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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Teen Charged for Violent Attack on Girl; Witness: Jackson`s Doctor Hid Evidence Before Calling 911
Aired March 23, 2010 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, gut-wrenching teen violence out of control. A 15-year-old boy is accused of brutally beating a teenage girl, nearly to death. She was punched in the face and stomped on the head. Now a stomach-churning twist. This is the very same school where a teenage boy was set on fire by his classmates. Tonight, ISSUES goes inside our culture of violence.
And seismic new allegations in the Michael Jackson death probe. An eyewitness now claims M.J.`s doctor stopped doing CPR and delayed calling 911 so he could hide evidence and stash away vials of drugs. Is this true? Could these crucial seconds have cost M.J. his life?
Also, head-spinning new revelations in the Casey Anthony trial. Hundreds of new documents just released. Tonight, was Casey asked to mark an "X" on a map, signifying where her daughter, Caylee`s, body could be found?
Plus, disturbing new developments in the Sandra Bullock-Jesse James stripper sex scandal. Jesse`s alleged mistress`s ex-husband is now speaking out. He claims this tatted model was obsessed with Jesse James back when they were married. Tonight, has Sandra finally had enough?
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a truly unthinkable act of violence and brutality leaves a girl in a coma and a boy facing an attempted murder charge. Fifteen-year-old Josie Ratley is fighting for her life in a Florida trauma center. On the left, Josie before the attack. Doctors had to remove part of skull to relieve pressure on her brain.
Josie was simply waiting at a bus stop Wednesday when a 15-year-old boy unleashed a truly savage assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEXTON SPENCER, WITNESS: He came out and he slammed this girl`s head into the concrete. And he did it repeatedly, then he started kicking her and punching her in the head. It was painful just to see all the blood gushing out of her head. It was nasty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, police say Josie sent the suspect a text message that set him off. So what? There`s no excuse for violence like this. I don`t care what kind of text message. We`re going to talk about that in a second.
Police arrested a second suspect, Josie`s 13-year-old so-called friend. She allegedly led this boy right to Josie knowing, say cops, he planned to beat her up. Some friend.
Here`s Josie`s heartbroken, devastated mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILDA GOTAY RATLEY, VICTIM`S MOTHER: I don`t sleep very much. And I just want the way things were. You know, I mean, I want things back to normal. I don`t know if that`s ever going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor woman. She has to be sedated now.
And get this: these kids attend the same middle school as Michael Brewer, the teenager set on fire, allegedly by his classmates last fall. Let`s wake up, people. This sickening trend is not limited to one community.
I am taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586- 7297.
I want to welcome my fantastic expert panel: clinical psychiatrist Dr. Dale Archer; criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky; Rick Freeman, the attorney for Josie`s family. And we are very honored to have tonight Linda Sarmiento, Josie`s aunt.
Linda, we start with you. Thanks so much for joining us.
LINDA SARMIENTO, VICTIM`S AUNT: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This hideous violence is mind-boggling, and our hearts go out to your family.
SARMIENTO: Thank you, Jane. Thank you for having me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you for being here. What`s the latest on your niece`s condition?
SARMIENTO: Well, the latest is status quo. She hasn`t changed much. They did take her off of medication that keeps her paralyzed. And the only life that we`ve received from her was the coughing, and that`s it. You know, we`re just waiting. Waiting, waiting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is the impact of the reports that part of her brain had to be removed or part of her skull? Could you clarify that?
SARMIENTO: Well, I`m not a doctor, but my understanding is this. that her left side, there is a sign of some damage, probably to her right arm, hand, and maybe some speech impediment. And that`s all we know. We don`t know the extent of it at this point, because it -- as I said, she`s medically -- in a medically-induced coma. So we can`t get any more out of her until she actually comes out of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so mind-boggling that a 15-year-old suspect could allegedly do this, be so vicious.
Now, police say that this suspect was upset by a text message Josie sent him about his older brother. The older brother, a 30-year-old, committed suicide last October, the day before the suspect`s birthday. The suspect`s attorney says the boy found his brother, the body, hanging from a tree outside a church.
So I want to be clear right here: there is no excuse for violence. That explanation is a crock. No one deserves the kind of beating Josie endured, no one. This is vicious, sadistic behavior. We mention these facts, because we`re trying to lay out the story and understand what happened. And that`s the only reason we lay that out.
Attorney Rick Freeman, you represent the family. Tell us, in your mind, what happened? What caused this?
RICK FREEMAN, ATTORNEY: What happened is what we`ve been talking about since last Thursday when I came onto the case. And what caused it starts at home. And what caused it is what is lacking in so many homes around this community and communities around the state and communities around the country.
And that is people are so busy. Mom works; Dad works. Everybody is off doing their own thing. We don`t sit around the kitchen table anymore. We don`t listen to what`s going on, and we don`t talk to our children. And we don`t have serious discussions and conversations with our children so they can communicate with us and we can communicate better with them.
We`ve talked to everybody about this. We need to use this as a teachable moment. You know, we hear about this, we read about this, but we don`t see the face of violence. And you`ve shown the face of violence today on -- with those pictures.
People -- this has to resonate with people. They have to sit around the kitchen table tonight, have a serious discussion with their children and say, "Look what happened to Josie. This could just as easily happen to you. And you need to learn from this, and here`s what you need to take to school tomorrow." That`s really where we have to start, at home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I couldn`t agree with you more. And I have to say that it`s absolutely fascinating to me, in a very sad way, that all the suspects in both these cases -- this case, as well as the Michael Brewer case -- OK, are all 15 years old. This suspect is 15. The boy who splashed Michael Brewer with alcohol is allegedly -- is 15. The boy who set him on fire, allegedly, also 15.
And 15 is an age where we are forming our moral values. And if they are inundated with violence, and they do not gets positive reinforcement to teach them nonviolent conflict resolution, they`re going to have corrupted values. And that corrupted value means violence is OK in their minds.
We`re going to come back in 60 seconds, and we`re going to lay out exactly what happened and what we all can do about it. And we`re taking your calls. Sixty seconds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are talking with Linda Sarmiento, the aunt of Josie Ratley, that beautiful girl there that you see there. That`s the before picture, before she was beaten to a pulp, beaten to the point where she had to be put into a medically-induced coma by a 15-year-old boy.
The cops say that -- they are reactive. They can only arrest the suspect. There`s the suspect. We have blurred his face, but even the cops are saying, "We`ve got to do something about this."
And I want to tell you something, Linda Sarmiento, I don`t want to overwhelm you with violence, but we just got this into our set moments ago. There`s been another incident of violence in nearby Broward County, Florida. A 14-year-old boy pummeled his 12-year-old ex-girlfriend several times in the face, giving her a broken nose. And she had to be taken to the hospital, too.
So we`ve got a -- we`ve got a real problem in -- in that area of Florida. That`s for sure. I mean, is there something in the water there? What is going on in that...?
SARMIENTO: Jane, I don`t know. I will tell you, we are -- we are completely beside ourselves with this whole thing. Because when I think of a 15-year-old boy I think of a 15-year-old boy who`s still riding his bicycle and getting together with his friends, playing basketball, you know, basically, innocent things. I mean, I can`t conceive the mentality that they have today with the violence, you know, that it`s just so easy for them to do what they did. What they did, especially, with my niece.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You mentioned a bicycle. You mentioned a bicycle. It was my understanding that this suspect rode his bike over to the school and that the 13 -- his 13-year-old girlfriend who -- correct me if I`m wrong -- had borrowed your niece`s cell phone to text her boyfriend, who is the suspect. And at one point, I guess, your niece may have texted -- texted something. We don`t know. Maybe it was the girlfriend who texted it. We don`t know. But somebody texted on your niece`s cell phone something to him that angered him.
And this 13-year-old girl leads this boy, allegedly, right to your niece, knowing that he`s going to hurt her because he had texted other friends, "I`m going to break her neck. I`m going to kill her."
SARMIENTO: Yes. Yes, that`s what I heard. I heard the same thing. And it`s -- it`s horrifying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This 13-year-old girl, she`s a so-called friend of your niece. What do you know about her?
SARMIENTO: Nothing, OK? My niece honestly did not have any friends here. My sister and my niece moved here about a year ago. So she`s new to the school system. All right? And she did not meet anyone that she felt comfortable with. So this little girl is just an acquaintance of hers, someone she was nice enough to lend the phone to and became a victim over, you know, an issue where...
One thing about my niece, I have to say, she`s a very sweet, loving, caring person. And I`m not saying this because I`m her aunt. I mean, I would say that she`s an abnormal child in today`s time because of all the violence that`s out there.
She actually said to the little girl, you know, "What are you doing with a 15-year-old boy?" You know, she played mother. And meant no harm by it.
And I -- at that point on, I don`t know what else happened and how this boy got so angered and rode his bike three miles to meet with my niece and do what he did to her. I mean, I would think that for three miles, you would calm down. But he was enraged.
And I -- I just -- my family and myself, we`re just beside ourselves. We just don`t understand it. We`re hoping that this is just a bad dream and we`re going to wake up. And have Josie at home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, unfortunately, it`s actually happening, and it`s devastating so many families across America. Thank you so much. We are praying for your niece. We want her to survive and come through this 100 percent.
SARMIENTO: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we want to come up with solutions, and we`re with you.
Everybody stay right where you are. Teenage violence is out of control. It`s official. There is an epidemic of it. We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, bombshell developments in the Michael Jackson death probe. Was M.J.`s doctor more concerned with hiding evidence of drugs than saving Michael`s life?
But first, a teenage girl fights for her life tonight as we speak. She was beaten and stomped on, allegedly by another teenager, a teenage boy. Why are our teens so obsessed with violence?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARMIENTO: I don`t know what to say. I`m devastated. I just don`t understand what`s happening, you know, with our children today. They`re younger and younger, and they`re more violent. I just don`t know what to say. Why is this happening? You know? Where are the parents to these children? I mean, how are we raising our children?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RATLEY: When she left that morning and didn`t come home, I was told by an officer. I couldn`t believe it. I couldn`t believe it at all. I just -- now I -- that`s my baby there. I still don`t believe that`s my baby there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Josie Ratley`s mom right outside her daughter`s hospital room. She is now sedated herself, because she is so distraught.
Her teenage daughter was beaten unconscious last week by a 15-year-old boy. He faces charges of attempted murder. They have to decide whether they want to charge him as an adult. We say Josie sent him a text about his brother who had recently committed suicide, and that apparently set him off.
We ask did the trauma of his brother`s death make him a ticking time bomb? And if so, what were the adults around him doing about that?
And in California, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hello, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fine, thanks.
CALLER: I love the show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: You know, as I sit here and I watch your program, I watch Nancy`s program, OK, you people really put it out there. But when push comes to shove, all right, are we breeding a race of evil children, OK?
There -- it seems to be no moralistic value left in the family, all right? I mean, when you look at these kids, when we were 15 years old, if you wanted to have a dust-up, you went in the field, OK? You spoke about it, all right?
This is ridiculous that we have to, as parents, OK, of children of our own, look at this on television and say to ourselves, what the hell is going on in this world?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. Dr. Dale Archer, are we breeding a race of evil children?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: No, I don`t think so we are. And I think that if we look at this particular case, this boy, not to make excuses for what happened, but his dad had been arrested 43 times in the course of his life and in prison most of that time. So his brother was actually his surrogate father, and his brother was the stability in his life. When he found his brother, who killed himself, hanging in a tree, I think that he probably lost any type of anchor to society.
But I think the problem is not just in the family. The school systems have to step up and teach more than reading, writing and arithmetic. We teach about safe sex. We teach about drunk driving. We have got to start anger management in every single school in this country to teach kids how to react when they have a traumatic event in their life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you 100 percent.
Darren Kavinoky, of course, the big legal question: will he be charged as an adult? Which means he could spend the rest of his life in prison, and God forbid, if she passes away, which I pray not, he could face the death penalty.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Generally, there`s a question about whether or not a juvenile is a fit and proper subject for juvenile court or whether more properly dealt with in the adult penal system.
I`d like to join the dialogue on another level, too. As a -- as a parent myself of an 8-year-old girl and as a member of my own community, I, too, join in this call that we have a more fierce, honest, candid discussion on a national level. I don`t think we`re breeding killer kids. There`s plenty of positive role models out there. There`s plenty of good out there, too, if you look at it. And my heart really goes out to this family, but we need to focus on the positive and have some discussion about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, thank you, fantastic panel.
Up next, Michael Jackson. Did Dr. Conrad Murray hide drugs?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In tonight`s "Spotlight," explosive claims that Dr. Conrad Murray stopped performing CPR on Michael Jackson and delayed calling 911 in order to hide evidence.
New documents detail how Jackson staffer Alberto Alvarez allegedly saw Dr. Murray performing one-handed CPR on Jackson. One handed? Is that even CPR anymore. You just use one hand?
And Alvarez says he was asked to hold a bag while Dr. Murray filled it with empty vials along with an I.V. pouch, all this allegedly before calling 911.
Dr. Murray`s defense team says it`s all a lie. You lie! That`s what they say. Murray is out on bail after pleading not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.
Now La Toya Jackson believes his brother was murdered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you still believe it`s a conspiracy?
LA TOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL: It was murder. I think someone did it. That`s my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Murray`s defense team says these statements were leaked to hurt their case.
Joining me now, TMZ assignment manager Mike Walters. TMZ all over the story.
Mike, what do you know?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Well, Jane, you know, hearing about the one-handed CPR, I remember when the 911 tape came out. And this guy is a cardiologist. And the guy over the phone, the 911, was saying, "Get him off the bed," because he was doing CPR on a soft surface. So that was No. 1
No. 2, the really interesting part is when he said that he was told to take a white milky I.V. bag off the stand and put it into a bag. And remember, I`ve read the coroner`s report very extensively, and there was zero Propofol found anywhere in the IV connected to Michael`s leg or where it would have been. So we know for a fact, if they would have had Propofol in an I.V. bag, it was removed from the room totally.
And remember, those Propofol bottles up in that closet, somebody had to take them and put them up there. It was in a hidden compartment. Unbelievable claims.
WALTERS: And it does sort of mend everything together that we`ve been hearing and seeing from that room when the coroner`s report came out, how they got where they got from Dr. Murray.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the day Jackson died, Dr. Murray allegedly made a phone call to two of his office workers, asking them to get some items out of his storage unit in Houston.
Now you, TMZ, reported back then that these women removed three to five boxes three hours before the 911 call to Jackson`s house. So Mike, I think some people are wondering what was happening even before Alberto Alvarez walked into Jackson`s bedroom.
WALTERS: Well, totally. And if you look at the time line in the detective`s report where Dr. Murray says here`s what`s happening leading up, he said he gave him shots of different sedatives all night, all night into the morning.
And then the last time at 10 something in the morning, he gave him one shot of Propofol, a tiny amount, 2.5 CCs. We know that can`t be true because of how much Propofol was in his blood.
So does it make sense that these girls were removing stuff from a storage locker in Texas three hours before? I can`t say whether or not there was something in those boxes. We just don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Let me ask you this.
WALTERS: But if Dr. Murray was up doing stuff then it`s definitely going to be used as evidence in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this, quickly. Only a couple of seconds. He says this is an inconsistent statement by Alvarez. But he said something else after Michael Jackson died, and also they`re attacking the leaks. They do have a point there.
WALTERS: You know, I mean, his story didn`t line up the first two times they talked to him. He changed his story. And all of a sudden, he says all this stuff happened. They`re going to attack him on the stand, guaranteed. They`re going to go after that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it there, Mike. Thanks so much always.
Coming up, we`re going to go inside the search for Caylee Anthony. Tonight, massive new shocking details.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, head-spinning new revelations in the Casey Anthony trial. Hundreds of new documents just released go inside the desperate search for little Caylee. Was Casey asked to mark an X on a map where her daughter`s body could be found?
Plus, disturbing new developments in the Sandra Bullock-Jesse James-stripper sex scandal: has Sandra finally had enough?
Jaw-dropping new developments in the case against Casey Anthony: close to 1,000 pages of brand-new documents were released today. There are 11,000 pages already made public, so that brings us to almost 12,000 documents total. And we have gone through all of them.
First, a huge head-spinning development: investigators grilled a volunteer who searched for little Caylee`s body. He says before Caylee`s body was found, George Anthony told Casey, hey, mark an X on a map to indicate where searchers should look for your daughter. Casey refused.
And then her mom Cindy, allegedly got extremely angry. So we have to ask, did George think Casey knew all along where Caylee`s body was.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I got within three feet of my daughter`s car and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this world. And I`ve smelled that odor before. It smelled like a decomposed body.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Plus, the searcher says the head of Texas Equisearch, Tim Miller was there for all of this. And he tells police, Tim Miller said quote, "I almost had her. I talked to Casey and I had a map in the bedroom with her and I had her convinced to put an X on the map of the location of the body. I left the room to give her a chance to think about it. Her father came out approximately 30 minutes later and said, she`s ready to put the X on the paper. But then her mother stood up and said no, get the hell out of my house. I don`t want to ever see you again."
So, we`re going to talk in a little bit to Tim Miller from Texas Equisearch who was there in the room to find out did any of this actually happen?
But first, we`re going to go to our fantastic panel: criminal defense attorney, Darren Kavinoky; as well as former police officer, Marc Harrold. And we begin with "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez from TruTV.
Jean Casarez, there was bombshell after bombshell in these documents. But this X is really the biggie.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Joy -- Jane, it is amazing the immensity of this discovery. But you`re right. And I went straight to Tim Miller`s deposition because let`s go to the heart of it, this is a sworn deposition he did under penalty of perjury.
He says that Cindy Anthony is the one that invited him to Florida. When he got there he realized that they needed to do an extensive search. He got a map, he was in the home and it was George Anthony, a former detective, who really took the ball at that point and asked Casey to try to find and put an X where she thought the search should begin. And that`s when it all happened.
On the other hand -- there`s two sides to every story -- and on the other hand Cindy Anthony and Casey, they wanted to final Caylee alive. So this may have been the first thought that she could be deceased and the reaction was as violent as it appeared to be on this document.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jean, good analysis.
But Darren Kavinoky, I have to ask you. If this is true -- we don`t know that -- but if it`s true, is it consciousness of guilt, not only on Casey`s part, but George? I mean George is her dad. And why would he ask her to put an X on a map unless he thought she knew where the body was.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. If it`s true, it is indeed blockbuster evidence. And it would seem to show or certainly would suggest that there`s some knowledge, maybe an accessory after the fact kind of a theory here.
But the real problem is that all of this appears to be hearsay. And so if this gets denied by George in the trial, we`re not going to get into a mini-trial about the truth of whether or not that actually happened. So this could all get very cut-off when this case finally does proceed to trial.
And my, oh, my, with 12,000 pages of discovery released so far, we can expect this to be an exceptionally complex trial. And a lot of time spent ferreting out whether or not these items of evidence are actually ever going to make it in front of the jury before this thing begins.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You know, it kind of reminds of the Michael Jackson case, where there was so much incriminating stuff that people would say, but it never made it into the courtroom.
KAVINOKY: Yes. That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marc Harrold, I mean, this literally is a blockbuster piece of evidence. But it`s not a piece of evidence if a tree falls and no one hears it, does it make a sound in the courtroom?
MARC HARROLD, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: Yes. That`s exactly right. The one thing about this is it does look like it`s hearsay. Some of it might be able to come in, not for the truth of the matter asserted but just for the fact that these statements were made, present sense impression, statement against interest.
But I`ve got to say, I completely agree. This is big evidence but it would be hard to get admissible in trial. But you know it`s going to come down to a lot of this evidence. They`re going to try to use it if they can.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
There`s other really shocking new evidence that could be a blow to Casey`s defense. Casey`s entire defense, let`s face it, it hinges on the idea that somebody else dumped Caylee`s body in that wooded area near the Anthony home after Casey was already behind bars. Her lawyers argue this, ok? That before this 911 call came in, the area where Caylee`s body was found had already been searched over and over again. And there was nothing there.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY KRONK, FOUND BODY OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I`m in a wooded area down by the school. I need you right now. I just saw a human skull.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, Jean Casarez, that was in December of `08. As we all know, the defense is saying, well -- they searched that area and they didn`t find a body, so that body was dumped there after Casey was behind bars. But today, in this evidence dump, we learned otherwise.
CASAREZ: Well, it is amazing how many searchers, first of all, were in that area. It`s amazing Jane. You hear the searchers. You hear there were psychics that were out there. And we`re talking the area close to where the body was found.
But Jane, you`re right because searcher after searcher corroborate under sworn statement that the water level was so high and investigators took them out there after the fact to say there`s exactly where the remains were found. What was the water like? And person after person said that was water that was almost knee-level high.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now there`s even more Zanny the Nanny madness. Of course, you remember Zenaida Gonzalez. This Zenaida Gonzalez you`re about to see -- in a second.
She`s says she`s never seen Casey before in her entire life. And as we all know she is suing for defamation.
Well, tonight inside these new documents, we learn that there`s a list of more than 150 people she`s going to call as witnesses, including Casey`s parents and former friends and even River Cruz, the woman who claim she had an affair with George Anthony. George had this to say when he was first questioned in the Zenaida case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: I haven`t talked to my granddaughter -- I have not heard my granddaughter`s voice since June 16 of 2008. Do not ask me again, sir, because I will walk out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok.
G. ANTHONY: Do not do that again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I don`t want to make it hard on you.
G. ANTHONY: Yes, you are. Yes, you are. I have a belief in my daughter, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, I have to go back to Jean Casarez. We saw how outraged he was during the deposition. When could he have to be called possibly as a witness in this defamation case?
CASAREZ: Well, you`ve got two judges. You have the judge of the criminal case, the judge of the civil case. A determination was made by the civil judge that this case would not go forward until the criminal case, because this is a death penalty case. You`ve got constitutional rights, it was concluded. So I think it will be awhile.
But the civil case is serious. You see the witnesses they want to have take the stand and you see the interlacing of the criminal and the civil for defamation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is absolutely wild. I mean -- I have to say, Darren Kavinoky, I feel sorry for these two. It seems like George and Cindy are getting hit on all fronts. You have the Zanny the Nanny suit. You have this new information that comes out that says basically if it is true, it looks like both parents -- it could indicate both parents felt that their daughter was guilty and were covering for her.
KAVINOKY: Right, and we remember, of course, George`s suicide attempt and obviously just the toll of this pending litigation has taken on George. It`s been horrible on all fronts, and I can`t even imagine what it would be like to be not only dealing with the loss of their grandchild, but also the horrific notion that maybe it was their daughter that did it.
I have spoken with Jose Baez before, though. And he hasn`t told me specifics, but he`s told me very strongly that there will be some blockbuster defense evidence coming. So stay tuned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so Casey has been arrested quite a few times since little Caylee was reported missing. There was one night in particular that was extremely dramatic.
Take a look at this. This is wild.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby killer. Baby killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, cops lead Casey out of the house.
Now Jean Casarez, in ten seconds, we`re hearing that one of the deputies at one of these visits is very similar to the description of Zanny the Nanny.
CASAREZ: That`s right. It`s one of these multiple pages, but it talks about the description she gave of Zenaida Gonzalez matched one of the deputies at one of those initial arrests.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much, fantastic panel.
The college professor accused of killing three colleagues at the University of Alabama was in court today; dramatic appearance. We`ll tell you more about it in a moment.
Plus, more Sandra Bullock shockers in the wake of claims that her husband carried on an 11-month affair with a heavily tattooed woman, right there. What is the alleged mistress`s ex-husband saying about all of this? You won`t believe it.
And I`m taking your calls on this fiasco, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA BULLOCK, ACTRESS: I just became more selective and had, you know, I have this work before that was my family until I have a family and I realized work became number two. By elimination of certain thing, my work became better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has Sandra Bullock finally had enough? That is next.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
Amy Bishop faces justice. The college professor is accused of opening fire on her colleagues at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. Three professors were killed in cold blood. Three more were severely injured. Cops say Bishop was upset when she got a poor job review.
Well, today, a judge sent this capital murder case to a grand jury. She could face the death penalty. Her lawyer plans on arguing that Bishop is insane.
Now remember, this woman gunned down her own brother in 1986, but it was ruled well, an accident. Not only that, she was also suspected in a mail bombing plot. Those red flags were completely ignored, now three people are dead and three more are injured. Please people, let`s not make the same mistake again.
And that is tonight`s "Top of the Block".
Also tonight, do shocking revelations in the Jesse James sex scandal mean the end of his marriage to Oscar-winning, all-American beauty Sandra Bullock. TMZ reports Jesse and Sandra have lawyered up in preparation for a divorce. Now, Sandra`s reps say she has not met with any lawyers, but that drama seems like a side show compared to the main attraction.
Now it`s Jesse`s alleged mistress, Michelle "Bombshell" McGee, self-described bombshell in the spotlight. Her ex-husband is making claims that she was obsessed with Jesse James way back during their marriage. Listen to this from "The Insider".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANE MODICA, EX-HUSBAND OF JESSE`S ALLEGED MISTRESS: I believe she was obsessed with Jesse James. We had problems during the marriage. My picture is sitting there taped on the mirror and I lifted it and I did a double take and noticed there was something over my face. I got closer and it`s a picture of Jesse James. She obviously had it cut out, pasted over my face and I was like, really are you serious? Then she laughed it off thinking it was funny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meanwhile, this photo from TMZ of Michelle once again, self-described "bombshell" McGee in Nazi regalia. Appears to have torpedoed one of her gig, she has been dumped as a model for the clothing line Angry White Girl. The owner says his company may be politically incorrect but wants nothing to do with any quote, "white supremacy nonsense".
Well, Bombshell can always fall back on the topless pole dancing. Although she might want to rethink that job, too, because her ex-husband, the one we just heard from, he`s now challenging custody of their 5-year- old son. Now this video is also from TMZ.
More shockers about Michele in a moment. I`m taking your calls on all of this. Poor Sandra Bullock. What do you think? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my fantastic panel: Steve Santagati, resident bad boy and founder of BadBoysFinishFirst.com. I can`t wait to hear your take on this one, dude. Rick Richards, communications expert and author of "The Tiger Woods Syndrome". And we begin with Ian Drew, senior editor for "Us Weekly" where the scandal is splashed on the cover.
Ian, what is the very latest?
IAN DREW, SENIOR EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Well, the very latest is as you saw reports came out today that they have lawyered up, but their reps -- both reps were very quick to issue statements saying that that is not true.
We`re also hearing from inside sources that that not necessarily is true right now. They might be thinking that way but it`s a little too early in the game. Sandra is in a state of shock right now, a state of despair. It is not the kind of thing where she`s ready to get her ammunition ready.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I got --
DREW: -- she`s really just trying to sort through her emotions right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ian, I`ve got to ask you a question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you really think that she didn`t know about this when she accepted the Oscar?
DRW: Yes. I really don`t -- because I do not think that that tear- filled speech -- she`s a great actress, not that good of an actress.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now wait a second but she referred to her husband, I remember -- I was watching the Oscars.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And ever since Sean Penn failed to thank his wife, and now I guess they`re divorced. I always listen to the acceptance speech to see if they remember to thank their spouse. It`s kind of like a fun game.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I remember Sandra`s speech, I was listening to this and she referred to him as that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She didn`t say his name, she said something about, oh, it`s wonderful that I have that. And I was like --
DREW: Well -- yes. Of course, in retrospect, I mean, you read into everything. It`s like knowing what we know now and now piecing it together.
At the time, though, I got to say, I was touched. I mean, I really thought she was just sort of alluding to the fact that that`s her life. You know, that that is as she has said the primary focus of what her life has become. And she could have gotten there without that.
I do think that this has been a more devastating blow to everything that she`s gone through and that she gave that moment to him when it was something she had worked for long before he had ever came along. And she almost is looking at this now as a wasted moment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
News of Sandra and Jesse`s turmoil came as a shocker. I mean, this woman is at the peak of her career. Accepting an Oscar for "The Blind Side" and then whispers about the so-called Oscar curse have grown deafening.
I mean Reese Witherspoon, Kate Winslet, Halle Berry, just three examples of gorgeous, stunning talented women who won Oscars and then, you know, there`s trouble.
So I want to go to my resident bad boy, Steve Santagati. What the heck is going on here with these men who have these beautiful, gorgeous women and are allegedly cheating?
STEVE SANTAGATI, BADBOYSFINISHFIRST.COM: Well you know, Jane, Jesse is a bad boy from day one. Sandra is attracted to those kind of guys but she doesn`t realize that this is who she`s with.
Of course he`s going to turn out like this eventually. You know, a leopard doesn`t change his spots.
The big news here though, he was probably affected by her career and bad boys ultimately are damaged goods. Anybody that gets that many painful tattoos on their bodies is feeling something inside.
And he was -- he wanted to be with a woman that he was -- he felt bigger around, he felt masculine around. And he`s obviously into tattoos. It`s no more complicated than that. You know?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Up next: the author of "The Tiger Woods Syndrome" and more on Sandra and Jesse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s it like to be able to make a tough guy like that cry on national television? He was -- he was tearing up right in front of --
SANDRA BULLOCK, ACTRESS: Did you cry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the world.
BULLOCK: He doesn`t cry. He doesn`t cry. No, he doesn`t. He`s right there. Don`t piss him off. He had something in his eye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that was before all these revelations came out of an alleged affair. Poor Sandra.
Here`s my big issue. Was she blind or blind-sided? Did sandy know what she was getting into when she tied the knot with this particular guy? Jesse James spent time on the road as a professional bodyguard. He toured with metal bands.
His second marriage was to a porn star. He had a daughter with her. And oh, by the way, a custody battle is heating up over that 6-year- old child in the wake of all this.
Then he went on to "Monster Garage", and then -- that`s -- there`s "Monster Garage" and then ultimately "Celebrity Apprentice". Ok?
This is a bad boy. Just like Steve Santagati.
All right, the callers. Patricia, Oklahoma. Your question or thought.
PATRICIA, OKLAHOMA (via telephone): Hi, Jane.
PATRICIA: I`m calling about Sandra and Jesse.
PATRICIA: Sandra I`ve always admired and thought was wonderful. I don`t know what she saw in Jesse. She has way too much class for him. And I hope that she will get out of that and go on with her life and find someone that`s more deserving of all she has to offer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. And I certainly hope so.
Dr. Rich -- Rick Richards. You authored "the tiger woods syndrome". What is up with these men married to gorgeous women who feel the need to cheat with heavily tattooed women and other --
RICK RICHARDS, AUTHOR, "THE TIGER WOODS SYNDROME": Well, what happens is that men can conjure up an image, and they`re pretty good at this. In Jesse`s case he looked at Sandra and say she likes -- wants a likeable rogue. So he performed that image. And unfortunately, women buy into this, and it`s very convincing. But what happens is --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was already a likeable rogue when she met him. He didn`t become -- he wasn`t an accountant who turned into a likeable rogue. He was a likeable rogue already.
SANTAGATI: Thank you.
RICHARDS: Yes. But she thinks -- you know, it seems like this guy can be a good husband, believe it or not. And they buy into it and ultimately they revert back, and in this case an extreme way. But as we`ve seen with David Letterman, John Edwards, Tiger Woods, the old person seems to come out of this dual life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s Steve Santagati. Here`s what I think. I know as a woman that --
SANTAGATI: It might be Sandra`s fault.
SANTAGATI: How about that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. No way.
SANTAGATI: How about this? Just for a second. We always want to go after the cheater. Oh, really? If your husband didn`t make you feel beautiful and special and he didn`t touch you for months on end because he was of at his job, would you have the right to go seek male attention? Yes or no?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a very complicated question for me. I think - -
SANTAGATI: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- I might have to pass on that one.
SANTAGATI: A woman`s job is to take care of her guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. Here`s what I think. I think that a lot of women want to change a guy. In other words, they want to fix him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They say I`m going to tame them. I`m going to tame this wild beast. And it doesn`t happen.
Ian Drew, you see this in Hollywood all the time.
IAN DREW: We see it every week, actually. It`s made up the bulk of our covers over the last year. I mean, it`s ridiculous. They all cheat. They all cheat.
And it`s just like a fact of -- nothing surprises me anymore, especially after this time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`ll tell you one other thing as we wrap up -- thank you, fabulous panel -- guys sometimes don`t like it when their woman is a lot more successful than they are. Oscar. Get my drift? Jealousy.
SANTAGATI: You know --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Feeling a little less than.
SANTAGATI: No, I want a rich woman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re watching issues on HLN.