history of crimes of assaults against women who has -- who had a perfect victim in his mind. This was someone who also appeared to have a stalking ground. It looks like this park in the area around it where he knew, Meredith, this would be a target-rich environment.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Pat Brown, criminal profiler, Gardner is charged in two cases related to attacks on joggers in the very same park. Cops say there were seven young women who may have run-ins with him.

Last Thursday, the alleged rape and murder of Chelsea King, the same day a man in a black sedan stalked a 13-year-old girl as she walked near her school in the community. Authorities say that it was a black sedan parked in front of this guy`s mother`s house.

October 2009, a 16-year-old girl told cops a man tried to abduct her at gunpoint. She gave cops the description of her attacker that enabled them to create a sketch that looks very much like John Gardner.

Gardner is charged with the attempted rape of a jogger last December. She escaped by smacking him in the nose with her elbow. And then there`s Amber Dubois, a beautiful 14-year-old who vanished over a year ago, just under eight miles from where Chelsea disappeared.

I mean, the list goes on and on and we`re not even talking about what he was convicted of -- Pat brown.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Right, right. It appears that Gardner does likes teenage girls, probably because he feels he can control them, either by using a ruse and getting them into his car or his house or by just grabbing them and attacking them.

He doesn`t seem -- maybe he thinks he can`t beat up on older women who are stronger. So he has that -- that victim group. So he could indeed have grabbed Amber. But I have to say, I don`t believe in the trafficking thing. I fear that Amber is not with us.

But there can be another serial killer running around the area. He has a very similar M.O., I mean, the fact is, a lot of guys like grabbing teenage girls. So it`s very possible that one of those other sex- offenders did the same thing Gardner is doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim in Rhode Island, your question or thought?

KIM IN RHODE ISLAND: Yes, I would like to -- I`m a mom of two daughters and my fear is that -- living in Rhode Island and any other state that I`m -- how do we protect our daughters, our children, our love ones from these types of predators?

I mean, he should have never been out of jail. He should have been doing his time. And there`s many cases like this and the judges and the prosecutors need to get together and make sure that these men don`t walk the streets.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And Robi Ludwig we also have to be aware that this guy tried to portray himself as a charmer a little bit. So on the other side of this, we`re going to ask your opinion of his psychological makeup.



BRENT KING, CHELSEA KING`S FATHER: We would never allow her to run by herself. But she`s a 17-year-old girl. So if she chose to run by herself, she did that as a 17-year-old girl. She didn`t do it because her parents said, "Go ahead and run by yourself."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you`re that age, you`re invincible.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chelsea king`s devastated parents. Imagine what they`re going through tonight. Was suspect John Gardner able to camouflage himself and come off as a charmer to some women?

Look at these mind boggling quotes from various ex-girlfriends. "The one person who has made me feel completely safe in this world." Another ex, quote, "Never once have I felt threatened or scared." Quote, "I practically had to force myself on him and he even knew I liked him."

Dr. Robi Ludwig, is this the sign of a true psychopath, or sociopath, the ability to appear harmless?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. A lot of these men are very charming because it works and it lures these women in. And very often, these kinds of dangerous sexual predators have very bizarre and dangerous sexual fantasies that they play out, and they get off on the power. So they`re very clever in terms of going in for the kill, so to speak.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen to a woman who talked to CBS about her sister who was attacked this past December jogging in the very same park where Chelsea was later raped and murdered while jogging just last Thursday.


KAYLA MONCAYO, SISTER ATTACKED WHILE JOGGING: He`s shaking her, yelling at her, "Shut up, shut up." And she`s screaming and she just came in and smashed him in his nose with her elbow.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this is what really gets my goat. I don`t like that phrase. Let me rephrase it. I`m upset about this. Police never got a suspect sketch from the victim of that December attack. Explaining oh, she went home to Colorado.

So what? Police couldn`t contact her in Colorado. How about using Skype? Here at ISSUES we use Skype all the time.

BROWN: And Jane I have a question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We use it for live interviews. I want to show a little Skype here.

BROWN: I have a question. Why didn`t they have any -- Chelsea wouldn`t have gone running there if she knew women were being raped at that location. Was that information all over the place that women were getting raped in that park?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, there were no signs up.

BROWN: That`s what bothers me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is part of our crazy system. Is that if there is a, oh a coyote on the loose, we have a sign. If there`s falling rocks or a slippery road, we have a sign.

Mark Eiglarsh, but if a guy has attacked a woman and tried to rape her and she punches him in the nose and gets away, no sign.

EIGLARSH: I don`t disagree with you. So let`s put up signs and thanks to you, we`re now making the public aware of these issues. And that would mean also that prosecutors should be prioritizing these types of predators and some of these other nonviolent offenders who they`re spending time, resources, trials, judges, focusing on. Perhaps they should use those valuable resources towards these guys.

MURPHY: Hallelujah, I agree with Mark. Wow, mark that down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark, that`s wonderful.

EIGLARSH: I knew you would come over.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to give the last 20 seconds to Sheila Welch, Amber Dubois`s grandmother. We pray Sheila that your precious granddaughter is founds alive.

SHEILA WELCH, AMBER DUBOIS` GRANDMOTHER: I just think that your readers or your viewers need to know that Amber was not isolated. She was not taking a run. She was in front of her high school. There were hundreds of children present at the time she went missing. They have to be aware all the time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much. We want you back. We can`t let Chelsea`s murder be for nothing. This case has to be a call to action.

If you want to help, get involved in our "Freedom from Fear" movement, go to Check it out.