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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Should FBI Have Arrested Van Der Sloot Earlier?
Aired June 9, 2010 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, massive new twists and turns in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder investigation. He admitted killing Stephany Flores. But now his family members claim cops coerced Joran into making that confession. Does Joran have more tricks up his sleeve?
Plus, could there be more victims? New fears tonight: is Joran a psycho serial killer? Or is this just the rumor mill gone wild? From Peru to Aruba, to Alabama, ISSUES is all over this investigation, with live reports across the globe.
And Lindsay Lohan let off the hook again. Her alcohol monitoring bracelet was set off while partying at the MTV Movie Awards. She violated parole and defied the judge. So why in the heck isn`t she in jail?
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight: stunning, breaking news in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder case. Did Joran fly to Peru where he savagely murdered 21- year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez with 25 grand he got during an FBI-led extortion sting?
Joran allegedly tried to extort Natalee Holloway`s desperate mother Beth, demanding money in exchange for details on Natalee`s disappearance and the location of her body. The FBI then stepped in and launched an undercover sting. Joran was reportedly caught on tape accepting $10,000 in cash. And he was wired another $15,000. Tonight the FBI is stressing those were private funds.
In exchange, Joran fed them a big fat lie. He claimed he hid Natalee`s body in a house that wasn`t built when she vanished. He has been lying since day one. Remember this from NBC`s "Nightline." Who could forget?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Natalee Holloway?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, ACCUSED OF MURDER: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you harm Natalee Holloway?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you help someone else who harmed Natalee Holloway?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see Natalee Holloway in distress?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sure about all of those answers?
VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joran reportedly took the sting money, and four days later, he hopped on a plane to Peru, where he met Stephany Flores Ramirez, who he`s now confessed to killing. Why didn`t the FBI arrest Joran before he left Aruba?
Joran and Stephany Flores were seen entering his Lima, Peru hotel room together. Joran tells Peruvian police he went to get coffee. And he came back, found Stephany on his laptop, learning all about his connection to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. Joran allegedly says he became enraged and beat Stephany to death with a tennis racket, snapping her neck.
Tonight, Peruvian newspaper "La Republica" reports Joran told investigators he sipped his coffee, espresso, and ate biscuits and popped amphetamine pills while Stephany`s bludgeoned, half naked body lay sprawled on the hotel room floor. Monstrous.
Now reports that Joran is suddenly claiming his confession was coerced? Do you buy it? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Your theories, I want to hear them.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, and all of these people really, truly experts on this case from the very beginning. But first, Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session" on TruTV, live in Lima, Peru, outside the very hotel where Stephany was murdered.
Jean, what is the very latest tonight?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": we have just gotten an official notice that there is going to be a press conference tomorrow morning, Thursday morning, 9 a.m. sharp at the Peruvian national police criminal investigation headquarters. The official notice states that they are going to discuss the case, aspects of the case, and that they possibly may be then turning the information over to prosecutors.
Now, we just got a statement from the FBI and the U.S. attorney handling this case. Quote -- and we`re talking about the extortion -- "Prior to law enforcement`s involvement in the situation, Van Der Sloot offered to provide information to an individual regarding the location of Natalee Holloway`s remains and the circumstances of her death in exchange for $250,000. The U.S. Attorney filed a criminal complaint, charging Van Der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud on June 3, 2010. Some news accounts have suggested that the FBI provided $25,000 in funds that were transmitted to Van Der Sloot. This is incorrect. The funds involved were private funds. News accounts have also questioned why charges were not brought sooner. Our heartfelt sympathies to the Flores family. The Birmingham investigation was not related in any way to the murder in Peru," end quote.
CNN correspondent Ines Ferre, you`re covering this angle. Put it in perspective. What are we talking about here? Lay it out.
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, what happened was, so we obtained this document from Interpol, right, and this document says that -- that Van Der Sloot had asked a representative from Natalee Holloway`s mother to meet with him so that -- because he wanted $250,000 in exchange for the information as to where Natalee Holloway`s body was and how she died.
So what happened was that the meeting took place in Aruba, and in Aruba he was given $10,000 and then wired $15,000. And what he said was that Natalee Holloway`s body was at a house where, when they went to check it out, it turns out that that house hadn`t even been built when Holloway disappeared.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he`s a big fat liar.
FERRE: Exactly. So now what we have are, you know, a lot of people who are saying, "Look, well, why didn`t the FBI arrest him when they gave him -- when he was given this money?" And now the FBI is saying that the case was just not sufficient -- that they didn`t have enough to arrest him at the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to debate it now. And I`m going to start with Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. We`re going to debate the FBI`s actions. Should they have handled this differently?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: There is -- there is no debate.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes there is.
BROOKS: OK, Jane. Let me ask you, how many extortion cases or kidnapping cases have you worked?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I have not worked...
BROOKS: OK. That -- all right. Let me just tell you...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- but...
BROOKS: Let me tell you how it works. It doesn`t happen -- it doesn`t...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I haven`t killed anybody either. I haven`t -- thank God I haven`t killed anybody either. Not yet.
BROOKS: Well, let me just tell you. It doesn`t happen in an hour like on TV. OK? It takes evidence. It takes a lot of time to make a case like this.
And we`re talking about three different countries here, Jane. We`re talking about the United States. We`re talking about Aruba. And we`re talking about a financial institute in the Netherlands. Now, the United States, they`re not the world police. They just can`t go from one country, follow people around, and lock them up. You have to work with the different countries.
So they -- they started this extortion. They were trying to build their case, and he left. OK. Was that any big deal? No. Were they -- were the people thinking he was going to go somewhere and kill somebody? Absolutely not. Cases like this...
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Wait, wait -- OK. Look I want to give -- I`m going to give you my take, and then I`m going to go to Mark Eiglarsh, OK? I respect you tremendously, Mike Brooks, and you`re right. I have not handled any extortion cases.
The FBI and the U.S. attorney`s office insist the extortion case and Stephany`s murder are totally unrelated. So let`s hear what they have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOYCE WHITE VANCE, U.S. ATTORNEY: I want to stress at the outset that our case is not related in way to the ongoing murder investigation in Peru.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But here is my take. The FBI certainly cannot be blamed for this vicious murder, but I do believe they dropped the ball. Here`s why.
Reports claim the FBI got Joran on videotape taking $10,000 in cash and counting the money twice. So why didn`t they arrest him for extortion at that moment?
Reports are the Aruban authorities warned the feds that Joran was about to leave Aruba. The FBI says their case was not sufficiently developed enough to make an arrest. Yet, here`s the clincher. As soon as the world learned that Joran was suspected of murdering a woman in Peru, suddenly the feds did have enough of a case to file charges. Coincidence, Mark Eiglarsh?
EIGLARSH: Jane, I thoroughly disagree with you more than I think I ever have and agree with Mike Brooks. This is a wonderful day.
EIGLARSH: Let me say this. I think you are entitled to your opinion even though you`ve never handled these types of cases. But there`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When`s the last time you handled an extortion case?
EIGLARSH: I`ve defended. I`ve defended. But it doesn`t matter. You`re -- we`re all entitled to our opinion.
But here`s the bigger point. They weren`t just looking to build an extortion case; they had their eye on the bigger prize. They wanted to give Holloway`s family the chance to know where that daughter was. They had every reason to believe that they would extract that information from this defendant. They had no reason to believe. It was not reasonably foreseeable, No. 1, that he would flee, and No. 2 worse, that he would go to Peru and kill someone. So those are Monday-morning quarterbacking like yourself, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear you. I`m going to bring in...
EIGLARSH: You need to be very careful about making those accusations.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not making accusations. I`m giving my opinion. Listen, I would never qualify to be even a police officer. I took a trainee course for the day, and I shot everyone on film. They said to me, "You`ll never be a police officer. Don`t even think about it." All right? I know how hard it is.
Dr. Alan Lipman, psychiatrist.
DR. ALAN LIPMAN, PSYCHIATRIST: Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Weigh in on this. Because to me, I think the idea of trying to get the truth out of this guy is delusional, that they probably should`ve known that he`s never going to tell them the real story.
LIPMAN: Well, look, there`s no question that this is a guy who is the hallmark psychopath. You just go down the list: violent, impulsive, grandiose, inability to take responsibility for his actions. This is someone who is inherently deceitful.
That being the case, predicting dangerousness and certainly predicting that he would go to Peru, take this money and commit this act, is reasonably beyond even the best of our law enforcement forces. So I have to say that, with regard to that prediction, I`m with Mike on this, that that was not reasonably foreseeable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me ask you this question.
LIPMAN: But is he a violent psychopath? Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask you this question, Mike Brooks. Do you feel that this situation kind of would infuriate Beth because it kind of weakens her position. I mean, all along she`s been saying, "Aruba, you should have done this. You should have arrested him. You should have taken action."
Now when she does that, they could turn around and say, "Well, you know, the U.S. authorities had the opportunity to arrest him and didn`t."
BROOKS: Not at all, Jane. Because the United States was working with the Aruban authorities. Here`s the way they wanted things to play out. Here`s what they wanted at the end of this case to lock him up. They wanted to go ahead and maybe deliver the $250,000. No information came. Then they would go and they would lock him up and bring him back to the United States and get him on American soil and deal with him here. Because that`s -- the originating office of the FBI was the Birmingham office, and the United States attorney`s office in Birmingham, Alabama, USA.
LIPMAN: Mike, Mike -- but I`ve got a question for you.
LIPMAN: And it comes off of Jane`s question. I understand what you`re saying and, essentially, I`m in your camp on this narrow question.
LIPMAN: He is a violent psychopath, though, and we have seen throughout the history of this case with regard to Holloway, with regard to the previous victim, with regard to many intervening events, this is someone who has shown the classic pattern of lie after lie after lie. Why would they base this case so much on his ability and this one instance to tell the truth?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Answer it, and then we`ve got to go to break.
EIGLARSH: The FBI and other government agencies deal with people like this. They`re called snitches. That type of person...
BROOKS: No, no, no.
EIGLARSH: ... is who they build cases about.
LIPMAN: No, there is a difference between that snitch -- a jailhouse snitch and a psychopath. A snitch is someone who is opportunistic and willing to tell the truth some of the time.
EIGLARSH: Of course there`s a difference.
LIPMAN: A psychopath...
EIGLARSH: The similarities that you`re dealing with someone...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to bring out the gavel. Guys, hang in there.
On the other side of the break, we`ll continue this fascinating debate. And I do say I could never do any of these jobs that law enforcement do. And I have the utmost respect for them.
Everyone stay right where you are. What is behind the death of Stephany Flores? Did Joran snap when she found out about his extortion plot? We`re taking your calls on this. They`re stacking up right on the other side of the break: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Plus, Lindsay Lohan has some suspicious trouble with her alcohol- monitoring bracelet. Was she drinking after the MTV Movie Awards?
But first, Joran Van Der Sloot`s extortion plot. We will dig deep into what happened in Peru.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY FAMILY MEMBER (via phone): My heart and prayers go out to Stephany`s family. We certainly know what they`re going through and what they will be going through. We`re just very disappointed that he`s been able to -- it appears, you know, do this again. You know, take the life of another young girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ENRIQUE FLORES, STEPHANY`S BROTHER: One of the things that we agree as a family was that we wanted -- we want this person not to hurt another family. We want this action not to happen again.
RICARDO FLORES, STEPHANY`S FATHER (through translator): My daughter is not a prostitute. My daughter was born in a decent home and lived a good life. Perhaps my mistake is that I only taught her about goodness in the world. But I never taught her about the other side, evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The heartbroken family of 21-year-old Stephany Flores speaking out. Van Der Sloot has reportedly confessed to the savage, brutal murder of the university student in Peru, although now we`re hearing word tonight that he may be claiming it was a coerced confession.
Julie, Massachusetts, your question or thought.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
CALLER: Not surprising that he`s saying that his confession was coerced. Does anybody know if his interrogation was videotaped?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Jane, can you repeat that question?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead with your new information.
CASAREZ: I can confirm that authorities have told us that normally a confession is videotaped. It is very routine. So we have been led to believe that, yes, it was videotaped.
Jane, let me tell you what we`re finding out right now. We`re hearing that Peruvian authorities are confirming with us that Joran`s private attorney is Pavin Pablo Altez Perez (ph), local Lima attorney, and he met last night at 10 p.m. with Joran at the jail at Dimintri (ph), which is the Peru -- Peruvian national police headquarters, criminal investigation area, where he is in the presence of a translator.
This is the first confirmation we have had that Joran has met with this private attorney last night, apparently, 10 p.m., sounds like the very first time. So this is what`s been happening behind the scenes with the presence of a translator.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean, is his mother -- did Joran`s mother arrive?
CASAREZ: We have not been told that his mother arrived. We heard that and confirmed that he called her on Saturday, he wanted her to come. We were initially told by Peruvian officials that she was on her way. They later reneged that and said that they could not give us information if she was coming or even had arrived.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stephanie Good, author, "Aruba: The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise." What do you make now of reports that he`s saying it was a coerced confession and that he was interrogated in a very rude fashion?
STEPHANIE GOOD, AUTHOR, "ARUBA": I`m not surprised at all. I just wonder how many more stories he`s going to tell and how many more confessions he`s going to make. I think this case is going to have to rely completely on the evidence and not on one word that this pathological liar says. He`s known for telling lie after lie. He told, what, about 20 to 22 lies in Natalee`s case?
So you know, I just think that this new -- this new claim of coercion is just another ruse that he`s using, thinking he can get out of what he said and what he admitted.
LIPMAN: This is, I think, just a key to follow up on what you were talking about before. This is someone who habitually lies. And if we actually look at the transcript of the confession, we don`t know if it is videotaped or not yet. It is such a classic example of his style of lying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. More on the other side.
LIPMAN: He blames the murder on her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, of course he does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINA JORGE, VICTIM`S SISTER-IN-LAW: We need justice for our family, for Natalee`s family, too. I think he`s psycho, a murderer. And he has to pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Outrage in Peru. Media and heartbroken family members dubbing Joran Van Der Sloot a psycho and a serial killer after he reportedly confesses to the brutal murder.
Joran told cops he didn`t want to kill his victim, Stephany Flores, but she enraged him by looking up information about the Natalee Holloway case on his computer. Did Stephany find out about his extortion plot against the Holloways?
Kate in Missouri, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I`ve been following this case from the beginning as well as Natalee Holloway`s. And I have a theory.
CALLER: That when he was in the room drinking coffee and eating cake, supposedly, that that isn`t all he was doing. I think he was on his computer. I think he was looking up some legal questions from Peru. Because he knew exactly, line for line, what to do: to cry, cry very hard, to act very remorseful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re making great points. T.J. Ward, you`re the private investigator who`s searched in Aruba for Natalee Holloway`s body. Do you think he did that?
T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, he may be doing that. But on fact now, he`s lawyered up. And now an issue that come up in the news that he was on -- under the influence of marijuana.
CALLER: But now -- he could also have looked that up. That`s also a reason...
WARD: He was under the influence of marijuana. The same thing he did when he got caught up with -- up in Holland when the vehicle was all wired up. His -- his claim why he wasn`t telling the truth is because he was under the influence.
And he`s going to start telling lies now, because he`s got a lawyer, and he`s going to try to find every way he can to change -- change what`s going on. He`s already been presented with evidence, concrete evidence that they`ve got something against him. And that`s why he has confessed. He knows he`s going to get a little more relaxed now because of what`s going on with his lawyer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tim Miller, you`ve been very patient. You are in Aruba searching for Natalee Holloway`s body. What is going on in Aruba in terms of that search?
TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: You know, everything`s real tight in Aruba right now. And you know, speaking about that construction site, believe it or not, Jane, when we were in Aruba on the first time, when we was doing a search, that construction site was brought up. There was just a concrete slab there in a driveway with a house wasn`t built on it yet. And it was close to the tennis courts and also where Joran Van Der Sloot was supposedly seen by a gardener.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me -- let me jump in. You`re talking about the phony story that he gave the representatives for the Holloways during this whole extortion sting after he was paid or at some point during the point where he was paid 25 grand. He tells them, "Yes, I buried Natalee in this construction site." That`s what you`re talking about, right?
MILLER: That`s what I`m talking about. And you know what? Apparently, Joran`s running out of lies. Because one of the first stories that came in. So he`s going back to old stories.
And we actually had a ground penetration unit down here at that time. The slab was a fresh slab. And we went over that. It was a ground penetration unit. So -- and Jane, the other amazing thing is like on the - - on the copy of the map that we have, Joran had to be very desperate here at the end for some reason or another. Because the information we`re getting is that the guy...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Massive new twists and turns in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder investigation. From Peru to Aruba, to Alabama, ISSUES is all over this investigation with live reports from across the globe.
Plus, Lindsay Lohan let off the hook again. Her alcohol monitoring bracelet was set off while she was partying at the MTV Movie Awards. She violated parole and defied the judge. So why in the heck isn`t she in jail?
We`re following explosive new details in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder investigation. A Peruvian newspaper reports that Joran kicked back with espresso and pastries and popped some amphetamine pills while in the same hotel room with Stephany Flores` bloody, lifeless body.
In another shocking revelation, Joran may have used private money -- handed to him as part of an FBI sting to get to Peru where this murder took place. The feds gave him $25,000 of private funds as part of a sting operation in the Natalee Holloway case.
That investigation was renewed about six weeks ago when Joran allegedly tried to extort $250,000 from Natalee`s mom. Investigators say Joran was attempting to sell phony details about Natalee`s death and the location of her body.
We have live reports from both Aruba and Peru. And we`re going to go straight out to Peru and Jean Casarez who is outside the hotel where Stephany Flores was murdered.
What about these new reports coming in that Joran is claiming his confession was coerced?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, we haven`t heard that here -- officially, at least with Peruvian police authorities. Of course it`s on all the local stations. That was really the focus last night of the local news and the national network here in Peru. Whether it was true, whether it wasn`t, it`s a question of fact that is probably at the heart of this criminal investigation.
Remember, John Mark Carr confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey and it turned out to not be the truth. Although there you didn`t have the surveillance evidence that you had here. So a confession is most likely a confession.
But police want to find the truth and all the nuances to see if this could be what we call in the United States an aggravated murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ines Ferre, you`re the CNN Espanol correspondent, what is the reaction in Latin America, since this is all going down in Peru but also involves America, it involves Aruba, it involves the Netherlands.
INEZ FERRE, CORRESPONDENT, CNN ESPANOL: Yes, and you know people can`t believe it. I mean you see the newspapers and it`s just -- and it`s just horrible what they`re -- these accounts that they`re describing.
But the other thing is also we were talking about this extortion case. And Enrique Flores, which is Stephany Flores`s brother, said that the family -- they don`t even want to know what could`ve happened or what would`ve happened had they known this information about the extortion that went on. They at this time -- they don`t even want to think about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is growing hysteria about where Joran has been traveling and if he could have other victims. Equusearch director Tim Miller dropped a huge bombshell on yesterday`s ISSUES.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: The authorities from Colombia are on their way now to Peru also to interrogate Joran Van Der Sloot on two girls that have disappeared in Colombia when he left Aruba. He was in Colombia two days, then went to Peru.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now the Peruvian press is dubbing Joran a serial killer, and Stephany`s father -- that`s the victim`s father -- says he believes Joran has killed many other victims.
But Interpol tells us while there are actually two girls missing in the nation of Colombia, Joran only had a layover there and did not even leave the airport. So we could scratch Joran off the suspect list as far as the Colombia disappearances.
Mike Brooks, what should law enforcement be doing right now to see if he is a serial killer who has killed across the globe?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, that`s just it. You`re going to have to follow the trail of his passport, Jane. And I`m sure that`s exactly what they`re doing right now because the Interpol is more of an information agency.
When he disappeared initially, they put out what they call a red notice. And that basically allows countries who are -- 188 members of Interpol allows them to hold someone for possible extradition back to the originating country of where the arrest warrant`s from. I`m sure they`re taking a look at exactly at all the different stamps in his passport, going back to those countries and seeing how long he was in that country. Because most countries you do have to get some sort of visa to visit there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Baker in New York, your question or thought.
BAKER, NEW YORK: Yes, hi. There`s no tape of Joran going to get coffee and coming back. And if there`s no tape, that means he was in the room with Flores much longer than they`re saying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. That`s an excellent question. Got to take it back to Jean Casarez; the lady says, is there any tape of him going to get coffee? He claims that everything was fine and dandy with these two in the hotel room. He goes and gets coffee, comes back, and she`s on the computer checking out his connection to Natalee Holloway and he explodes. Is there a tape of him going to get coffee?
CASAREZ: Jane, we`ve been here for two days now. So guess where I go to get coffee? I go over to that market. This morning, I was getting some coffee and I asked the girls if they had videotape, a video camera in the store. They told me they did not.
Now, that doesn`t mean that the outside where the gasoline pumps are doesn`t have cameras, but they did confirm with me no videotape recorder inside that little convenience store market.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but I mean, come on, he could`ve come in and out of the hotel room with those coffee cups. And additionally, he`s a distinctive looking guy, 6`3, some of those people might have remembered him at that coffee shop.
Wow. If Joran --
CASAREZ: But that`s a good point, Jane. Jane, you`ve got a very good point because the surveillance cameras captured him in the foyer of the hotel walking in and out -- so coming in with coffee cups, they would capture that too. But in that official report we got, the investigative report it says a coffee cup, singular, with grind residue was found in the room. It doesn`t say cups.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Alan Lipman, psychiatrist. You know, not much has been made of the drug angle in this case. But I think it`s very significant. He says he was high on pot when he killed Stephany and then he later popped amphetamines, i.e. speed pills as he pondered what to do with her body.
Do you think he could be a drug addict? And if he is on drugs, could that exacerbate his sociopathic tendencies?
DR. ALAN LIPMAN, PSYCHIATRIST: That`s an excellent question. And you know, there`s a famous term that comes up with guys like Van Der Sloot which is dual diagnosis. People who are psychopath who are violent, opportunistic, who kill women like this; they also use drugs but the drugs do not cause and they don`t mitigate. They use it so that they can feel more stimulation, more intensity, even more of the kind of violent hit that they want to feel.
The other point that`s important to address, is this guy a serial killer? And while we don`t have the evidence yet, he doesn`t match that portrait of the Ted Bundy, the cold, obsessive, planning looking to kill. He matches the portrait, and the drugs go with this, of the psychopath who wants some kind of hit. Be it from drugs, be it from rape, be it from theft and coercion like we`ve seen with Natalee Holloway`s mother and be it with violence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well get this, doctor. If he wants an intense experience, he`s in for one.
LIPMAN: He`s got it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joran will be assigned to a Peruvian prison as his trial progresses. He could end up at the Miguel Castro-Castro Prison, the infamous prison outside Lima.
The Peruvian newspaper "Coreo" has reported in the past a number of inmates at this prison have been killed by fellow convicts. You`re looking at it there. It`s an overview. That doesn`t look like a five-star hotel. That looks like a very, very rough place.
And I want to ask T.J. Ward, you`re a private investigator, you`ve been around these kinds of issues. How tough is it going to be for him to be an American accused of murdering a Peruvian woman in a place like that?
T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: It`s going to be tough for him in a prison especially with her father`s reputation in Peru. And I`m sure there`s people in prison that liked her father when he was a presidential candidate there. It`s going to be tough. And if not, they`ll put him in solitary confinement.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, you know, obviously he sort of feels like he`s an American, but he`s not an American, he`s Dutch.
Tim Miller, you were telling us about the search in Aruba and something about a map. Get that important information out now.
MILLER: Well, you know, it`s a map that Joran Van Der Sloot actually drew to it and was with a so-called friend of his in the Netherlands. And that guy`s name was Jab. And Jab`s house was actually raided. Joran called Jab on the Monday after he`d left Peru.
We don`t think there`s a lot to this map as far as where Natalee`s body`s at, but we had to check that out which we haven`t searched that yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you have the map?
MILLER: We do have that map. That map is now part of the investigation. We feel as though he was using Jab at the same time in the Netherlands because Jab had video and audio of Joran and this map we feel as though Jab gave Joran money also.
Jab wanted to find out where Natalee`s body was. And that`s what I was saying, at the end, it looked like Joran was so desperate with money, he`s working with somebody in the Netherlands, he`s working with the Holloways.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s scamming everybody. He is scamming everybody this guy. Unbelievable.
MILLER: (INAUDIBLE) and every story`s a lie.
STEPHANIE GOODE, AUTHOR, "ARUBA, THE TRAGIC UNTOLD STORY": Jane, I have to say this, though. I can`t help but wonder what was going through his head that he thought that he could get away with extorting money from the Holloways and walk away with all of that money. He`s such a high- profile guy.
LIPMAN: The key is that these guys don`t think about the next step. They don`t learn from experience. Like I said last night, a psychopath, but a bad psychopath. That`s why he is --
MILLER: You know, this is the first time --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, guess what? He`s going to the school for psychopaths now.
LIPMAN: That is exactly right for him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he`s going to learn the hard way.
LIPMAN: He has learned the hard way that he has made mistakes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, everybody double gavel stay right where you are.
Misty Croslin is in court and she`s got a kind of scary new look. Is jail getting the better of her?
And Lindsay Lohan violated her parole. So why isn`t she in jail? We`re taking your calls on this.
And we`ll still have more on Joran Van Der Sloot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I was stuck in Cannes. I had my passport stolen. So I had no option but to stay there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay Lohan violated her parole. So why isn`t her butt in jail right now? That`s next.
But first, Top of the Block" tonight.
Is jail getting the best of Misty Croslin? It sure looks like it, take a look at Misty with this unflattering makeover. She looks pale, she didn`t say a word and she was basically lifeless and not to mention it looks like she`s put on a few extra pounds there. She really looks quite different.
Well, she better get comfortable in that jail cell. She`s accused of drug trafficking and faces a minimum of 25 years in the slammer plus she was the last person to see little Haleigh Cummings alive. Misty`s court date for all eight drug charges has now been set for August 23rd.
We will keep you posted with any breaking news on that case.
Take a look at her, wow. That`s amazing how she has changed behind bars.
Turning now to Lindsay Lohan`s legal and lifestyle mess, the young lady who has not been behind bars. The troubled actress has paid her way out of jail once again. Her attorney confirms that Lindsay`s alcohol detection bracelet seen here went off. I mean, bing, bing, bing -- authorities were alerted to what her lawyer insisted was a small amount of alcohol in her system. Her probation terms say no booze.
So the judge issued a bench warrant for Lindsay`s arrest. That means cops arrested Lindsay, right? Of course not, that would be far too logical for this crazy dramarama. The judge, instead, simply set a higher bond. So Lindsay paid that once again and avoided the slammer.
Did I miss something here you violate probation, you go to jail, right? Forget about it, Jake. It`s Hollywood. Lindsay denies that she used alcohol at a party after Sunday`s MTV Movie Awards calling that, "false accusations by tabloids and paparazzi". She tweeted, "My scram wasn`t set off, it`s physically impossible considering I`ve done nothing for it to go off."
Lindsay told RadarOnline that she`s quote, "working to get proof that I did not tamper with the bracelet or drink." That`s not really how she sounds. The scram bracelet and random drug tests are part of Lindsay`s tough new probation in an earlier DIU case. Of course Lindsay doesn`t see why she deserves these rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOHAN: I don`t see why I would even have to do that considering I`ve been in compliance with everything that -- everything that occurs when you`re in a court system for two DUIs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a piece of work this one is.
Now to my fantastic panel: attorney Mark Eiglarsh is back; Howard Samuels, founder and CEO The Hills Treatment Center in LA. Too bad she can`t go there -- maybe she did go there once.
But I want to start with Carlos Diaz, entertainment reporter and syndicated radio host. Carlos, what is going on with this girl?
CARLOS DIAZ, ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: First off, Jane, you`re on fire on this one. I love you on this one. And secondly, ok, I mean, seriously, she was told to be in court last month and she lost her passport or it got stolen or whatever. And the judge was like, well, ok, we`ll wait until Monday.
And then, the judge said ok, no drinking. If you drink, you`re going to jail. No drinking. Well, then the scram bracelet goes off. Her own lawyer says there was alcohol involved, a small amount of alcohol, and the judge says, $20,000.
Basically, I know the drinks are expensive in L.A., but she`s paying $20,000 a drink now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s -- you know what? It would be funny except it`s sad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay`s scram bracelet went off Sunday night, sometime after she attended this award show. Now, here she is in the Red Carpet. It`s June in L.A., she`s wearing pants to cover up her bracelet of shame, ok.
Then she tweeted later, "My scram wasn`t set off. It`s from the light up bracelet Johnny put on me." Well, whatever there you go.
Ok, come on, Dr. Howard Samuels, she`s saying her friend gave her a light-up bracelet and that`s why her scram went off?
DR. HOWARD SAMUELS, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Jane, if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, ok. I mean, you know, unfortunately we`re all watching a crisis of an individual who is in the process of hitting the bottom. And, you know, everybody loves a train wreck.
And that is really what`s happening here. We`re watching the insanity, we`re watching the drama. And I`m just hoping that this person doesn`t eventually kill herself with these kinds of episodes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it is scary and it`s sad.
And I want to go to my big issue. Basically is Lindsay too rich for jail? Can she simply keep on breaking the law, violating her probation, and paying her way out of the slammer? Is that what America`s justice system has fallen to?
Last month, Lindsay missed a mandatory hearing claiming somebody stole her passport while she was at the Cannes Film Festival in France. The judge issued a bench warrant. Her bail was paid, she didn`t go to jail. Before that, Lindsay allegedly skipped court-ordered alcohol education classes, another probation violation.
It didn`t land her in jail. Lindsay was arrested twice for DUI, and she had this whole drama where she allegedly commandeered a car and took people on a high speed chase, speeding after her assistant`s mom while in the possession of cocaine.
Four people are suing her. She has spent a whopping 84 minutes in jail.
Mark Eiglarsh, there is something wrong with our criminal justice system.
MARK EIGLARSH, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t think there is, Jane. First of all, I don`t know what it is about tonight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course we don`t --
EIGLARSH: I`m disagreeing with you.
First of all, she may still go to jail. The judge has not had a probation violation hearing yet. The conditions of her release have been set at first $100,000, $200,000 -- then she`s going to answer to the court and she could send her to jail. We`re not done with this yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? There`s a great Web site, Mothers against Mandatory Minimums, where they have people who have been sentenced to life in prison because they found a little crack under their bed. Life.
And this arrogant, entitled woman is breaking all the rules. And I do believe -- sorry, Mark, I`m disagreeing with you -- there is something very, very wrong with our criminal justice system. It`s not blind. You can buy your way out of jail. I think we all know it by now.
EIGLARSH: She`s not done yet, she`s not done, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Well, I pray that you`re right and she goes to the slammer.
Back to Joran in a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNGER: Once he killed like that, he`d have to almost kill again.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST, "THE JOY BEHAR SHOW": Why?
CHAPMAN: He`s very arrogant. Why? He`s -- that`s like in his DNA. He`s just -- you know, you become that; you become this evil beast like that that thirsts for murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Murder, lies, extortion; we`re following the very disturbing new twists and turns in the Joran Van Der Sloot death investigation. His mom now claims he was coerced into that confession that he gave, that he murdered Stephany Flores inside his Peruvian hotel room.
Straight out to Stephanie Goode, the author of "Aruba, the tragic untold story" -- I think we`re all wondering, what can we learn about the Natalee Holloway case from observing and hearing what he is saying now about this murder?
GOODE: Well, you know, they`re two completely different cases. First of all, he was 17 at the time and if he did kill Natalee, he committed what looks like the perfect crime. But he really had a lot of help with that one. Whatever he did to her, he had a lot of help. He had the authorities, he had his friends, he had his father.
This time he just went haywire. I don`t know what we can learn about Natalee from what he`s done this time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there are commonalities -- and whoever wants to take this.
GOODE: Yes, casino.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think there`s a lot of commonalities here. You have 2 famous casinos.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were both originally with friends. He separated them from the friends. And on top of that, Jean Casarez, we`re hearing that when he was arrested in Stephany Flores` murder, he had maps that were currents of the ocean, ok?
So there`s a question as to whether or not he was possibly going to take this body about 30 minutes` drive from Lima to the ocean and toss her in the water. Who does that remind you of?
CASAREZ: Right. Actually, several people it reminds me of. But you`re right. He was traveling in the direction on that highway. And this was just last Friday. That was toward the water, away from the capital of Chile, Santiago. So he was going in the opposite direction. He was not also going in the direction of Argentina. And beyond that is a territory of the Netherlands. He was not going that way either.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joni in New York, your question or thought.
JONI, NEW YORK (via telephone): I have a statement and a question.
JONI: First, I don`t think -- and I don`t believe it has anything to do with the FBI being at fault for anything. Other countries listen to that and our country`s being blamed for different things. And our FBI didn`t do nothing wrong.
The blame lies with Aruba. They`re the ones that let us all down and let Natalee down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Mike Brooks is right in your corner. Mike?
BROOKES: You know, initially I was one of the ones who was saying in the very beginning of this case that I thought maybe the Aruban authorities had dropped the ball, but we do know the FBI was working with the Aruban authorities on this extortion case.
But I have to agree with the caller. As you know, I don`t feel like the FBI dropped the ball on this either.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you a question about how this works, and maybe you can tell me, mark, because I know you`re the expert in extortion. If they had decided to arrest him in Aruba, what would the process be where they would work with the Aruban authorities? Would they simply, the FBI call the Aruban authorities and say hold him. Go get him right now, then try to extradite him back to the United States.
EIGLARSH: My understanding is they first have to ask. They have no authority to take him from there and bring him back. They have to ask the authorities.
But let me explain something to you. Had they gotten ultimate prize to find out where Natalee Holloway is, nobody would be yelling and screaming. Everyone would say, way to work that case to get to really what we want, justice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And of course, we can all agree on that.
You`re watching ISSUES.