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Long Island Mother Charged With Hiring Hit Man to Kill Husband

Aired March 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A gorgeous mother of four treats herself to a lavish day at an expensive salon, gets the works, the color, the blow-out, the eyebrows. That`s right, the Long Island beauty who lived in an upscale mansion was so concerned about her looks, she even planned out the expression she`d fake when cops tell her her husband of 21 years is dead. But after all those beauty treatments, cops show up, all right, to bust her on murder for hire -- that`s right, a hit on her own husband. And now the mother of four, Susan Williams, can worry about hair and makeup in her next appearance -- in court!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 43-year-old Long Island mother of four has been arrested for allegedly trying hire a hit man to kill her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With striking long dark black hair, 43-year-old Susan Williams keeps her head bowed low as she leaves the Nassau County police headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Garden City mother of four has been charged with trying to hire a hit man to kill her soon to be ex-husband, Peter Williams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged hit man was an undercover cop, and authorities say the whole thing was recorded on videotape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Labella (ph), a retired NYPD detective and now a private investigator, was hired by Williams in 2008 to dig up information during her messy divorce. He says she called him out of the blue last month and asked if he knew of anyone who could hurt her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just asking me, you know, whether or not something like this could, you know, be done. And you know, she`s -- was willing to find somebody to, you know, cause some, you know, harm to her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Labella went to the district attorney.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Started out with her wanting him to be hurt, seriously hurt, and then that turned into, I want him gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This led to two meetings with an undercover Nassau County detective who Williams believed was a hit man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This picture is from a 20-minute video when Williams paid $500 down on the $20,000 hit.;

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say Williams even discussed attending her husband`s funeral and how she would react when police came to tell her the bad news.


GRACE: And tonight, a California photographer and "Dating Game" contestant wins the heart of a beautiful bachelorette on national TV. But for years, in a double life, he secretly stalks LA suburbs using the cover of photographer to lure girls and young women to their deaths. Tonight, over 2,000 disturbing photos just uncovered in a rental unit could be the key to an even more gruesome discovery, more murder victims.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please welcome Rodney Alcala! Rod, welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rodney Alcala appears as bachelor number one on "The Dating Game," seen here on YouTube.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was, in game show fashion, charming, funny and suggestive.

RODNEY ALCALA, CONVICTED OF MULTIPLE MURDERS: The best time is at night, nighttime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Rodney Alcala now, convicted of murdering four women and a 12-year-old girl in separate incidents around Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury in the above entitled action determine that the penalty to be imposed upon defendant Rodney James Alcala to be death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now law enforcement releasing over 100 photos of women and children they found in a storage locker that Alcala rented. Prosecutors say Alcala, a photographer, used his camera to gain the trust of young victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rodney Alcala is the reason why we have the death penalty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have raised many questions about possible connections between Alcala and other murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities hoping to determine if any of these people in the newly released photos were victims of the mass murderer.

ALCALA: We`re going to have a great time together, Cheryl! (ph)


GRACE: That is video from YouTube of the killer, Rodney Alcala, on "The Dating Game."

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Breaking news tonight. A gorgeous mother of four treats herself to a lavish day in an expensive salon. She gets the works, the color, the cut, the blow-out, the eyebrows, just before she`s busted on a low-budget hit. That`s right, she wants her husband of 21 years rubbed out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At one point, when the person says to her, Do you want him dead, she says, I can`t say that word, but she nods her head up and down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom of four Susan Williams just finished spending $145 getting her hair done in an upscale Long Island salon when she`s suddenly arrested for allegedly trying arrange her husband`s murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hair was looking good. It looked really fresh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say Williams asked an acquaintance to connect her with a hit man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told her that I could find somebody that, you know, would -- would take care of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the acquaintance instead...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I took all my information to the Nassau County DA`s office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who arranged the sting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Williams agreed on a $20,000 price tag, handed over a photo of her husband and gave the alleged hit man a $500 deposit. That`s when cops slapped the cuffs on the well-dressed mom. Williams`s attorney says the couple was going through a messy divorce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that we have -- that we have tapes on this. What I`m more concerned about is what happened before those tapes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If prosecutors have their way, Williams won`t be getting such high-end beauty services for a while.


GRACE: Straight out to Terry Sheridan, reporter with 1010 WINS, joining us out of New York. Terry, what happened?

TERRY SHERIDAN, 1010 WINS: Well, what happened was -- well, first off, I mean, she looked fabulous in her mug shot.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Stop. Stop. That is your lead? I ask you what happens, and you say, Terry Sheridan, She looked fabulous in her mug shot.

SHERIDAN: No, well, what she tried to do, Nancy, first was, obviously, as you just heard, she tired to hire someone to get rid of her husband. As she said, she wanted her husband gone. She contacted that acquaintance. He went straight to DA Kathleen Rice (ph). They set up a meeting with an undercover police officer.

At that first meeting with someone that she thought was a hit man, they negotiated a price, $20,000. Again, she just said that she wanted her husband gone. They set up a second meeting. That one was last week, on the 3rd. She was given several opportunities, according to the DA, to back out. She puts down a $500 deposit and...

GRACE: Wait a minute. Terry -- Terry, I missed that. She was given several what, opportunities?

SHERIDAN: Several opportunities to back out.

GRACE: To back out?

SHERIDAN: You know, sort of, like, Are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure you want to go ahead?

GRACE: So they cops -- so the cops kind of threw her a bone, the DA, by giving her a chance to say, You know what? This is a crazy idea. I don`t want to do it. I still love him -- just anything.

SHERIDAN: Right, or, you know, We`re going to go ahead with it. Are you sure this is what -- but she wanted to go straight ahead, and that`s what -- that`s what she did.

GRACE: OK, you know, Terry Sheridan, I stand corrected. She looks great in her mug shot, and she should because she paid a lot of money for this.

Out to the lines. Becky in Pennsylvania. Hi, Becky.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I had called you a couple of months ago, before Christmas, asking my mom for your book, and she got it for me and it was awesome.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I just wanted to tell you that.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question for you, though.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if she has any kind of motive behind this. Like, was there anything as far as, like, domestic things going on, like abuse or anything, or...

GRACE: That`s a great question, Becky. Now, it`s my understanding that she claims the husband was abusive and forced her into deviant sex practices that a lot of these claims, which they could investigate anyway, were investigated and were deemed to be false.

What can you tell me, Rupa Mikkilineni, standing by there at the courthouse?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. She alleges her former defense lawyer, who`s now stepped down -- she has a new defense lawyer out here in Mineola. I`m here in front of the courthouse. They appeared two days ago in court and -- with her new attorney, and this new attorney has remained very silent about these allegations. But the old attorney alleges sex abuse, as well as possibly child abuse. But these are unsubstantiated at this time.

GRACE: So when did she make these claims, Rupa? Were they made after she was busted for planning a hit?

MIKKILINENI: No, Nancy, they were made during the divorce filings. She -- yes.

GRACE: During the divorce.

MIKKILINENI: The last one-and-a-half years.

GRACE: So she sat on alleged child abuse claims until it came time to draw the line down the mansion and divvy up the assets. Then suddenly, he had abused the children? Am I getting the picture correctly, Rupa?

MIKKILINENI: Absolutely, Nancy. And not only this, those allegations were investigated by child protective services and the children were interviewed. And they said there was no abuse going on.

GRACE: OK, Rupa, while I`ve got you there in front of the courthouse, she had four children. What are their ages? Do you know?

MIKKILINENI: The two children -- the two minor children that are still living at home are 11 and 16. The two older children I believe are in college. We do not know their ages.

GRACE: So all four of them are of an age where they could speak to investigators. OK, Rupa, explain to me how the hit was going to go down. And who was she talking to, Rupa, when she was trying to plan the expression she`d wear on her face when cops showed up to tell her she was a widow, her husband`s dead? Instead, they busted he. But who was she talking to as she was planning out just how she`d look when the cops came?

MIKKILINENI: She was talking to a Nassau County police officer, who was undercover, posing as a hit man. She believed she was talking to a hit man, Nancy.

GRACE: You know -- to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers" -- very often, when we get a case where a woman kills the husband or kills her children, everybody immediately says, Well, why? What`s the motive? Was the husband abusive? In the case of dead children, they say, Oh, she must have had a mental defect. How about plain old hate or revenge or evil?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think you`re absolutely right, hatred and malice. And often, these women have severe personality disorders. They idealize the man when they first meet him, but then love turns to hate, and they fluctuate between love, hate. They eventually land on hate, which then turns to revenge.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Kristie in Utah. Hi, Kristie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say, you`re such an inspiration as a mother, and a woman, for that matter.

GRACE: You know what? I`m going save that, your call. I`m going to burn a DVD of tonight`s show, and when those children turn 16 and they hate Mommy and they`re dyeing their hair black and they`re trying to get tattoos, I`m going play that and say (ph), You look up Kristie in Utah. What`s your question, love?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is -- well, first off, I can`t believe she was worried about doing a glamour shot for her mug shot.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if there was any allegations of infidelity because I know that is usually one of the reasons that women, you know, get (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Oh, good question!


GRACE: OK, Matt Zarrell, do you have an answer for Kristie in Utah?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I can tell you that the acquaintance that hooked Susan Williams up with the hit man was a retired police detective. He investigated the husband as part of the divorce. He could not find anything to dig up dirt on the husband. He couldn`t find anything.

GRACE: Out to you, Renee Rockwell. Don`t you just love it when your client gets a glamour shot look to be busted by police? She wanted to look just right when they came to tell her she was now a grieving widow. Didn`t turn out that way, Renee.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, but I have to say that she beats all of the expectations. It`s probably the most beautiful mug shot I`ve ever seen there.

GRACE: Yes, well, Peter, I don`t think that`s going to work at trial.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you never know, Nancy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Williams a agreed on a $20,000 price tag, handed over a photo of her husband and gave the alleged hit man a $500 deposit. That`s when cops slapped the cuffs on the well-dressed mom.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hair was looking good, and so was her color and her eyebrows and everything. She looked really fresh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come Susan Williams looked so good in her mug shot?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re here at the New Best (ph) Salon and Spa where Susan Williams...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spent hundreds of dollars on a coloring, haircut, blow-out and eyebrow (INAUDIBLE) just hours before...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would be arrested at her Garden City home for soliciting a hit man to knock off her soon to be ex-husband.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turns out that hit man was an undercover cop. Investigators say several audio and videotapes were made of Williams discussing her husband`s "accident" with the hit man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, she apparently on tape told this officer she wanted not only that her husband to be killed, but she speculates about how cheap it is to have somebody killed. Twenty thousand dollars she thought was a cheap price.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She allegedly paid the hit man a $500 deposit to take out her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She also goes on to talk to herself out loud in front of the officer about what she would do at her husband`s funeral...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was standing (ph) beside her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... what expression to have on her face...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something that I`m sure is going to have a lot of twists and turns on this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and how to cover evidence up and hide her tracks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is certainly not going to play out the way the district attorney believes it`s going to play out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she hands over a photo of her husband, his home address and his license plate number, and says, Do it.


GRACE: This is a woman who had it all. How many people wish, they hope their whole lives that they have a child, much less four children, a mansion in a ritzy area in the Long Island suburbs, beautiful, healthy, can throw money at these expensive salons for a day of lavish pampering? But then she`s not happy. She wants to get rid of her husband.

Eleanor, you know what? Sometimes, I wish I was still a prosecutor.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I know because wouldn`t this be great to flash that picture in court and say, Look what she was doing when all along, she was plotting, plotting, plotting to have her husband killed. She`s a murderer wannabe.

GRACE: Back to Terry Sheridan, ace reporter at 1010 WINS. We all know Terry Sheridan. Terry, I want to go back to the way this went down, the would-be hit. Now, she apparently plugged into an acquaintance that she trusted to get a killer, to find a killer. Now, I can`t think of one person I know that I would approach and say, I want to commit a murder, can you help me?

SHERIDAN: Well, obviously...

GRACE: Who`s the acquaintance? Who does she think is going to go find a killer for her?

SHERIDAN: Well, who knows? It was someone who was working before on the divorce case, but whatever reason...

GRACE: Like a PI.


GRACE: It was a private investigator.

SHERIDAN: Yes, she thought -- she thought she could trust him, but he did what was right and went straight to the DA.

GRACE: Terry, isn`t it true that`s he`s a former NYPD?

SHERIDAN: Yes. That is what I`ve heard. Yes.

GRACE: OK, unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Eleanor Odom, felony prosecutor out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions, and Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta.

You know, back to you, Renee Rockwell. What is she looking at? And why -- why -- would you approach a former NYPD to find you a murderer?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, this guy was working as a PI on the divorce case.

GRACE: Nothing wrong with that.

ROCKWELL: But let me tell you something. Let me tell you what`s going to happen here.

GRACE: OK, you tell me something.

ROCKWELL: OK. They`re talking initially about she wants to pay $15,000 to have him roughed up.

GRACE: Yes, that would have been a waste of money.

ROCKWELL: OK. It`s going to be very interesting what the next play was. If the PI or if the undercover cop says, Well, for an extra $5,000, you can get him murdered, then I see an entrapment defense.

GRACE: Oh, I -- you know -- you know what? You`re making my teeth hurt! Because Eleanor Odom, no way is this going to be entrapment because she`s the one that got the ball rolling.

ELEANOR ODOM: She`s the one all along who`s approaching the person, saying, Got to find somebody to get a hit on my husband. I`ve got to do this. I`ve got to do this. And she tried to -- no way did she even try to back out of it.

GRACE: Never. And they gave her plenty of chances. And Peter Odom, just to top if off, Matt Zarrell just comes in my ear and tells me Williams`s dad is a retired detective with NYPD!

PETER ODOM: Well, if the -- if she approached the police about roughing him up and the police suggested, Hey, you can get a discount on murder, that sounds like a crime created by the police. And Nancy, that`s entrapment.

GRACE: Is that the way it went down, Matt Zarrell? Was she entrapped?

ZARRELL: No, Nancy. She was the one who initiated wanted to hurt him and then wanting to kill him.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Williams is the Garden City mom of four who was arrested Thursday for allegedly trying hire a hit man to kill her husband. Turns out that hit man was an undercover cop.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Susan Williams, 43 years old and mother of four, had two meetings with a hit man. One of those meetings happened right here. But unfortunately for her, the hit man wasn`t really a hit man. He was an undercover Nassau County police officer posing as a hit man. And that last meeting happened right here in Eisenhower Park, just 20 minutes away from Susan Williams`s home, in this parking lot, where the undercover cop met her in his vehicle and had her under surveillance. And she speaks in his car on tape about how she wants her husband killed.


GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst, the director of the cold case squad, Pine Lake PD. Sheryl, thank you for being with us. You know, why is it, it`s always second verse same as the first? Did you notice both the defense attorneys tonight, Renee Rockwell and Peter Odom, they sounded like another broken record -- entrapment, entrapment.


GRACE: It`s very clear the cops didn`t come up to her door and go...

MCCOLLUM: That`s right.

GRACE: ... Can we kill your husband? No. She sought them out.

MCCOLLUM: She initiated it with the private investigator. She initiated the first meeting and then the second meeting with the undercover guy that she thought was a hit man. She brought cash money. She brought the photograph of the ex-husband. She negotiated a price of 20 grand.

And Nancy, another compelling thing, even after all was said and done and the deal was made, instead of going, Mother of God, what have I done, what am I doing to my children, and calling the victim, even warning him, calling the police and warning them, she goes and gets her hair done so she`ll look fabulous for the funeral.

GRACE: OK, Dr. Bethany, you know, murder is one thing, but sitting there cold-blooded, getting your hair blown out, waiting for the horrible news that you`re now a widow, what is that? They didn`t teach my anything about that in law school!

MARSHALL: Well, people who commit homicide have enormous relief after the other person is dead. I mean, they feel like they have reclaimed their life. So somehow, in some sick and twisted way, she felt that if he was dead, her life would be better.



UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the outside, a beautiful, upscale, Garden City home, but inside, police say, Susan Williams, a mother of four, was hatching an ugly plan to have a hit-man take out her husband Peter.

KATHLEEN RICE, NASSAU COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Started out with her wanting him to be hurt. Seriously hurt. And then that turned into, I want him gone.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That`s how District Attorney Kathleen Rice says the hit man was actually an undercover cop and investigators recorded the whole plan on tape.

RICE: At one point when the person says to her, do you want him dead, she says, I can`t say that word, but she nods her head up and down.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say Williams agreed on a $20,000 price tag, handed over a photo of her husband and gave the alleged hit-man a $500 deposit. That`s when cops slapped the cuffs on the well-dressed mom.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As she was led into court dressed in an elegant camel hair coat, Susan Williams looked much different than she did last week in her mug shot. Williams is the Garden City mom of four who is arrested for allegedly trying to hire a hit-man to kill her husband. Turns out that hit-man was an undercover cop. And her family and attorney lost their bid to get Williams million-dollar bond reduced.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Four children hanging in the balance. Two in college, two are still minors, living in the home. Mommy claiming to rub out Daddy after 21 years of marriage. And as she waits for cops to tell her she`s now a widow, she gets a blow-out, a cut and the works at a high- end salon.

Out to the lines, Amber in Alabama. Hi, Amber.

AMBER, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: Hi. I have a question --


AMBER: Two-part question. One, how many years does she plan -- is she going to be facing if she`s convicted? And I can`t remember my second question. I guess it`s just that one.

GRACE: OK, to Matt Zarrell, it`s my understanding she`s looking at about 25 years on conspiracy to commit murder?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: She`s got two charges. She`s got second-degree conspiracy and second-degree criminal solicitations. She does face up to 25 years in jail, Nancy.

GRACE: OK. Let`s go into the mind of a killer. Take a listen to this.


GRACE: Peter, I don`t think that`s going to work at trial.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you never know, Nancy.


GRACE: Peter Odom, I had them specially do a playback on that.


GRACE: She put so much thought and there`s -- can we see Peter Odom? There he is. So much thought and energy into getting her eyebrows waxed, her hair dyed, cut, blown out, make-up perfect, even down to planning the expression she would have on her face when cops told her, your husband`s dead.

So she could fallout, go into hysterics and cry and wail, bend over in abdominal pain. Didn`t work that way, Peter.

ODOM: Well --

GRACE: And my question to you is, she planned out her appearance down to minute details and you say -- that would mean a lot to me at trial if I were on that jury.

ODOM: The jury`s never going to find out about the --

GRACE: Yes, they will.

ODOM: About the pampering that she did. Nancy, that has nothing to do with the case.

GRACE: Yes, they will.

ODOM: Now the prosecutors will offer it because they want to prejudice the jury with things that are absolutely irrelevant. But it has nothing to do with the case.

GRACE: Put Odom up.

ODOM: Let`s --

GRACE: Put him up.

ODOM: Let`s try the case on the evidence.

GRACE: Have you ever heard the saying that winning a trial is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration? I advise you, Peter Odom, to do your homework because while she was at that salon, she yak, yak, yak, yak. Like all she talked about was her dilemmas at online dating. How bad the dating pool was.

ODOM: So what does that has to --

GRACE: That`s going to come into evidence. She was still married.

ODOM: Very doubtfully. Very doubtfully.

GRACE: No. Eleanor --

ODOM: No way.

GRACE: Given him a tutorial about state of mind, course of conduct, plan, scheme, motive.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly and typical defense argument is what you`re hearing here. And look, it is completely relevant. Her actions surrounding what she thought was going to be the hit, the murder of her husband.

GRACE: We`re -- Terry Sheridan and I keep seeing -- Terry is with us from 1010 WINS.

Terry, I keep seeing a black and white photo of her in a vehicle. We don`t have the sound yet but is that taken by the undercover surveillance cop?

TERRY SHERIDAN, 1010 WINDS: That is undercover. Yes. That is being recovered --

GRACE: That`s the would-be hit-man. And Matt Zarrell, clarify something for me. Is it her father that`s a retired NYPD?

ZARRELL: Yes. Her father`s a retired NYPD with a major case squad, Nancy.

GRACE: Oh, oh, that hurt -- that hurt very deeply. Out to the lines, Dorothy in Illinois. Hi, Dorothy.

DOROTHY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Yes, hi, Nancy. I love you. I`m calling you because I really believe this woman perhaps was having an affair on her husband and she simply wanted him out. And she was very selfish to do this to her children -- to want this done and she could have simply went to the police. That`s what I don`t understand. Why would she do that? Why?

GRACE: You know, Dorothy, I suspect an affair, too.

What do we know if anything, Rupa Mikkilineni? You`re there on the scene.

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. We heard early on that she did admit to having an affair, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, there you go, Dorothy. You were right. Go ahead -- Rupa, how did you manage to lead that little tidbit out while you were reciting the facts?

MIKKILINENI: Nancy, this was early on when she first filed for divorce.

GRACE: Not kidding. Go ahead, what`s the allegation?

MIKKILINENI: When she first filed for divorce, she admitted to her husband -- not in court documents. She admitted to her husband, her husband told his lawyers that she did admit to having an affair. He apparently has not. Then he left the house about a year and a half ago. She dropped her filings for a divorce and then he went ahead and re- initiated the filings for divorce and (INAUDIBLE) he did want a divorce, Nancy.

GRACE: To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of L.A.

Dr. Oliver, it`s great to have you with us. Had the hit gone through and say, for instance, the husband`s shot in the back a couple of times, how long would he lay there and suffer as the blood pumped out of his body until he finally died?

DR HOWARD OLIVER, FORMER DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It would have been only a matter of minutes. If they`d hit an artery, it would have been a lot faster. A large vein would have been - - would have taken several minutes.

GRACE: So --

OLIVER: But it just depends on where the bullet hit.

GRACE: So, Miss Williams, the Long Island beauty, was willing to let her husband lay there as the blood pumped out of his body. She first planned to rough him up for 15,000, then find out that hey, for 20,000, I can have him murdered. Well, she`s getting her hair and makeup ready, alright, to show up in court.

We are taking your calls live, but as we go to break, we need your help. The Georgia legislature in its wisdom wants to save money and their idea is to cut one of the greatest programs that ever exited for children and teens. 4-H.

Please, don`t cut such an important program for your youth. You want to save kids? You talk about it all the time, but you want to cut 4-H? It`s crazy.

Please, if you are listening tonight and you care about your children and youth, contact the Office Board of Regents at 404-656-2202 or go online, e-mail



UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Robin Samsoe was kidnapped from Huntington Beach and nine days later her nude and dismembered body was found.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Rodney Alcala is convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to the gas chamber, except a higher court ruled that he didn`t get a fair trial and overturned the conviction. He was tried a second time for the murder of Robin Samsoe with the same results. Guilty and condemned to death. And again, it was ruled by a higher court that he did not get a fair trial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This maniac just keeps living. It`s a little unfair.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now, a new twist. He`s been indicted through DNA evidence of four other members all in Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Serial killer Rodney Alcala is facing the death penalty. A jury recommending Alcala receive the ultimate sentence for the kidnap and murder of a 12-year-old girl and raping and murdering four other women.

Now law enforcement releasing over 100 photos of women and children they found in a storage locker that Alcala rented hoping to determine if any of these people were victims of the mass murderer.


GRACE: Straight out to investigative journalist joining us out of L.A., Rolonda Watts.

Rolonda, it`s great to see you even if it`s just over the airwaves. What can you tell me about this --


GRACE: What can you tell me about this guy?

WATTS: Well, what I can tell you is that police in Huntington Beach here and at the Orange County District Attorney`s Office, everybody is asking for the public`s help right now. Tremendously depending on the public because they have uncovered these 125 photographs, dozens of women and children photographed in strange positions.

Half aware. Police say that they are photographed. Some of them half dressed. Some of them in sexual acts with Rodney. Many of them prepubescent boys and girls. Many of them women.

And police are trying to identify some of these women and children to make sure that there aren`t more victims out there. Right now, they are suspecting that Alcala could be involved in possibly three cases in New York state, five in New Hampshire and then another case in Seattle.

All of this evidence coming out of this Seattle storage unit. And police are hoping to crack this case. They`re depending on shows like this, depending on the public, to call in and identify these folks, to crack some cold cases and put some families at ease.

GRACE: Joining me also tonight, special guest, Tony Rackauckas, Orange County District Attorney. He prosecuted Rodney Alcala.

Tony, it`s an honor to have you on with us. What do you make of this discovery and how did you find out about the storage unit with all of these photos of -- I`ve gone through every one of them. Most of them are young girls with dark hair.

TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE CO. DISTRICT ATTORNEY, PROSECUTED RODNEY ALCALA: This -- this stuff was seized back a long time ago, about 30 years ago, I mean, as a matter of fact, when the search warrant was done of his Seattle storage unit -- and so what we`re hoping is, you know, please, we want people to understand that these are old -- 30-year-old photos but they might recognize somebody, they might know somebody`s missing.

The police have been working to try to identify these people for a long time, but there`s no chance now except the possibility that maybe someone in the public would recognize a loved one.

GRACE: Tony --

RACKAUCKAS: Possibly having been missing.

GRACE: What took 30 years to publicize these photos? These could be murder victims?

RACKAUCKAS: Right. They`ve been working on this during that time as you -- we`re just told that some other victims have, of course, been identified. And the police have just decided that the only way to possibly find out if there might be any other murder victims here is just to publicize these --

GRACE: Right.

RACKAUCKAS: These photos.

GRACE: With me right now is Jed Mills, a co-contestant with Rodney Alcala on the dating game.

Jed, let`s take a look at Alcala on the dating game. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bachelor Number One, I am serving you for dinner. What are you called and what do you look like?

RODNEY ALCALA, MURDER SUSPECT: I`m called the banana and I look really good.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you be a little more descriptive?

ALCALA: Peel me.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bachelor number one?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s your best time?

ALCALA: The best time is at night. Nighttime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say that?

ALCALA: Because that`s the only time there is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only time. What`s wrong with morning, afternoon?

ALCALA: Well, they`re OK, but nighttime is when it really gets good. Then you`ll really ready.


GRACE: That`s video from YouTube. It`s Alcala on the dating game. And with me, Jed Mills. Unbeknownst to anyone who met there -- Jed Mills, co-contestant with him on the dating game -- he had a secret, double life and in that double life, he was stalking women and children and murdering them under the guise, the ruse of being a photographer.

Jed Mills, joining us from L.A. Jed, what was your impression of him on when you were on the dating game together?

JED MILLS, CO-CONTESTANT WITH SERIAL KILLER RODNEY ALCALA ON "THE DATING GAME": Back then, I thought he was a rather creepy, obnoxious, overbearing, and trying to be intimidating kind of a guy, who I didn`t like right away. That`s what I recall. Then listening to his answers that he gave in those days, really a slimy sleaze bag. That`s why I --

GRACE: Well, you know what? I got to agree with you. If I had been that woman asking questions, he would have gotten a rear end full of boot from his answers. What about him gave you the creeps?

MILLS: His attitude. He was very dark and very aloof and he would butt in to a conversation I was having with the other contestant immediately. Not immediately, but occasionally rather.

And he just gave the impression of being wanting to be in control and wanting to her -- wanting be top banana and in fact he even used the word banana later on in the show. So --

GRACE: Well, I was going to ask you something, Ted, because -- excuse me, Jed -- Jed Mills, joining us, he`s a co-contestant with Alcala on the dating game.

No matter what question she asked him, he turned it into something sexual. No matter what -- I mean did they tell you guys to do that? Was everything supposed to be double on tundra?

MILLS: Well, yes. They say they want it to be edgy, they want it to be, you know, kind of sexy, but not to go overboard with it, but they encourage you to be, you know, a little -- not bawdy, but certainly --

GRACE: Yes, well, you know what? He was suggestive to the point of being creepy. I agree with you, Jed Mills.

Out to a special guest joining us, Andy Kahan, director of the Crime Victims Assistant Division there in Houston. He monitors memorabilia sites. These photos of young girls, and there are over 200 of them that were all found in his storage locker.

Do you think they`ll end up on a Web site? A memorabilia site?

ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, CRIME VICTIMS ASSISTANCE DIVISION, MONITORS MURDERABILIA SALES: Probably will, but you know, Nancy, serial killers often keep souvenirs and trophies of their victims. It`s a way for them to keep fulfilling their fantasies. Like BTK kept photos, drivers license, jewelries. Other well-known serial killers, Jeffrey Dammer (ph), and a few others, also kept mementos. Other killers.

Probably Alcala probably used the lure of being a photographer to kind of engrain his victims and trust them before he lured them in their trap. You remember Ted Bundy? How he used to use a sling and then he would drop books, and then ask young women for assistance before he got them in a car and did you know what to them?


GRACE: You`re right, Andy Kahan. And right now, I`ve already got a copy of a hand-written letter that`s for sale right now online he signed by Alcala.

KAHAN: Merchandising and marketing of Alcala.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These were horrendous crimes and during the guilt phase, time was on Mr. Alcala`s side. Witnesses had passed away, were unavailable. Memories had faded. Pieces of evidence had been lost.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very kind. I don`t think there was a mean bone in her body. What`s hard for me is to know that that was the last face she saw in her life. The hatred I have for him actually that he could be so evil.


GRACE: He had a double life. Secretly he stalked women and children throughout the L.A. area. And now police have released hundreds of photos. He befriended people by pretending to be a photographer. They ended up dead.

Ellie Jostad, what more can you tell me?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, one thing to keep in mind while we`re watching this clip of him on "The Dating Game," at that point he had already raped and beat almost to death an 18- year-old girl. He had also murdered two other women. And then he goes on "The Dating Game," Nancy.

GRACE: Please tell me he wasn`t chosen.

JOSTAD: He actually did win. But the woman who was the bachelorette, she refused to go out with him reportedly. She thought there was something creepy about him.

GRACE: OK, Rolonda Watts. It`s overwhelming. I`ve got 200 photos here, beautiful little girls, young women, a couple little boys, some obviously knew they were being photographed, some didn`t. These could be murder victims.

How are we supposed to help?

WATTS: We`re supposed to pay attention. If there`s anything that we know --

GRACE: Show the photos, Liz.

WATTS: I mean -- I think one of the things that has happened in so much time, I mean for 30 years, a lot of these cases have been swept under the rug. But so much has changed in those 30 years.

It was the DNA evidence that actually helped crack five of these cases of the serial killer. And maybe it is this dissemination of information that we have 30 years later that`s going to help crack even more cases.

We have Facebook, we have Twitter, we have a society that`s also a lot more aware of --

GRACE: Right.

WATTS: -- people who are preying on our children.

GRACE: Right.

WATTS: So maybe if you see something funny, you heard something funny, you`ve got to do something. This story is also choked full of great examples of Good Samaritans coming forward. It was a Good Samaritan who saved that 8-year-old girl.

GRACE: Right.

WATTS: Who -- you know, from the very beginning. But I tell you, maybe this new world will help us find folks because we have more information.

GRACE: To you, Sheryl McCollum, what do you make of that as a cold case analyst?

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Well, I`m going to tell you right now, technology has caught up with this case, Nancy. It used to be we only had blood typing.

Now that we`ve got DNA, there`s going to be a lot of case linkage with this. And I agree with Miss Watts. The media will help solve the majority of these cases. No question about it.

GRACE: We`re going to post these on our Web site to further help.

Let`s stop and remember Air Force Lt. Col. Glade Felix, 52, Lake Park, Georgia. On a second tour, also served Afghanistan. Had 31 years of service, awarded the Air Force Commendation, Air Force Meritorious Service medal. First Oakley Cluster.

A physical therapist, helped soldiers wounded in combat. Loved golf, coaching baseball, soccer, teaching in Sunday school, leading Boy Scouts. Leaves behind widow Kathy, an elementary school principal, and six children.

Glade Felix, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.