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John Edwards`s Mistress Talks to Oprah

Aired April 30, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, stunning new developments in the wake of Rielle Hunter`s jaw-dropping explanation of her steamy affair with John Edwards. The former presidential candidate`s mistress spoke out in her very first TV interview to Oprah. You will not believe what she`s saying now! Tonight, I`ll talk with Andrew Young, Edwards`s former top aide and the author of a blockbuster tell-all for the inside scoop on this shocking scandal.

Then, Casey Anthony comes face to face with her new judge. If her defense team thought she was in for a walk in the park, they may be in for a reality check. Will this judge dramatically change the case? We`ll show you the courtroom fireworks.

Plus, as Lindsay Lohan gets backlash over her skanky new gun-toting photo shoot, TMZ reports she could be headed for jail. They claim the troubled starlet has violated her probation by not attending her court- ordered weekly alcohol education classes. Could La Lohan end up locked up?

ISSUES starts now.

Tonight, head-spinning new developments in the John Edwards/Rielle Hunter affair. We`re talking explosive confessions, excuses, sordid details. In 2006, Rielle began having sex with a married man who hoped to become president. Two years later, Rielle gave birth to John Edwards`s baby daughter.

Of course, there`s a whole lot more to this twisted tale. Yesterday on Oprah, we heard Rielle try to justify her deception.



RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS`S MISTRESS: Absolutely not. I don`t -- it is not my experience that a third party can -- wrecks a home. A lot of people bought into the myth of the marriage, I mean, the -- the Edwards marriage as being a storybook story. And it was so perfect and so wonderful, and I destroyed it. People aren`t property. You can`t steal someone else`s husband.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rielle, if there was nothing wrong with what you were doing, why did you go to such great lengths to hide it? Rielle dished, as well, about making a sex tape with John Edwards. She exposed her own lies about who was the father of the baby, but she refused to confirm whether she and "Johnny" -- that`s what she calls him -- are still together.

Meantime, the scandal is far from over. Oh, no, no, no, no. In just two weeks, John Edwards will be forced to testify under oath about the affair and the sex tape. It`s all part of a lawsuit filed by Rielle Hunter against this man, Andrew Young. Andrew is a former campaign aide to John Edwards, but he also aided in a scheme to hide the truth about Rielle`s pregnancy, posing as the baby`s dad. Rielle is claiming Andrew invaded her privacy in the process of writing his shocking best-selling tell-all, "The Politician."

Andrew Young, one-time confidant to John Edwards, joins me tonight. Andrew, seriously, it is great to have you with us. So much to ask...

ANDREW YOUNG, FMR. AIDE TO JOHN EDWARDS: Thank you for having me on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... we could talk for hours, I`m sure. But the first burning question everybody`s wondering about -- Rielle told Oprah that it was your idea to falsely claim paternity of her child with John Edwards, that you piped in, I`ll say it`s mine. What`s your reaction to that?

ANDREW: I think it flows in line with everything else that she said in the interview. It makes absolutely no sense that I would willingly just willy-nilly say, Let`s throw my family and myself into this. This was John Edwards`s idea from the beginning. And it`s absolute nonsense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying Rielle lied on Oprah.

ANDREW: Absolutely, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So you`re saying Rielle is a liar, basically.

ANDREW: I think that`s pretty obvious from the interview. I mean, I -- she -- you know, what`s -- what`s amazing throughout the interview is that they -- she completely deflects blame for anything that she did. The only thing that she says that she`s sorry about, not destroying John Edwards`s marriage, not destroying his career, not the hurt that she caused to a lot of people -- the only thing she expresses regret for is -- is the mistake that she made in the "GQ" photo shoot.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, pants on the ground.

ANDREW: Yes. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rielle told Oprah that the sex tape was made in the, quote, "heat of the moment," and said it should remain private. Listen to this.


HUNTER: We said, Well, that was not a great idea. Let`s do something to prevent anyone from seeing it because we don`t want anyone to see our private business. So I took an action to destroy the tape and kept it in my personal belongings so no one would get ahold of the tape.

WINFREY: How -- did you just -- did you think you had destroyed it?

HUNTER: I did think I had destroyed it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, really? Why not pour hot coffee on it, honey, because you`re a videographer. You should know how to destroy a tape. You did not destroy it, apparently.

Now, Rielle is suing you, Andrew, for invasion of privacy. She has demanded that you return all of her personal property, photos and the sex tape. But here`s what I don`t understand. A judge has apparently determined that you have returned all the sex tapes.

ANDREW: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why do you think she`s still pursuing a lawsuit, given that now John Edwards is going to have to be deposed under oath? That`s going to drag his name through the headlines again. Why would she do something that would hurt John Edwards?

ANDREW: Well, I -- I think a lot of this is an attention grab. I`m not sure that when they initially sued me that they thought out all the potential ramifications, including John Edwards being deposed while he`s got a grand jury looking at him. But I don`t really know what Rielle`s motivations are at all because the tape does not show her at all. It doesn`t show her face at all. She could have easily claimed that it was not her in the video.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s what I don`t understand about the tape. There`s been conflicting stories about what`s on the tape. OK, Quinn is conceived in the spring of 2007. That`s their daughter.

ANDREW: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rielle Hunter said a tape was made in September of 2006. That`s before she was pregnant.

ANDREW: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I believe you said that the woman on the tape was pregnant. So my question to you is, could there be two sex tapes?

ANDREW: Well, I think there were a lot of questions that Oprah left unasked or left on the editing floor. You know, the tape that we had appeared to be a dub because there was no noise on it. I think one of the questions is, are there other sex tapes? I mean, they dated each other for a very, very long period.

And the thing about -- you know, she said that she kept it with her private things. We went on the run for over -- you know, for a year, and yet she left this sex tape at my house in North Carolina? You would think, you know, you pack a hairbrush, you pack a toothbrush, Oh, let`s get the video of me with the presidential candidate, you know?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, speaking of that, I guess the big question the grand jury is pondering, was anything illegal done in the course of her being sort of whisked away to hide because...

ANDREW: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... John Edwards was running for president and was a married man?

ANDREW: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was anything illegal done? Were campaign funds used in that whole process where you were going from hotel to hotel, jetting about?

ANDREW: Nothing that I know about. I mean, there was some stuff that they showed me when I was questioned before the grand jury that leads me to think that they have -- they`ve spent an enormous amount of time. I mean, I was questioned for about nine hours. They`ve spent well over a year investigating him. And my attorney, who was a prosecutor for 20 years, was very, very amazed at how prepared and how much -- how much they had researched this.

So I think that if they didn`t have something -- they showed me two checks that were from different entities that John Edwards led that were made out to Rielle Hunter, and they were signed not by John Edwards but by other people. And I would think that if they can connect that to John Edwards, then I think that there`s some serious questions to be answered.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you certainly think the possibility of John Edwards having done something illegal still exists?

ANDREW: The feds are -- are very thorough. And I don`t think they`d be wasting the taxpayers` money if they didn`t have something.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. In another bizarre exchange, Rielle seems to diagnose her lover with an addiction. Listen to this one.


WINFREY: Did he talk to you about the fact that he was going to announce for president...

HUNTER: Yes. He was in extreme conflict about it.

WINFREY: Explain to me what that means.

HUNTER: He didn`t know if it was the right thing to do because he had personal problems. He was, I believe, addicted to campaigning and that was going on, and he had a staff who wanted him -- all their paychecks and all of their livelihoods depended on him announcing. And Elizabeth wanted him to.

WINFREY: Did you think that he should run? Did you think that he should run?

HUNTER: No, no, no.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Andrew, you were right there. Was John Edwards running for president so his staffers could have jobs?

ANDREW: There`s so many lies throughout that. I mean, first of all, Rielle absolutely wanted him to run. She would always say to him, Oh, it`s good to be king. Oh, it`s good to be king. And John Edwards never had any conflicts about running. He would complain about how hard it made his life.

But there`s so many lies in here. I mean, she says that -- you know, that they didn`t use birth control and that John Edwards knew that she could get pregnant. She told John Edwards that she physically could not get pregnant. She told me that. There`s so many lies throughout this interview.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So wait a second. You think that she was trying to get pregnant on purpose with John Edwards`s child to put her in the situation she is in now?

ANDREW: Well, she as much as said that during the interview. I mean, she said that if she got pregnant, it was not something she would avoid. The interview is replete with -- she talks about virtue and honesty and loyalty and a truth to -- to this cosmic greatness. But then she talks about lies like they were nothing...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Did she trick...

ANDREW: ... lies that affected -- I`m sorry. Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she trick John Edwards into getting pregnant, into fathering her child?

ANDREW: When John Edwards called -- when I called John to tell him that she was pregnant, he screamed bloody murder. He had -- he said that there was only a 1 in 3 shot that it could be his baby because she was seeing other people and that she had lied to him because she had told him - - and she had told me -- that she was physically unable to get pregnant.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. OK. That`s a bombshell.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there. We`re going to have more with Andrew Young right after the break in a couple of seconds.

And also, Casey Anthony`s day in court. It was her first hearing with the new judge, and he is a tough one. Some explosive developments in court, and much more with my fantastic guest, Andrew Young. We`re talking about perhaps the most scandalous sex scandal in modern American history!


GOV. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Let me first of all apologize to my wife, Jenny.

ELIOT SPITZER (D), FMR NEW YORK GOVERNOR: I have begun to atone for my private failings with my wife, Silda...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... especially my wife. I`m truly sorry.





JENNY SANFORD, DIVORCED FROM SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: She`s not 16. She knew what she was doing. And John Edwards was not only married, he was visibly telling the world he was married and showing the world he was married. So no, I think she -- I think she contributed to the breakup of that home. So did he. You can`t let him off the hook.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jenny Sanford dumped her hubby, the governor of South Carolina, last year after he confessed to a long-distance love affair with his mistress.

Yesterday, the mistress of another disgraced politician spilled her guts to Oprah. The only moment Rielle Hunter broke down was when she talked about her baby daughter.


HUNTER: If he got out of the race because of her, me being pregnant with her, and always had that thing in his head, I could have been president, you know, and some blame towards her at all, and if she somehow flipped it in her head that it was her fault, coming into the world -- sorry -- that -- that was too hard for me. So that was the only reason I said yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are your regrets, Andrew, when it comes to having falsely claimed being the father of that child? Do you think, for example, baby Quinn will get an apology from you when she grows up?

ANDREW: I`m going to apologize to everybody involved, you know, to my family, to the voters, the people who -- I mean, yes, I`m going to spend the rest of my life apologizing. That`s one of the things that is so frustrating to me about John and Rielle is that they haven`t apologized to anybody for what they did. And it`s really infuriating that -- you know, when it comes to what she did to Elizabeth, to John and Elizabeth`s kids, she completely absolves herself of any blame. The only -- the only person that she`s concerned about is herself and now her baby.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Rielle told Oprah this story about how she and John met back in February of 2006. Listen to this one.


HUNTER: We noticed each other and there was a mutual staring going on, but it was just a connection, like...

WINFREY: Did you think, Oh, there`s John Edwards?

HUNTER: No, I did not know it was John Edwards.

We were walking out of the Regency to go get dinner, and then he came around the corner and saw me standing on the street and he lit up. He was just so excited -- I mean, just lit up like a Christmas tree, white lights, you know, just, like, bright as can be. And I just turned to him and said, You`re so hot, and he practically jumped in my arms. And I said to him, I can help you. And he said, I want your help. I need your help.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Definitely got to hand it to her for at least having one of the more original pickup lines, "I could help you."

Andrew, what do you think her initial motives were? And what can you tell us about Diane Dimond reporting in The Daily Beast that you plan to depose somebody who knows all about Rielle`s history with all sorts of men?

ANDREW: Well, I want to stay -- the deposition part, you know, with the case, I want to stay away from that because we want to -- you know, it`s going to be somebody that -- that knows...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know something? Do you know something about Rielle you`re not telling us?

ANDREW: I think a lot of people know a lot about Rielle. I mean, her history is pretty well documented in "Bright Lights, Big City" and numerous sources. But the thing about -- you know, when -- for her -- for Rielle to say, you know, You`re so hot, and then, you know, I can help you and I want your help and Christmas tree and all that, and then she ends up in his hotel room that night knowing that he`s married, you know, and then to talk about virtue and honesty and the path to enlightenment -- it`s just -- it`s -- it`s absurd and it`s disgusting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, let me ask you about her basically saying you can`t steal somebody`s husband because they`re not property and implying that there were a long, long, long history of troubles within John Edwards`s marriage to Elizabeth. You were there. Was their marriage very troubled before she came on the scene?



ANDREW: Yes. There were a lot of fights. I found out later that there were previous affairs. I found out after I found out about Rielle that there were other affairs. So there was trouble, I mean, in their marriage. But you know, that doesn`t absolve Rielle from stepping in and doing what she did. I mean, it doesn`t absolve anybody of it.

And the thing that I can say about Rielle is she had a pattern while she was with us, and prior to when she was with us, of actively pursuing men of wealth, power, and prestige. You know, one of the reasons that she was so against the senator`s, you know, wanting to say that I was the father of the baby was I was beneath her. I was a normal working Joe. I wasn`t -- I wasn`t Dave Matthews. I wasn`t John Edwards. I wasn`t Jeff Goldblum. You know, I mean, that -- she has a history of chasing rich, powerful men.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To your knowledge, are John and Rielle lovers now? She refused to answer that question.

ANDREW: I -- I thought -- that was one of the things that was very curious to me. It was almost -- it made me think that there`s some type of contractual stipulation on the support that she`s getting because, you know, she would be open and honest about all these things, and then all of a sudden, she would say, Fade to black, and not talk about something for no reason. I mean, she would say that she was in the hotel late at night, but then she wouldn`t say if she spent the night or not. And then -- do I think they`re seeing each other? Absolutely. But do I know that for a fact? No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what do you mean by contractual obligations, in other words that there`s some kind of contract between John and Rielle that she`s not going to say certain things?

ANDREW: That`s what I would think. I mean, they bought her a half-a- million-dollar house, and she admitted yesterday during the interview that he`s giving her child support, and obviously pretty extensive financial support. So I -- knowing John Edwards and Elizabeth Edwards the way that I do, very few things come without strings attached.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen, hang in there. This is fascinating stuff. We`re also going to talk a bit about wild child Lindsay Lohan. Is she violating the terms of her probation by skipping her weekly alcohol education classes? And take a look at this photo shoot. Wow! And it`s horse-racing season, but what happens to those thoroughbreds after all the bets have been placed? OK, you will not hear this story anywhere else!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re talking Rielle Hunter/John Edwards sex scandal. After watching Oprah, a lot of people wondered how Rielle Hunter defines the word "truth." Listen to this one.


HUNTER: What`s been said about me -- all my personal life has been written about and exposed -- the facts are incorrect. I mean, it`s all incorrect. And that also bothers me because I am very much a person committed to truth. I believe in truth. I think you need to get all your ducks in a row and live a life of integrity before you step out into the public.

WINFREY: When you say that, can you understand how people who don`t know you...

HUNTER: Totally.

WINFREY: ... feel that that`s completely out of alignment? You`re talking about integrity, and you`re the woman who is...

HUNTER: Living the -- the...

WINFREY: The big lie.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s bring in my fantastic panel. They`ve been listening to my conversation with Andrew Young. Lisa Bloom, CNN legal analyst, Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist, and Howard Samuels, addiction specialist and founder of The Hills Treatment Center.

Lisa Bloom, what do you make of this tit for tat?

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it`s so sad to me that Rielle didn`t take the opportunity to apologize to the children that she`s harmed by her actions, John Edwards`s young children, who are completely innocent here. She wouldn`t even concede that she had a part in taking Daddy out of that home. She brings Quinn into the world, where, at best, her father is always going to be conflicted about her, is always going to be distracted away by his original family.

It`s all about Rielle. It`s all about her and her truth. And this woman has the gall to say she lives a life of integrity?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rielle Hunter claims to be a spiritual person. Oprah asked her how that squared with her decision to hook up with a married guy. Listen to this explanation.


WINFREY: Is there a part of you, in terms of choice, that ever thought, Well, if you want to be perfectly aligned, the love we cannot deny, but you are married. It`s a mess. Why don`t you figure that mess out and call me when it`s done? Did you ever think that?

ANDREW: I had those thoughts.


ANDREW: Didn`t act on them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, addiction specialist, here`s my big issue. Were these two romance addicts? Love and romance addicts become the stars in their own grandiose, drama-filled love story that gets magnified in their fantasy-prone minds as an epic battle for true love. I mean, as a man who wanted to be president, making a sex tape, in terms of addiction, what better way to ratchet up the drama?

HOWARD SAMUELS, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, you know, Jane, you`re absolutely right. I mean, these are two people who are so love-addicted that they have no impulse control over that basic animalistic feeling. And you know, for this woman to say she has integrity, I mean, it is such a joke. I mean, she is so spiritually sick.

And for John Edwards to, you know, be doing this, he`s so self- destructive, just like Bill Clinton was. I mean, it is the same type of element that people don`t talk about that has to be talked about because there is an addiction here to a lack of impulse control and that needs...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brenda Wade...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have the last word -- 20 seconds.

WADE: You know, Jane, I couldn`t agree more. Remember, there`s no sex quite as exciting as verboten sex. So yes, it`s highly addictive. But integrity Absolutely no integrity and no emotional maturity for people who need to destroy other people along the way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this story ain`t over, not by a long shot. Thank you, fantastic panel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony comes face-to-face with her new judge. If her defense team thought she was in for a walk in the park, they may be in for a reality check. Will this judge dramatically change the case? We`ll show you the courtroom fireworks.

Plus, as Lindsay Lohan gets backlash over her skanky new gun-toting photo shoot, TMZ reports she could be headed for jail. They claim the troubled starlet has violated her probation by not attending her court- ordered weekly alcohol education classes. Could La Lohan end up locked up?

Head-spinning new developments in the Casey Anthony murder case: a different tone today in the Florida courtroom where the accused child- killer came face-to-face with her brand new judge. It`s the very first hearing since Judge Stan Strickland recused himself -- meaning, I`m out of here -- after admitting to speaking to a local blogger about the murder case.

You know what they say. Be careful what you wish for. Casey`s defense team got the last judge booted out. Now his replacement is cracking the whip.


JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA: I would prefer if it`s a budget that has to do with this case; I got time next week and the following week. That needs to be done like yesterday.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Like yesterday", get the tone? Chief Judge Belvin Perry started the session like that, promptly on time in what he called a case management hearing. He covered everything, pending motions, future court dates, deadlines. He also seemed taken aback at the snail`s pace this trial has been moving at.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m in the (INAUDIBLE) down by the school. I need you like now. I just found a human skull.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Little Caylee`s body was found in 2008. The murder trial is not slated to start until May of 2011, more than another year away -- we`re almost exactly another year.

Tonight, the judge says the trial will likely last four to six weeks, that`s not including jury selection. He also says an additional week will be added for sentencing if there`s a conviction.

Straight out to my awesome expert panel: criminal defense attorney, Bradford Cohen; investigative reporter, Rozzie Franco; CNN legal analyst, Lisa Bloom; and correspondent with "In Session" on TruTV, Jean Casarez.

Jean, what is the very latest?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, The very latest is it`s going to be a busy year, Jane. You`re right, the trial may not happen for a year, but so much is going to happen.

We did learn the trial length today is probably going to be about two months, but that is not including a rebuttal case by the prosecution, jury deliberation or jury selection. And that gets us to a change of venue because, you know, the defense wants a change of venue. They don`t want this case heard here in Orlando because of pre-trial publicity. They say a right to a fair trial to Casey Anthony is abridged.

But the judge, we hear his mindset today; his thought is on dollars and cents. So he`s thinking to select the jury in another county in Florida and bring them here to Orlando. They`ll be sequestered in a hotel, meaning they`ll be away from their family for two months. The trial would then be held right here where it all happened in Orlando, Florida.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Another thing discussed today was -- well, it was what Jean Casarez was just talking about, a possible change of venue.

Perry acknowledged this case has gotten a ton of -- a ton of publicity. Listen to this.


PERRY: As I`ve done a number of change-of-venue cases, one of the things I will do is once I grant it, the location will not be disclosed. It will be disclosed at the last possible moment. And it`s quite obvious why we must do that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So explain this whole change of venue intricacy, Lisa Bloom. The way I understand it is that they would select jurors from another county. The defense probably wants Dade, Miami area. And the prosecution probably wants a more conservative county up north. But those people are going to be trucked in to Orlando and then forced to stay in a hotel with no TV and no newspaper for months on end? What?

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Can you imagine what kind of a dreary life that would be? Look, this is absolutely the right ruling. And Jean and I have seen this in other high-profile cases.

You want to keep it in the county where the event happened because that`s where all of the witnesses are and you don`t want to have to drag witnesses across the state. But you want to get jurors from outside the county because everybody in that county has been heavily involved and invested in the case.

Yes, this is a nationally-known case, but in Orlando in particular, everybody was involved either in the search or in one way or another and they`re highly connected. So it`s only fair to the defense and her constitutional right to a fair trial to have jurors be brought in from another county.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rozzie Franco, you have -- you`re based in that area. What do you think the reaction of the community is going to be when they truck all these people in and set them up at a hotel and then, of course, the tent city of media arrives in Orlando to begin their campout outside the courthouse?

ROZZIE FRANCO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, from understanding the community right now, people in the community want to be a part of this trial and they want to be on the jury. So bringing other jurors in is definitely going to probably upset the community.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what`s interesting, you see Casey here today. She looks very stone-faced. I almost got the impression, Jean Casarez, that she`s like looking at this new judge and thinking, maybe that motion to recuse Judge Strickland wasn`t such a great idea.

CASAREZ: Well, you know, my sources tell me that the defense loves this judge. They think he is very fair. They`re happy to have him. But there was a moment today in the courtroom that I felt like the courtroom just stood still when the judge was looking at dates and he said, "If she is convicted of first-degree murder we will be going into a penalty phase."

There was just a silence in that courtroom when those words were spoken.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. You know, Bradford Cohen, do you think the defense made a mistake by getting this judge recused, the other one?

BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, exactly what your other guest said is that I`ve heard that the defense loves this judge. I`ve heard that Strickland, though, is much more defense-oriented in terms of how he proceeds in his courtroom and this judge is much more hard-lined and hard-nosed. Although the defense has a theory that possibly that this judge would have really the gumption to do the right thing in a case if they need to file a motion that maybe a judge may be swayed by the publicity of the case. So I know the defense is very happy with this judge actually.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ten seconds, Jean Casarez. There was some kind of brouhaha outside court involving Marinade Dave?

CASAREZ: Well, he is here. He will be here in all the hearings. He will blog on it and he`s not going anywhere, he says.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ve got an angry blogger out there in court.

Thank you, wonderful panel.

Lindsay Lohan`s party days might be numbered. New reports claim she could end up behind bars for violating the terms of her probation.

And look at this skanky photo shoot.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not knocking the treatment centers that she went through already, but when people go -- when people with addiction problems go into a treatment center, I don`t think they should go in without being off prescription drugs and come out being on prescription drugs.

Every time Lindsay went through a rehab they put her on more and more prescription drugs.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fast-breaking developments in Lindsay Lohan`s downward spiral. Now we`re hearing the judge in her DUI case might send her to the slammer. All of this on the tails of a new photo shoot that you will not believe. It shows Lindsay with a gun toward her mouth. She calls this art. You be the judge on that one.

Here`s her latest ploy to get attention.

Hollywood TV shows Lindsay in her underwear posing for the cameras with a gun, at times holding it near her mouth; very disturbing if you ask me. Then again, who asked me?

In addition to her bad taste in art, TMZ says it has proof Lindsay is not complying with court-ordered alcohol education classes. Her lawyer says, "Uh-uh, that`s not true." Lindsay has time to pose for tasteless photos but no time to get well and kick her self-destructive habits?

Her dad, Michael Lohan, told ISSUES what he found when he went to her apartment.


MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S FATHER: She looked like she had a major hangover. Her eyes were red. Her makeup was smeared all over her face. She was irate.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The falling star goes back to court in three short weeks. Will the judge pull the plug on her probation? If so, will she serve more than 84 minutes in jail this time around?

Straight out to my fantastic panel: back with us, clinical psychologist, Brenda Wade; criminal defense attorney, Brad Cohen; Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center. And we begin with Kim Serafin, senior editor of "Us Weekly".

We`ve been told by Lindsay Lohan`s attorney, quote, "We contend that Ms. Lohan is in substantial compliance with the conditions of her probation", end quote.

Kim Serafin, what are you hearing about this court ordered alcohol ed classes?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Yes, oh by the way, I`m with "In Touch Weekly" so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, oh, I`m sorry about that.

SERAFIN: No, it`s ok.

Yes, of course, as you mentioned, TMZ did report that she maybe was not in compliance with her probation because she was supposed to, according to a court order, attend alcohol education classes every seven days and apparently she had not.

She sort of just cut it close by going every 21 days and now her lawyer says no she`s in substantial compliance because if she did miss a class and when she did miss one, she made it up by going twice the next week, but technically that`s not what is in her probation. So perhaps this could result in her getting jail time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. To make it up to you, I`m going to say, "In Touch", "In Touch", "In Touch", three times -- Kim Serafin.

Lindsay`s photo shoot, you know, as far as I`m concerned, it just isn`t funny. It is disturbing. Let`s look at it again.

Hollywood TV shared video of the shoot with us. Lindsay`s barely clothed and posing with a gun, at times holding it near her mouth. Lindsay`s posing for photographer Tyler Shields who is writing a book called "The Dirty Side of Glamour". And then there are shots that show her spattered with fake blood, we assume it`s fake, posing as if she`s dead.

What does this say about Lindsay`s frame of mind? I have to say, Brenda Wade, these scenes remind me of the horrific death of actress Lana Clarkson. You know music producer Phil Spector was found guilty of murdering, killing Lana Clarkson. Prosecutors claimed he shoved a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. What do you have to say about this?

BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know Jane, for all of us there is nothing harder than admitting our faults and getting help. It`s harder for addicts, as you know.

And in Lindsay`s case, she has such a troubled family. Her father and her mother, both clearly with various kinds of problems, drugs, alcohol, younger mates, et cetera. It spells chaos.

Now, there are four things that people have to be able to do to get well, get clean, get sober. Number one, she needs the emotional support. Number two, emotional insight. Number three, spiritual growth because it`s the only thing that can --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. I`ve got to jump in. Brenda --

WADE: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She needs spiritual support. She`s not letting anybody close to her, according to her dad.

WADE: That`s my point exactly. Yes. Her brain is so involved in drugs and alcohol, but I want to say this. Spiritual growth is the only thing that`s scientifically proven to increase emotional maturity and moral maturity. She needs it. And she needs ongoing work.

Now her dad -- I`m sorry.


WADE: Her dad is no person here who can point the finger. He`s got a lot of problems of his own. And I think he is part of her problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to say that Lindsay insists that she is complying with her alcohol ed program and we have no independent confirmation that she`s using alcohol or drugs.

I mean, I don`t have my pinky in her cocktail so I don`t know, but, of course, the speculation has been that the shots of her falling all over the place in town, tripping and being blocked from certain clubs indicates a problem.

And here is my big issue. Why is Lindsay out in the first place? Why wasn`t she ever in jail? Anybody else, especially let`s say a poor minority kid from the inner city who would have pulled some of the stunts that she has, they would have been thrown in jail for years, I believe.

Take that bizarre car chase back in 2007. Lindsay is being sued for allegedly commandeering an SUV. You know, back where I come from, that`s called carjacking. Lindsay then sped after another car driven by the mother of her assistant, allegedly.

Here is the 911 call from the assistant`s mother.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok, what`s going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED REMALE: I don`t -- we were just about to park our car. We were coming home. And out of nowhere, a huge, white GMC came up and -- ok. That`s ok. This is -- we`re coming -- we`re 4th and Wilshire. We`re coming down right now. We`re being followed by a GMC. The gentleman jumped out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes and what did he do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, sir they`re following us, we need help.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, you`re the addiction specialist. Lindsay was arrested for DUI and coke possession; she served only 84 minutes in jail. Now she`s missed two depositions in the civil case. You know, where -- where`s Lindsay`s probation officer in all of this, do you think?

HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Well, obviously to me the courts are not really doing their job. I mean, it`s very, very sad that Lindsay and somebody like this has not hit a bottom. I mean, it`s so obvious from her public image and what we see in the press reports.

And I must say the first line of -- of defense is the family. The family is on the front lines here. And even though Michael is pretty out there, he`s right in the way that a family intervention has to happen. And this girl needs to get help. And somehow that has to happen before she`s dead. Because it really looks like it`s going to a tragic, tragic end.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay and her sister Ali are now in New York City to spend Mother`s Day with mom, Dina. The question is will brunch turn into happy hour? Michael Lohan isn`t -- made some very harsh claims about his ex-wife`s drinking habits when he appeared on ISSUES last Friday.


LOHAN: Dina has got to set a good example for Lindsay. She`s got to stop drinking. She can`t party with her. And she`s got to be there as a mother. Stand by my side, put our differences aside and let`s help our daughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re saying Dina is partying with Lindsay?

LOHAN: Oh, come on. We`ve seen it 100 times when she`s out here and when she`s in New York. They`re always out drinking together. They go to the same clubs together.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to go back to Howard Samuels. That is a very harsh attack.

Now, Lindsay, Ali and Dina are supposedly shooting a Mother`s Day special on rearranging Dina`s closet. You know, we tried to reach Dina and get her response to Michael Lohan`s complaints about her, but if it`s true -- and I have no independent confirmation if it is -- Howard Samuels, would that be highly irresponsible for a mom to go out drinking with somebody who has a substance abuse problem?

SAMUELS: Oh, it`s a joke. I mean, you know, the mother knows more than anybody what, you know, the daughter is going through. And the mother has a huge responsibility just like the father to set boundaries and not enable.

And what`s happening here, at least what the reports are suggesting, is that she is enabling her daughter and she`s going to enable her daughter right to the grave.


Again, I have to stress that we have no independent confirmation as to whether any of this is true. And part of the problem here is that you don`t know with this cast of characters what`s truth and what`s fiction. Everybody is pointing the finger at --

WADE: Yes but what we do know, Jane, is that neither of these parents is setting a great example. The father is speaking out, but, you know, I understand that he is himself a person with a lot of issues not the least of which is his inconsistency.

One of the ways Lindsay is going to get well is she needs consistent, stable help and support. And she needs it now. I couldn`t agree more.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, as we take another look at this Hollywood TV video of this really skanky photo shoot where she`s just looking quite out of it. I don`t know if that`s just a great acting job -- holding a gun, which she points to her mouth at some time.

We know that she`s got this civil suit, Bradford Cohen; she`s reportedly missed some depositions. How long can she play the game of not taking this suit seriously before it catches up with her?

BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Generally what happens, if you miss a deposition or two, there`s some leeway there until the -- until the lawyer files an order to show cause or something of that nature where there`s an order from the court directing her to show up at a deposition, if she doesn`t she could be held in contempt then that would be a substantial violation of her -- of her probation.

So if the lawyer holds her feet to the fire, he`ll file an order to show cause within the next deposition. The court will order her to be there. If she fails to show up at that one, then the court could go forward with the contempt hearing, and that may violate her probation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m willing to take bets, but something tells me this girl is never going to see the inside of a jail cell unless it`s on a movie set because we have a two-tiered system of justice in this country.

COHEN: That`s true.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One for the rich and famous and the other for everyone else.

Thank you, fantastic panel.

It is horse racing season. But what happens to thoroughbreds after the bets have been cast and the final race? We`ll tell you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s racing season in America. The Kentucky Derby this weekend, then the Preakness, then the Belmont Stakes. Get out the fancy party hats and sip your mint julep.

But critics say there is a secret, very ugly side to the horse racing industry. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals says more than 100,000 American horses are slaughtered every year in Canada and Mexico. And critics say some of them are former race horses and the cast-off foals of the race horse breeding industry.

What happens after thoroughbreds lose a race or throw a rider or develop a limp? What about the horses bred for racing that don`t quite measure up? Where do they all go? The answer may shock you.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s on a (INAUDIBLE) truck. He has been sold for meat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horse slaughter supporters are pushing to reopen horse slaughter plants by arguing that U.S. Laws protect horses from cruelty. The slaughter process starts at auction. The horses sold to kill buyers are transported for days and days and days without food and water.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is a severe horse overpopulation crisis in America. Critics say one big reason is over-breeding for the racing industry. Critics say they`re breeding for perfection, and that perfectly healthy horses who just don`t quite measure up end up being sent to slaughter.

I`m delighted to welcome Joy Apten, advisory board member of the film "Saving America`s Horses" to the show.

Joy, what is your complaint with the racing industry, my dear? What would you like to say about horse slaughter and the horrors of horse slaughter?

JOY APTEN, THOROUGHBRED RACEHORSE ADVOCATE: Well, Jane, it is absolutely heartbreaking. As was mentioned, thousands and thousands of our nation`s horses are butchered in slaughterhouses yearly. Not one of them deserves that. Not a single one deserves the torturous trip or the unspeakable death there.

But to add to that tragedy are those slaughtered horses that have lived their lives for the sole purpose of attaining fortune and possibly fame for their owners. This includes horses of every breed, of a variety of equine disciplines, and most certainly the thoroughbred racehorse. Our statistics show that clearly, 60 percent of the annual thoroughbred foal crop will end up dead on the bloodied slaughterhouse floor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to tell you that we have no independent confirmation of that statistic. We do know that a host of groups, from the Humane Society of the United States on down, have gathered together to try to get more humane treatment of horses in general.

The images of what happens to these beautiful creatures is so graphic, we can only show you a little glimpse of what they go through. And it doesn`t just happen to the castoffs. It can also happen to star horses.

Look at this gorgeous creature. Ferdinand won the Kentucky Derby in 1986. He became a stud and then was later sold to a breeding farm in Japan. It`s been reported that in 2002 he was sent to slaughter.

Now, Congress has been mulling over a horse slaughter ban that would prohibit the buying, shipping, and selling of horses for slaughter. But they keep talking about it. They never do anything about it. What do you want people to do?

APTEN: I would like people to first of all just be aware of the legislation. And then call your state representative. Let them know to encourage to close our borders to the transport of our horses across our borders into Canada and into Mexico. Also --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there, Joy. You`ve heard it. You`re watching issues on HLN.