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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Suspect Claims Death of Lacrosse Player an Accident
Aired May 4, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, fast-breaking news in the war on women. A star college athlete, brutally murdered at the University of Virginia. Cops now say Yeardley Love`s boyfriend kicked in her bedroom door and beat her to death, leaving her in a pool of her own blood. Both the victim and the suspect, children of privilege. Tonight the boyfriend`s lawyer claims it was all a tragic accident. Really?
And an amazing will to live. We`ll go inside Bret Michaels` road to recovery. The wildly popular `80s rocker suffered a brain hemorrhage that should have killed him. Tonight, fantastic news as Bret continues to fight for survival. We`ll talk like to his Poison band mate, Ricky Rocket.
Plus we`ll go inside a parent`s worst nightmare. Amber Dubois was abducted while walking to school. One year later, this precious 14-year- old girl was found brutally raped and murdered. Now her killer is speaking out from behind bars. Tonight, I`ll talk one on one with Amber`s angry, devastated mother. Could it have been avoided?
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight, shocking -- and I mean, shocking -- details about the brutal murder of a young University of Virginia lacrosse player. Tonight, we have got the documents and new information about her volatile relationship with the suspect, fellow senior George Huguely, both children of privilege who went to prep school.
Cops say the superintendent told them they had just broken up and had gotten into a violent fight. The 22-year-old college coed was found dead early Monday morning at her off-campus apartment. Her roommate called 911, thinking Love had alcohol poisoning, but police saw something else entirely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POLICE CHIEF TOM LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: It was quickly apparent to them that this young lady was the victim of something far worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Love and the suspect, George Huguely, had reportedly dated for a year and a half but had just ended their relationship. Cops arrested Huguely just hours after they found Love`s body.
George Huguely is a star lacrosse player and described as the big man on campus. But he has a history of alcohol-related problems. Some friends also claim he had a bad temper.
The search warrant affidavits allege Huguely told cops that he kicked in Love`s bedroom door and shook her so violently that her head hit the wall several times. Love ended up on her bed in a pool of blood. On "The Today Show," her UVA family expressed shock and disbelief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG LITTLEPAGE, ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: How could this happen to such a wonderful person? A person that was described as an angel by teammates and friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huguely`s lawyer calls Love`s death a tragic accident. Really? An accident? Cops call it murder one. You be the judge as we walk you through what happened that horrible night.
And I`m taking you calls on this one: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: Stacey Honowitz, supervisor of the sex crimes unit in the Florida prosecutor`s office; clinical psychiatrist Dr. Dale Archer. Do we need you tonight. And as always, HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks on the case. Nick Madigan, reporter for the "Baltimore Sun" joins us via Skype. And Lieutenant Gary Pleasants from the Charlottesville Police Department is on the phone.
But first, Tracey Clemens from WVIR-TV.
Tracey, you`re on top of the story. What is the very latest?
TRACEY CLEMENS, REPORTER, WVIR-TV: The very latest is that George Huguely did admit to police investigators in the documents that we have -- we have obtained the search warrants and that he did admit to police investigators that he kicked in the door with his right foot. He admitted that. He also admitted to an altercation taking place.
And during that altercation, he shook her and she hit her head on the wall of her bedroom. And during that altercation, she also obtained, we assumed, a few bruises on her right side. She was found facedown on her bed in a pool of bed on her pillow with bruise contusions on the right side of her face. Her right eye was swollen shut. And there were also scrapes and bruises on her chin.
In court today George Huguely appeared via videoconference, but he didn`t say anything, didn`t enter any kind of a plea. And he is still being held tonight. He`s withdrawn from the University of Virginia, and his attorney has claimed that it was -- it was a tragic accident that just had tragic results.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, how can the attorney stand up there and say this was a tragic accident? Is that the best defense for this young man, given that he apparently spoke to cops, waived his Miranda rights, and gave them a lot of self-incriminating information?
STACEY HONOWITZ, SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Well, listen, he`s not going to stand up and tell you that he intentionally killed her. Then he`d be confessing, basically, on behalf of his client. So what he`s trying to do is probably ease, you know, into people the notion that it was just a tragic accident in the hopes, maybe, that the prosecutors will re-look at this case and think about the relationship that they had, and maybe try to downfile it from a first-degree murder.
So the bottom line was, if he was going to make his statement at all, this was really the best statement that he could do on behalf of his client.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But Jane, if it was an accident why did Huguely take her computer...
BROOKS: ... and attempt to hide it, and then admitted to police that he did and led them to it? There`s no way there`s an accident here. And it`s probably more damning evidence for him on probably some e-mails or other communications, letters, these kind of things in her computer.
NICK MADIGAN, "BALTIMORE SUN": He admitted that he had exchanged e- mails with her, and it is obviously those e-mails that he was trying to hide. We`ve got to assume that`s the case...
BROOKS: ... because after his altercation, he just took the computer and hid it somewhere, so there was obviously evidence on there that he didn`t want anyone to see.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lieutenant Gary Pleasants with the Charlottesville Police Department, first of all congratulations on a very swift arrest.
LT. GARY PLEASANTS, CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via phone): Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to the search warrant affidavits, this suspect told police a lot. He waived his Miranda rights and just started talking and essentially told them where the computer was and told them what he did that night. Is that correct, sir?
PLEASANTS: Yes, ma`am, he did. He did tell us a number of things that did help us in the investigation and will help us with the prosecution of the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, as far as this murder one, his attorney is saying it`s an accident, but cops believe it`s murder one. Why?
PLEASANTS: Well, the evidence we found, and certainly I can`t go into so much, because the case has not been to trial yet, obviously, but evidence we found and are still obtaining. As your panel knows, a homicide investigation doesn`t end with the arrest. We still have a lot to do. But what we found in our findings, to our belief there is nothing here but murder one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huguely is being held without bond. He will return to court June 10. His lawyer read a statement to reporters. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCIS LAWRENCE, HUGUELY`S ATTORNEY: We are confident that Ms. Love`s death was not intended but an accident with a tragic outcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: His mother, his father, his stepfather were all in court today. You`re looking at them leaving court after their son`s bond hearing. They did not speak.
Now you didn`t see the suspect because he appeared via videoconference from the jail. And as you see there, the parents are leaving, surrounded by a swarm of photographers, but not speaking. And they`ve got to be going through hell, even though they`re smiling.
Huguely grew up privileged in Chevy Chase, Maryland. He was an honors student at the prestigious all-boys Landon School. By the way, that`s the same school where several Duke lacrosse players went, and they were later implicated and later completely cleared in the 2006 rape scandal.
Nick Madigan, what do we know about this young man`s background? Is he what they would call a hard-partying frat boy?
MADIGAN: Well, it appears that there have been a couple of incidents like that. The worst occurred in Lexington, Virginia, in November of 2008. This is from a story that just emerged today. There was, following some sort of an incident at a fraternity house, and he had a run-in with a cop, who returned -- who responded to a 911 call and found Huguely stumbling into traffic.
He told her he was visiting some friends at a frat party. And she asked if anyone could come and pick him up so that he could avoid going to jail. And he became belligerent toward her and said, "I`ll kill you. I`ll kill all of you. I`m not going to jail."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa. Now tell me, who was he threatening now in this -- in this incident?
MADIGAN: A police officer in Lexington, Virginia. This story was uncovered today by a reporter at our friends over at "The Washington Post."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, we...
MADIGAN: And he -- he became combative with her and fought her for two or three minutes. She then had to taser him and finally was able to place him in handcuffs. The taser, she said, "incapacitated him long enough for me to get the cuffs on him."
BROOKS: I bet it did.
MADIGAN: And he apparently became even more aggressive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we had heard that he had a history of public intoxication and resisting arrest. This is the incident that apparently they`re talking about. This is serious stuff.
MADIGAN: Well, he pleaded guilty to resisting arrest and public swearing and intoxication. He received a 60-day suspended sentence, six months of supervised probation, a fine and was ordered to complete 50 hours of community service and substance abuse screening.
BROOKS: There`s a good thing he wasn`t -- he wasn`t convicted for assaulting a police officer. That`s a serious felony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes.
MADIGAN: This would have been much more serious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know that there`s a lot of people who would have been charged with assault on a police officer and would already be doing a long stint up the river. You know -- you know what I`m talking about?
BROOKS: You don`t mess with the police.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what I`m talking about, but he did not. He got off, and now he`s in jail on an even more serious charge, murder one.
All right, everybody stay right where you are. The war on women, out of control. Why do these attacks keep happening? We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus a 14-year-old girl raped and murdered while walking home from school. Tonight, I will talk to Amber Dubois`s heartbroken, devastated, angry mother. Her killer is speaking out.
But first, an amazing college athlete beaten to death inside her bedroom. What sparked the vicious attack?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONGO: The patrol officers arrived on the scene. it was quickly apparent to them that this young lady was the victim of something far worse. there were obvious physical injuries to her body which prompted them to immediately secure the crime scene. Twenty-two-year-old Yeardley love was dead upon our arrival there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONGO: We`re still trying to locate and interview friends, people that may have information about not only what may have taken place last night, but the relationship that Ms. Love and Mr. Huguely had in the past and may have had up until the occurrence of this incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are going to show you some video now of the suspect, George Huguely, 22 years old, a star lacrosse player at the University of Virginia. There you see him. And tonight, No. 11 is behind bars, charged with murder one. What a tragedy for this school. The school in shock and disbelief.
Sherry, Virginia, your question or thought?
CALLER: Well, my thought was, especially being that this month of May is -- there`s a focus on mental health, I find it interesting that they mention that this young man had problems with alcohol and a temper. And I think that it`s very tragic that we don`t hear these details until after a tragic incident like this. And also, I find interesting that this young man and this girl are children of privilege, as it were.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. That`s very interesting, because let me tell you, if you treated a cop that way and you weren`t a child of privilege, there would be a very good chance that you wouldn`t only be tasered, but you`d be sent up the river for a long time.
BROOKS: You know, Jane, it sounds like it was a plea deal. You know, in Lexington, Virginia, that`s where Washington and Lee University is, another very prestigious -- one of the oldest schools in Virginia. So was it a plea deal? Most likely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist, reports are the relationship between these two seniors had just ended in a violent fight. Now, we don`t know who ended the relationship. But isn`t it true that usually violence erupts when one person is rejected and they become rageful?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Absolutely right, Jane. That is the danger period. And if you`re involved with anyone who has any propensity to be a domestic abuser, when you break up, their mind starts to think, "You know what? If I can`t have her, no one else will." The control issues, the jealousy, the rage all erupt at that time. Very, very dangerous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s my...
HONOWITZ: ... factors in the case. This is -- you know, Jane, this is all part of the investigation. That`s why they`re talking to witnesses, to find out if, in fact, there was a violent relationship between the two of them and maybe -- maybe that`s why, you know, if she ended the relationship because she thought he had a temper or he had an alcohol problem.
But this is all part of the discovery process, the investigation that prosecutors are going to try to gather in order to make their case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is my big issue tonight, the alcohol affect. The roommate told police she thought Love had alcohol poisoning, when she found her at 2:15 Monday morning. Remember, bars close at 2 a.m. in Charlottesville.
Now, George Huguely had a past record, as we`ve heard, that includes public intoxication and resisting arrest.
Last night on issues, we found out that Love Huguely lived on a big party street. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE BERCIK, WVIR REPORTER: It`s a typical college street, but in talking to a lot of people who live there, they tell me that the lacrosse members live a couple of blocks down in a house. And that, you know, it`s a typical college area. There are parties Thursday through Saturday night. And they tell me a lot of the time when the lacrosse team parties, they really did party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lieutenant Gary Pleasants, alcohol can make people do some pretty crazy things, what can you tell us about the role alcohol may have played on that night?
PLEASANTS: Well, we won`t know at this point, as far as Ms. Love`s concerned, until we get the toxicology report from the medical examiner. And that may just be that she was unable to defend herself to some degree. As far as Mr. Huguely goes, we probably will not know what part alcohol played in that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you test his -- did you give him a blood test?
PLEASANTS: Swabs were taken. Hair samples were taken. I do not see in the report that blood was taken. However, there was a number of hours by the time of the attack that he was found, also.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nick Madigan, what do we know -- we understand, we keep saying children of privilege. They both went to prep school. This suspect, what do you know about his background and upbringing?
MADIGAN: Well, he`s a child of divorce, for one thing. His parents had an ugly divorce, as most of them are, in 1997. So he was pretty young. And we have heard, although have not been able to confirm yet, that there was some anger management issues with him at the Landon School in Bethesda, which he attended. That was his high school, a private school.
But the issue of privilege in and of itself should have no bearing on whether one commits a crime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it shouldn`t, except that justice is not blind. It`s not blind, and we know it`s not blind.
Fantastic guests, stay right where you are. As the war on women rips through a college campus.
Plus `80s icon, released from the hospital. We`re going to go inside Bret Michaels` amazing road to recovery and talk to his band mate, Ricky Rocket, to see how Bret is doing.
But first, Mother`s Day is this Sunday, so we`re paying tribute, saluting moms everywhere. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN LATIFAH, ACTRESS: Hey, it`s Queen Latifah. I`m wishing my mommy Rita a happy Mother`s Day. I love you, ma.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEONARD SANDRIDGE, EVP, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: As you can imagine, the entire university community is both shocked and saddened over the news today of Ms. Love`s death by the hand of a murderer. But that shock and disappointment and concern, of course, is magnified by the fact that she was murdered by one of our own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The University of Virginia coed brutally murdered in her own bedroom, allegedly by her boyfriend as they broke up or around the time they broke up.
Lakisha, Indiana, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi, Jane, I`m happy to get to talk to you, finally.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I call your show almost every day, and it`s very hard to get through to your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re here now, so ask your question or make your comment.
CALLER: OK, I think that women -- younger women and all women around the world are easy targets because, you know, a man can just come up to you and just snatch us away easily because we can`t fight them off. You know what I`m saying? We can try to fight, but a man is overpower -- is always going to overpower a woman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right. Dr. Dale Archer, this guy was over six feet tall and 209 pounds, and look at her, how petite she is.
ARCHER: No doubt about it. But I think an important point that I need to make here is that domestic violence occurs across the board, so it doesn`t matter whether you`re sober, with alcohol or drugs, rich, poor, old, young. It literally occurs at all socioeconomic levels. And I think that this is just another warning that, if you have an indication that the guy is going to be violent, the breakup is the time it will happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I want to get back to what Nick Madigan said about this previous altercation with a female officer.
Stacey Honowitz, look, this female officer says to this guy who`s allegedly weaving in traffic, appearing drunk, "If you can find somebody to take you home please do, or I`ll have to arrest you." Right there he`s being given special treatment.
Then he threatens to kill the female, allegedly, and says, "I`m going to kill you" to a female officer. I see that as two incidents of special treatment, Stacey.
I know Mike Brooks disagrees. But give me your thought.
BROOKS: It`s a college town, Jane. Let somebody take you home. Come on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But are you threatening?
HONOWITZ: A lot of times when there is alcohol involved, and in this case, you know, the police officer might not have thought, "This is a kid from privilege. I`m going to let him go." She might have thought that "He`s just talking because he`s drunk, and he`s saying he`s going to kill me. And so, you know, let me just take care of it right now."
So I don`t think every non-arrest is because a person is someone of privilege.
HONOWITZ: But I think it`s something to look at. And certainly, if this girl, who was with him, this unfortunate victim in this case was with him and had an idea that there were some alcohol issues and some temper issues and maybe that was the reason why the relationship ended. And it`s a call for anybody to really, you know, try to understand the person that you`re with, because you just never know what can happen.
ARCHER: The point is that if someone is going to do that to a police officer, then that indicates that, for someone who is not in authority, that they can do what he did. So I think that`s a huge red flag.
HONOWITZ: It is a red flag, but she probably didn`t even know about it. Do you think he went to this girl and said, "By the way, I told off the police officer and threatened to kill him?"
ARCHER: No. But the police -- but the police let him off way too easy for that.
BROOKS: But Dale, you try to give him a break right from the beginning, and you know what? Then he turned on the cop, lock him up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I agree with you, Mike. Next, Bret Michaels out of the hospital. We`ll talk to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The amazing will to live, we`ll go inside Bret Michaels` road to recovery. The wildly popular `80s rocker suffered a brain hemorrhage that should have killed him. Tonight, fantastic news as Bret continues to fight for survival. We`ll talk live to his Poison band mate Rikki Rockett.
Plus we`ll go inside a parent`s worst nightmare. Amber Dubois was abducted while walking to school. One year later, this precious 14-year- old girl was found brutally raped and murdered. Now her killer is speaking out from behind bars.
Tonight I`ll talk one-on-one with Amber`s angry, devastated mother. Could it have been avoided?
Tonight, big but wonderful breaking news on rocker Bret Michaels` condition; doctors say it was Bret`s sheer will to live and the unbelievable fight in him that has kept that rocker alive. Tonight for the very first time, Bret`s neurosurgeon speaks to the media and he has an uplifting message. The Poison front man has just been released from the hospital.
The doctor wouldn`t say where Bret is, he`s likely been moved to a facility where he can be closely watched. Bret`s doctors say the 47- year-old star is not out of the woods yet, however. He is still -- believe this -- wavering between critical and stable conditions. Doctors are extremely concerned that Bret could still go down hill at any moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH ZABRAMSKI, BRET MICHAELS` MEDICAL TEAM LEADER: Mr. Michaels was indeed a lucky person, a very lucky person. He survived the hemorrhage. He got to the emergency room and he got here.
When I first saw him on the morning of his admission, he was still very lethargic, complaining of severe headache and neck pain. And I really don`t think he was fully aware of his surroundings in our discussion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Neurosurgeons have still not been able to identify the source of the bleeding. Tests show Bret did not have an aneurysm -- that`s great news. And the clot around his brain stem has begun to dissolve. You can actually see the blood pooling right here, the white circle in the center of Bret`s brain.
Wow. Doctors say Bret should be celebrating the fact that he`s alive and that he could make a full recovery.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: neurosurgeon Dr. John Boockvar; and we`re delighted to have as well, E! Online columnist Mark Malkin.
But I want to begin with Bret`s dear friend of more than 20 years, Poison drummer rocker, Rikki Rockett. Rikki, thank you so much for being here today. And just for full disclosure, you and I are also buddies. We have done many environmental festivals together and it`s great to see you.
Now, I understand you talked to Bret this morning. Tell us everything.
RIKKI ROCKETT, BRET MICHAELS` BAND MATE: Yes, I talked to him this morning and he had been released into a rehab facility where he could be observed pretty closely. He just told me, he said, "Look, I`m going nuts in there." He goes, "Every two seconds there`s a Code Blue." Or, you know it gets depressing when you`re in a critical care area and you see others around you that aren`t doing so well. It doesn`t exactly lift your spirits, you know.
So he was happy to get out of there and into a place where people are moving forward and getting better and that`s what he`s doing right now. So he`ll be there for probably the better part of the week in a rehab.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rikki, 12 days ago, he had a brain hemorrhage. He`s already being moved out of the hospital, the doctors say it`s his incredible will to live. I know he has two young daughters, I believe their ages 9 and 4. Tell us about what makes him tick and what that will to live is all about?
ROCKETT: Well I think that, you know, his two daughters definitely play a role. I`m a father of a 10-month-old boy and I know that I ride my motorcycle more carefully now and I take everything a little more seriously now, my health and all that stuff.
I think Bret`s the same way, and you know, our band, Bret, all of us, we come from a very hard working part of the East Coast and I think that our will to work hard at stuff also plays into our will to live, because we`re the kind of guys that we`re just not done yet.
We got more stuff to do, more tours to do, more records to do, and Bret certainly has a lot going on now. I think he may have been a little overworked and I`ve been a little concerned about that, trying to get him to slow down a little bit. Now he has to slow down. You know what I`m saying?
ROCKETT: Go ahead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring up this whole idea of work and I have got to bring Mark Malkin in on this, because he is still very much alive in "Celebrity Apprentice" and the live finale is May 23, he`s one of seven contests. Given the miracle that he`s out of the hospital in 12 days, could we see another miracle and see him appear on "Celebrity Apprentice" live, later this month?
MARK MALKIN, E! ONLINE: I would not be surprised. I mean, this is a guy who does have a strong will, like you said. He is out of the hospital. I would not be surprised if we see him on the "Apprentice". He wants to get back on the road and start doing concerts within weeks. So this guy, he wants to get back to work and he`s going to do everything he can to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. John Boockvar, I know you`re probably over there shaking your head because his own doctors warned him, "Don`t be crazy optimistic because that could be dangerous."
DR. JOHN BOOCKVAR, NEUROSURGEON, N.Y. PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: Well, I think you`re right. I think it`s important to recognize the amount of blood that he had in the brain and that`s an unnatural event. And so we want to make sure that that heals and he does all the right tests to make sure that doesn`t happen again. So I would make sure that he understands that his recovery is -- should be a one-time event and to emphasize that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, don`t be -- would you say go on "Celebrity Apprentice" May 23rd to debate in front of the Donald, yes or no.
BOOCKVAR: I don`t want to comment on that. I want to emphasize the fact that he needs to spend time recovering and this is a process that takes the time to heal and he should really focus on that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Bret`s been very open about his long struggle with diabetes. Listen to this from VH1`s "Rock of Love".
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Suffice it to say, he said that he had a near- death experience with his diabetes. He got really sick, they brought an ambulance in and he learned a lot.
So he`s had quite a few, Rikki, health problems. He`s had the diabetes, he`s had the hemorrhage, he had an emergency appendectomy. I mean he has really had a lot of problems health wise. Do you think he should go on "Celebrity Apprentice" later this month?
ROCKETT: Well, I don`t know, but he`s kind of like the Evel Knievel of rock `n roll, you know. You can break him but you`re not going to kill him. So you know, I don`t know if he should go on it or not, but I do know that the difference from when I flew in to see him a week ago and the way he sounded today was humongous.
So if he makes those strides in the next two weeks, then he can probably do it. Now I`m not a doctor and I`m not going to give him the go- ahead for that, so that`s up to people that know better about that kind of stuff.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. And we know the doctor doesn`t want to comment on whether or not he should be on "Celebrity Apprentice".
I`m going to throw it to you, Mark, do you think that that could be a mistake, in other words if he comes back too quickly, either touring or "Celebrity Apprentice"?
MALKIN: I`m not really a doctor, I can`t really say that, but, like I said, I would not be surprised if he does it. This is a guy who does not want to sit in a bed and, you know, just whittle around. He wants to get back to work. He wants to be on "Apprentice". He wants to be singing, he wants to be on stage. I can`t say if he should, if it will hurt him, but he wants to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I`ve got to ask this question of the doctor, apparently he is still suffering severe back pain because of chemical meningitis. Can you explain in layman`s terms why he would be suffering that as a result of a brain hemorrhage?
BOOCKVAR: Sure, What that means is he essentially has irritation of the lining of the brain caused by the blood product. That essentially is an inflammation, as if he hit his thumb with a hammer; his brain has been hit with a clot of blood. And that could take week force that clot of blood and that inflammation to go down. And that`s the irritation that he`s feeling and that`s called a chemical meningitis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When Bret suffered the brain hemorrhage, he was right in the middle of taping NBC`s "Celebrity Apprentice". Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE": None whatsoever, he was in great health, he`s really an amazingly competitive guy. I feel a little guilty because I have been pretty rough on Bret. I have been really going after him. Now I`m going to be so nice, I`m going to see him I hope and I`m going to say, "Bret, you`re doing great."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rikki, maybe that`s a reason why he shouldn`t go on the show because the Donald would have to keep him after everything he`s gone through.
I want to ask you about this, you guys are, you know, Poison, that`s the `80s glam group that has this image of being, you know, tough rockers. But I know you Rikki. I know, there`s nobody with a kinder heart and softer soul. You and I are both involved in vegan causes; we emcee these events to talk about being kind to animals. You are the antithesis of your image, is Bret the antithesis of his sort of glam rocker image?
ROCKETT: Well, I don`t know. Maybe that would be a half-truth. I don`t know.
You know what? You know, Bret has had to deal with diabetes all his life. So -- and he`s always had to sort of edit certain things and has done things that he probably shouldn`t have as a diabetic.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like what? Like what? Give us some dirt.
ROCKETT: Well, yes, I mean, you`re not supposed to drink at all when you`re a diabetic, and I know he`s done it in the past. And -- but I think as we get older, we start to realize that`s not such a good idea to push our luck quite so far.
Bret`s a healthy guy, I mean, besides this thing that he`s had, he`s a healthy guy. He keeps himself in good shape, especially for a diabetic, I mean, he really does. And you know I`m just hoping -- I want him to get better so Poison can do our 25th anniversary next year.
ROCKETT: And we`re both looking forward to that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so you guys are eventually going to be on the road. I hear Lynyrd Skynyrd possibly this summer?
ROCKETT: Well, I think Bret`s doing some dates with Lynyrd Skynyrd but Poison we`re going to do something probably headline next year.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, guess what we will cover it.
ROCKETT: All right good.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you and great to see you Rikki. I love you.
ROCKETT: Thank you. It`s always nice to see you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re rooting for Bret.
All right, Lindsay Lohan went face to face with a judge today, is she headed for jail?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: (AUDIO GAP) exclusive, murdered teen Amber Dubois`s mom, but first "Top of the Block" tonight.
Lindsay Lohan, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally makes it to her deposition. She might have been 22 minutes late, but that`s an improvement from the two previous times when she just blew the whole thing off.
Lindsay was reportedly grilled by lawyers for the people suing her for allegedly holding them hostage, while chasing someone in 2007 in an SUV.
A judge threatened a wild child and said that she was in danger of losing the case if she failed to show up again. TMZ says mom Dina made sure her troubled 23-year-old was there today, but that, of course, was after the mother-daughter duo partied until 2:00 a.m. this morning.
ISSUES has learned exclusively that Lindsay`s dad Michael and his attorney Lisa Bloom are working long hours behind the scenes to try and get Lindsay into rehab. And they are preparing to file legal actions on a number of fronts if she refuses to go on her own.
We are going deep into this story tomorrow on ISSUES we`ve got all sorts of behind the scenes information. You don`t want to miss it.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block".
Turning now to chilling and I mean chilling new developments in the murders of two teenage girls in California, Amber Dubois and Chelsea King. We are now getting a glimpse into the demented mind of their murderer John Gardner.
He agreed to a phone interview with HLN affiliate KFMD, listen -- listen to this unnerving clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN GARDNER, ACCUSED MURDERER: I was aware of what I was doing and I could not stop myself. I (had) pent up major rage and pissed off, pissed off at my whole life and everybody that`s hurt me, and blew up, and I hurt the wrong people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You sure did, you took it out on two precious young women; girls who didn`t even know you. Chelsea`s body was found in a shallow grave March 2nd five days after Gardner attacked her during a jog. Investigators found his semen on Chelsea`s clothing and arrested him.
Just days later, Gardner then led investigators to Amber Dubois`s remains. He abducted her in February of last year as she walked to school. Gardner claims, as you just heard, he just couldn`t stop himself.
Listen to more of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARDNER: I hate myself, I really do. There is no taking back what I did. And if I could, yes, I would. Are you kidding me?
But I was out of control. If I was able to stop myself in the middle of it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This call is being recorded.
GARDNER: -- I would have and I could not. I was out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is from jail, a conversation you heard that recording, "This conversation is being recorded." Now here hearing it as Amber`s mom copes with this unending nightmare.
She just wants one thing to meet one-on-one with her daughter`s killer. But she says the authorities won`t let her do that. Why on earth not?
These families have gone through hell. If they want to talk to the killer, they deserve to do.
HLN law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks is back with us, and I`m honored to welcome my very special guest, Carrie McGonigle, Amber`s mother and we`re so happy to have you here tonight.
CARRIE MCGONIGLE, AMBER DUBOIS` MOTHER: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Along with Carrie`s attorney, Robin Sax. First of all I just want to say to Mrs. McGonigle that our hearts go out to you, our condolences. There are no words, I`m sure that will in any way, shape or form comfort you, but we are so sad over what happened to your daughter.
It`s a travesty. It`s a travesty. You want to talk to John Gardner.
MCGONIGLE: I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you want to talk to him and what would you say to him if you got the chance?
MCGONIGLE: Well, I want to talk to him because I have questions, of course. I mean, it`s been 15 months since, you know, I last saw Amber and there`s a lot of unanswered questions, you know. Why Amber? How did you get her in your vehicle?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would that do to you, in terms of any kind of healing to get those answers straight from the person who committed this heinous crime?
MCGONIGLE: I`ve been trying to psych myself up for the meeting. I don`t know, I`m a pretty strong woman, so I think I can -- I`m hoping that I will be able to you know, sit through it and listen. I know I`m strong enough now to walk away if he starts getting into details that I don`t want to hear about. But I need answers to have closure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are police saying you can`t do that or law enforcement?
MCGONIGLE: I think it`s his attorneys that are saying no. I`m waiting for a phone call. I have tried to go to the right authorities and not -- the right channels, I have been trying to go through and I`m waiting for a call back from the watch commander from the jail right now to let me know if there`s anything they can do to get me in there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gardner pleaded guilty to both Amber and Chelsea`s murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In ten days, he is scheduled to be sentenced to life in prison, and he says he`s only going to discuss the grizzly details with the victim`s families. These are details that I think law enforcement should know if they hope to prevent some -- something like this from happening again. He says he`s only going to tell you and they won`t let you talk to him. That sounds like madness to me.
MCGONIGLE: It is, in my opinion. I mean they`ll let me talk to him right after sentencing but I don`t want to talk to him after sentencing. It completely changes my victims` statement. What am I going to say to him?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, you want to talk to him before you do your victim`s statement?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that makes perfect sense.
Don`t go anywhere, we`re going to come right back with more from Amber`s mom and her attorney right after the break.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GARDNER: You have to plead not guilty for some reason for everything before you can even plead guilty, I guess. I was telling them that I just wanted to plead guilty and I want everyone to know how bad that I felt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could have gotten the death penalty.
GARDNER: I didn`t care. I still don`t.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The voice of a killer, John Gardner, which brings me to my big issue tonight. Is this a case of reactive justice? Were cops constantly one step behind in this investigation?
Carrie, and I`m speaking now to the mother of murder victim, Amber Dubois, who joins us tonight. We are honored to have you.
You and your family have been critical of police. When Amber went missing, you say they suggested she might be a runaway and they wouldn`t issue an Amber alert. You say that search and rescue teams weren`t out looking for your daughter for three weeks after her disappearance.
And later you said you got some possible leads thanks to search dogs you hired privately. They went to an area that`s very close to where your daughter was ultimately found after John Gardner pointed the way there, but you say when the dogs you hired arrived at that scene, police wouldn`t follow up?
Now, I have to tell you, we contacted Escondido police to get their response. They told us they would not comment out of respect to the victims` families. But do you think, Carrie, your daughter`s body could have been found sooner?
MCGONIGLE: A good possibility. I didn`t make the comments you`re referring to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we -- this is a look at some of the things that you`ve said.
MCGONIGLE: Oh, yes, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Either on camera or off. I mean, on camera you had said to us on our show --
MCGONIGLE: Oh, yes. Escondido and I have gone back and forth over quite a few issues. There`s no denying that. Do I think the dogs could have found Amber? Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there any possibility that they might have found her alive? In other words, could this have been avoided?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. Ok. All right. I`m asking. You know?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Jane, you know what? I think maybe law enforcement in this particular case, maybe they could have done better.
But you know who I find at fault here, Jane? The cops locked up this guy. He should have been in jail to begin with. And at the very least, if they`re going to put him out on parole, let him have a GPS. Why not? And this is part -- that`s not the police fault. This is the criminal justice system after the cops locked him up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re absolutely right. John Gardner`s explosion of violence did not come out of the blue. He was in fact convicted of molesting his 13-year-old neighbor in 2000.
We`ve looked at the police report in that case. After ripping off most of the victim`s clothes Gardner quote, "threw the victim on to the couch, got on top of her, covered the victim`s mouth. She couldn`t breathe. He started hitting her all over the head; he hit her real hard in the face. She tried to fight him off. The girl thought she would die."
He served five years in prison, Robin Sax. Then when he got out he racked up seven parole violations. They did not revoke his parole. They let him go -- they released him from parole, they took off the GPS, Robin Sax.
BROOKS: There you go.
ROBIN SAX, ATTORNEY FOR CARRIE MCGONIGLE: This is atrocious. This is actually on this show we talked about it when you had the sheriff in the Jaycee Dugard case who called this a missed opportunity.
It`s the same situation that happened here. You have a systemic failure of the criminal justice system beginning with the plea, continuing on with the seven parole violations that not one of them brought him back into custody for any length of time. That is the greater issue.
SAX: He should have never been out to murder Chelsea King or Amber Dubois, forget about what happened thereafter.
BROOKS: Absolutely right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to leave it right there. Thank you so much, Carrie McGonigle. Our hearts go out to you.
And you`re watching ISSUES on HLN.