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NANCY GRACE

George Anthony Mistress Allegation Published in "National Enquirer"

Aired March 17, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year- old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Torpedo to the defense! After reports grandfather George Anthony starts an affair when little Caylee goes missing -- irrelevant -- the alleged other woman insists grandfather George confides little Caylee was killed by accident and it snowballed out of control. So much for the defense claim somebody else did it. Grandfather George Anthony vehemently denying the affair and statement.

Bombshell tonight. After the so-called other woman`s family appears live here last night, denying the story went to "The National Enquirer," less than 24 hours later, bam, her story a major headline. Where? "The National Enquirer." Just how much money changed hands? We also learn "The Enquirer," not police, administers a polygraph. Police first tipped off by numerous cell calls allegedly logged in grandfather George`s cell phone, the woman claiming Anthony hung out at her apartment while claiming to search for Caylee and to look for a job.

She says George Anthony describes Cindy Anthony physically attacking tot mom -- attacking her! -- demanding tot mom be thrown out of the family house over what she did to Caylee. Tonight, is she telling the truth? And if so, what does it mean to tot mom`s trial on the murder of her 2-year-old little girl? Tot mom heads to court tomorrow morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is it true that this story has been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

SKYE BENHAIDA, SISTER OF ALLEGED MISTRESS: I have no idea where that comment came from.

GRACE: OK. So you would deny that it`s been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I`m denying it. She -- this situation here has nothing to do with the money. My sister`s not getting anything behind it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brad Conway, George Anthony`s attorney, denies all the claims this woman is making, says they did not have a sexual affair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve sworn under and I`ve made my statement, and I`ve told the truth. That`s it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was given a polygraph and she`s passed it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the sister. I have had conversations with the sister. And when she`s not in the glare of the camera, she comes off very, very credible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says that investigators came to her on February 18th, according to her, out of the blue. She never wanted to get involved in all of this. Now she`s very afraid of how she will be portrayed, but she said that she never pressed George about Casey and Caylee and what happened.

GRACE: During the whole time she allegedly slept with George Anthony, which he denies, she never once said, What do you think happened to Caylee?

BENHAIDA: No. My sister never did ask him directly that question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says there are a lot of texts, that they texted practically daily, claiming that he was thinking about her and he needed her in his life.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m frustrated and I`m angry.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Settle down, baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never laid eyes on anyone named Zanny that was a baby-sitter in your life?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: The pronunciation, sir, is Zanny. No, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news tonight. A gorgeous 23-year-old mom takes off from her Tempe, Arizona, home by car on a 1,000-mile road trip with her beautiful 8-month-old baby boy, Gabriel, calls the bio dad to tell him she kills the baby, conceals the baby in a diaper bag and throws the baby in the trash. The whole time, Mommy`s trying to give the baby away to an Arizona couple. December 30, cops find Mommy, Miami Beach, no baby. She says she gives the baby away to a couple she bumps into at a state park.

Breaking tonight. Baby Gabriel`s mommy due in court, but refuses to leave her jail cell. Like a spoiled brat, she sits on her bed in her jail cell sulking until the trial judge directs the sheriffs to use, quote, "whatever means necessary" to get Mommy in court. As the state mulls murder charges, she demands her lawyer be fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother of a missing Arizona baby made it to court today.

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, GABRIEL`S MOTHER: Elizabeth Johnson, 7-24-86.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elizabeth Johnson wanted to fire her court- appointed attorney...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to appoint the public defender to represent you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and request a new one.

JOHNSON: When do I get a lawyer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge denied that request.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to (INAUDIBLE) deny the motion (INAUDIBLE) exists.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s playing games.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything else you wanted me to consider at this time in support of the motion?

JOHNSON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-three-year-old Elizabeth Johnson refused to leave her jail cell for a hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She refuses to cooperate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But then the judge ordered deputies to use any means necessary to get her at today`s hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has not been helpful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight-month-old baby Gabriel has been missing since December 26th.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was last seen with his mother in San Antonio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police don`t know if he`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s two possibilities, that she killed Gabriel or that she did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether the child is in a home...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did not want to be a mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... or the child has been taken across the border to Mexico...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t seem like she, you know, really wanted him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the child is at the bottom of a landfill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) question.

JOHNSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to try to find, you know, the information the best we can to try to recover Gabriel, whether it`s dead or alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After the so-called other woman`s family appears live with us right here last night denying the story went to "The National Enquirer," less than 24 hours later, her story a major headline where? "The National Enquirer."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: WFTV reports a month before Caylee`s remains were found, Anthony allegedly told Cruz Caylee`s death was an accident that snowballed out of control.

GRACE: Did he, according to your sister, ever reveal what type of accident it was?

BENHAIDA: No, he didn`t.

GRACE: And when he told her it was an accident, she didn`t say, Well, what happened?

BENHAIDA: No. My sister`s not like that. She wouldn`t ask him.

CINDY ANTHONY: You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not my fault.

CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies.

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s absolutely nothing to find out, not even what I told the detectives.

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Well, you know, everything you`ve been telling them is a lie.

CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony`s attorney, Brad Conway, says the woman and her sister have multiple aliases and he`s trying to do background checks on them.

GRACE: Does your sister have phone records or texts or e-mails to prove the affair with George Anthony?

BENHAIDA: Yes, she does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No longer the stranger in the kidnapping, but now maybe go with the accident and use this woman`s witness -- as a witness to bolster George Anthony`s testimony that it was, in fact, an accident.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The Zanny that my daughter described to me is 24 to 25 years old, about 5-foot7, 125, 130 pounds. She has straight white teeth, long brown hair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor/reporter, there at the courthouse. Mark, just last night, the family of the so-called other woman appears here live. I ask her many, many direct questions. She lives with this woman, River Cruz -- River Cruz -- says she knows nothing about "The National Enquirer" article. Well, you know what? The whole country knows about it now, not even 24 hours later.

MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: I went to the supermarket today, and I saw it myself, Nancy. It`s unbelievable. But in today`s headlines, it was screaming out there that George Anthony telling his alleged mistress, River Cruz, that he knew Casey killed her daughter, Caylee, and that he knew he (SIC) did it in his heart, but he could not just bear to bury another child, meaning Casey, after he buried Caylee. George Anthony`s attorney, Brad Conway, here in Orlando, Florida, telling everybody that he is denying that George Anthony ever had an affair with River Cruz. As a matter of fact, he doesn`t even know her, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, the article specifically says -- and this is in "The Enquirer" that has just hit the stand -- and listen, they know that if they print something that`s a lie, they`re going to get sued. And in this case, unlike a public figure like a celebrity, or you know, a movie star or the president -- they`re a public figure. You can get away with saying a lot more about them than you can a private citizen. In other words, this woman would have a lot more grounds to sue "The Enquirer" if this were false.

The article goes on to say, "George Anthony gripped my hands, turned to me with tears filling his eyes, said it was an accident that snowballed out of control." You know, when you tell a lie and think it`s a small one and then it just keeps getting bigger and bigger -- let`s just -- hold on just a moment.

To you, Ellie Jostad, chief editorial producer. How can it be a small lie? The baby is dead. The baby`s bones were found scattered by animals, with duct tape across her mouth and homemade knockout drug a few feet away. Now, how can any lie about that scenario be a small lie?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, right, Nancy. And number one, I should point out that Brad Conway, George Anthony`s attorney, says he never made any of these statements about how Caylee died. He never said it was an accident. He never had an affair with this woman.

But Nancy, this whole accident theory doesn`t fit at all with what the state`s theory of the case is. We heard in a hearing a while back that they believe that Casey Anthony drugged her daughter with chloroform in order to stop her from resisting while she put that duct tape over her mouth.

GRACE: You know what? I want to second what George Anthony says because out of the whole kit and kaboodle, I always analyzed George Anthony -- this is after many, many jury trials -- as being the most valuable witness to tot mom. He`s likable. He`s believable. I thought the jury would connect to him, as many of us have over the time we`ve been covering Caylee`s disappearance.

This woman also says -- of course, her sister says last night, no "Enquirer" story. Police polygraph, she passed it. Well, here`s the story. It goes on to say that, He says that he knows Caylee died and Casey was responsible. Ellie?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right. Well, again, George Anthony`s attorney says he didn`t make these statements to the woman. He admits that he knew her. This was one of the volunteers that he and Cindy both knew. But he says there`s no sexual relationship and he did not say any of these things to her that she claims.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: During the whole time she allegedly slept with George Anthony, which he denies, she never once said, What do you think happened to Caylee?

BENHAIDA: No. My sister never did ask him directly that question. She was in love with George.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You know, I just had a little analogy of our family. Think of me as the thumb.

GRACE: Does your sister have phone records or texts or e-mails to prove the affair with George Anthony?

BENHAIDA: Yes, she does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... this text, which River says George sent her days after Caylee`s remains were found. It says, quote, "Just thinking of you. I need you in my life."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The times that we were there and George was around, there was no indication that anything like this was going on.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The next finger after that is going to be Lee, and then it`s going to be you, and then the final, that little pinkie, that`s Caylee. Think of your hand. Just think this is us. This is the family that love each other, that cares, and needs to be together.

GRACE: Is it true that this story has been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I have no idea where that comment came from.

GRACE: OK.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The index finger`s your mom. You know, she likes to point, just like Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. But it`s with the middle finger!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I can tell you this, that if Cindy had even got wind of something like this, George wouldn`t be around to talk about it today.

GRACE: Is it true that this story has been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I have no idea where that comment came from.

GRACE: OK. So you would deny that it`s been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I`m denying it. She...

GRACE: OK.

BENHAIDA: This situation here has nothing to do with the money. My sister`s not getting anything behind it.

GRACE: In fact, according to her, she`s lost money.

BENHAIDA: She has. She`s turned over five grand in different occasions to Mr. Anthony, and she has not gotten it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to -- we are taking your calls live. Out to Natisha Lance, our producer who has been on the story. She`s joining us from Orlando tonight, there at the courthouse. Natisha, you have spent considerable amount of time with these ladies, River Cruz, which is an assumed name -- the alleged other woman -- her sister, Skye Benhaida, who was on her show last night. They live together, right?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They do live together.

GRACE: OK. In an apartment, right?

LANCE: It is in a gated community. I cannot tell you if it`s an apartment or if it`s a house. They`ve described it as a house.

GRACE: OK. They live together in a house. Would that be accurate?

LANCE: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Do either one of them work?

LANCE: My understanding is that River Cruz does not work. I`m not sure about Skye Benhaida. However, in the times that I have spoken to her, she has not mentioned anything about work. She -- her day is pretty busy running errands but not anything going to work.

GRACE: OK. Back that up a minute. She spends her days running errands?

LANCE: Yes.

GRACE: What kind of errands?

LANCE: Picking up the different children who live in the house. River Cruz is a single mother of three children. There were some issues with one of her kids the other day, so she was running some errands doing that.

GRACE: OK. All right.

LANCE: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Got it. Got it. But you know nothing about any jobs. Then if nobody`s working there, then how did they give George Anthony five grand? You don`t just go in the back yard and pick that off the pine tree.

LANCE: What`s been explained to me, Nancy, is that River Cruz was writing checks to her bank account for cash and then she was handing the cash over to George Anthony in envelopes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is it true your sister went and took a police polygraph -- the police administered the polygraph -- and she passed it?

BENHAIDA: Yes. She was given a polygraph and she passed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is it true that this story has been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I have no idea where that comment came from.

GRACE: OK. So you would deny that it`s been sold to "The National Enquirer"?

BENHAIDA: I`m denying it. Where -- she...

GRACE: OK.

BENHAIDA: This situation here has nothing to do with the money. My sister`s not getting anything behind it.

GRACE: In fact, according to her, she`s lost money.

BENHAIDA: She has. She`s turned over five grand in different occasions to Mr. Anthony, and she has not gotten it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Correction! It`s in "The National Enquirer," on the newsstands right now. Now, I`m not saying this lady is lying. I`m saying that what the sister told us last night was not correct. I don`t know if the contents of this, what she told "The Enquirer," is correct. George Anthony denies this without hesitation.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, John Burris, famed defense attorney, San Francisco, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle jurisdiction, and William Jay, attorney out of Orlando, who will be attending the hearing tomorrow.

First to you, Anne Bremner. We also learn that the cops first found out about this reportedly -- in the lady`s defense -- because there were numerous cell phone calls to her from George Anthony`s phone. Now, if my father jumps up and has 20, 30 phone calls to another woman, why does he need another friend? You know what? I`m not -- I wouldn`t buy the friend scenario. I`m not saying I buy the lady`s story, either. But if that`s true, that does lend credence to her story.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but they say they didn`t sell it, like you said, Nancy. Great cross-examination last night, which I watched and saw again today. We didn`t sell it. They lived together. And River Cruz -- I mean, I could change my name to what any (ph) tons (ph) of fun (ph). She has an assumed name. And then she`s -- they sell to "The Enquirer." That`s a lot of money that goes to "The Enquirer" to get these stories. And the fact of the matter is, he`s got the paparazzi everywhere, like Princess Diana, and somebody would have seen something at some point over these years of an affair.

GRACE: Well, number one, John Burris, the lady says it was nearly a year. So it hasn`t been over the years, as Anne Bremner tried to just slip in there as if I wouldn`t notice. Number two, it`s a gated community. I don`t think they could just, you know, storm the guard house, the paparazzi, and get in. But she also evaded the point about numerous cell phone calls to this woman.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it sounds to me like this is classically just a hustle on this particular guy. I mean, I don`t know that anything that she said, in any event, is anything other than sensationalism. There`s certainly no evidence that can be utilized in a case...

GRACE: Put Burris up. Put him up.

BURRIS: ... and no evidence that can be used against Casey...

GRACE: OK (INAUDIBLE)...

BURRIS: ... in this case based upon what she alleges George has said...

GRACE: Wrong.

BURRIS: ... because what she has said is that George has made statements that he believes...

GRACE: Wrap it up.

BURRIS: ... but nothing about what he actually knows.

GRACE: OK, William Jay, I assume that in John Burris`s jurisdiction, they have what is called "inconsistent statements." And when George Anthony does, as he will, take the stand for one side or the other, and says nothing -- his daughter had nothing to do with it, this statement will come in as an inconsistent statement.

WILLIAM JAY, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: I completely -- I completely agree. If he testifies differently than what this statement is said to have been from him, the prosecution can put it in as an inconsistent statement, or at least try to. They might run into problems with it being overly prejudicial versus its probative value.

GRACE: BS!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get that information that --

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: From Casey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I`ll finish the question and we`ll get it. And you know what I`m asking and I appreciate it.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I`ve already answered everything. This is not the lady. When I get up out of here I want to walk over to her to shake her hand and tell her I`m sorry.

C. ANTHONY: He just asked me a question how I got it, so I answered it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`ll re-ask it. And I appreciate that.

C. ANTHONY: I guess raise your hand when you`re finished and then I`ll go ahead and know when you`re done.

G. ANTHONY: I will do that because that`s the kind of person that I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About Sawgrass Apartments --

C. ANTHONY: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one. I`m done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just say this for the record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang on.

G. ANTHONY: I`m over this. I`m over you. I`m over all this other stuff.

C. ANTHONY: He`s just like everybody else. They want to cut you off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy, let me --

C. ANTHONY: They don`t want to hear the answer.

G. ANTHONY: You`d better get this over in five minutes. I`m giving you five minutes more of my time. Otherwise --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to the lines, Nancy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Nancy.

NANCY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

NANCY: Well, I have a comment and a question.

GRACE: OK. OK.

NANCY: First is, I think River Cruz -- I know that`s her made up name -- but I think she`s up the creek without a paddle. I kind of have the feeling that since the story`s already in the "National Enquirer" that they somewhere along the line paid her some money trying to get some information from George Anthony, possibly. I don`t think he had an affair and even if he did could care less.

The question that I have is it seems funny that her sister`s name is Skye Benhaida, which happens to rhyme with Zenaida. And I just wondered somewhere along the line if that`s where Casey Anthony got the name.

GRACE: OK.

NANCY: Who knows?

GRACE: You know, Nancy in Pennsylvania, take a listen to what we`re about to tell you. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Wasn`t there an alleged conversation between the other woman, River Cruz, and George Anthony about how she, River Cruz, matched the description of Zenaida Gonzalez, the made-up nanny?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. What she says is River claims that she went to George and she mentioned, you know, this description you guys have given of Zanny the nanny, it sounds like me, that`s what I look like.

And she says that he agreed and he just sort of chuckled. But one thing to keep in mind, Nancy, Casey Anthony gave that description, those very first days that she was arrested, July 15th and 16th. So that was before this affair probably even got going.

GRACE: Now, you have -- speaking of the timeline, you have a problem with the timeline, right?

JOSTAD: Yes. Well, I do. You know, she claims in the "Enquirer" that while she was in bed with George Anthony he told her the previous evening there had been this big fight at their house between his wife Cindy Anthony and Casey Anthony.

Now, remember, Nancy, the first time Casey was out of jail, that was too early on. They couldn`t have been having the affair yet. Based on this woman`s own timeline. So that means that this had to have happened between September 5th and October 14th, the second time that Casey Anthony was out of jail.

However, you`ll remember back then the media was following George Anthony and Cindy Anthony everywhere they went. There were protesters out front of their house. The Orange County Sheriff`s Office was staked out at their house.

They were practically prisoners in their own home. I just don`t see how he could have gone out and conducted an affair then.

GRACE: Well, Ellie -- and this is not to say George Anthony is guilty of anything. You`re a newlywed, Ellie. OK? You`re still in the honeymoon phase.

JOSTAD: That`s true.

GRACE: Men find a way. OK? You think they`re at work? They`re not.

JOSTAD: Uh-oh.

GRACE: OK? You think they`re at the grocery store? They`re not.

JOSTAD: Hmm.

GRACE: OK?

JOSTAD: OK.

GRACE: Word to the wise.

JOSTAD: Got it.

GRACE: Back to the lines, Lakisha, Indiana. Hi, dear.

LAKISHA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call again. And I wanted to let you know --

GRACE: Thank you for calling in.

LAKISHA: I wanted to let you know you`re the hardest working crime fighter on TV, and I love you very much from the bottom of my heart.

GRACE: Thank you.

LAKISHA: I love what you do for t the children. I really do.

GRACE: I really appreciate that. And --

LAKISHA: I don`t know why these people are like this. Why do they hurt their children?

GRACE: And, you know, speaking of children, Lakisha, you`re bringing it back home to little Caylee. And -- hold on, Lakisha. I`m going to throw this to Dr. Jake Deutsch, doctor of emergency medicine.

If this story is true of the so-called other woman, it`s a major bombshell. It`s a torpedo to the defense. That`s the legal aspect. Because if George Anthony tells a mistress during pillow talk that it was all an accident that snowballed, he`s admitting that tot mom was there at the time of the killing.

Is there any way to look at these remains, Dr. Deutsch, and fathom, determine with any degree of certainty if this were an accident?

DR. JAKE DEUTSCH, M.D., DOCTOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE: I think that`s a tough question, Nancy. Clearly, putting duct tape on a child`s mouth is never the right answer and is never acceptable. So I think the definition of accident versus just bad decision-making comes into play.

But clearly, putting tape over a child`s mouth and using drugs to sedate them is not something to be done lightly, and in my mind is intentional harm. So I have a very difficult time imagining that somebody`s going to disprove otherwise.

GRACE: And to Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at Boston University, are we all forgetting that tot mom`s trunk had evidence of human decomposition in it and evidence that the knockout drug, the sedative chloroform, which was banned for consumer use back in the `70s, was in her car trunk?

That is not an accident.

TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Good evening, Nancy. You`re absolutely correct. A lot of malevolent activity here with her. Preplanning. And this looks like a very bad case of homicide here.

GRACE: To Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist, author of many books, including "Love Prescription."

Dr. Gardere, it`s great to see you again. Dr. Jeff, if this story is true that is now on the newsstands in the "National Enquirer," if, if -- big if, if it`s true -- and tot mom has brainwashed, snowed her parents into believing Caylee`s death was an accident, how can they still cling to that in light of the evidence?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": It`s all they have, Nancy. It`s very obvious that George Anthony has lost a granddaughter. He doesn`t want to lose a daughter. I don`t think he wants to own up to the fact that he raised a monster.

And at some point he has to do that. So he wants to believe against hope. It`s wishful thinking on his part that he lost his granddaughter because of an accident. In my opinion, just my opinion, this was some sort of intentional murder.

GRACE: I want to go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who spent time with the Anthonys. He bailed tot mom out of jail before she was rearrested.

Leonard, weigh in. You spent more time with the family than any of us have.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: George was not having an affair with that woman. I don`t know -- you know, what her purpose is. I`d be quicker to believe that Rob was having an affair with Cindy based on pictures that have been published in the media.

GRACE: Hey, don`t go there.

PADILLA: So that didn`t happen either.

GRACE: Please do not revive your crazy, you know, mudfest with Cindy Anthony. We`re talking about something different. I want to know what you think -- you state it as if it`s fact. Why are you so certain that this would not happen? And nobody apparently cares about the affair. That`s irrelevant. What matters is if he made this comment.

PADILLA: There was a lot of people that came up to George on a daily basis. Rob spent a lot of time with him. I communicated with this thing with Rob, and he said no, nothing like that was happening. And while we were there in August, it wasn`t happening later on when we went back in November.

I was not as friendly with the Anthonys after August, but Rob was, and he spent, like I say, a lot of time. Nothing like that was happening. And George didn`t make a statement like that.

I`m the guy that made the statement about it being an accidental death because she overdosed her child trying to put her to sleep with chloroform. George didn`t make that statement.

GRACE: Well, OK. Leonard, I`m not a bounty hunter, and you`re not a J.D., but let me just give you a quick little tutorial. When you drug your child with homemade hooch, OK? Knockout drug. You got the recipe off the Internet. And they die. That is murder.

OK? That`s no accident. Especially --

PADILLA: I understand.

GRACE: What about that syringe, for Pete`s sake? Shooting your kid up with chloroform?

I`m a nervous wreck when I give mine Tylenol. I measure it out, and I stare at it for a minute to make sure I`m doing it correctly.

PADILLA: I`m not contradicting you, Nancy. What I`m saying is that I`m the one that made the statement that it was possibly an accident.

GRACE: You did. I remember that.

PADILLA: I made that statement back in November.

GRACE: Oh, yes, I remember it. And very quickly, Lakisha, what was your question? Quickly.

LAKISHA: My question was I was just wanting to know who knew about this affair besides her sister. Do like friends know?

GRACE: Ooh, I hear a baby in the background.

LAKISHA: Yes.

GRACE: Lakisha, I`m going to answer your question when we come back, Lakisha in Indiana.

And as we go to break, to all of my fellow Irishmen and Irishwomen out there, Happy St. Patrick`s Day from my two favorite little leprechauns. Notice their leprechaun hats. That was early this morning. There they go.

Happy St. Patrick`s Day from John David and Lucy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ANTHONY: I know she`s close. I can feel her. Every night before I go to bed.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They could still argue that the death was accidental.

GRACE: Accident doesn`t ring true based on how she was found. If there had been an accident, why the lies? Why the deception?

G. ANTHONY: I`m doing everything I can. Everything I can to help you and help her.

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: If in fact George did say to someone who he was having an affair with this was a terrible accident, that does not mean he has knowledge of it. It could be hysterical blindness, what he believes in his heart because it`s too horrific to think otherwise.

G. ANTHONY: I would give my life right now for you and for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She never pressed George about Casey and Caylee and what happened. She says that during the course of a conversation where he was actually thanking her for that.

She says during the course of thanking her for not pressing him about that issue that he told her it was an accident that snowballed out of control.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s all this smoke. There`s all this mess. There`s all this noise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is that George made this statement that the child was dead --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s answer Lakisha in Indiana`s question.

To you, Natisha Lance. Other than these two ladies, the alleged other woman and her sister, who if anyone knows about the affair? I know that the other woman, River Cruz was caught on tape leaving the offices of the Orange County Sheriff`s.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You`re right, Nancy. The sheriff`s office does confirm that they have interviewed River Cruz. However, they are not confirming anything as far as this alleged affair goes.

River Cruz says that the security at her complex does know about George Anthony making frequent stops in and out to her residence. And she also says they have a surveillance camera and also when different cars come in they write down the license plate.

So if George Anthony was visiting her on a frequent basis, they would have a record of that.

GRACE: Another thing, Mark Williams, in this article in the "Enquirer," usually the "Enquirer" will get all the photos, all the texts, all the cell phone photos. They have the one photo of them together that we have, which was taken in a public forum. It was a vigil of sorts for little Caylee on what would have been her fourth birthday.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: And Nancy, yes, that`s the one that you keep showing. Supposedly, the sheriff`s office found out about this alleged affair when they went through George Anthony`s cell phone and they connected River Cruz through his cell phone to her cell phone, and that`s why they called her in.

They interviewed her over a two-day period of time about five hours each day, Nancy.

GRACE: Another thing I find in this article, Ellie Jostad, is that she claims George Anthony never went looking for Caylee? He spent most of his time with her? Even when Cindy thought he was out looking for work?

JOSTAD: Yes. That`s exactly what this woman said. And you know, she also claims that he spent the money that she gave him, that he spent it on going out drinking and just hanging out and that`s why she broke up with him.

But Brad Conway, George`s attorney, says, you know, this woman may have donated $20 here and there to the search effort but she never gave George these thousands of dollars, never gave any money directly to George.

GRACE: Ellie, don`t you recall at the very beginning that George would -- George Anthony, grandfather George, would get in his vehicle and had like a billboard on top of it with Caylee`s picture.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: And he would just go driving around, just hoping somebody would see that. But this article, she says, the other -- alleged other woman says, "I told him he never went looking for her."

I just don`t believe George Anthony would not go looking for Caylee. Even if he knew it was going to be fruitless. I think that he looked for Caylee.

JOSTAD: Well, and it`s kind of a strange dichotomy here because she`s saying that she met him in a search tent that he set up in the parking lot of a grocery store. And like you said we knew he was driving all over Florida doing this.

But then on the other hand she`s claiming he didn`t look for Caylee so it`s hard to tell the truth.

GRACE: And look, Ellie, I may be the one a week from now with egg on my face when she comes out with all these photos of her and George there in her home. You know -- I don`t know. In compromising positions. I don`t know.

But it seems to me that every time I`ve read an "Enquirer" story and they get an account, a firsthand account from the other woman, they`ve got all the text messages, they`ve got all the pictures, they`ve got it all. It`s not here.

JOSTAD: Right. You`re right. And that`s the point you brought up yesterday. If she does have more incriminating text messages and photos, why not release those?

GRACE: Yes, bring it on.

To Shirley in Kentucky. Hi, Shirley, what`s your question?

SHIRLEY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: I have a question and a comment. OK?

GRACE: OK. OK.

SHIRLEY: OK. Why is it that older men like George always go toward a woman like River that is young enough to be their daughters? And they`ll deny it all the time, oh, no, no, no, but it always comes out that they did.

And my comment is, how in the world can you go on a cruise, because I know I can`t, on a cruise when your house is being foreclosed like George and Cindy`s is?

GRACE: OK, Shelly in Kentucky, you are absolutely right. And as to why the men go after women half their age, simply because they can. OK? There you have that.

But back to you, Ellie, on the cruise. What do you know about how much the cruise cost and the house foreclosure?

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: What do we know?

JOSTAD: Well, George and Cindy Anthony have hired an attorney to try to help them mediate this foreclosure process. They say that the cruise was a very inexpensive cruise and that it didn`t really come out of their savings.

GRACE: To the lawyers, William Jay, Orlando, John Burris, San Francisco, Anne Bremner, Seattle.

Anne Bremner, the likelihood is, if this woman is telling the truth, this statement will come in at trial as an inconsistent statement by grandfather George Anthony. How badly will it hurt the defense?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But Nancy, I think that you have to think that he`s going to come up and say something that`s inconsistent. He may just come in and say I don`t know anything, my daughter told me nothing, and then it doesn`t come in.

GRACE: OK.

BREMNER: If it does -- but if it does come in, you know what? The affair is important. She`s lying about the affair --

GRACE: John Burris, agree or disagree?

BREMNER: She`s lying about other things.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think the statement comes in because he has no foundation for that statement. He has to have some basis to believe that he knows something, unless he got it from her, he has no basis from it. And so I don`t think it comes in. I think the judge wouldn`t --

GRACE: And what about it, William Jay? How bad will it hurt the defense?

WILLIAM JAY, TOT MOM FMR. BOYFRIEND`S ATTORNEY, FMR. PROSECUTOR, ATTENDING HEARING TOMORROW: It`ll hurt the defense a bunch, but then you`re going to open up a new little mini trial about the credibility of a woman who is claiming he made the statement. And you know, as you`ve been talking about the last 24 hours, there`s credibility problems.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, MOTHER OF MISSING BABY GABRIEL: When do I get a lawyer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?

JOHNSON: When do I get a lawyer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven`t forgotten you. I will be back to talk to you. Was there anything else you want me to consider at this time in support of the motion that you filed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to respectfully deny the motion and affirm the appointment of counsel as it exists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This morning, baby Gabriel`s mommy refuses to come out of her jail cell for a court hearing. The judge orders the sheriff to get her to court using whatever means necessary.

What happened, Michael Board, joining us with WOAI Newsradio?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, Nancy, San Antonio Police here, they`re the lead investigative agency. They have been heading up this case. They`ve repeatedly -- they begged, they pleaded to meet with Elizabeth Johnson, ask her questions, figure out what happened to her beautiful little baby boy, to make sure he`s safe.

Well, Elizabeth Johnson doesn`t like that police are asking questions. So when her attorney relays these questions, she wants her attorney fired. The judge today in court has put Johnson in her place. The defense attorney he said is not fired.

The judge -- he really tries to be nice to Elizabeth Johnson, explain to her that what her attorney is doing for her is actually what`s best for her. All Elizabeth Johnson did there was sit there and sulk like a spoiled little brat.

She`s self-centered, all the stuff we`ve heard about her actually proving to be true in court today, Nancy.

GRACE: Michael Board, joining us, WOAI, not a word from her in court about baby Gabriel. Not one word.

Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, what more can you tell me?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, the judge also had a number of other motions to consider, including granting or denying a motion to bar cameras from the courtroom, which means we could see Elizabeth Johnson`s trial on camera.

Another thing that they rejected is they rejected -- they allowed Elizabeth Johnson to not have to attend anymore court hearings except her trial. She has refused in the past to leave her jail cell. That`s why they forced her out today.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Jenny in Georgia. Hi, Jenny.

JENNY, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

JENNY: I just wanted to say, you do absolutely great. I watch you all the time. God bless you and your children.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

JENNY: I just wanted to say, I don`t understand -- this girl is not helping. We know something happened to her child. She`s not telling anybody, she`s not talking. What can someone like in your -- as a prosecutor -- what can we do to get the truth?

GRACE: Do you think, Dr. Jeff Gardere, we`ll ever get the truth of her?

GARDERE: I think eventually the truth may come out. But at this point she`s acting like a brat. This is a young woman who is narcissistic, immature, and she won`t cooperate, and I think part of that is because of the guilt she`s experiencing.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Johnny Strong, Waco, Texas, killed Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Purple Heart. Wanted to be a Marine since he was 9.

Loved bowling, computer games, movies, dreamed of being an engineer, and starting a car club. Leaves behind mother Jacqueline, grandparents Minerva and Eldorf (ph).

Johnny Strong, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END